View Full Version : Considering a 9mm 1911
Does anyone have any recommendations on one? I've got several 1911s and really like shooting them, but 9mm hits lighter in the wallet.
Oh, also, based on previous experience with Kimber's guns and customer service, I've got a strong aversion to ever giving Kimber another dime, so I'd prefer not to buy another Kimber product. Yes, out of spite. ;)
John_Wayne777
06-13-08, 07:58
Is this intended to be a paper puncher or a life saver?
I ask because ***in general*** 9mm 1911's don't have a stellar reputation for reliability. If you want to depend on one to save your bacon I'd humbly suggest sticking to a .45.
Now if that doesn't worry you, I believe STI makes a couple of 9mm 1911s that have been pretty well received. Para-Ordnance makes some...but then again, they are still Para-Ordnance guns.
Colt made a limited number of them way back when but I'd imagine the prices on them are outrageous.
I agree with the above. Not from experience, but from researching the topic myself.
Springfield has that short action 9mm that sounds like it has some promiss. (as much as I can't stand anything springfield:mad: ) If their idea works it'd eliminate much of the reliability issues with running a short round in the 1911 action.
But they screwed up and made it a high end (over $1000) carry gun. If they'd have had the sense to make it a mini GI style pistol in the 500 dollar range, they'd sell a zillion of them. Who wants an overpriced 9mm carry gun that's unproven when there's already much cheaper, and proven options out there? :rolleyes:
Springfield makes several models that won't break the bank and should be relatively easy to find.
I have and shoot a 1911 9mm in commander size regularly in matches and training classes. I also carry this gun and trust it fully. 9mm 1911 is fun to shoot, almost no recoil, fast cycling and duplicate all of the operation of its full size caliber. It's a whole lot cheaper to shoot.
The thing you need to watch for is use the right recoil spring for your ammo, use good magazines (Metalform "Springfield/Front ramp" magazines) and lube. Treat it like you treat a fine tuned race car and it will run like one. If you treat it like your lawn mower, better get a glock or M&P, couldn't resist that line.
The best out of the box factory 1911 I've seen are the STI Trojans. I think they have the best value ($900 - $1000), good sights, excellent trigger (in the handful of samples I've seen), nicely dehorn (unlike Springfield 9s) and absolutely accurate.
This is strictly a paper puncher. Just something I can take to the range and shoot more cheaply than the other half-dozen 1911s I have in the safe.
rubberneck
06-13-08, 08:44
I have a Government length Caspian 9MM built by Tripp Research. I have probably close to 15,000 rounds through it and it runs like a dream. They require a little more attention to detail to get running but once you have it in it's sweet spot there are no issues. Since mine was built from the ground up it required no tweaking as it ran 100% right out of the gate with the 5 mags that I ordered with the gun. Which brings me to my next point, the weakest link with any 9MM 1911 is the mags. Tripp's new 10 round mags work really well in my experience. The Leatham Metalforms are pretty good but not as nice as the Tripp mags. That is my own personal observation.
My advise is if you buy a production gun expect to have it tweaked. You may not have to but it won't burn your ass if you do. Along those lines stay away from the Kimbers. I say that not because I dislike Kimber but because I know enough people who have had less then stellar dealings with them when it comes to warranty work.
If you aren't willing to spend semi-custom money on a 9MM my advice would be to buy a Springfield. Their customer service is excellent and in the event that the gun has issues they have a lifetime guarantee and two of the best gunsmiths in the world on staff. If Dave Williams or Jason Chambless can't get the gun running 100% than no one can.
I have a STI Trojan in 9mm. Out of the box the gun had a few issues FTF / FTE:(
Trip to a local 1911 gunsmith solved all problems and now she purrs like a kitten.
I like 9mm 1911 so much I'm going to build another one.
ETA Here's a quick picture.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/Dragnaath/9mmTrojan-1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/Dragnaath/9mmTrojan.jpg
Paul
you mean like this? :p
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/kgdolan/S1030530.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/kgdolan/S1030540.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l156/kgdolan/S1030544.jpg
i dont have a .45 1911 anymore....just 9mm....they absolutely can be made correctly...and now that Wilson is making 9mm ETMs...oooooolala!
Gutshot John
06-13-08, 16:01
I have to agree with John Wayne. What do you want to use it for?
If you're looking for a cheaper, practice alternative to your .45 1911, I'd say great, go for it. If you're looking to stake your life on it, get a .45 or another 9mm platform....like an HP if you like the Browning design.
As a general rule I believe in going with the caliber that the gun was originally designed for. There are lots of single-stack 9mms I'd consider first.
1911 in 9mm has the capacity shortcomings of the 1911, without its big-bore advantage.
exitinyourhead
06-13-08, 16:18
I agree with the above. Not from experience, but from researching the topic myself.
Springfield has that short action 9mm that sounds like it has some promiss. (as much as I can't stand anything springfield:mad: ) If their idea works it'd eliminate much of the reliability issues with running a short round in the 1911 action.
But they screwed up and made it a high end (over $1000) carry gun. If they'd have had the sense to make it a mini GI style pistol in the 500 dollar range, they'd sell a zillion of them. Who wants an overpriced 9mm carry gun that's unproven when there's already much cheaper, and proven options out there? :rolleyes:
gawd help me i want one. I think i'm sick or something.
gawd help me i want one. I think i'm sick or something.
If springfield made a short action 1911 in the GI style format, I'd be tempted.
I've had a handful of 9mm 1911's over the past few years, and they can be a bit finicky. But they more than make up for it when you get them running right.
I've had good luck with Metalform "front ramp" magazines made for Springfield, and older Colt 9mm magazines. Running Winchester bulk pack 115gr FMJ ammo, 5" variants like ~12# recoil springs, and 4.5" variants like 14# recoil springs.
The Springfield loaded model w/fixed sights is decent, but will need a dehorn and could stand a replacement of ILS MSH internals to make it more enjoyable. IIRC, Springfield used to make a blued 9mm 5" 1911 that was very similar to the GI model; they turn up from time to time on auctions.
Colts are excellent, and if you're patient you might find one at a decent price. Good luck with your hunt, you'll have a lot of fun with it at the range!
http://tinyurl.com/59mngl
Hey guys. I'm new to the forum but not to handgunning.
I own and operate an indoor shooting range for the past 20 years and I have been an active instructor for all of that, both LEO and civilian.
I have carried and used the lightweight commander in 45ACP exclusively since 1988, ut due to some medical problems I can no longer shoot (comfortably) the 45 so I began just as are you, looking for a replacement in the 9MM.
I could find no substitute that I felt comfortable with in 2001 and 2002 so I decided to build my own custom lightweight commander in 9MM.
I used Caspian frame and slide, Kart barrel and almost all of the rest is out of the Wilson cabinet. This gun now has between 30 and 40 thousand rounds almost all of them my own reloads and it has never failed me a single round, not once. I have also shot quite a few of the SD rounds such as Federal Hydrashok and Gold dot and Golden Saber and 200 of the CorBon in different bullett weights. It handles all of them.
I made my own rear sight to match the one I had on my Colt all those years and made every part on tis gun to match the Colt so I did not have to retrain or familiarize myself.
You might look at something like this as your alternative. Hope this helps.
UncleFudd
www.caswells.com
The 9MM is obviously the gun with the finger grooves in the grips. Also I use the ghost ring rear sights for my carry guns and have sine 1988.
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/UncleFudd/riflesquietandwinchester064.jpg
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/UncleFudd/riflesquietandwinchester059.jpg
Alaskapopo
06-14-08, 07:27
Does anyone have any recommendations on one? I've got several 1911s and really like shooting them, but 9mm hits lighter in the wallet.
Oh, also, based on previous experience with Kimber's guns and customer service, I've got a strong aversion to ever giving Kimber another dime, so I'd prefer not to buy another Kimber product. Yes, out of spite. ;)
I use this for IDPA. Its a STI Trojan. Its reliable and the best mags going right now are Wilson ETM 10 round mags.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Semi%20auto%20pistols/Trojanfullview.jpg
These are some pretty nice 9mms, thanks for sharing. And anyone else who has one, let me know.
As far as the discussion on the terminal ballistics that's poked its head in here a little bit - the 9mm punches paper just fine. As I said, that's what I'm looking for: a range 1911 that I can shoot a little more cheaply over the long run.
I looked around a little yesterday and the only thing I could find in the brick and mortar shops was a Kimber. No thanks. ;)
Federale -- I don't think you're likely to find an "over the counter" solution that will satisfy your expectations. As such, you're talking about getting a semi-custom or custom gun, or getting a production gun and having it worked on.
The question you need to ask is whether that expense will pay for itself in ammo savings. If .45 is going for, say, $5 more per box of 50 than 9mm, and you eventually dump $1,200 into a 9mm 1911, that $1,200 would have covered the difference in ammo price for 12,000 rounds of ammo.
If you think you'll shoot 50,000 rounds per year through it, it's a no-brainer solution. If you're more likely to shoot 5,000 rounds per year through it, maybe not so much.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-14-08, 09:30
I keep going back and forth on the 9mm 1911. I would want one for the same reason Federale does, training with a round that has some recoil. OTOH, it will take about 20k rounds of reloads for me to catch up with the price difference. OTOH, I like being abled to wonder into wally world and buy the ammo rather than slaving over the Dillon. Hell, I don't even care about reliablity so much because it just affords jam clearing practice. Ughh. :D :confused:
Federale -- I don't think you're likely to find an "over the counter" solution that will satisfy your expectations. As such, you're talking about getting a semi-custom or custom gun, or getting a production gun and having it worked on.
The question you need to ask is whether that expense will pay for itself in ammo savings. If .45 is going for, say, $5 more per box of 50 than 9mm, and you eventually dump $1,200 into a 9mm 1911, that $1,200 would have covered the difference in ammo price for 12,000 rounds of ammo.
If you think you'll shoot 50,000 rounds per year through it, it's a no-brainer solution. If you're more likely to shoot 5,000 rounds per year through it, maybe not so much.
These are good points. But I'm always looking for a good base gun from which to build (that Colt looks nice :)), so if I have to tweak it a bit, I'm okay with that.
As for cost savings, well, my cost for 9mm ammunition is pretty low ;) and the supply is, well, unlimited. My calculations are that the pistol will cost me roughly about what 2 cases of .45 Gold Dot would cost. Sure, I could shoot cheaper stuff, but this is for argument's sake. So, $1,200 for a pistol I can feed for pretty much nothing, or 2,000 rounds that I'll burn through pretty quickly?
Plus, I think there is a benefit to having a softer recoiling version of a pistol.
And, I just think that I want one.:D
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-14-08, 09:38
And, I just think that I want one.
DING DING DING DING:D :D
Given the source of 9mm, have you considered getting a .40, then? There is a lot more collective experience and knowledge in making .40-cal 1911's run due to their popularity in IPSC. It would also be closer in recoil characteristics to the .45 ...
Given the source of 9mm, have you considered getting a .40, then? There is a lot more collective experience and knowledge in making .40-cal 1911's run due to their popularity in IPSC. It would also be closer in recoil characteristics to the .45 ...
That might also be an option I haven't thought of. I have a good source for .40 as well.
Who makes good .40 1911s?
If not reloading go with 9mm . I think any good manufacturer can give a 9mm package . Just Find options you want dollar you want to spend and go with it . some suggestions lesbaer , sti , briley ,on the high side nighthawk , wilson
Given the source of 9mm, have you considered getting a .40, then? There is a lot more collective experience and knowledge in making .40-cal 1911's run due to their popularity in IPSC. It would also be closer in recoil characteristics to the .45 ...
With all due respect Todd, those .40 1911s in IPSC are using handloaded rounds. They had to load them longer to mimic the .45acp cartridge length for the .40 to feed properly. That's just too much problem. For 9mm, at least you can get magazines like the Metalform "Springfield" front ramp or Tripp and now the new Wilson which supposedly eliminate feeding issues.
Since folks are into posting pics of their favorite 9mm, here I go:
http://www.louderthanwords.us/smallfoto/picts/ulfls/2300105/21161426811.jpg
Photo courtesy of Steve Bailey of www.louderthanwords.us and Heirloom Precisions.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-14-08, 15:53
Sam always has the nice stuff!
John_Wayne777
06-14-08, 19:05
And, I just think that I want one.:D
After seeing some of these pictures so do I. I've always had a hard-on for 1911s, especially Colts.....looking at these pictures is just killing me.
john , just for info the colt doesn't come with a ramped barrel . Shouldnt be a problem . I know in 38super you shouldnt shoot IPSC loads with out a ramp
exitinyourhead
06-15-08, 22:30
i was drooling over a springfield EMP in 9mm and left it up on the living room computer the other day.... my wife went and bought one for fathers day.
put 100 flawless rounds of total crap reload 9mm through it today without a single issue. I've had "minor" issues with this ammo with my m&p's, cz and my hk. The little out of the box springfield ate it like candy. I love this little pistol. Surprisingly accurate as well. Didn't do anything distance or from a bench but all the rounds hit the milk jugs from around 10 to 15 yards at a good rate. I'm actually really impressed. I'll need to try some different loads and some defense rounds before i'm totally sold but a real pleasant surpise and very familiar in the hand.
Expensive, but excellent: Nighthawk Custom They're available in .45, 9mm, or .40 as well, and there's a new 9mm specific model, the Ladyhawk (also available without the "Ladyhawk" inscription!).
Best, Jon
I'm looking into a 9mm 1911 as well but for different reasons. I'm considering a Wilson CQB in 9mm largely due to their excellent customer service. My hope is that if I have issues they will be able to make it right/work.
I'm also considering a, significantly less expensive, STI. My hope there is that years of building game guns in 9mm will mean that they have learned a thing or two. Thinking of a Trojan but can't stand that adjustable rear sight. The Legacy at least has a Novak cut so I could ditch that sight, but the price is getting kind of high.
My ultimate goal would be to find a $1k 9mm 1911 that runs (and if I have to use one specific brand of mag to make it run I will) on low-recoil subsonic ammo. I'm not sure that it exists though.
I'm also considering a, significantly less expensive, STI. My hope there is that years of building game guns in 9mm will mean that they have learned a thing or two. Thinking of a Trojan but can't stand that adjustable rear sight. The Legacy at least has a Novak cut so I could ditch that sight, but the price is getting kind of high.
My ultimate goal would be to find a $1k 9mm 1911 that runs (and if I have to use one specific brand of mag to make it run I will) on low-recoil subsonic ammo. I'm not sure that it exists though.
If I have to buy a 9mm 1911 today, I would buy the STI Trojan. Two friends of mine have custom 9mm 1911s built to their specs and they picked up the 9mm Trojan as "back up" to their primary guns. They end up more impressed with the Trojan and enjoy shooting them as much or more than their much higher priced customs.
As for recoil, even those hard kicking 115gr. Winchester white box is controllable. CCI Blazer 115gr. aluminum cased ammos are even softer to shoot.
What don't you like about the adjustable sight? They appear to be rugged in the 4 guns I've seen. There is a fixed sight to replace those Bomar clones if you really can't stand them.
I just see no purpose in an adjustable sight for my uses, and as such it is extra parts to break that offer no benefit to balance that out.
I did see that the Trojan is offered with a fixed rear for no charge. Wonder if I can scare up a picture of one.
Frankly, there's a lot of stuff about the STIs that I could do with out (the full length guide rod is another one) but might be able to overlook if the thing runs reliably.
I'm mostly interested in cycling sub-sonics so I only have to stock one kind of 9mm and not a Starburst pack of different ammo for different guns. I'd like to be able to buy 10k rounds of one kind of 9mm and have it function in everything.
I'm pretty happy with my Trojan. It didn't come without issues, I didn't send it back to STI as I local 1911 smith is a friend of mine. He worked out off the quirks now it runs reliably.
I swapped out the FLGR for GI plug and guide from Ed Brown.
Best magazines I found are the ones shipped with the gun. YMMV.
I did see that the Trojan is offered with a fixed rear for no charge. Wonder if I can scare up a picture of one.
Here, I scared one up for you. The rear was a Heinie for the Novak dovetail. The gun was hardchrome by the owner.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/STI_1_.JPG
It was one that I let slip through my hand. A buddy was selling it for $800 and at that time I didn't have the money. The one that got away.
There's a guy on Gunsamerica selling Trojans (all calibers) for $937 shipped. Decent price?
Yes. Even better if he pays shipping.
Got a reply and he's no longer stocking the 9mms. :(
Check Dawson precision for sti stuff
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.