View Full Version : BOTACHTACTICAL.COM
Gutshot John
06-13-08, 17:12
Well after ordering more than a month ago I finally got shipping notice...minus the vest I wanted...but they did send me the pouches...which are now meaningless. Since ordering I've called them about a dozen times as well as sent a dozen emails inquiring as to status and EXPLICITLY stating that if anything was backordered/unavailable I needed to know. NO ONE ever got back to me...or even offered an alternative.
I've had trouble with them for a while now, and this is the third CONSECUTIVE order they've messed up or deliberately fudged. You may have ordered $13 Glock mags that never showed. Their prices are competitive, but all in all their service is worthless.
Essentially their practices are bait-and-switch in appearance if not in practice...don't waste your time...it's not worth the hassle.
Jay Cunningham
06-13-08, 17:49
I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way about BoTach but they have a pretty bad rep. For every person that has a "great experience" with them it seems 10 don't.
PRGGodfather
06-13-08, 18:22
This is true. While Botach has some fantastic prices, their customer service is inconsistent at best. I had purchased thousands of dollars worth of equipment from them over the years.
And then after weeks of waiting for the backorder, they finally said they were not getting the items.
But they didn't want to refund me right away, either. Botach charges you when the order is placed, instead of when it ships -- which is fine, if they actually get the product in from backorder.
I filed two Better Business Bureau complaints against them for failing to refund my money after three requests, including two personal phone calls.
Their BBB rating was already a D, and know they have an F. They eventually refunded the money.
Caveat emptor
Gutshot John
06-13-08, 18:37
BBB is great for showing reputable companies but do little to solve problems.
I think I'll file a complaint with the California Attorney General's Office.
The secret that I've found with Botach is that if the item is in stock then you are golden. If it is not in stock, you are basically hosed until they get it in stock. Eventually they will contact you but it might be six months later. There is no indication on the website of what is in stock and what is not.
Friends don't let friends go botach?
Just say no?
Walk, do not run to the nearest exit?
You would be happier with herpes?
Bo don't know jack?
Jesus loves Botach, but wouldn't shop there if the stuff was free?
Caveat emptor?
Stupid is as stupid does, sir?
I had a not so painful experience by calling ahead and verfying the items I was after were in stock.
Navigating their website blows.
Gutshot John
06-13-08, 21:51
I had a not so painful experience by calling ahead and verfying the items I was after were in stock.
Navigating their website blows.
I'm sure that helps.
I literally called dozens of times and left at least 10 messages.
Not a word in reply.
I wish I had known about the bad rep they had before I ordered from them.
About 3 months ago I ordered some mags for my new Glock 21SF. I specifically asked them to make sure they are the new style mags since my pistol has the ambi mag catch and the older mags will not work. They assured me that they had the new style mags, and that's what I would get.
Well, when the package arrived, I opened it to find that not only were the mags not the new style for the ambi mag catch, but they weren't even Glock 21 mags! I couldn't believe they sent me Glock 23 mags! I verified on the invoice that I did indeed order Glock 21, not 23 mags.
It took several tries before I was able to contact anyone at Botach, and when I did, the attitude was like "So, what's the difference?" I tried my best to remain calm, and explain to them the difference. Finally, they agreed to send me the correct mags along with a return shipping label so I could return the G23 mags.
When I got the new package I was very relieved to find that they sent the correct mags this time. I was half expecting some more G23 mags!
So, even though it worked out OK, it was a hassle that I'd rather not deal with, and I won't be doing business with them again, no matter how good thier prices seem.
Well, I just took a chance, and was rewarded with a fantastic experience. I ordered on Thursday, received on Saturday. My order was for some GG&G items, batteries, and Cold Steel products. I got an "order has shipped" email with UPS tracking from them within minutes of placing my order. Everything was perfect!:) :cool:
I hate to beat what I thought was a dead horse, but I would rather drive dull wooden toothpicks under my toe nails than ever order from botox again...
Gutshot John
06-20-08, 20:29
Well, I just took a chance, and was rewarded with a fantastic experience. I ordered on Thursday, received on Saturday. My order was for some GG&G items, batteries, and Cold Steel products. I got an "order has shipped" email with UPS tracking from them within minutes of placing my order. Everything was perfect!:) :cool:
I double-dog dare you to order from them again. :D
Funny that I never had any problems with them in the past and only ordered from them because of the low prices. . . No troubles that is. . .till now.
Personally, I shop elsewhere.
I double-dog dare you to order from them again. :D
Well, I just saw they have Comp M4S's for $580! Oh the temptation. :o I have a buddy that is going to place an order with them in the near future for a BUIS and some stuff to mount his surefire. I'll report back with the results... if and when he places his order.
One other thing. I just realized that I ordered a six pack of DURACELL CR123's and actually received ENERGIZER CR123's! THOSE F'ERS! :eek:
So, I'd have to agree with the bait and switch comment made by Gutshot John in his initial post. No effort was made to contact me, to ask if a "substitution" was OK. I am fine with Energizer batteries, but... should they assume that?:confused:
Gutshot John
06-25-08, 15:40
Well, I just saw they have Comp M4S's for $580!
Well if you add $10 for shipping...than another $120 for a Larue Mount plus shipping
You spend $20 more than you would from Grant or Larue directly.
For the piece of mind...G&R or Larue is a much better deal.
I used to be really big on them especially because I only lived an hour away and could arrange for pickup. But, over that last couple of years their customer service has gone to shit and it's not worth the wait and headache. Too bad.
I ordered two pair of Woolrich Tactical Elite pants from them. One pair was shipped and it was the wrong size. I had to pay to return the incorrect item. I am still waiting for the refund on my credit card. I think I am into my third month regarding this issue.
I have ordered a fair amount of stuff from them over the years, but will never do business with them again.
Well, I just saw they have Comp M4S's for $580!
If they are actually listing them for that then they are breaking their agreements with Aimpoint. Do you want to do business with a dishonest business?
Iraq Ninja
06-27-08, 05:05
This may be slightly off topic, but there is a family link between Botach and company called AEY. AEY is under investigation for selling crappy ammo to the US. Botach is this guy's uncle...
Firing blanks in Afghanistan (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JF27Ak01.html)
The saga of United States military contractor AEY and its supply of substandard ammunition to Afghanistan keeps getting curiouser and curiouser, as Alice in Wonderland phrased it, after descending the rabbit hole. Or put another way, it is the news story that keeps on giving.
The contract required AEY to certify that it was providing "serviceable and safe ammunition". The army contract also banned supplying ammunition acquired "directly or indirectly from a communist Chinese military company".
But according to the Times the company provided ammunition that is more than 40 years old and in decomposing packaging. Much of the ammunition came from old communist bloc aging stockpiles, including those that the US State Department and North Atlantic Treaty Organization had determined to be unreliable and obsolete, and had spent millions of dollars to have destroyed.
The ammunition had not been tested for reliability under well-established military standards. The obsolete and defective cartridges were shipped in poorly packed cardboard boxes that split open on arrival in war zones. Other ammunition was in crates that suffered from extensive termite damage and "were no longer safe for transportation".
.....His family owns two military and police supply companies, both of which receive government contracts. Worldwide Tactical, which sells riot gear, chest protectors and flight suits, operates at the same Miami address as AEY and is owned by Michael Diveroli, Efraim's father.
There is also Botach Tactical, a military and police supply company in South Central Los Angeles that has received more than $13 million in contracts and is owned by Efraim's uncle, Bar-Kochba Botach.
Incidentally, Diveroli started AEY after both he and his father learned the business from Bar-Kochba Botach.
And Efraim's grandfather, Yoav Botach, is one of Los Angeles' wealthiest property owners. According to the Los Angeles Daily News, he owns 144 commercial or other properties in the city and has an ownership stake in Botach Tactical.
Gutshot John
06-27-08, 09:29
Hmmmm...curiouser and curiouser.
...I've had trouble with them for a while now, and this is the third CONSECUTIVE order they've messed up or deliberately fudged...
3rd consecutive? Bit of a masochist are you?
Far in the past I ordered from them once and had absolutely no problems with anything. However, when on nearly every forum involving gear people have complained about how horrible they are...?
This is something loosely referred to as a clue.
Good luck getting any kind of resolution out them.
Gutshot John
06-27-08, 14:01
3rd consecutive? Bit of a masochist are you?
Far in the past I ordered from them once and had absolutely no problems with anything. However, when on nearly every forum involving gear people have complained about how horrible they are...?
This is something loosely referred to as a clue.
Good luck getting any kind of resolution out them.
I had placed three orders over the course of two weeks. When the problems became glaring I tried to call and confirm/cancel the others...to no avail.
Army Chief
06-27-08, 15:35
Personally, I've never had a problem, though I don't really use Botach as a primary supplier for hard-use deployment kit; that said, I've often wondered: what kind of name is "Bar-Kochba Botach," anyway? I'm not so insular as to take issue with whatever the answer might be, but every time I see that name on the Customs slip, I have to just scratch my head a bit.
Chief
Personally, I've never had a problem, though I don't really use Botach as a primary supplier for hard-use deployment kit; that said, I've often wondered: what kind of name is "Bar-Kochba Botach," anyway? I'm not so insular as to take issue with whatever the answer might be, but every time I see that name on the Customs slip, I have to just scratch my head a bit.
Chief
Don't know if ya'll read this before, but found an interesting article here (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/world/asia/27ammo.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). You may wish to scroll down to the subheading An Ambitious Company.
Enjoy!
DavidFourteen
06-28-08, 21:22
No effort was made to contact me, to ask if a "substitution" was OK. Count yourself lucky. The ONE time I ordered from them, I spent 3 months waiting and made at least 6 phone calls to Botach, never once speaking to anyone with adequate English language skills.
And I finally ended up cancelling the order. No amount of discount is worth the BS they will put you through.
Order from one of the site sponsors here, and you can do so with confidence in what you order & that it will arrive in a timely manner. Ordering from Botach is like kicking yourself in the nuts.
Well, I got an email from said company this morning asking for my credit card number again and saying that my order that I place back in May 1 is finally ready to be shipped. :confused:
Good thing I'm not going to respond. . .or do any business with them anymore. :rolleyes: :p
They are Israeli. What's really funny is the location and "storefront". It is down in the hood and it's a rough area. I had no idea until I actually got there. The storefront is actually says pawnshop on it and it has large bars all over the windows. You can only get access with a MIL/ GOV or LE ID card. The guy that greeted me at the door was packing as well as a few others. Their walk in gun vault is unreal and I never realized that there were so many Class III and assault style weapons in the state.
Personally, I've never had a problem, though I don't really use Botach as a primary supplier for hard-use deployment kit; that said, I've often wondered: what kind of name is "Bar-Kochba Botach," anyway? I'm not so insular as to take issue with whatever the answer might be, but every time I see that name on the Customs slip, I have to just scratch my head a bit.
Chief
Al U. 5811
07-05-08, 13:44
I've ordered from them over a dozen times and always got exactly what I ordered and on time, footware and gear, no gun stuff. The one time that an item was no longer in stock they contacted me by phone and email to inform me of status. They have always been good. I guess I will keep ordering from them in the future. As far as the "bad" company's go, Botach and DBT, I've never had an order go bad. In fact the only time I had anything go sour was a couple of orders from Lightfighter(pre-ATS). I'm still reluctant to do business with them.
Maybe I'm just lucky?????? Kinda doubt it.
Maybe I'm just lucky?????? Kinda doubt it.
Google says otherwise.
I ordered some 5.11 boots a few years ago. A month or so before the SHOT Show, where I had wanted to wear them. 3-4 months later, though they had charged my card, I had not gotten the boots. They were not replying to my inquiries at all. Finally I complained through their local BBB and the boots showed up.
That is not my only problem -- though I did get most of the stuff, I had ordered some stuff during their Blackwater Gear closeout 2 months ago and it took a month for them to ship, they never replied to my inquiries, and some of the stuff did not ship but they never contacted me about it.
10 years ago I ordered $500 worth of stuff (utility tool, flashlights, etc) and they shipped me like $50 worth of stuff in a small box that was not even big enough to hold all the stuff I ordered. But they did charge me the full $500. After much trying, I finally got someone on the phone and asked about the stuff. They said they had shipped it and gave me the tracking number of the box that I had received already, that was really small and too small for all the stuff I had ordered. They did nothing about it and I had to complain to AMEX about it. They gave me the money back.
I recently ordered some batteries. They shipped a different brand -- one that I would not have paid the per battery cost for. No explanation. No contact. No asking permission to exchange brands.
I avoid them but occasionally they have a closeout or something that is "too good to ignore" and I try again. Maybe I am just a masochist.
They even called me like 6-8 months ago asking for me to give them another chance (after I had complained to Yahoo, who hosts their store, about them). They claimed to have changed. Not really. I have not seen it.
Chad
I purchased 2 M95 Gas masks w CA21 filters from them back in Nov 2001. Their
price was half what everyone else was asking. The order went through smoothly, got items in a timely manner with no problems. Since then I've read
loads of complaints on various sites. I'll consider myself fortunate but won't be ordering from them again. Their website is a pain to navigate.
Al U. 5811
07-11-08, 14:40
Dude you don't have any idea how "luck" and I get along. :rolleyes:
I would be the last guy to stand next to in a lightning storm.......or mortar attack.
Once in awhile there's a deal good enough for a throw of the dice with Botach. I ordered several items on the Woolrich closeout July 2. No comms for several days. Call to BT was met with a "someone will contact you" response. An email notification of partial shipment was received thereafter. Partial order (in-stock items) arrived today 7/14, all pants in various styles and quantities. The balance of the order wasn't in stock. They charged my card correctly, on shipment.
Not my best Botach experience, not the worst. At $19.95/ea for the pants, the extra bother paid off. Credit where credit is due.
Had good experiences with them in the past, quick shipping, but I don't like their practice of charging your card immediately, especially when the in stock status of their items is questionable. However, my past few times dealing with them have been terrible, with the exception of a Pelican case I ordered from them a month or so ago. Items just haven't shipped, and I've just emailed them and cancelled. No reply, but the charge disappeared. Did that about a month ago for some Glock mags, Lancer mags, and batteries. Nothing for about a week, so I emailed and cancelled. No reply, but the charge disappeared. Get an email today, saying my items have shipped, and my card is charged again. No big deal, I can use the stuff, but seriously, WTF?
there's positives to charging the card immediately- like not being over your limit in three months when they ship. :)
the1911fan
03-29-09, 23:09
Once I started using the police dept. (work) address as the shipping address for my orders they have been 100% timely and accurate..maybe it is coincidence but I was advised to no longer use my home address after having a few problems similar to what I have read here and it has worked great.
Had good experiences with them in the past, quick shipping, but I don't like their practice of charging your card immediately, especially when the in stock status of their items is questionable. However, my past few times dealing with them have been terrible, with the exception of a Pelican case I ordered from them a month or so ago. Items just haven't shipped, and I've just emailed them and cancelled. No reply, but the charge disappeared. Did that about a month ago for so Glock mags, Lancer mags, and batteries. Nothing for about a week, so I emailed and cancelled. No reply, but the charge disappeared. Get an email today, saying my items have shipped, and my card is charged again. No big deal, I can use the stuff, but seriously, WTF?
They are not actually charging your card when you first place the order. They are doing what is called a "pre-auth". They do a "pre-authorization" for the total amount of the order but they do not close it out until they ship. Ie, they do not get your money. This is the same thing that happens to you when go to one of those "swipe the card pay at the pump" gas stations. They do a "pre-authorization" against your card when you first swipe it and before you pump -- but since they don't know how much you are going to pump they will pre-auth $50 or $75 (or more depending on gas prices and average sale) but when you are done pumping they will actually close out the pre-auth to finalize the charge but at the actual sale amount. It sometimes can take a few days for the "pre-auth" to go away once they finalize the charge so you will log in to your banks online system and check and it shows you down $50 or $75 even though you pumped only $20 in gas, and then mysteriously a few days later your available credit jumps up $30 or so bucks as you get that pre-auth back.
Except in BOTACH (and others who pre-auth you) case, the pre-auth only will last for a week usually (each bank may have slightly different policies) and so if BOTACH does not ship to you within the week, you magically get that money back on your spending limit. They just never finalized the charge and it expired.
Why do they do this? They want to make sure you can pay for your purchase before they go to the hassle of packing it up I guess. But since half the crap BOTACH sells they don't have in stock the pre-auth ends up being a PITA for you since you think your stuff is coming. It doesn't, you get pissed thinking they have charged your card (which they kind of have but they don't get the money) and then a month later they actually ship and do an actual charge on your card.
I almost never do a pre-auth unless I get someone who places a special custom order I have to get in and I want to make sure the money is allocated to me before I order it in as it is expensive to return special order stuff I don't normally ship. BOTACH seems to do it automatically on every order.
there's positives to charging the card immediately- like not being over your limit in three months when they ship. :)
Actually the pre-authorization they do (they don't do a full charge it seems -- the experience you are replying to mirrors my own with them) expires in about 7 days, plus or minus...
Well, I've had mostly good experiences with them in the past, but the whole Obama panic has really thrown things off with them I guess. I used to order stuff, select UPS ground for shipping, and have it the next day almost every time. Ever since the whole debacle with the Pmag backorders everything has pretty much been f'ed up with them. I ordered that Pelican case, and got that next day, but nothing else has been right. I've pretty much given up on them, good prices or not.
Received the package today, everything was there, in good condition, no problems. Came in a soft sided bubble wrap package which was so dirty on the outside it looked like it laid under a shelf in a workshop for a month.
Maybe that's why it took so long. :p
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