View Full Version : Most reliable 5.56 mag
Tacti-square
08-18-14, 13:10
Is there anything to the rumors I've heard about the Magpul M3 30s and 40s? How is the Troy Battlemag doing? Is the L5 AWM considered king?
richiecotite
08-18-14, 13:17
http://i60.tinypic.com/dq4rxv.jpg
My guess is most will tell you to use the search function, or that it comes down to personal preference, and that you need to test any mag sufficiently before you can trust it. You'll also hear that mags a re wear item, and to use em til they don't work, then throw them away.
Personally, I use all of the above, plus usgi style mags with MP anti tilt followers, and haven't had any mag related issues yet. Again, YMMV, small sample size, yada yada
HK mags are good, just expensive
NHMTG / Colt / Okay 30 with Magpul follower.
End of thread/.
Eurodriver
08-18-14, 13:43
NHMTG / Colt / Okay 30 with Magpul follower.
End of thread/.
You beat me to it.
Lancers, HK, et al may work but they are 2x the price and even heavier. Why bother?
Chrisreedrules
08-18-14, 13:43
I've ran thousands of rounds through PMAGs G2/G3 40rd, and the .308s with no issues. Been running the 20 round Lancer mags for my .300BLK recently but not enough to give a reliable report.
Pmags, Lancer AWMs, HK's, Tango Down, Troy, NHMTG, etc. All are great, but i doubt you can seriously narrow it down to one mag to rule them all right now.
The USGI 20, in my experience, is the reliability king. Although I've never had a problem with any of the good 30s.
I run PMags and NMHTG/Colt/Okay's with Magpul followers. I see no reason to run anything else, because these work and are cheap. MarkM nailed it in some other thread when he explained that the best answer is to have enough magazines that you're not emotionally devastated to trash one that causes malfunctions, so the cheapest ones that work well are what I buy. My PMags are pretty gucci with the range plates on them, but that's the most I'll ever pay for a magazine.
ScatmanCrothers
08-18-14, 15:00
What are the rumors you've heard about the Magpul M3 30 and 40's op?
Is it a slow day where you are? Why don't you tell everyone exactly what rumors you heard and the context?
Is there anything to the rumors I've heard about the Magpul M3 30s and 40s? How is the Troy Battlemag doing? Is the L5 AWM considered king?
I'm obviously a bit biased, of course, but I can't help but throw in. I believe in the product. I'd bet the farm on the GEN M3 side by side against anything ever made, because we've tested pretty much everything ever made. Abuse tests are great, and we certainly build for extremely impressive performance there, too, across all temperatures and conditions, but if it won't run 6k+++ without a hitch in hot, cold, dust, it's not really worth wasting time on.
Follow-on magazine improvement programs are bringing forth some interesting issues, because if you can't get failures in endurance testing, you can't tell if you've improved.
When the reliability is measured in MRBF that exceeds barrel life...is that enough? We don't think so, and we keep pushing.
I have limited experience compared to many (most?) on this forum but this is what I stick to:
Magpul PMAG (any other than Gen2 straight walled 20's)
Lancer L5 AWM (although I've noticed a particular failure to drop free under the right conditions with the mostly-clear 30's)
Good USGI 30's especially with a Magpul anti tilt follower (I really like NHMTG but there are others too, okay, labelle, D&H, etc
20 round NHMTG/Colt/USGI (these might be the single most reliable at feeding, but don't really work as a monopod, 'only' hold 20, and are not as durable when abused as some polymer options)
I'm obviously a bit biased, of course, but I can't help but throw in. I believe in the product. I'd bet the farm on the GEN M3 side by side against anything ever made, because we've tested pretty much everything ever made. Abuse tests are great, and we certainly build for extremely impressive performance there, too, across all temperatures and conditions, but if it won't run 6k+++ without a hitch in hot, cold, dust, it's not really worth wasting time on.
Follow-on magazine improvement programs are bringing forth some interesting issues, because if you can't get failures in endurance testing, you can't tell if you've improved.
When the reliability is measured in MRBF that exceeds barrel life...is that enough? We don't think so, and we keep pushing.
Duane, I understand that most of it is under wraps, but have you ever thought of releasing some of the tourture information on the Gen 3's? If you have and I am not aware of it i apologize in advance.
BufordTJustice
08-18-14, 16:11
I'm obviously a bit biased, of course, but I can't help but throw in. I believe in the product. I'd bet the farm on the GEN M3 side by side against anything ever made, because we've tested pretty much everything ever made. Abuse tests are great, and we certainly build for extremely impressive performance there, too, across all temperatures and conditions, but if it won't run 6k+++ without a hitch in hot, cold, dust, it's not really worth wasting time on.
Follow-on magazine improvement programs are bringing forth some interesting issues, because if you can't get failures in endurance testing, you can't tell if you've improved.
When the reliability is measured in MRBF that exceeds barrel life...is that enough? We don't think so, and we keep pushing.
I consider the genM3 PMAG and the Lancer AWM to be the finest mags currently available. I use and abuse both without reservation. I buy both whenever I can.
Duane, I too would love to see some of this torture test info. The GenM3 PMAG certainly addressed all of the issues I sat with the PMAG revM. It is excellent.
HK mags are good, just expensive
By far the worst magazine I have ever ran. Had less problems with the old black follower USGI magazines.
I currently use a mix of USGIs, Lancers, and Pmags without hesitation. Every one has failed at some point - mostly due to external forces. Longevity isn't an issue, unless you have serious cash for ammo you aren't going to wear them out, and if you do its what? $10-15 for a new one? It costs that much just to load it up with quality ammo.
Rick
Is there anything to the rumors I've heard about the Magpul M3 30s and 40s? How is the Troy Battlemag doing? Is the L5 AWM considered king?
It is almost a case by case type thing. Meaning, it depends on YOUR gun. Some AR's don't work well with PMAGs and so on. If we are saying "all around" meaning will work with a wide range of platforms, probably a quality USGI mag with a Magpul follower.
HK's new clear polymer mag has been working well for many people as well.
C4
MorphCross
08-18-14, 16:16
STANAG pattern aluminum whether 30 or 20.
PMAG
Lancer L5AWM/TangoDown MK2
In order of reliability on feeding and drop free.
Lancer L5AWM
PMAG
TangoDown MK2
STANAG pattern
In order of long term durability of the feed lips.
Lancer/PMAG
STANAG Pattern Aluminum
TangoDown MK2
In order of User serviceability.
Pick the one that matters the most to you.
ColtSeavers
08-18-14, 16:30
Troy Battlemags
USGI 30rd mags with magpul followers
Brownell's (tactical) 30rd mags with magpul followers (no ranger floorplates)
Brownell's (tactical) 20rd mags with their followers (no ranger floorplates)
2 Surefire 60rd magazines
All run fine in my ARs. No problems to date (knock on wood).
Doc Safari
08-18-14, 17:06
I pretty much agree with the above posts.
I'll just add that I've never really experienced problems with USGI mags made by Center Industries, although I've heard a few stories from people who've had isolated issues.
Supposedly the tan follower mags are less popular than the earlier green follower mags.
Really though, I'd say that a new NHMTG mag with a MagPul follower is about the apex of reliability for the money.
Nothing wrong with Pmags; I just don't care for them.
Eurodriver
08-18-14, 17:42
I'm obviously a bit biased, of course, but I can't help but throw in. I believe in the product. I'd bet the farm on the GEN M3 side by side against anything ever made, because we've tested pretty much everything ever made. Abuse tests are great, and we certainly build for extremely impressive performance there, too, across all temperatures and conditions, but if it won't run 6k+++ without a hitch in hot, cold, dust, it's not really worth wasting time on.
Follow-on magazine improvement programs are bringing forth some interesting issues, because if you can't get failures in endurance testing, you can't tell if you've improved.
When the reliability is measured in MRBF that exceeds barrel life...is that enough? We don't think so, and we keep pushing.
I love PMAGs, but my issue with plastic magazines will always be the plastic. With any future federal ban on magazines likely to be permanent, I want my (normally disposable) magazines to last as long as possible.
Maybe it's a mental thing. Maybe it's totally irrelevent. But in my mind an aluminum magazine (specifically referring to the feedlips) will outlive a polymer magazine. I will take a USGI Green follower magazine over a PMAG any day if it's the last magazine I'm ever going to be able to own. Am I off base here?
For the record - I own 50+ M3 PMags. I was issued PMags in the USMC. They have been extremely reliable in every AR I've ever used them in. This isn't a bash Pmag post. This is a pro-aluminum post.
I love PMAGs, but my issue with plastic magazines will always be the plastic. With any future federal ban on magazines likely to be permanent, I want my (normally disposable) magazines to last as long as possible.
Maybe it's a mental thing. Maybe it's totally irrelevent. But in my mind an aluminum magazine (specifically referring to the feedlips) will outlive a polymer magazine. I will take a USGI Green follower magazine over a PMAG any day if it's the last magazine I'm ever going to be able to own. Am I off base here?
For the record - I own 50+ M3 PMags. I was issued PMags in the USMC. They have been extremely reliable in every AR I've ever used them in. This isn't a bash Pmag post. This is a pro-aluminum post.
Already discussed at length for several pages in another thread. The life of good polymer, at least what we use, is nearly eternal.
Duane, I understand that most of it is under wraps, but have you ever thought of releasing some of the tourture information on the Gen 3's? If you have and I am not aware of it i apologize in advance.
We have an initiative that is doing some continuing side x side testing for release, and we'll probably start showing more of what we've done already. We've also long had a policy of not releasing our test data when it refers to others in the marketplace just due to a perception of bias, but we may re-evaluate that position at some point to set the record straight with video and other evidence, if necessary. We do our testing with large enough sample sizes and with strict control measures that anyone is welcome to replicate. Dust boxes, multi-axis drops on the same mag, multi-axis full weapon drops on the same mag, floorplate endurance, mag well ripout, -60 to 180, tac-reload repetition, magazine monopod firing, etc., with FEEDING and FUNCTIONING testing on the backside. We do some testing that we won't release because it's secret sauce that helps us maintain QC that is difficult to attain, but most will likely be released.
The expectations of modern magazine performance are pretty amazing, but it's difficult to see the true differences without LARGE samples. If you fire 2,000 rounds through 6 magazines in a week-long, mega training class, and you have 2 stoppages the entire time...was it ammo? Was the gun dry? Was it the mag? Feed ramp sharp? We tend to make excuses for our gear when running it hard. In that context, if it was 2, or even one magazine-related failures in 2k rounds...heads would roll, here, or at least we certainly would consider that an abysmal failure and launch an investigation as to why.
The USGI is something of a nameless, faceless standard that we don't mind showing the weaknesses of, but manufacturer DEFINITELY matters. Coming from Brownells, I'm very familiar with the aluminum magazine, what it takes to make one, what it's good at, and what it's not, and I don't feel uncomfortable with good aluminum mags with our follower. I'm just more likely to scrap an aluminum and replace it if there's any question whatsoever about impacts to the feed lips, body sides, etc., and I clean them. I treat PMAGs like I treat Glocks. Unkindly.
Boba Fett v2
08-18-14, 19:05
USGI mags and PMAGs/EMAGs are what I rely on the most. I didn't run the Troy mags long enough to give an honest assessment, but they appear to be GTG. The Lancers are good, just not enough time with them beyond a few mags at the range. The steel AR Stoner mags have been running reliably so far. I've had some issue with the Cammenga Easy Mags. I only have one, which I got to try out. Won't be buying another and won't pass it off. It'll stay in the bag and be used strictly for static duty at the range.
Most reliable? Show me the data is the question I would ask.
I've found C-Products GI style magazines to be of good quality, however, I am not in a combat zone, nor do I play one on TV or in the mall.
I also have Pmags and a bunch of HK proprietary and standard magazines, all of which I also find of good quality.
Saying any one is better than another would be difficult given my generally positive experience with most of them.
Tapco is about the only brand I would definitely call clearly questionable, but I'm sure there are folks on the internet who would disagree.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess this topic is already well covered in an number of threads found using the search function.
We've also long had a policy of not releasing our test data when it refers to others in the marketplace just due to a perception of bias
- Yep, smart move, as I'm sure it would eventually involve lawyers and judges! :)
Most reliable 5.56 magazine? That is easy: HK G36 mag, with Beryl green mag close behind :cool:
Seriously, going back to M4 world: my experience is that good quality polymer mags will be reliable for very long time. Of course those also can and will wear out or break - as every man made thing. From current crop best bet would be Magpul Gen3 and HK polymer mag. I reviewed both for magazine article and found that each of those have small edge over other in some areas but it was minor in both cases. It is obvious that both maker used different set of design criteria, but both put lot of effort in R&D and extensive testing and this shows. What is most amazing in HK, it is that they managed to get this level of reliability in fully polymer, translucent mag. On the other hand in one does not need translucent, Magpul Gen3 is best bet.
BTW I had some problems with small capacity Magpul mags (P-Mag 20 and Pmag-10 Gen3), but 30 (E-mag and P-Mag Gen3) and 40 (P-Mag Gen3) round versions always worked good for me.
BufordTJustice
08-19-14, 07:52
We have an initiative that is doing some continuing side x side testing for release, and we'll probably start showing more of what we've done already. We've also long had a policy of not releasing our test data when it refers to others in the marketplace just due to a perception of bias, but we may re-evaluate that position at some point to set the record straight with video and other evidence, if necessary. We do our testing with large enough sample sizes and with strict control measures that anyone is welcome to replicate. Dust boxes, multi-axis drops on the same mag, multi-axis full weapon drops on the same mag, floorplate endurance, mag well ripout, -60 to 180, tac-reload repetition, magazine monopod firing, etc., with FEEDING and FUNCTIONING testing on the backside. We do some testing that we won't release because it's secret sauce that helps us maintain QC that is difficult to attain, but most will likely be released.
The expectations of modern magazine performance are pretty amazing, but it's difficult to see the true differences without LARGE samples. If you fire 2,000 rounds through 6 magazines in a week-long, mega training class, and you have 2 stoppages the entire time...was it ammo? Was the gun dry? Was it the mag? Feed ramp sharp? We tend to make excuses for our gear when running it hard. In that context, if it was 2, or even one magazine-related failures in 2k rounds...heads would roll, here, or at least we certainly would consider that an abysmal failure and launch an investigation as to why.
The USGI is something of a nameless, faceless standard that we don't mind showing the weaknesses of, but manufacturer DEFINITELY matters. Coming from Brownells, I'm very familiar with the aluminum magazine, what it takes to make one, what it's good at, and what it's not, and I don't feel uncomfortable with good aluminum mags with our follower. I'm just more likely to scrap an aluminum and replace it if there's any question whatsoever about impacts to the feed lips, body sides, etc., and I clean them. I treat PMAGs like I treat Glocks. Unkindly.
Duane Thank you for sharing. I didn't know you came from Brownells. Those are my favorite aluminium magazines by far. I have many 30 rounders with your foliage follower in them.
I got into a physical while on duty with my AR slung across my chest. I kneed a guy so hard that it crushed the bottom of the mag body around the baseplate (and left me with a decent scar). I left it loaded and took it out of the rotation. On the next range trip, it functioned flawlessly. I still trashed it due to the damage, but it inspired more confidence in quality aluminum mags.
Though, I'm fairly certain a PMAG would have been fine.
Eurodriver
08-19-14, 09:05
I got into a physical while on duty with my AR slung across my chest. I kneed a guy so hard that it crushed the bottom of the mag body around the baseplate (and left me with a decent scar). I left it loaded and took it out of the rotation. On the next range trip, it functioned flawlessly.
I'm not sure what is more impressive. That you crushed an aluminum mag while kneeing a perp or that it still worked.
Holy crap dude!!
I kneed a guy so hard that it crushed the bottom of the mag body around the baseplate.
I've always had good luck with pmags, lancers, and NHMGT mags.
PA PATRIOT
08-19-14, 10:04
I have been running the "Enhanced" Tan Follower USGI magazines in classes and three gun events since 06/2012, with roughly 9,000rds fired in several AR's with only two magazine related failures which was both caused by operator damage.
Twice my dumped magazines struck a rock and damaged the feed lips that I didn't immediately notice when reloading which caused a malfunction, other then that just a simple cleaning with a magazine brush and soapy water was all the maintenance required once a year.
Seems the tan follower magazines are once again entering the market were the common negotiated price is about $5.00 each if purchased in larger lots of 20 or more.
Digital_Damage
08-19-14, 10:27
"are the rumors true?" But does not disclose the rumor, then never returns to explain himself... lock this shit.
I sure like pmags. Especially the m3. Lips won't get bent into a bad position like metal ones.
I like the reduced sound signature also.
DreadPirateMoyer
08-19-14, 10:51
I love PMAGs, but my issue with plastic magazines will always be the plastic. With any future federal ban on magazines likely to be permanent, I want my (normally disposable) magazines to last as long as possible.
Maybe it's a mental thing. Maybe it's totally irrelevent. But in my mind an aluminum magazine (specifically referring to the feedlips) will outlive a polymer magazine. I will take a USGI Green follower magazine over a PMAG any day if it's the last magazine I'm ever going to be able to own. Am I off base here?
For the record - I own 50+ M3 PMags. I was issued PMags in the USMC. They have been extremely reliable in every AR I've ever used them in. This isn't a bash Pmag post. This is a pro-aluminum post.
This is my second-least favorite meme in the gun community, the first being that HK CS sucks (it's most likely the best, in reality), so yes, I'd say you are off base here.
Quality polymer doesn't degrade like the cheap stuff you see in lawn furniture and tupperware. Insinuating PMAGs will fall apart in 5 decades because a cheap lawn chair from Wal Mart degraded in a summer is like saying the gold ring your wife wears will rust into nothingness because you saw an old iron nail rust away when exposed to salt spray. The former are both polymers and the latter are both metals, but they're completely different in performance, material properties, and environmental survivability. They are essentially completely different materials.
This is all ignoring the fact that aluminum magazines also have polymer followers, so if your PMAGs will degrade, guess what? So will the most crucial part of your magazine. Aluminum mags would be just as useless in 50 years.
Like Duane said, a search on this topic would yield troves of info. PMAGs are in for the long haul and will most likely outlast even aluminum magazines in both harsh environments and definitely in storage.
Is there anything to the rumors I've heard about the Magpul M3 30s and 40s? How is the Troy Battlemag doing? Is the L5 AWM considered king?
What rumors? I haven't heard any rumors
Once you have a magazine that works 100% of the time you can't get any "more reliable" so there's plenty of good choices listed in this thread. I have bought 30rd & more recently 40rd PMAGS because they're available, inexpensive, and always work.
556BlackRifle
08-19-14, 12:34
USGI or PMags for me. I see no reason to change at this point.
Flankenstein
08-19-14, 12:40
What rumors? I haven't heard any rumors
Rumor is the OP is clueless.
BufordTJustice
08-19-14, 13:09
I'm not sure what is more impressive. That you crushed an aluminum mag while kneeing a perp or that it still worked.
I'm a big boy. I rep at 405 for squats and I did 7 sets of 10 of 225 on bench yesterday. Not bragging, but I break shit on accident more than I would like to admit. And I was swinging for the fence. :D
brushy bill
08-19-14, 16:38
Seems the tan follower magazines are once again entering the market were the common negotiated price is about $5.00 each if purchased in larger lots of 20 or more.
Where? Never found new ones at this price.
This whole magazine nonsense has been beat to death previously. Magazines are disposable and should be treated as such. I keep magazines on tap that have never been used and are kept in reserve. Magazines are cheaper and easier to get than STD's in a Bangkok whoreshouse. If people aren't buy them, it's on them.
I've got a 10 pack of Gen M3 P-Mags that say the OP is trolling.
I've use all kind of mags over the years at work, competition, teaching and for T&E. The most reliable magazine is the one you inspect periodically.
I personally only run USGI and I have all vintages.
Eurodriver
08-20-14, 05:51
I've got a 10 pack of Gen M3 P-Mags that say the OP is trolling.
I don't think so. He's made several threads and he just seems to be of the mentality Newer = Better. On second thought, I guess it depends what your definition of trolling is.
Grand58742
08-20-14, 07:09
The most reliable magazine is the one you inspect periodically.
And use.
You can inspect it all day long, but until you start running loads through it, you can't tell if it will fit perfectly in the mag well or a little too tight. Or whether the follower might get jammed up in the body as I've seen on a couple of D&H.
Inspection and usage are the only ways of find the magazine that is "most" reliable in your platform.
Inspection and usage are the only ways of find the magazine that is "most" reliable in your platform.
Yep. I won't run a mag for defense unless I can see a little suppressed fire filth on the feed lips and follower.
Moose-Knuckle
08-20-14, 16:36
I have been running the "Enhanced" Tan Follower USGI magazines in classes and three gun events since 06/2012, with roughly 9,000rds fired in several AR's with only two magazine related failures which was both caused by operator damage.
Twice my dumped magazines struck a rock and damaged the feed lips that I didn't immediately notice when reloading which caused a malfunction, other then that just a simple cleaning with a magazine brush and soapy water was all the maintenance required once a year.
Seems the tan follower magazines are once again entering the market were the common negotiated price is about $5.00 each if purchased in larger lots of 20 or more.
Do you have an online source for these mags at that price point?
I have only seen them at APEX for $15.95 a pop.
Doc Safari
08-20-14, 16:45
I just paid $10 a pop at the LGS for Center Industries USGI mags with tan followers dated 6/10, new in wrap.
That's the lowest price I've seen.
Moose-Knuckle
08-20-14, 16:56
I just paid $10 a pop at the LGS for Center Industries USGI mags with tan followers dated 6/10, new in wrap.
That's the lowest price I've seen.
Nice, wished I could find USGI for $10 local.
brushy bill
08-20-14, 17:17
Do you have an online source for these mags at that price point?
I have only seen them at APEX for $15.95 a pop.
Botach has the tan follower Okay for 9.95 with free shippung for minimum order of 3 (out of stock). I have never seen them at $5 per. Hoping we'll get a source.
Botach has the tan follower Okay for 9.95 with free shippung for minimum order of 3 (out of stock). I have never seen them at $5 per. Hoping we'll get a source.
lol, they have them but they don't have them.
Magazines are something I've had good luck ordering from Botach though.
Moose-Knuckle
08-20-14, 17:52
Good to know thanks guys, will be checking back to see when Botach gets them in, I've had good luck ordering OEM GLOCK mags from them in the past.
3ACR_Scout
08-20-14, 18:23
In line with the comments about magazines being disposable, they're also cheap enough that it's worthwhile to buy one or two of each of the brands recommended here and try them out for yourself before you standardize on one type. I was a convert to PMAGs but went back and added more USGI mags (Okay and Colt) to the collection. I've also picked up a couple Tango Down ARC mags (BCM has a good price on them) and want to try one of the new HK polymer mags eventually. The only magazine I'm not a fan of is Lancer - the one I have functions fine, but it doesn't have as positive a feeling when it locks in place as other magazines. I'm used to the tactile confirmation "click" when I seat a magazine, and I don't feel that with Lancer. Just a personal preference, but I think it's useful to decide those things for yourself.
Dave
PA PATRIOT
08-20-14, 20:25
I shop the E&E sections of a few different boards and barter bulk deals from private sellers, I purchased over 50 Brand New in the wrapper Tan follower "Enhanced" Magazines at a average price of $5.00 each from our own E&E section this year a lone.
I have tested several types of magazines both in competition and at work. I am currently running US GI magazines and don't see any reason to change.
Moose-Knuckle
08-20-14, 20:49
I shop the E&E sections of a few different boards and barter bulk deals from private sellers, I purchased over 50 Brand New in the wrapper Tan follower "Enhanced" Magazines at a average price of $5.00 each from our own E&E section this year a lone.
Nice haul.
"The old man loved bargaining as much as an Arab trader, and he was twice as shrewd." - Ralphie A Christmas Story
Adrenaline_6
08-20-14, 20:49
I have the new HK polymer translucent mags and they have been flawless so far. I don't have thousands of rounds through them them yet so I can't speak for long term durability, but the fit, finish, feeding, and ejection has been great so far. Botach has them in sale for $49.95 for a 4 pack the last I checked.
SeriousStudent
08-20-14, 20:51
If I may?
We already have a "Where can I get it?" thread.
We already have a LOT of magazine threads.
What we honestly do not need is a "Freaky Deeky Rumor of the Weeky" thread.
If the OP wishes to contact a mod or staff member with valid testing data and supported sources documenting issues with magazines, he's welcome to do so. And we'll reopen the thread.
But this is M4Carbine.net, where we try to make informed decisions based on quantifiable data. Not unsupported hearsay. So let's try and keep the bar high, shall we?
My thanks to the folks who posted real live no fooling data.
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