Obama adding fuel to the fire

[a1fabweld]

I know these topics are delicate, but I've been reading the comments from all these articles on the Ferguson riots & they paint a picture of the racial tensions building & how average Americans feel. Now with the president adding fuel to the fire, what are your thoughts? I'm surprised the S hasn't HTF already on a larger scale. Think it will in the near future?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-to-send-holder-to-ferguson--says-police-should-not-be-militarized-213815107.html

[MorphCross]

I know these topics are delicate, but I've been reading the comments from all these articles on the Ferguson riots & they paint a picture of the racial tensions building & how average Americans feel. Now with the president adding fuel to the fire, what are your thoughts? I'm surprised the S hasn't HTF already on a larger scale. Think it will in the near future?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-to-send-holder-to-ferguson--says-police-should-not-be-militarized-213815107.html

Well...

Missouri National Guard being called up to enforce order, removal of the curfew that was completely ignored last night. I'll be happy if it doesn't turn into Kent State of the 21st century. At the very least it is no longer going to be about the police in Ferguson being militarized.

[Eurodriver]

How did he add fuel to the fire?

He said police shouldn't be militarized and hopes congress eliminates the program giving them free reign on surplus war equipment. Who would disagree with that??

Did I miss something he said about race in that article? I didn't see anything.

[a1fabweld]

How did he add fuel to the fire?

He said police shouldn't be militarized and hopes congress eliminates the program giving them free reign on surplus war equipment. Who would disagree with that??

Did I miss something he said about race in that article? I didn't see anything.

He sent Holder down there = fuel to the fire.

Yes you did miss something. I referred to the "Comments" from these articles.

[Eurodriver]

Ahh but Holder is so fair and impartial.

Also most of the comments I saw were pro LE and anti Sharpton.

Apparently the latest polls show 40% think race is too big an issue and 47% think this highlights race problems. I think once people see the YouTube video from the scene those numbers will reverse.

[montanadave]

So just to clarify. Any thread pertaining to the situation playing out in Ferguson, MO is deleted by mods/staff . . . unless it has Obama (or Holder, presumably) in the header?

Seein' as how football season is right around the corner, all I can say is "C'mon, man!"

:suicide:

[Straight Shooter]

I was kinda thinkin those streets will be so empty you can hear crickets chirp when BAWL starts up again.

[markm]

Division is the #1 tactic of this shithead President. I had to shut off the TV when I heard the retard was sending Holder down there. The biggest criminal in the Country is going??? Does this shit ever end?

[philcam]

How did he add fuel to the fire?

He said civilians shouldn't be allowed militarized weapons and hopes congress eliminates allowing civilians free reign on war type equipment or training. Who would disagree with that??

Did I miss something he said about race in that article? I didn't see anything.

Double edged sword. If the govt thinks the cops shouldn't be allowed an AR-15, body armor or training, what do you think they want to do about you having the same?

Ferguson PD's normal uniform isn't a BDU style nor do they normally drive surplus military vehicles. In fact, in all of the pre-riot photos I've seen, they are wearing blue button down collared shirts, some with ties or a white collared button down shirts and driving crown vics or Tahoes. It wasn't until the looting and riots started that the plate carrier vests, helmets and armored vehicles came out. Surely you don't suggest that while outnumbered and facing an angry-molotov-cocktail-tossing-mob who is looting and burning down buildings that they should be dressed and armed like Andy Griffith?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I think BHO learned from his "My son.." comments in the Trayvon case. I haven't paid close attention, but he seems pretty muted on the whole thing. The usual lots of words and no content. That said, that doesn't mean that behind the scenes Jarrett and Holder aren't trying to muck things up.

[Biggy]

You don't hear to much about all the black on black crime carnage that happens week after week after week after week after week in Chicago ? I wonder why ? And the college town of Hyde Park in Chicago was BHO home before he conned enough sheeple and moved to the white house on Pennsylvania Avenue. And where is Jessie and where is AL ? It really is pretty sad.

[Mauser KAR98K]

I just can't wait till this guy and the administration is out of office. He has divided us so much the country is just one big rift. At least with Bush everyone hated him (except for me at the time it seemed). Race relations have been set back for an unknown time. Booker Washington, W.E.B. DeBoise, and Martin Luther King have to be shaking their heads.

[glocktogo]

I think BHO learned from his "My son.." comments in the Trayvon case. I haven't paid close attention, but he seems pretty muted on the whole thing. The usual lots of words and no content. That said, that doesn't mean that behind the scenes Jarrett and Holder aren't trying to muck things up.

The conclusion has already been determined. All that's left is for the henchmen to force the facts into the expected outcome. I had high hopes that the FBI would be allowed to investigate this without interference. Sending Holder to Ferguson eliminates any possibility of that happening.

DoJ is completely devoid of credibility on the subject at this point. :(

[glocktogo]

I just can't wait till this guy and the administration is out of office. He has divided us so much the country is just one big rift. At least with Bush everyone hated him (except for me at the time it seemed). Race relations have been set back for an unknown time. Booker Washington, W.E.B. DeBoise, and Martin Luther King have to be shaking their heads.

I didn't hate Bush, his heart was in the right place. I just thought he was tragically misguided by the wolves in his midst. :(

[philcam]

I think BHO learned from his "My son.." comments in the Trayvon case. I haven't paid close attention, but he seems pretty muted on the whole thing. The usual lots of words and no content. That said, that doesn't mean that behind the scenes Jarrett and Holder aren't trying to muck things up.

Yep, Barry is loving this. 24/7 news coverage about Ferguson. Not a peep about his failed foreign policies, the Ukraine, Israel/Hammas etc. Hell yeah, the guy is on vacation. He is out of the news.

[BoringGuy45]

How did he add fuel to the fire?

He said police shouldn't be militarized and hopes congress eliminates the program giving them free reign on surplus war equipment. Who would disagree with that??

I would. Because we gun owners bristle at the idea that we would be denied access to surplus war equipment. Where does it say that when you pin a badge on your shirt that you sign away your own 2nd Amendment rights? Look at the drug cartels and street gangs, not to mention terrorists who will, if they haven't already, get into the U.S. They're armed to the teeth, and I don't want police officers who have to go up against them armed only with billy clubs and revolvers just because we think SWAT teams look too scary.

And look at the rhetoric many are feeding into: These weapons are for war and have no place on America's streets. If we're talking about local PDs, we give a hearty "AMEN!" If they're talking about us, we give a hearty "HELL NO! DON'T TREAD ON ME!" And remember, when we deny local LE agencies military grade weaponry, what we're saying is that we want all the high speed stuff to be concentrated in the hands of federal LE and the military.

[Mauser KAR98K]

I would. Because we gun owners bristle at the idea that we would be denied access to surplus war equipment. Where does it say that when you pin a badge on your shirt that you sign away your own 2nd Amendment rights? Look at the drug cartels and street gangs, not to mention terrorists who will, if they haven't already, get into the U.S. They're armed to the teeth, and I don't want police officers who have to go up against them armed only with billy clubs and revolvers just because we think SWAT teams look too scary.

And look at the rhetoric many are feeding into: These weapons are for war and have no place on America's streets. If we're talking about local PDs, we give a hearty "AMEN!" If they're talking about us, we give a hearty "HELL NO! DON'T TREAD ON ME!" And remember, when we deny local LE agencies military grade weaponry, what we're saying is that we want all the high speed stuff to be concentrated in the hands of federal LE and the military.

Aren't we at war with drugs, crime, poverty...terrorism? Is this the retort I give to those who say we don't need armed police and guards at schools. I ask about Israel and their model, and the answer I get is, "Because they are in a war zone."

So, aren't we at war with drugs, crime, poverty...terrorism?

[MorphCross]

Aren't we at war with drugs, crime, poverty...terrorism? Is this the retort I give to those who say we don't need armed police and guards at schools. I ask about Israel and their model, and the answer I get is, "Because they are in a war zone."

So, aren't we at war with drugs, crime, poverty...terrorism?

War on Drugs. Yes!
War on Crime. Semantically no, Technically yes.
War on Poverty. ? (Are you suggesting we are at war with the poor, or that we are waging war on the concept of poverty? For either I would say no.)
War on Terrorism. Yes.

Without expanding into the individual topics that is basically how I see it.

Now, not to take this to far off the tracks of the original post, SWAT gear for SWAT I have no problem with, Cammies for when SWAT has to perform their duties out in Banjo country I have no problem with. Plate Carriers/w plates for Line policemen I have no problem with. Patrol Rifles for line policemen I have no problem with. Riot Gear for officers trained to respond and utilize that gear responsibly I have no problem with.

Ballistic helmets for line policemen, should be subsidized by the department, but part should come from the officer whether payed for over a long period of time or up front. BDUs or Cammies for Line policemen, again subsidized by the department, but also partially paid for by the officer.

[Mauser KAR98K]

NYT has "mapped" out where military hardware has gone. Notice they have "assault rifles" on it.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/15/us/surplus-military-equipment-map.html?_r=3

Funny, my county is not listed, but we got an MRAP this year.

[a1fabweld]

I wonder what kinds of kinky things this admin is allowing to happen down at the border while we're all distracted with this BS little event?

[brushy bill]

War on Terrorism.

Nope. Current administration changed Global War on Terror to Overseas Contingency Operations. No war on terror.

[a1fabweld]

Looks like things heated up a little last night. More cocktails & heavy gunfire says the Progressive media: http://news.yahoo.com/police-protesters-collide-again-ferguson-071214374.html

[BoringGuy45]

THIS kind of stuff is why there's these problems.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/ferguson_how_white_people_can_be_allies.html

This BS about "rampant racism" and systematic oppression and how I, by simply being white, am part of the problem. I couldn't read more than a paragraph of this because I don't suffer fools, I hate willful ignorance and I could feel my blood pressure rising. For those of you who want to keep your IQs from dropping, I'll spare you and sum it up: We need to make an effort to prove to every black person we see that we are among the few "good white people" because they perceive us all as the Man keeping them down. I wish I could say this to this author: You want to know how to stop racism? Stop obsessing about race! Stop the damn witch hunt! Stop outraging everyone by making up stories about how white people today are more horribly racist than ever! When you feel like we need special instructions on how to talk to a person with a skin tone darker than our own, you're training us to look at that person as different and not completely compatible with us. Here's a hint: Treat everyone the same! Don't even take their race into account or feel the need to apologize for having been born white! If they don't like you because they assume that, because you are white you must be a racist, than THEY are the racist!

[a1fabweld]

THIS kind of stuff is why there's these problems.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/ferguson_how_white_people_can_be_allies.html

This BS about "rampant racism" and systematic oppression and how I, by simply being white, am part of the problem. I couldn't read more than a paragraph of this because I don't suffer fools, I hate willful ignorance and I could feel my blood pressure rising. For those of you who want to keep your IQs from dropping, I'll spare you and sum it up: We need to make an effort to prove to every black person we see that we are among the few "good white people" because they perceive us all as the Man keeping them down. I wish I could say this to this author: You want to know how to stop racism? Stop obsessing about race! Stop the damn witch hunt! Stop outraging everyone by making up stories about how white people today are more horribly racist than ever! When you feel like we need special instructions on how to talk to a person with a skin tone darker than our own, you're training us to look at that person as different and not completely compatible with us. Here's a hint: Treat everyone the same! Don't even take their race into account or feel the need to apologize for having been born white! If they don't like you because they assume that, because you are white you must be a racist, than THEY are the racist!

:bad: The author of that article need to apply direct pressure to his bleeding heart before he bleeds out. What a crock of shit.

[MorphCross]

Nope. Current administration changed Global War on Terror to Overseas Contingency Operations. No war on terror.

"Police Action"= War by another name.
Overseas Contingency Operations= War by another name.
Either way we are using Military assets to fight Terrorist/Insurgent operations like ISIS and the Taliban.

Getting back on the subject, things like MRAPs have been discussed here before, but Clay County (Liberty, MO is the County seat of Clay County) received an MRAP from the Military program earlier this year. It was all over the news when they brought it in as well as when the situation started turning south in Ferguson. I'll agree with what others have said before. It is no more heavily armed than any other police vehicle, It will more than likely sit unused throughout most of the year, and it will more than likely become a financial burden due to maintenance. Would they have been better served by getting up-armored Suburbans and such? Probably. But they would have had to foot the bill for the Suburban and the up-armoring process.

[rocsteady]

How did he add fuel to the fire?

He said police shouldn't be militarized and hopes congress eliminates the program giving them free reign on surplus war equipment. Who would disagree with that??

Did I miss something he said about race in that article? I didn't see anything.

He stated that the cause of the criminal activity by the black community is because they feel as though they've been left behind. He blamed urban black violence on racism and poverty. To which a commentator on Fox stated that racism and poverty were much higher in the 60s and yet violent crime was lower, blowing the Skeet shooter's whole statement to pieces.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

What is militarized when it comes to police?

Body Armor?
AR15s?
Armored Vehicles?

Those have legitimate uses in law enforcement, especially as the criminal populace gets their hands on bigger and badder weapons. Do you want more restrictions on the sort of weapons that a criminal could possibly get that requires body armor, AR15s, and armored vehicles? Or do you want less restrictions on guns but to take away the ability of law enforcement to respond to a Aurora type shooting?

Let me tell you something, a 9mm, a trauma plate the size of a bible, and a Crown Vic doesnt fare well against an AR15...

[GunBugBit]

He said police shouldn't be militarized and hopes congress eliminates the program giving them free reign on surplus war equipment. Who would disagree with that??
I'm totally fine with the police being "militarized". It is a natural occurrence when something like 9/11 occurs and we engage in long-lasting wars.

If we are ever invaded/attacked by external enemies, I think we could be glad our cops are heavily armed. I have yet to have a cop say to my face that I have too many guns. I wouldn't say the same to him.

[a1fabweld]

Looks like a "Peaceful protester" was killed last night after coming at some cops with a knife:

http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-protests-live-updates-day-10-130710733.html

[TAZ]

I'm totally fine with the police being "militarized". It is a natural occurrence when something like 9/11 occurs and we engage in long-lasting wars.

If we are ever invaded/attacked by external enemies, I think we could be glad our cops are heavily armed. I have yet to have a cop say to my face that I have too many guns. I wouldn't say the same to him.

Im totally ok with them having some military equipment. Preferably the same equipment I can have access to. Don't really want an MRAP, but I wouldn't turn down a MK18 or even an M4.

Our focus on police equipment as it relates to militarized police is eerily similar to the anti gunners focus on guns as they relate to crime. The gun is a tool of the criminal; not the crime. The MRAP and machine guns are simple tools that have a place in law enforcement. The mentality that everything needs a machine gun, that no knocks are OK, the you can't record me out in public but I can steal all your data, that you can't have an AR, that you're hiding something if you don't answer questions... That crap is the true militarization of police. Equipment schmequipment.

[MorphCross]

You can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt many beat officers have full autos. Especially if they purchased their own patrol rifle. The Autos are usually kept under lock and key for Special Weapons And Tactics, not for your run of the mill.

I would expect there to be certain amount of nervousness if you were told to serve a warrant on someone who was known to have a history of violence, including violence with a firearm. By and large Law abiding citizens don't regularly receive warrants for their arrest. The problem is when the Idiot who types in the address on the warrant screws up, or if the officer in charge of serving the warrant pulls up to the wrong house.

I agree that if they can record us, we can record them. Audio and video both.

The hiding something if you don't answer my questions, this is where knowing your rights is critical.

My problem with the MRAP is purely logistical, not based on it's appearance. If it was a true military APC with a grenade launcher or a machine gun mounted to the top you could bet I would yell to the high heavens about militarization. But they aren't.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I know these topics are delicate, but I've been reading the comments from all these articles on the Ferguson riots & they paint a picture of the racial tensions building & how average Americans feel. Now with the president adding fuel to the fire, what are your thoughts? I'm surprised the S hasn't HTF already on a larger scale. Think it will in the near future?

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-to-send-holder-to-ferguson--says-police-should-not-be-militarized-213815107.html

Of course he is adding fuel to the fire, he was a "Community Organizer" out of the gate. Just like he did with the Trayvon Martin shooting when he said the infamous "If I had a son" statement. Eric Holder is the worst of all, as deputy AG under Reno he had his hands in Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC and now Fast & Furious, allowing the border to be unsecure, the George Zimmerman whitch hunt, and now this latest debacle.

"You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." - Rahm Emanuel (former Obama Chief of Staff)