View Full Version : Rifles of the IDF
I was watching some videos of the IDF recently and noticed that a large portion of them were still using M4/AR type rifles. I had thought that they completely switched to the Tavor. Some guys had M4s and some guys had short barreled A1 type carbines. It seems like the IDF has several different rifles in the field. Anyone have info on these rifles?
EDIT:
Here is the video Im talking about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuGYQrapECI
Some good Tavor footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pywx1rRXbHU
Spit balling to beat hell here, but would assume that the first line/main line troops are running the tavor with the guard/second line/reserve people getting what is available, but it M4s, M16s, or the like. With everything that is going on and call ups it is more than plausible that reserve units are on the fronts being seen with their older rifles. Again don't know for sure, but that would be my thoughts.
I think the most interesting rifle the IDF uses is the suppressed Ruger 10/22. Also has a very interesting purpose....
"In 1987, the Intifada – the Palestinian uprising against the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories – broke out, and involved mass violent clashes between Israeli security forces and Palestinians protestors. As a result, the Israeli security forces needed a weapon with a more potent firepower then the standard riot control metal covered rubber round, but at the same time less lethal then the standard issue 5.56 mm round of the M16/Galil assault rifles. So the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) searched for a 0.22 caliber accurate rifle that will be used to take out the key protest leaders by shooting them in the legs.
The Ruger 10/22, fitted with a X4 day optic, a full length suppressor and a Harris bipod was selected for this role and was due to be issued to all infantry oriented units, including both special and conventional forces. However, as often happens in the shoestring budget IDF, financial problems prevented the weapon’s mass distribution, and it was mainly issued to Special Forces (SF) units. Moreover, instead of using the rifle as a riot control weapon, as originally intended, the Israeli SF deployed the Ruger 10/22 more as a “Hush Puppy” weapon used to silently and effectively eliminate disturbing dogs prior to operations.
In the recent Israeli-Palestinian clashes began in 2000, the Ruger resumes it’s original role as a less lethal riot control weapon. However, it’s usage in this role was rather controversial this time. After several incidents involving the death of Palestinians by the Ruger fire, the IDF conducted a field experiment in the Ruger at the IDF Sniper School in Mitkan Adam under the supervision of the IDF Judge Advocate General (JAG). The test showed that the Ruger was more lethal then thought especially in upper body injuries. Also, since it’s suppressed and was considered less lethal by the troops, the soldiers were much more likely to use the Ruger loosely then intended.
As a result of this test, the JAG reclassified the Ruger as a lethal weapon. As a lethal weapon, the usage of the Ruger in riot control is much more limited today. In the IDF Center Command it was completely prohibited to use and the IDF South Command it’s deployment was cut down dramatically."
http://www.ruger1022.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/6.jpg
http://www.ruger1022.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/7.jpg
http://www.ruger1022.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/8.jpg
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm
Recently on CNN, I spotted one in use in the most current conflict.
Yeah I remember reading that. Isnt that where the subsonic 60 grain 22 LR came from?
MorphCross
08-14-14, 00:26
I would say that in all cases the mission they are performing is one of the determining factors for the issuing of arms. Also many of the units using M4s and M16s were made up of older enlistees. It takes time to cycle members of IDF out unless they are just there to perform their civic duty for the required period of time.
MountainRaven
08-14-14, 00:38
Despite the Galil having been replaced by the AR, I seem to remember seeing footage of Israelis during their last foray into Lebanon with Galil SARs. They were mechanized artillerists, IIRC.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 02:38
The IDF has caches of FALs, AKs, Galils, M16s, Tavors, it would stand to reason some units especially the part timers are issued older stuff while the newer whiz bang stuff is getting fazed in as budget allows. The US tax payers provide a lot of money for defense and arms to include the M16/M4. Small nations like Israel and Finland have a lot of rifles, especially Kalashnikovs put back to pass around incase they face an end game invasion. Wished our .gov thought that way . . .
MorphCross
08-14-14, 02:58
The IDF has caches of FALs, AKs, Galils, M16s, Tavors, it would stand to reason some units especially the part timers are issued older stuff while the newer whiz bang stuff is getting fazed in as budget allows. The US tax payers provide a lot of money for defense and arms to include the M16/M4. Small nations like Israel and Finland have a lot of rifles, especially Kalashnikovs put back to pass around incase they face an end game invasion. Wished our .gov thought that way . . .
And here I thought the US had an unorganized militia of about 80,000,000 strong?
And here I thought the US had an unorganized militia of about 80,000,000 strong?
And they will NEVER be used.
always thought the suppressed 10/22 was a slick setup :)
wish 22 ammo was not in such price gouge mode love the 22 :)
heard some interesting stories of a Vietnam buddy and his hushpuppy and how he used it sometimes
I visited Israel in May and took an interest in the rifles I saw all the soldiers walking around with, here is the trends I noted.
The young regular army recruits (Olive Green Uniforms) have a mix of M4 variants (many old as hell, worn down to the aluminum) and Micro Tavor, and the Micro Tavor is taking over as the issue gun. Interestingly I saw only one or two of the big early Tavor like on sale in the USA.
The various militarized police recruits I saw (Gray/Green uniforms) all had various M4 variants, as dis the Air Force guys/girls.
Finally I ran into an Israeli SOF guy in Jerusalem, he was carrying a camo painted, railed SBR M4, with lights, lasers and a Magpul stock. Basically set up how any western SOF would do an M4. We talked a bit on the subject of Tavor vs M4 and he said his "special unit" definitely preferred the M4 as a fighting weapon because of ergonomics, handling, shootability and particularly speed of reloads.
We talked a bit on the subject of Tavor vs M4 and he said his "special unit" definitely preferred the M4 as a fighting weapon because of ergonomics, handling, shootability and particularly speed of reloads.
Pretty much the universal complaint. The bullpup fellas will be here soon to burn you at the stake.
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Moose-Knuckle
08-14-14, 17:04
Finally I ran into an Israeli SOF guy in Jerusalem, he was carrying a camo painted, railed SBR M4, with lights, lasers and a Magpul stock. Basically set up how any western SOF would do an M4. We talked a bit on the subject of Tavor vs M4 and he said his "special unit" definitely preferred the M4 as a fighting weapon because of ergonomics, handling, shootability and particularly speed of reloads.
Yup, when JSOC can get anything they want it says something when they stick with an AR based rifle like the HK416. Same with British, Aussi, and Kiwi SAS.
MorphCross
08-14-14, 18:20
Pretty much the universal complaint. The bullpup fellas will be here soon to burn you at the stake.
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Hey now, no generalizing of Bullpup owners. I can see the definite positives of SF types in IDF utilizing a system with as much versatility as a SBR M4.
Bedouin Units in North Israel like the Tavor because it is a compact as Short barrel M4 but has better exterior ballistics in the wider open spaces they perform in.
MountainRaven
08-14-14, 20:35
And they will NEVER be used.
Not likely to be needed, either, unless there's to be a Second Mexican-American War.
Belmont31R
08-14-14, 20:48
We do the same thing. I saw some reservists or guard with an m60 in 2006.
We do the same thing. I saw some reservists or guard with an m60 in 2006.
True. In 05 I got on a Chinook that had 60s.
Yeah I remember reading that. Isnt that where the subsonic 60 grain 22 LR came from?
I'm not sure, but the Aguila .22lr SSS 60gr. round is by far my favorite .22 round to shoot with. Incredibly quiet, accurate, and packs a serious punch for a pee shooter.
Fellow member horseman234 who doesn't have enough posts yet to participate in GD sent me a cpl neat links regarding this topic, and figured I would share them on his behalf.
"Here are a couple of links to doubletapper who is former IDF and currently has a couple of sons on deployment. He blogs about guns and Isreal at doubletapper.blogspot.com and has a facebook page with more pictures called doubletapperisreal. However the most interesting is his Facebook page called IDF women.
doubletapper.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/IDFWomenOfIsrael
I worked with the IDF earlier this year, and the units working with us (two or three, about 200 guys) almost all had some form of ar. Few had a weird 249 variant. We asked them about the favor and they just laughed and said "yea right". They then proceeded to try and buy my m27 from me.
Hey now, no generalizing of Bullpup owners. I can see the definite positives of SF types in IDF utilizing a system with as much versatility as a SBR M4.
Bedouin Units in North Israel like the Tavor because it is a compact as Short barrel M4 but has better exterior ballistics in the wider open spaces they perform in.
Not generalizing bullpup owners, I'm generalizing folks who don't like bullpups.
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