TehLlama
08-15-14, 20:53
This actually is a carryover from a random facebook discussion I've had with a few friends, but I've realized that (unsurprisingly) I am an unabashed 1911 snob, but that the biggest reason why: didn't have very much to do with the 1911's I had, but how good a properly set up 9mm double stack pistol can be.
Part of the blame for this lies squarely with Grant of G&R Tactical, and that is in every way a good thing. My first encounter with the S&W M&P in 9mm I had most of the complaints of others - they lack the Glock-like tactile reset, the trigger pull was decent but very much left some to be desired, and at the time spare magazines were challenging to source, but most importantly for me, it was a pistol that pointed well, had decent sights, and had the 17+1 magazine capacity that makes modern polymer 9mm pistols attractive.
With the release of the Apex Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit (DCAEK), my interest peaked further, and I bought the first of my M&P9's from Grant - the trigger feel with just the DCAEK was better, the pull weight was closer to the other pistols I had, and importantly the complete price (with installed trigger from G&R) placed this under the price of my cheapest 1911. I ran this pistol at a couple carbine courses, and even at the local city range while on leave, and realized that I could make consistent hits at 25, and even 50yds; I could even make inconsistent hits on 2x4' gongs at 200yd (~5 hits per magazine, tired at the end of the day). At this point I was already eying my two sub-$1000 1911's and trying to justify their continued cost, especially since 45ACP factory ammunition has started hovering around twice the price of 9mm. I'd like to try the RAM setup with the DCAEK, but that became less relevant after the next Apex release.
The bigger difference came with the Apex Forward Set Sear + Trigger Kit (FSS), with the build-in RAM setup. Not only is the takeup reduced, but the straighter trigger pull (and more GSA-like trigger safety) and more consistent feeling pull weight (more 1911-like) were all improvements. Again, another complete pistol from G&R with this installed, and this is the final break-point on where I stopped viewing budget 1911's as good value fighting tool. Even at current cost (S&W's MSRP pricing has nudged up on the base setup, Apex Tactical Specialties has been 'found' as a solution for making an M&P into a modernized pistol with good competition/duty triggers) taking a brand new M&P full size in 9mm, having an FSS kit installed, and putting good sights on it still bring the cost right in line with a base 1911 from Springfield or Colt, which are arguably the best offerings in the sub-$1000 price range (specifically the Springfield MC Operator, and Colt XSE Rail Gun). Mostly, anything but those two 1911 which I hold in really high regard, the M&P [or to be honest, a G17/G19 with good aftermarket sights, grip reduction, Vickers mag catch, and some light trigger work] is already a better shooter, with the 1911 only holding advantage in IWB concealability (thickness), and a slightly straighter trigger pull. With a match barrel (Again, G&R Storm Lake is where I'd be looking if I was in any way unhappy with the accuracy of my current pair of M&P 9's) the mechanical accuracy between them is back to remarkably close, at least within the entry level costs for a semi-custom 1911 it's possible to have a completely dialed M&P or Glock pistol (with sights, barrel, trigger, frame work) with cash to spare to stock up a lot more magazines. The final difference is availability of quality magazines - I'm down to just my dozen Wilson 8rd, half dozen CMC 8/10rd, and couple of Tripp Cobra magazines for my 1911s, while in terms of practical capacity I'm completely happy with just my 8 M&P 9mm magazines and 5 Shield 9mm magazines for those.
I really agree with a lot of the cited reasons Hilton Yam has mentioned about why carrying a 1911 in the second century of John Moses Browning's design being extant, but it's really condensed to just a few cases where the excellence of the trigger (on a well-tuned 1911 - this excludes most of the cheap ones), relative concealability of a full sized platform (5" or 4.25"), and a case where a really well sorted 1911 can be so enjoyable to shoot that the user will be more proficient with that platform over any other - but all of these tend to require a very good (not RIA, or a cheap GI clone) 1911 to be reasonable. I'd submit that in the price gap between a well sorted M&P9 or G17/19 as described above, to have a 1911 that does anything better than either of those platforms (except simply BE a 1911) requires spending enough to be into the semi-custom end of the 1911 world. As high an opinion I have of the two best ~$1k options, those still could benefit greatly from light trigger/extractor/feed ramp work and some aftermarket grips, bringing the overall price to par with a moderately pimped out polymer 9mm package. Price in a pistol course/prudent number of spare magazines of sufficient quality, and 500rds of ammunition to get really familiar with the pistol, and and I'm really starting to lean towards anything listing 'is a 1911' as a feature needs to bring more to the list - which in parlance of modern 1911's means features that translate into seriously expensive hardware.
I've come to terms with this logic, and realized that this makes me a 1911 snob - I have a couple 1911's I'd choose to carry over any of my S&W tupperware specials, but those are about 3x the price of the alternatives, and practical primarily because of how much thought went into pistols like the NHC 10-8 pistol. I have lost my justification for owning 'mediocre' 1911's, because a good striker fired 9mm pistol can shoot nearly as well, and include every other advantageous feature that has come with the last century of materials science.
Part of the blame for this lies squarely with Grant of G&R Tactical, and that is in every way a good thing. My first encounter with the S&W M&P in 9mm I had most of the complaints of others - they lack the Glock-like tactile reset, the trigger pull was decent but very much left some to be desired, and at the time spare magazines were challenging to source, but most importantly for me, it was a pistol that pointed well, had decent sights, and had the 17+1 magazine capacity that makes modern polymer 9mm pistols attractive.
With the release of the Apex Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit (DCAEK), my interest peaked further, and I bought the first of my M&P9's from Grant - the trigger feel with just the DCAEK was better, the pull weight was closer to the other pistols I had, and importantly the complete price (with installed trigger from G&R) placed this under the price of my cheapest 1911. I ran this pistol at a couple carbine courses, and even at the local city range while on leave, and realized that I could make consistent hits at 25, and even 50yds; I could even make inconsistent hits on 2x4' gongs at 200yd (~5 hits per magazine, tired at the end of the day). At this point I was already eying my two sub-$1000 1911's and trying to justify their continued cost, especially since 45ACP factory ammunition has started hovering around twice the price of 9mm. I'd like to try the RAM setup with the DCAEK, but that became less relevant after the next Apex release.
The bigger difference came with the Apex Forward Set Sear + Trigger Kit (FSS), with the build-in RAM setup. Not only is the takeup reduced, but the straighter trigger pull (and more GSA-like trigger safety) and more consistent feeling pull weight (more 1911-like) were all improvements. Again, another complete pistol from G&R with this installed, and this is the final break-point on where I stopped viewing budget 1911's as good value fighting tool. Even at current cost (S&W's MSRP pricing has nudged up on the base setup, Apex Tactical Specialties has been 'found' as a solution for making an M&P into a modernized pistol with good competition/duty triggers) taking a brand new M&P full size in 9mm, having an FSS kit installed, and putting good sights on it still bring the cost right in line with a base 1911 from Springfield or Colt, which are arguably the best offerings in the sub-$1000 price range (specifically the Springfield MC Operator, and Colt XSE Rail Gun). Mostly, anything but those two 1911 which I hold in really high regard, the M&P [or to be honest, a G17/G19 with good aftermarket sights, grip reduction, Vickers mag catch, and some light trigger work] is already a better shooter, with the 1911 only holding advantage in IWB concealability (thickness), and a slightly straighter trigger pull. With a match barrel (Again, G&R Storm Lake is where I'd be looking if I was in any way unhappy with the accuracy of my current pair of M&P 9's) the mechanical accuracy between them is back to remarkably close, at least within the entry level costs for a semi-custom 1911 it's possible to have a completely dialed M&P or Glock pistol (with sights, barrel, trigger, frame work) with cash to spare to stock up a lot more magazines. The final difference is availability of quality magazines - I'm down to just my dozen Wilson 8rd, half dozen CMC 8/10rd, and couple of Tripp Cobra magazines for my 1911s, while in terms of practical capacity I'm completely happy with just my 8 M&P 9mm magazines and 5 Shield 9mm magazines for those.
I really agree with a lot of the cited reasons Hilton Yam has mentioned about why carrying a 1911 in the second century of John Moses Browning's design being extant, but it's really condensed to just a few cases where the excellence of the trigger (on a well-tuned 1911 - this excludes most of the cheap ones), relative concealability of a full sized platform (5" or 4.25"), and a case where a really well sorted 1911 can be so enjoyable to shoot that the user will be more proficient with that platform over any other - but all of these tend to require a very good (not RIA, or a cheap GI clone) 1911 to be reasonable. I'd submit that in the price gap between a well sorted M&P9 or G17/19 as described above, to have a 1911 that does anything better than either of those platforms (except simply BE a 1911) requires spending enough to be into the semi-custom end of the 1911 world. As high an opinion I have of the two best ~$1k options, those still could benefit greatly from light trigger/extractor/feed ramp work and some aftermarket grips, bringing the overall price to par with a moderately pimped out polymer 9mm package. Price in a pistol course/prudent number of spare magazines of sufficient quality, and 500rds of ammunition to get really familiar with the pistol, and and I'm really starting to lean towards anything listing 'is a 1911' as a feature needs to bring more to the list - which in parlance of modern 1911's means features that translate into seriously expensive hardware.
I've come to terms with this logic, and realized that this makes me a 1911 snob - I have a couple 1911's I'd choose to carry over any of my S&W tupperware specials, but those are about 3x the price of the alternatives, and practical primarily because of how much thought went into pistols like the NHC 10-8 pistol. I have lost my justification for owning 'mediocre' 1911's, because a good striker fired 9mm pistol can shoot nearly as well, and include every other advantageous feature that has come with the last century of materials science.