View Full Version : Who makes all the M4/M16 variants for the military?
Who makes all the M4/M16 variants for the military? I know “FNH” brags that they make over 70% of all small arms for the military? One of the reasons I ask this is I see a lot of people talking on other forums about how bad the AR/M4/M16 rifles are, how the military hates them and would get rid of them except for the fact of bribes being paid by manufacturers and low ball bids. I don’t agree with this as I thought there were multiple manufactures as the patents had run out on the original Stoner AR design. I would think the manufacturers would make what ever the military would want. It just doesn’t make sense to me. I can’t see how the American firearms companies would have the monetary clout to affect the DOD multi billion dollar budgets either. Overall the American firearms companies are not doing very well. Many are running in the red and are going under or being bought out.
All I know is I love my AR. I have forty four different firearms and bought my first AR a month ago. I have to say it is by far the FUNNEST gun I have to take out and shoot. I have been very surprised at what kind of damage that little bullet can do.
Robb Jensen
06-15-08, 08:54
Colt for M4
FN for M16A4
Failure2Stop
06-15-08, 09:28
Dastook-
Beware the advice/opinions of the inexperienced and paranoid.
Does the M4/M16 need inprovement? Yes.
Is there a drop-in system that would alleviate all issues? Maybe.
Does everyone in the military have sufficient experience and knowledge to accurately decide on what weapons system we should change to? No.
You'd now have to include Sabre Defence, although to a much smaller degree (so far).
Failure2Stop
06-15-08, 09:37
You'd now have to include Sabre Defence, although to a much smaller degree (so far).
They get included when they actually begin delivering. ;)
Award of a contract is not necessarily indicative of a quality product. While I do not doubt Sabre's ability to deliver, what MAY happen is irrelevant as to what IS happening.
Razorhunter
06-15-08, 10:15
How about Crane or LMT? I really have never known the deal with Crane, or what they do, but I thought LMT was sending some over to our military?
I know they supply to private contractors, but what about to the general military? I think the Navy gets the Mk18CQB from LMT right?
Paul,
Personnel on contracts in Iraq are not allowed to use privately procured weapons. Back in the "wild west" days guys did purchase uppers and slap them on their issued (read beat up) M16 or M4 lower. However, anyone on an authorized contract with BW, Triple Canopy, DynCorp, Aegis, EODT, etc...are prohibited and you can (most likely will) be terminated. Before most guys started using M4's/ M16's and when no one cared alot of personnel were using AK's and other weapons that the got from military cache points.
How about Crane or LMT? I really have never known the deal with Crane, or what they do, but I thought LMT was sending some over to our military?
I know they supply to private contractors, but what about to the general military? I think the Navy gets the Mk18CQB from LMT right?
They get included when they actually begin delivering. ;)
Award of a contract is not necessarily indicative of a quality product. While I do not doubt Sabre's ability to deliver, what MAY happen is irrelevant as to what IS happening.
Correct.
C4
How about Crane or LMT? I really have never known the deal with Crane, or what they do, but I thought LMT was sending some over to our military?
I know they supply to private contractors, but what about to the general military? I think the Navy gets the Mk18CQB from LMT right?
CRANE/NSWG use a lot of LMT parts. LMT DOES supply barrels and parts for the MK18. They (Crane) also use Colt barrels that have been cut down.
I also know that DEVGRU uses LMT parts as I have bid on contracts to them.
C4
I really have never known the deal with Crane, or what they do, ..............
Here you go: http://www.crane.navy.mil/whoweare/
Razorhunter
06-15-08, 12:00
Paul,
Personnel on contracts in Iraq are not allowed to use privately procured weapons. Back in the "wild west" days guys did purchase uppers and slap them on their issued (read beat up) M16 or M4 lower. However, anyone on an authorized contract with BW, Triple Canopy, DynCorp, Aegis, EODT, etc...are prohibited and you can (most likely will) be terminated. Before most guys started using M4's/ M16's and when no one cared alot of personnel were using AK's and other weapons that the got from military cache points.
Cool, did not know that.
Last week, when I was on the phone with LMT, they told me that many of their guns are going overseas to "contractors", so that is how I interpreted it.
Maybe there is something I'm missing here. Dunno. That's just what they said to me verbatum.
I also thought I'd seen a lot of custom upper builds that MSTN advertised as going "overseas" too, and I didn't think he'd be selling directly to the military. Who knows. So much going on these days.
Paul,
I am not saying that it doesn't/ didn't happen occasionally but with all the scrutiny being given to contractors I am fairly certain it isn't happening with any regularity on DoD contracts and for sure not on a DoS contract. Since being a "contractor" is a buzzword of sorts there is no doubt that some companies are saying this to make sales. I was on a contract back in late '06 early '07 and I used some personally procured stuff. But, no one there cared and there was very little oversight. If these companies only sold 1,2,3 or 10 uppers total would they be lying? No.
Cool, did not know that.
Last week, when I was on the phone with LMT, they told me that many of their guns are going overseas to "contractors", so that is how I interpreted it.
Maybe there is something I'm missing here. Dunno. That's just what they said to me verbatum.
I also thought I'd seen a lot of custom upper builds that MSTN advertised as going "overseas" too, and I didn't think he'd be selling directly to the military. Who knows. So much going on these days.
Most FN weapons for the DOD are made in the USA.
Most M4 haters do not have the experience make that judgement.
The Army is turning in all of their M16A2's for M4's. Only DMR's will be left as full size rifles in most units.
Razorhunter
06-15-08, 23:50
gotm4,
Could you tell us what that carbine/rifle is that you have pic'd in your avatar? I cannot make it out.
Got a full size pic?
Combat_Diver
06-15-08, 23:58
As far as contractors go, the term can also be used to describe the company such as Blackwater and Triple Canopy. I know my company in Iraq are using Double Star carbines to their specs. Fortunitley I've swapped out my 16" 1:9 for a M4 14.5" 1:7. Other than that guns run great.
CD
Razorhunter
06-16-08, 00:20
Blackwater is exactly the "contractor(s)" I was referring to.
Paul,
Blackwater uses DoS owned M4 Colt carbines. They are owned by the U.S State Dept. and signed over to the company for use on the contract. They cannot use any weapon, optic, or accessory that is not DoS owned. If you are caught using said items you will be terminated and someone will have to explain to the RSO why this was allowed. I know this for a fact and I am right down the street from said location in Baghdad. I also have certification from the State Dept. DEAV course.
Blackwater is exactly the "contractor(s)" I was referring to.
Robb Jensen
06-16-08, 05:47
gotm4,
Could you tell us what that carbine/rifle is that you have pic'd in your avatar? I cannot make it out.
Got a full size pic?
That's a Masada, I shot it at the Vickers mods/staff class in March of this year.
Nathan_Bell
06-16-08, 08:11
Paul,
Blackwater uses DoS owned M4 Colt carbines. They are owned by the U.S State Dept. and signed over to the company for use on the contract. They cannot use any weapon, optic, or accessory that is not DoS owned. If you are caught using said items you will be terminated and someone will have to explain to the RSO why this was allowed. I know this for a fact and I am right down the street from said location in Baghdad. I also have certification from the State Dept. DEAV course.
What is the reasoning behind the limitation to company owned or issued weapons and optics?
Nate,
The companies do not own the weapons. They are supplied to them by the U.S State Dept. The company armorers issue, maintain and account for them. I asked this same question and the best response I got was to ensure that there was uniform standardization of weapons and accessories. I am sure that they also wanted to prevent personnel from potentially purchasing inferior kit that would possibly get someone killed if it failed. I am sure there are other considerations but they are way above my pay grade.
On a side note, on my current project the weapons are actually company owned however there was no SOP in place as to maintenance, modifications, etc.. and there were some issues. I drafted an SOP which was approved fairly quickly and implemented. It didn't solve everything, but it sure helped.
What is the reasoning behind the limitation to company owned or issued weapons and optics?
Blackwater uses DoS owned M4 Colt carbines.
So who gets to use the BW Bushmaster M4s?
Iraqgunz,
Why do they care if you all use your own weapons?
Sorry, I guesed you already answered that. I should have read a little closer
People back home who want a carbine with a cool bearpaw logo on it.
So who gets to use the BW Bushmaster M4s?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.