View Full Version : Question for Gold Bugs
Crow Hunter
08-08-14, 12:58
I have wanted some gold and silver coins since first playing D&D back in grade school. I finally have some extra cash available and I am going to get a Silver Eagle and a 1/2oz Gold Eagle. Actually my wife wants to get it for me for my birthday and if I really like them and I am a really good boy she said that she might buy me more for my next birthday.:cool:
Where do you guys go to buy your gold/silver from? I know nothing about buying bullion.
Here's a couple of places I used. Bought silver bars from both and had no issues. You can get coins, bars and rounds.
www.jmbullion.com
www.bgasc.com
montanadave
08-08-14, 13:05
I've bought some gold coins from a local coin shop. The guy's been in business for a lot of years and his prices are damn close to market. You can check current prices at a number of online dealers (e.g. http://www.monex.com/prods/gold_eagle.html or http://www.jmbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/american-gold-eagles/uncirculated-age/). Seems like the online dealers make their profits on float (pay today, we'll deliver the goods within x days) so they might undercut a local dealer by a few bucks but I prefer walking in with my money and walking out with my coins.
I've bought some gold coins from a local coin shop. The guy's been in business for a lot of years and his prices are damn close to market. You can check current prices at a number of online dealers (e.g. http://www.monex.com/prods/gold_eagle.html or http://www.jmbullion.com/gold/gold-coins/american-gold-eagles/uncirculated-age/). Seems like the online dealers make their profits on float (pay today, we'll deliver the goods within x days) so they might undercut a local dealer by a few bucks but I prefer walking in with my fiat and walking out with my money.
Fixed:D
montanadave
08-08-14, 13:38
Fixed:D
Well, realistically, if it all goes to hell in a hand basket, the only thing that's gonna be worth a shit is bullets and beans. But that's a subject for another thread.
Best prices and fastest service: http://www.apmex.com/
You will pay less of a premium (over spot) on older coins such as the English Sovereign ( http://www.apmex.com/category/16770/british-royal-mint-sovereign-coins ) or the Franc than you would let's say an American Gold Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf.
Stay away from Monex or any of those you see advertise on TV.
The best prices I've had is with these 2 dealers: TexasPrecious is the fast of the 2, but both ship very quickly (2 to 5 days).
https://www.texmetals.com
http://www.providentmetals.com
I have used apmex.com. It was straight forward and as advertised.
Crow Hunter
08-08-14, 14:31
Best prices and fastest service: http://www.apmex.com/
You will pay less of a premium (over spot) on older coins such as the English Sovereign ( http://www.apmex.com/category/16770/british-royal-mint-sovereign-coins ) or the Franc than you would let's say an American Gold Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf.
Stay away from Monex or any of those you see advertise on TV.
I was actually picking the Eagles because I know they are made out of coin gold versus pure. I want to be able to fondle and play with them as much as I can.:o
I will have to research the one's you have mentioned and see if they are as well.
I was actually picking the Eagles because I know they are made out of coin gold versus pure. I want to be able to fondle and play with them as much as I can.:o
I will have to research the one's you have mentioned and see if they are as well.
Occasionally I enjoy holding mine too, which is why my last couple purchases were these. Dates range back to 1900 (my oldest 1902) I believe and the imperfections are very minor, yet the premium is less than if you just bought even simple ingots.
http://mobile.apmex.com/product/32376/Great-Britain-Gold-Sovereigns-(Scruffy-Cleaned-or-Damaged)
I've had good experiences with apmex.com also. Fast shipping, usually only a couple of days from the time I buy.
Where are you located?
State laws vary. Here in Missouri we dont pay sales tax on gold or silver coin purchases and there are a few really good dealers that beat the hell out of places like Apmex(which is probably one of, if not THE best online dealer). In Texas(unless something has changed since I researched for a buddy 2 years ago) you pay sales tax on any purchase under $1000. Your state law may vary on this so something to look at. I can buy locally, with no sales tax, for cheaper than any online place and I get what I want that day, no waiting.
www.the-moneychanger.com is a great online website and the guy does a nightly email that is simply AWESOME talking about the overall markets(he is admittedly NOT a stock/bond kind of guy), world currencies and silver and gold. He is a dealer as well so always take that into account when he talks about stuff(although I have never felt like he was trying to push people to buy from him). His emails are also very funny from time to time and his personal story(on his website) is a pretty good read too.
As for what to buy, only you can answer that. Eagles are a no brainer, but also generally have the highest premium over spot. Bars/rounds generally have the lowest, but their premium can depend on what mint/foundry they come from(I personally dont understand why one mint/foundry is better or worse than others). You can buy 10oz(or 1oz) bars that are scored into pieces of say .5oz, 1oz or 5 grams(or whatever). 90%(also known as pre-64) is also something to look at, but premiums vary. $1 of pre-64 quarters or dimes is .9oz of silver. I liken 90% to something like the scored bars where its a lot easier to barter with a dime or broken off portion of a scored bar than a full oz silver eagle.
I use JM Bullion pretty much exclusively. Paying by paper check and always having free shipping usually yields the lowest price for ASEs.
APMEX is currently running a sale on ASEs at $2.25 over spot but they add a minimum of $9.95 shipping so keep that in mind. APMEX service is outstanding and shipping is lightening quick as SafetyHit stated. That said, JMB hasn't ever caused an issue with me and waiting a week or so doesn't bother me.
If I was buying tonight, APMEX would get the order. As soon as their sale is over they will go back to higher premiums over JMB, Provident etc. In fact, JMB and Provident just had the same sale as APMEX for the last couple weeks.
To check prices on metals check out comparesilverprices.com
Careful, once you have metals in hand it becomes a little addicting....
... dealers that beat the hell out of places like Apmex....
When you say "beat the hell out of" the online prices, what price are you paying for AGE's and ASE's?
...In Texas(unless something has changed since I researched for a buddy 2 years ago) you pay sales tax on any purchase under $1000....
This is correct but only if you buy the coins from a dealer that is also in TX.
After looking through all the sites mentioned, I don't see any prices that beat Texas Precious Metals, at least in regards to AGE's and ASE's.
When you say "beat the hell out of" the online prices, what price are you paying for AGE's and ASE's?
This is correct but only if you buy the coins from a dealer that is also in TX.
After looking through all the sites mentioned, I don't see any prices that beat Texas Precious Metals, at least in regards to AGE's and ASE's.
My point with checking state law is to see if its worth it to buy locally vs. buying online. If I lived in Texas I would be prone to buy online vs. in a store because of the sales tax. I dont know where the OP lives. It was just an example of differences in state laws.
The place I buy from local to me(scotsman coins) is selling ASE's for 22.89. Looks like the Texas Precious Metals is selling them for 22.56. I personally would have to pay shipping on them so cheaper to buy from my local guy unless I was buying a bunch to spread the shipping out. AGE's at my local place are 1369, and at Texas Precious Metals are 1364. Again not a big difference, but shipping would make my local guy cheaper.
You are right in that the Texas Precious Metal's has a VERY low premium. Shipping can eat up that savings though depending on where you buy from. Like I said, I personally can buy locally for cheaper than most online places, but that might not be the case if you have to pay sales tax. That is why its important to check state laws and see if you pay sales tax on precious metals before just blindly ordering online.
Absolutely true.. If you're not meeting the free shipping requirements or requirements to avoid sales tax, and can do so locally, that is probably the way to go.
Well, realistically, if it all goes to hell in a hand basket, the only thing that's gonna be worth a shit is bullets and beans. But that's a subject for another thread.
There's other reasons to buy other than SHTF.
ForTehNguyen
08-10-14, 08:36
always had a good experience with APMEX
Crow Hunter
08-10-14, 10:18
Where are you located?
State laws vary. Here in Missouri we dont pay sales tax on gold or silver coin purchases and there are a few really good dealers that beat the hell out of places like Apmex(which is probably one of, if not THE best online dealer). In Texas(unless something has changed since I researched for a buddy 2 years ago) you pay sales tax on any purchase under $1000. Your state law may vary on this so something to look at. I can buy locally, with no sales tax, for cheaper than any online place and I get what I want that day, no waiting.
www.the-moneychanger.com is a great online website and the guy does a nightly email that is simply AWESOME talking about the overall markets(he is admittedly NOT a stock/bond kind of guy), world currencies and silver and gold. He is a dealer as well so always take that into account when he talks about stuff(although I have never felt like he was trying to push people to buy from him). His emails are also very funny from time to time and his personal story(on his website) is a pretty good read too.
As for what to buy, only you can answer that. Eagles are a no brainer, but also generally have the highest premium over spot. Bars/rounds generally have the lowest, but their premium can depend on what mint/foundry they come from(I personally dont understand why one mint/foundry is better or worse than others). You can buy 10oz(or 1oz) bars that are scored into pieces of say .5oz, 1oz or 5 grams(or whatever). 90%(also known as pre-64) is also something to look at, but premiums vary. $1 of pre-64 quarters or dimes is .9oz of silver. I liken 90% to something like the scored bars where its a lot easier to barter with a dime or broken off portion of a scored bar than a full oz silver eagle.
West TN. Not that far from you. :)
I am really just looking to buy for the coolness of owning some gold and silver coins to handle and fondle. I am not really worried about the SHTF stuff and needing to barter/trade with it.
I would love to have enough to swim around in it like Scrooge McDuck but I will have to stick with just a few. Eventually I would like to have enough that I could make a little stack out of them.
So I am really looking for coins that can take some handling abuse (so crown or coin metal). But I don't want to get anything with any numismatic value because then I would feel that I couldn't play with them for fear of lowering their value with my playing with them.
I will have to see what TN rules are for buying gold/silver. I am not sure if there are any local coin dealers. Although I do think that I saw one last night on the way back from Nashville.
I would be surprised if TN would let us get by without paying sales taxes. We can't even buy on Amazon now w/o sales tax. :)
Apmex is good but the prices are high.
There are some good forums where you can buy at good and sometimes great prices from some really good folks.
.....<snip>.....
So I am really looking for coins that can take some handling abuse (so crown or coin metal). But I don't want to get anything with any numismatic value because then I would feel that I couldn't play with them for fear of lowering their value with my playing with them.....<snip>.....
For what you are looking for, I would highly recommend the pre-1933 gold coins. Something like what's found in these links:
http://www.providentmetals.com/20-liberty-us-mint-gold-double-eagle-polished-cleaned.html
or
http://www.apmex.com/product/9119/20-liberty-gold-double-eagle-cleaned
The great part about these, is they are over 100 years old, .9675 pure gold so they are highly durable, highly highly, they are 100+ years old and still look fantastic. So you can handle these all day long, flip them to hear the ring, etc etc. No numismatic value, so no worries about handling.
Pretty cool to think that these were with $20 and used as currency 100 years ago.
What I find interesting, is that this same $20 Gold coin back in the early 1900's would have bought you a night in a high-end hotel, and high end dinner out, and a high end play.
100 years later and the value of the very same coin remains, and would buy you the exact same stuff.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3923/14695523058_7d375624f8.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5587/14695519878_5b318bdaa7.jpg
West TN. Not that far from you. :)
The guy I linked you to is in Memphis(or just outside of Memphis) and is a dealer. His prices, from what I can tell are very good. I want to say you all dont pay sales tax, at least I dont think so.
Crow Hunter
10-03-14, 09:35
Just looked at gold prices today.
Rory Clap Batman.
Falling like a rock. :neo:
If anyone is like me and in the market to acquire some, it might be at 5 year lows in just a couple more weeks at this rate.
I have read that the break even point for mining is right around $1,100/oz. Less than $100 from that now. Of course, that was when the dollar was worth less and it seems to be really climbing against everything else right now. (Anticipation of a Republican controlled Legislature is my guess)
I have seen estimates of it getting down as low as $700-800/oz. Now is the time to be saving up some cash to jump on this buying opportunity.
Platinum has dropped even more. It is nearly on par with gold.:moil::neo:
I can't catch the falling knife. Im not even going to try.
Im going to keep buying silver eagles monthly until Gold is sub $1000 or the ratio is favorable to a silver>gold trade (55:1 and lower is what Im hoping for).
I think lower for both is in the the cards.
Silver at 14?
Gold at 900?
Perhaps. Im not that smart though. I'm DCAing all the way down. This is a long term play with a small portion of my portfolio (10-15%, eventually) as Im only in my early 40s now. I may use it in 30 years if needed, if not the kids get a nice stack of metals.
Im good with either and would actually much prefer the latter.
The_War_Wagon
10-03-14, 12:47
Ye Olde Local Coin Shoppe.
Not only do you get your coins, you get to network locally with people who can HELP YOU locally, should the world all flush away in a handbasket. I'd be GLAD to give you a hand, as would most anybody on here... but we don't all LIVE next to you, like the local coin shoppe does.
You'll meet a LOTTA local folk, who are likewise wise about guns and self defense, and you will - without a DOUBT - meet the SMARTEST cross-section of people in your locale, at a local coin shoppe. I LOVE hanging out for a couple of hours, just to shoot the breeze with the owners and their customers - it's time WELL spent, and I always learn something new, useful, and interesting.
Crow Hunter
03-11-15, 08:01
Just a heads up. Gold/Silver/Platinum are back down to their lowest levels in the last several years. Now might be a good time to buy if you are in the market. Of course, if you have my luck, if you buy now, it will go lower.:o
Unless you are in the market for Platinum. Forget it. You can't find it anywhere. Of course, considering it is actually selling for less than gold, people are probably buying it up.
It's interesting this thread came up.. I took the plunge and bought some ASE's yesterday. Local coin shop had ASE's on sale for $20 apiece. I bought 4 and with OH sales tax spent $85.40. Also went to another shop and bought a couple rounds for $18 I'm on a fixed income (retired) and I'm figuring on picking a few coins up every month. This way, I'm not setting out a lot of cash all at once, and, over time my little stash will grow. Myself, I just like the idea of having some real money around, as I have little faith in either the stock market, (world's largest casino, and at this point it time grossly overvalued) or the U.S. Gov'ts ability to manage it's finance's, because as we all know, and history backs this up. All Fiat currency's have FAILED. The U.S. is no different.
Best prices and fastest service: http://www.apmex.com/
You will pay less of a premium (over spot) on older coins such as the English Sovereign ( http://www.apmex.com/category/16770/british-royal-mint-sovereign-coins ) or the Franc than you would let's say an American Gold Eagle or Canadian Maple Leaf.
Stay away from Monex or any of those you see advertise on TV.
I've used APMEX a lot. If you're just looking for metal value and not numismatic value, they have really good prices on "culls" and things like that. Middle of last year I bought some 1/4 ounce gold eagles with "abrasions" (which I couldn't find upon inspection) for like $10 over spot....
Crow Hunter
03-11-15, 14:13
It's interesting this thread came up.. I took the plunge and bought some ASE's yesterday. Local coin shop had ASE's on sale for $20 apiece. I bought 4 and with OH sales tax spent $85.40. Also went to another shop and bought a couple rounds for $18 I'm on a fixed income (retired) and I'm figuring on picking a few coins up every month. This way, I'm not setting out a lot of cash all at once, and, over time my little stash will grow. Myself, I just like the idea of having some real money around, as I have little faith in either the stock market, (world's largest casino, and at this point it time grossly overvalued) or the U.S. Gov'ts ability to manage it's finance's, because as we all know, and history backs this up. All Fiat currency's have FAILED. The U.S. is no different.
You did really good.
The going rate right now at the online place that I follow is running $19.87 each for credit card and $19.11 for Wire/Check on ASEs.
I have been keeping an eye out on them and when they get below a target price, I plan on buying some.
Mine isn't because of any lack of faith in the stock market.
I just like the way it feels to hold in my grubby little hands.
I never understood until I held a gold coin in my hand last year. Now I find my hands itch.;)
I think that gold and sliver will go down some more because platinum is down so much lower than gold right now and platinum used to be called the "Rich Man's Gold" and I can't believe that there is a glut on the market for platinum.
I am nearly salivating over the prospect. :p
I really want to get a Gold Buffalo and a Kruggerand and a Mapleleaf.
If it gets down to $700-800 oz, they will be mine. Oh yes, they will be.
If it gets down to $700-800 oz, they will be mine. Oh yes, they will be.
I have been reading the high 1000 to low 1100 area is where cost of mining is right now. Now, I have no clue where these people get these numbers from so they may not be true.
If those numbers are true, I dont see gold going below them, people would simply stop mining and supply and demand would cause prices to come back up.
I would LOVE to see $5 silver and $700 gold again, but I personally dont see it happening due to production costs.
I have been reading the high 1000 to low 1100 area is where cost of mining is right now. Now, I have no clue where these people get these numbers from so they may not be true.
I'm willing to bet those numbers have dropped significantly with the recent drop in fuel prices.
Crow Hunter
03-11-15, 14:47
I have been reading the high 1000 to low 1100 area is where cost of mining is right now. Now, I have no clue where these people get these numbers from so they may not be true.
If those numbers are true, I dont see gold going below them, people would simply stop mining and supply and demand would cause prices to come back up.
I would LOVE to see $5 silver and $700 gold again, but I personally dont see it happening due to production costs.
I have been seeing the same.
I think the only way that will happen is if something else happens that gets people to sell what they have to invest in something else. I have been following APMEX and noticing that there is quite a bit of older stuff coming up for sale which tells me that some people are trying to lock in the current price. Which happens to be just a little over production costs. If that continues and the US market and USD continue to appreciate, more people might start dumping to keep from losing their shirts.
When that happens.....
I shall have my Scrooge McDuck/Smaug bed.
MWHAHAHAHAHA!!
You did really good.
The going rate right now at the online place that I follow is running $19.87 each for credit card and $19.11 for Wire/Check on ASEs.
I have been keeping an eye out on them and when they get below a target price, I plan on buying some.
Mine isn't because of any lack of faith in the stock market.
I just like the way it feels to hold in my grubby little hands.
I never understood until I held a gold coin in my hand last year. Now I find my hands itch.;)
I think that gold and sliver will go down some more because platinum is down so much lower than gold right now and platinum used to be called the "Rich Man's Gold" and I can't believe that there is a glut on the market for platinum.
I am nearly salivating over the prospect. :p
I really want to get a Gold Buffalo and a Kruggerand and a Mapleleaf.
If it gets down to $700-800 oz, they will be mine. Oh yes, they will be.
I was kinda surprised when I went into the local coin shop and found those ASE's at that price.. I was expecting to pay more. Like I said, next month, I'll be back, hopefully the ASE's price will be the same or lower.. But I too, like how they feel in the hand, I can see how this could get addicting...
Crow Hunter
07-17-15, 09:33
Just a friendly heads up.
If you are in the market or are thinking about it.
Gold and silver both are down quite a bit.
The damn temporary ASE "shortage " has ASE premiums jacked up unfortunately.
That's my usual monthly buy.
Maybe its time to get some Geiger bars...? I really like the look of those but couldn't justify them when ASEs could be found for spot +$2-3.
Good opportunities, regardless.
Doc Safari
07-17-15, 10:01
I keep hearing about something called a "gold IRA". I have a retirement account left over from my law enforcement years. I'm not sure what type of account it is: 401(k), IRA, or something else, but I'd love to convert it to gold or silver coins.
I want to take physical possession of whatever precious metals I might invest in.
Does anybody have any experience with what I'm up against?
I keep hearing about something called a "gold IRA". I have a retirement account left over from my law enforcement years. I'm not sure what type of account it is: 401(k), IRA, or something else, but I'd love to convert it to gold or silver coins.
I want to take physical possession of whatever precious metals I might invest in.
Does anybody have any experience with what I'm up against?
My understanding of a "Gold IRA" is that you personally do not take physical possession of the gold.
I keep hearing about something called a "gold IRA". I have a retirement account left over from my law enforcement years. I'm not sure what type of account it is: 401(k), IRA, or something else, but I'd love to convert it to gold or silver coins.
I want to take physical possession of whatever precious metals I might invest in.
Does anybody have any experience with what I'm up against?
I've no experience, But you have the right idea. you want physical possession period. I have been reading where some of these "Gold IRA's" are being oversold, that is, they sell way more paper than they actually have gold for. And when the panic starts, a lot of folks are going to be stuck with a worthless piece of paper.. If it were me I'd convert some(not all) of that leftover IRA into physical Gold or Silver, and possibly look at reinvesting the rest into something safe..
SomeOtherGuy
07-17-15, 10:26
I keep hearing about something called a "gold IRA". I have a retirement account left over from my law enforcement years. I'm not sure what type of account it is: 401(k), IRA, or something else, but I'd love to convert it to gold or silver coins.
I want to take physical possession of whatever precious metals I might invest in.
Does anybody have any experience with what I'm up against?
If you simply buy a "gold IRA" product sold by someone you are probably buying a paper IOU of unknown value.
However, many (not all) gold coins are eligible to be put into an IRA. I am not an expert, but the basic process is something like this:
1) You set up a self-directed IRA - there are numerous providers, which may include a local financial advisor type person. Do some research to make sure you're dealing with someone legitimate.
2) You transfer existing IRA funds, or your new annual contribution, into that self-directed IRA.
3) The IRA arranges for safe storage of valuables, probably as a safe deposit box at a bank.
4) You have the IRA purchase gold coins in its name (not your personal name) and deposit them at the safe storage location. I'm not sure if you can personally be involved with this - it may need to be the coins going from seller to storage with only your IRA custodian touching them.
5) The coins (etc.) sit in storage as an asset of the IRA. You can later direct the IRA to sell them, which again has to be done by the IRA through its custodian, not, to my knowledge, by you personally taking them to sell.
There are rules on self-dealing and use of assets within an IRA, be sure to review those if you want to go this route.
I keep hearing about something called a "gold IRA". I have a retirement account left over from my law enforcement years. I'm not sure what type of account it is: 401(k), IRA, or something else, but I'd love to convert it to gold or silver coins.
I want to take physical possession of whatever precious metals I might invest in.
Does anybody have any experience with what I'm up against?
I agre with the others.
Buy physical. Perhaps a set $ amount monthly?
I'd be leary of a one time buy in to PMs. Its a volitile commodity which some say has some room to go a little lower.
Having most of my money in equities for growth and a percentage (10-20%, eventually) in PMs is where I've settled for long term growth with wealth preservation, respectively.
Im a 43 yo fireman so my plan may be different then yours depending on your age. I have 12-15 years before I retire.
Ideally, my pension, 457, rental property and DROP account will offer a very comfortable retirement for my wife and I. The PMs are a hedge and hopefully will go to my son and daughter in my senior years when I'm confident I will never need them. If I never need them, I'm happy. They are NOT a retirement plan in my opinion.
That said, I LOVE buying them.
Its addicting.
Crow Hunter
07-17-15, 10:41
I keep hearing about something called a "gold IRA". I have a retirement account left over from my law enforcement years. I'm not sure what type of account it is: 401(k), IRA, or something else, but I'd love to convert it to gold or silver coins.
I want to take physical possession of whatever precious metals I might invest in.
Does anybody have any experience with what I'm up against?
I wouldn't.
If you want, PM me some of the details and I can help you setup a good and reasonable diversified set of holdings.
Or, if you would rather, I can direct you to an EXCELLENT forum that can help you.
Precious metals are okay to own as an asset class but you don't want to be "all in" in anything. Typically you don't want to exceed 10% of your total savings in precious metals.
Assuming it is a 401k, 403b, 457 type account and not a defined benefit pension, you should be able to roll that over into an IRA in a custodian to custodian transfer. My recommendation is Vanguard or Fidelity but there are others.
Punkey71,
You're right about the addicting part.. There's something about holding an ounce of silver or gold that just screams REAL MONEY.
ForTehNguyen
07-17-15, 14:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYhTFz_SGw0
ForTehNguyen
07-17-15, 14:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7usCHnZ-8c
What these two vids show is just how dumb people are, and it's people like this is why we've had Obumbo get elected...twice.. unable to think at a critical level. I mean come on, a candy bar or 10oz of silver? How stupid can you get? and they ALL take the candy?
While I'm sure some people knew what the value was and took the metal, there are some ignorant folks out there.
http://youtu.be/ndshbH3qZ6Y
Trying to sell a 1 oz Gold Maple Leaf for $25
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
CleverNickname
07-17-15, 16:20
While those videos make great clockbait, I wouldn't have taken the deal either, and I know how much gold and silver are worth. Look at the possibiliities:
1. Some guy is trying to scam you.
2. The really tiny possibility this guy is actually willing to take a $>1000 loss for some strange unknown reason.
Of course, scammers often want to "take a loss" and help out their marks out of the goodness of their heart, because the scammers are such nice people don't you know. Sure he has the gold verified as "good", but who's to say that the dealer isn't part of the scam or there's not some other catch that you haven't thought of right away.
Doc Safari
07-17-15, 16:32
Another serious question:
How the heck do you securely take delivery of your precious metals?
I worked in an industry where UPS and FedEx lose things all the time.
Once you have it, do you just store it in a gun safe?
I'd be somewhat concerned that there's an invoice somewhere stating that X-thousand dollars worth of gold was delivered to my door.
While those videos make great clockbait, I wouldn't have taken the deal either, and I know how much gold and silver are worth. Look at the possibiliities:
1. Some guy is trying to scam you.
2. The really tiny possibility this guy is actually willing to take a $>1000 loss for some strange unknown reason.
Of course, scammers often want to "take a loss" and help out their marks out of the goodness of their heart, because the scammers are such nice people don't you know. Sure he has the gold verified as "good", but who's to say that the dealer isn't part of the scam or there's not some other catch that you haven't thought of right away.
I see what you are saying. Knowing what we know I would look at him funny and I bet if I jumped on it he'd "let me in on the experiment" and NOT sell me the coin for $25.
The folks in the video (who weren't all those he stopped that day, I'm sure) were most likely turning it down because they have absolutely no clue of the value of the metals and probably never even heard of American Eagles or Canadian Maple Leafs.
It's a set up, for sure. But it works because he knew he would find enough people that are clueless.
That's all I take from the vids.
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Another serious question:
How the heck do you securely take delivery of your precious metals?
I worked in an industry where UPS and FedEx lose things all the time.
Once you have it, do you just store it in a gun safe?
I'd be somewhat concerned that there's an invoice somewhere stating that X-thousand dollars worth of gold was delivered to my door.
UPS or FedEx heavily insure it, Check with who you're buying from and see what they say. Ask what they do in case of theft. Invoices? As long as everything is ok, and you've no further need of them, burn them after delivery. Safes? depends on how much PM and what kind you plan on getting,(Gold Sliver?) for a small amount, a gun safe would work. For larger amounts, go to a locksmith and see if the have some used, real safes for sale, you won't need one that's real big, just something heavy, and hard to move/ break into.
BuzzinSATX
07-17-15, 19:16
Another serious question:
How the heck do you securely take delivery of your precious metals?
I worked in an industry where UPS and FedEx lose things all the time.
Once you have it, do you just store it in a gun safe?
I'd be somewhat concerned that there's an invoice somewhere stating that X-thousand dollars worth of gold was delivered to my door.
1. I order mostly through 2 sources, and I've never had an issue with either:
www.gainesvillecoin.com
www.providentmetals.com
Gainesville Coins send me my coins/bullion through USPS and they use an obscure return address...something like "Johnson Electrical Supply". First time I ordered, I almost refused the package LOL until the postman told me it was certified mail and not likely a mistake.
2. I store my coins in my safe in one of these organizers:
Tubes (for 20 1oz. coins): http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/167365/silver-dollar-tube-38mm.aspx
Case for the tubes: http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/159011/empty-monster-box.aspx
If you buy 10-more coins, they usually ship them a tube unless they come in sleeves or plastic sheets.
I store all my coins in my gun safe. I used to worry about it, but realistically, I am not super worried about them. I have them included in my homeowners insurance, and I have a list of all my coins in my computer and backup.
If you want to learn how it works, start out buying some silver eagles, rounds, or bullets. They are cheap enough right now, and while they are not current, they are really cool, and all my friends at the range will always buy any I want to sell for more than I buy them for. Here are some of the most popular ones gun lovers seem to want:
Silver Eagle (US Currency): http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/168995/2015-american-silver-eagle-1-oz-coin-brilliant-uncirculated.aspx
Trident: http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/168673/1-oz-trident-silver-round.aspx
Molon Labe: http://www.providentmetals.com/molon-labe-1-oz-silver-rounds.html
Vigilance: http://www.providentmetals.com/dont-tread-on-me-1-oz-silver-round.html
Bullets: http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/silver/private-slv/silver-bullets.html
Suggest you try both Gainesville Coin and Provident Metals. Both are fast to ship, and I've never had an issue with either. I will typically use Gainesville if I can as they are in FL and I don't have to pay sales tax. I pay sales tax from Provident as they are in DFW. Shipping is about the same from either.
I typically buy silver. I like buying a variety of currency, including American Eagles, Canadian Maple Leafs, and Chinese Pandas. I've also bought Australian Kookaburras. All are great coins. The Eagles are all the same except the dates, but the Pandas and Kookaburras change every year, and the Canadians have cool wildlife series with limited mintages, making them a bit more collectable, and if you buy them when they are first issued, they are typically very cheap.
I am buying silver/gold coins to pass on to my kids/grandkids at some point in the future, similar to watches, knives, and guns...
YMMV
FlyingHunter
07-17-15, 19:41
While the Fed Reserve has been talking rate increases forever, let's say they finally move rates up in the near future (fall/winter 2015). Gold typically goes down in price as a reaction to i rate increases...Right?
While the Fed Reserve has been talking rate increases forever, let's say they finally move rates up in the near future (fall/winter 2015). Gold typically goes down in price as a reaction to i rate increases...Right?
I think all bets are off, sadly.
From 2008-2011 gold skyrocketed under ZIRP. It's since lost nearly 50% with ZIRP still in place.
There are many factors - paper markets, rates, supply, foreign demand, inflation, deflation etc.
Some don't see the actual VALUE of Gold or silver changing very much. (parabolic moves excluded). They see them as a near constant, kind of. The price changes show a change in the value of the CURRENCY used to acquire gold/silver.
It's an interesting way to look at it actually. Some view PMs as a wealth preservation tool - maintaining a fairly consistent purchasing power. Look at PMs compared to other things, not just US dollars. Oil, real estate, DJIA etc. It's interesting for sure.
It's not a sure thing, ever. Nor is it a get rich scheme. It's a hedge for me.
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With silver at 14.83 and gold at 1080 are you guys seeing what you thought you're see a few months back?
Still holding low 70's GSR.
Some thought silver will see 10 and gold 900.
Thoughts?
Plans?
Always an interesting discussion.
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SomeOtherGuy
11-10-15, 19:38
I've stopped making any short term or specific predictions. I think PMs are a good long term asset, and on some timescale - within decades but I don't know if sooner - will be profitable compared to holding cash or publicly traded US stocks. All of the financial markets are outrageously distorted at this point, and what happens in the short term depends mostly on distortion.
Crow Hunter
11-11-15, 07:30
With silver at 14.83 and gold at 1080 are you guys seeing what you thought you're see a few months back?
Still holding low 70's GSR.
Some thought silver will see 10 and gold 900.
Thoughts?
Plans?
Always an interesting discussion.
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Yes. I think that once the Fed starts raising interest rates, which will calm fears about run away inflation AND more importantly will push investors (particularly certain countries that may have shaky currencies) into selling their gold/silver holdings and start buying T-bills that will actually start paying a little interest as well as drive up the value of the USD even further. (Which will result in lower PM prices)
I think this will push both gold and silver down. I think we will at least go back to a the normal Silver/Gold/Platinum pricing. Right now, platinum is right around $900/oz and historically it is normally priced higher than gold and it actually has a much more useful/valuable industrial uses than gold.
My plans are to buy more. :)
If gold gets down to the $700-800/oz range I will probably buy that Gold Buffalo I have been wanting and maybe a Krug and/or Maple leaf. Or maybe a First Lady Michelle Obama coin... (Just kidding)
I would also like to get a nice heavy silver bar. I don't know what size but big enough that I know it is heavy. :)
I would also like to get a platinum coin but I was really hoping that the US Mint would release a new designed Platinum Eagle as I really don't think the current one is very nice looking. I had read online that they were looking at doing that and some of the designs they were looking at were very beautiful. Apparently though, because platinum is so hard to work, there are some technical difficulties.
I have wanted some gold and silver coins since first playing D&D back in grade school. I finally have some extra cash available and I am going to get a Silver Eagle and a 1/2oz Gold Eagle. Actually my wife wants to get it for me for my birthday and if I really like them and I am a really good boy she said that she might buy me more for my next birthday.:cool:
Where do you guys go to buy your gold/silver from? I know nothing about buying bullion.
I've used gold line in the past, great people to work with in my experience, markup doesn't seem rediculous.
SomeOtherGuy
11-11-15, 08:30
Yes. I think that once the Fed starts raising interest rates,
But this is a huge wildcard, because raising rates will crush the economy, which isn't doing all that well anyway. Yellen actually mentioned the possibility of negative interest rates to a Congressional panel a week or so ago. It's quite possible that the Fed will keep talking about raising rates, to mitigate inflation fears, but never actually do so, to avoid pushing us into a more obvious recession.
I've used provident, JMBullion, Pinehurst Coins and Apmex. I'm not married to any of them. Shop every time you are about to buy.
No issues with any of them. Watch for sales and don't be afraid to look at their Ebay specials. Apmex in particular offers some damn good prices on their ebay sales. Bonus for the ebay sales is you can use your CC cheaper than paper check or E check via the dealers websites.
Shop, shop, shop.
As for buying, I'm buying slowly on the way down. I did dump some silver Eagles at a nice profit to buy an AGE. If I figure the silver profit in I got the AGE for just about $900. Yeah, that's shady accounting since I could have used the profit elsewhere and the AGE actually cost me closer to $1200, but it makes me feel better thinking I got it on sale!
As others have noted, this isn't some doomsday, prepper fantasy. I'm heavily invested in the markets and rental real estate. Metals are a hedge for me and occupy a small portion of my assets.
Also, I enjoy it. That may be the most important, and honest, justification of them all.
Do what you are comfortable doing and enjoy it.
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Crow Hunter
11-11-15, 08:37
But this is a huge wildcard, because raising rates will crush the economy, which isn't doing all that well anyway. Yellen actually mentioned the possibility of negative interest rates to a Congressional panel a week or so ago. It's quite possible that the Fed will keep talking about raising rates, to mitigate inflation fears, but never actually do so, to avoid pushing us into a more obvious recession.
I think there is a 50/50 chance they will raise rates in Dec and a 90% chance they will raise them by March.
I think the economy is doing fairly decently. I judge this based on a couple of trips I have taken recently into Missouri and Illinois and my local area. There are help wanted signs everywhere and have been for the last 3 to 5 months. While they aren't the best jobs out there, it tells me that employment is picking up at least some. Especially since we are not in a high labor demand area.
Of course I am not an economist or a prognosticator by trade and I am often wrong.:D
Crow Hunter
11-11-15, 08:51
I've used provident, JMBullion, Pinehurst Coins and Apmex. I'm not married to any of them. Shop every time you are about to buy.
No issues with any of them. Watch for sales and don't be afraid to look at their Ebay specials. Apmex in particular offers some damn good prices on their ebay sales. Bonus for the ebay sales is you can use your CC cheaper than paper check or E check via the dealers websites.
Shop, shop, shop.
As for buying, I'm buying slowly on the way down. I did dump some silver Eagles at a nice profit to buy an AGE. If I figure the silver profit in I got the AGE for just about $900. Yeah, that's shady accounting since I could have used the profit elsewhere and the AGE actually cost me closer to $1200, but it makes me feel better thinking I got it on sale!
As others have noted, this isn't some doomsday, prepper fantasy. I'm heavily invested in the markets and rental real estate. Metals are a hedge for me and occupy a small portion of my assets.
Also, I enjoy it. That may be the most important, and honest, justification of them all.
Do what you are comfortable doing and enjoy it.
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Now that you have posted that you made a capital gain for all the world to see.... ;)
Don't forget you have to report that gain on your taxes and you have to use the collectibles tax rate rules.
If you held it less than a year, you have to pay short term tax rate (which is your marginal rate) and if held for greater than 1 year, you have to pay the collectible LTCG tax rate which is 28%.
http://finance.zacks.com/pay-taxes-selling-gold-2282.html
If you don't, you will be committing tax fraud and something most people don't notice/realize/think about when they are looking at investing in physical gold. Maybe you won't get audited, maybe you will. It wouldn't be a chance that I would want to take.
If you had instead invested in VTSAX in a taxable account, you would have both earned dividends and if you held it for more than 1 year before selling only had to pay 15% on the gain.
Gain?
no, no, reinvestment!
:-)
Crow Hunter
11-11-15, 10:58
Gain?
no, no, reinvestment!
:-)
In all seriousness, it is still considered a capital gain if your cost basis is lower than your sale price (just like stocks/bonds/real estate) and it could cause you to wind up with fines and back taxes if you were unlucky enough to get caught in an audit and you didn't report that as a capital gain and pay the appropriate taxes on it.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
11-11-15, 15:44
So what's the best place to go for PMs since I live in Texas? I bought some a couple of years ago and can't recall where. I think it was bullion direct which has now filed for Chapter 11. Texmetals states on their site that PMs are tax free. Is that likely the best place for me to buy since I'm in-state? I obviously need to buy 1k minimum per order but I'm hoping to start doing that monthly if not more so.
JM Bullion, APMEX, Pinehurst Coins and Provident Metals are where I go. The first 2 getting most of my business.
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