View Full Version : SIG P226 .357 SIG QC issues for our HP
NorthDakota
08-25-14, 18:50
From my buddy:
"Well pretty sure it mostly came down to a bad production batch from sig. Out of roughly 150 guns we had to replace a pin holding the reset mechanism in our guns. 50 guns also had to have barrels replaced due to the feed ramp being not centered. We are still having issues with the guns not wanting to reset after firing so now we are getting all new frames on all 150 guns. Glock please."
I miss the days of a limited line of classics that worked. Anyone else have these issues?
You might gather by my username that I like my P220 ( and I do ) but it seems like Sig Sauer is a brand hell bent on ruining their name and reputation.
The 226 has often struck me as an ideal launcher for the 357 Sig round. Bummer to read of these accounts.
Glad mine were made in Germany ( West Germany on the 220 ).
You might gather by my username that I like my P220 ( and I do ) but it seems like Sig Sauer is a brand hell bent on ruining their name and reputation.
The 226 has often struck me as an ideal launcher for the 357 Sig round. Bummer to read of these accounts.
Glad mine were made in Germany ( West Germany on the 220 ).
I want an MK25 but these threads keep popping up and its disheartening.
operator81
08-27-14, 22:28
My agency just replaced our aging P229R .357s with new ones last spring. For 200 or so pistols the only problems we've had were some came with 6/8 sights installed. For those who shot to a standard to notice the change in POA/POI Sig quickly shipped out replacement sights. As far as malfunctions, we have had a handful, less than 10, which FTE causing a double feed.
From my buddy:
"Well pretty sure it mostly came down to a bad production batch from sig. Out of roughly 150 guns we had to replace a pin holding the reset mechanism in our guns. 50 guns also had to have barrels replaced due to the feed ramp being not centered. We are still having issues with the guns not wanting to reset after firing so now we are getting all new frames on all 150 guns. Glock please."
I miss the days of a limited line of classics that worked. Anyone else have these issues?
It is hard for me to make heads or tails of this without knowing what pin you are talking about...
Sounds like they are talking about the sear spring pin which is press fit into the frame. Either that or the notch which secures the trigger return spring is out of spec.that would require a new frame.
operator81
08-28-14, 11:23
Sounds like they are talking about the sear spring pin which is press fit into the frame. Either that or the notch which secures the trigger return spring is out of spec.that would require a new frame.
This. It is the pin that rides between the rear frame rails and hold the ejector, sear spring, sear assembly in place.
Tomahawk_Ghost
08-28-14, 11:47
For the last couple of years Sig is more interested in making guns that look cool in the next 'Call of Duty' game than guns that actually work.
Several agencies have experienced the same issues. Google terms "sig sear spring pin" for some reading. Sig is aware of the problems and has had guys in the field fixing guns reports flow in.
Glock isn't immune either.
PA State Police dumped their brand new 21s over jamming/trigger bar issues.
Sig P227 is the new flavor I heard.
NorthDakota
08-28-14, 20:29
Glock isn't immune either.
PA State Police dumped their brand new 21s over jamming/trigger bar issues.
Sig P227 is the new flavor I heard.
I have heard good things about the P227 from my previous NG Company Commander who is on the Minot PD. He went from S&W M&P to SIG P227 and he much prefers it.
I have read about the failure to reset on some G21's and G41 with Underwood loads. I plan to do testing on my G20SF and G41 to see if that is the case.
Several agencies have experienced the same issues. Google terms "sig sear spring pin" for some reading. Sig is aware of the problems and has had guys in the field fixing guns reports flow in.
I'm aware of this issue, but I do not think that people in this thread are talking about the same part. Don't feel bad, I had the names confused in my head up until a few months ago.
The sear pivot pin is the pin that rides between the rear frame rails and hold the ejector, sear spring, sear safety lever and sear in place. This is a part that can be serviced on an armorer or experienced end user's level. To the best of my knowledge, it is not the part that has caused problems.
The problem part is a small alligator pin known as the sear spring pin that is pressed into the frame and holds tension on the sear spring. This pin has been known to fail in a catastrophic manner as the slide is locked into place by the sear spring end that contacts the slide. Attempts by the end user to force the slide back can gouge the inside of the slide. Some forums have claimed that Sig sent armorers to agencies to inspect new guns and replace suspect parts as needed, but individuals with problem guns must send the entire gun back to the factory for this fix and inspection of the hole.
Other agencies have experienced trigger reset issues that were documented on this forum and YouTube. However, I was under the impression that was due to problems with the trigger bar.
So, back to my original question: is it the sear pivot pin, sear spring pin, trigger bar, or some other part?
NorthDakota
09-07-14, 18:27
Follow-up 1)
"So thought I would give you a little follow up to our Sig issue. Sig sent out new frames to "fix" our issues. We fired yesterday approximately 100 rounds through approximately 20 guns. We were lucky to have 5-6 without a single issue. We "dead lined" 4 other guns, and deemed the remainders good enough, although in my opinion we should have dead lined those as well."
Follow-up 2)
"We talked with Sig and they are now going to send up all brand new guns and we told them if we have any issues at all when we test fire them, we are going to go with a different firearm.
On the brighter side of things, we are getting brand new Daniel Defense 11 inch AR15s."
Follow-up 1)
"So thought I would give you a little follow up to our Sig issue. Sig sent out new frames to "fix" our issues. We fired yesterday approximately 100 rounds through approximately 20 guns. We were lucky to have 5-6 without a single issue. We "dead lined" 4 other guns, and deemed the remainders good enough, although in my opinion we should have dead lined those as well."
Follow-up 2)
"We talked with Sig and they are now going to send up all brand new guns and we told them if we have any issues at all when we test fire them, we are going to go with a different firearm.
On the brighter side of things, we are getting brand new Daniel Defense 11 inch AR15s."
At least they are trying to fix it...but man you dont want to see the m11-a1 thread on sigtalk. eek!
;) for the 11s!
Was there a particular pattern or reason why 20% of the sample had to be deadlines? What were the issues with the other 25%?
NorthDakota
09-08-14, 20:00
Was there a particular pattern or reason why 20% of the sample had to be deadlines? What were the issues with the other 25%?
I asked my buddy on the HP this:
"So were the deadlined pistols due to reset or feeding? Do you know what the issue was or part that needed replacement for the reset to work? I wonder if it doesn't have anything to do with the slide velocity due to the .357SIG performance. But, other versions work fine....odd"
He responded with:
"Yeah it was a mixture of issues. I am thinking part of the problem may have to do with the ammo we run with the super high velocity, but like you said our olds Sigs handled the same ammo with no issues. We had everything from triggers not resetting, to ammo not feeding, and light primer strikes causing rounds not to fire."
Sounds like Exeter NH Sig is totally FUBAR....
good luck to your department!
Sounds like Exeter NH Sig is totally FUBAR....
good luck to your department!
Has much as I want one, I dont want to get one.
SPARTAN HOPLITE ARMS
09-08-14, 21:47
I am retired now but one of my friends still on with the NYPD has advised me that every single Sig P226, department wide, has been recalled to have overhauls done due to some issues with the mainspring and/or other problems cropping up. I can't give specifics because I personally didn't read the FINEST message but I trust him implicitly as he is also affected by the recall due to carrying an issued P226. All guns are to be brought to the outdoor range to be examined by SIG reps for repair. I'm assuming any out of spec frames will have to be replaced as well. I will try to get an update from him but this doesn't bode well for Sig's already spotty record. My partner and I had quals back in 2005 and his duty weapon was failing to fire on every other press of the trigger. Armorers at the range replaced his main spring, if I recall correctly, and he was good to go thereafter though he was not one to shoot very often so I can't say if any other issues would have cropped up. I switched to a Glock 19 just before that because I hated the ridiculous trigger pull on the 226 mandated by bean counters. I now wonder if those issues were present the whole time but Sig was finally forced to make it public there because of more and more problem guns cropping up.
Southfield (MI) PD had extractors failing on their .357 Sig Sig P226 handguns. They left Sig for S&W and from there to Glock in .357 Sig
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
I take it the common thread here is the .357 SIG round? Slide velocity to high? Wear issues? Putting a cartridge in a design never intended to handle the pressure?
Tomahawk_Ghost
09-09-14, 10:56
Has much as I want one, I dont want to get one.
I hear you. I researched this and there is just too much evidence that Sig under Cohen is more interested in making guns that look like they belong in the next Call of Duty game than guns that actually work.
I own, Glocks, Berettas, Colts, & HKs; I'm going to give CZ a try. I like what I'm hearing about them.
I take it the common thread here is the .357 SIG round? Slide velocity to high? Wear issues? Putting a cartridge in a design never intended to handle the pressure?
Don't know the answer to your first question. Sounds like the guns are new, so wear shouldn't be an issue. I don't think it's any real secret that .40 wears out guns faster than 9mm and .357 wears guns out faster than .40. At least that's the way I understand it. And yes the P226, or actually more appropriately the P220, was designed as a 9mm; but, Texas DPS used the P226 in .357 for a number of years and to my knowledge didn't have any out of the ordinary problems with the guns. In fact last I read, they were back using Sigs because of the issues they were having with the M&Ps. Haven't heard anything since then, so I would assume that's the case.
I personally like Sig classic series pistols, but they can't keep having this type of thing happen. And it isn't just them, others are having issues as well. I get business is about profit, but there's a line to walk between profit and quality. Finding it sooner rather than later might be a good idea.
I carried a German built P228 (folded sheet metal slide) as a duty pistol for several years and had absolute faith in it's reliability and accuracy. That later became a P229RDAK in .40 which was OK. A Glock 19 has the duty now.
I was at Ground Zero when a large agency in my state experienced a series of failures with the P226 with E2 grips. The 'sear spring pin', part #27 on the exploded diagram from Sig (circa 2011), would fall out and allow one of the tails of the sear spring to become lodged between slide and frame. Locked up the guns pretty solidly. These were brand new from the box. All agency guns were checked over the course of three days and a new, tapered, sear spring pin was installed. No known issues since then, but I should know more as the guns come back around for extensive live fire. Sig had armorers on the ground within a week to effect the fix. A very recent graduate of the Sig Armorer's Course (prior to the problems experienced here) stated that an ongoing fix was going to be a new, tapered pin. This agency was very displeased with Sig over the issue and it will likely affect their future choice in handguns.
Not to let the P220 off the hook, as I've seen numerous instances of the hammer reset spring failing. I had occasion to check rental pistols in a very large number of commercial ranges and it was a regular thing to find that failure on the P220, even pistols less than a year old. I've inspected dozens of them as trade in guns and found a good number would have this failure. Lastly: http://www.odmp.org/officer/16325-officer-jesse-kenneth-paderez
Dang Kilroy! I checked out that link. On many levels that shouldn't have happened but the officers SIG should not have discharged. I imagine SIG will have a lawsuit on their hands. What does one look for to test the reset spring? I have a newish P-226 that I plan to shoot more often.
At least they are trying to fix it...but man you dont want to see the m11-a1 thread on sigtalk. eek!
;) for the 11s!
I would love to read it....Link please?
I would love to read it....Link please?
http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/27262-my-first-sig-9mm-m11a1-sig-wants-back.html
Brand new too..
Dang Kilroy! I checked out that link. ...... What does one look for to test the reset spring? I have a newish P-226 that I plan to shoot more often.
Without using the de-cock lever... Use the trigger to manually lower the hammer all the way down so it is in contact with the firing pin. Release the trigger and then, release the hammer and observe. When that spring is in working order the hammer should snap back vigorously. If not, get that spring replaced.
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