Design the perfect MRDS for a pistol

[JHC]

In the hypothetical that an established optics manufacturer was to start with a blank sheet of paper to build the best every mini RDS for handguns what would I want?
My experience with them is limited to several hundred rounds total between a first generation Burris Fastfire one of my G19s way back when they first came out and more recently a Trijicon RMR a friend mounted on one of the purpose built slides for his G19.
My bottom line impression is that I don’t care for the concept. I did see a pretty incredible 25 yard precision capability. But to me this was overshadowed by the slowness of acquiring the dot when presenting from the draw at close ranges vs iron sights only. And I’m aware of quite a few MRDS on a pistol adopters that after vastly more time and shooting volume with them have judged them to be fast enough to balance the scale the other way. My sense is many of them acknowledge they are not as fast up close as irons – bottom line.

1. So my number one design requirement is to dramatically improve the acquisition of the dot at max speed. Now if that could be done by projecting a holographic reticle into thin air over the slide and that could actually be zeroed – that would be the ultimate heads up display. That however may be a bit of a technological stretch for a little while yet. So assuming we need to still stay with a lens – I’m wondering if the sight and mount design could allow the lens to extend down flush with the top of the slide. Perhaps by moving the electronics to the top or side of the sight’s structure? But maybe a view that is open down to the surface of the slide could really improve dot acquisition. And an added bonus might be to eliminate the need for the extra tall suppressor sights as back up.
2. Or . . . integrate the back up iron rear sight into the optics window itself.
3. Battery compartment on the side or top to make room for the above feature; with no change to zero when the battery is changed.
4. Use a dovetail to mount the optic directly to the slide.
5. IDK if the back up irons belong ahead of the optic or behind it.
6. Pistol manufacturer slides or complete guns with the mounting features as OEM features and complete guns/optics available.
7. Small total footprint of the optic in all directions no larger than the RDS, preferably smaller.
8. A sharper more precise dot reticle (than I see on RMRs). My eyes are not very electronic dot friendly.
9. A BDC reticle – perhaps like the EOTech with the BDC dots below the primary closer range reticle. Seems silly on a pistol but if a 100 yd and 150 yd BDC dot was possible below a primary closer range 5 MOA circle or something . . . just sayin’
10. Hilton Yam reported a difficulty while shooting in the rain when a bead of water was right on the diode and it really screwed up the reticle display. Could that diode be on the top of the hood of the optic and project down? Thereby being less likely for water to collect in it?
11. Waterproof/shockproof assumed.

Any other ideas?
Anything here that is just rubbish?

[Coal Dragger]

I have an RMR mounted on a single action revolver and it has seen about 100 rounds of full powered .454 Casull so far with no ill affects to the sight, and several hundred more rounds of .45 ACP through the auxiliary cylinder I had made. I do have some thoughts on some of your concerns.

First I will give my experiences and thoughts on dot acquisition. I am using a 3.25 MOA dot which is perfect for my use, which is hunting with this revolver out to ranges of 100 yards maybe more if I am confident in the shot. However, this is not a fast sight picture to acquire and takes a lot of practice to present the gun to the target and pick up the dot right away. I find starting with the muzzle a bit high and pulling it down through the window works well to bring up the dot. Still not very fast, but manageable for what I am using it for. If go fast close up work is a must I don't see any way to avoid needing to use the iron sights, which means they will need to be integrated into the MRDS body to look through the window with a tall enough front sight to work, or both front and rear sights that are tall enough to be seen. Unfortunately in my application the rear sight had to be removed in order to place the optic mount on the top strap.

For your other criteria, you ask a lot of good questions but I think you may be leaving one out that is probably more likely to solve a lot of the issues you have, and it has more to do with the handgun rather than the sight. You touch on it in bulletin point 6. And that is manufacturers offering pistols that are made to run with a MRDS or other optical sight. Frankly the best case would be a pistol that doesn't use a reciprocating slide assembly that the optic will have to ride around on and slam back and forth. You may have noticed that tracking the dot with whole sight reciprocating is a real chore. I'm not sure it is even possible to design reasonably sized semi-auto pistols that could use a reciprocating bolt in a fixed top end that doesn't move, but that would be ideal. If such a pistol could be made I would further wish for a standardized footprint for mounting that was machined into the top end to sit as low as possible. When you think about it there is a reason you see optics rails on race guns, and that is because the go fast shooters and gamers have figured out long ago that a sight that is not slamming back and forth for every shot is going to be much more easy to use, so they bolt those big ugly not very practical optics mounts to the frames of their pistols. I suppose that is also an option but you give up a lot of ability to conceal such a set up. Otherwise the best we can hope for are the slides being cut from the factory to mount an MRDS like FN does with their .45ACP with tall sights that can be seen in the window.

I for one would also be interested in seeing what a MRDS with a closed body would be like, something like an Aimpoint Micro. It would undoubtedly give better performance in inclement weather.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Iron sights!


Just kidding. It reminded me of that old quote "When fuel injection is finally perfected you will have a carburetor."

[LibertyNeverDies]

Some sort of QD feature incase the lens becomes obstructed(Iron sights are useless if you can't see through the lens). I don't know how that would be done in a small package similar to the RMR.

[teutonicpolymer]

In the hypothetical that an established optics manufacturer was to start with a blank sheet of paper to build the best every mini RDS for handguns what would I want?
My experience with them is limited to several hundred rounds total between a first generation Burris Fastfire one of my G19s way back when they first came out and more recently a Trijicon RMR a friend mounted on one of the purpose built slides for his G19.
My bottom line impression is that I don’t care for the concept. I did see a pretty incredible 25 yard precision capability. But to me this was overshadowed by the slowness of acquiring the dot when presenting from the draw at close ranges vs iron sights only. And I’m aware of quite a few MRDS on a pistol adopters that after vastly more time and shooting volume with them have judged them to be fast enough to balance the scale the other way. My sense is many of them acknowledge they are not as fast up close as irons – bottom line.

1. So my number one design requirement is to dramatically improve the acquisition of the dot at max speed. Now if that could be done by projecting a holographic reticle into thin air over the slide and that could actually be zeroed – that would be the ultimate heads up display. That however may be a bit of a technological stretch for a little while yet. So assuming we need to still stay with a lens – I’m wondering if the sight and mount design could allow the lens to extend down flush with the top of the slide. Perhaps by moving the electronics to the top or side of the sight’s structure? But maybe a view that is open down to the surface of the slide could really improve dot acquisition. And an added bonus might be to eliminate the need for the extra tall suppressor sights as back up.
2. Or . . . integrate the back up iron rear sight into the optics window itself.
3. Battery compartment on the side or top to make room for the above feature; with no change to zero when the battery is changed.
4. Use a dovetail to mount the optic directly to the slide.
5. IDK if the back up irons belong ahead of the optic or behind it.
6. Pistol manufacturer slides or complete guns with the mounting features as OEM features and complete guns/optics available.
7. Small total footprint of the optic in all directions no larger than the RDS, preferably smaller.
8. A sharper more precise dot reticle (than I see on RMRs). My eyes are not very electronic dot friendly.
9. A BDC reticle – perhaps like the EOTech with the BDC dots below the primary closer range reticle. Seems silly on a pistol but if a 100 yd and 150 yd BDC dot was possible below a primary closer range 5 MOA circle or something . . . just sayin’
10. Hilton Yam reported a difficulty while shooting in the rain when a bead of water was right on the diode and it really screwed up the reticle display. Could that diode be on the top of the hood of the optic and project down? Thereby being less likely for water to collect in it?
11. Waterproof/shockproof assumed.

Any other ideas?
Anything here that is just rubbish?

If I understand what you are saying correctly (I am not sure what you are getting at with 1) then the first 2 things don't make a lot of sense from an optics perspective.

9 is possible but it might not really make sense to make it.

My answer for 10 is the Aimpoint Micro or cleverly designing the glass that covers the LED

The other stuff seems reasonable

[JHC]

For your other criteria, you ask a lot of good questions but I think you may be leaving one out that is probably more likely to solve a lot of the issues you have, and it has more to do with the handgun rather than the sight. You touch on it in bulletin point 6. And that is manufacturers offering pistols that are made to run with a MRDS or other optical sight. Frankly the best case would be a pistol that doesn't use a reciprocating slide assembly that the optic will have to ride around on and slam back and forth. You may have noticed that tracking the dot with whole sight reciprocating is a real chore. I'm not sure it is even possible to design reasonably sized semi-auto pistols that could use a reciprocating bolt in a fixed top end that doesn't move, but that would be ideal. If such a pistol could be made I would further wish for a standardized footprint for mounting that was machined into the top end to sit as low as possible. When you think about it there is a reason you see optics rails on race guns, and that is because the go fast shooters and gamers have figured out long ago that a sight that is not slamming back and forth for every shot is going to be much more easy to use, so they bolt those big ugly not very practical optics mounts to the frames of their pistols. I suppose that is also an option but you give up a lot of ability to conceal such a set up. Otherwise the best we can hope for are the slides being cut from the factory to mount an MRDS like FN does with their .45ACP with tall sights that can be seen in the window.

I for one would also be interested in seeing what a MRDS with a closed body would be like, something like an Aimpoint Micro. It would undoubtedly give better performance in inclement weather.

That reciprocating with the slide is gonna be a persistent problem area. Closed body like a purpose built T1. Hmmm.

[JHC]

Some sort of QD feature incase the lens becomes obstructed(Iron sights are useless if you can't see through the lens). I don't know how that would be done in a small package similar to the RMR.

Larue!!! Yes!

[JHC]

Iron sights!


Just kidding. It reminded me of that old quote "When fuel injection is finally perfected you will have a carburetor."

I know right? I'm all irons for a few more years. Eyesight is going to keep getting more challenging.