View Full Version : I caved...ordered my first AK tonight!
MSparks909
08-27-14, 21:55
I've been doing a lot of thought the past couple of months about picking up an AK pattern rifle. I was very close to purchasing a 5.45 caliber AK-style rifle two months ago. Decided to hold off and use the funds for my AR builds. Really glad I did since 7N6 became banned and essentially dried up overnight. With 5.45 commercial roughly the same price as 7.62, I figured that I would go with a 7.62 for my first AK.
I've done a lot of research, watched tons of YouTube videos and read countless reviews and had narrowed down my choice to the Century Arms C39. USA made, middle of the road quality AK. Figured that would let me "test the waters" of the AK platform and see if this is a platform worth putting my time and money into. I had one in my shopping cart, but I decided to sleep on the C39 purchase before impulse buying it. After reading more reviews over the next couple of days, I emptied my shopping cart and resumed research.
I'm a fan of "you get what you pay for" and "buy once, cry once." I buy quality, mil-spec ARs and parts, so I figured why cheap out on an AK, especially my first one where a strong first range impression is the difference between keeping it and selling it/avoiding the platform? With that in mind, I began looking to Arsenal for a potential AK purchase. I was set on picking up a SLR-107FR, but then I read some reviews on the SAM7 series rifles. After much thought between going with a stamped or milled AK, I stumbled upon a new SAM7R for $1150/free shipping. Pretty good price compared to other listings I've seen online, and only $150 more than the SLR107FR I was going to purchase after adding shipping costs (no free shipping with SLR107)...so...I now have a SAM7R coming to my local FFL. Ordered 5 Magpul AK magazines and a Magpul MOE grip. I'm really looking forward to putting a lot of rounds through this AK. It will be a nice change from only shooting ARs (which is not a bad thing).
I'll probably run the AK in a few classes in the coming years. I'd like to take a Vickers AK class if he comes to my area. Other than that, I'll shoot this pretty regularly. I'll mount an Aimpoint later on and maybe a rail so I can mount a light. But for now, I'm going to shoot the hell out of it with irons and the stock furniture.
TacticalSledgehammer
08-27-14, 22:07
That's a solid rifle. I prefer their stamped rifles a little more but that's my personal preference.
Kalash9305
08-27-14, 22:48
I have an SLR 101S-13 that I picked up NIB at the beginning of last year from KVar's most recent Bulgarian Run
Great rifle very similar if not near identical to yours.
It was my first AK as well.
I don't shoot it much since it's so damn nice lol.
You'll love it.
MSparks909
08-27-14, 22:52
If I end up really liking the AK platform, which I have a feeling I will, I may pick up a stamped version down the road. I've never held or handled a high quality AK, so I was mostly going off reader reviews. All the reviews I've read said the stamped Arsenals are very high quality and the actions are smooth. The reviews also said the milled versions are smoother, but at the penalty of increased weight/less parts interchangeability.The only AKs I've shot in the past have been cheap WASRs (which worked fine) but were sloppily put together and screamed low quality. Figured I would try to set the bar for platform high with the milled Arsenal.
Side note, but are there any recommended recoil spring replacement intervals for AK rifles? Or are there any tests I can do (like the Glock RSA test) or any measurements I can refer to (like for AR action springs)? I can't seem to find a consensus on the web. Most users say replace the spring when it breaks, or that "they're good to go for life." It's a bit premature, but I don't like running things until they break, and prefer to be pro-active in regards to maintaining my firearms, especially on a high dollar purchase like this. I'll most likely be handing this down to my kids and I want to keep this in well working condition.
Straight Shooter
08-27-14, 23:03
Let us know your thoughts & impressions after you've shot it awhile, please. Im thinking about the same rifle for myself.
Flankenstein
08-27-14, 23:58
1. 7N6 has NOT dried up at all (But it def will in time...)
2. I prefer the 107 series.
3. That is still a very nice rifle, hope you enjoy.
Stock up on some ((10)) mags and wait for Magpul's steel reinforced mags or Toth Tool's mags to be back in stock...you kinda missed the boat on Golden Tiger also but oh well.
The Arsenals AKs are pretty much top shelf. You can use plain steel surplus AK mags, just check them for function if used. I have every caliber AK, and the 5.45 and 5.56 are definitely smoother shooters than 7.62, but the milled Arsenals are smoother in 7.62 than stamped.
Milled vs stamped is a personal preference thing. Stamped are usually lighter. My 2 Yugo OPAP rifles are tank heavy and outweigh your milled. They behave a little differently with that extra weight. The SAM7R is a beautiful rifle. You will have fun.
MSparks909
08-28-14, 10:12
Let us know your thoughts & impressions after you've shot it awhile, please. Im thinking about the same rifle for myself.
Will do. I'm looking forward to shooting this thing! Also really love how I can go into any Walmart around me and pick up a box of Tula for $5. I usually buy 90% of my ammo online, but it will be nice to be able to pick up Tula whenever I head to Walmart. The stuff is always in stock.
Will do. I'm looking forward to shooting this thing! Also really love how I can go into any Walmart around me and pick up a box of Tula for $5. I usually buy 90% of my ammo online, but it will be nice to be able to pick up Tula whenever I head to Walmart. The stuff is always in stock.
I prefer Wolf over Tula. Shoot both of those and you will probably see a difference.
MSparks909
08-28-14, 10:23
I prefer Wolf over Tula. Shoot both of those and you will probably see a difference.
Sounds good. Is the Yugo Surplus and its increased cost/corrosive properties worth it over conventional Wolf/Tula/Brown & Silver Bear/Golden Tiger for a recreational shooter?
That ammo is good, but aged and most only stock pile it for SHTF IMO. I wouldn't pay too much more for it over commercial 7.62. It is old Mil-Spec ammo and some use it to shoot where steel case ammo is not allowed. It supposedly has better tumbling affect also, but if your just shooting your AK, you don't need to use it.
What a lot of people like is Golden Tiger lacquered 7.62 ammo, but it's not readily available at all times.
MSparks909
08-28-14, 10:32
That ammo is good, but aged and most only stock pile it for SHTF IMO. I wouldn't pay too much more for it over commercial 7.62. It is old Mil-Spec ammo and some use it to shoot where steel case ammo is not allowed. It supposedly has better tumbling affect also, but if your just shooting your AK, you don't need to use it.
What a lot of people like is Golden Tiger lacquered 7.62 ammo, but it's not readily available at all times.
Thanks for the response. I'll stick with Tula/Wolf for the time being.
RAM Engineer
08-28-14, 10:41
If I recall correctly, in the past, DocGKR gave high terminal ballistics marks to the Wolf Military Classic FMJ and JP loads. Perhaps someone can correct or confirm that, as my search-fu is weak today.
My SAM7R is an awesome AK. I do still want a cheap WASR to beat on, but I would be completely content having the Arsenal as my only AK if I had to. I also almost went 5.45 but didn't because of the AK PMAGs and the fact that I could get 7.62 cheap at Walmart, like you said. Enjoy.
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Yugo surplus is excellent ammo, tends to be accurate for surplus ball.
3ACR_Scout
08-30-14, 08:25
I picked up a SAM7 about 9 years ago, without having really seriously considered an AK in the past - a friend needed to sell it and offered it to me for $600 with 10 magazines, with only about 200 rounds through it, so I couldn't pass it up (I think they listed for about $800 back then). The milled version is definitely heavy, but it feels incredibly solid and smooth. I'm not a serious AK guy, but I enjoy the occasional change from shooting ARs. The milled receiver definitely reduces your options for customizing the stock - I'd like to try Bonesteel's AR adapter eventually, as it appears to be the best option for milled receivers and doesn't require modifying the tangs:
http://bonesteelarms.com/Milled-AK-Folding-stock-with-integral-M4-collapsable-stock-MLDFSTB.htm
The only negative I've heard is that the stock is pretty low with this adapter, so using a Magpul CTR with cheek riser might be necessary.
Dave
Personally I'll be putting a wood stock from Ironwood Designs on mine, but that's because I want it to have the classic AK look.
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MSparks909
08-31-14, 11:52
Trying to nail down how to correctly zero an AK. I've read a ton of different threads on the "battle zero" and just using the rear sight leaf as it was designed. What is the correct way to get a "battle zero" with a 7.62 AK? I've heard that you set the sight leaf to the "100m" position, sight into POA/POI at 25m, and then move the sight to the "P" or rearmost setting. I've also heard that you just zero POA/POI at 25m with the "P" setting. I heard a couple of other suggestions as well. This is very confusing to someone who is used to a 100y AR15 zero. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Rifle is supposed to arrive at my FFL this Tuesday, however I'll be out of town most of the week so I won't be able to pick it up until later in the week.
If I recall correctly, in the past, DocGKR gave high terminal ballistics marks to the Wolf Military Classic FMJ and JP loads. Perhaps someone can correct or confirm that, as my search-fu is weak today.
Those were the old loadings. The HP used to be 8m3 IIRC. Currently the Silver Bear and Brown Bear 125gr SPs from Barnaul are the best "cheap" social ammo.
MSparks909
09-05-14, 12:34
Well...I'll be picking up my AKs tonight! After I ordered the SAM7R I kept coming back to the SLR107FR. Stamped vs. Milled, Folding stock vs. Fixed stock...Ended up ordering a SLR107FR from Atlantic Firearms Saturday afternoon. It will be arriving at the same FFL I sent the SAM7R to. My AK "itch" is fulfilled. I'm going to shoot both equally, but I'll probably mount a red dot on the SLR and leave the SAM7R irons only. Have 1,000 rounds of Red Army Copper Jacketed ammo inbound and 10 surplus Hungarian magazines, in addition to the 5 Magpul AK magazines and the Magpul grip I ordered last week. Probably won't get to shoot them this weekend, or next weekend (Proctor pistol class), but I'm definitely going to put some rounds through them in the next month or so. I'll post pics later tonight or tomorrow when I get time. I'll also give my impressions of the shooting characteristics between these two rifles after I run ~1,000 through each.
Flankenstein
09-05-14, 12:37
Well...I'll be picking up my AKs tonight! After I ordered the SAM7R I kept coming back to the SLR107FR. Stamped vs. Milled, Folding stock vs. Fixed stock...Ended up ordering a SLR107FR from Atlantic Firearms Saturday afternoon. It should be arriving at the same FFL I sent the SAM7R to. My AK "itch" is fulfilled. I'm going to shoot both equally, but I'll probably mount a red dot on the SLR and leave the SAM7R irons only. Have 1,000 rounds of Red Army Copper Jacketed ammo inbound and 10 surplus Hungarian magazines. Probably won't get to shoot them this weekend, or next weekend (Proctor pistol class), but I'm definitely going to put some rounds through them in the next month or so. I'll post pics later tonight or tomorrow when I get time. I'll also give my impressions of the shooting characteristics between these two rifles after I run ~1,000 through each.
Good work! You can't beat the 100 series side folders. Not sure where you plan to mount the red dot but if its via the side rail I'd suggest mounting it on the SAM...If you are going the ultimak route the point is moot.
Bulgy ((10)) mags are your friend also..
MSparks909
09-05-14, 13:04
Good work! You can't beat the 100 series side folders. Not sure where you plan to mount the red dot but if its via the side rail I'd suggest mounting it on the SAM...If you are going the ultimak route the point is moot.
Bulgy ((10)) mags are your friend also..
I'm leaning towards the Ultimak so far. I'd like to keep the factory bottom handguard. I'll also add a white light mount to the Ultimak and a sling to both. Might throw some wood furniture on the SAM7R down the road to make it look more "traditional." The stock sets from Ironwood Designs have caught my eye. And I do want to pick up some ((10)) magazines in the future. Tough pill to swallow right now considering how much money I've dropped these past two weeks. I'll probably get 5 ((10)) magazines in the next couple of months to a year and that will give me 10 magazines per rifle, which is what I usually try to strive for with my ARs.
Nice choice. My first AK was an Arsenal SGL 21. Great gun, never a hiccup. On the cusp of the stupid new laws in MD going into effect last year, I sold it for big money when I found an Arsenal SLR 107cr, which had always been my dream AK. I love ARs and even my Sig rifles, but always love a nice AK.
The Arsenals AKs are pretty much top shelf.
Do you base this on personal experience? I have a pretty extensive collection of AK's. My personal experience is that the quality of Arsenal's conversion work in NV is very poor.
SLR-95MB: 100% reliable thumbhole stocked. No "conversion" done by Arsenal in NV.
SLR-106CR: Sent back several times due to feeding and ejection problems. Eventually, Arsenal refunded $$$ to the company who my FFL purchased it from.
SLR-106UR: Sent back several times due to feeding and ejection problems. Eventually, Arsenal refunded $$$ to the company who my FFL purchased it from.
SLR-107UR: Front sight/gas block cracked at bottom by pin installation during conversion by Arsenal NV. The monkey who did the conversion had to have know he cracked the FS/GB (unless he was blind). Sent it back and they repaired it. It's now a SBR.
SLR-104UR: Fine except that Arsenal NV packed it in a box that allowed the rear sight to rub on the side of the box during transit. The result was that it entire serial numbered receiver cover had to be replaced. They replaced it with one with a different finish that's not serial numbered. Have not shot this one yet, but many are reporting that the 104UR's are very overgassed.
The bottom line is that Arsenal does not equal quality. They have a great selection of AK configurations, but don't assume that they spend your money on doing it right.
Right now I think that a $600 O-PAP or N-PAP is a much better value. BTW, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but I just want to point out that the most expensive AK isn't necessarily the best deal.
Do you base this on personal experience? I have a pretty extensive collection of AK's. My personal experience is that the quality of Arsenal's conversion work in NV is very poor.
SLR-95MB: 100% reliable thumbhole stocked. No "conversion" done by Arsenal in NV.
SLR-106CR: Sent back several times due to feeding and ejection problems. Eventually, Arsenal refunded $$$ to the company who my FFL purchased it from.
SLR-106UR: Sent back several times due to feeding and ejection problems. Eventually, Arsenal refunded $$$ to the company who my FFL purchased it from.
SLR-107UR: Front sight/gas block cracked at bottom by pin installation during conversion by Arsenal NV. The monkey who did the conversion had to have know he cracked the FS/GB (unless he was blind). Sent it back and they repaired it. It's now a SBR.
SLR-104UR: Fine except that Arsenal NV packed it in a box that allowed the rear sight to rub on the side of the box during transit. The result was that it entire serial numbered receiver cover had to be replaced. They replaced it with one with a different finish that's not serial numbered. Have not shot this one yet, but many are reporting that the 104UR's are very overgassed.
The bottom line is that Arsenal does not equal quality. They have a great selection of AK configurations, but don't assume that they spend your money on doing it right.
Right now I think that a $600 O-PAP or N-PAP is a much better value. BTW, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but I just want to point out that the most expensive AK isn't necessarily the best deal.
You must have gotten a bunch of lemons. And yes, I have a SGL21-60 and SLR 106F. I have also used another SGL21-60 my friend bought the same time as mine SGL and a SAM5 milled 5.56 AK, which none have had build or function issues. You mention the Zastava N/O-PAP, which I also had. Mine went back for refund due to canted rear leaf sight, but my friends O-PAP came out fine. My other friends O-PAP has yet to be fired, so I can't mention what condition it's in yet,http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/07/anyne3u5.jpg
N-PAP DF canted rear leaf sight I sent back.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/07/ynuqyra9.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/07/unyzy6u3.jpg
I'm not at all saying that everything that Arsenal NV converts is crap. Just trying to make the point that the quality is hit or miss which is what you wouldn't expect for the $$$. The O-PAP's and N-PAP's are hit or miss too, they just don't cost near as much. I had to send one back twice for a sight issue before they replaced it. Century's recent customer service is better than Arsenal's based on my interactions.
Unfortunately, the days of assuming that an AK is built right are gone. When I first started collecting AK's, an AK with something wrong or unreliable was a rare event. Now, a buyer really has to know what he's getting and even then he might be taking a risk.
I think a lot of Arsenal rifles made right around Sandy Hook timeframe and later is where the quality fell off some. The rifles weren't as expensive back then as they are now either. Back then, I could get a milled receiver Arsenal for $920, where now they are about $1200.
Flankenstein
09-07-14, 00:25
I think a lot of Arsenal rifles made right around Sandy Hook timeframe and later is where the quality fell off some. The rifles weren't as expensive back then as they are now either. Back then, I could get a milled receiver Arsenal for $920, where now they are about $1200.
Bullshit.
Bullshit.
Really? Give me your opinion then smartass
I think a lot of Arsenal rifles made right around Sandy Hook timeframe and later is where the quality fell off some.
I'll just point out that the 106CR, 106UR & 107UR that I detailed above were all purchased years prior to Sandy Hook.
Arsenal's QC did drop. Atlantic Firearms had to resort to inspecting them like they do the WASRs they sell due to the uptick in complaints and returns. I cannot recall when that started or if it coincided with any political event.
I'll just point out that the 106CR, 106UR & 107UR that I detailed above were all purchased years prior to Sandy Hook.
You mentioned the 106CR & 106UR. That entire SLR106 5.56 line up has had issues with failure to feed from the start. Arsenal has discontinued the 106 series.
You mentioned the 106CR & 106UR. That entire SLR106 5.56 line up has had issues with failure to feed from the start. Arsenal has discontinued the 106 series.
The entire series didn't have issues. There were some problem guns, but the 106FR's are generally good. Also, Arsenal has discontinued models before only to bring them back in a year or so.
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The entire series didn't have issues. There were some problem guns, but the 106FR's are generally good. Also, Arsenal has discontinued models before only to bring them back in a year or so.
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The 106 series is known to have feeding issues, which stems from the actual rifle to mags. Every company has had a problem gun, but the 106 series has had more issues than the other models and lately, more models are showing up from Arsenal with build issues.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?131689-Say-goodbye-to-the-SLR-106&
All of my arsenal guns have issues.
Slr107cr - rear sight leaf slightly crooked. The barrel was cut down and an extension pinned on, so I'm 50/50 on if it was arsenal or the previous owner.
Slr104 - barrel assembly canted <5 degrees. Not enough to care, and with the 7n6 ban it's in the safe to satisfy my collectors itch.
Slr106 cr - took 2 trips back to fix feeding problems. Rear sight block is a bit canted, and rear sight leaf is off too. When form 1 comes back it will have the barrel pulled and cut, and the other issues fixed.
MSparks909
09-07-14, 14:14
Spent a good bit of time examining both of my Arsenals. They seem very well put together with no canted sights, gas blocks, etc. Very little to no magazine wobble. Spent some time degreasing each of packing oil with rubbing alcohol and then re-lubed with FireCLEAN. The actions of both are very smooth; the SAM7R's action is noticeably smoother though. I don't like the 2-stage trigger that is in the SLR107. The take up is a bit rough and the break is probably between 6-7#. I don't have a trigger gauge so that's just an estimate. So far in dry-fire, I prefer the Tapco G2 trigger that is in the SAM7R. Thankfully, if I decide to change the SLR's trigger out after live fire it will only set me back roughly $30. The slings that came with the rifles are a joke; they must have been made with pygmies in mind. I'll be ordering 2 slings soon. Unfortunately I won't get to live fire these for another two weeks.
Good to hear. Those Bulgarian black slings are short compared to mil-surplus slings. It fits most like a necklace, lol. The two stage trigger in my SLR106 might go bye-bye too. I couldn't get used to it.
You mentioned the 106CR & 106UR. That entire SLR106 5.56 line up has had issues with failure to feed from the start. Arsenal has discontinued the 106 series.
The really bad thing is that they went on selling rifles for years on end that they knew were not right. They could obviously care less about their reputation.
Arsenal's issues go way back before Sandy Hook. Several years back, at the very least.
At the time, Arsenal knew very well what was going on, and made nothing but excuses for their issues. Add to that their terrible customer service, and you were in for a terrible time if you had a problem. I can't recall the name of the "customer service" lady that everyone complained about speaking with over the phone, but I also spoke with her, and she was extremely rude and unhelpful.
My SLR107FR has a slightly-canted FSB, but I was still able to sight it in, so I didn't even bother. My SGL21-62 is fine. To be fair, neither rifle has malfunctioned, and I have no major complaints about them. The way they handled it as a company, however, left a lot to be desired.
Good to hear. Those Bulgarian black slings are short compared to mil-surplus slings. It fits most like a necklace, lol. The two stage trigger in my SLR106 might go bye-bye too. I couldn't get used to it.
I hate the Arsenal 2 stage. Picked up a nickeled G2 to replace it.
Guntrician
09-21-14, 19:17
I've had good luck with Arsenal. Sounds like their service leaves something to be desired. All I have is a SGL31 but it's been rock solid. No canted sights. Smooth action. Exceptionally accurate. If I had any complaints it would be the cheap painted finish.
That said I do agree the O-PAP is a fine rifle as well. But I did have to send my first one back. Second one was/is great. Going to try an N-PAP next. My experience has been its a roll of dice with a lot of AKs. Dealing with a place that has good service is a big plus when buying these rifles sight unseen.
OP, enjoy your rifles. Look forward to range report.
MSparks909
09-21-14, 22:26
Unfortunately I haven't had time to make it to the range to sight in the new rifles. Been a very hectic couple of weeks! I'm planning to take them both this upcoming Saturday, along with my new AR build, to the range. Should be a good range day!
Guntrician
09-22-14, 20:17
Unfortunately I haven't had time to make it to the range to sight in the new rifles. Been a very hectic couple of weeks! I'm planning to take them both this upcoming Saturday, along with my new AR build, to the range. Should be a good range day!
I can sympathize with that. Until just recently it's been so darn hot too. It just didn't sound like much fun doing anything outdoors around here. I need to get my shooting shack built...with AC and heat. Lol!
By the way, I forgot to commend you on solving the dilemma of "milled vs stamped". Get both. Only right answer!
MSparks909
09-29-14, 19:39
Had a chance to shoot both Arsenals this past weekend. Took them along with my new AR build to the range to do a quick zero session. Decided to run the 200 yard zero on both of my Arsenals. In dry fire prior to taking both rifles to the range, I greatly preferred the G2 trigger found in the SAM7R over the 2-stage in the SLR-107. However, I found the break to be rather unpredictable and I turned in mediocre groups at both 25 and 200 yards. I found it much easier to shoot for groups with the 2-stage, albeit with an extremely gritty takeup (I'll probably polish the SLR's trigger components soon). The SLR-107 also had less felt recoil, probably due to the AK74-style muzzle brake. Both shot well. Put 90 rounds through each gun, so nothing earth shattering; I was pressed for time at the range and couldn't shoot more. I'm leaning towards using the SLR-107 as my "primary" AK pattern rifle (good 2-point sling, white light and a red dot), while the SAM7R will get a nice set of wood furniture and will be called "good."
The AK74 style brake makes a big difference in recoil. The AK74 in 5.45 and 5.56 are even smoother.
Jakedasnake
10-08-14, 12:45
I'm leaning towards the Ultimak so far. I'd like to keep the factory bottom handguard. I'll also add a white light mount to the Ultimak and a sling to both. Might throw some wood furniture on the SAM7R down the road to make it look more "traditional." The stock sets from Ironwood Designs have caught my eye. And I do want to pick up some ((10)) magazines in the future. Tough pill to swallow right now considering how much money I've dropped these past two weeks. I'll probably get 5 ((10)) magazines in the next couple of months to a year and that will give me 10 magazines per rifle, which is what I usually try to strive for with my ARs.
Owning so many AK's, including the SAM7, I would advise you to NOT go with the wood. It will add more weight to that rifle. But, if you insist, just don't sell that polymer stock. Because you may find yourself going back to it.
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The AK74 style brake makes a big difference in recoil. The AK74 in 5.45 and 5.56 are even smoother.
If it is a true 74 brake and not just a look a like.
If it is a true 74 brake and not just a look a like.
That's all I have, Russian or Bulgarian in Zig-Zag or half moon and one Arsenal version, but no Crapco.
Guntrician
10-09-14, 21:08
MSparks, good to hear your rifles performed well. I have to respectfully disagree with the gentleman above. Not about wood being heavier... I'm sure it is. If you want to try some wood furniture, I think you should definitely do it. They can be a thing of beauty. Weight be damned.
MSparks909
10-09-14, 21:18
MSparks, good to hear your rifles performed well. I have to respectfully disagree with the gentleman above. Not about wood being heavier... I'm sure it is. If you want to try some wood furniture, I think you should definitely do it. They can be a thing of beauty. Weight be damned.
I'm still planning on going with wood for the SAM7R. I'm really going for the traditional AK look. I don't mind the polymer furniture, but it's just a little "bland" to me. The SLR will be the "lightweight" AK and I will keep the polymer furniture on it!
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