View Full Version : best sling option
stx.dead.I
08-22-14, 14:11
Am looking to get a good one to two point transitionable sling for my sbr. I have found the Vickers 221 so far and it seems to be getting good reviews, I am just trying to get all the options before I commit to one. Anyone recommend one other than the 221?
BuzzinSATX
08-22-14, 14:18
I like the VTAC padded sling personally.
PaulnPats M-4
08-22-14, 14:24
Didn't know what it was so I looked it up, looks like a good sling, but 80 bucks??? I'm an old Viet Nam vet, USMC and I just use an old M-16 sling on QD swivels 2 bucks at the gun show, if I ever need to get "tactical" I use para cord, just like the old days. Sorry I couldn't help, us old guys are weird.
stx.dead.I
08-22-14, 14:25
I like the VTAC padded sling personally.
When you say VTAC you mean the non 221 sling? isn't the 221 the only one of Vickers that is one/two point?
BuzzinSATX
08-22-14, 14:28
Vikings Tactics (Kyle Lamb's company)
http://www.vikingtactics.com/product-p/vtac-mk2.htm
crosseyedshooter
08-22-14, 14:32
The two most popular slings that get mentioned are VCAS and VTAC. They're not the same but both will accept either a BlueForceGear Burnsed socket or IWC triglide to make it convertible from 2 to single point.
VCAS or VTAC on all of my rifles. All padded versions. Two point sling is your best option in most cases.
dramabeats
08-22-14, 15:00
I have a padded VCAS in Kryptek Typhon, I love it.
sevenhelmet
08-22-14, 15:05
I'm partial to the Magpul M3 sling myself- it can be quickly resized and/or reconfigured to a single-point sling. The VTAC looks nice, but I've never played with one.
crosseyedshooter
08-22-14, 15:10
The BlueForceGear VCAS has better quality webbing than Magpul slings, IMHO. And once you try a padded VCAS, you'll never want anything else!
I've tried the VCAS, VTAC and Ares Armor 2 point sling and prefer the Ares. As far as a single point, I've never run one so I can't help there.
I've tried the VCAS, VTAC and Ares Armor 2 point sling and prefer the Ares.
Same here.
Anyone use the Way Of The Gun sling from Frank Proctor? Likes/dislikes?
As mentioned a bunch above....VCAS Padded is a great option. I have an MS3 VCAS padded and a standard VCAS and prefer the padded option.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j98/jamesbernatchez/Photography/SR-7_zpsa1b9ef41.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/jamesbernatchez/media/Photography/SR-7_zpsa1b9ef41.jpg.html)
I've got 3 VCAS padded slings on 16" rifles and really like them in classes and training. Recently bought a Procter sling for an 11.5" rifle. I like it so far but haven't used it in a class yet. It's pretty easy to use for training.
Anyone use the Way Of The Gun sling from Frank Proctor? Likes/dislikes?
I have one on my AR Sig brace "pistol" because of the ability to strap it to the rear of the brace easily. It is a very simple sling, but I haven't had any issues with it yet so far. It functions just like the VCAS set up, but much less hardware required. I had to put some tape on the front mounting loop to keep it from getting loose, but that took about 10 seconds to fix.
The best sling that I have ever used is the VCAS padded sling. I carry a rifle professionally and have used the same VCAS since 2008 on every rifle I have been issued. I have used VTAC slings in the past, but I have found them to be less user friendly than the VCAS set ups and have the loose end flapping around. I don't see any reason to pick a VTAC over a VCAS that does everything the just as well, but without the possibility of the strap getting caught on something.
Rick
TexanInCali
08-22-14, 18:38
Another vote for the padded VTAC. It's well made and easy to use.
TexanInCali
08-22-14, 18:40
BTW, regardless of sling, this excellent no residue vinyl tape from Battle Systems helps keep thing tidy.
http://www.battlesystemsllc.com/Vinyl_Tape,_Coyote_Brown.html
TexanInCali
08-22-14, 18:52
I've tried the VCAS, VTAC and Ares Armor 2 point sling and prefer the Ares. As far as a single point, I've never run one so I can't help there.
Which model do you mean? Is it one of these?
http://aresarmor.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=tacsling
birdkiller
08-22-14, 19:01
I use a padded VTAC on my rifle with an IWC 2-1 triglide. I mostly only use the 1-point configuration messing around on the range, primarily running the sling in 2PT attached at the far ends. I've used the VTAC and VCAS and feel the padded models with the additional hard wear are the best options as far as quick adjust 2-1 pts go. They are great for rifles that have a bit of weight to them as well, much more comfortable on your neck/shoulder when slung than non-padded models.
I haven't used the proctor sling yet, but am planning on using that for a lightweight build I'm planning and will report later when I've used it.
I'm big fan of the WOTG Proctor sling http://www.wayofthegun.us/store/ it's only $30 if price is an issue, but this is not just some cheap sling.
I've tried the VCAS, VTAC and Ares Armor 2 point sling and prefer the Ares.
Why's that?
Which model do you mean? Is it one of these?
http://aresarmor.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=tacsling
I have the Husky Amentum Slider and the Husky MK II EWS. The MK II EWS upgrades the hardware to all metal instead of the polymer on the Amentum. The slider on the MK II also allows for addition tightening on the sling over the Amentum. The padding in the MK II is also an improvement over the Amentum. Despite that, I'm not sure if the MK II is worth the added costs over the Amentum. I'm not sure what the "LR" model adds over the regular MK II to justify the additional cost.
Ares has videos at the bottom of page to demonstrate how they work.
Why's that?
From my favorite to least favorite, I'd rate the Ares 1st, the VCAS as very, very close second and the VTAC dead last.
For me, the Ares is the fastest and simplest design to use. I was concerned at first about the large loop sewn to the buckle snagging on gear, but that has been a nonissue and I actually prefer it to the sewn pull tab on the VCAS. The Ares can also be had for less than the VCAS if you buy it when they have one of their frequent sales.
The VCAS has the highest quality webbing, but the overly large loop mentioned earlier on the Ares is easier for me to manipulate quickly over the pull type tab on the VCAS. The Ares MK II slider adds an addition pinch-type adjustment to tighten the sling that sometimes comes in handy. Its hard to describe, watch the Ares video. The Ares Amentum, however, does not have this feature. If you want all-metal hardware on the VCAS it gets pretty expensive.
The VTAC just wasn't for me. The thin webbing isn't as quality as the others and the adjustment buckle takes lots of practice to proficient with. The tiny paracord-like pull tab and push-to-release buckle had a steeper learning curve for me than the other two.
I've ran the VTAC, Ares Amentum, Emdom Gunslinger, MS2, MS3, and still prefer the VCAS Padded QD unit. The Ares works really well, but for me the VCAS is even simpler, and the old NVBGear sales on the padded QD flavor had me get one for all of my rifles - at this point the only sling I'm unhappy with is the VCAS Cobra for my wife's rifle - a bit unnecessarily heavy, I'd rather have yet another VCAS QDP.
TexanInCali
08-22-14, 21:33
I have the Husky Amentum Slider and the Husky MK II EWS.
Thanks. They do look interesting, and at those prices, seem worth trying out.
Thanks for the info.
I use the BFG VCAS, the original one. I like the VTAC but it is made out of nylon. I like the Ducked cotton VCAS, it will not melt when a hot barrel hits it. I have seen too many nylon slings melt through on contact with a barrel and saw the rifle take a nose dive into the dirt......Cotton All the way. Same with my pants.....NO NYLON!
Thanks. They do look interesting, and at those prices, seem worth trying out.
Thanks for the info.
Sure, and I forgot to add, The webbing on the MK II is a 1 1/4 inch and the Amentum is a 1 inch. The MKII webbing is higher quality than the Amentum, but I don't think it is as quality as the VCAS. I'm not certain, but I think the Amentum is nylon and the MK II is ducked cotton or a cotton-nylon blend like docsherm mentions above.
Finally, the VCAS I had was the unpadded version where as the Ares and VTAC I have are padded so I can't give you an opinion there.
wildcard600
08-22-14, 22:23
I use the BFG VCAS, the original one. I like the VTAC but it is made out of nylon. I like the Ducked cotton VCAS, it will not melt when a hot barrel hits it. I have seen too many nylon slings melt through on contact with a barrel and saw the rifle take a nose dive into the dirt......Cotton All the way. Same with my pants.....NO NYLON!
This is very good advice and something I have not thought of before. On the range nylon is probably a non issue but in a situation where the shit starts raining I could easily see this happen.
I have been in the market for a sling solution and you have definitely steered me in a direction I would not otherwise be headed.
thanks.
.The VCAS for me also, I've tried several others but always come back to VCAS. I like the cotton webbing over stiff nylon any day.
wildcard600
08-22-14, 22:48
Does anyone know if the current offerings from Blue Force Gear VCAS are cotton or nylon ? The site only seems to describe them as CORDURA, which I believe is available in cotton, but is usually associated with nylon in my experience.
Any help is appreciated.
Custom BFG Vickers FDE padded sling with a Magpul MS1 sling slider assembly (super smooth adjustment with no creep), a Magpul Paraclip on the front (*I* can manipulate it easier/faster than a push button QD swivel when its cold out and with gloves on) and a MS1™ MS3-QD™ Adapter on the rear, for a single point option. Most of the time I prefer to use the stocks right side QD mount location.
SpeedRacer
08-22-14, 23:51
I'm a big fan of the Emdom Gunslinger. Sort of a "best of both worlds" smack dab between the VCAS and VTAC. Second choice is the VTAC Padded Enhanced sling.
Hard to beat a padded VCAS.
3ACR_Scout
08-23-14, 07:29
As mentioned a bunch above....VCAS Padded is a great option. I have an MS3 VCAS padded and a standard VCAS and prefer the padded option.
This may not matter for most people, but I use both versions depending on whether I'm at work wearing body armor or at home / at the range without. I love the padded version but found that the seams at the ends of the padding would sometimes catch a little bit on my armor. It was only a minor annoyance, but I picked up a non-padded sling to use in the field and on deployments. With the QDs, it's easy to swap them out as needed.
Dave
This may not matter for most people, but I use both versions depending on whether I'm at work wearing body armor or at home / at the range without. I love the padded version but found that the seams at the ends of the padding would sometimes catch a little bit on my armor. It was only a minor annoyance, but I picked up a non-padded sling to use in the field and on deployments. With the QDs, it's easy to swap them out as needed.
Dave
I went with the non padded version on my work gun because I figured with body armor/kit I wouldn't mind, as my previous sling had slightly wider webbing. Right now I have a padded version on the way because even with armor I think I'd appreciate the padding. I'll keep that in mind on if it hangs up on my gear.
The VCAS is nylon, not cotton.
3ACR_Scout
08-23-14, 13:07
I'll keep that in mind on if it hangs up on my gear.
Like I said, it was pretty minor, but as I was adjusting my gear or handling my M4, I would occasionally feel it catch on the back of my vest, and it started to bug me, so I switched to the non-padded version and found it to be more comfortable. With the big IOTVs that we wear, the padding is unnoticeable anyway.
Dave
malstew123
08-23-14, 15:31
I vote for the VCAS or MS3. My issued m4 has the MS3 as does one of my AR's. I have the padded VCAS on the other rifle. When wearing armor I dont need the padding, but when not wearing it I definitely prefer it.
wildcard600
08-23-14, 15:32
The VCAS is nylon, not cotton.
gotcha. thanks for the clarification.
After searching on here I opted for padded VCAS and they are great. For even more adjustability I use QD sling swivels and have multiple attachment point options on the rifle(s).
After searching on here I opted for padded VCAS and they are great. For even more adjustability I use QD sling swivels and have multiple attachment point options on the rifle(s).
Excellent choice. That's my favorite and the one that works best for me as well.
MSparks909
08-23-14, 18:44
Have a padded VCAS/QD swivels on my current rifle. Going with Proctor's sling for my LW build.
sig chaser
08-25-14, 11:40
VCAS on all of my rifles now. They are simple, easy to use and comfortable enough for all day wear.
The VCAS is nylon, not cotton.
Is that the new ones? When did they change?
I've used all sort of sling, and will echo the sentiments of some a few posters in this thread:
1 - Ares Husky
2 - VCAS
3 - VTAC
I run the Ares Husky now on all my setups.
stx.dead.I
08-25-14, 18:57
So can the VCAS be converted from two to one point? If so what's the diff between the VCAS and the 221?
So can the VCAS be converted from two to one point? If so what's the diff between the VCAS and the 221?
I use this on my VCAS to make it a 2 to 1 point sling:
http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/2-to-1-point-split-bar-triglide-1-25-convertible-qd-sling-adaptor/
It works great.
anyone have any experience with the wayofthegun sling, designed by frank proctor?
i feel like i've wanted to try one recently because the hardwareless front mounting clears up the handguard.
If you haven't messed with the new MS1 based sling series, you should check it out. Solves a lot of issues, works extremely well. It's nothing like the previous MS3/MS3QD/MS4 as far as how it works. Now, all Magpul slings are based on the MS1 slider, and the new MS3/MS3QD/MS4 Gen 2 variants are all based on the MS1 slider and functionality. You can get the MS1 as a dedicated 2-point without attachments for under $35. You can get the "pigtail" adapters to change it to MS3/MS3QD/MS4, just run it as a straight 2pt, or buy it as the GEN2 MS3, etc., with all connectors and adapters. Tested to 10k cycles with grit, dynamic and static load testing, wet/dry, all that jazz. Smooth adjusting, stays put, no tails to get in the way, 100% US made in Black, Coyote, Gray, OD Green IR compliant high durability weave 1-1/4" tubular nylon.
St.Michael
08-26-14, 13:49
I'm still rolling a MS3 sling. It works I like it. Looking at the VCAS though for a bit of a change. Is there that much of a difference in comfort?
anyone have any experience with the wayofthegun sling, designed by frank proctor?
i feel like i've wanted to try one recently because the hardwareless front mounting clears up the handguard.
I do.
It's a great minimalist sling for light weight builds.
OP:
What I use is the Proctor WOTG sling for <8.5lb rifles.
VTAC padded for 8.5lb< rifles.
Both attached a far fore and aft as possible using paracord. AKA proctor style.
Love both equally but differently.
Haven't tried a BFG VCAS yet, but plan on putting one on the KISS BCM I'm working on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dist. Expert 26
08-26-14, 15:18
I've always been partial to the VTAC padded sling. Mine is 6 years old and is still going strong. I used to run it as far forward and aft as possible, but lately I've been running the forward attachment point close to the receiver and I'm really liking it.
VCAS works best for me. The VTAC has an excess material problem for me. My VCAS is padded and has the sewn-in QD loops which works best IMHO. I have tried the Magpul slings over the years and I find them uncomfortable.
http://SSEquine.net/sbrslings2.jpg
HMAC, as of Dec of last year, all of the slings have changed drastically. If you didn't like them before, you may want to at least revisit it. If you liked them before, you'll likely love them now.
stx.dead.I
08-26-14, 16:38
HMAC, as of Dec of last year, all of the slings have changed drastically. If you didn't like them before, you may want to at least revisit it. If you liked them before, you'll likely love them now.
What all has changed with them?
HMAC, as of Dec of last year, all of the slings have changed drastically. If you didn't like them before, you may want to at least revisit it. If you liked them before, you'll likely love them now.
Sounds like they're worth a look.
Doc Safari
08-26-14, 17:39
I was using the Vickers VCAS sling (the original with the quick release), but I find it snags too readily in the molle straps of my FLC vest.
I suspect people are going to tell me "ditch the FLC vest", but I like its modularity and the fact that it's easily customizable.
Right now I'm just using the plain Jane black silent sling and if I need to do more than just carry the weapon I take it off my shoulder completely.
I would like a better solution.
I have it on an 11.5" with KMR build and really like it so far. I haven't run it through a class yet but like running it in drills.
anyone have any experience with the wayofthegun sling, designed by frank proctor?
i feel like i've wanted to try one recently because the hardwareless front mounting clears up the handguard.
What all has changed with them?
The whole slider mechanism, direction of adjustment, and no more adjuster loop--all in the slider. It's slick.
Berserkr556
08-26-14, 21:55
Anyone use the Way Of The Gun sling from Frank Proctor? Likes/dislikes?
I use a Proctor (WOTG) sling and like it better than the VCAS,VTAC & Magpul slings. I have a couple VCAS,VTAC & Magpul slings on different ARs and they're quality slings but after using the WOTG sling I'm going to change out my other sling for Proctor slings. So far I haven't found anything to dislike about the WOTG sling.
I use a Proctor (WOTG) sling and like it better than the VCAS,VTAC & Magpul slings. I have a couple VCAS,VTAC & Magpul slings on different ARs and they're quality slings but after using the WOTG sling I'm going to change out my other sling for Proctor slings. So far I haven't found anything to dislike about the WOTG sling.
I agree with you Berserk, sometimes simplicity without all of the gadgets is best. I have been pleased with mine as well.
ramairthree
08-27-14, 00:19
Didn't know what it was so I looked it up, looks like a good sling, but 80 bucks??? I'm an old Viet Nam vet, USMC and I just use an old M-16 sling on QD swivels 2 bucks at the gun show, if I ever need to get "tactical" I use para cord, just like the old days. Sorry I couldn't help, us old guys are weird.
You damn kids with your nylon and QDs. You should be using leather.
Just kidding.
Did the various issue M16, M60 slings, then jungle attachment, from 80s to mid 90s.
Then went through various single point, triple point, etc for about ten years.
Best way to go is a rapid adjust 2 point. Been using the VTACs about ten years, works for me.
RioGrandeGreen
08-27-14, 22:32
Today, I took a Frank Proctor WOTG shotgun training -TD2- and I shot OFF as in cut in half the VTAC sling attached to the end of the mag tube on a sling swivel off a REM 870. While doing weapons manipulations the vtac sling got caught/wrapped up in the muzzle/front sight post and blam!! The metal part of the sling flew back and hit my finger and went by the side of my head (Wear eye and ear pro always, it could of got nasty) Relevant post flashback!
Anyway, Mr. Proctor was running one of his slings on an 870 and it looked pretty simple and easy to use. I did not have time to ask him too many questions about it, but it looked simple and easy to use. Anybody run one on an 870? I would imagine they would be good on a lightweight M4 build.
I own a padded and regular VCAS, Ares huskey, and issued VTAC. I prefer the VCAS and Ares Armor.
BTW- Way of The Gun is highly recommended:)
I am a huge fan of VCAS slings and Magpul, however a new option was presented to me that I have been running lately. Savvy Sniper slings. They are great, I just cannot say enough good about them. If you order direct, they will ask for your measurements and custom size it for you. I got mine with the extra hardware with a mount n slot 2-1 point attachment and cobra buckle. I would absolutely give them a look. A buddy let me try his while we were at the range going through some drills, I liked it so much that as soon as I came home I ordered up. I still love my Magpul/ VCAS slings but it's always nice to have options and for the time being I will be running the SS sling.
http://www.savvysniper.com
Here is a pic of the sling
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/IMG_1959_zps2223aa66.jpg
The whole slider mechanism, direction of adjustment, and no more adjuster loop--all in the slider. It's slick.
I like my new MS4 QD gen 2. Any chanced of a padded version?
sig chaser
09-08-14, 21:30
I could be wrong but I thought I just read somewhere about savy sniper violating patents because of their slings.
I just outfitted my Ak and Ar with Proctor slings. I definitely like the simplicity and the price.
jpgm
The VTAC slings are great if you dont mind the extra hardware needed to attatch them. I have them on a few guns but I just got the proctor sling and am going to use it in a class in a few weeks. So far I really like the proctor sling it is very well made.
recon562001
09-08-14, 22:07
I use the VTAC on all my work and personel rifles. One has been to Afghanistan a couple of times and is still going strong.
After using VCAS extensively and trying VTAC, I feel that the new Magpul MS1 sling is best for me. It's adjustment mechanism is similar to VCAS, but it feels much lower profile/bulk and has fewer things hanging off of it. I also have a VTAC "Sniper" sling and feel that it has too much going and is too heavy. While padded slings are nice, I used the new MS1 on Steyr AUG during a 2 day class and didn't feel any issues.
I have 2 vikings tactics padded 2 points, a blue force gear padded 2 point, and a magpul (no padding option) ms4 gen2. Each one sits on a different rifle, and I like them all. Each is easily adjustable, and comfortable enough for me. If I had to choose just one, I would probably go with the magpul ms4. It seems to have the widest range of adjustability when tightening up or adding slack to the sling, and I like having the option to convert to single point, although I rarely use it in single point mode. All are well built, and should serve you well. I am looking to check out the proctor sling, as it uses no hardware for attachment to the rifle, and therefore saves a bit of weight. There are some great sling options to choose from nowadays.
dreamcrusher8307
09-08-14, 23:46
Anyone else running Gear Sector 2 points?
I haven't had a chance to put the one I've got through any serious use yet, and I'm wondering if there's a reason they haven't popped up in this thread yet.
I was using the Vickers VCAS sling (the original with the quick release), but I find it snags too readily in the molle straps of my FLC vest.
I have a VTAC and VCAS. The VTAC has a lot of extra material and a lot of 100MPH tape keeping the loose ends out of the way. My preference for the VCAS relates to the ability to get it with sewn-in QD loops. No snagging, much less cumbersome sling.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/vickers-push-button-slings.html
http://www.blueforcegear.com/image/cache/data/VCAS-PB/VCAS-PB/vcas-pb_Cyote-Brown-425x283.jpg
I have a VTAC and VCAS. The VTAC has a lot of extra material and a lot of 100MPH tape keeping the loose ends out of the way. My preference for the VTAC relates to the ability to get it with sewn-in QD loops. No snagging, much less cumbersome sling.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/vickers-push-button-slings.html
http://www.blueforcegear.com/image/cache/data/VCAS-PB/VCAS-PB/vcas-pb_Cyote-Brown-425x283.jpg
That's a VCAS...
I've modified my VCAS as I love the wide padding and quick adjustment.
I liked the cord attachments if the Frank Proctor slings and the clean mostly buckle free design.
My VCAS now wears paracord loops at the ends and has been sewn to get rid if the 5 buckles.
I now have a very useable, clean, and tangle free sling.
That's a VCAS...
Yes. Fixed my original misstatement.
.
stx.dead.I
09-09-14, 13:37
I've been really thinking hard on the VCAS 221 sling
I have a VTAC and VCAS. The VTAC has a lot of extra material and a lot of 100MPH tape keeping the loose ends out of the way. My preference for the VCAS relates to the ability to get it with sewn-in QD loops. No snagging, much less cumbersome sling.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/vickers-push-button-slings.html
http://www.blueforcegear.com/image/cache/data/VCAS-PB/VCAS-PB/vcas-pb_Cyote-Brown-425x283.jpg
This might be my next sling if magpul doesn't come out with a padded MS4. The QD is a must for me. I really like the 2 to 1 point setup of the MS4 but padded would sure be nice.
Averageman
09-10-14, 06:27
I use this on my VCAS to make it a 2 to 1 point sling:
http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/2-to-1-point-split-bar-triglide-1-25-convertible-qd-sling-adaptor/
It works great.
Thats a great idea, I'm really surprised I haven't seen that before.
Thanks
Same here. Yep, same thing for me tho I did put the IWC tri glide on it just in case I wanted to go single point. I just like the loop on the Ares and the feel of the material better. Also I prefer padded on any of them.
The vickers 221, no pad and I love it.
I'm still using a padded VTAC .
I also prefer the front QD to be at the beginning of the
rail close to the receiver to keep the sling away
from my support arm .
I've noticed that a lot of people have their front attachment point
much further forward . I never really got why .
I like it to be out of the way of whatever the support arm
needs to do .
Berserkr556
09-13-14, 14:44
I'm still using a padded VTAC .
I also prefer the front QD to be at the beginning of the
rail close to the receiver to keep the sling away
from my support arm .
I've noticed that a lot of people have their front attachment point
much further forward . I never really got why .
I like it to be out of the way of whatever the support arm
needs to do .
Never mind the video won't embed.
If you watch the youtube video Way Of The Gun (WOTG) Gun Sling by SuperSetCA Frank explains why the front attachment point for the sling is better.
birdkiller
09-13-14, 15:11
I'm still using a padded VTAC .
I also prefer the front QD to be at the beginning of the
rail close to the receiver to keep the sling away
from my support arm .
I've noticed that a lot of people have their front attachment point
much further forward . I never really got why .
I like it to be out of the way of whatever the support arm
needs to do .
I have my sling setup so I can run it any way I want, but have been running it recently at the furthest two points, like you mentioned.
Here is what's coming to mind that I've found on running it like this:
1) Stability when slung: When I sling my rifle, having it at the two ends gives me the most stability keeping it from flopping around. If I am storing it slung, I can tighten it down, tight, to my body and it isn't going to be moving anywhere.
2) Support against myself: With my sling out front I can use it for support by tightening it down wrapping my arm through it to increase stability at longer ranges, or when proned out cinch it down to have the same affect.
3) Support against objects: I can wrap the sling around my hand to help brace into a barricade like how Frank Proctor teaches.
4) Transition to back: I can cinch it up a bit, and just throw my rifle over my shoulder when doing things that don't involve me shooting. Frank Proctor and Pat McNamara both utilize/teach this application.
I have never had the sling get in the way of my support arm while running it further out, if anything it has been an enabler being out there. Something interesting, is that the guys I see who recommend having it further out, Pat McNamara, Frank Proctor, Kyle Lamb, and Mike Pannone were all Army Special Forces, Delta, or both.
Birdkiller is on the right track. We teach attaching the sling forward and rearward (near the front sight and on the rear of the buttstock) as it gives the most stability while carrying and shooting. Most real users carry the carbine far more than they shoot it. We also went one step farther years ago by advocating that the rear be mounted on the outside, rather than the side next to the body. This gives even greater security while carrying and eliminates choking when transitioning from strong to support side by loosening the sling. This technique makes the 2 point very versatile as it then transitions almost as fast as a 1 point.
There is only one advantage to a front mount near the upper, and that is easier transitioning from strong to support side when your sling lacks sufficient quick adjustment range. If your 2 point sling lacks this, I suggest getting one that has longer quick adjustment.
birdkiller
09-13-14, 17:14
We also went one step farther years ago by advocating that the rear be mounted on the outside... This technique makes the 2 point very versatile as it then transitions almost as fast as a 1 point.
I've been doing that regardless of the front location for a couple years now after my old boss showed it to me. It's amazing the difference it makes. In the bit of time I've run a two point, I prefer transitioning with a two point because its just a direct transition, no need to go over the sling with the stock. Only disadvantage I've seen to sling all the way out/two points in general, is it's a bit harder to go high port while fully in the sling than a single point.
stx.dead.I
09-13-14, 17:26
Just ordered the padded 221 with red point!
Great post.
Birdkiller is on the right track. We teach attaching the sling forward and rearward (near the front sight and on the rear of the buttstock) as it gives the most stability while carrying and shooting. Most real users carry the carbine far more than they shoot it. We also went one step farther years ago by advocating that the rear be mounted on the outside, rather than the side next to the body. This gives even greater security while carrying and eliminates choking when transitioning from strong to support side by loosening the sling. This technique makes the 2 point very versatile as it then transitions almost as fast as a 1 point.
There is only one advantage to a front mount near the upper, and that is easier transitioning from strong to support side when your sling lacks sufficient quick adjustment range. If your 2 point sling lacks this, I suggest getting one that has longer quick adjustment.
Never mind the video won't embed. Man it would be great to be able to delete our own posts.
If you watch the youtube video Way Of The Gun (WOTG) Gun Sling by SuperSetCA Frank explains why the front attachment point for the sling is better.
Watched the video . I understand his viewpoint .
I'll have to give it a try once I've switched to a new rail .
Thanks for the vid recommendation .
A picture is worth a thousand words and a video
contains a LOT of pictures .
Watched the video . I understand his viewpoint .
I'll have to give it a try once I've switched to a new rail .
Thanks for the vid recommendation .
A picture is worth a thousand words and a video
contains a LOT of pictures .
Agreed.
I'm tempted to order one of those slings right now, it seems rather versatile esp with that attachment system. Not having loose material hanging off to tape down would be nice...and I may even have to try the two farthest points attachment method again, that on-back stowage looked really handy.
This is a cross post from the AR pistol forum: is it possible/plausible to attach the front end of a VTAC to the angled portion of the Magpul AFG? I have a Samson Evo 9" rail on a 10.5" barrel. I can get a Samson QD mount, of course, but if I don't have to buy another piece of hardware to mount the sling, so much the better.
Is there a name for the metal piece that connects the sling to the 550 cord?
Never change, M4C... Ive been on the DIY bandwagon for years, but its fairly lonely here. Dont really understand why.
Most used sling: Type III 55301 webbing, double-sided solution-dyed Kryptek Nomad, ITW steel oval slides, 1" steel ring, 1" ITW MASH Hooks, burned ends. There are no plastic components in this sling. There are no moving parts in this sling. The attachments cannot fail due to twisting. It cost around half of what any sling listed in this thread cost and that included much more webbing for other projects. It took about ten minutes to make using trauma shears, a lighter and half a beer. There are downsides: It cannot be rapidly adjusted. This is ideal for my carrying/shooting style, but I guess you could add whatever hardware you want to yours... After years of experimenting with various triglides and Cobra buckles and quick release shackles and crazy doodads, I find this simplicity is best. For me, at least. My 0.02. I may replace the ring down the road with a milled, Cerakoted Ti component.
28549
Never change, M4C... Ive been on the DIY bandwagon for years, but its fairly lonely here. Dont really understand why.
Most used sling: Type III 55301 webbing, double-sided solution-dyed Kryptek Nomad, ITW steel oval slides, 1" steel ring, 1" ITW MASH Hooks, burned ends. There are no plastic components in this sling. There are no moving parts in this sling. The attachments cannot fail due to twisting. It cost around half of what any sling listed in this thread cost and that included much more webbing for other projects. It took about ten minutes to make using trauma shears, a lighter and half a beer. There are downsides: It cannot be rapidly adjusted. This is ideal for my carrying/shooting style, but I guess you could add whatever hardware you want to yours... After years of experimenting with various triglides and Cobra buckles and quick release shackles and crazy doodads, I find this simplicity is best. For me, at least. My 0.02. I may replace the ring down the road with a milled, Cerakoted Ti component.
28549
looks good
Does anyone have any experience with the S.O. Tech Survival sling? I'm curious about how much length adjustment it has.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRaJkHteYRg
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=16345
brushy bill
07-24-17, 21:56
Good sling option for not a lot of money: https://www.redi-mag.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=11
I have a Troy padded sling. Love it.
I have a VTAC padded and Magpul MS1 with QD's and without. Also have Frank Proctor's WOTG on one of my carbines and really like it. It is by far the lightest and simplistic IMHO. It is also the cheapest at only $29. After a lot of use though the 550 loops can start to fray while wrapped around the sharp edges of quad rails, but in three years I haven't broke one.
The VTAC really is rather large and complex compared to the simplicity of the other two. There is a lot going on there but it does work really well and is the most comfortable with heavier rifles. The heavy metal hardware will scratch the finish on your receivers over time though but it doesn't bother me.
The MS1 I use with QD's and it is built very well, really thicker and wider than the non-padded parts of the VTAC. The quick adjust slider is much larger than the WOTG. It's probably my new favorite. Magpul makes quality stuff.
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Well this is weird. I find my setup can be tighter/more secure,yet allow greater range of motion hooked up to the qd near the barrel nut.
1 when tight, its held higher and away from my legs
2 I can run it around the neck when loose.
3 I can sling it on my back quickly from either position. It ends up muzzle down so flopping is a non issue.
Whenever I try running it up front, it's always in the way.
I do use the qd to hook it up front for shots at distance.
Anyone else experience this or am I doing it wrong?
Edit, that's with my 14.5". My 11.5" pistol handles better at the end of the carbine hand guard.
I'm interested to know how many people run their forward sling attachments (when running 2-point sling options) up near the barrel nut or out close to the end of the hand guard. Experiences? Pros and Cons of each?
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theorangecat
08-13-17, 05:57
Well this is weird. I find my setup can be tighter/more secure,yet allow greater range of motion hooked up to the qd near the barrel but.
1 when tight, its held higher and away from my legs
2 I can run it around the neck when loose.
3 I can sling it on my back quickly from either position. It ends up muzzle down so flopping is a non issue.
Whenever I try running it up front, it's always in the way.
I do use the qd to hook it up front for shots at distance.
Anyone else experience this or am I doing it wrong?
Edit, that's with my 14.5". My 11.5" pistol handles better at the end of the carbine hand guard.
Those observations are pretty close to mine (disclaimer: I have no carbines with barrels shorter than 16").
toc
I'm interested to know how many people run their forward sling attachments (when running 2-point sling options) up near the barrel nut or out close to the end of the hand guard. Experiences? Pros and Cons of each?
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My rifle slings are attached just forward of the barrel nut. Maybe 2-3" forward. The rear is attached to the stock.
It's worked well enough for what I use it for. Not sure if it's the best way though.
I run mine all the way out to the end of the handguard and the stock, similar to how Pat McNamara runs it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGNUxv9m9nI.
To me, it provides a more stable platform when I need to quickly flip it to my back.
I run mine all the way out to the end of the handguard and the stock, similar to how Pat McNamara runs it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGNUxv9m9nI.
To me, it provides a more stable platform when I need to quickly flip it to my back.That's how I run mine too, but I've never ran it closer in towards the receiver so I don't know if im missing anything. I like Pat-nasty's take.
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My rifle slings are attached just forward of the barrel nut. Maybe 2-3" forward. The rear is attached to the stock.
It's worked well enough for what I use it for. Not sure if it's the best way though.Have you by any chance ran the attachment further out before? Just wondering if you had tried both ways and settled on the closer in method. I'm open to either, just looking for data.
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Have you by any chance ran the attachment further out before? Just wondering if you had tried both ways and settled on the closer in method. I'm open to either, just looking for data.
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I have not gone further out.
My rifles have magpul hand guards and surefire lights in IWC mounts. I thought that attaching the sling closer to the barrel nut might help prevent the possibility of the sling interfering with use of the wml on my particular set up.
Perhaps the possible interference is theoretical only. Anyhow, that's how I settled on the attachment point on my hand guards.
As a reference, Both attachment points are in the slots closest to the receiver (most rearward slots on magpul handguards) on my handguards. One is a carbine, the other a mid length.
I have not gone further out.
My rifles have magpul hand guards and surefire lights in IWC mounts. I thought that attaching the sling closer to the barrel nut might help prevent the possibility of the sling interfering with use of the wml on my particular set up.
Perhaps the possible interference is theoretical only. Anyhow, that's how I settled on the attachment point on my hand guards.
As a reference, Both attachment points are in the slots closest to the receiver (most rearward slots on magpul handguards) on my handguards. One is a carbine, the other a mid length.Good feedback, Thanks!
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IMO regardless of how far out you run the forward attachment, you need a sling that can quickly switch to being 1 point. When I run carbine classes I'm almost always 1 point now because we are forced to shoot ambi. As long as you can quickly transition, I think this is mostly personal preference.
IMO regardless of how far out you run the forward attachment, you need a sling that can quickly switch to being 1 point. When I run carbine classes I'm almost always 1 point now because we are forced to shoot ambi. As long as you can quickly transition, I think this is mostly personal preference.
Have you watched this video? Watch his hand work as he transitions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGh-tZtKKA
I can't see how running a two-point convertible, then converting to one point is quicker than transitioning with a properly adjusted two point. And after you've converted you've got to convert back to two point in order to do anything with your rifle other than let it dangle with a magnetic attraction for your man parts or the muzzle to mud.
It agree it is personal preference, at one point in time I swore that I'd never us anything but a 3-point. I learned.
Have you watched this video? Watch his hand work as he transitions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoGh-tZtKKA
I can't see how running a two-point convertible, then converting to one point is quicker than transitioning with a properly adjusted two point. And after you've converted you've got to convert back to two point in order to do anything with your rifle other than let it dangle with a magnetic attraction for your man parts or the muzzle to mud.
It agree it is personal preference, at one point in time I swore that I'd never us anything but a 3-point. I learned.
Yes I have seen people use a 2 point with that technique. For me, I just prefer to run as 1 point unless I am climbing or in some situation where a 1 point is not as advantageous. As usual, the operator's skill level is usually more important than the rifle or using 1 vs. 2 point.
I have a vcas and a vtac and currently use them both with no plans to replace either. The vcas was my first 2 point I picked up in 2008. I didnt quite like it first. It seemed stiff and adjustment a tad jerky. After quite a bit of use the webbing softened up a bit it became quite comfortable and the adjustment smooth.
During the time I was dissatisfied with the vcas I was given a vtac by a marine buddy and I really liked its adjustment my only complaint being the narrow webbing on my unarmored carcass. The loose long running end didnt bother me and didnt hang up on anything though it is certainly possible. When the padded vtac mkII came out I quickly bought one and really liked it. The free running end now had a velcro closure to secure it along the foward portion and in my limited experiences keeps it out of the way. I always replace the too short vtac original adjustment lanyard with a gutted paracord loop an inch or so longer and I think it makes a difference, at least I dont recall ever missing a beat when reaching for the adjuster.
I attach my slings solid the rear of the stock using the slots webbing and buckles so that it comes off the RH side of the stock and enough movement to switch shoulders with out getting choked.
On the front end I use QDs with a steel socket (magpul) as far forward as practical without interfering with hand placement, about 2/3 of the way.
I like this set up for how the rifle hangs, across the body and its easy to limit its movements when cinched down. I tried various other combinations of attachment points. Im my case I found moving the front attachment to the reciver caused the rifle to hang nearly vertical which was good for some nut taps and getting in way while walking. I also found in prone cinching up the sling for extra support was less effective.
Attaching the back end of the sling to the receiver certainly helped with shoulder transition by keeping the sling away from my neck. The drawbacks for me were the loss of control while slung and it occasionally got in the way of my firing hand. Once I learned to attach the rear of the sling to the RH side of the stock to keep my neck clear I went back to attaching at the extreme ends.
With attachment at both ends its also easy to slip my left shoulder (RH shooter) under the sling leaving it just around my neck making all transitions and manipulations much easier. I wouldnt want to do this for extended periods for the sake of my neck but it works for the short term and adds to the versatility of the 2 point sling. Id like to try out a wotg sling sometime but im in no rush at the moment and no 3rd rifle to mount it on...yet
apologies if long winded and of course YMMV
Something to consider, I've been running my 2 or around my neck for max maneuverability. If I gotta run, do something with the hands etc, just put your arm through it.
Been working out so far. I actually picked up the idea from a Jason Falla video.
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