View Full Version : St Louis falling apart...police shoot unarmed black teen...now face armed black teens
Eurodriver
08-13-14, 06:18
What a mess. Why do people think because you're unarmed the police cannot shoot you?
7.62WildBill
08-13-14, 06:31
The point that jumps out at me from all this is the way the MSM portrays the rioters in Fergusson versus the protestors at the Bundy Ranch. The peaceful (but well armed) protesters at the ranch were characterized as "domestic terrorists", but the actions of the violent (looting and shooting at police helicopters) protesters have been minimalized, marginalized, and even justified by the Leftists in the media.
Apricotshot
08-13-14, 06:32
Because most people are stupid. Who live in thier own little bubbles and know everything about law enforcement from watching movies and TV.
.46caliber
08-13-14, 07:00
This all started Saturday afternoon, I'm surprised it just now made it here.
"Eyewitness accounts" have been varied on the initial shooting. One states that the officer shot the 18 year old in the back. Looting and violent protests have been happening not only in Ferguson where the first shooting happened, but in other areas not even adjacent to the small municipality.
Personally, I'm waiting for the ME/coroner report. It wouldn't look good if the kid was shot in the back.
Last night, 4 men armed arrived at a protest. Shots fired. Police respond. One man fled scene and fired at police, maybe a different man. They returned fire, stopped perp and recovered his handgun.
I'm a 30-40 min. drive from the initial location. No trouble has made it this far yet.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
BoringGuy45
08-13-14, 07:09
What a mess. Why do people think because you're unarmed the police cannot shoot you?
Generally they can't. But when you push an officer getting out of his car back into the car, then try and go for his gun and nearly succeed in getting it, you're now attempting to murder the officer and he has the right to use deadly force to protect himself.
Look I don't know what happened, because I wasn't there. Hopefully whatever agency is conducting the investigation will do its job. They are reporting that this kid tried to take the officers pistol, I guess homie didn't want to take a ride?
If anyone tries to take my weapon from me (on duty or off), they have entered into a world of pain.
p.s. if this wasn't a good shoot, I hope those involved are dealt with accordingly by the legal system.
.46caliber
08-13-14, 07:13
There was word that the FBI had shown up to investigate, but I've not heard that verified. I don't know why they would investigate a small local dept. shooting.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Voodoo_Man
08-13-14, 07:25
There was word that the FBI had shown up to investigate, but I've not heard that verified. I don't know why they would investigate a small local dept. shooting.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Why did they look into zimmerman? The DOJ seems to get involved in things that do not require attention of such a large agency.
I will wait to see what the ME as well as the investigation finds.
Not saying its always ok, but being shot in the back is not automatically wrong.
Crow Hunter
08-13-14, 07:27
I listened to a report about this yesterday on NPR on the way home from work.
The gist:
It is unfair that the general public including police officers see young black men as dangerous and violent and respond with undue force against them out of fear. We are going to protest this fact by rioting, looting, and other dangerous/violent things to increase the public's fear...:suicide:
That will definintely show the public that they have the wrong impression of young black men.
Won't it?
I do the same thing. When I go to engineering meetings with people up North, just to show that I am not a Redneck Hick from the South, I wear overalls, a dirty wife beater shirt, no shoes, a straw hat with a Rebel flag on it and speak in an unintelligible drawl while interspersing racist remarks in every other sentence.
Works for me all the time....
You don't change peoples minds by reinforcing stereotypes.:nono:
.46caliber
08-13-14, 07:47
Why did they look into zimmerman? The DOJ seems to get involved in things that do not require attention of such a large agency.
I will wait to see what the ME as well as the investigation finds.
Not saying its always ok, but being shot in the back is not automatically wrong.
I would tend to agree. No matter the final outcome, at this point all involved will come out at some loss.
My hat's off to the officers of surrounding municipalities and the County dept. who have stepped up to prevent further destruction of businesses and the community. There have also been community members who have volunteered and cleaned up some of the trashed businesses.
There's a small chain of a family owned tire and wheel shops that had a location there. It was destroyed in about an hour's time, caught on surveillance can. People showed up the next morning to cleanup and in less than 24 hours it has been cleaned and boarded up ready for reconstruction.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
There was word that the FBI had shown up to investigate, but I've not heard that verified. I don't know why they would investigate a small local dept. shooting.
Potential civil rights violation of protected class.
I listened to a report about this yesterday on NPR on the way home from work.
The gist:
It is unfair that the general public including police officers see young black men as dangerous and violent and respond with undue force against them out of fear. We are going to protest this fact by rioting, looting, and other dangerous/violent things to increase the public's fear...:suicide:
That will definintely show the public that they have the wrong impression of young black men.
Won't it?
I do the same thing. When I go to engineering meetings with people up North, just to show that I am not a Redneck Hick from the South, I wear overalls, a dirty wife beater shirt, no shoes, a straw hat with a Rebel flag on it and speak in an unintelligible drawl while interspersing racist remarks in every other sentence.
Works for me all the time....
You don't change peoples minds by reinforcing stereotypes.:nono:
Well, we all know stereotypes exist for a reason.
At anyrate destroying property and looting is the best way to go about protesting something, obviously.
This sh** is stupid..
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/13/846cd2b9ebda9ed409d97400561850b5.jpg
Potential civil rights violation of protected class.
Exactly. The FBI, in conjunction with the DOJ's Civil Rights Division, has been directed by Eric Holder to investigate possible violations of the deceased's civil rights.
The kid's father has come out and publicly deplored the violence while asking for a complete investigation of the incident, rather than fanning the flames. So far the Dad sounds like a decent man. Let the investigation run it's course. Fighting the police officer for his gun is just a bad freakin idea....
I know that a large percentage of young people think they can argue when given a lawful order by the police.
Hey, they argue with mom and dad, why not the police?
Sorry, you don't get to argue with the police or step into an argument because you're sticking up for your friend.
Guess, what?
You'll deservedly lose every time...
The point that jumps out at me from all this is the way the MSM portrays the rioters in Fergusson versus the protestors at the Bundy Ranch. The peaceful (but well armed) protesters at the ranch were characterized as "domestic terrorists", but the actions of the violent (looting and shooting at police helicopters) protesters have been minimalized, marginalized, and even justified by the Leftists in the media.
.... spoken like a true back-woods racist from the south-east... I'll bet you have one of those confederate flags in your pickup truck too. :D
Don't forget... the defining core trait of a Liberal is ...... NEVER rationalize. Left can have a right. Right can have a wrong..... But left can NEVER have a wrong.
I know that a large percentage of young people think they can argue when given a lawful order by the police.
I think the issue is that the Police will in cases issue unlawful orders. You may still lose, but it won't be deservedly. It will be an unjust loss that should be followed up by legal and just actions. Not by further illegal actions and orders from either side.
Police officers aren't the ones destroying the black community. How many fatherless families are there in the black community? How many blacks shoot one another every day? How many sell highly addictive drugs to one another? How many abortions are performed on innocent, unarmed victims? You get the idea...
This all started Saturday afternoon, I'm surprised it just now made it here.
"Eyewitness accounts" have been varied on the initial shooting. One states that the officer shot the 18 year old in the back. Looting and violent protests have been happening not only in Ferguson where the first shooting happened, but in other areas not even adjacent to the small municipality.
Personally, I'm waiting for the ME/coroner report. It wouldn't look good if the kid was shot in the back.
Last night, 4 men armed arrived at a protest. Shots fired. Police respond. One man fled scene and fired at police, maybe a different man. They returned fire, stopped perp and recovered his handgun.
I'm a 30-40 min. drive from the initial location. No trouble has made it this far yet.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
I'll wait 'till the fact patterns are known also, but the locals will simply claim it's all fixed by "the man" and loot/riot on. Once that spark is ignited and flame lit, facts no longer apply to the justification of anarchy. So, facts really don't matter beyond a point in terms of impacting the behavior and outcome of angry mobs.
montanadave
08-13-14, 09:31
I'll wait 'till the fact patterns are known also, but the locals will simply claim it's all fixed by "the man" and loot/riot on. Once that spark is ignited and flame lit, facts no longer apply to the justification of anarchy. So, facts really don't matter beyond a point in terms of impacting the behavior and outcome of angry mobs.
What the hell? They don't have fire hydrants in St. Louis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZdDrDbth0g
Police officers aren't the ones destroying the black community.
If you are addressing me... in no way was I suggesting that the Police are destroying anyone's community.
Whether the officer was justified in using deadly force or not, that does not give anyone the right to destroy and/or steal the property of others.
This subject probably hasn't been brought up yet, because it only leads to the taboo discussion of how rotten the majority of the black community is. No matter how many of them are killed by each other via their various methods, it only takes one death at the hands of someone of a different race to entice them into loot/riot mode. Then, the MSM comes in to explain that it is all because of racism and how the black community doesn't get the same chances that everyone else gets. Blah, blah, blah...it's sickening and despicable, and for the most part this thuggish, hoodrat portion of this country have only became a nuisance to the people of this nation via crime, welfare, illegitimate children, destruction of infrastructure and property value, and rejection of education. I could go on and on, and it is for that fact that this subject is taboo, and should probably be left alone.
When the investigation is over, the officer should either be praised for his actions or prosecuted. It's a pretty clear cut situation, and nowhere does looting or rioting contribute to anything productive.
If you are addressing me... in no way was I suggesting that the Police are destroying anyone's community.
Sorry for the confusion, but my post was meant as an in general type of response to the thread, and not directed at you personally.
ETA - I just read the first page and I think we were actually typing at the same time.
All of the race instigators (yes you Al Sharpton) are loving this though. They don't care about black on black, or Hispanic on Hispanic, or white on white violence. They only care when they can make a buck off of it....or stay relevant in the media.
But the folks breaking into stores and stealing rims don't care either way. They were simply looking for an easy excuse to steal shit.
But the folks breaking into stores and stealing rims don't care either way. They were simply looking for an easy excuse to steal shit.
Therein lies the problem. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other civil rights activists should be very vocal and critical of the rioters.
Such wonderful people...
‘Loot … and rob them, not your own'; Twitter users advise black people to loot white neighborhoods
http://twitchy.com/2014/08/11/loot-and-rob-them-not-your-own-twitter-users-advise-black-people-to-loot-white-neighborhoods/
Just a snippet...
If you're gonna riot and kill people at least kill WHITE people. Why attack your own people?—
H. Don Datta (@HollowDaGatMan) August 11, 2014
Heard news reports today that majority of people arrested for looting were not even from Ferguson. They had road tripped on in for some looting fun.
Eurodriver
08-13-14, 10:39
Such wonderful people...
Just a snippet...
People can spew whatever they want on Twitter. The ones on the ground know that going into a white (or a Korean) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots#Riots_and_Korean-Americans) neighborhood with torches and weapons is a really really bad idea...especially in the Midwest.
Alpha Sierra
08-13-14, 10:50
People can spew whatever they want on Twitter. The ones on the ground know that going into a white (or a Korean) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots#Riots_and_Korean-Americans) neighborhood with torches and weapons is a really really bad idea...especially in the Midwest.
+1
Every loser in the world is tough online. Let's see you on my street.......
.46caliber
08-13-14, 10:54
Therein lies the problem. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other civil rights activists should be very vocal and critical of the rioters.
Thus far, the family of Michael Brown have been the most vocal about stopping the rioting and looting.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
montanadave
08-13-14, 11:10
This subject probably hasn't been brought up yet, because it only leads to the taboo discussion of how rotten the majority of the black community is.
That isn't a "taboo" discussion; it's simply false and ridiculously racist.
So enough of that shit, eh?
I listened to a report about this yesterday on NPR on the way home from work.
The gist:
It is unfair that the general public including police officers see young black men as dangerous and violent and respond with undue force against them out of fear. We are going to protest this fact by rioting, looting, and other dangerous/violent things to increase the public's fear...:suicide:
That will definintely show the public that they have the wrong impression of young black men.
Won't it?
I do the same thing. When I go to engineering meetings with people up North, just to show that I am not a Redneck Hick from the South, I wear overalls, a dirty wife beater shirt, no shoes, a straw hat with a Rebel flag on it and speak in an unintelligible drawl while interspersing racist remarks in every other sentence.
Works for me all the time....
You don't change peoples minds by reinforcing stereotypes.:nono:
Protesting is one thing. Looting and burning down your own neighborhood completely discredits their cause.
That isn't a "taboo" discussion; it's simply false and ridiculously racist.
So enough of that shit, eh?
Sometime things go unsaid that need to be said. Everyone pussyfoots around the race issue. Stereotypes exist for a reason despite what the Progressives tell us. I see no problem with what TCBK posted. The black community is it's own worst enemy & the Progressives they vote for that give them a false sense of entitlement aren't doing them any favors.
brickboy240
08-13-14, 11:45
He is in Montana. There cannot be more than 10 black people in all of Montana!
Come live in a larger, major urban area and THEN see how you view this culture.
-brickboy240
Outlander Systems
08-13-14, 11:56
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-04VPecNXN7A/UJ7GOVDCriI/AAAAAAAAALg/h5UdK7UO11c/s1600/fsa.png
7.62WildBill
08-13-14, 12:16
.... spoken like a true back-woods racist from the south-east... I'll bet you have one of those confederate flags in your pickup truck too. :D
Don't forget... the defining core trait of a Liberal is ...... NEVER rationalize. Left can have a right. Right can have a wrong..... But left can NEVER have a wrong.
Well, you got one thing right, I do have a pick-up truck. This is the first time in my life I've been labeled a racist. I don't think any of my life-long friends who's skin is a different color than mine would agree with you. Or my neighbors (of ten years) on either side of my house who have different colored skin than me. Oh, and I lived in the North (Chicago, early 1990's, back when the violence was much worse) for almost as long as I've been in the South.
Allow me to clarify my point. These two groups seem to be held to different standards by the media. Consider these two articles:
https://news.vice.com/article/the-ferguson-riots-are-not-a-shift-away-from-peace-theyre-a-challenge-to-violence
Quote: "To be sure, I am not lionizing all rioters. I will happily designate the cops as the villains in this scenario, and every scenario in which armed forces kill with impunity and use authority to harass, racially profile, and oppress. But that does not entail an unmitigated allegiance with every rioter, arsonist, or looter. My point, rather, is that I do not think this sort of disruptive activity should be demonized outright. Of course, riots can be racist, riots can be homophobic — they are not essentially one thing or another."
Also from Vice News:https://news.vice.com/article/an-armed-standoff-in-nevada-is-only-the-beginning-for-americas-right-wing-militias
Quote: "For right-wing militias and paramilitary groups founded around a collective paranoid belief that the federal government is just looking for an excuse to impose martial law, images of armed federal agents forcibly seizing cows basically means it's DEFCON 1.
By Saturday, as many as 1,000 anti-BLM protestors from as far away as Virginia, New Hampshire, and Georgia had set up camp in Bunkerville, an arid patch of land where the BLM was rounding up the Bundy cattle.
Packing handguns and assault rifles, the protesters carried signs featuring slogans like “Tyranny Is Alive,” “Where's the Justice?” and “Militia Sighn In [sic]," and many said they were prepared for a shoot-out with the federal government. The mood was such that even Glenn Beck was wary of the crowd, announcing on his show that “there's about 10 or 15 percent of the people who are talking about this online that are truly frightening."
“We were prepared to do whatever it takes to protect their cattle, and their ranch, and their home,” said protester Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff who is on the board of Oath Keepers, a militia founded by a former Ron Paul aide and made up mostly of current and former US military personnel and law enforcement. “The government was prepared to do anything, including shooting at unarmed people." (On Monday Mack told Fox News that organizers had been “strategizing to put all the women up front” in a firefight so that the image of the BLM shooting women would be televised.)"
So, the author of the first piece states, "I do not think this sort of disruptive activity should be demonized outright." But the author of the second piece sole intent is to demonize the Bundy supporters, "The mood was such that even Glenn Beck was wary of the crowd, announcing on his show that “there's about 10 or 15 percent of the people who are talking about this online that are truly frightening." 10 to 15% of people talking about ANYTHING online are truly frightening!
It seems to me that first article about Missouri could be summarized as, "Don't let the violent actions of a few influence your opinion of the group, because their violence may be justifiable." While the second article about Bundy would be something like, "All these people are dangerous, because some of them have threatened to commit violence, which is not justifiable."
montanadave
08-13-14, 12:18
He is in Montana. There cannot be more than 10 black people in all of Montana!
Come live in a larger, major urban area and THEN see how you view this culture.
-brickboy240
You are absolutely correct and I have acknowledged as much in the past. And I have no illusions about how ****ed up things are in black urban areas. But to characterize the majority of the black community as "rotten" is a tad over the top.
Yes, stereotypes exist for a reason. Primarily to illustrate either the best or the worst traits of a particular group of people. But generalizing those stereotypes to all, or even the majority, of any given group is mistaken.
Hopefully whatever agency is conducting the investigation will do its job.
Holder's DOJ and FBI? Yeah right.
Crow Hunter
08-13-14, 12:32
Protesting is one thing. Looting and burning down your own neighborhood completely discredits their cause.
Tell me about it.
If it does turn out that the police officer acted wrongfully they should protest. They should protest very loudly and call attention to the fact that young black men ARE feared by the majority of the US including a lot of black people.
I have experienced this personally even though some of my best friends, including my oldest friend (since kindergarten) is black and I went to a majority black school and work in a company where a significant number of black people work.
I have felt fear because that is what the media portrays, the data of who is commiting crimes demonstrates and unfortunately a large number of black youths seem to want to project.
I honestly am much more likely to jump up a condition when I am approached by a black youth dressed as a thug than I am a greater number of white youths dressed as thugs.
What I don't understand is WHY on Earth is the question always "What are we going to do to try and show more people as racists?" rather than "What can we do to improve the image of our black youth?"
Going around "protesting" by assaulting, burning and looting does not improve anyone's image.:confused:
That is like saying that every time a black person potentially committed a crime the KKK should go around burning crosses in people's yards and firebombing black churches because that will make people think that white people are not racist...:nono:
I don't want to have my heart jump in my chest and have an adrenaline dump and my hand move towards my weapon every time an unknown black kid approaches me in public but right now, that is what happens.
Not because I am a racist but because I am a realist.:mad:
The fix for this is going to have to come from within.
Perhaps it's better to clarify that the community we hold justifiable disdain for is the SCUM community. There are multiple ethnic groups that comprise it. The welfare/SNAP/WIC/Section 8/Medicaid takers, non working, multiple illegitimate child bearing, slovenly dressing, criminal best friends and family member embracing, anti gun Obamunist voting SCUM class. A person of any race and living location can and knows that they should choose to NOT be part of it. I've seen examples of all skin colors who fit the definition of scum class, and despise them equally. However, it is interesting that one particular ethnicity embraces and identifies with it, and that's on them, not someone else pointing it out.
Every U.S. citizen has the right to demonstrate. Every U.S. citizen has the right to protest loudly. Some people feel a natural disaster or a protest gives them a blank check to loot and riot.
There is a solution to minimize this type of criminal activity and race has nothing to do with the solution. Anyone caught in the act of looting and destruction of private property, i.e., breaking windows out of a retail store, defacing someone's home, etc., should have their receipt of public assistance stopped immediately.
During an administrative hearing, if it is proven an individual actively engaged in looting and/or destruction of property not their own, they should be flagged in the public aid computer system. They should not be eligible to receive grants, government secured loans or public assistance for the rest of their natural life.
During an administrative hearing, if it is proven an individual actively engaged in looting and/or destruction of property not their own, they should be flagged in the public aid computer system. They should not be eligible to receive grants, government secured loans or public assistance for the rest of their natural life.
This statement makes you a racist in today's society because, guess what, most of the people you just described will be black. So even though you think you spoke from a position of rational thought, and even though your idea has significant merit, it will never fly. Because it won't affect white people equally. So by the progressive definition that makes it a racist idea.
:blink:
This statement makes you a racist in today's society because, guess what, most of the people you just described will be black. So even though you think you spoke from a position of rational thought, and even though your idea has significant merit, it will never fly. Because it won't affect white people equally. So by the progressive definition that makes it a racist idea.
So why must we listen to what the "progressive" idea is, exactly? Why do we go by their definitions? Why do we even give a flying **** what they think is racist, or even the idea that somehow being a "racist" is worse than being a criminal, a loser, spouse abuser, etc? Who was the moron that put them in charge, and keeps letting them be in charge? Not me.
So why must we listen to what the "progressive" idea is, exactly? Why do we go by their definitions? Why do we even give a flying **** what they think is racist, or even the idea that somehow being a "racist" is worse than being a criminal, a loser, spouse abuser, etc? Who was the moron that put them in charge, and keeps letting them be in charge? Not me.
Ask Montanadave. He may have the answers you seek.
So why must we listen to what the "progressive" idea is, exactly? Why do we go by their definitions? Why do we even give a flying **** what they think is racist, or even the idea that somehow being a "racist" is worse than being a criminal, a loser, spouse abuser, etc? Who was the moron that put them in charge, and keeps letting them be in charge? Not me.
I don't think we should and my comments were made with tongue firmly in cheek. Unfortunately my candidates keep getting defeated and the oxygen thieves keep getting their supporters into office.
7.62WildBill
08-13-14, 14:14
.... spoken like a true back-woods racist from the south-east... I'll bet you have one of those confederate flags in your pickup truck too. :D
Don't forget... the defining core trait of a Liberal is ...... NEVER rationalize. Left can have a right. Right can have a wrong..... But left can NEVER have a wrong.
It was pointed out to me (via PM) that you were joking, and after rereading your post I noticed the smile emoticon. My apologies.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-04VPecNXN7A/UJ7GOVDCriI/AAAAAAAAALg/h5UdK7UO11c/s1600/fsa.png
This needs to be made in sticker packs and placed on every car sporting obama bumper stickers.
This needs to be made in sticker packs and placed on every car sporting obama bumper stickers.
I'll take 50 of 'em
MorphCross
08-13-14, 15:11
Just gonna drop this here:http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news/2014/08/12/gun-stores-see-sales-spike-in-wake-of-ferguson.html
Living near KC, MO: http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kansas-city-mo-police-officer-dances-in-the-street-with-local-kids
You are absolutely correct and I have acknowledged as much in the past. And I have no illusions about how ****ed up things are in black urban areas. But to characterize the majority of the black community as "rotten" is a tad over the top.
Yes, stereotypes exist for a reason. Primarily to illustrate either the best or the worst traits of a particular group of people. But generalizing those stereotypes to all, or even the majority, of any given group is mistaken.
As a majority would be greater than or equal to 51%, I stand by my statement as the majority is rotten and should be thrown out. This doesn't mean that I am racist, because there are plenty of other colored nuisances that need to go as well. It just so happens that the black community is the focus of this story.
I still believe that this conversation is considered taboo in this country, because no matter how many people feel this way, no one wants to talk about it in public from being worried about being labeled a racist. This is a subject that gets me excited, so I shall proceed to bow out of this and keep my further comments to myself.
I saw a youtube post this morning of a black guy going off on the black community over this crap. Had to admire the man's courage as he called them ALL out...
Edit: THIS dude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U
montanadave
08-13-14, 15:51
I shall proceed to bow out of this and keep my further comments to myself.
And, seeing as how I don't have a dog in this fight, I think I will do the same.
My apologies for going off half-cocked. Folks living in different circumstances in different areas of the country tend to see events through their own set of eyeglasses and the view is not always the sharpest.
If the discussion was about the American Indian community, many might find some of my observations less than charitable.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 15:51
This all started Saturday afternoon, I'm surprised it just now made it here.
I have been waiting to see a thread and surprised it took this long. But since we are here . . .
First things first, once again the great American double standard and hypocrisy of “black America” rears its ugly head. Two weeks ago in St. Louis, MO a grandmother was shot dead in front of her three grandchildren as they walked home. Because the victims were all black and the two murder suspects are black everything is right with the world. But if a black man is shot (yes he is a man not a ****ing child) by a white person then its Jesse, Al, and the gang finding the nearest camera, Holder gets involved and sends in his civil rights Gestapo, its only a matter of time before Obama interrupts everyone’s evening TV schedule to make a special speech about people that could pass for his sons, oh and the "black community" in the immediate area conduct hate crimes against whites and or other non-blacks, loot, riot, et al.
Juliette Cleveland-Davis Killed By Stray Bullet in Front of 3 Young Grandchildren (Homicide 71)
Incident: Homicide
Location: 1900 block of Hodiamont
Date/Time: 7/30/14 @ 19:45
Victim #1: Juliette Cleveland-Davis, 46-year old black female of the 5900 block of
Highland
Victim #2: 7-year old black female
Victim #3: 5-year old black male
Victim #4: 4-year old black male
Suspect(s): Two black males
Officers responded to the above location for a "shooting" and upon arrival, located Victim #1 lying outside on the ground, unconscious. Victim #1 had sustained a gunshot wound to the chest and was conveyed to a hospital, where she was pronounced deceased. Investigation revealed Victim #1 was walking north on Hodiamont with her three grandchildren when two suspects began firing gunshots at a group of people. These subjects then returned gunfire and during the exchange, Victim #1 was struck. The three juvenile victims were located uninjured and released to their parents/guardians. The investigation is ongoing.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2014/08/juliette_cleveland-davis_killed_by_stray_bullet_in_front_of_3_young_grandchildren.php
The truth of the matter is no one living in this community gives a shit about the guy the police shot, neither does Jesse, Al, Holder, or Obama. The people looting don't give a shit about him just like they didn't give a shit about Trayvon Martin or Rodney King. They riot because they have been taught they are owed by society. They themselves are racist, hate whites, hate all other non-blacks and when incidents like this happen it gives them an excuse to act.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 16:09
Check out these Twitter feeds:
‘Loot … and rob them, not your own'; Twitter users advise black people to loot white neighborhoods
http://twitchy.com/2014/08/11/loot-and-rob-them-not-your-own-twitter-users-advise-black-people-to-loot-white-neighborhoods/
Police officers aren't the ones destroying the black community. How many fatherless families are there in the black community? How many blacks shoot one another every day? How many sell highly addictive drugs to one another? How many abortions are performed on innocent, unarmed victims? You get the idea...
Actually abortions help out the other problems.
What this thread needs is a little James Manning. Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUohFqmGDwk
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 16:23
What this thread needs is a little James Manning. Enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUohFqmGDwk
I always enjoy me some Dr. Manning. I always wondered why he is never invited to speak at the BET Awards or any NAACP meetings lol.
Voodoo_Man
08-13-14, 16:27
I think this thread is going in the wrong direction...lets get it back on track.
Anyone have a link to the dead guy's criminal record? I read something about him having one but did not see it anywhere. Does anyone have his DOB? I could probably try to look up the dockets for that area and see if he's in there (unless someone else wants to).
Has anyone seen the report about the officer being hospitalized with several face swelling/bruising? What impact on the story/situation will that make?
I'm choosing to wait on more details from the investigation. So many different stories going around so you know how the grapevine works. I am curious why it seems they didn't take a statement from the other young man that was part in the incident till 4 days afterwards. I also heard that they allowed the officer to drive away in his patrol vehicle which is strange since its part of the crime scene. Course that's 2nd hand info so you know how that goes.
Heard Crump on the radio referencing the trajectory of the shots which gave the feeling he was referencing the autopsy results though he didnt confirm that.
Wish there was actual film footage of this one to squash the misinformation and speculation. I'm betting their chief wishes they were using the cameras they are reported to have but aren't using. Cameras help provide clarity in such cloudy situations.
Actually abortions help out the other problems.
I agree, maybe I worded my response poorly. What I meant was that there are thousands of black kids, or potential black kids, being sucked up a vacuum everyday and no one bats an eye.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 16:42
"...there are thousands of black kids, or potential black kids, being sucked up a vacuum everyday and no one bats an eye.
But by God don't you shoot my bebe in the commision of a felony!
I agree, maybe I worded my response poorly. What I meant was that there are thousands of black kids, or potential black kids, being sucked up a vacuum everyday and no one bats an eye.
I don't know what's worse. Having an unfortunate black baby sucked out of the womb, or bringing him into this world only to experience life without a father, being indoctrinated by the Progressives to feel superior to other races simply because he's black & everyone owes him something, be encouraged to jump on the entitlement train & accept gov't handouts funded by other people's hard work, have shitty role models who will teach him to disrespect women & anyone else for that matter, have a high probability of spending a large portion of his life in prison for theft, violence, rape & murder, falling victim to drug addiction, etc...
platoonDaddy
08-13-14, 17:32
As with the Indians, the government has enslaved generations of Americans with the welfare state! We are in harms way.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-13-14, 17:38
I don't know what's worse. Having an unfortunate black baby sucked out of the womb, or bringing him into this world only to experience life without a father, being indoctrinated by the Progressives to feel superior to other races simply because he's black & everyone owes him something, be encouraged to jump on the entitlement train & accept gov't handouts funded by other people's hard work, have shitty role models who will teach him to disrespect women & anyone else for that matter, have a high probability of spending a large portion of his life in prison for theft, violence, rape & murder, falling victim to drug addiction, etc...
Not being given the chance to be a decent human being is obviously worse.
Anyone have a link to the dead guy's criminal record?
That would be good information to have for this discussion. I would also like to know if he has any gang affiliation.
If the 18 year old man who was shot does not have a criminal record or gang affiliation, I would like to know that as well.
.46caliber
08-13-14, 17:46
... its only a matter of time before Obama interrupts everyone’s evening TV schedule to make a special speech about people that could pass for his...
Already issued a written statement, aired this AM on local news. Condolences to Michael Brown's family. Urge to the community to express emotions peacefully or something along that line.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Anyone have a link to the dead guy's criminal record? I read something about him having one but did not see it anywhere. Does anyone have his DOB? I could probably try to look up the dockets for that area and see if he's in there (unless someone else wants to).
Word of warning for anyone contemplating running they deceased's record at work:
I'm betting that NCIC, CJIS, and the Missouri state equivalent have those records tagged, and will follow up with anyone who tries to run them, to check on what official use the requestor has for them. Court proceedings and records are probably not under lock and key, as they're public record, but I wouldn't go much further.
.46caliber
08-13-14, 18:19
Word of warning for anyone contemplating running they deceased's record at work:
I'm betting that NCIC, CJIS, and the Missouri state equivalent have those records tagged, and will follow up with anyone who tries to run them, to check on what official use the requestor has for them. Court proceedings and records are probably not under lock and key, as they're public record, but I wouldn't go much further.
With our current Governor, I'd agree. He's a piece of work.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
MorphCross
08-13-14, 18:26
With our current Governor, I'd agree. He's a piece of work.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Still better than Carnahan or Holden.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/breaking-police-chief-releases-cops-side-story-michael-brown-shooting/
Police are saying that the officer sustained "serious" facial injuries and that the shooting took place inside the patrol vehicle.
Word of warning for anyone contemplating running they deceased's record at work:
I'm betting that NCIC, CJIS, and the Missouri state equivalent have those records tagged, and will follow up with anyone who tries to run them, to check on what official use the requestor has for them. Court proceedings and records are probably not under lock and key, as they're public record, but I wouldn't go much further.
That's illegal to do anyway. And anyone stupid enough to abuse their NCIC access usually gets shit canned immediately.
Yeah, seen it happen. Had a guy in my area use it as a "Dial a Date". Didn't work out so well.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 19:21
Yeah, seen it happen. Had a guy in my area use it as a "Dial a Date". Didn't work out so well.
We have had one or two over the years attempt to stalk an ex or their ex's new lover. Quick way to end a career. Had a buddy who was an MP in the USMC, he knew a guy that ran Clinton's plates on The Beast as he rolled through post, he was relieved and never heard from again lol.
Voodoo_Man
08-13-14, 19:38
Word of warning for anyone contemplating running they deceased's record at work:
I'm betting that NCIC, CJIS, and the Missouri state equivalent have those records tagged, and will follow up with anyone who tries to run them, to check on what official use the requestor has for them. Court proceedings and records are probably not under lock and key, as they're public record, but I wouldn't go much further.
I am talking about public criminal (court) dockets. Nothing you need to login for.
.46caliber
08-13-14, 20:07
There's chatter on FB about a not-so-clean record, so maybe it's out there. Haven't seen anything official.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Generally they can't. But when you push an officer getting out of his car back into the car, then try and go for his gun and nearly succeed in getting it, you're now attempting to murder the officer and he has the right to use deadly force to protect himself.
But....but...but....."my baby never hurt nobody".....
The blatant media bias is shocking, I shouldn't be surprised, but every once and awhile I still am. And of course the usual suspects making it a race issue. If an unarmed white 18 year old tried to fight a black police officer for his gun and got shot for his efforts we wouldn't hear a peep on the news about it.
Basically this is just another looting / vandalism opportunity and a chance to demonstrate racial hatred towards business owners. St. Louis needs some Koreans.
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/s720x720/10371527_243372379203634_8062334269758997568_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/l/t1.0-9/10400773_243621329178739_8369055153821100818_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10302050_243621435845395_2848048698753133239_n.jpg
MorphCross
08-13-14, 21:08
Basically this is just another looting / vandalism opportunity and a chance to demonstrate racial hatred towards business owners. St. Louis needs some Koreans.
While it may not be Korean business owners...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstlouis.cbslocal.com%2F2014%2F08%2F12%2Fgun-sales-up-across-area%2F&ei=lBnsU5CQDome8gHQoIDoBQ&usg=AFQjCNGLYCmdPVn5o801Cg-PLdRc-p0mAw&sig2=-_hi5Sf9otPy3nuZIVUKCw&bvm=bv.72938740,d.b2U
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 21:19
Basically this is just another looting / vandalism opportunity and a chance to demonstrate racial hatred towards business owners. St. Louis needs some Koreans.
ARMED GUARDS WITH AR-15′s Save North St. Louis Businesses From Looters
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/StLouisriotstattooparlor_zpsc3373791.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/StLouisriotstattooparlor_zpsc3373791.jpg.html)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/armed-guards-at-strip-mall-save-north-st-louis-businesses-from-looters/
While it may not be Korean business owners...https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstlouis.cbslocal.com%2F2014%2F08%2F12%2Fgun-sales-up-across-area%2F&ei=lBnsU5CQDome8gHQoIDoBQ&usg=AFQjCNGLYCmdPVn5o801Cg-PLdRc-p0mAw&sig2=-_hi5Sf9otPy3nuZIVUKCw&bvm=bv.72938740,d.b2U
It's nice that there are some new gun owners now but it is disappointing to see so many woefully unprepared.
Moose-Knuckle
08-13-14, 21:30
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstlouis.cbslocal.com%2F2014%2F08%2F12%2Fgun-sales-up-across-area%2F&ei=lBnsU5CQDome8gHQoIDoBQ&usg=AFQjCNGLYCmdPVn5o801Cg-PLdRc-p0mAw&sig2=-_hi5Sf9otPy3nuZIVUKCw&bvm=bv.72938740,d.b2U
That reminds me of story my father told me once.
Back during the unrest of the 60's the city he was living in at the time was targeted for a "race riot". A well-known and respected detective in the community went down to the local hardware store and witnessed lines of people (whites) buying up every handgun, rifle, shotgun, and box of ammo in the place. He then went to "community leaders" and told them what he saw and that if the same kind of shit was pulled there that they would have a blood bath on their hands. Those "leaders" stopped the buses of provocateurs outside the city limits and turned them around. A crisis was averted. My dad at the time was in his early twenties and bought himself an M1 Carbine in which to protect his parents’ home in the event riots broke out.
Anonymous Releases Police Audio From Day Of Mike Brown Murder:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-13/anonymous-releases-ferguson-police-audio-day-mike-brown-murder
Massive SWAT Presence In Ferguson Unleash Tear Gas & Rubber Bullets: "Go Home Or Be Subject To Arrest - This Is Not Open For Discussion":http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-13/ferguson-reignites-police-shoot-2nd-man-obamas-response-insultingly-inadequate
It was pointed out to me (via PM) that you were joking, and after rereading your post I noticed the smile emoticon. My apologies.
Oh no problem, I'm just getting back to follow ups... yeah, definitely joking.... sorry, I figured you would see the laugh and see what State I am from... although VA has all but lost it's attachment to the south-east.
While we don't have all the details it seems strange that Ferguson requested assistance for crowd control with no mention of the OIS even when asked about it? Also hard to understand how there was an OIS and no EMS was called till much later. Waiting to here more details as this all unfolds.
BoringGuy45
08-13-14, 22:42
According to that article, another person was shot by police. The article did its best to make it still look like the officer's fault even though it readily admits that the guy was pointing a gun at the cop. Obama is calling for "reflection and understanding." So typical.
And for every liberal who says, "Well, you have to understand why they're doing this..." I say yes, I completely understand why they're doing this, but it isn't for the reason you think. They're doing this because they are a bunch of selfish, entitled pricks who believe that they should be held accountable for nothing, including killing police officers. There's no excuse for rioting and looting. Zero. None. I don't want to hear government cover up or racist cops. If you have a problem, you handle it like civilized people, not by burning down the city and killing innocent people. That's America for you: You can live off the taxpayer dime at a rate that pays more than most entry level jobs, deflect any criticism of you or your behavior as racist and/or insensitive, have the president and attorney general in your corner, and still declare that you are being kept down and oppressed.
Ha! They gassed the Al-Jazeera crew....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=720_l3dgbYA
MorphCross
08-13-14, 23:12
While we don't have all the details it seems strange that Ferguson requested assistance for crowd control with no mention of the OIS even when asked about it? Also hard to understand how there was an OIS and no EMS was called till much later. Waiting to here more details as this all unfolds.
As with anything, we will wait for the truth to be revealed. I would seriously question a site with an agenda and the possibility of "selective editing".
ARMED GUARDS WITH AR-15′s Save North St. Louis Businesses From Looters
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/StLouisriotstattooparlor_zpsc3373791.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/StLouisriotstattooparlor_zpsc3373791.jpg.html)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/armed-guards-at-strip-mall-save-north-st-louis-businesses-from-looters/
Good for them, but I have to wonder what you could loot from a tattoo shop.
"Hey man. I'm getting me one of them skull tattoos."
:lol:
MorphCross
08-14-14, 00:21
Good for them, but I have to wonder what you could loot from a tattoo shop.
"Hey man. I'm getting me one of them skull tattoos."
:lol:
They are located next to an FFL Dealer.
They are located next to an FFL Dealer.
I'm betting they got very favorable terms on those ARs.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 02:26
They are located next to an FFL Dealer.
That along with the fact they prevented the shopping center that both the tattoo parlor and gun shop are in from being torched. Google image search of some of the damage caused by these 02 thieves and you'll see that saved a ton in property damages alone.
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html
Roof Koreans for hire. Much success during L.A. Riots, no looters at our stores. Added bonus: can't be accused of racism, especially if violent mobs are fired upon. Will provide own ammo, but will charge extra for any rounds spent.
Write Winger
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
Voodoo_Man
08-14-14, 05:26
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html
Roof Koreans for hire. Much success during L.A. Riots, no looters at our stores. Added bonus: can't be accused of racism, especially if violent mobs are fired upon. Will provide own ammo, but will charge extra for any rounds spent.
Write Winger
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
Now that is funny.
Eurodriver
08-14-14, 05:50
Good for them, but I have to wonder what you could loot from a tattoo shop.
"Hey man. I'm getting me one of them skull tattoos."
:lol:
Does that guy in the middle have a suppressor?
MorphCross
08-14-14, 05:57
Does that guy in the middle have a suppressor?
Don't you know anything? That's the shoulder thing that goes up!:jester:
On a more serious note, i'm trying to decide if it is an SBR with a Suppressor, or if what i'm seeing is a Sig brace.
Picture is so low quality I'm having a hard time telling if the guy on the far left with the Plate carrier is holding an AK or something else.
The "protestors" are now throwing moltove cocktails at the cops. In addition to being a violation of federal law for possession of a destructive device (which I'm sure Eric Holder will prosecute them for. :rolleyes:), that constitutes deadly force. Hope the police meet force with force.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-gunfight-in-freguson-officers-running-down-street/
27956
I don't think I would be having words with that guy on the left at the Tatoo Parlor, AR or not...
Here's an interesting development...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/wesley-lowery-joe-scarborough_n_5678050.html?cps=gravity
There are even rallys here in VA about this ordeal... multiple ones in fact.
The "protestors" are now throwing moltove cocktails at the cops. In addition to being a violation of federal law for possession of a destructive device (which I'm sure Eric Holder will prosecute them for. :rolleyes:), that constitutes deadly force. Hope the police meet force with force.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-gunfight-in-freguson-officers-running-down-street/
27956
And cops are shooting tear gas canisters at news reporters. http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html
ETA - I'm not justifying anything. Just pointing out there are dicks on both sides of the badge.
Time to fuel up the MRAPs...
The "protestors" are now throwing moltove cocktails at the cops. In addition to being a violation of federal law for possession of a destructive device (which I'm sure Eric Holder will prosecute them for. :rolleyes:), that constitutes deadly force. Hope the police meet force with force.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-gunfight-in-freguson-officers-running-down-street/
27956
Part of me agrees with you but not knowing the whole story it's hard to say yes. We have video on YT from other incidents where the 'good guys' had infiltrated the 'bad guys' and honestly these days once things get elevated to a certain level as this has, I don't trust either side to be honest. This is not to say the front line guys are corrupt... only that someone, if they chose to, could turn things in any direction they want.
Also the police have the ability to exercise a show of faith and back down. The streets belong to the people and to a degree they have been backed into their corner with no where to go. The bussed in looters obviously not a part of that element.
Now if they can unmistakeably shoot the guy that threw the cocktail... I'm ok with that. But to shoot the crowd... that's a different story. This way if it were some sort of setup, the right person dies.
Where to start: "the majority of the black community" really? Any data to support that? It is taboo because statements like that are racist. Secondly, the next time you guys lament that "liberals", the MSM, and minorities just don't get the 2nd Amendment, ask you self what you have done to make them feel welcome in the community. Comments like this, make us all look bad, make it harder to preserve rights, and don't encourage the bridge building that needs to happen to preserve our rights. THe 2nd Amendment is no going to be saved by right of center, straight white men. It is going to be saved by woman, minorities, gays, and others. Your comments make that harder, not easier. Are there huge problems in the black community, yes absolutely. Are there instances where officers deploy lethal force long after they are out of immediate danger? Probably... This kid reached in to the car, and tried to get the officers gun, while the officer was seated and equipped with a retention holster? I suppose that's possible. Isn't it equally possible that the officer continued the fight and used lethal force after he was out of danger? If this was a white kid with a skateboard and a Che shirt in Seattle, would people be calling him a homie or a hood rat? Sort of doubt it.
One other question, from a training perspective: who initiates a contact with an unknown subject while seated in a patrol car.
Secondly, the next time you guys lament that "liberals", the MSM, and minorities just don't get the 2nd Amendment, ask you self what you have done to make them feel welcome in the community.
I can tell you when I was younger and had more of a social network practically everyone I was around was a Liberal. All of my friends. Vietnamese, Indian, White, Korean, Male, Female, Tree huggers... just all over the map. Even the microscopic element of them that were interested in guns ( white woman ) none of them felt like they needed to be invited to anything nor were they wanting of anything. They were who they were. They damn sure weren't outsiders.
Your question suggests Liberals are being held "outside". Liberals live in their Liberal world and have no intention nor desire to be anywhere else.
Crow Hunter
08-14-14, 10:59
Do we even know the sequence of events yet?
I have heard 3 or 4 different stories and none of them sound plausible yet. Most of them are down right silly.
All I know for sure is that there was a police officer (deemed to be white but not confirmed) that initiated contact with Michael Brown and supposedly a single "friend" that was with him and is a "witness" while they were walking down the street minding their own business.
I have read that the officer initiated a stop while in the car and the "victim" was reaching into the car when he was shot.
I have read that the officer hit the "victim" with his car door and it closed on the cop and he got mad and shot him in the arm and then got out firing.
I have read that the officer got out and was talking to the "victim" and then there was a chase around the vehicle and down the street with the officer firing wildly.
I have also read that the officer hand "no right to be there" and he was out "hunting young black men to kill". I was half expecting them to say that the "victim" had iced tea and Skittles in his hoodie. I literally thought I was reading comments related to Zimmerman.
So is there an official sequence of events or is this all just standard MSM shaped narrative with a "trial by public opinion"?
So is there an official sequence of events, or is this all just standard MSM shaped narrative with a "trial by public opinion"?
Answers:
NO
and
YES
Answers:
NO
and
YES
You're in the St Louis area aren't you? With all your training, knowledge & weaponry, why don't you step in & put an end to this crap?
;)
[QUOTE=TXBK;1969325] Where to start: "the majority of the black community" really? Any data to support that? It is taboo because statements like that are racist. Secondly, the next time you guys lament that "liberals", the MSM, and minorities just don't get the 2nd Amendment, ask you self what you have done to make them feel welcome in the community. Comments like this, make us all look bad, make it harder to preserve rights, and don't encourage the bridge building that needs to happen to preserve our rights. THe 2nd Amendment is no going to be saved by right of center, straight white men. It is going to be saved by woman, minorities, gays, and others. Your comments make that harder, not easier. Are there huge problems in the black community, yes absolutely. Are there instances where officers deploy lethal force long after they are out of immediate danger? Probably... This kid reached in to the car, and tried to get the officers gun, while the officer was seated and equipped with a retention holster? I suppose that's possible. Isn't it equally possible that the officer continued the fight and used lethal force after he was out of danger? If this was a white kid with a skateboard and a Che shirt in Seattle, would people be calling him a homie or a hood rat? Sort of doubt it.
One other question, from a training perspective: who initiates a contact with an unknown subject while seated in a patrol car.
Here's some data to support that: I'm giving you a formal invitation to spend some time in my "hood" to observe the "African American" culture. I'll set you up with a comfy recliner, shade, & an ice chest full of you favorite beverage. All I ask is you observe the area. The African Americans will whip out their dongs & take a piss, smash their 40oz bottles, & drop their grape Swisher Sweet wrappers right at your feet. You'll witness drug deals, prostitution, fatherless black kids being literally drug by their hand with feet dragging behind them on the way to the corner store by their mothers who are either looking to get laid, score a bag of dope, or pick up a couple 40's for dinner, etc... And God forbid you confront any of them about their savage behavior, you'll likely end up in a violent confrontation.
Thank God I don't live in this area & my beautiful family isn't subjected to this filth. I only work here. I've witnessed this savage behavior for 12 years now & it makes me sick every day. My opinions & views are based on what I see in the black community 5-7 days a week. These people are animals. The cops know it, other business owners know it, everyone know it except them. Anyone who calls me a racist can go FK themselves. You come down here & witness it for yourselves. After a while, you'll fell the same way. I guarantee it.
Accusing me of being racist doesn't produce the same reaction as Kryptonite does to Superman. IDGAF. I have to deal with these shitbags on a daily basis. Do you? My opinions are based on my personal first hand experiences "Coexisting" with them.
And unless Kayne West or Little Wayne endorse the NRA or 2A rights, you can bet your ass that the black community won't embrace them.
As a majority would be greater than or equal to 51%, I stand by my statement as the majority is rotten and should be thrown out. This doesn't mean that I am racist, because there are plenty of other colored nuisances that need to go as well. It just so happens that the black community is the focus of this story.
I still believe that this conversation is considered taboo in this country, because no matter how many people feel this way, no one wants to talk about it in public from being worried about being labeled a racist. This is a subject that gets me excited, so I shall proceed to bow out of this and keep my further comments to myself.
I have already made my comment and bowed out. KTR03, if you must quote me, please do so correctly so others do not try to quote you and look like they are quoting me. Other than making a comment to a thread in General Discussion on a firearm forum, my comments have absolutely nothing to do with the Second Amendment. I have known and worked with several good people that were black, but I came to know them because they were employed and/or were seeking a college education. I am prejudice towards shitty, rotten people of all colors, and would appreciate not being called something that I am not. Thank you.
I think something may be up with the quote feature... mine got screwed up too.... It seems to be putting the wrong user name in the quote the right one outside.
[QUOTE=KTR03;1970039]
I can tell you when I was younger and had more of a social network practically everyone I was around was a Liberal. All of my friends. Vietnamese, Indian, White, Korean, Male, Female, Tree huggers... just all over the map. Even the microscopic element of them that were interested in guns ( white woman ) none of them felt like they needed to be invited to anything nor were they wanting of anything. They were who they were. They damn sure weren't outsiders.
Your question suggests Liberals are being held "outside". Liberals live in their Liberal world and have no intention nor desire to be anywhere else.
I am suggesting that when we have students that want to learn to shoot and defend themselves, they are turned off by the type of rhetoric and the attitude of some in the gun rights community. In WA state, the largest growing group of CCW/CPL holders are woman. We got suppressors and SBRs through 2 democratic houses and signed by 2 democratic governors. If you want to dismiss them as "living in their own liberal world..." fine but they are going to out vote us and slowly but surely we will lose ground. WE are better off continuing to reach out to communities not making sweeping generalizations like the "majority of the black community is rotten (so most of the 40 million black people in the country are rotten).
I'll let the thread get back "on track".
I don't have a dog in the "black community" fight.... but Liberals are Liberals imo... I have zero problem shooting with and laughing with a Liberal. I will tell them they are nuts for voting for Obama. They will laugh at me and say oh yeah Romney was real prize,, or McCain.... I'm not going to be a different person and don't expect them to be either.... it's called honesty.....
btw.. check you quote in your last post.
You're in the St Louis area aren't you? With all your training, knowledge & weaponry, why don't you step in & put an end to this crap?
;)
Hey, Chief, if you want, come on up and we'll take care of it together.
:)
Camo fail. We see you!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvAiu4VCcAAqjEo.jpg:large
I love Sen. McCaskill's comments. :rolleyes:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/obama-briefed-on-ferguson-as-protests-police-clash/
Sen. Claire McCaskill issued a statement Thursday, saying "we need to de-militarize this situation."
"I obviously respect law enforcement's work to provide public safety, but my constituents are allowed to have peaceful protests, and the police need to respect that right and protect that right," the statement said.
What peacful protest is she seeing? And IMO the "peaceful protestors" are the ones who started this crap when they chose not to wait for an outcome to the investigation.
Kinda hard to tell due to lighting...
http://windypundit.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/2014-editorial-images/Ferguson-20140812-nyti-trigger.jpg
Zoomed out.
http://windypundit.com/index.php?callback=image&pid=84&width=500&height=500&mode=
Kinda hard to tell due to lighting...
http://windypundit.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/2014-editorial-images/Ferguson-20140812-nyti-trigger.jpg
Looks like the tip of his finger is down below the trigger guard.
Looks like the tip of his finger is down below the trigger guard.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I tried like heck to move my finger like that and couldn't make it happen.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I tried like heck to move my finger like that and couldn't make it happen.
Well, just because you can't do it....;)
Not saying you're wrong either though. I don't know of any AR trigger guard that has a big mass underneath it like that though.
I don't know of any AR trigger guard that has a big mass underneath it like that though.
Me neither... But, if you look at the positioning of the first portion of the finger it's visible in the trigger guard going horizontal then takes a weird downward angle. Maybe the mass is something in the background? Maybe he's got super-joint awesome Gumby fingers? LOL!
Can you do it or something similar? Not busting your balls, I'm genuinely curious. Maybe I'm the old man with stiff joints...
Any way you cut it it looks odd.
From the bookface:
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/14/9ed775c9099aa40f9bb2c6eb948cd47f.jpg
Looks like fun times are being had all around.
Not so much....
Hey, Chief, if you want, come on up and we'll take care of it together.
:)
I have to work tomorrow.
Besides that, my wife is pregnant so she took my crime fighting cape away from me.
Also the police have the ability to exercise a show of faith and back down. The streets belong to the people and to a degree they have been backed into their corner with no where to go. The bussed in looters obviously not a part of that element.
So do the protestors. The rights of the citizens to peaceably protest are being protected. There's no indication that old ladies with signs are a problem. Young punks with Molotov cocktails, rocks, guns, etc. are the problem. Those are also the same ones who are looting. In case you haven't noticed, 70 year old women don't do much of that. The reason that decent people can't go about their lives is not because of the cops. Its the thugs.
BUT lets say the cops let the people have the streets and said streets get trashed even more. Guess who will get the blame for that too? The cops. "They didn't protect the neighborhood" blah, blah, blah. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
As fot the reporters getting gased. Maybe they shouldn't get so close. Wind does have a tendency to shift sometimes.
As fot the reporters getting gased. Maybe they shouldn't get so close. Wind does have a tendency to shift sometimes.
If you watch the video I linked to earlier you'll see the canister was shot directly at them and landed in front of them. Then the SWAT vehicle pulls up and the officers collapse the lights and cameras after the reporters beat feet to get away from the gas.
Do we even know the sequence of events yet?
I haven't seen anything even hinting at a useful consistent fact pattern/SOE yet. How all hell broke lose when no one seems to even know what happened, I don't know. Obviously, majority using it as their excuse to do stupid sh&% and vent their general frustrations. If anyone has link to what seems to have actually happened (beyond PD shoots and kills a teen), post it!
http://www.westernjournalism.com/breaking-police-chief-releases-cops-side-story-michael-brown-shooting/
I posted this a couple pages back and it might have been missed. But the police chief is saying the dead dude beat the shit out of the officer inside the patrol car and the shooting took place inside the patrol car. Whether or not that is true that is the official story as of now from the PD.
http://www.westernjournalism.com/breaking-police-chief-releases-cops-side-story-michael-brown-shooting/
I posted this a couple pages back and it might have been missed. But the police chief is saying the dead dude beat the shit out of the officer inside the patrol car and the shooting took place inside the patrol car. Whether or not that is true that is the official story as of now from the PD.
Thanx. But that's "the mans" side of the story, so can't possibly be anything but a cover up and the LEO was simply out looking to kill teens of color for fun, etc, etc.
Such areas are tinder boxes of emotions, and once lit, hard to put out without "heavy handed" riot police doing their thang, which makes for great anti police vid on social media.
Crow Hunter
08-14-14, 13:54
Thanx. But that's "the mans" side of the story, so can't possibly be anything but a cover up and the LEO was simply out looking to kill teens of color for fun, etc, etc.
Such areas are tinder boxes of emotions, and once lit, hard to put out without "heavy handed" riot police doing their thang, which makes for great anti police vid on social media.
I was wondering if that was corroborated with any other news outlets or not. It makes the most sense of anything that I have read so far.
I really feel bad for the police in this situation. If they come down hard and stop the violence, they are brutal. If they don't do anything and people get hurt/killed/property damage then they "just stood back and watched" instead of actively trying to protect people and property.:(
I personally would prefer the err on the side of "brutal". Most significantly because if they don't, some other non-black person is going to be forced to defend themselves or their property from looters/rioters when this spirals out of control and it will just add fuel to the fire and potentially start spreading.
While I am in West TN, I am not that far from St Louis and I am afraid there are a lot of people in my area that would love to take advantage of something like this.:mad:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/sks/4614862334.html
Roof Koreans for hire. Much success during L.A. Riots, no looters at our stores. Added bonus: can't be accused of racism, especially if violent mobs are fired upon. Will provide own ammo, but will charge extra for any rounds spent.
Write Winger
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
Outstanding.
:sarcastic:
I saw one account supposedly told to CNN. One lady says she saw the kid get chased down the street after a struggle through car window... like arm wrestling... At the same time, another lady said the kid tried to get away and then reacted as though shot, turned, was then shot and stayed right there.... so somebody is lying because down the street is not 20 feet .. 20 feet is across a room at best...... and then they hit record....
I think the Govenor should get out there right now, in the street with his subjects.... I mean fellow citizens..... and promise a night of peace. Tell them they are going to stand down. Let the media outlets in and interview the citizens and give them an outlet. Nothing good is going to come from the authorities getting "brutal".
I thought they looting was over... that's what was reported. They arrested 32 and the looting had ceased..... if that's the case they need to make a show of good faith and turn it down a notch and give the honest citizens opportunity to do right without feeling like they are doing so through duress.
This situation, much like the Zimmerman CF, is beyond repair from a get the truth and come to an objective conclusion stand point.
Wrt the comment made that the streets belong to the locals and the police should show good faith and back off. To a certain degree I would agree that the streets do belong to the tax payers. However, the inventory @ the local piggly wiggly does not. Neither do the windows of the piggly wiggly and so on. Good faith is a two way street. Maybe if these "peaceful protesters" showed a little good faith to their neighborhood merchants there would be no need to call the police. Im pretty certain that if these well meaning fellows showed up to tear up your neighborhood you wouldn't be asking the police to show good faith and let them burn your home to the ground.
As far as the police planting agents provocateur into the protests to foment violence (which granted has happened before and will happen again) goes, the solution to that is pretty simple. Don't do things that are wrong, immoral and illegal cause someone tells you to do so. It's called knowing right from wrong. If you're in a situation where people are fomenting violence; you are free to leave and abandon them to get caught. You are also free to get your friends and face stomp them before they hurt someone. Everything isn't someone else's fault. Unless someone has a gun to your head they didn't MAKE you do something you didn't want to.
Understood, but again, I was under the impression the looting was over and actually bussed in from outside.. not locals. I expect the piggly wiggly has insurance as well. So now it's time for the Gov to say ok, look we can do this two ways... we'll go first.. then give an order to pull the heavy gear back off the line... of course if that fails to gain a favorable response then they need plan B... but even then tossing tear gas is going to get old in short order. They need to get the media in there as a temporary buffer.
I think the Govenor should get out there right now, in the street with his subjects.... I mean fellow citizens..... and promise a night of peace. Tell them they are going to stand down. Let the media outlets in and interview the citizens and give them an outlet. Nothing good is going to come from the authorities getting "brutal".
IMO nothing good will come from the media coming in and fanning the flames of racial hatred even more. It's the media inability to gather accurate facts and present them in an objective manner that builds momentum for these kinds of outlandish "protests". The Al Sharpton's of the world will whip those folks into a frenzy like nothing. IMO everyone needs to stand down till some actual facts can be shared.
I thought they looting was over... that's what was reported. They arrested 32 and the looting had ceased..... if that's the case they need to make a show of good faith and turn it down a notch and give the honest citizens opportunity to do right without feeling like they are doing so through duress.
Yes, well according to the government and the media we won the war in Iraq. How's that headline going for us??
Are honest citizens being arrested and having their right to protest infringed upon? If so I'd be in the same boat as you and demanding that the cops heads roll for civil rights violations. Why is it that it's always someone else that has to show good faith? Why can't those who fanned the flames of rioting show good faith? The neighborhood members who showed up and kicked things off with the looting and rioting instead of protesting need to stay the **** home for a few days in a show of good faith toward their neighborhood merchants.
Why is it that it's always someone else that has to show good faith? Why can't those who fanned the flames of rioting show good faith? The neighborhood members who showed up and kicked things off with the looting and rioting instead of protesting need to stay the **** home for a few days in a show of good faith toward their neighborhood merchants.
Because now there is a the perception of duress which arose from a situation of a coverup. "stay home" .. again, they consider that their home... stay in their dwellings is an order. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm saying people will stop getting roughed up and killed. some idiot supposedly aimed a gun at a leo and got killed... no leos... no one to aim a gun at... maybe then they will indeed go to their dwellings. IOW, it's time for intermission, a bathroom break, and drink refresh. The audience doesn't know to do that until the curtain is closed.
Is violating firearms safety rules and glassing American citizens the right course of action?
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53ec0876eab8ea6877eb88bd-1200-750/ap801576053787.jpg
http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/dti/rendered/2014/08/0434142765_13673974_8col.jpg
Or this guy again... Empty hands and appears not to be a threat.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/53ea6ea2ecad04ed6fbfd807-960/ferguson-missouri-8.jpg
Because now there is a the perception of duress which arose from a situation of a coverup. "stay home" .. again, they consider that their home... stay in their dwellings is an order. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm saying people will stop getting roughed up and killed. some idiot supposedly aimed a gun at a leo and got killed... no leos... no one to aim a gun at... maybe then they will indeed go to their dwellings. IOW, it's time for intermission, a bathroom break, and drink refresh. The audience doesn't know to do that until the curtain is closed.
To be fair; there is duress because a group of idiots looted and pillaged based upon a perception of racism and cover up. You keep talking like there is a cover up going. If you have fact to prove that hypothesis then by all means share it so that we can all make objective decisions regarding this topic.
Right the person stupid enough to aim a gun at armed LEO would have just gone about his business of turning his life around had those evil cops not been there. He wouldn't have found someone else to try and intimidate or maybe even actually hurt. Nah...that never happens.
Are you actually saying that those folks are too effing stupid to know right from wrong and need some clue from a higher power as to when to call it quits and go back to their daily lives. The only thing more racist that I've heard in recent times came from a group of Hispanic bi lingual proponents who flat out said Hispanics can't learn English so we should stop expecting them to.
Is violating firearms safety rules and glassing American citizens the right course of action?
http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/53ec0876eab8ea6877eb88bd-1200-750/ap801576053787.jpg
http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/dti/rendered/2014/08/0434142765_13673974_8col.jpg
Or this guy again... Empty hands and appears not to be a threat.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/53ea6ea2ecad04ed6fbfd807-960/ferguson-missouri-8.jpg
I would say absolutely no. Not sure what the context of the pics are, especially the one with the guy walking and apparently posing no threat.
The cops do need to stop pointing guns at folks and the protesters need to figure out a way to keep the riff raff out of their midst.
A little common sense would go a long way, wouldn't it.
Leaveammoforme
08-14-14, 15:48
http://www.tampabay.com/resources/images/dti/rendered/2014/08/0434142765_13673974_8col.jpg
Lolz on the 'little scope syndrome'. Totally has the 4 inch shade perm'd with the flip cap on the shade.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 15:49
This situation, much like the Zimmerman CF, is beyond repair from a get the truth and come to an objective conclusion stand point.
Captain Obvious lives! J/K :D
The sad thing is that no one will ever know what really happened, and whether the officer in question was right or wrong his entire life is ruined, not to mention the lives of the shooting victim's family members.
Add to that the fact that the looted neighborhoods will probably never spring back because very few people will care enough to rebuild them to same standard as before.
The only winners will be people like Sharpton, who banks on continuing the racial divide in this country, and people like Holder, who not only banks on the continuing racial divide but also seeks to federalize the race-baiting agenda.
In sum, a cluster f*** of the first order, with no chance of ever returning to just a normal way of life.
Is violating firearms safety rules and glassing American citizens the right course of action?
Its been an outrage, this paramilitary response, I remain satisfied that the shooting event itself will eventually resolve, but the United States is watching as this department escalates matters, and the targeting of the media is inexcusable, regardless of how they are perceived to be interfering. I'm a pretty good representation of Mr & Mrs America, and I have had enough of LEA gearing up as though they are at war, enough is enough. Its time that LEA across the entire nation are reminded as to who it is that they work for, and its past time that they have their access to such hardware restricted no less then it is to Mr & Mrs America, I am really very serious about this, its time that these folk are forbidden any such weaponry, period! BTW, that douche leveling that scoped rifle on the crowd is just outrageous....
NCPatrolAR
08-14-14, 15:57
How should police dress in crowd control situations?
Crow Hunter
08-14-14, 15:59
Its been an outrage, this paramilitary response, I remain satisfied that the shooting event itself will eventually resolve, but the United States is watching as this department escalates matters, and the targeting of the media is inexcusable, regardless of how they are perceived to be interfering. I'm a pretty good representation of Mr & Mrs America, and I have had enough of LEA gearing up as though they are at war, enough is enough. Its time that LEA across the entire nation are reminded as to who it is that they work for, and its past time that they have their access to such hardware restricted no less then it is to Mr & Mrs America, I am really very serious about this, its time that these folk are forbidden any such weaponry, period! BTW, that douche leveling that scoped rifle on the crowd is just outrageous....
I agree.
Unless there was an active hostage incident or a shooter he should not have had that rifle pointed at people.
No matter how well trained a person is, mistakes happen. If that mistake happened while the scope was trained on a innocent persons head...
How should police dress in crowd control situations?
I would appreciate name tags, at a minimum, and badge numbers or an identifying number of sorts.
brickboy240
08-14-14, 16:20
Could this type of "crew" show up in your neighborhood when Prez Hillary signs an assault weapons ban and they ask for "voluntary" turn in of your AR or AK?
...maybe
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 16:22
"Burn it down!"
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot6_zpsc5582e67.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot6_zpsc5582e67.jpg.html)
(Note the handgun in fatty's wasteband)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot2_zps0e63025f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot2_zps0e63025f.jpg.html)
A wine connoisseur for sure . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot8_zpsf29f7fec.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot8_zpsf29f7fec.jpg.html)
Is that Dave Chappell's Tyrone Biggums? :lol:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot7_zpsf997f1f4.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot7_zpsf997f1f4.jpg.html)
The Free Shit Army, come one come all . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot5_zps97118da1.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot5_zps97118da1.jpg.html)
I rioted and all I got was a lousey bag of chips . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot4_zps9e47f59f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot4_zps9e47f59f.jpg.html)
The fruits of Obama voters . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot1_zpsa11d900d.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot1_zpsa11d900d.jpg.html)
A picture is worth a thousand words......I read that somewhere........:jester:
To be fair; there is duress because a group of idiots looted and pillaged based upon a perception of racism and cover up. You keep talking like there is a cover up going. If you have fact to prove that hypothesis then by all means share it so that we can all make objective decisions regarding this topic.
You are correct. I should have said "perception of cover-up"... hell, I'll go one further...l let's call it a citizenry fabricated lie. a fabrication of a coverup.... I simply assumed we were already in agreement on that. Several have said with no disagreement that we don;t know what the hell happened... However... at this point... perception is reality... but no... I have no idea what happened and am not trying to say that indeed there was a coverup...
Right the person stupid enough to aim a gun at armed LEO would have just gone about his business of turning his life around had those evil cops not been there. He wouldn't have found someone else to try and intimidate or maybe even actually hurt. Nah...that never happens.
Ok, well if you want to go that route,,, I'll go run through the streets and lure the idiots out into the open and you pick them off. We'll clean up that town. Seriously if you want to fix all of society that's pretty far outside the scope of this ordeal.
Are you actually saying that those folks are too effing stupid to know right from wrong and need some clue from a higher power as to when to call it quits and go back to their daily lives. The only thing more racist that I've heard in recent times came from a group of Hispanic bi lingual proponents who flat out said Hispanics can't learn English so we should stop expecting them to.
No, I am saying there is an energy level present that each side is feeding on. The authorities can most easily change that dynamic by backing off. Really has nothing to do with anyone's intelligence.... although if the authorities keep this up at the present pace I would start to lean towards saying they were pretty effen stupid..
Look... the authorizes have killed two people and arrested at least 32. People are trying by right of the Constitution to re-assemble peaceably.... the authorities now need to back off... if things get out of hand again, they come back... Otherwise the score will simply go up in favor of the "perceived bad guys" aka authorities.
I'm not saying leave en masse... I'm saying show a sign of backing off so the people can breathe.
BTW, the pictures... it is my understanding this was days ago. It is my understanding now that it's turning into a mob vs police situation.... I'm saying take the incentive away as opposed to trying to oppress it. the damage done has been accounted for. the police arrested them or killed them. Good work... now back off and get the peaceful protestors front and center. By published accounts this is not a high crime area so it should subside.
wildcard600
08-14-14, 16:34
is it just me or is there no magazine in that looters pistol ?
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 16:34
Did any of you watch a live feed from last night? When the police attacked no one I saw in the crowd was doing anything wrong.
I'd like to pose a question though. We are constantly reminded that most police officers are good people and we shouldn't let a few bad apples represent LE. Yet last night, at the time of the attack, not a single protestor I saw did anything wrong. One or two bad apples from earlier in the day caused the police to declare it an illegal protest and to leave. They also ordered the media to turn off their cameras. Why do police get to shoot tear gas and rubber bullets at entire crowds and into a neighborhood because of a couple bad apples within those peacefully protesting yet one or two bad apples in a department is passed off as isolated incidents and not representative of LE? The 'line' the police attacked had people sitting down in a row across the street and one person talking on a bullhorn. They had their hands up.
Then the intentional targeting of media. Funny some here are passing it off as being downwind or accidental. Keep making excuses but don't laugh or expect my sympathy when it's your turn one day.
I hope this reaction wakes a few people up to how our country operates and reacts to things these days. This idea of America being a war zone is trickling down to local departments and officers.
I don't care if the protestors are right or wrong. This has transcended the original incident and put on display for everyone to see what our society has become. Show up to a protest and get someone putting the crosshairs on you. Sit down to protest and get shot with rubber bullets and have tear gas lobbed at you. I'd like to see the few bad apples argument work both ways for once.
Way back when during my pre deployment training we were taught you can't retaliate into entire crowds because someone within the crowd threw something or even shot a weapon at you. I guess that principle doesn't apply in America.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 16:35
I'm not going to say much about the police response...just yet...
But...
It's ironic how clueless the protestors in these situations are: thinking that somehow threats of "no justice no peace" and the looting somehow gain sympathy from the rest of the American public. I would venture a guess that it does 180-degrees the exact opposite. You can't look like a victim when you are victimizing other people. When people are acting like animals, the first tendency of people is to want them locked up in cages, not to "redress their grievances." That the protestors can't see that baffles me. I know we are not talking about people who have studied civil disobedience and peaceful resistance, but honestly--common sense says that when you burn and loot that you do not gain much sympathy from those who might be in a position to help you.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 16:37
"Burn it down!"
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot6_zpsc5582e67.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot6_zpsc5582e67.jpg.html)
(Note the handgun in fatty's wasteband)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot2_zps0e63025f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot2_zps0e63025f.jpg.html)
A wine connoisseur for sure . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot8_zpsf29f7fec.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot8_zpsf29f7fec.jpg.html)
Is that Dave Chappell's Tyrone Biggums? :lol:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot7_zpsf997f1f4.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot7_zpsf997f1f4.jpg.html)
The Free Shit Army, come one come all . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot5_zps97118da1.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot5_zps97118da1.jpg.html)
I rioted and all I got was a lousey bag of chips . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot4_zps9e47f59f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot4_zps9e47f59f.jpg.html)
The fruits of Obama voters . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot1_zpsa11d900d.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot1_zpsa11d900d.jpg.html)
Those pictures were taken days ago and don't justify shooting tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protestors. I think we should look at things objectively and not just excuse poor behavior because we don't agree with why someone else is protesting.
is it just me or is there no magazine in that looters pistol ?I noticed that as well. Couldn't give one guess as to why, tho. Did laugh at his "Appendix carry".
They're using LRAD as well. This video shows them glassing people and using the LRAD.
http://youtu.be/lyt7GHOankA?list=UUvsye7V9psc-APX6wV1twLg
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 16:40
I'm not going to say much about the police response...just yet...
But...
It's ironic how clueless the protestors in these situations are: thinking that somehow threats of "no justice no peace" and the looting somehow gain sympathy from the rest of the American public. I would venture a guess that it does 180-degrees the exact opposite. You can't look like a victim when you are victimizing other people. When people are acting like animals, the first tendency of people is to want them locked up in cages, not to "redress their grievances." That the protestors can't see that baffles me. I know we are not talking about people who have studied civil disobedience and peaceful resistance, but honestly--common sense says that when you burn and loot that you do not gain much sympathy from those who might be in a position to help you.
Most people are fine with gov brutality and over reaction as long as they don't like who is getting brutalized.
The live feeds from last night tell a different story, though. Funny how when the gov does something wrong it's just some rogue agents, bad apples, or isolated incidents.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 16:42
Most people are fine with gov brutality and over reaction as long as they don't like who is getting brutalized.
The live feeds from last night tell a different story, though. Funny how when the gov does something wrong it's just some rogue agents, bad apples, or isolated incidents.
I haven't seen the latest videos. Although I have to admit, once I saw the looters I was turned off by the whole thing.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 16:42
Those pictures were taken days ago and don't justify shooting tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protestors. I think we should look at things objectively and not just excuse poor behavior because we don't agree with why someone else is protesting.
The thread was just started yesterday.
And I posted those pictures to illsutrate just some of what the St. Louis County PD is having to contend with. Stand by, as this plays out I will be posting more pics and vids.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 16:44
is it just me or is there no magazine in that looters pistol ?
Hard to tell from that pick, could be. Either way he is probably unware and one could be in the chamber.
I too would like to see some of last nights feeds to form my own opinion.
Interesting interview with Seattle PD former Chief Norman Stamper concerning Ferguson. (http://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002451/ferguson-police-militarization-seattle) A small snippet.
Norman Stamper: What happened in Seattle in 1999 was a police overreaction, which I presided over. It was the worst mistake of my career. We used chemical agents, a euphemism for tear gas, against nonviolent and essentially nonthreatening protesters. The natural consequence of which are that we were the catalyst for heightened tension and conflict rather than peacekeepers, or for that matter even peacemakers. It's a lesson, unfortunately, that American law enforcement in general has not learned.
AT: What do you think a preferable course would have been in Seattle, and how would those lessons apply to Ferguson?
NS: From a distance, and without having interviewed anyone in Ferguson or talked with anyone on it, just relying on media reports, I would have to characterize the police response as an overreaction. Had you set out to make matters worse, you couldn't have done a better job.
I'm just very, very disappointed and troubled that lessons that we learned in Seattle have not been embraced by American law enforcement in general, by these police departments that are facing mistrust and distrust in their communities in particular. If anything, the police in America belong to the people, not the other way around. As such, they have a responsibility to forge what I would call an authentic partnership with the community where they reject unilateral decision-making. One partner in a partnership just simply does not make unilateral or arbitrary decisions.
Now there's an exception to that. The exception is where you have an active shooter, where you have a barricaded suspect, where the situation really does call for the military-like response. Those are situations where you don't hold a seminar. You don't do telephonic polling, you take action, and it had better be decisive action or somebody's likely to get hurt or killed. There are those situations that come up in police work. They are far less frequent in occurrence than one would imagine.
Most times you have the luxury of time, but I fear that what's happened over the course of the last 10, 15 years, certainly with the advent of the drug war 40-plus years ago, and then in the aftermath of September 11, we have the police taking, increasingly, a military response to a wide variety of situations, and making matters much worse in the process.
AT: Are there specific things that you've seen police in Ferguson do that you think would be escalating the situation rather than defusing it?
NS: Yes. There's a real place for dogs in police work, but it is not in the context of a nonviolent protest. In fact, using dogs for crowd control is operationally, substantively, and from an image point-of-view just about the worst thing you can do.
We should have learned that lesson as an institution back in the ‘60s in this country. When [Birmingham, Alabama, public safety commissioner] Bull Conner unleashed his police dogs on nonviolent civil rights demonstrators, he was essentially saying to those peacefully protesting Americans, "You are the enemy."
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 16:48
FAA Implements No-Fly Zone in Ferguson Amid Unrest Over Killed Teen
The St. Louis County Police Department told TIME it asked the FAA for the flight restriction after a police helicopter was fired upon “multiple times” during civil unrest Sunday.
http://time.com/3105035/ferguson-faa-no-fly-zone/
I think this situation could be defined as a powder keg cluster ****.
You know what I think the Police should do? Back out, and let them burn the ****ing shithole down. I mean, we wouldn't want a police state would we? Every man, woman, and child for themselves.
Hit the eject button and let them burn it down. Of course then we'll hear all the bitching and moaning that "cops didn't do their job".....people don't know what they want, well besides wanting to bitch.
*Edit: I mean they didn't show up in force and the place was looted and vandalized. They do show up in force to make sure that doesn't occur and "police state". Its a lose/lose. They could kick it old school. PR24's, riot shields, skirmish line, and run the ****ers out of town...crackin skullz with 'ol hickory like back in the day...oh ya and a few fire trucks. But nobody claimed "police state" in the 60's....
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 16:51
The thread was just started yesterday.
And I posted those pictures to illsutrate just some of what the St. Louis County PD is having to contend with. Stand by, as this plays out I will be posting more pics and vids.
I watched quite a bit of live feeds last night and they weren't dealing with looting and rioting. People were out protesting peacefully when the police unleashed hell on them and continued down neighborhood streets.
Maybe the reaction last night is why the state police are taking over.
Is mixing in SWAT with hot guns part of SOP now? I thought that's why less than lethal guns are clearly marked and different colors than real firearms? How does crowd control devolve down into forming a skirmish line with hot guns and SWAT?
The looting and rioting were in the very beginning and most of it was from people outside of this area who drove in to commit criminal acts.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 16:55
I think this situation could be defined as a powder keg cluster ****.
You know what I think the Police should do? Back out, and let them burn the ****ing shithole down. I mean, we wouldn't want a police state would we? Every man, woman, and child for themselves.
Hit the eject button and let them burn it down. Of course then we'll hear all the bitching and moaning that "cops didn't do their job".....people don't know what they want, well besides wanting to bitch.
I didn't realize this was an all or nothing proposition where protestors get glassed with long guns and tear gassed for a peaceful protest and talking on a bullhorn OR just doing nothing and hoping the place burns down.
Are police not capable of having a presence without resorting to tear gassing people not presenting a threat and having hot guns pointed at people? If not then yeah we're better off not having them around.
http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ferg-featured.jpg
http://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/laser-1.jpg
BTW, that douche leveling that scoped rifle on the crowd is just outrageous....
... and he might be the decoy... makes you wonder where the rest are. I have to admit when they gassed Al Jereeza I got a bit of a laugh out of that but it's so wrong it's hard to believe it's even happening and that people are ok with it to the level they are.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 16:55
I watched quite a bit of live feeds last night and they weren't dealing with looting and rioting. People were out protesting peacefully when the police unleashed hell on them and continued down neighborhood streets.
Maybe the reaction last night is why the state police are taking over.
Is mixing in SWAT with hot guns part of SOP now? I thought that's why less than lethal guns are clearly marked and different colors than real firearms? How does crowd control devolve down into forming a skirmish line with hot guns and SWAT?
Haven't watched any of the videos from last night. Has a curfew been implemented? If so this may explain why they were breaking up the groups of protestors so they would leave after a certain time, i.e. after dark etc. State Police could be taking over for this or due to the fact that the PD probably have been going non-stop for 72hrs straight and they want their guys and gals to get some rest.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 16:58
I too would like to see some of last nights feeds to form my own opinion.
If I see a full unedited version I'll post it up. I've seen some but they're edited and don't show the context of before police moved in and started firing.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 17:00
If I see a full unedited version I'll post it up. I've seen some but they're edited and don't show the context of before police moved in and started firing.
Yes, please do.
I moved on when I thought this was just another Rodney King type of 'loot and pillage' form of "protest."
Now if the cops are acting like JBT's and opening a can of whoop-ass on innocent citizens, I definitely want to know about that too.
Is this guy white?
http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/20140814_ferguson_riots/pic_023.jpg
If I see a full unedited version I'll post it up. I've seen some but they're edited and don't show the context of before police moved in and started firing.
Here's one.
http://youtu.be/lnXnWB0AZgg
I'm glad I'm not anywhere near. I managed a front row seat for the day martial law was declared in RP (1972), the Rodney King riots, and a handful of post-hurricane and post-typhoon incidents in various countries, I am close enough if the footage is online now, I don't need to see it in-person anymore.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:05
Haven't watched any of the videos from last night. Has a curfew been implemented? If so this may explain why they were breaking up the groups of protestors so they would leave after a certain time, i.e. after dark etc. State Police could be taking over for this or due to the fact that the PD probably have been going non-stop for 72hrs straight and they want their guys and gals to get some rest.
Wasn't due to any curfew. The police declared it and illegal protest and ordered them to leave. Gave a few warnings then started in. From when I started watching to the first move was about 15 minutes. The videographer was at the front of the crowd. No one was throwing bottles or anything. Just chanting stuff and some people sat down in a line. If you just watch the police reaction you don't get the context of beforehand and what the crowd was doing.
Earlier there was stuff thrown but that was not wide spread or during the lead up to the police reaction.
I think the police could have stayed where they were and nothing would have happened further.
I didn't realize this was an all or nothing proposition where protestors get glassed with long guns and tear gassed for a peaceful protest and talking on a bullhorn OR just doing nothing and hoping the place burns down.
Are police not capable of having a presence without resorting to tear gassing people not presenting a threat and having hot guns pointed at people? If not then yeah we're better off not having them around.
Its not all or nothing. But is obvious you want nothing, and they want nothing. They don't want a POPO presence, so give them what they want......and lets just see where it goes from there.
Or like I added to my last post, go old school 60's style on them. Batons, Shields, Skirmish line, and some fire hoses. I mean there wasn't a police state in the 60's, so old school it is...
P.S. do you think its ok for mobs to stand in the middle of the street and protest?
I just hope that the cops who are blatantly disregarding basic, fundamental safety rules of firearms don't touch off a round into some innocent person.
Then, you will see rioting.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:18
Its not all or nothing. But is obvious you want nothing, and they want nothing. They don't want a POPO presence, so give them what they want......and lets just see where it goes from there.
Or like I added to my last post, go old school 60's style on them. Batons, Shields, Skirmish line, and some fire hoses. I mean there wasn't a police state in the 60's, so old school it is...
P.S. do you think its ok for mobs to stand in the middle of the street and protest?
I don't want nothing. The police could have stayed where they were and I doubt anything would have happened. The first couple of nights some of the people on the streets were the aggressors. Don't need looting and destruction of private property to make a point.
The last couple of days the police have been the aggressors. One wrong does not justify another. I'm not attempting to legitimize illegal or violent acts here. I care solely about a group of people's rights to protest and express their opinion.
Old school beat downs weren't right back then and they aren't today.
Very curious how the media has been intentionally attacked and ordered to turn off their cameras. The 'can't film the police' crap has been struck down repeatedly in court yet still happens.
Police can certain cordon off streets to allow people to protest or for other purposes. I don't really think that's a valid reason to tell people they can't protest. Streets are routinely closed down for one reason or another.
"Burn it down!"
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot6_zpsc5582e67.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot6_zpsc5582e67.jpg.html)
(Note the handgun in fatty's wasteband)
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot2_zps0e63025f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot2_zps0e63025f.jpg.html)
A wine connoisseur for sure . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot8_zpsf29f7fec.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot8_zpsf29f7fec.jpg.html)
Is that Dave Chappell's Tyrone Biggums? :lol:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot7_zpsf997f1f4.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot7_zpsf997f1f4.jpg.html)
The Free Shit Army, come one come all . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot5_zps97118da1.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot5_zps97118da1.jpg.html)
I rioted and all I got was a lousey bag of chips . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot4_zps9e47f59f.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot4_zps9e47f59f.jpg.html)
The fruits of Obama voters . . .
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/moriot1_zpsa11d900d.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/moriot1_zpsa11d900d.jpg.html)
Well there went any sympathy I was feeling.
"187" with County Police X'd out tells me everything I need to know.
MorphCross
08-14-14, 17:23
No doubt that the situation is being needlessly aggravated. Gov. Nixon has sent in the MO Highway Patrol to take command of crowd control so hopefully images of unarmed citizens getting muzzled by police will be limited.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:24
Well there went any sympathy I was feeling.
"187" with County Police X'd out tells me everything I need to know.
Pictures of 9 people looting and it's ok to tear gas people not looting and down residential streets where people were already inside their houses?
P.S. do you think its ok for mobs to stand in the middle of the street and protest?
Technically, yes, but your need a license or a badge.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bu4L6kECQAAsUZd.jpg
Those pictures were taken days ago and don't justify shooting tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protestors. I think we should look at things objectively and not just excuse poor behavior because we don't agree with why someone else is protesting.
I'm sorry but responding LE has NO IDEA what the situation is going to be on any given night so it is reasonable they prepare for the worst and if tear gas and rubber bullets PREVENT the sort of things protestors HAVE ALREADY DONE then that is fine by me.
If the protests had been "peaceful" to begin with, we wouldn't be here. But you can't tear shit up and then decide after the fact that you want to be respected as a "peaceful protester."
The time for "peaceful protests" was before they started looting, vandalizing and threatening people.
Honestly the only thing the police have really done wrong is fail to prevent the nights of looting and violence that already occurred.
Eurodriver
08-14-14, 17:28
These protesters are pussies. I'm sick and tired of seeing "187 County Police" BS and no action.
Of course I don't want to see LEOs hurt, but shit. Put up or shutup.
I guess it's no different than the VFW or prison anyplace else people like to BS about past exploits. The talkers don't do, and the doers don't talk.
I'm sorry but responding LE has NO IDEA what the situation is going to be on any given night so it is reasonable they prepare for the worst and if tear gas and rubber bullets PREVENT the sort of things protestors HAVE ALREADY DONE then that is fine by me.
If the protests had been "peaceful" to begin with, we wouldn't be here. But you can't tear shit up and then decide after the fact that you want to be respected as a "peaceful protester."
The time for "peaceful protests" was before they started looting, vandalizing and threatening people.
Honestly the only thing the police have really done wrong is fail to prevent the nights of looting and violence that already occurred.
These protestors aren't affiliated with the looters from what I've read.
Eurodriver
08-14-14, 17:31
Obama, speaking from the Massachusetts island where he's on a two-week vacation, said there was no excuse for excessive force by police in the aftermath of the shooting. He said he had asked the Justice Department and FBI to investigate the incident.
Well I guess we know which side he's on...the LEOs should just go home and see what happens then.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:33
I'm sorry but responding LE has NO IDEA what the situation is going to be on any given night so it is reasonable they prepare for the worst and if tear gas and rubber bullets PREVENT the sort of things protestors HAVE ALREADY DONE then that is fine by me.
If the protests had been "peaceful" to begin with, we wouldn't be here. But you can't tear shit up and then decide after the fact that you want to be respected as a "peaceful protester."
The time for "peaceful protests" was before they started looting, vandalizing and threatening people.
Honestly the only thing the police have really done wrong is fail to prevent the nights of looting and violence that already occurred.
So when we have a few isolated incidents of police misconduct or a few rogue agents in the IRS we should fire the entire dept/agency. I mean we can't distinguish between good/bad so so treat everyone as bad? Works both ways right? Get 9 people in pictures looting so every single person out there must be a looter and tear gassed?
Pictures of 9 people looting and it's ok to tear gas people not looting and down residential streets where people were already inside their houses?
I understand the point you are trying to make, but for starters it was a lot more than 9 people and once people have started looting and vandalizing you can't decide it's now time for a peaceful protest. That option already left the building and it is the job of law enforcement to make sure they don't have ANOTHER night of rioting.
There might have been "peaceful protestors" in that crowd, but I guarantee you there were plenty of Wal Mart shoppers who would have gone home with a big screen TV if the crowd was able to get out of hand like it did the first few nights. There were probably people who wanted to "peacefully protest" the first night out, unfortunately for them the violent criminals in the crowd determined what was actually going to happen that night.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 17:33
Well I guess we know which side he's on...the LEOs should just go home and see what happens then.
"White Folks' greed rules a world in need." There literally is no other quote attributed to Mr. Obama that better relays what side he's on.
...the LEOs should just go home and see what happens then.
It worked in Los Angeles. :)
These protestors aren't affiliated with the looters from what I've read.
And the police sent out to deal with the civil unrest are able to determine that how?
And the police sent out to deal with the civil unrest are able to determine that how?
The looting is over and done with. The videos and pictures I've posted show people standing around having hot weapons pointed at them. They are not committing criminal acts.
ETA - rubber bullets, teargas, etc...
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 17:36
I'm sorry but responding LE has NO IDEA what the situation is going to be on any given night so it is reasonable they prepare for the worst and if tear gas and rubber bullets PREVENT the sort of things protestors HAVE ALREADY DONE then that is fine by me.
If the protests had been "peaceful" to begin with, we wouldn't be here. But you can't tear shit up and then decide after the fact that you want to be respected as a "peaceful protester."
The time for "peaceful protests" was before they started looting, vandalizing and threatening people.
Honestly the only thing the police have really done wrong is fail to prevent the nights of looting and violence that already occurred.
And this is where I'm at. Sorry but how many Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, and whatever this d-bags name was are we going to see. The urban dregs use these incidents as an excuse to burn shit down, steal, rape, rob, whatever. And you know what, if Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, and this other d-bag weren’t career criminals doing what they do we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
These crowds can turn violent in a second as they have already demonstrated . . . time and again.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:39
I understand the point you are trying to make, but for starters it was a lot more than 9 people and once people have started looting and vandalizing you can't decide it's now time for a peaceful protest. That option already left the building and it is the job of law enforcement to make sure they don't have ANOTHER night of rioting.
There might have been "peaceful protestors" in that crowd, but I guarantee you there were plenty of Wal Mart shoppers who would have gone home with a big screen TV if the crowd was able to get out of hand like it did the first few nights. There were probably people who wanted to "peacefully protest" the first night out, unfortunately for them the violent criminals in the crowd determined what was actually going to happen that night.
That was days ago. I haven't heard of any looting since then. Maybe I'm expecting too much but I'd like to think Americans are rationale human beings who can deal with criminals without resorting to mass punishment and violating everyone's rights.
And the police sent out to deal with the civil unrest are able to determine that how?
By seeing that after they arrest them the looting subsides... this was 3 days ago. that town is not high crime area.
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ferguson-Missouri.html That town was on a several year downturn in crime..
So when we have a few isolated incidents of police misconduct or a few rogue agents in the IRS we should fire the entire dept/agency. I mean we can't distinguish between good/bad so so treat everyone as bad? Works both ways right? Get 9 people in pictures looting so every single person out there must be a looter and tear gassed?
The nights of rioting and looting weren't a "few isolated incidents" nor was it anything close to "only 9 people." And sadly, when you have giant crowds of rioters it does sort of **** things up for everyone. The police should have shut that shit down on the first night.
Once the criminal activity had ended (it hasn't) and things have calmed down (also hasn't happened) THEN you can attempt organized peaceful protests. We should bear in mind that most of this is happening because people in the "community" honestly believe that if you go for a cops gun, and aren't able to successfully get his weapon that you should then be afforded the opportunity to surrender without incident.
And of course, if this was a white kid who got shot going after a black cops gun, the only people complaining would be the parents of the white kid. There would be no protests, no idiot magnet lawyers and no riots.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 17:41
The looting is over and done with. The videos and pictures I've posted show people standing around having hot weapons pointed at them. They are not committing criminal acts.
I'm not defending the cops by any means, just trying to understand what's going on.
"When the only tool you have is a hammer, all of your problems begin to look like nails." The cops are still at Defcon4 while the looters have moved on and the rest of the citizens are behaving more peacefully. The problem is: the bull is angry now and isn't going to calm down just because the situation has changed.
This has the potential for more innocent people to end up dead and for this whole thing to get even worse.
Doc Safari
08-14-14, 17:43
And of course, if this was a white kid who got shot going after a black cops gun, the only people complaining would be the parents of the white kid. There would be no protests, no idiot magnet lawyers and no riots.
Good point. Which gets back to people doing things which do not garner sympathy with the American public. The protesters are actually making things worse for themselves.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:44
And this is where I'm at. Sorry but how many Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, and whatever this d-bags name was are we going to see. The urban dregs use these incidents as an excuse to burn shit down, steal, rape, rob, whatever. And you know what, if Rodney King, Trayvon Martin, and this other d-bag weren’t career criminals doing what they do we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
These crowds can turn violent in a second as they have already demonstrated . . . time and again.
Then deal with them if that happens. Until then the rest of them have the right to protest. The reason matters not. I don't have to agree with their reasoning to support their rights. I said the same thing about the Westboro idiots.
By seeing that after they arrest them the looting subsides... this was 3 days ago. that town is not high crime area.
Do you not understand how many times the Rodney King riots seemingly slowed down and than ramped up again? This situation is hardly under control that fact that large crowds feel the need to come out under these conditions show there is no control despite the intentions of the "peaceful protestors" within the crowd.
The moment you get a large crowd that feels they control the situation, it can go sideways in seconds.
I'm generally not crazy about a lot of police responses, for example the guys who are pointing weapons at people are aren't currently being a threat is WRONG imo. But you don't seem to understand that before anything can move forward law enforcement has to secure the entire situation so there is absolutely no more violence. And I don't mean less violence or less property damage, I mean NONE because everything is under control.
They are NOT there yet.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:48
The nights of rioting and looting weren't a "few isolated incidents" nor was it anything close to "only 9 people." And sadly, when you have giant crowds of rioters it does sort of **** things up for everyone. The police should have shut that shit down on the first night.
Once the criminal activity had ended (it hasn't) and things have calmed down (also hasn't happened) THEN you can attempt organized peaceful protests. We should bear in mind that most of this is happening because people in the "community" honestly believe that if you go for a cops gun, and aren't able to successfully get his weapon that you should then be afforded the opportunity to surrender without incident.
And of course, if this was a white kid who got shot going after a black cops gun, the only people complaining would be the parents of the white kid. There would be no protests, no idiot magnet lawyers and no riots.
I was responding to your comment of having lost any sympathy for them after quoting the pictures that were posted.
Other people committing illegal acts don't warrant a mass loss of rights for others. This is the same argument the Brady crew make against us. Criminals with guns and mass shootings mean I lose my rights? Shouldn't work with guns and it shouldn't work with other rights, either.
That was days ago. I haven't heard of any looting since then. Maybe I'm expecting too much but I'd like to think Americans are rationale human beings who can deal with criminals without resorting to mass punishment and violating everyone's rights.
Posts riots are a lot like a post hurricane environment. The rules are temporarily different.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:50
Do you not understand how many times the Rodney King riots seemingly slowed down and than ramped up again? This situation is hardly under control that fact that large crowds feel the need to come out under these conditions show there is no control despite the intentions of the "peaceful protestors" within the crowd.
The moment you get a large crowd that feels they control the situation, it can go sideways in seconds.
I'm generally not crazy about a lot of police responses, for example the guys who are pointing weapons at people are aren't currently being a threat is WRONG imo. But you don't seem to understand that before anything can move forward law enforcement has to secure the entire situation so there is absolutely no more violence. And I don't mean less violence or less property damage, I mean NONE because everything is under control.
They are NOT there yet.
I have a feeling someone didn't watch things live or a full unedited version.
'Peaceful protestors within the crowd'? The ENTIRE crowd as shown on video was peaceful.
NCPatrolAR
08-14-14, 17:51
I would appreciate name tags, at a minimum, and badge numbers or an identifying number of sorts.
In major crowd control situations you aren't going to see names or badge #s. A roster # system should be in place and that's pretty much the standard across the board. It's what we used during the DNC to good effect
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 17:52
Posts riots are a lot like a post hurricane environment. The rules are temporarily different.
Does that include confiscating firearms?
.46caliber
08-14-14, 17:53
For those of you that aren't following the local stations that have more coverage, looting was as recent as Tuesday night last I recall, albeit in a different area.
The moment some dickhead soaks a rag with alcohol and stuffs it in a bottle, it is no longer a peaceful gathering.
KMOV had plenty of coverage of the 2 or 3 putting one together last night. Rocks and bricks were thrown at officers last night. One officer was struck in the head with a molotov cocktail but the riot gear did its job.
Plus Boone's Farm usually doesn't do well in that application.
Police forces were at the ready, but all local accounts say they did not order to disperse until things were thrown.
Schools were supposed to start Monday but this unrest has caused closings till next Monday.
ETA: Just to clarify, I hold the rights to free speech and peaceful assembly as dearly as the 2nd. There has been enough destruction and disruption here that I have 0 issue with officers being at the ready for any escalated scenario so long as the do not make an advance until a member of the gathering crosses the peaceful line.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Do you not understand how many times the Rodney King riots seemingly slowed down and than ramped up again? This situation is hardly under control that fact that large crowds feel the need to come out under these conditions show there is no control despite the intentions of the "peaceful protestors" within the crowd.
The moment you get a large crowd that feels they control the situation, it can go sideways in seconds.
I'm generally not crazy about a lot of police responses, for example the guys who are pointing weapons at people are aren't currently being a threat is WRONG imo. But you don't seem to understand that before anything can move forward law enforcement has to secure the entire situation so there is absolutely no more violence. And I don't mean less violence or less property damage, I mean NONE because everything is under control.
They are NOT there yet.
I disagree... that's all I can say. I respect your view but this is not LA.
How should police dress in crowd control situations?
In blue like they used to.
To restore public trust they should dress like people there to restore order, not an occupying military force. There is no need for digi-cam in an urban law enforcement operation.
If you want the public's trust, perception and image go a long way. When LE starts looking like what people have seen on their tv's in Iraq and Afghanistan for the past decade they're going to be met with distrust.
I was responding to your comment of having lost any sympathy for them after quoting the pictures that were posted.
Other people committing illegal acts don't warrant a mass loss of rights for others. This is the same argument the Brady crew make against us. Criminals with guns and mass shootings mean I lose my rights? Shouldn't work with guns and it shouldn't work with other rights, either.
Hardly the same situation. First this situation is temporary. They haven't banned the rights to protest by law permanently.
It's a lot like this. Your bank gets robbed at 3pm. At 4pm you wish to make a deposit to your account. But the FBI has the parking lot blocked off and inform you it's a "crime scene" and deny you access to your bank." Now in a perfect world you shouldn't lose your banking privileges because of the actions of criminals. But that is what happens...temporarily.
Nobody has lost their rights to peacefully protest. Problem is right now there is no guarantee those protests will be peaceful and for all you, me or anyone else knows if the police didn't shut down that protest AFTER THEY EVEN ANNOUNCED that it was no longer a "peaceful protest" it could have gone in any direction including being the worst night of rioting seen so far.
And quite honestly there shouldn't be any protests until AFTER the investigation and any trial or sentencing. But people decided to just go ahead and be violent and destructive and the police have to bring that environment under control before they permit anything else.
You do understand that the Governor could declare martial law, put a curfew in place and deploy the National Guard right?
Does that include confiscating firearms?
I've only seen that happen once and it's generally not a good idea. One of the "rules" that change temporarily down here after a hurricane is local law enforcement has to accept the fact that EVERYONE is armed and they aren't being checked for carry permits.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 18:01
For those of you that aren't following the local stations that have more coverage, looting was as recent as Tuesday night last I recall.
The moment some dickhead soaks a rag with alcohol and stuffs it in a bottle, it is no longer a peaceful gathering.
KMOV had plenty of coverage of the 2 or 3 putting one together last night. Rocks and bricks were thrown at officers last night. One officer was struck in the head with a molotov cocktail but the riot gear did its job.
Plus Boone's Farm usually doesn't do well in that application.
Police forces were at the ready, but all local accounts say they did not order to disperse until things were thrown.
Schools were supposed to start Monday but this unrest has caused closings till next Monday.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
That was earlier in the night as I mentioned in a few different posts. I watched a live stream and nothing was thrown for a long time before police attacked the crowd.
The people doing that were a small minority and probably left well before any police action. They are also on video/photos so ID'ing them later is certainly possible.
MorphCross
08-14-14, 18:01
I disagree... that's all I can say. I respect your view but this is not LA.
Damn straight, the riots didn't start until after a verdict in the four officers trial. Oops, was I not supposed to mention that?
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 18:05
Then deal with them if that happens. Until then the rest of them have the right to protest. The reason matters not. I don't have to agree with their reasoning to support their rights. I said the same thing about the Westboro idiots.
It’s called a show of force/command presence i.e. maintain some form of control amidst the chaos.
I use to be on my department's crowd control unit, when the Westboro idiots came to our city to protest a fallen Soldier's funeral they went through the proper channels, obtained a permit to protest, and gave the date time and location. We ended up protecting them more than anything from pissed off Vets lol.
The people in Ferguson have a right to peacefully assemble sure. A mob "peaceful" or not obstructing traffic in public roadways is another matter. Tensions are high there on all sides; the LEOs have had plenty of death threats via signs/social media/chants to murder the police. Not to mention the "protestors" with Molotov cocktails. They would be insane not to have loaded weapons in that environment.
I disagree... that's all I can say. I respect your view but this is not LA.
This has the "potential" to be LA and a sufficient population that will permit it to happen. It just hasn't become LA yet and law enforcement is trying to prevent that from happening. What I'm trying to explain is if law enforcement doesn't get things under control it can get lots worse.
Now certainly some things are completely wrong. Pointing weapons at non threats is just wrong. It's as wrong as when LAPD lit up the wrong pickup truck during the whole Chris Dorner thing. Those officers should probably be suspended and if not fired, completely retrained.
When law enforcement is wrong, I have no problem calling them out. But at the same time, when a racially motivated crowd is protesting the shooting of a kid who went for a cops gun, then that crowd really shouldn't expect a large degree of latitude, especially when they already went ahead and tore shit up.
If there had been no rioting, looting or violence then we'd be talking about something entirely different. But that isn't what happened so here we are.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 18:10
When law enforcement is wrong, I have no problem calling them out. But at the same time, when a racially motivated crowd is protesting the shooting of a kid who went for a cops gun, then that crowd really shouldn't expect a large degree of latitude, especially when they already went ahead and tore shit up.
If there had been no rioting, looting or violence then we'd be talking about something entirely different. But that isn't what happened so here we are.
This.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 18:13
Hardly the same situation. First this situation is temporary. They haven't banned the rights to protest by law permanently.
It's a lot like this. Your bank gets robbed at 3pm. At 4pm you wish to make a deposit to your account. But the FBI has the parking lot blocked off and inform you it's a "crime scene" and deny you access to your bank." Now in a perfect world you shouldn't lose your banking privileges because of the actions of criminals. But that is what happens...temporarily.
Nobody has lost their rights to peacefully protest. Problem is right now there is no guarantee those protests will be peaceful and for all you, me or anyone else knows if the police didn't shut down that protest AFTER THEY EVEN ANNOUNCED that it was no longer a "peaceful protest" it could have gone in any direction including being the worst night of rioting seen so far.
And quite honestly there shouldn't be any protests until AFTER the investigation and any trial or sentencing. But people decided to just go ahead and be violent and destructive and the police have to bring that environment under control before they permit anything else.
You do understand that the Governor could declare martial law, put a curfew in place and deploy the National Guard right?
Not even close. You don't have a right to be on bank property or interfere with an investigation. Privileges aren't rights.
So temporary rights restrictions are ok because of others actions?
Deal with them if they turn to looting again. Not shut everyone out and prevent people from exercising their rights. Not every single person there is looking to conduct illegal acts or throw stuff at the police. All I have seen suggests those are a small minority. This isn't the LA or Watts riots.
Eurodriver
08-14-14, 18:14
In blue like they used to.
To restore public trust they should dress like people there to restore order, not an occupying military force. There is no need for digi-cam in an urban law enforcement operation.
If you want the public's trust, perception and image go a long way. When LE starts looking like what people have seen on their tv's in Iraq and Afghanistan for the past decade they're going to be met with distrust.
Damn straight. 1996 St Petersburg, FL riots. White cop shot a black teen who was trying to run him over. City went ape shit. Guess what though? Police wore blue, they didn't look like an occupation force, and they got everything under control without any serious injuries or deaths. I guess because cops don't have to wear plates for 7+ months straight and get to go home to their families every night they have a different perspective of playing dress up than the actual army. Everybody wanna look like billy badass but ain't nobody wanna sign up for (or stay with) the real deal.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/21/images/tb_lgtyronlead.jpg
It’s called a show of force/command presence i.e. maintain some form of control amidst the chaos.
I use to be on my department's crowd control unit, when the Westboro idiots came to our city to protest a fallen Soldier's funeral they went through the proper channels, obtained a permit to protest, and gave the date time and location. We ended up protecting them more than anything from pissed off Vets lol.
The people in Ferguson have a right to peacefully assemble sure. A mob "peaceful" or not obstructing traffic in public roadways is another matter. Tensions are high there on all sides; the LEOs have had plenty of death threats via signs/social media/chants to murder the police. Not to mention the "protestors" with Molotov cocktails. They would be insane not to have loaded weapons in that environment.
And that is one of the things people are missing. In the video the guy from Infowars calls out the other guy for throwing a molotov cocktail and stresses that "isn't what we are here for." He even thanks another for putting the fire out and they both agree that "they aren't trying to send that message."
But the commentary does not negate the action. Despite the objections of the commentator or the actions of the person who put the fire out, somebody did IN FACT throw a Molotov cocktail and it could have just as easily burned down the home of some innocent citizen who had nothing to do with anything.
So anyone who tries to qualify that incident as "peaceful protesting" is seriously going along with a bias. And I don't think for a second that there was only a single "lone bad apple" in the crowd. And it really doesn't take very many to turn what was supposed to be a "peaceful protest" into a "night of violence."
Clearly the peaceful protestors weren't controlling the violent elements, otherwise there wouldn't have been Molotov cocktails in the first place let alone any actually being used. So the people who were "peaceful" absolutely weren't dictating anything. And that is why the police had to step in and take control of the situation, and they did it with a shit ton of prior warning.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 18:19
when a racially motivated crowd is protesting the shooting of a kid who went for a cops gun, then that crowd really shouldn't expect a large degree of latitude
So the reason why they're protesting changes the police response? What if the PD doesnt like Tea Party whitey protesting and changes their response but allows OWS more 'latitude'?
I don't want any gov agency changing how they handle people because of something like that. That's how we got Lerner targeting Tea Party types.
Not even close. You don't have a right to be on bank property or interfere with an investigation. Privileges aren't rights.
So temporary rights restrictions are ok because of others actions?
Deal with them if they turn to looting again. Not shut everyone out and prevent people from exercising their rights. Not every single person there is looking to conduct illegal acts or throw stuff at the police. All I have seen suggests those are a small minority. This isn't the LA or Watts riots.
Even in the video a guy had and threw a Molotov. What more "violent action" do you need? If I go outside and throw a Molotov cocktail at nobody, I'm still going to be arrested.
If you want to have a peaceful protest, control the protest and make sure people aren't bringing things like Molotov cocktails. Then you can wave signs and chant all night long and the police will stand there and watch you wave signs and chant.
Somebody did something to make the police determine the protests "was no longer peaceful." And it wasn't because a bunch of cops decided holding their line was boring and they wanted some action.
.46caliber
08-14-14, 18:21
Not even close. You don't have a right to be on bank property or interfere with an investigation. Privileges aren't rights.
So temporary rights restrictions are ok because of others actions?
Deal with them if they turn to looting again. Not shut everyone out and prevent people from exercising their rights. Not every single person there is looking to conduct illegal acts or throw stuff at the police. All I have seen suggests those are a small minority. This isn't the LA or Watts riots.
Dealing with something like this after its become a problem is too late. We use this same argument as to why we should be able to rely on our own force for protection rather than being satisfied with calling 911 and waiting. If police don't ready till the first brick is thrown, we'll see another Zisser Tire destroyed or another QT burned out.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
So the reason why they're protesting changes the police response? What if the PD doesnt like Tea Party whitey protesting and changes their response but allows OWS more 'latitude'?
I don't want any gov agency changing how they handle people because of something like that. That's how we got Lerner targeting Tea Party types.
If you don't understand the difference between a racially biased group of protesters and the political targeting of specific groups I'm wasting my time. In your comparison the "black community" of protestors is actually the IRS.
And so neither of us has to keep tying what we've already established until midnight, I think I'm gonna leave it at that. We understand what each other is saying, probably agree to some extent on basic premises, but largely disagree on the specifics of this particular situation and I don't think that will change until evidence regarding the original event becomes clearer.
NCPatrolAR
08-14-14, 18:28
In blue like they used to.
To restore public trust they should dress like people there to restore order, not an occupying military force. There is no need for digi-cam in an urban law enforcement operation.
If you want the public's trust, perception and image go a long way. When LE starts looking like what people have seen on their tv's in Iraq and Afghanistan for the past decade they're going to be met with distrust.
So changing their uniforms to a different color would restore trust? Yeah ok
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 18:29
Dealing with something like this after its become a problem is too late. We use this same argument as to why we should be able to rely on our own force for protection rather than being satisfied with calling 911 and waiting. If police don't ready till the first brick is thrown, we'll see another Zisser Tire destroyed or another QT burned out.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
I didn't say anything about not being ready. I don't think being ready means pointing long guns at people. I also don't think riot control means staffing your line with SWAT teams and live firearms.
.46caliber
08-14-14, 18:32
27962
I lol'd.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 18:33
So changing their uniforms to a different color would restore trust? Yeah ok
Not completely but not looking like soldiers in the WOT would probably be a good step to take. Image is an important facet in how we perceive others.
I lol'd.
Seemed appropriate for this thread.
How should police dress in crowd control situations?
I think that the issue is much broader then that, its the intentional projection of being an invading military armed to the teeth that is alienating LE from the people they are sworn to serve. A cop should certainly have access to a riot shield, and a baton, that is perfectly reasonable. I am not good with any other aspect of the force projection that they are presenting, its not American. I don't think any reasonable person disputes that certain measures can or should be implemented, specific actions taken, I certainly don't. However the issue here is rapidly evolving to encompass the spectacle surrounding the arms display of LE, which is just beyond the pale of any acceptable civilian necessity, and the seemingly arrogant, irresponsible manner, in which much of it has been deployed! Its also reasonable to conclude that people have had enough of these special agents having easy access to weapons and equipment that are uniformly denied to the citizenry, or of agents geared up as good as any combat soldier, while roaming the streets of America, eyeballing every citizen as though they are an enemy combatant, leveling automatic weapons on civilians, painting Americans backs with laser beams, ect... I'm fine with a patrol officers having 18 shot 9mm pistols and kevlar vests, I am not fine with them toting around select fire rifles & carbines, or even possessing them in their cars, or running the streets in armored vehicles designed specifically for the combat zones encountered by the armed forces of the United States. I am still appalled by the spectacle surrounding the Boston bombing in which hundreds of select fire weapon toting "operators" freely roamed the streets subjugating the meek, passive people of Boston, much like an invading army, in more than a few instances forcing their way into innocent Bostonian homes at gunpoint.
This has gotten out of hand, one of the primary reasons it has, is the "alienating ninja clad presence and overwhelming projections of military force" by these agents of the state, toward the citizens of little Ferguson, who also just happen to be American citizens.
Governor puts the Missouri State Troopers in charge....
Here's a photo of the Trooper in charge now of LEO activity related to the Ferguson situation. He is speaking at a press conference, on his far left is the County Executive of Saint Louis County, then the Mayor of St. Louis, then the Governor of Missouri.
Smart move, if you ask me.
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/ce/2cee36f2-4f2b-595d-9fbe-c4339f2e2e16/53ed2ba48b00e.preview-620.jpg
Photo caption:
Capt. Ronald S. Johnson, a St. Louis area native, pledged to protect Ferguson while allowing protesters and marchers to have their say. He said he wants to rebuild trust and respect in the community.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 18:46
How dare he allow protestors and try to rebuild trust. He must be biased and anti LE!
Eurodriver
08-14-14, 18:48
So changing their uniforms to a different color would restore trust? Yeah ok
I don't know if you're intentionally trivializing his point or if you really don't understand what kind of presence you have in a situation like that. Either way, it's pretty scary.
Instead of looking out your front door and seeing some ubiquitious M16A2 assault rifle General Bruce Willis Godzilla remake type shit going on, you could see guys dressed like normal human beings there to protect you. This was one of the same issues we ran into Iraq and AFG. Locals don't see us as "humans" because we roll in driving big ass armored vehicles wearing balaclavas, cammies, gloves, helmets, body armor, and carrying assault rifles. How on earth can you trust someone when he doesn't trust you enough to take off his helmet or show you his face? Add in the fact that most LEOs are white in a black community (like white Marines in a Muslim country) and you've just got a total "us vs. them" atmosphere. This is a documented issue in OIF/OEF. I'm not making it up. Do you think humans in Missouri are somehow different than humans in Iraq?
Of course, LEOs could also stop shooting unarmed teens in the back and arresting everyone for bogus drug charges but I guess that needs to change at the government, not PD, level.
I think that the issue is much broader then that, its the intentional projection of being an invading military armed to the teeth that is alienating LE from the people they are sworn to serve. A cop should certainly have access to a riot shield, and a baton, that is perfectly reasonable. I am not good with any other aspect of the force projection that they are presenting, its not American. I don't think any reasonable person disputes that certain measures can or should be implemented, specific actions taken, I certainly don't. However the issue here is rapidly evolving to encompass the spectacle surrounding the arms display of LE, which is just beyond the pale of any acceptable civilian necessity, and the seemingly arrogant, irresponsible manner, in which much of it has been deployed! Its also reasonable to conclude that people have had enough of these special agents having easy access to weapons and equipment that are uniformly denied to the citizenry, or of agents geared up as good as any combat soldier, while roaming the streets of America, eyeballing every citizen as though they are an enemy combatant, leveling automatic weapons on civilians, painting Americans backs with laser beams, ect... I'm fine with a patrol officers having 18 shot 9mm pistols and kevlar vests, I am not fine with them toting around select fire rifles & carbines, or even possessing them in their cars, or running the streets in armored vehicles designed specifically for the combat zones encountered by the armed forces of the United States. I am still appalled by the spectacle surrounding the Boston bombing in which hundreds of select fire weapon toting "operators" freely roamed the streets subjugating the meek, passive people of Boston, much like an invading army, in more than a few instances forcing their way into innocent Bostonian homes at gunpoint.
This has gotten out of hand, one of the primary reasons it has, is the "alienating ninja clad presence and overwhelming projections of military force" by these agents of the state, toward the citizens of little Ferguson, who also just happen to be American citizens.They are an invading army. And should be thought of as such. They are not your friends.
So changing their uniforms to a different color would restore trust? Yeah ok
No, it won't completely. And you'll always have a segment of society that doesn't trust the police simply because they're the police.
But when regular people start wondering why the police look like Army Rangers as opposed to the police they're used to seeing you're gonna start losing their trust.
So changing their uniforms to a different color would restore trust? Yeah ok
According to the former Chief of Seattle PD. (http://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6002451/ferguson-police-militarization-seattle)
Keeping the peace at a demonstration essentially means having police officers in standard everyday uniforms not military garb...
If they're out there in military gear from the beginning that's an act of provocation.
ETA - The link is a very interesting interview I posted earlier but probably got overlooked due to the amount of posting in this thread.
This has the "potential" to be LA and a sufficient population that will permit it to happen.
Hell it has the potential for the police to kill some more people too. Neither are likely to happen if they back off.
I don't quite follow your logic here. In Fla after a 'cane everyone polices themselves with concealed carry no license check. But these people can't now police themselves? If that is truly the case then it's high time they learned. I honestly think they will be just fine without the perceived presence of a Military force sweeping the streets.... and that is exactly what the authorities did in that video. Go home, go get inside your house, this is not a curfew, you are forewarned, here we come.... smoke and bullet time... which gave cover to the so called m-cocktail btw.
The police manufactured last night what you see on the news tonight. I'm not saying what they did three days ago was inappropriate. I'm saying what they are doing now is to a considerable degree. So from a potential standpoint, yeah, there's all sorts of potential.
I mean if you want to draw comparisons to times past... let's say this town is a nice little house with a picket fence. Nice green lawn and oh yeah, when the night time rolls around it has a nice cross burning on the front lawn. Just to be sure everyone keeps it in line the next day. I am certain that the town of Ferguson is not represented by 187 LEO tags on a wall. There is no excuse to continue this behavior by such a lopsided power.
What did it prove? What did lighting up that street prove? That the cops have a bunch of cool toys and can make the people get up on the sidewalk. Or that they can make people run from bullets? ... and tomorrow after a good nights sleep the citizens are supposed to say .... yeah,,, these are the good guys. The police need to back off in a realistic manner... they are making themselves look bad now with these methods.
I'm not saying all they did was wrong only that it's time to change course. They are instilling fear and resentment now. The initial reactions were superficial now they will become engrained which will only make things worse.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 19:12
So the reason why they're protesting changes the police response? What if the PD doesnt like Tea Party whitey protesting and changes their response but allows OWS more 'latitude'?
When did Tea Party whitey burn down buildings last? Pull truckers out of their cabs and smash their brains in with cinder blocks? Loot shopping centers? Make threats against the police? Call for mass violence against another race via Twitter?
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 19:21
When did Tea Party whitey burn down buildings last? Pull truckers out of their cabs and smash their brains in with cinder blocks? Loot shopping centers? Make threats against the police? Call for mass violence against another race via Twitter?
I was responding to a specific statement about them being given less latitude because of the nature of their reason for protesting.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 19:21
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_b401feba-b49e-5b79-8926-19481191726f.html?mobile_touch=true
http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_b401feba-b49e-5b79-8926-19481191726f.html?mobile_touch=true
So he agrees with the Seattle PD Chief... Interesting. Some people in law enforcement call that a clue.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/missouri-ferguson-police-tactics/index.html
But some security experts say the police actions made things much worse.
"You're in trouble when your SWAT team is on the front line of dealing with a civil disturbance," retired Lt. Gen. Russel Honore said Thursday.
In 2005, Honore was dispatched to New Orleans to lead recovery efforts after Hurricane Katrina, when the federal government said it was facing "urban warfare." Honore famously told police to lower their weapons and defused the tense situation.
"I've seen this done successfully in the past where you have your front line policemen on the front until people start throwing things. Then you have your riot control squads in the back," Honore said on "CNN Newsroom" on Thursday. "The tactics they are using, I don't know where they learned them from. It appears they may be making them up on the way. But this is escalating the situation."
You're in trouble when your SWAT team is on the front line of dealing with a civil disturbance.
retired Lt. Gen. Russel Honore
"Any time we have policemen pointing weapons at American citizens, they need to go through retraining," Honor added. "And I think we are about 24 hours too late."
Amen to everything that General said. My feeling exactly.
But when regular people start wondering why the police look like Army Rangers as opposed to the police they're used to seeing you're gonna start losing their trust.I have to agree with this statement. When the police wear military style attire (cover face/armor/no ID marking) it makes them seem less like the friendly peace officer and more like a modern Gestapo. Hiding ones face shows as bad intentions, why most of the looters where covering theirs. This is why everyday Joe Nobody has a fear of both sides at times. I'm not trying to pick a side in this subject, more of trying to say how some citizens may see it.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 19:38
So he agrees with the Seattle PD Chief... Interesting. Some people in law enforcement call that a clue.
Big city CLEOs are typically liberal and are politically appointed. They will say anything that makes them look good, i.e. politically correct.
Seattle dealt with the WTO/anarchist types that flew into the city for the summit, they did not have a racially motivated local mob on their hands.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 19:38
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/missouri-ferguson-police-tactics/index.html
Exactly. SWAT on the skirmish line with hot weapons pointed at people isn't how you diffuse the situation. Nor is roughing up reporters and shooting tear gas at them. As I said earlier this may be a clue as why someone else is in charge now. Hopefully a bit of rational behavior can keeps things peaceful tonight and diffuse things instead of the show and use of force we've seen so far.
Cop @ 15 seconds in - "Bring it, you ****ing animals, bring it, I don't give a ****!"
http://youtu.be/Wgjkvaod2cQ
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 19:41
Big city CLEOs are typically liberal and are politically appointed. They will say anything that makes them look good, i.e. politically correct.
Seattle dealt with the WTO/anarchist types that flew into the city for the summit, they did not have a racially motivated local mob on their hands.
So what's the solution? Pointing guns at people and acting aggressively?
Big city CLEOs are typically liberal and are politically appointed. They will say anything that makes them look good, i.e. politically correct.
Yep. But, the interview with the Seattle former Chief says the same shit and dude's retired with nothing to gain.
I think most of us would agree about most stuff over a beer, seriously. The written word's tough, we're reading different stuff and we interpret things differently. All that aside I don't take any of this personally and appreciate the spirited debate in this thread. Everybody's kept it cool and impersonal, which is key. Have a safe night gents.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 19:44
So what's the solution?
Tell people to go home, cess and desist and all that.
Pointing guns at people and acting aggressively?
If fire bombs, bricks, are being thrown from the crowd . . . yes.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 19:45
I think most of us would agree about most stuff over a beer, seriously. The written word's tough, we're reading different stuff and we interpret things differently. All that aside I don't take any of this personally and appreciate the spirited debate in this thread. Everybody's kept it cool and impersonal, which is key. Have a safe night gents.
Absolutely bro. We'll be talking about this for weeks to come as we ALL discover new details.
NCPatrolAR
08-14-14, 19:46
I guess because cops don't have to wear plates for 7+ months straight and get to go home to their families every night they have a different perspective of playing dress up than the actual army. Everybody wanna look like billy badass but ain't nobody wanna sign up for (or stay with) the real deal
Maybe you should join the actual police force and show all of us how we're just a bunch of posers while you're such a billy badass
Maybe you should join the actual police force and show all of us how we're just a bunch of posers while you're such a billy badass
As site staff you don't think this reply ratchets up the temperature of the discourse here? Yeah, what you replied to wasn't giving a warm fuzzy but I'm still waiting for points to expire for essentially replying in the same tone as that (it wasn't you who assigned the points) in another cop thread last month.
Please tell us more about how this situation should be properly handled tier 1 Monday morning qb's!
"I guess because cops don't have to wear plates for 7+ months straight and get to go home to their families every night they have a different perspective of playing dress up than the actual army. Everybody wanna look like billy badass but ain't nobody wanna sign up for (or stay with) the real deal"
And that^^^^ is some hilarious stuff right there. Do you ever think that most of those guys are more than likely former military, ding dong. I know my coworkers are about 85-90% former or current military. Also, im sure they'd rather be doing something else besides babysitting a bunch of Neanderthals that cant act like civilized human beings.
NCPatrolAR
08-14-14, 19:55
As site staff you don't think this reply ratchets up the temperature of the discourse here? Yeah, what you replied to wasn't giving a warm fuzzy but I'm still waiting for points to expire for essentially replying in the same tone as that (it wasn't you who assigned the points) in another cop thread last month.
Ratchet it up? Not at all because Euro has already managed to handle that all on his own.
And one of the keys to being staff around here is knowing where the line is when it comes to whats an insult and whats calling someone on some BS they say. My statement was very much the latter, but if people feel differently then they are more than welcome to send a PM to a senior staff member. :)
wildcard600
08-14-14, 20:08
Lots of painting with broad brushes in here. some of you are as bad as the instigators/protesters.
good day gentlemen.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.