View Full Version : The Faces of the M9 - Ernest Langdon, USMC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIwW0uMCGJI
Cool video...hopefully Beretta will start listening to him and bring back an updated Elite 92FS and Storm.
Ernest Langdon is an excellent instructor and an awesome shooter. He won several IDPA National Championship with his Beretta Elite as well as a Sig 220 and a S&W 1911. He won championships while working and shooting for three different gun makers. I brought him to our range a few years ago and learned a lot about shooting accurately and quickly. He can run a double action semi auto better than most people. He is coming back to our range for a class in September.
Stay tuned for more information.
Good video. I would have enjoyed it more without the background music.
Failure2Stop
08-18-14, 12:09
He can run a double action semi auto better than most people.
I might phrase it more along the lines of, "He can run a double action semi auto better than anyone."
Or maybe, "He can run a double action semi auto better than most people can do anything."
:jester:
Bring back the damned Elite models FFS...
I might phrase it more along the lines of, "He can run a double action semi auto better than anyone."
Or maybe, "He can run a double action semi auto better than most people can do anything."
:jester:
I don't want to step on several other people's toes. There are a handful of great Beretta shooters.
Bring back the damned Elite models FFS...
Grabbed this picture from Gunbroker:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elite_III.jpg
A factory demo gun, sold on GB, asking price was $700.
I should have been more specific. Id prefer the Elite II's as i dig the forward cocking serrations.
My Son and I had the pleasure to meet Mr. Langdon at the IDPA Nationals at Mid-South back in 2002.
I paid him the remaining balance for the custom work he did on my Elite II. It really made my (at the time) 9 year old sons day. It was nice to see my Son smile like that considering he had lost his mother to cancer months earlier.
He was a true Gentleman.
Here is my Elite II and another pic showing the difference in slide thickness between that and a 92a1.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/lushl0sn/Beretta92_elite.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/lushl0sn/7E06F1A9-44F1-4AB4-961F-FBC801EEDEDA-2008-0000002A6994D208_zps8ec99c8a.jpg
Grabbed this picture from Gunbroker:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elite_III.jpg
A factory demo gun, sold on GB, asking price was $700.
Geez I'd buy that in a NY minute...C'mon Beretta get with it..
The Dumb Gun Collector
08-18-14, 23:51
Got a class with this guy coming up next month. I hope his Beretta fever doesn't rub off on me! I don't need any other guns.
I like my 92. It was the first handgun I ever bought. ~ 16k through it. Runs great. DA/SA isn't nearly as bad as the internet would have you believe.
brushy bill
08-19-14, 05:26
Similar thread different forum mentioned his 30k to 50k round annual firing regime. Be interesting to know how an M9 holds up to that for him.
Straight Shooter
08-19-14, 05:57
Ive said here MANY times, and elsewhere...the M9 is a great pistol. MOST people who criticize it are only repeating internet BULLSHIT they've read somewhere.
Ive said here MANY times, and elsewhere...the M9 is a great pistol. MOST people who criticize it are only repeating internet BULLSHIT they've read somewhere.
In my opinion, the slide mounted safety makes it a bad choice.
In my opinion, the slide mounted safety makes it a bad choice.
I agree but it's a easy fix with the "G" models.
The Model 92 may not be my first choice because of the size and weight of the pistol but it's still a very good gun that is as reliable ( in my experience ) as anything out there and that never goes out of style.
Grabbed this picture from Gunbroker:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elite_III.jpg
A factory demo gun, sold on GB, asking price was $700.
I want this!
Interesting things to come. If you get a chance to take a class with EL then you should. If you shoot a Beretta there is really nobody you can learn more from. He also just made GM for USPSA Production and has lots to offer.
And masakari, that's why he shoots a model 92 "G" with decocker only no safety. Decock, reholster, draw, point, shoot (from double action).
gtmtnbiker98
08-19-14, 13:03
With all this Beretta hype and Wilson Combat customizing the platform, perhaps the Elite's will once again return. At least we can hope.
brushy bill
08-19-14, 22:11
Can anyone with first hand successful experience advise how hard it is to replace polymer trigger with steel parts kit or Wilson version and tools required? Carried one plenty but did not go to this level BB of disassembly. PM if it derails thread.
Beretta's management has the same mindset as Sigs, disregard the consumers
wants/wishes and keep shoveling out the models that produce more profit , while
losing market share.
dookie1481
08-20-14, 01:50
Ive said here MANY times, and elsewhere...the M9 is a great pistol. MOST people who criticize it are only repeating internet BULLSHIT they've read somewhere.
Depends on what you expect from it. I have sent back at least 5 with cracked slides (same spot, of course).
But unlike Sig, the quality of their flagship model has not been called into question in recent years.
Straight Shooter
08-20-14, 03:11
Depends on what you expect from it. I have sent back at least 5 with cracked slides (same spot, of course).
Ok...Ill bite. How/Under what conditions did you have to "send 5 back with cracked slides {same spot, of course}. OF COURSE.
I sell firearms for a living,the Beretta 92 family are our second best selling firearm(after the Glock 19 Gen 4),we don't have any problems with them,Sig on the other hand.I agree with the idea that Beretta could do a much better job if they reintroduced some of their older models.Beretta is a very viable alternative for those that don't want a stryker fired,polymer pistol.The search for a new service pistol will more than likely may only serve to make the platform less popular.Thankfully the work of Mr.Langdon and Mr.Wilson may counter this.
Eurodriver
08-20-14, 05:21
I spent years with the M9 and was very cool with our units armorers and I can't ever remember having to send an M9 to third.
Granted, military M9s get shot a bit less than civilian ones but They are certainly treated worse. I was always very impressed with its durability. Are the civilian models made from different materials or forged differently?
I'm glad Mr. Langdon is doing something nice with the beretta line, but I just never fell in love with the gun. To me it will always be a nostalgic military pistol and nothin more. Something about its trigger and weight put me off to it.
Fordtough25
08-20-14, 05:32
Granted I don't put 50K rounds through anything in a years time but my newer manufacture Sig's and Beretta's have ran great. I put a couple thousand through my pistols each year at least so maybe moderate use. I am lacking an M9 right now but will have another maybe later this year.
USMC_Anglico
08-20-14, 05:39
In my opinion, the slide mounted safety makes it a bad choice.
and the massive grip size. It's time for the M9 to go out to pasture based on modern pistol design and that is from my direct experience. Have no clue about any other Beretta pistols. Thankfully G19's can be had in some corners of the military.
A friend from the St. Louis area had a modified DAO Beretta 92 that he used for PPC competition, so I bought a 92FS for myself. I owned the 92FS for several years, it was reliable and had decent accuracy. It would digest reloads that my other pistols would not.
The grip circumference was a bit too large for my hand size, which required me to consciously adjust my grip when I shot it/competed with it so I sold it. If the grip circumference on a new 92FS was smaller and the front sight installed in a dovetail, I would pick up another one.
The grip circumference was a bit too large for my hand size, which required me to consciously adjust my grip when I shot it/competed with it so I sold it. If the grip circumference on a new 92FS was smaller and the front sight installed in a dovetail, I would pick up another one.
I have small hands. I've shot Berettas for 5 - 6 years, both the standard 92FS/M9/F grip frame and the Vertec model. Yes the standard 92 frames are a little big and shooters with small hands have to adjust. If you can find the Vertec, they are quite rare now, get it. The grip frame is much more comfortable and smaller. You will find this is what you're looking for. Beretta and their genius did not promote the sale of the Vertec enough and thus the general public gun buyers were not that informed on this option.
The straight backstrap, 1911-like grip angle and the shorter trigger reach really help shooters with small hands.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Raven_001.jpg
With all this Beretta hype and Wilson Combat customizing the platform, perhaps the Elite's will once again return. At least we can hope.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
C4
Can anyone with first hand successful experience advise how hard it is to replace polymer trigger with steel parts kit or Wilson version and tools required? Carried one plenty but did not go to this level BB of disassembly. PM if it derails thread.
Sir,
I have made that conversion with my 92G. I did it to install the Wolff trigger spring return unit. It is a relatively easy exchange. If you are moderately handy around a pistol you will find it easy. I found a you tube video. Another resource is the Beretta Forum. Beretta sells a steel parts kit and it is a good bargain IMO. Check with Beretta USA.
19852
and the massive grip size. It's time for the M9 to go out to pasture based on modern pistol design and that is from my direct experience. Have no clue about any other Beretta pistols. Thankfully G19's can be had in some corners of the military.
I actually forced myself to shoot a Beretta Storm F and was surprisingly pleased with the gun. Much more ergonomic in the hand and I feel it is has a bit of untapped potential. A Beretta Storm G with a longer slide/barrel would be appealing to me.
I actually forced myself to shoot a Beretta Storm F and was surprisingly pleased with the gun. Much more ergonomic in the hand and I feel it is has a bit of untapped potential. A Beretta Storm G with a longer slide/barrel would be appealing to me.
The Storm pistols are nothing like the 92 series.
The grip circumference was a bit too large for my hand size, which required me to consciously adjust my grip when I shot it/competed with it so I sold it.
Besides getting a Vertec, three things can be done to alleviate this:
- fitting Vertec grip panels,
- installing a short reach trigger,
- both of the above.
I have large hands with long fingers, so trigger reach, and grip size is never an issue. I avoided the 92FS for years due to the position, and operation of the safety. I recently bought one, installed a "D" spring, and Elite II hammer, and it really helped the trigger pull, especially in DA. I like the 92 about as much as my CZ-75's which is saying a lot. They are fine pistols, and with a few minor, but easy, do it yourself mods can be really nice shooters.
plouffedaddy
08-20-14, 12:17
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
C4
Oh really? :D
Oh really? :D
Yes, stay tuned.
QuickStrike
08-20-14, 12:35
^ This strengtens my resolve to not buy any new guns, maybe sell a couple.
Must wait for re-introduced 92's....
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
C4
92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD
In case you were wondering which model I want to see brought back :D
I have always wanted a Beretta 92 and after reading your write up on the 92G-SD it has become the model I want the most. If I can buy one made in Tennessee then that would just be the bee's knees.
plouffedaddy
08-20-14, 14:33
92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD
In case you were wondering which model I want to see brought back :D
I have always wanted a Beretta 92 and after reading your write up on the 92G-SD it has become the model I want the most. If I can buy one made in Tennessee then that would just be the bee's knees.
Put me down for a 92A1 with a G slide.
Put me down for a 92A1 with a G slide.
Me too, plouffedaddy.
brushy bill
08-20-14, 15:31
Yes, stay tuned.
Watching with interest. If I knew Brigadier slide was coming back I'd be picking up M9 mags now.
92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD 92G-SD
In case you were wondering which model I want to see brought back :D
I have always wanted a Beretta 92 and after reading your write up on the 92G-SD it has become the model I want the most. If I can buy one made in Tennessee then that would just be the bee's knees.
I had one of those too back around 2004ish. Paid $850 for it. Sold it about 4 or 5 years later for about the same price.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/RichardTouch/G-SD.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RichardTouch/media/G-SD.jpg.html)
dookie1481
08-20-14, 19:04
Ok...Ill bite. How/Under what conditions did you have to "send 5 back with cracked slides {same spot, of course}. OF COURSE.
Rental range. They have all cracked at the thinnest part of the slide.
I got an itch for one a while back and stole a like new M9 off Gunbroker in the low 4's. It shoots great. Grip is fine with me. That decoker location is a PITA. But if I trained with it, I'm sure I could be proficient.
Trigger is smooth, nice shooter.
wildcard600
08-20-14, 21:01
I really wished I hadn't seen this thread. Now I need to start saving for another beretta. :(
Grip is fine with me.
You must have big hands PB! Mine are average and the grip feels too big, much like the Sig P226, especially with the first trigger pull being a long double action.
If Beretta ever comes out with a 92 with a railed frame (I prefer the M9A1 frame), DECOCK ONLY slide, and a removable front sight, I'll buy three of them immediately.
If Beretta ever comes out with a 92 with a railed frame (I prefer the M9A1 frame), DECOCK ONLY slide, and a removable front sight, I'll buy three of them immediately.
Better save up some money. :)
The world is going nuts. AR pistol Love... Beretta Love.... WTF?
DreadPirateMoyer
08-21-14, 10:20
Better save up some money. :)
AAHHHH WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?! Do you know some inside knowledge?! Aaahhhhh don't do this to me!
I adore my 92A1's. A 92A1-G would blow my freaking mind.
Exiledviking
08-21-14, 11:03
The world is going nuts. AR pistol Love... Beretta Love.... WTF?
Good to see you back, Mark. As usual I get laugh or 2 out of your posts. The Beretta is a fine pistol (especially since I have 2 of them [emoji33]). Why don't you like the Beretta?
I like shooting the beretta. Pappabear just bought one. I owned one for a while. Slide mounted safety was a problem for me, but other than that, I liked shooting it.
I like shooting the beretta. Pappabear just bought one. I owned one for a while. Slide mounted safety was a problem for me, but other than that, I liked shooting it.
Yes, and I am buying two more Berretta's because of that video. No more rifle shooting on 2014!
Sam, don't let him pull you in, he is BS'ing 90% of the time when he brings in PB. Its all good.
Im looking to get 3 holsters for them too. Strong side, weak side and Nam special !
AAHHHH WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?! Do you know some inside knowledge?! Aaahhhhh don't do this to me!
I adore my 92A1's. A 92A1-G would blow my freaking mind.
Wilson Combat is diligently working on bringing a desirable B92 configuration to the market. It appears to be a loosely guarded secret since a number of people on this thread seem to be aware. However, since it is a WC's project, it would be a bad form for "insiders" to disclose details until WC does so themselves. I believe WC is withholding the word until they are 100% sure this is going to happen, and that's a smart thing to do.
Im looking to get 3 holsters for them too. Strong side, weak side and Nam special !
Highly recommend the Wilson Combat Tactical Assault holsters. They will fit both the standard non rail 92 and the 92 with rail, such as the Vertec/SD/A1.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/RichardTouch/LTT-Holster.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/RichardTouch/media/LTT-Holster.jpg.html)
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Tactical-Assault-Holster-Beretta-92_96-Right-Hand-15-Belt-Black-Kydex/productinfo/TA4BKR15/
That's a nice looking holster.
Can anyone with first hand successful experience advise how hard it is to replace polymer trigger with steel parts kit or Wilson version and tools required? Carried one plenty but did not go to this level BB of disassembly. PM if it derails thread.
Simple to do, remove the grips, remove the trigger bar spring, remove the trigger bar, remove the slide stop (its spring is what needs to removed to allow removal of the trigger pin), remove the trigger pin and watch the mouse trap trigger return spring because it tends to fly off and than remove the trigger. Resemble in reverse order (I recommend the Wilson, actually Wolfe, trigger return snail drum spring), the only thing you have to watch is put the slide stop spring leg back into the hole when putting it back together.)
If you are not replacing the trigger replacement spring with the snail drum spring you will need a needle nose pliers to put the trigger return spring back in.
Can anyone with first hand successful experience advise how hard it is to replace polymer trigger with steel parts kit or Wilson version and tools required? Carried one plenty but did not go to this level BB of disassembly. PM if it derails thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5zncTNsXUM
Alpha Sierra
08-21-14, 16:31
As I dig deeper into the CZ 75 hole, I see less and less reason to consider any other pistol. Let alone one with such severely flawed ergos as the Beretta 92 series.
Outlander Systems
08-21-14, 17:32
I've got nothin' but love for the ole Mike Nine.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=28101&d=1408660274
brushy bill
08-21-14, 17:44
Thanks Ron & Sam.
I bought a 92A1 and sent it to Wilson for a trigger job and the G conversion. I got the pistol for a song because some guy traded it in on a Glock 42.
Wilson Combat is diligently working on bringing a desirable B92 configuration to the market. It appears to be a loosely guarded secret since a number of people on this thread seem to be aware. However, since it is a WC's project, it would be a bad form for "insiders" to disclose details until WC does so themselves. I believe WC is withholding the word until they are 100% sure this is going to happen, and that's a smart thing to do.
Is this B92 a full custom build from scratch? Something like what they do with 1911s?
I've been following all the recent Wilson Beretta threads, but this is the first I see of any B92.
Exiledviking
08-22-14, 00:32
If Beretta ever comes out with a 92 with a railed frame (I prefer the M9A1 frame), DECOCK ONLY slide, and a removable front sight, I'll buy three of them immediately.
The M9A1 frame is the same as the 92G-SD, right? The 92G-SD also had a removable front sight? So, hopefully it is the 92G-SD that is being revived with WC help.
Does the Brigadier slide really make that much of a difference and if so, in what ways?
I have a Brigadier. Not to sound like captain obvious, but felt recoil is softer due to the thicker slide. The gun itself does feel slightly heavier, but the 92 series aren't exactly light weight to begin with. So I think anyone concerned with weight in the first place would be looking at other options to begin with.
As for the heavier feel of the gun, I don't have a standard slide 92 to compare to. I'll try to take weight of the brigadier, but I don't have a digital scale so the weight will be more of an estimate
Rail or no rail. I would buy a 92G compact to go with my full size.
As I dig deeper into the CZ 75 hole, I see less and less reason to consider any other pistol. Let alone one with such severely flawed ergos as the Beretta 92 series.
I have several CZ-75 based pistols, but I still like the Beretta. However, it is easy to get spoiled by CZ, and they are keepers for sure.
Is this B92 a full custom build from scratch?
I don't believe that Wilson Combat has tooling needed to produce Beretta guns from the scratch.
Actually Brig guns theoretically have a higher felt recoil because reciprocating mass is heavier. Ernest Langdon, to whom this thread was devoted originally, uses slimmer Vertec G slides for that reason. I have both setups and I cannot perceive a significant difference, but there is a reason why slide lightening and guns with lighter slides (like CZs and Tanfos) are so popular in performance shooting.
Between Ernest and Mel, what's not to like about the 92. I used one for IDPA from 1998 to 2005, put 45K through the gun, only had 3 FTF in that time.
The M9A1 frame is the same as the 92G-SD, right? The 92G-SD also had a removable front sight? So, hopefully it is the 92G-SD that is being revived with WC help.
Does the Brigadier slide really make that much of a difference and if so, in what ways?
Yes, what I'm asking for is more or less the 92G-SD minus the Brig slide which I can take or leave. I mainly care about a dovetail front sight as I refuse to use three dot sights.
I like what WC is doing with the 92 series. I'd like it a lot more if Beretta would just build a similar gun again and stick a $600-$649 price on it like they did with 92A1 so I don't have to ship my brand new gun(s) off to a gunsmith at quite a premium to get such a simple addition done. I heard good things about the low profile safety levers, so I'd probably see how I liked those first before dropping the $150 on the conversion.
http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=FwRCeCBFtYg
Found this and thought I should share. Too funny :lol:
ETA: Try it now Sam.
Can't seem to locate any video associated with your link.
I edited my post and changed it to a hyper link. I don't why it didn't work the first time. I copied the link and pasted it into the little film strip icon. I'm posting this from a kindle through their Silk browser if that makes a difference.
brushy bill
08-22-14, 22:31
I don't want anyone to violate an NDA or promise, but will the slides on the soon to be released models include the Brigadier?
DAVID RICHARDS
08-23-14, 01:40
Mr. Langdon worked his magic on a 96G Elite for me including a short trigger. Night and day difference in the gun. A fine gentleman. It took awhile to get back to me. He actually called me from the Middle East to let me know he was busy doing some work over there. We spoke for quite awhile. True gentleman and warrior.
Alpha Sierra
08-24-14, 19:54
Between Ernest and Mel, what's not to like about the 92.
Much when the gun makes reaching the trigger a struggle and when the decocker is in the wrong place.
Much when the gun makes reaching the trigger a struggle and when the decocker is in the wrong place.
Better than CZ 75 on both accounts though.
Much when the gun makes reaching the trigger a struggle and when the decocker is in the wrong place.
Never a problem for me.
DreadPirateMoyer
08-24-14, 22:04
Much when the gun makes reaching the trigger a struggle and when the decocker is in the wrong place.
Yeah, those are my least favorite things about the CZ-75 as well. :D
Alpha Sierra
08-25-14, 04:40
Better than CZ 75 on both accounts though.
That depends on your hands. There's a reason I own CZs but not Berettas.
What some consider excellent, others consider unserviceable.
The only issue I have heard with CZ's is the trigger reach for people with small hands. This can be alleviated by keeping the DA pull on the half cock notch as designed, or starting SA for guns that have a manual safety. In addition, different triggers are available as is trigger work to customize the trigger pull to fit you.
The biggest issue with the 92 for me is the position, and operation of the safety. Conversion to a "G" model fixes that.
That depends on your hands. There's a reason I own CZs but not Berettas.
What some consider excellent, others consider unserviceable.
For me, the P Series guns fixed the problem of no deckcocker or odd decocker and too far trigger reach compared to the standard CZ75 series. Like you alluded to, everyone is different so there are no absolutes when it comes to ergonomics.
The only issue I have heard with CZ's is the trigger reach for people with small hands. This can be alleviated by keeping the DA pull on the half cock notch as designed, or starting SA for guns that have a manual safety. In addition, different triggers are available as is trigger work to customize the trigger pull to fit you.
The biggest issue with the 92 for me is the position, and operation of the safety. Conversion to a "G" model fixes that.
Ditto for me on the CZ75. I preferred starting the gun in DA mode, so I had to manually lowered the hammer then make sure that it is in the half cock notch to allow for better trigger reach. I could reach and pull the trigger with the hammer in the full forward position but it is quite a long reach with the tip of my index finger. As for starting the gun in SA mode, that was out of the question for me. The CZ75 series put the thumb safety in the wrong location for people with small hands. WTF??? do all Czechs have huge hands? The thumb safety is too far forward and too high ! It is not in the ideal location as the 1911s or the High Power. Otherwise, I loved shooting the CZ75.
How did I solve the problem? With the CZ P07 :) The decocker works exactly like the "G" Beretta and it's reachable. The recoil is minimal, the gun is reliable and super accurate.
With all of this Beretta talk and the approaching Langdon pistol class in two weeks, I handled my first Beretta in 4 years on Saturday. Must admit that the bug is back and that store gun felt like an old friend.
For me, the P Series guns fixed the problem of no deckcocker or odd decocker and too far trigger reach compared to the standard CZ75 series. Like you alluded to, everyone is different so there are no absolutes when it comes to ergonomics.
Exactly.
brushy bill
08-27-14, 20:53
Updates new models?
I would like to buy another Brigadier model if they brought it back
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y527/sleepyweezol/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpscf0e043e.jpg
plouffedaddy
08-30-14, 09:08
Updates new models?
Just heard this morning the "G" models are being released again.
Will Fennell
11-22-14, 22:00
The Beretta/Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical solves a lot of problems discussed in this thread.....
29863
Brigadier 'G' slide gives you a decocker only gun, and removable/replaceable rear AND front sights. The frame has a rail for your light....beveled mag well....D spring....man, this thing is EASY to shoot well.
ramairthree
11-23-14, 02:03
Can anyone with first hand successful experience advise how hard it is to replace polymer trigger with steel parts kit or Wilson version and tools required? Carried one plenty but did not go to this level BB of disassembly. PM if it derails thread.
Takes like 5 minutes.
Take off slide.
Take of slide release lever.
Take off right grip.
Take off trigger bar.
Take out trigger pin and trigger.
Replace trigger.
put trigger spring in place.
put trigger ping back in.
push arm of trigger spring forward and put trigger bar in.
put slide release back in
replace grip.
messing with the side/safety parts tends to take a little longer,
but most frame based stuff is a 5 minute job.
Funny how the rental range guy keeps breaking slides but not locking blocks.
I have seen about a dozens and dozens of Berettas get beat to hell during high volume/high round count cycles,
always end up breaking an early locking block or two but never any slides.
Larry Vickers
11-23-14, 06:29
Ernie is THE guy that showed everybody that a DA/SA handgun can be shot at the highest levels of IDPA competition - not that it is the best choice for everybody but he proved it could be done and done well
Bill Wilson was wise when he hooked up with Ernie on the WC Beretta's
Robb Jensen
11-23-14, 07:07
I sell firearms for a living,the Beretta 92 family are our second best selling firearm(after the Glock 19 Gen 4),we don't have any problems with them,Sig on the other hand.I agree with the idea that Beretta could do a much better job if they reintroduced some of their older models.Beretta is a very viable alternative for those that don't want a stryker fired,polymer pistol.The search for a new service pistol will more than likely may only serve to make the platform less popular.Thankfully the work of Mr.Langdon and Mr.Wilson may counter this.
I've seen a few cracked slides too. All of due to lack of preventative maintenance like replacing the locking block AFTER its cracked...it's akin to driving on a flat tire, at some point you're gonna F'up the wheel.
From reading innumerable threads on the topic, the difference in the 92's reputation between civilian/LE use and military service is significant. It's remarkable how a gun can go from "outstanding/reliable/accurate" to "total crap".
ramairthree
11-23-14, 11:37
From reading innumerable threads on the topic, the difference in the 92's reputation between civilian/LE use and military service is significant. It's remarkable how a gun can go from "outstanding/reliable/accurate" to "total crap".
It is a wide range.
I have seen slide damage or frame damage on a couple of occasions from a broken locking block, but never the isolated slide crack and have been around lots of high volume M9s for lots of years. Luck?
Seen plenty of Colt M4s and myself had plenty of broken bolt lugs on well lubed guns.
People love 1911s, and I have seen a ton over the years. Even from good rep makers some need to ton of work and effort to keep running good. Some run like a Swiss watch.
I hear endless stuff about the super reliability of Glocks, and mine have been reliable and always work, but I see people limp wristing or having other problems with them plenty. They also seem to be a common ND among the brain fart crowd.
I do not think much of the XDs,
an maybe my view is skewed, but I have not seen any have a MF at matches. And have seen a decent number.
I have seen a smaller number of M&Ps,
which were all running and hitting good, but know some that loath them.
I guess a lot of gun can have a wide range of opinions.
TimeOnTarget
11-23-14, 11:52
It was very difficult get new magazines. I procured several new mags from a LEO friend prior to deployment. The gun was difficult to keep clean with the open slide in the desert. Brown out landings inundated the cockpit with dust. I think a Glock would have handled it better.
Kandahar 2003 DUSTOFF 126 MED attached to 82 AA
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/MS4764/MyWeapon_zps88def418.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/MS4764/media/MyWeapon_zps88def418.jpg.html)
It was very difficult get new magazines. I procured several new mags from a LEO friend prior to deployment. The gun was difficult to keep clean with the open slide in the desert. Brown out landings inundated the cockpit with dust. I think a Glock would have handled it better.
Kandahar 2003 DUSTOFF 126 MED attached to 82 AA
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y95/MS4764/MyWeapon_zps88def418.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/MS4764/media/MyWeapon_zps88def418.jpg.html)
I NEVER trusted issued magazines in any weapon that I was issued. I've gotten both my M9 very dirty on deployments and never had reliability issues which I chalk up to the new Mec-Gar mags that I cleaned at least weekly.
Kandahar 2003 DUSTOFF 126 MED attached to 82 AA
Cool pic. Do you fly a Blackhawk? I would think a full flap holster like an M11 would help keep sand/dust out, but it just may be too fine, and powdery for anything to work well. Challenging for sure.
brushy bill
11-23-14, 15:27
Takes like 5 minutes.
Take off slide.
Take of slide release lever.
Take off right grip.
Take off trigger bar.
Take out trigger pin and trigger.
Replace trigger.
put trigger spring in place.
put trigger ping back in.
push arm of trigger spring forward and put trigger bar in.
put slide release back in
replace grip.
messing with the side/safety parts tends to take a little longer,
but most frame based stuff is a 5 minute job.
Funny how the rental range guy keeps breaking slides but not locking blocks.
I have seen about a dozens and dozens of Berettas get beat to hell during high volume/high round count cycles,
always end up breaking an early locking block or two but never any slides.
Thanks ramairthree. Picked up a plain jane Brigadier reintroduction and plan to replace the polymer with steel once Brownells gets the parts back in stock.
TimeOnTarget
11-23-14, 22:43
Cool pic. Do you fly a Blackhawk? I would think a full flap holster like an M11 would help keep sand/dust out, but it just may be too fine, and powdery for anything to work well. Challenging for sure.
I am retired now. Yes, 19 years Army and 5 years Air Force. Hawks, Pave Hawks, C12s, and C23s.
The really fine dust is like talcum powder. It gets into everything!
ramairthree
11-24-14, 00:34
Thanks ramairthree. Picked up a plain jane Brigadier reintroduction and plan to replace the polymer with steel once Brownells gets the parts back in stock.
No prob,
Beretta USA is having a black Friday sale right now and the steel parts sets are a good deal.
I am retired now. Yes, 19 years Army and 5 years Air Force. Hawks, Pave Hawks, C12s, and C23s.
The really fine dust is like talcum powder. It gets into everything!
Thank you for your service. Did you ever cross path with our late moderator Army Chief/CW5 Chuck Petrie?
brushy bill
11-24-14, 18:53
No prob,
Beretta USA is having a black Friday sale right now and the steel parts sets are a good deal.
Thanks again! That was 25% off plus free shipping. Much appreciated.
No prob,
Beretta USA is having a black Friday sale right now and the steel parts sets are a good deal.
Thanks for the heads up. Got some parts myself.
Brought a friend shooting last weekend. Had my wife's 92FS and a Gen3 G19. I've grown to really love the way the 92FS shoots. Very accurate and love the D spring conversion.
TimeOnTarget
11-25-14, 10:11
Thank you for your service. Did you ever cross path with our late moderator Army Chief/CW5 Chuck Petrie?
You are welcome.
No, I never had the pleasure of meeting him. He sure seemed like a great guy!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.