View Full Version : Tendonitis, and "shooters elbow"
Hi, I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this so if it isn't please move it to the appropriate place. Has anyone here developed Tendonitis, or shooters elbow due to shooting high round counts? I recently got back into shooting handgun at a regular weekly/biweekly shooting schedule and I'm developing some pretty bad tendonitis on my left inner forearm and right elbow (tennis elbow). It's compounded by the fact that I recently switched platforms to a Walther PPQ which requires me to have a very firm grip to counter the high recoil of the PPQ. I've never had this problem before shooting my Glocks, but the ultra firm grip my PPQ requires to keep the muzzle flat is literally tearing up my arms. I'm wondering what the solution to this problem is because the pain is to the point where I'm having trouble doing day to day tasks, and the pain is there almost all the time even when I'm not at the range. I just went out and purchased some braces for my elbow and forearm and in dry fire practice it definitely helps a lot. Unfortunately I can't wear a brace all day everyday so I need a long term solution. I shoot about 1200-1500 rounds of 9mm a month, and I dry fire practice everyday for 10-30 minutes using the same firm grip as live fire. Any suggestions? This really sucks.
Heavy Metal
08-17-14, 23:34
Are you locking out your forearms or are you keeping a bit of a bend in your elbows?
I keep a slight bend, shooting modern isosceles
" . . . on my left inner forearm and right elbow . . . "
You may have two different things going on, possibly left medial epicondylitis. Lot less common than lateral epicondylitis--'tennis elbow'. Might want to see your primary care provider to sort things out. Treatments differ and range from simple rest/avoiding the offending activity (no fun) and splints/braces, to PT and more invasive interventions. Not sure if experimenting with the PPQ back straps would help.
For a while I was doing an hour or two of dry fire a night, in addition to a lot of live fire... After a couple of weeks I had some very similar stuff going on.
Rest and one of the wraparound braces seemed to get me back up to speed.
I got the elbow thing very badly a few years ago. I fought it and tried different things for about a year and a half i guess, but it only went away when I quit shooting for six months..
militarymoron
08-18-14, 19:10
" . . . on my left inner forearm and right elbow . . . "
You may have two different things going on, possibly left medial epicondylitis. Lot less common than lateral epicondylitis--'tennis elbow'. Might want to see your primary care provider to sort things out. Treatments differ and range from simple rest/avoiding the offending activity (no fun) and splints/braces, to PT and more invasive interventions. Not sure if experimenting with the PPQ back straps would help.
as i understand it, pain on the inside is medial epicondylitis (golfers/climber's elbow) and on the outside is tennis elbow. also look up tendinosis vs. tendinitis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312643/
i currently am suffering from golfer's/climber's elbow from indoor rock climbing in both my elbows, so i'm taking it easy and following the advice in this article:
http://www.drjuliansaunders.com/resources/feature_articles/dodgy_elbows/
The pain in my left arm is on the inside of the forearm which I'm assuming is golfers/climbers elbow. And the pain in my right arm is on the outside which I'm assuming is tennis elbow. Either way I need to get to a doctor to get it properly diagnosed and treated. In the meantime, I've found some stretching exercises that have been tremondously helpful in eliminating the pain. This one for my left arm http://www.healthymoves-pa.com/documents/ForearmFlexorsstretch.pdf. And this one for my right arm (the tennis elbow stretch) http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/8038850/lateral-epicondylitis-tennis-elbow-physioadvis.htm. Stretching both my arms with these procedures have virtually eliminated the pain and my arms feel almost completely back to normal, hard to believe with just some stretching. I'm going to take this week off from shooting/dry firing along with continued stretching and see how I feel after a week. If it comes back the it's definitely time to see my PCP. Thanks for the help.
Good news. Sure sounds like you're on the right track. Might also want to avoid "overdoing it" when you shoot again. Maybe slowly graduate your shooting back to your baseline.
Thanks for this info...I hurt my right arm about a month ago (trying to hold up a 2x6 while I put a screw into it). Gripping someone's hand to shake it is excrutiating, and it's not getting better....
brickboy240
08-20-14, 15:19
Funny thing is that I have played tennis for years and never got "tennis elbow" from tennis. I got it from doing rows with an EZ curl bar and starting with too much weight!
Getting rid of it took time and yes, the stretching exercises are a tremendous help. Avoid certain lifts or task that can irritate it, like hammer curls. Ice also helped...much more than heat.
It takes time for these things to heal. Mine went away...but it did take some time.
-brickboy240
Yep, a couple of months ago I was diagnosed with "golfers elbow" (and I don't play golf) in my left arm (weak side). It seemed to crop up overnight. I've started PT twice a week and it seems to help and was given a list of five weight (5 lb) exercises involving wrist curls/twists. It sucks getting older.
Good luck!
Straight Shooter
08-21-14, 17:00
Somewhere here, we had a thread on this very subject, and I too was, and still am suffering from it badly. My job adds to it daily.
I could not shoot for months. Been taking ibuprofen a lot, seems to help some. Gonna have to get another shot son tho.
I had that happen in my forearm after keeping up a pretty serious dry fire regimen with my sig 226. I just had to ice it down, and take it easy for a few days to a week and it went away.
brickboy240
08-26-14, 15:02
I really did not want to go in for a cortizone shot.
Stuck to ice and the stretching exercises and played it cool with that area and laid off the lifts that would irritate the elbow (hammer curls, tricep kickbacks, etc.).
It did heal on its own but man....it takes time. The stretches really helped....many times I thought they did better than the ice or Advil.
***UPDATE***
So I took 10 days off from any contact with the gun at all and the pain is now virtually gone. While taking time off I stretched several times a day and kind of took it easy in my daily tasks (hard to do as a Honda technician). I just got back from the range where I shot 200 rounds pain free. The braces I purchased helped big time, wearing them even seems to dampen the recoil significantly as well. Sounds crazy and I have no way of actually verifying it, but I can only tell you how it feels with and without the braces. I can still feel the tension in my left forearm build up while shooting and even after but it's not painful, just feels a little tight. I think with continued rest and stretching I'll be able to completely get over this injury. I decided on a less strenuous practice schedule of 200 rounds once a week, and dry fire wearing braces every other day for no more than 10 minutes until I'm back to 100%. Hopefully this reduced schedule will allow me to keep my skills up without destroying my arms in the process, and still give me time to heal. I definitely noticed a slight regression in skill after taking 10 days off, accuracy shooting high speed drills were below my usual standard.
Overall I would say that time off and stretching were the two biggest contributing factors in helping me get over this. Taking time off gave my arms time to heal, and stretching made the pain go away. I cannot stress enough how much stretching helped with the pain and recovery, I urge anyone who develops sore tendons or muscles to stretch them. Before I figured out how to stretch my forearm and elbow, the pain was constantly there, stretching relieved the pain almost immediately. Grip strength didn't return till I took time off, but stretching brought immediate relief. I'm sure now that there is a stretch for any sore muscle or tendon on the body, and I urge anyone who develops pain to seek out a proper stretch to help relieve it. I played plenty of sports in my younger days (lacrosse for 6 years,Tae Kwon Do for 12), and I've forgotten how important stretching is for any athletic endeavor. Shooting I now realize definitely requires some athleticism, and it's absolutely appropriate to stretch before and after a session. I think that's the biggest lesson I learned here. Hopefully this helps some people out, and thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.
Oops, double post. On a side note, I love love LOVE my PPQ! I've shot glocks almost exclusively for the past 9 years, randomly trying out other guns to try and find something better (HK P30, M&P's, Sigs), but in the end I always went back to my glocks. The PPQ I can say without a doubt is the superior weapon to my G19's. The trigger, ergo's, and mechanical accuracy leaves the glock in the dust and I never realized how much a really good trigger aids in speed and accuracy until I shot the PPQ. I'm about to purchase another PPQ so I can have a separate training gun, and carry gun, same thing I did with my G19's. The only downside is increased muzzle flip which is easily controlled with better technique. My timed drills are virtually the same with my PPQ, and I only have 950 rounds through it vs 40k+ through glocks. I assume I'll only get better with more trigger time behind the PPQ, I've never been more impressed with a handgun.
Excellent outcome, glad you're feeling better. Always nice to see a measured, thoughtful, and conservative approach pay off.
Concur with you on the PPQ. I think sometimes that the trigger is almost too good for my skill level. I have had a rare unintended double tap but I shoot the PPQ more accurately than any other semi auto I've operated. Need to train more. The ergos for me are great. The only thing that compares accuracy-wise in my hands is my old S&W 10-5 shooting SA.
My new HK VP9 only has ~200 rounds through it now so it is far too early to form an opinion, but this gun is starting to grow on me. I enjoy alternating the PPQ/VP9 during range time; very similar experience for me with the PPQ possessing an edge in trigger function. The VP9 ergos seem to be a bit better, but it is clearly shooter's preference.
as i understand it, pain on the inside is medial epicondylitis (golfers/climber's elbow) and on the outside is tennis elbow. also look up tendinosis vs. tendinitis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312643/
i currently am suffering from golfer's/climber's elbow from indoor rock climbing in both my elbows, so i'm taking it easy and following the advice in this article:
http://www.drjuliansaunders.com/resources/feature_articles/dodgy_elbows/
Excellent article, I also have climbers elbow from spending too much time on the rock. OP as others have said, warm up and stretch before running your drills and see if that alleviates the pain.
Im having the same issues after some research and speaking to some people I found out that my upper back was tight and I needed to relearn how to hold my posture while standing and siting. I will be doing some massage therapy to loosen up the muscle area and do stretching exercises that target that area. Hopefully that helps.
Hi, I wasn't sure if this was the right place to post this so if it isn't please move it to the appropriate place. Has anyone here developed Tendonitis, or shooters elbow due to shooting high round counts? I recently got back into shooting handgun at a regular weekly/biweekly shooting schedule and I'm developing some pretty bad tendonitis on my left inner forearm and right elbow (tennis elbow). It's compounded by the fact that I recently switched platforms to a Walther PPQ which requires me to have a very firm grip to counter the high recoil of the PPQ. I've never had this problem before shooting my Glocks, but the ultra firm grip my PPQ requires to keep the muzzle flat is literally tearing up my arms. I'm wondering what the solution to this problem is because the pain is to the point where I'm having trouble doing day to day tasks, and the pain is there almost all the time even when I'm not at the range. I just went out and purchased some braces for my elbow and forearm and in dry fire practice it definitely helps a lot. Unfortunately I can't wear a brace all day everyday so I need a long term solution. I shoot about 1200-1500 rounds of 9mm a month, and I dry fire practice everyday for 10-30 minutes using the same firm grip as live fire. Any suggestions? This really sucks.
Via my site, Dr Peter Chiang:
Tennis and Golf Elbow: Causes and Treatment
A Common Cause of Pain For Fitness Oriented People And Athletes Alike
Tennis elbow or Lateral epicondylitis is inflammation, soreness, or pain on the outside of the upper arm near the elbow1. Golfer’s elbow or Medial epicondylitis is pain and inflammation on the inner side of your elbow2.
How the injury occurs:
Both of these injuries are caused by repetitive use of extensor and/or flexor muscles of the forearm. Over time, inflammation, scar tissue, and small tears develop in the origin tendon of the muscle, which leads to irritation and pain when the muscle is used.
Lateral epicondylitis occurs in weightlifters usually due to wrist extension during pressing exercises such as barbell press, where the hands are stabilized, but the elbow has the tendency to move if technique is poor. Medial epicondylitis can occur with improper and/or excessive curling of the wrist during a bicep exercise. Both can also occur in occupation with consistent wrist rotation; like construction, painters, keyboard and mouse use, plumbers, and many more.
Cont:
http://www.brinkzone.com/injuries/tennis-and-golf-elbow-causes-and-treatment/
I've also had medial epicondylitis (golfer's elbow) twice in the past, getting it once from pistol shooting, and this last year from overdoing my workouts. The most recent bout was interesting, I used rest/ice/ibuprofen for a few weeks to let the worst of the pain and inflammation settle down. But whenever I went back to working out, a fairly significant but not severe level of pain would keep returning. I went to a sports medicine doctor in my area, and he advised that beyond the initial period of a few weeks' rest to get the swelling down, you will often need to start carefully working the muscles and tendons in your wrists and forearms again in order to "remodel" the tendon that is causing your pain. Just pure rest alone won't do it in some cases, it'll keep coming back to some degree until you stretch and strengthen the muscles and tendons in the affected area. What surprised me is, he said even moderate pain as you begin working out is ok; but be careful. If it starts to get worse or severe, he advised to back off again don't just try to push through it if it's getting really painful. His point was that with this injury, some pain is normal but you'll often have to work the area despite some pain in order to recover. A lot of injuries aren't like that, often you have to do total rest to recover.
The doc suggested 3 things for me:
1. A 5-day oral course of prednisone (helps address the sharp tendon pain).
2. Moderate wrist and forearm stretches and exercises 3x a week.
3. Moderate workout exercises of the type that originally caused my injury from overdoing it.
I'm making progress and about 10 months after this latest round of golfer's elbow started, I'm back into my regular workout routine and the pain in the tendons is starting to subside. Seems like the doc put me on the right track.
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