View Full Version : AAC vs OPS Inc.
I have heard the AAC M42K cans and the sound is very impressive, my question is are the OPS suppressors really that much more quiet, or does everyone like them because of the tension mount? I could care less about the attachment system as my cans are not for precision purposes, mostly SBR applications and just wanted to know why all the hatred for the AAC cans?
OK, maybe hate is a little strong, but it seems that AAC has turned into a 4 letter word on most of the gun sites, and I was wondering why all the bad press, I mean what makes OPS sooooooooooooo much better besides the mount?
OK, maybe hate is a little strong, but it seems that AAC has turned into a 4 letter word on most of the gun sites, and I was wondering why all the bad press, I mean what makes OPS sooooooooooooo much better besides the mount?
The attitude of the ownership.
The AAC M4-2000 mount is good, reliable and easy to use. Some people, myself included, got a little concerned about how the retaining spring on the M4-2000 would come to rest "on a ridge and not in a valley." AAC told me just to turn the can backwards until I get to the first valley and all would be well - they were right.
As for the bad press, some people didn't like some of the responses posted by the owner on some of the boards... Unfortunately, his customer skills aren't always as good as his silencer building skills - but that's why they hired Freddy and HE IS THE MAN when it comes to taking care of customer problems. AAC products and customer service are G2G.
Pick the one you think is "cooler", and will look better on your carbine. Both are built stong enough to withstand anything a person paying for a $200 stamp to own will ever do with a suppressed weapon. - (only an idiot will run beta mags through a 7.5" M16)
If you are running a SBR - I'd go with OPS because the brake will take the abuse instead of the blast baffle, and it offers a shorter OAL.
If you get a group of people together to hear both (I have a few times)
most wont be able to tell a SCAR-SD from a 14th model, or a M4-2000 from a 15th model.
I like AAC and OPS. I have nothing bad to say about either product.
I have heard the AAC M42K cans and the sound is very impressive, my question is are the OPS suppressors really that much more quiet, or does everyone like them because of the tension mount? I could care less about the attachment system as my cans are not for precision purposes, mostly SBR applications and just wanted to know why all the hatred for the AAC cans?
The M4-2000 is quieter. The accuracy and zero-shift are excellent with the M4-2000.
What hatred? They seem to sell very well.
OK, maybe hate is a little strong, but it seems that AAC has turned into a 4 letter word on most of the gun sites, and I was wondering why all the bad press, I mean what makes OPS sooooooooooooo much better besides the mount?
I would think that the mount is one of the few points of the Ops, Inc. silencer. Our mount was selected in two recent military tests. It has prove to be an excellent mounting option.
The M4-2000 is quieter. The accuracy and zero-shift are excellent with the M4-2000.
What hatred? They seem to sell very well.
I know, my dad just got his ranger and I should have my M4-2000 6.8 paperwork back any day now. I guess I just wanted to know what all the hype about the OPS cans was about. I'm a heavy handed, clumbsy, and impatient grunt at heart and while I do like the tensioning of the OPS mount, I can forsee two things happening if I bought an OPS can:
1. I would somehow lose the thread protector and mess the threads up by treating my rifles like they were designed to be treated (like crap)
2. I would either over torque the can and once again ruin the threads, or under torque the can and have a baffle strike
I was able to get my hands on your (AAC) SOPMOD mounts and they bring the can back over the barrel just like the OPS can, so the overall length thing is a mute point with me as my 10.5 inch barrel and 7" can bring the total length to right at 16", and even less than that with the SCAR SD. I also think that I prefer this mount because of how "joe-proof" it is, if I screw up an AAC mount, I'm pretty sure that I screwed up my rifle too, the acme threads are pretty bomb proof.
I guess that I just wanted to do my homework before I bought a 5.56 can because I really just wanted the quietest, which you say is yours, so unless someone can tell me otherwise, I guess I'll go for another M42000, this one in 5.56 instead of 6.8. *****unless you want to sell me a S2R;) *****
I can forsee two things happening if I bought an OPS can:
1. I would somehow lose the thread protector and mess the threads up by treating my rifles like they were designed to be treated (like crap)
2. I would either over torque the can and once again ruin the threads, or under torque the can and have a baffle strike
no one arent going to mess up the threads if they lose the thread protector, and you cannot over torque enough to even think about damaging the threads or under torque enough to cause a baffle strike.
I doubt anyone treats their carbines worse than I do mine(I lost my thread protector the day I screwed the brake on), and I highly doubt they treat them any worse than the .mil groups who have been running OPS cans for the last 20 years.
The M4-2000 is quieter.
You must have damn good ears. I've demoed them together many times and no one yet said one was louder than the other.
The neat demo is the 15th on a 7.5" next to a SCAR-SD on a 14.5" barrel. Again, you can't tell them apart.
You must have damn good ears. I've demoed them together many times and no one yet said one was louder than the other.
The neat demo is the 15th on a 7.5" next to a SCAR-SD on a 14.5" barrel. Again, you can't tell them apart.
Yes, the Ops, Inc. silencer is pretty good and the sound is close. We use proper instrumentation for sound measurement. There are too many variables with using the "ear," hearing loss, distance for muzzle and ejection port, etc.
Are 7.5" 5.56mm barrels becoming popular? I have never even seen one...
Yes, the Ops, Inc. silencer is pretty good and the sound is close. We use proper instrumentation for sound measurement. There are too many variables with using the "ear," hearing loss, distance for muzzle and ejection port, etc.
Are 7.5" 5.56mm barrels becoming popular? I have never even seen one...
"proper instrumentation" may look nice in a bid for a fancy contract, but form 4 customers usually let their ears determine what they can tell apart.
But since you have the numbers - How close are they?
I doubt 7.5" ARs will ever be popular, they are worthless IMO as a weapon, and nothing more than a fun range toy. Un suppressed, I dont even like being around them - no fun at all.
The numbers game only works IF you have the same equipment - same direction and distance - same weapons -- and realistically about the same time so you guarantee atmopherics etc.
I have seen a lot of "fun with numbers" with some suppressor companies.
The numbers game only works IF you have the same equipment - same direction and distance - same weapons -- and realistically about the same time so you guarantee atmopherics etc.
I have seen a lot of "fun with numbers" with some suppressor companies.
Yup, there is usually a whole lot of disappointment any time I get a group together to hear different suppressors. Its next to impossible for most people tell the good ones apart from another.
Kevin,
In your travels...
I know the Canadians have all kinds of OPS cans. Have you ever heard of any issues regarding user problems with the mounting system?
Yup, there is usually a whole lot of disappointment any time I get a group together to hear different suppressors. Its next to impossible for most people tell the good ones apart from another.
Kevin,
In your travels...
I know the Canadians have all kinds of OPS cans. Have you ever heard of any issues regarding user problems with the mounting system?
Just that the barrel mod. is a PITA, and that it is not fast-attach.
We just use Mil-Std for sound testing.
Just that the barrel mod. is a PITA, and that it is not fast-attach.
We just use Mil-Std for sound testing.
My bad, the Canadian Q was for KevinB:)
Kevin/aac - what were the numbers you got when comparing the 15th to the M4-2K?
I am quite interested in seeing anyone's numbers. I don't consider them gospel, in fact, I'll always consider the source. But it seems a few years ago everyone posted numbers, now no one does. Could it be because, between the Big Boys, the difference is negligible? Could it be that one may attenuate sound better, in general, however produce a frequency more easily audible, or recognizable to the human ear? Lower frequencies carry and are non directional, whilst higher frequencies are short lived, and all-too directional. If I have to engage someone from distance, I know they'll hear me, but will they be able to pinpoint me?
Because humans fire small arms at humans, not at multimillion dollar sound equipment, I will always look to a human to tell me what he heard, and thought.
Bear in mind, I am not a warrior by trade, and I don't decide RFPs. I'm a businessman, CO, and a soccer coach.;)
Voodoochild
09-18-06, 21:18
I am quite interested in seeing anyone's numbers. I don't consider them gospel, in fact, I'll always consider the source. But it seems a few years ago everyone posted numbers, now no one does. Could it be because, between the Big Boys, the difference is negligible? Could it be that one may attenuate sound better, in general, however produce a frequency more easily audible, or recognizable to the human ear? Lower frequencies carry and are non directional, whilst higher frequencies are short lived, and all-too directional. If I have to engage someone from distance, I know they'll hear me, but will they be able to pinpoint me?
Because humans fire small arms at humans, not at multimillion dollar sound equipment, I will always look to a human to tell me what he heard, and thought.
Bear in mind, I am not a warrior by trade, and I don't decide RFPs. I'm a businessman, CO, and a soccer coach.;)
"Insert Nelson Muntz laugh" "Soccer Mom" Just joking man.
You'll be the first in line to buy my "Soccer Moms Gone Wild" video, won't you?!
Voodoo-
Nice avatar. You should have left Blackout under it.
Kevin
Consensus results based on informal shooting shows that sometimes the "numbers" don't tell the whole story.
Also, a test using an M-16 may not represent what the end user will be doing, and that's why the shoots that ADCO has are invaluable.
I've also noticed that the type of handgun can play a large part in pistol cans perceived noise levels.
A Glock 19 with an Evo sounds much different than my Beretta 92 with an Evo. From both perspectives. Me shooting and me listening to each.
I fully agree that numbers - even in the mil-spec testing parameter are meaningless.
Bullet flight noise is a given anyway -- as a shooter I am more concerned about muzzle side signature in both smoke and flash than an increase in sound suppression below bullet flight noise.
I know of only one real problem with a .338LM OPSINC can -- the rest on 10" guns to M240's seem to work well. That said I cant say they are any better than other brands used.
Suppressors take the Canadian Army about 6-7 months to get out of the USA -- so much for allies in the GWOT... so European (Finnish) suppressors are becoming more common place (as they take a week).
One other aspect is in testing cans -- I would test on a 10-12.5" platfrom - a 14.5-16" and a 18-20" platform -- since these accurately depict the various CQB/GP/DM roles that the systems are used in.
Frankly I have not found a can that fits all three niches better than others.
It does make sense to silence below bullet flight noise. I just learned that with our 338 LM can. It is 127-129 dB at the ear with full bore ammo (as quiet as many subsonic 9mm silencers). That is quieter than I was told was theoretically possible.
Voodoochild
09-19-06, 08:27
Voodoo-
Nice avatar. You should have left Blackout under it.
Kevin
I would have but I figured I might get in a wee bit of trouble of using the whole thing. With copyright issues and all. And let me say this about this discussion you all are confusing me to death. You are all speaking in riddles about this and that. And when does the soccer mom's gone wild video go on sale?
Well, the entire thing is protected by copyright. But, I think that it is cool that you like enough to want to use it as your avatar. I do not mine.
Voodoo-
Nice avatar. You should have left Blackout under it.
Kevin
Speaking of Blackout, when can we buy an S2R or SCAR-H???? Also, how does the S2R compare to the M42000 regarding dB reduction? The manual for my M4-2000 6.8SPC says that the 5.56 version has a 34 dB reduction, and your site states only 30dB for the S2R, just wondering if this is still accurate. Also, how much does the mount for the Blackout cans come back from the shoulder of the barrel?
Just that the barrel mod. is a PITA...
I didn't think reducing less than 1 inch of the end of the barrel .05" was a PITA? The machined in locating step is much easier than having to machine the entire 20 degree shoulder into the barrel. However, there really isn't much choice if someone wants a true two point mount.
ETA: This also ignores that Colt, BM, LMT, and a number of other manufacturers cut the step into the end of the barrel at the factory and only custom barrels need additional machining.
I didn't think reducing less than 1 inch of the end of the barrel .05" was a PITA? The machined in locating step is much easier than having to machine the entire 20 degree shoulder into the barrel. However, there really isn't much choice if someone wants a true two point mount.
ETA: This also ignores that Colt, BM, LMT, and a number of other manufacturers cut the step into the end of the barrel at the factory and only custom barrels need additional machining.
I am not certain what you are talking about, but most of the OPS, Inc. silencer in the military require tapering the barrel for about 4".
What exactly makes up a "true" two point mount?
Speaking of Blackout, when can we buy an S2R or SCAR-H???? Also, how does the S2R compare to the M42000 regarding dB reduction? The manual for my M4-2000 6.8SPC says that the 5.56 version has a 34 dB reduction, and your site states only 30dB for the S2R, just wondering if this is still accurate. Also, how much does the mount for the Blackout cans come back from the shoulder of the barrel?
S2R and SCAR-H SD will be available end of the year.
Sound reduction will be confirmed later in the year.
Mounts go over the barrel 2"-3.5"
I am not certain what you are talking about, but most of the OPS, Inc. silencer in the military require tapering the barrel for about 4".
The 14th, 15th and 16th models all share the same collar that sets up to the step that is already in M4 barrels and most commercial variants. No barrel modification is necessary.
The 5.56 and .30 12th models require a different taper, but those are more mission specific suppressors and the weapons are built with that in mind.
I am not certain what you are talking about, but most of the OPS, Inc. silencer in the military require tapering the barrel for about 4".
What exactly makes up a "true" two point mount?
We must be talking about different silencers, What OPS can were you talking about? As far as I know the 12th, 14th, or 15th model OPS cans don't slide back over the barrel 4".
A true two point mounted silencer mounts to the barrel using two points of contact.
We must be talking about different silencers, What OPS can were you talking about? As far as I know the 12th, 14th, or 15th model OPS cans don't slide back over the barrel 4".
A true two point mounted silencer mounts to the barrel using two points of contact.
.30
By that definition YHM, M4-2000, SCAR-SD, SF, OPS, SCRC, etc. are two point mounts.
I didn't realize you were talking about .30 cal cans, I assumed you knew OPS sold more 5.56 can than anything else.
A simple flash hider mount is not a two point mount since the suppressor isn't mounting to the barrel at two points.
I didn't realize you were talking about .30 cal cans, I assumed you knew OPS sold more 5.56 can than anything else.
A simple flash hider mount is not a two point mount since the suppressor isn't mounting to the barrel at two points.
Many flash hider mounts are as "two point" as touching a set screw affixed centering collar at the rear, which is slipped of the barrel. These flash hider mounts contact the silencers in two or more points, just like the OPS, Inc. silencers.
Voodoochild
09-20-06, 09:42
Is there a Complete idiots guide to Cans? I am getting confused with all this stuff you all talk about. With so many diffeent cans out there and how they mount and so on. You can see how it can be confusing.
I didn't realize you were talking about .30 cal cans, I assumed you knew OPS sold more 5.56 can than anything else.
Nitrox -- dont be so sure...;)
Yes, the Ops, Inc. silencer is pretty good and the sound is close. We use proper instrumentation for sound measurement. There are too many variables with using the "ear," hearing loss, distance for muzzle and ejection port, etc.
Are 7.5" 5.56mm barrels becoming popular? I have never even seen one...
removed
Nitrox -- dont be so sure...;)
I don't know about 20 years ago but someone at OPS said they made more 5.56 now than anything. But if I'm wrong then so be it.
Gents -
Based on a number of posts I have seen, this thread is showing signs of degeneration. Let's not let it implode. Thanks.
I guess since they can sell to civies they have have upped their 5.56mm cans - but the SPR/Mk12 is the only US weapon officially wearing and OPSINC can. A lot of non US Mil SOF units are running their .30 and .338LM cans. I have not spoken to S. recently either.
Voodoochild
09-20-06, 11:32
Somewhat. Weren't you the one who recently trained your monkey to fire one and then videotaped him doing it?
voodoochild- You think chopping off a company's name keeps you out of trouble? Kinda backwards, don't you think?
Once it's created, it's copyrighted whether or not the word COPYRIGHT is splattered across the picture or not.
I guess one could say the exact same thing about your avatar. But that is not on topic for this thread.
Somewhat. Weren't you the one who recently trained your monkey to fire one and then videotaped him doing it?
Monkey? I am sure that you are a smart guy too, but I wouldn't exactly call Robert a monkey.
We use a 7" barrel for R&D and destruction tests, but I didn't believe that anyone actually used them.
I guess one could say the exact same thing about your avatar. But that is not on topic for this thread.
Yes, one could say the same thing if they didn't know any better. IM sent.
Kevin- I only call him that because he really doesn't behave well around others - not because of his intelligence.
Some people use 7.5" guns
No idea why - but their usage is different than me
It was my idea to shoot the 7.5 inch upper for extreme testing. Kevin has never seen this upper. It belongs to Matt Pallett. I don't own one.
OK, so the AAC cans and the OPS inc. cans both contact the mounts in more than one place, attach and detach quickly, suffer from minimal POI shift, are about as quiet as each other, are available in several different sizes using the same mount (12th, 14th, and 15th; SCAR-SD, M4-2000(5.56 and 6.8), 7.62SD), and when the proper mount is used, both reflex back ove the barrel. THIS REMINDS ME A LOT OF THE EOTECH VS. AIMPOINT DEBATE:rolleyes:
AAC:
1.Since it has been questioned, I have edited out "Quieter"
2.Has a retention feature to keep the can from spinning off
3.No machining of the barrel necessary
4.Uses a flashhider instead of a brake (I don't want a brake on my SBR ouchy!)
OPS INC:
1.Uses a two piece mount that contacts the barrel in two different places
2.Allows for a slightly shorter OAL when compared to the AAC SOPMOD mounts
3.Can be shot wet for better suppression(can AAC?)
THIS IS JUST A SYNOPSIS OF WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD IN THIS THREAD THAT HASN'T YET BEEN SCRUTINIZED OR QUESTIONED, MY INTENT ISN'T TO START A TROLL THREAD. I'M JUST A RUGULAR GUY THAT WANTS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEIGHBOR'S SILVERADO ISN'T REALLY BETTER THAN MY F150, LOL.
I think that ADCO had it right when he said just buy whichever one you think looks cooler.
Is there a Complete idiots guide to Cans? I am getting confused with all this stuff you all talk about. With so many diffeent cans out there and how they mount and so on. You can see how it can be confusing.
Your not the only one. This stuff is all voodoo magic and witch craft to me.
Pun not intended. :D
Voodoochild
09-20-06, 18:47
No harm Boom.
AAC:
1.Quieter
If someone is going to make statement that model A is quieter than model B, I want to know by how much, and out of a group of people 10 people, how many humans would come to the same conclusion.
Kevin/AAC - You claim your product is quieter, I'd like to know by how much so when others perform the same test I can compare the numbers.
Until then, the "AAC is quieter" is meaningless hype. The kind of hype that sells cans on form 4s because someone will read that and assume “quieter” means a noticeable, audible difference (see post above). Independent tests may show the AAC is quieter, but are we talking 5db or 1db?
I guess that I'll edit my previous post for now, I just figured that since noone challenged this with any hard data that Kevin/AAC was correct. I really am NOT trying to troll, just try to clear up some of the hype that is involved with the different suppressor companies. I wish that someone had made a thraed like this when I first started looking at cans. I was just as confused as Voodoochild and Boom. It seems VERY difficult to get an unbiased opinion on suppressors, and I thought that this site with the large amount of very experienced contributors was mature enough to actually give some real advice to people looking to buy a very expensive peice of gear that they will own for the rest of their lives.
Like I said before, it really seems that the best way to choose a can is by choosing the one that you think looks the most tacti-cool and that you feel the most comfortable with. I chose AAC because my C3 dealer has a very close working relationship with them, and because it is the shortest 7.62x39 can that I could find that would be compatible with 6.8, 5.56, and .300/.221. I haven't made my mind up about the 5.56 dedicated suppressor yet, but I think that I'll wait untill I can see the S2R, it seems to have all the features that I think are cool, and you can tune the POI, but I would like to check out a 12th model too.
If someone is going to make statement that model A is quieter than model B, I want to know by how much, and out of a group of people 10 people, how many humans would come to the same conclusion.
Kevin/AAC - You claim your product is quieter, I'd like to know by how much so when others perform the same test I can compare the numbers.
Until then, the "AAC is quieter" is meaningless hype. The kind of hype that sells cans on form 4s because someone will read that and assume “quieter” means a noticeable, audible difference (see post above). Independent tests may show the AAC is quieter, but are we talking 5db or 1db?
Well it depends on the OPS, Inc. model. Maybe the thing to do is once we have all of the OPS models in inventory is to video tape metering them and/or invite you down. We can help you to understand the Mil-Std metering procedure and how it is performed. Then you can write your own report.
Personally, I believe that generally the two brands are close enough in sound for that not to be the deciding factor. Mounts, durability, etc. should be bigger considerations.
Your not the only one. This stuff is all voodoo magic and witch craft to me.
Pun not intended. :D
If you cant hear them together, but the one with the looks and features you want for your application. It can be that simple :-)
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/canoptions.jpg
To tune the poi shift? Does this mean that the bore of the suppressor is not true to the mount, so that by rotating you are able to let the gas push the bullet one direction or the other? Recuction of recoil tends to influence point of impact. Not sure running the bullet down a non concentric hole is what you are talking about.
Ron
To tune the poi shift? Does this mean that the bore of the suppressor is not true to the mount, so that by rotating you are able to let the gas push the bullet one direction or the other? Recuction of recoil tends to influence point of impact. Not sure running the bullet down a non concentric hole is what you are talking about.
Ron
Ron, I haven't seen it yet, but it appears that the new S2R mount that AAC is working on has 5 different sets of acme threads on it, meaning that your POI shift can be fine tuned by having five different orientations. This is a lot like the 3 lug mounts for a MP5 can, where operators could put their can on in three different rotational orientations, causing a different POI with each. Once the optimal rotation of the can was found, then the operator would normaly put a mark on the can so that he could remember which lug to start on the next time that he mounted the can. Also, it seems that this S2R mount would locate the can back over the barrel 2-31/2" depending on which mount used, a lot like the surefire 5.56FA, tensioning on the back of the silencer mount. It would also have the can retention feature like on the M42000. This mount seems to have all the best features of the best cans out there, which would lead me to believe that AAC is on top of things, listening to it's customers and leading the way with R&D and innovation. If this can, with all the new features is as quiet as the M42000, which Kevin says is the quietest, then could someone give me a good reason that I should go with something else? It seems like there shouldn't be too much of an argument against it as it addresses everyones needs and preferences. I'm not trolling or trying to be a smartass, but this really does seem like it shouldn't have much competition.
It seems like there shouldn't be too much of an argument against it as it addresses everyones needs and preferences. I'm not trolling or trying to be a smartass, but this really does seem like it shouldn't have much competition.
It would appear you have clarity on what suits your needs. Not everyone agrees, nor should they...
I have an M4-2000 because the price was lower when I bought it and I love the mounting system.
Supersonic bullet, loud action noise, etc means I didn't need the quietest can -- but at the time it was #1 or #2 depending on the day.
Ron, I haven't seen it yet, but it appears that the new S2R mount that AAC is working on has 5 different sets of acme threads on it, meaning that your POI shift can be fine tuned by having five different orientations. This is a lot like the 3 lug mounts for a MP5 can, where operators could put their can on in three different rotational orientations, causing a different POI with each. Once the optimal rotation of the can was found, then the operator would normaly put a mark on the can so that he could remember which lug to start on the next time that he mounted the can. Also, it seems that this S2R mount would locate the can back over the barrel 2-31/2" depending on which mount used, a lot like the surefire 5.56FA, tensioning on the back of the silencer mount. It would also have the can retention feature like on the M42000. This mount seems to have all the best features of the best cans out there, which would lead me to believe that AAC is on top of things, listening to it's customers and leading the way with R&D and innovation. If this can, with all the new features is as quiet as the M42000, which Kevin says is the quietest, then could someone give me a good reason that I should go with something else? It seems like there shouldn't be too much of an argument against it as it addresses everyones needs and preferences. I'm not trolling or trying to be a smartass, but this really does seem like it shouldn't have much competition.
I don't understand why you seem to be so concerned that everyone agree with you. If the S2R is the solution for you then wait around for it to materialize and don't worry about everyone else.
Shark- not too many people have been able to play around with both AAC and Ops cans and even less with many different varieties of each. Two I can think of would be Steve from ADCO and Rsilvers of AAC.
To me, they could both be considered biased. If you look at Steve's posts, he holds the Opsinc cans in high regards. I don't think he's biased in the true sense of the word- I think he's used them enough to know which he likes better. I trust his judgement and don't question his statements. He's very respectable, knowlegeable and trustworthy and has helped me on many occasions. I have no reason to doubt anything he says.
That's ALL I'm going to say. Take it for what it's worth. ;)
BTW- I'm speaking from PERSONAL experience with both.
Shark- not too many people have been able to play around with both AAC and Ops cans and even less with many different varieties of each. Two I can think of would be Steve from ADCO and Rsilvers of AAC.
To me, they could both be considered biased. If you look at Steve's posts, he holds the Opsinc cans in high regards. I don't think he's biased in the true sense of the word- I think he's used them enough to know which he likes better. I trust his judgement and don't question his statements. He's very respectable, knowlegeable and trustworthy and has helped me on many occasions. I have no reason to doubt anything he says.
That's ALL I'm going to say. Take it for what it's worth. ;)
BTW- I'm speaking from PERSONAL experience with both.
You're right, only I wasn't trying to be that blunt. The original reason that I started this thread was to hear from people (other than Steve or Robert) that had experience with both cans and maybe had testing numbers as to which was actually quieter (which I had heard was the OPS can) and wanted to verify without having to scroll through 20+ pages of useless banter that this post would have generated on some other sites.
Included in my original post, I also asked if the preference for the OPS can was due to the mounting system, which I think is a personal preference type of thing. All the rest of the posts were saying "the Surefire mount was better because of blah blah blah", "No, the AAC mount blah blah blah", "Oh yeah well the OPS mount blah blah blah". So I did more homework on the different types of mounts and I ran across the S2R mount, which I thought basically combined all of the things that people thought were cool about their preffered can brand into one mounting system. I also posted this to ask Kevin/AAC about the dB rating compared to his M42000 can because I was curious. I'm not questioning Steve Adco, Robert Silvers, or any other knowledgeable people that have posted here. It just seems that the suppressor industry is making leaps and bounds in the technology department, and I thought that people may want to know about an upcoming product that may be their version of a perfect can( I admit that it seems to be for me, so I will say that right now, I am biased too).
Are any of the other companies coming out with improved mounting systems? I know that Jet has come out with a updated mount recently, any others I don't know of***Edit to add the new SF 5.56K as well as the RD cans that let you choose which type of flashider to use, which I think are neat too****. I just think that it's pretty cool to see a company, that sells as many suppressors as AAC does, not be comfortable to just say that their mount is the best and doesn't need improvement. I'm sure that they would make a crapload more money if they didn't go changing and improving equipment and products and just continued to pump out the same old thing, but they would rather spend that money developing better and better products.
Y...and I ran across the S2R mount......I thought that people may want to know about an upcoming product that may be their version of a perfect can
At what price for the new Blackout can? Way above $1000, right? I just can't see dropping my money on a 5.56 can at that price point. I bet some do, but then again it's gonna have to be WAY down the dB scale to get many buyers interest.
At what price for the new Blackout can? Way above $1000, right? I just can't see dropping my money on a 5.56 can at that price point. I bet some do, but then again it's gonna have to be WAY down the dB scale to get many buyers interest.
I believe you're right on the price. $1,195 is the price currently shown on AAC's "blackout" website. Not to mention the potential availability issues.
http://advancedarmament.com/blackout/s2r.asp
At what price for the new Blackout can? Way above $1000, right? I just can't see dropping my money on a 5.56 can at that price point. I bet some do, but then again it's gonna have to be WAY down the dB scale to get many buyers interest.
Yeah, it's MSRP is $1,195 which is a big ouchy in the seat of my pants. That's why I was asking Kevin/AAC if it would be quieter than the M42000, because just like you I need to justify spending that kind of money on a frickin 5.56 can. NOT to get on another topic, but the shortest that I think that I would want to go in 5.56 (based on my own experience working with 10" SAW barrel in Iraq) is about 12.5". So, the S2R as well as the 5.56AR and the OPS 12th cans were what I was looking at from a shortened OAL standpoint. I think that when I go through my dealer that any of the 3 would end up costing me about the same give or take $100, so that helps ease the pain a bit. I guess that I should have stated my intended use in my original post.
I don't understand why you seem to be so concerned that everyone agree with you. If the S2R is the solution for you then wait around for it to materialize and don't worry about everyone else.
Pat, I'm not concerned about everyone being in agreeance with me, I just thought that people like you would want to know about different options based off of your post on the Surefire cans :
"But it is a complete package. I'm taking into account all aspects of the can (the ones I listed plus a few more) and ignoring price because I'm willing to pay for it if it has the rest of the features. If, however, a can is available with all of the features of the Surefire but with a lower price I'd love to know about it."
Honestly, most people over-think these purchases. Most of us buy cans because we want them, perhaps we can even justify them, but we do not need them. However, somewhere along the line of "justifying" we forget we're talking about the firearms industry. You know, the industry where new gear is obscured into obselesence at a rate only eclipsed by the computer industry. Something new is always around the corner. new isn't necessarily better. Thus my recurring statement, all over the internet, "be honest with yourself about your needs".
In the end, I choose a company based on it's principals and principles--that's right, the humans running the show, and their ideals. Sure I narrow the options down by way of spec sheets, and comparisons, just like the next guy, but that isn't the end-all-be-all. It must be working, because I have yet to really regret any firearm gear purchases. But what do I know?;)
Pat, I'm not concerned about everyone being in agreeance with me, I just thought that people like you would want to know about different options based off of your post on the Surefire cans :
"But it is a complete package. I'm taking into account all aspects of the can (the ones I listed plus a few more) and ignoring price because I'm willing to pay for it if it has the rest of the features. If, however, a can is available with all of the features of the Surefire but with a lower price I'd love to know about it."
I'm not pat I'm rob.
I asked a question and then further elaborated with followups. You keep stating your opinion and then jumping around asking everyone why they don't agree with you. there's a difference, a subtle difference but a differnce none the less.
I'm not pat I'm rob.
I asked a question and then further elaborated with followups. You keep stating your opinion and then jumping around asking everyone why they don't agree with you. there's a difference, a subtle difference but a differnce none the less.
Rob,
I think that I've gone out of my way to be VERY respectful to people that have much more experience than me when it comes to suppressors. Yes, I have posted my opinion, and also stated that it was just that, my opinion. Yet you seem to be the only one that is butt-hurt by me asking questions and stating factual observations about mounting systems. Also, you started posting in the thread by badmouthing the owners of AAC. I chose to post this topic here, on this site because I felt that I wouldn't have to deal with the soap opera stuff and we could just discuss things that shooters would actually like to know. I have already said that it seems like you should just get the one that you think looks the coolest, but I thought that people like Boom and Voodochild would like to know as much as possible in a less confusing way which is why I brought up the combined features of the S2R. If this is the wrong place to discuss firearms and accessories, then I will quit posting.
While I do understand that there have been problems between Kevin/AAC, Rsilvers, and others with other sites, I really don't give two flying #@&^s. I just wanted to discuss which cans were better for what reasons, which will always be an opinion driven discussion. However, at the same time, discussions like these should result in two things, otherwise we shoyuldn't even be posting here:
1. Healthy debate and sharing of information, facts, and users opinions.
2. A better understanding of the options and features that are available to the public.
The reason that I would like to debate the S2R further is because of the following:
1. It is one of three two point mounts that are available, which makes this more of an apples to apples comparison when compared to the Ops and Surefire cans.
2. It aslo incorporates features like the MITER system that are totally new to the industry, and I would like to know more about this and whether it is even needed.
3.It is a very competitive design, and usually in any industry the more competitive products are, the faster that better products come to market from the competitors.
4.As it has been stated by more people than just me, the main thing that distinguishes the different types of cans that are out there is basically the mounting systems. Since this is a two point, fast attach, reflexed, and locking can mount, that has a "tune-able" POI shift, I would like to know if another type of mount would be better, and how. AFAIK it has included all of the "mine's better than yours because" features that have become the battle cries of those who prefer one type of can to the other.
If you don't want to discuss this and would rather make pointless comments to me about why I want everyone to agree with me, and why I am so concerned with this, then don't post.
Rob,
I chose to post this topic here, on this site because I felt that I wouldn't have to deal with the soap opera stuff and we could just discuss things that shooters would actually like to know.
I was under the impression you posted this topic because you DID want to discuss the "soap opera stuff."
I could care less about the attachment system as my cans are not for precision purposes, mostly SBR applications and just wanted to know why all the hatred for the AAC cans?
The reason that I would like to debate the S2R further is because of the following:[/U]
Nevermind...
You asked why people wouldn't buy their cans and I replied. I didn't "badmouth" anyone. this is just another example of your overreacting. You seem to be all out of whack with this stuff. You start out saying people "hate" AAC, and seem to be pretty hell bent on defending them. Your posts don't match your claimed intent.
It is obvious that you like AAC and their products (which ones do you own, by the way?). It is obvious that you think that the S2r is going to be the best thing since sliced bread (how and when did you shoot it, by the way?). What I don't understand is why you post things like "Aren't AAC and all their products just the greatest?"
In general your posts come off as rather biased and I'm trying to determine the basis for that bias.
And for the record, you don't have control over what or when I post. Only the moderators of this site do.
This thread has very little life left. In fact, it's on life support right now.
You asked why people wouldn't buy their cans and I replied. I didn't "badmouth" anyone. this is just another example of your overreacting. You seem to be all out of whack with this stuff. You start out saying people "hate" AAC, and seem to be pretty hell bent on defending them. Your posts don't match your claimed intent.
It is obvious that you like AAC and their products (which ones do you own, by the way?). It is obvious that you think that the S2r is going to be the best thing since sliced bread (how and when did you shoot it, by the way?). What I don't understand is why you post things like "Aren't AAC and all their products just the greatest?"
In general your posts come off as rather biased and I'm trying to determine the basis for that bias.
And for the record, you don't have control over what or when I post. Only the moderators of this site do.
"I was under the impression you posted this topic because you DID want to discuss the "soap opera stuff.""-NITROX
OK, look guys, I started this post because I wanted to know from people that have shot both why the OPS cans were becoming so popular. I had heard that the OPS was quieter and wanted to find out if that was true. I said that I didn't care about the attachment system, as I was happy with my AAC's current system. When it was said that the sound quality was all pretty much the same, this topic moved to discussion of the various mounting systems and their individual merits. What I didn't want to discuss was the attitude of ownership, or what they have done on the internet chat rooms, what I did want to discuss was various technical aspects of the different cans, which I know can become a heated debate, but I thought that this would ba a place where it could be discussed intelligently.
Sooooooooooooo, I found some information about an upcoming can that should be out in a few months called the S2R. Is everybody following now? So, if all the cans that have been discussed have basically the same dB rating and none really outperform the other, it really comes down to a mount discussion. If you like the two point mount of the OPS and Surefire cans, the S2R has it. If you like the Surefire can because of the locking mechanism that keeps the can from spinning off, the S2R has it. If you like your can to have a feature to reflex it over the barrel, the S2R has it. It also has features that no other cans have now like the multiple orientations of the mount.
I haven't seen or shot an S2R. I have not seen or shot an OPS can. I personally own an M42000 in 6.8, like I said in a previous post. I DON'T own any 5.56 cans and was looking to find out as much as I could before I bought one.
Now I will be the first person to say (and have said it in my previous posts) that can selection is a personal choice, but can either one of you guys tell me how the Surefire or OPS inc cans are better than this one from a technical or engineering standpoint? I can't think of any unless the OPS or Surefire would be quieter. Right now I am biased to the S2R and will probably buy one when it becomes available, not because I love AAC, but because I would rather have the best of any one design. Right now I am talking to Jet about another suppressor project, and they are not affiliated with AAC in any way that I am aware of.
Mods, feel free to do with this thread as you wish. My intentions of finding new information seem to be in vain. I didn't want to rehash what had already been discussed elsewhere, and certaintly didn't mean for this to come to what it has, drivel.
You're biased toward a product that isn't even available yet, based solely on it's theory of operation and you want to have a discussion about why it is, or is not superior? Are you serious? Look, if you want to know about the upcoming AAC product, call Kevin. But it is silly to think that professionals, or even serious shooters, want to join into some hypothetical debate which can't be settled with facts, only fueled by ignorant assumptions and foolish juxtaposition. I can think of a few forums, though, where you could get a whole slew of folks to bite.:eek:
You're biased toward a product that isn't even available yet, based solely on it's theory of operation and you want to have a discussion about why it is, or is not superior? Are you serious? Look, if you want to know about the upcoming AAC product, call Kevin. But it is silly to think that professionals, or even serious shooters, want to join into some hypothetical debate which can't be settled with facts, only fueled by ignorant assumptions and foolish juxtaposition. I can think of a few forums, though, where you could get a whole slew of folks to bite.:eek:
Yes I was serious, I wanted to talk about the merits of the system, and get people's initial impressions on the design. I thought that someone with more knowledge than I am (K31user, Kevin/AAC, Rsilvers, You, ADCO, and others) could help shine more light on the subject, but to me it looks like all of them have left this thread because it degenerated so quickly into stupid "soap opera stuff". I really did want to know more about these different systems, but I guess that I'll just continue to make feeble attempts at deciphering the engineering myself, or buy all three systems and testing equipment to get my own answers.
It's really a shame to let this thread degrade into this. K31user and Kevin/AAC both initially posted in this thread, and I value the kind of insight and information that each of these guys bring greatly as I would hope you would. After reading my reply back to Ron about the "tunable" orientation, I realize that I should have restated my response in a more respectfull and unbiased way, but it came across in a smartass way that I didn't intend. He had a good point and I have been thinking more about what he said and it makes sense.
Would the OPS can be superior to the S2R in the POI arena because the can mount is a two piece design that would give a better chance for the can to be properly aligned with the bore versus the muzzle mounted only S2R mount? Or does it even matter how true to the bore the bore of the can is? Does reduced recoil effect POI or does the forces of the gas swirling around the baffles? If the bore to bore trueness of the barrel and can would provide the least POI shift, then my opinion would be that the OPS can would be superior in that area and the S2R would just be making up for it's lack of trueness with an overcomplicated mount that would be more difficult to mount correctly under stress. I realize that S2R isn't available for purchase yet and that this is all theory, but does that mean that we can't discuss intelligently the individual merits of each system and suppressor designs in general? I guess that everyone could continue to comment on why they don't like the way that I say things, but I'd rather get back on topic about which can design is superior for what reasonsbecause I want to go ahead and buy one of them already! And I might just buy an OPS now if I can get some technical information regarding POI shift. You see I'm not a brand lover, I'm a superior design lover. I want what I own to be the very best, not because I need it to be, but because I am a guy and that's just the way that I am. And in regards to this comment:
"But it is silly to think that professionals, or even serious shooters, want to join into some hypothetical debate which can't be settled with facts, only fueled by ignorant assumptions and foolish juxtaposition."
I am attempting to become less ignorant about suppressor design and trying to find answers to questions that could be answered by someone who understands physics better than I do. Is is it really that silly to think that professionals or serious shooters want to know more about this and have something to contribute to our little hypothetical debate? I guess that this forum should just be used to sell merchandise to us instead of letting us have a chance to discuss and understand the individual merits of the equipment that is or about to be available to us. Silly me.
It impossible to have a theoretical debate without knowing ones requirments.
What you want may not be what I need -- and as such your supperior design is my "blows dead goats". No one can does all roles well.
Secondly even individual suppressors from the same types can have different performance -- some units cull suppressors for POI shift. I dont mean lemons -- I just mean variance from unit to unit -- and a lot of companies base their data either on their tightest tolerance (for Db red or POI shift) or their avg -- but never on the worst unit that they allow out.
It impossible to have a theoretical debate without knowing ones requirments.
What you want may not be what I need -- and as such your supperior design is my "blows dead goats". No one can does all roles well.
Secondly even individual suppressors from the same types can have different performance -- some units cull suppressors for POI shift. I dont mean lemons -- I just mean variance from unit to unit -- and a lot of companies base their data either on their tightest tolerance (for Db red or POI shift) or their avg -- but never on the worst unit that they allow out.
Wow, is there really that much difference in two cans of the same make? I had no idea, thanks for the info. Is that true pretty much across the board or have some of the companies developed better technology to make their cans to tolerances that would make this more of a non-issue? I remember seeing some photos of what appeared to be a one piece baffle stack instead of "k-baffles" (I believe that's the correct terminology) stacked and welded together, would that type of construction lead to less deviation from one can to another? Or would that type of construction be less desirable from a dB rating standpoint? What type of baffles do OPS, Surefire, or AAC use for their 5.56 silencers, are they all pretty much using the same type of internals?
My requirements for this application are as follows:
It will be put on a 12.5" SS Match barrel to (hopefully) achieve the close to the same velocity as a 14.5" CL M4 barrel.
What I am looking for from this can in order:
1. Sound quality
2. Minimal and repeatable POI shift
3. Durability for full auto fire
4. Minimal length added to the weapon
5. Flash hider in place when suppressor is off
Part of the issue is the bbl as well. Some have not been turned down for the FH in a manner concentric to the bore. Some is the way they are welded - some are the mount - or the FH.
There are a lot of variables involved -- you can minimise them but not remove them.
A certain can manufacturer has a 4 MOA allowance for the spec POI shift from .mil -- but a unit that buys them requires 1MOA or less -- so they cull the cans to find the "better ones".
I've seen several different cans (by different manufacturers) exibit uncharacterisitc perfromance (both good and bad).
What I am looking for from this can in order:
1. Sound quality
2. Minimal and repeatable POI shift
3. Durability for full auto fire
4. Minimal length added to the weapon
5. Flash hider in place when suppressor is off
So there are at least 5 suppressors in the same neighborhood.
Pick the one that looks the best, and buy it.
If the YHM-3100A had been available when I bought the M4-2000, I might have gotten it.
The price seems good for a civilian 5.56.
Shark- it STILL seems you are asking us to give you reasons not to buy the S2R- like you've made up your mind. That's fine but don't pretend that's not happening.
The ops can is accurate and has a small POI shift. You aren't sniping so I'll rule out the POI shift as being most important to you.
OK, to ask very unbiased questions that are simple and require simple answers:
1. Which is quieter? (if this needs further explanation, then which is quieter to the shooters ear)
2. What causes POI shift, the gasses swirling around the baffles, or the reduction of recoil as K31user stated? (knowing this will allow me to determine for myself which mount that I want)
3. What type of internals are used one piece or stacked and welded, and are they manufactured by different or better machinery from one manufacturer to the other?
Thanks for helping, after I know this information I'll quit posting observations and asking for opinions, and be able to better determine for myself which suits me best. Thanks to all who have tried to help me!
1. Which is quieter? (if this needs further explanation, then which is quieter to the shooters ear)
I'll let someone with better experience answer the other two, but this one I can handle.
Having been at a shoot that had an old Gemtech M4-96 and a used M4-2000, I would say the M4-96 was quieter by a hair. In both shooting them, and standing next to them when they were shot.
The SoundTech M4-Wartech tested the quietest from Robert Silver's testing site.
There have been two very outspoken members here, and on TOS, that state a round-up of quality 5.56 suppressors and "blind" hearing samples just shows that each of the quality makers is so close to one another so that metered dB ratings shown in testing may not mean as much as some want you to believe it does.
OK, to ask very unbiased questions that are simple and require simple answers:
1. Which is quieter? (if this needs further explanation, then which is quieter to the shooters ear)
2. What causes POI shift, the gasses swirling around the baffles, or the reduction of recoil as K31user stated? (knowing this will allow me to determine for myself which mount that I want)
3. What type of internals are used one piece or stacked and welded, and are they manufactured by different or better machinery from one manufacturer to the other?
Thanks for helping, after I know this information I'll quit posting observations and asking for opinions, and be able to better determine for myself which suits me best. Thanks to all who have tried to help me!
Great post. Which exact models are you asking to be compared though?
(if you had posted like this to begin with you wouldn't have had all these problems ;) )
Great post. Which exact models are you asking to be compared though?
(if you had posted like this to begin with you wouldn't have had all these problems ;) )
I was inquiring about any 5.56 can, I don't care who makes the damn thing for the last time! These are all questions that I have previously asked, but I got answers like "Get whichever one you think looks the best; or they are all about the same; or better yet don't overthink this purchase."
This is all stuff that I already knew. I knew that I would be happy with any one of the top tier cans, but I wanted to know which ones had better features and why. Sorry if I take a $1,000 or more lifetime purchase a little more serious than you and others think that I should.
I think you might find most of the answers you're looking for already posted on www.silencertests.com.
Here in Michigan we can't own a can or sbr . I see all the tension created over which one is better. Be thankful you can own one . As to which is better for what reason I agree it is a personal choice. When I make a high dollar purchase I seek out dealers where I can physicaly examine similar products in question. Then make my decision. If a person wants to know why one material in a product is better than that in another you will get into metalurgey .Without formal education that is usually beyond most peoples comprehension. Being my profession is blacksmithing ,more of us around than you would think, my job is forging parts for our two onehundred year old narrow guage steam locomotives and rolling stock plus other antique equipment in the park . With the information given on top tier can manufacturers sights you are getting top of the line materials in their products . So as others have said it is personal choice. Mike
K.L. Davis
12-08-06, 23:04
Lots of reading... and to tell the truth I got a little tired, so someone may have said this already?
The problem with "numbers" and the Military Test is that all of that criteria is for hearing conservation... and is by the military's own admission not all that reliable.
The ISO testing is far better, but still is an environmental health issue, vice a tactical consideration. A suppressor can have low numbers, but still "sound" louder to a human than one with slightly higher numbers... add to this that the pressure testing does not consider ground radiation and all of that, and the numbers mean very little in the real world...
As mentioned, most cans are within a few points of each other... my druthers is to screw them on and listen to them being shot -- that said, I like OPS.
Quick detach is sort of mute when the freaking thing is 500 degrees... I know there is an answer in place for that, but I offer that when using that device, it is just as easy to unscrew the OPS, than manipulate some of the other devices?
We have used OPS Inc. cans for years without fail. And knowing the "Rules" against bad mouthing some other company that make cans for M4's I will not continue down that path so as not to upset its "Cheerleaders" even though I will gladly give my ".mil" address and forward emails. What I can say is that they are the best. Our MK 12's still use OPS Inc. cans eventhogh the hand guards are made by "Someone" else. As far as coming loose.... never happened. And I agree with KL in reference to "Quick Detatch" No such thing once you shoot it. However I can take mine off with the supplied Armid/Nomex cover just fine when hot.
Oh here is my FAVORITE quote from some dude at Benning: "We like to take the cans off before we enter a building because the noise scares the people inside"
Obviously never fired a M4 with a can inside an enclosed place with a can 'cause if he did his ears would be ringing from the sonic crack bouncing off the walls.
I'm going to try and get a 14th model to a friend that likes the 12th but hates the "other" can (not allowed to say what, I guess) which they've had problems with. Including a number of them that fell off. More proof that .mil issue isn't always the best.
I'm going to try and get a 14th model to a friend that likes the 12th but hates the "other" can (not allowed to say what, I guess) which they've had problems with. Including a number of them that fell off. More proof that .mil issue isn't always the best.
So far we have been running the 12th Model SPR (issue), 12th Model .308 (on the SASS) and 15th model on our M4s with the provided OPS Inc USGI "Bird Cage" Flash hider. They did make a can with a 15th model rear that had the 12th Model SPR baffels that was SUPER quiet..
Hands down.... BEST CANS!
They did make a can with a 15th model rear that had the 12th Model SPR baffels that was SUPER quiet..
That's probably the 16th model. It is currently in production, just not listed on their web site.
Yeah it is the 16th model.
K.L. Davis
12-12-06, 10:17
Yeah it is the 16th model.
So... yet another thing I must add to the wish list.
Check you IM
Yeah it is the 16th model.
I got my first order of 16ths a couple weeks ago. When they get out in the form 4 world, they will be the best selling OPS can.
Can we seriously not mention certain names? Did I miss something?
If you have firsthand knowledge, you can mention any name you want. Or if you have secondhand knowledge, but can easily demonstrate that what you say is accurate and truthful -- you can post anything about any maker.
What you CAN'T do is take secondhand information, opine about it, hypothesize about it, and contort it to fit some "agenda".
If you choose to hide behind a screenname, and offer sensitive data that you refuse to divulge the source or documentation, your posts to that effect will be deleted, edited or otherwise removed.
In short, there will be no "faceless" bashing by an internet persona.
Did this come about from another thread?
I wasn't testing the waters so I could bash anyone.
There are 2 suppressors in wide spread use by the .mil. From the comments made, and the second hand information I received, I Assuemed they were talking about the "other" one.
I got my first order of 16ths a couple weeks ago. When they get out in the form 4 world, they will be the best selling OPS can.
Somebody is going to have to make me a crib sheet so I can keep track of all these models.:D
Steve already did- complete with prices on his website. How convenient for those with $$$ !!! :D I'll have to wait until the weather warms up and it can actually be used before I buy one. :(
My intention in this thread was certaintly not to bash any company. I started the thread off the wrong way by asking about why there was "hatred" for AAC after using/buying some of their products.
I wanted to know why many of you preffer the OPS brand, if there were any reasons for this prefference that were NOT based off what happened elsewhere on the internet.
I was honestly not trying to troll, but get real feedback from real users. Had I known that this type of thread is comparable to a 1911 vs Glock, AR vs AK, or Aimpoint vs Eotech type thread then I never would have posted it.
I think that this thread died a horrible cruel death with only about a page worth of real usable information. I would still like to know about some technical aspects about some of the top tier cans, but I think those are questions that will never be answered.
I sincerely hope that I haven't created any animosity towards any one company or person on this board. However, having said that, I do like to hear the nitty gritty about certain products and companies, I think that is why many of us utilize this site in particular for information.
If I wanted to hear nothing but glowing reviews about every product on the market with no mention of their shortcomings (yes, all products have shortcomings)........................I would have read 'Guns and Ammo'.
If I wanted to hear a bunch of Chair-borne Ranger jibberish from mall ninjas that shoot less in one year than I do in a weekend, then I would have a plethora of other sights to get that information from.
I hope that M4carbine can still facilitate honest sincere exchange about different products in the industry without worrying if the product in question has been manufactured by one of the site sponsers. This is why I was drawn to the site to begin with.:D
My information is second hand from a guy with a soc.mil address.
He is a serious dude.
Kevin, you should get in touch with this guy.
I'd honestly like to know why the OPS mount is considered a "tension" mount. The part of the can in between the collar and the threads is placed in compression, not tension when tightened.
Just an FYI.
I'd honestly like to know why the OPS mount is considered a "tension" mount. The part of the can in between the collar and the threads is placed in compression, not tension when tightened.
Just an FYI.
Because the mount is under tension, the can is under compression. Thus "tension MOUNT".:D
I would have thought the descriptor in front of "mount" would refer to how the can is mounted (i.e. under tension or compression) and not how the mount is mounted...
Wait a second, you are trying to trick me- the mount IS under compression- at least the collar is. It is pushed up against the step on the barrel.
I guess you could say the Suppressor pushes against the collar and PULLS the brake away from the barrel, but that doesn't mean tension...
How's this for a technical discussion?
Wait a second, you are trying to trick me- the mount IS under compression- at least the collar is. It is pushed up against the step on the barrel.
Unless the "collar" is machined into the barrel, in which case the barrel is part of the mount and under tension from being pushed towards the reciever on the rear of the can and being pushed forward by the threads on the brake. Funny thing is is that you could call the AAC M42000 mount a tension/compression mount too in that it pulls forward on the ACME threads and pushes back on the collar behind the ridges, the main difference being that one is a two piece mount and the other is one.:D
You are nuts now! :p The barrel isn't part of the mount and is in fact the only thing under tension and only between the collar step and the threads for the brake.
Is that your FINAL answer? The barrel is under tension?
My SS barrel is thicker and stronger than that can *I think* and therefore, the can will be placed into compression long before the barrel actually feels any real tension, no?
Yeah, you are absolutely correct, but according to Mr. Newton's 3rd law, the barrel would have force applied to it, thus tensioning, LOL.
Seriously, I was just messing around showing that there are a ton of different types of forces applied all over all types of mounts. I have no idea why they would call it a tension mount instead of a compression mount.:confused:
OK so I'm not the only one. I never got my panties in a wad and don't want you to think I was arguing. I too was pointing out how silly it sounds...
Ron, I haven't seen it yet, but it appears that the new S2R mount that AAC is working on has 5 different sets of acme threads on it, meaning that your POI shift can be fine tuned by having five different orientations. This is a lot like the 3 lug mounts for a MP5 can, where operators could put their can on in three different rotational orientations, causing a different POI with each. Once the optimal rotation of the can was found, then the operator would normaly put a mark on the can so that he could remember which lug to start on the next time that he mounted the can. Also, it seems that this S2R mount would locate the can back over the barrel 2-31/2" depending on which mount used, a lot like the surefire 5.56FA, tensioning on the back of the silencer mount. It would also have the can retention feature like on the M42000. This mount seems to have all the best features of the best cans out there, which would lead me to believe that AAC is on top of things, listening to it's customers and leading the way with R&D and innovation. If this can, with all the new features is as quiet as the M42000, which Kevin says is the quietest, then could someone give me a good reason that I should go with something else? It seems like there shouldn't be too much of an argument against it as it addresses everyones needs and preferences. I'm not trolling or trying to be a smartass, but this really does seem like it shouldn't have much competition.
Interesting thread. Question on the adjustment for POI shift: is this similar to (or licensed from) Browning's BOSS system?
Holy Resurrected Thread!!! :eek:
The new SPR/M4 can is $1050. If you want a lower price can the AAC M4-1000 is just $550 retail and it has a nice feature set.
The new SPR/M4 can is $1050. If you want a lower price can the AAC M4-1000 is just $550 retail and it has a nice feature set.
hi,
perhaps you can help since you design AAR cans: is the variable POI adjustment a license of the Browning BOSS system?
No, it is not like the BOSS system.
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