View Full Version : Legal question SBR
Would having two stamped lowers, both the same barrel length on paper would be legal if I only had one upper between the two of them? Both would say 12.5" on paper, but only one would be able to carry the single 12.5" upper at a time obviously. The other one would just be a host for other uppers that I want at the time. The original 12.5" upper would never get sold so technically, both lowers could be returned to the 12.5" configuration, just not at the same time. Thanks.
I understood, it mattered not what length of an upper is on your lower. With that said, I would imagine it wouldn't matter if you had an upper on any of your registered lowers or didn't!
As long as you mounted that upper on both first, it doesn't matter. Doesn't even matter if you still have the 12.5" upper or not.
It doesn't matter what length barrel you put on any lower for which you have an SBR tax stamp, no matter what the Form 1/Form 4 says.
As long as you mounted that upper on both first, it doesn't matter. Doesn't even matter if you still have the 12.5" upper or not.
I was under the impression you must be able to return the rifle to its original papered configuration or submit an update for the form 1/4 saying that it has been perminantly altered from its original configuration.
I was under the impression you must be able to return the rifle to its original papered configuration or submit an update for the form 1/4 saying that it has been perminantly altered from its original configuration.
There are a lot of people under that impression. But not a single one can give you a statute that backs it up.
Even in the ATF SBR FAQ (https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html), they use recommend as the word when asking for notification of permanent changes. Then, you have to get into the definition of "permanent" in the AR platform. Very few things you can do will be permanent.
The issue is there is a legal requirement for the ATF to keep the registry as accurate as possible (not to say it doesn't have errors, as there are many discrepancies), so they must ask you for notifications, but there's not a single requirement for you to actually provide that info. That's why they can recommend it all day, but can't require it.
medicman816
08-24-14, 22:49
Lets not forget... If it doesn't have a barrel, or if the barrel is 16.1+ inches, then It isn't really a SBR. Once it is registered, its the length of the barrel that makes it an SBR. ( This is why manufacturers don't sell "factory registered SBR Lowers" anymore, if it doesn't have a short barrel, it isn't a SBR in their eyes.) If you put a long barreled upper on it, it is no longer considered a SBR by the ATF and is no longer subject to the SBR "regulations". Of course it remains registered until you notify the ATF that you want it removed, so you can go back to a short barrel at any time.
Tl;dr your fine, don't worry about it.
Thank you. And after what I witnessed this past weekend in regards to the NFA registry and how screwed up they are, I am dumbstruck.
There are a lot of people under that impression. But not a single one can give you a statute that backs it up.
Even in the ATF SBR FAQ (https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html), they use recommend as the word when asking for notification of permanent changes. Then, you have to get into the definition of "permanent" in the AR platform. Very few things you can do will be permanent.
The issue is there is a legal requirement for the ATF to keep the registry as accurate as possible (not to say it doesn't have errors, as there are many discrepancies), so they must ask you for notifications, but there's not a single requirement for you to actually provide that info. That's why they can recommend it all day, but can't require it.
Why anyone would contact the BATFE and "de-register" one anyways, makes no sense.
Lets not forget... If it doesn't have a barrel, or if the barrel is 16.1+ inches, then It isn't really a SBR. Once it is registered, its the length of the barrel that makes it an SBR. ( This is why manufacturers don't sell "factory registered SBR Lowers" anymore, if it doesn't have a short barrel, it isn't a SBR in their eyes.) If you put a long barreled upper on it, it is no longer considered a SBR by the ATF and is no longer subject to the SBR "regulations". Of course it remains registered until you notify the ATF that you want it removed, so you can go back to a short barrel at any time.
Tl;dr your fine, don't worry about it.
Why anyone would contact the BATFE and "de-register" one anyways, makes no sense.
The only reason I can think of is if you got desperate for money and found somebody to buy an AR that has your name engraved on it. Put a 16" upper on it and sell it to anybody you want as a Title I firearm. Remove it from the registry to prevent any confusion down the road with that serial number in case the firearm was stolen or used in a crime.
Other than that...I don't know why else. I guess if you'd registered as an individual and your friend/child/etc wanted the rifle but didn't want to mess with NFA regulations, you could also give/sell it to them with a 16" upper as well.
Thank you. And after what I witnessed this past weekend in regards to the NFA registry and how screwed up they are, I am dumbstruck.
Can you elaborate on this?
Without elaborating too much. Let's just say that if for some reason they screw up and don't enter stuff into the registry like they are supposed to and or misplace the paperwork, even if you have the documentation they can and will seize your stuff. I won't even go into the alleged "violations" the inspector claims are violations even though he cannot or will not provide information to show it.
Can you elaborate on this?
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