View Full Version : AR500 Plates good to go?
Djstorm100
08-29-14, 09:42
I don't have the cash to get "ture" armor so to speak and been looking at these for price point with protection. The rig is a Mayflower. They are having a sale right now and I've been looking at the large shooter curve cut for some time w/ extra build up. I know oz are pounds in this aspect but half a pound for added protection is a no brainer. This is mostly for SHTF situation and while doing some classes. Some of the classes I've take is why I want to wear place. Bunch of guys getting together not knowing any one or let alone their background, I've had a close call my self to almost getting shot.
Of course I worry about spalling but these I like to think have came a long ways since first introduce 4 years ago and had time to get their stuff together. The added protection of the carrier it self would help with spalling to, no? You see the reviews of guys placing the armor in a box and shooting it and seeing if there are any holes in the box.
They are having a sale right now and I've been looking at the large shooter curve cut for some time w/ extra build up.
Who is they? AR500 is great armor, but spalling will depend on the covering/coating. I'd guess the carrier will help some, but nothing like a good good coating/covering on the actual plate.
Djstorm100
08-29-14, 09:51
Ar500armor.com
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're probably pretty good if you buy the coated plates.
I've been using their stuff for a while. It's heavy, but its more or less AR500 targets cut into body armor. At least I know it will stop a big ass bullet..... gonna hurt like a son of a bitch tho....
I've been looking at it, but for the price I'm going with some cheap ceramics from bulletproofme.
Ar500 + curve + heavy coating = 8lb, $110/plate and only Level III
Bulletproof me ceramic (http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.html) is a single curve like the ar500, 8.3 lb, $145/plate and is level IV standalone.
If it is an SHTF situation I'd feel much better with $60 less in my pocket and the ability to stop M855 rounds.
My current AR500 plates are like 6.6 pounds and they're ridiculously heavy to wear. I'm going to get some 6 lb ceramics from bulletproof me, but I hope to get some of the UHMWPE plates eventually. 4 pounds? Worth it.
Djstorm100
08-29-14, 23:24
Looking at the plates at bulletproof me they are the same weight if not little more than AR500armor plates.
OP,
My brother has ordered a few sets of these in recent times and we've just been using them for training plates. And for the price their a steal. We just had them sprayed at a local line X shop for cheap. Like 20$. Also he has them for less if you Dont need side plates.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=221311608112&alt=web
Looking at the plates at bulletproof me they are the same weight if not little more than AR500armor plates.
But they are level IV where as most ar500 is level III.
platoonDaddy
08-30-14, 07:09
Thanks for the link to bulletproof me, like the idea of Level IV
I've been looking at it, but for the price I'm going with some cheap ceramics from bulletproofme.
Ar500 + curve + heavy coating = 8lb, $110/plate and only Level III
Bulletproof me ceramic (http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.html) is a single curve like the ar500, 8.3 lb, $145/plate and is level IV standalone.
If it is an SHTF situation I'd feel much better with $60 less in my pocket and the ability to stop M855 rounds.
AR500 will stop 855, it won't stop M193 at close range.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM
AR500 will stop 855, it won't stop M193 at close range.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM
Good call, sorry I got my MXXX mixed up but did remember from Doc's testing that steel had trouble with commonly (aka walmart etc) available 5.56 ammo.
Voodoo_Man
08-30-14, 19:48
I have sone ar500 plates with linex
Good to go and awesome for training.
I do burpees in them.
Half of the reason I bought AR500 plates is to use them in a carrier as a weight vest.
http://youtu.be/-v_916ZYUIo. AR500 vs Targetman, done by idiots.. It was only vid I could find with side by side comparison. I've been happy with the Targetman plates (w/ BCS specific carrier) picked them up about two-ish years ago. It seems to fit my particular needs as average citizen, by sitting next to gun safe. If I was in anyway in a profession where I would need BA, I'd probably get the most expensive armor with all the bells and whistles.
But they are level IV where as most ar500 is level III.
Don't make the mistake of thinking "more" = "better". A level IV plate is a single shot testing protocol. Level III is a multi-hit protocol.
A level IV plate really only has to stop a single round of .30-06 AP to pass testing. A level III plate has to stop multiple hits from both 5.56mm and .308. What is more of a threat to you?
Thanks for the link to bulletproof me, like the idea of Level IV
See above.
My current AR500 plates are like 6.6 pounds and they're ridiculously heavy to wear. I'm going to get some 6 lb ceramics from bulletproof me, but I hope to get some of the UHMWPE plates eventually. 4 pounds? Worth it.
You can get poly plates weighing 2.4lbs per plate too. They're right around $500 each though. Don't expect them to stop green tip 5.56mm though.
kaltesherz
09-04-14, 19:24
AR500 will stop 855, it won't stop M193 at close range.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM
This. People love testing them with M855 and 16" barrels, but they fail miserably against M193 in 20" barrels.
I'd pick ceramic ESAPI's over steel all day. Better protection, lighter, and more comfortable.
Armor is a life-preserving piece of equipment. Before making a decision, you need to take a lot of factors into account, and not just cost. Armor also pretty much sucks to wear. It's hot, bulky, heavy, and makes doing anything a bit more difficult.
You've already commented some on the threat level you may expect to see, which is good. However, one thing to take into account is that here CONUS M855 is a fairly common round. This is a bit of a problem, because M855 was designed with the express purpose of defeating steel plate body armor. Even just going down to the local rifle range may expose you to M855...and in the SHTF situation that many use to justify the purchase of armor, you WILL be facing such a round.
In my research-for CONUS use, the end user needs to be concerned with stopping M193 and M855 5.56mm threats, and Mild Steel Core 7.62x39mm threats. Anything else is a bonus.
The problem with this is that NIJ '06 's level system isn't well designed to take into account common CONUS threats. Level IV should stop M855 (but isn't expressly tested for that round). Going from Level III to Level IV brings with it a lot more weight, and thickness. This is why if you've been paying attention to the armor market lately, you'll see a lot more special threat plates being released-where a plate is tested against precise threats, but it is not, "NIJ Certified." A prime example of this is the Velocity Systems PBZ plate, but there are others out there if you know what you're looking for. Don't get so wrapped up about what level a plate is, and be more concerned about what specific threats it can stop.
All that being said...I'm not a huge fan of Steel Plate armor for several reasons.
1) Testing/Threat Levels-Just because you see a YouTube video of a random plate being shot, there are a ton of variables that go into properly testing armor. Everything plays a role in this-plate position, backing, distance from shooter, and more. If you want to see the level of detail involved in testing, you can check out the the NIJ guide on ballistic testing (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf). Ballistic testing is SCIENCE-which means it needs to be controlled, and reproducible.
Note-I've read over AR500 Armor's page, and did see that their plates were tested to NIJ .06 standards by HP White. That goes a long way to helping my concerns there. But, it is worth noting that testing was documented only up to Level III standards.
Before you buy armor-ask the maker who tested it, to what standard. If they are not forthcoming with this, you may not want to spend your money with them. Further-any armor that is NIJ certified will be present in the NIJ's listing, which you can find here:
http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology/body-armor/Pages/compliant-ballistic-armor.aspx
2) Shape/Size-Most steel plates are not available in SAPI sizes, but are often 10x12" shooters cut or the like. SAPI calls for very specifically defined sizes. As an example, a Medium is 9.5"x12.5", and a Large would be 10.125"x13.25". This means that if you have a 10x12 plate and a Medium SAPI sized carrier, your plate is going to be a touch too wide, and just a touch too short. In light of this, said plate may not fit in some carriers (too wide), and some of those it will fit in, it will not sit so that the top edge of the plate covers the ascending aorta, etc.
...I may have allegedly ripped a seam on a Medium SAPI carrier trying to cram a 10x12 plate into it...
The other part is that some steel plates are flat. This isn't exactly good because the human torso is not flat. At minimum, I'd want a single curve plate, and optimally a multi-curve design. This is for comfort, as well as keeping the entire system closer to the body so it doesn't snag on anything.
3) Weight-That AR500 plate in a 10x12 Lvl III clocks in at 7.5lbs per plate. Add in a carrier at ~2lbs, pouches at another 1lb, and then a few loaded mags...and all of a sudden you're at 20lbs+ of suck and hate sitting on your shoulders. With some looking, you can find armor that comes in at a lot less weight, for minimal cost penalty. A good example is the Armour Wear PE 3+ plate plate. $189 gets you a 3.9lb plate that will stop M855. All of a sudden, you've cut your armor weight burden by almost half.
http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
(Yes, I know, they are 10x12's...no free lunches. My personal favorite SAPI dimensioned plates are the Tencate 2000SA & 6400SA, the VelSys PBZ's, and Tyr's LV-1191's. but those are all more than you're wanting to spend).
Anyways, that's all I've got for the moment. I hope you make your choice carefully, and in full consideration of all the facts.
kantstudien
09-05-14, 00:28
Here's a cheaper AR500 option with rhino-lining:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AR500-Body-Armor-Plates-2-10x12s-1-4-Rhino-Frag-Coating-USMC-Veteran-Business-/261581636602?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce77b03fa
Armor is a life-preserving piece of equipment. Before making a decision, you need to take a lot of factors into account, and not just cost. Armor also pretty much sucks to wear. It's hot, bulky, heavy, and makes doing anything a bit more difficult.
You've already commented some on the threat level you may expect to see, which is good. However, one thing to take into account is that here CONUS M855 is a fairly common round. This is a bit of a problem, because M855 was designed with the express purpose of defeating steel plate body armor. Even just going down to the local rifle range may expose you to M855...and in the SHTF situation that many use to justify the purchase of armor, you WILL be facing such a round.
In my research-for CONUS use, the end user needs to be concerned with stopping M193 and M855 5.56mm threats, and Mild Steel Core 7.62x39mm threats. Anything else is a bonus.
The problem with this is that NIJ '06 's level system isn't well designed to take into account common CONUS threats. Level III will stop M193, but not M855. Level IV should stop M855 (but isn't expressly tested). Going from Level III to Level IV brings with it a lot more weight, and thickness. This is why if you've been paying attention to the armor market lately, you'll see a lot more special threat plates being released-where a plate is tested against precise threats, but it is not, "NIJ Certified." A prime example of this is the Velocity Systems PBZ plate, but there are others out there if you know what you're looking for. Don't get so wrapped up about what level a plate is, and be more concerned about what specific threats it can stop.
All that being said...I'm not a huge fan of Steel Plate armor for several reasons.
1) Testing/Threat Levels-Just because you see a YouTube video of a random plate being shot, there are a ton of variables that go into properly testing armor. Everything plays a role in this-plate position, backing, distance from shooter, and more. If you want to see the level of detail involved in testing, you can check out the the NIJ guide on ballistic testing (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf). Ballistic testing is SCIENCE-which means it needs to be controlled, and reproducible.
Note-I've read over AR500 Armor's page, and did see that their plates were tested to NIJ .06 standards by HP White. That goes a long way to helping my concerns there. But, it is worth noting that testing was documented only up to Level III standards.
Before you buy armor-ask the maker who tested it, to what standard. If they are not forthcoming with this, you may not want to spend your money with them. Further-any armor that is NIJ certified will be present in the NIJ's listing, which you can find here:
http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology/body-armor/Pages/compliant-ballistic-armor.aspx
I've not seen a Steel Plate that can reliably stop M855. If you can show me independent lab results otherwise, I'll gladly admit to being wrong. Otherwise, I go back to my comment a bit ago about common CONUS threats-of which M855 is one.
2) Shape/Size-Most steel plates are not available in SAPI sizes, but are often 10x12" shooters cut or the like. SAPI calls for very specifically defined sizes. As an example, a Medium is 9.5"x12.5", and a Large would be 10.125"x13.25". This means that if you have a 10x12 plate and a Medium SAPI sized carrier, your plate is going to be a touch too wide, and just a touch too short. In light of this, said plate may not fit in some carriers (too wide), and some of those it will fit in, it will not sit so that the top edge of the plate covers the ascending aorta, etc.
...I may have allegedly ripped a seam on a Medium SAPI carrier trying to cram a 10x12 plate into it...
The other part is that some steel plates are flat. This isn't exactly good because the human torso is not flat. At minimum, I'd want a single curve plate, and optimally a multi-curve design. This is for comfort, as well as keeping the entire system closer to the body so it doesn't snag on anything.
3) Weight-That AR500 plate in a 10x12 Lvl III clocks in at 7.5lbs per plate. Add in a carrier at ~2lbs, pouches at another 1lb, and then a few loaded mags...and all of a sudden you're at 20lbs+ of suck and hate sitting on your shoulders. With some looking, you can find armor that comes in at a lot less weight, for minimal cost penalty. A good example is the Armour Wear PE 3+ plate plate. $189 gets you a 3.9lb plate that will stop M855. All of a sudden, you've cut your armor weight burden by almost half.
http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
(Yes, I know, they are 10x12's...no free lunches. My personal favorite SAPI dimensioned plates are the Tencate 2000SA & 6400SA, the VelSys PBZ's, and Tyr's LV-1191's. but those are all more than you're wanting to spend).
Anyways, that's all I've got for the moment. I hope you make your choice carefully, and in full consideration of all the facts.
What do you do for a living if I may ask?
Appalachian
09-05-14, 08:47
I don't have the cash to get "ture" armor so to speak and been looking at these for price point with protection. The rig is a Mayflower. They are having a sale right now and I've been looking at the large shooter curve cut for some time w/ extra build up. I know oz are pounds in this aspect but half a pound for added protection is a no brainer. This is mostly for SHTF situation and while doing some classes. Some of the classes I've take is why I want to wear place. Bunch of guys getting together not knowing any one or let alone their background, I've had a close call my self to almost getting shot.
Of course I worry about spalling but these I like to think have came a long ways since first introduce 4 years ago and had time to get their stuff together. The added protection of the carrier it self would help with spalling to, no? You see the reviews of guys placing the armor in a box and shooting it and seeing if there are any holes in the box.
Wanted to discuss some of the threat levels that brother Adam pointed out. Before you get too deep into the selection process I would recommend that you do the following:
Define you requirements. A lot of times we have clients that approach armor with the "for classes" "SHTF" etc as the rationale for purchasing armor. Always start with the most likely threat(s) as the start point. One has to take a good look at what the most likely (not most dangerous, not "might be a threat") to determine the level of protection. If not, you can end up chasing a solution to a problem that may never exist for your particular set of conditions. CONUS civilian threats are a bit different and probably narrower than mil or what a PMC going to Astan might encounter. As there are gaps in the performance of some materials make sure you understand and account for them (eg M855 vs pure UHMWPE, (X)M193 vs steel). We cant protect against everything, we can choose a solution that is inside the required parameters.
Once you determine the most likely threat(s) the balancing act begins. As with most things in life armor is a series of tradeoffs that have to be weighed and assessed to determine the best one to meet you requirements. These are protection, weight, cost, and durability. Materials, manufacturer, size, cut, shape, and even NIJ certification are all elements that will influence those four criteria.
There are far too many options available these days to simply default to the cheapest. I admit I am not a proponent of steel armor (except in very specific applications for very special jobs), but when you look objectively at balancing protection, weight, cost, and durability you might find there is a better solution out there for you. FWIW
kaltesherz
09-05-14, 11:45
Uh, you seem to keep getting M855 and M193 mixed up.
M855 was designed to go through a Soviet helmet at distance, not steel plate per se and is easily defeated by most AR500 plates. People view it as a cheap AP like round, which is why so many videos exist of AR500 plates defeating M855... the rational being if M855 is stopped, every other 5.56 will be stopped as well.
Thing people over look is velocity- M193 has a higher muzzle velocity, and combined with a longer barrel (20" on a standard AR-15 rifle) it will go through AR500 plates like butter.
Ironically ultra lightweight polyurethane plates stop M193 and are defeated by M855.
Ceramic stops both.
Armor is a life-preserving piece of equipment. Before making a decision, you need to take a lot of factors into account, and not just cost. Armor also pretty much sucks to wear. It's hot, bulky, heavy, and makes doing anything a bit more difficult.
You've already commented some on the threat level you may expect to see, which is good. However, one thing to take into account is that here CONUS M855 is a fairly common round. This is a bit of a problem, because M855 was designed with the express purpose of defeating steel plate body armor. Even just going down to the local rifle range may expose you to M855...and in the SHTF situation that many use to justify the purchase of armor, you WILL be facing such a round.
In my research-for CONUS use, the end user needs to be concerned with stopping M193 and M855 5.56mm threats, and Mild Steel Core 7.62x39mm threats. Anything else is a bonus.
The problem with this is that NIJ '06 's level system isn't well designed to take into account common CONUS threats. Level III will stop M193, but not M855. Level IV should stop M855 (but isn't expressly tested). Going from Level III to Level IV brings with it a lot more weight, and thickness. This is why if you've been paying attention to the armor market lately, you'll see a lot more special threat plates being released-where a plate is tested against precise threats, but it is not, "NIJ Certified." A prime example of this is the Velocity Systems PBZ plate, but there are others out there if you know what you're looking for. Don't get so wrapped up about what level a plate is, and be more concerned about what specific threats it can stop.
All that being said...I'm not a huge fan of Steel Plate armor for several reasons.
1) Testing/Threat Levels-Just because you see a YouTube video of a random plate being shot, there are a ton of variables that go into properly testing armor. Everything plays a role in this-plate position, backing, distance from shooter, and more. If you want to see the level of detail involved in testing, you can check out the the NIJ guide on ballistic testing (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/223054.pdf). Ballistic testing is SCIENCE-which means it needs to be controlled, and reproducible.
Note-I've read over AR500 Armor's page, and did see that their plates were tested to NIJ .06 standards by HP White. That goes a long way to helping my concerns there. But, it is worth noting that testing was documented only up to Level III standards.
Before you buy armor-ask the maker who tested it, to what standard. If they are not forthcoming with this, you may not want to spend your money with them. Further-any armor that is NIJ certified will be present in the NIJ's listing, which you can find here:
http://www.nij.gov/topics/technology/body-armor/Pages/compliant-ballistic-armor.aspx
I've not seen a Steel Plate that can reliably stop M855. If you can show me independent lab results otherwise, I'll gladly admit to being wrong. Otherwise, I go back to my comment a bit ago about common CONUS threats-of which M855 is one.
2) Shape/Size-Most steel plates are not available in SAPI sizes, but are often 10x12" shooters cut or the like. SAPI calls for very specifically defined sizes. As an example, a Medium is 9.5"x12.5", and a Large would be 10.125"x13.25". This means that if you have a 10x12 plate and a Medium SAPI sized carrier, your plate is going to be a touch too wide, and just a touch too short. In light of this, said plate may not fit in some carriers (too wide), and some of those it will fit in, it will not sit so that the top edge of the plate covers the ascending aorta, etc.
...I may have allegedly ripped a seam on a Medium SAPI carrier trying to cram a 10x12 plate into it...
The other part is that some steel plates are flat. This isn't exactly good because the human torso is not flat. At minimum, I'd want a single curve plate, and optimally a multi-curve design. This is for comfort, as well as keeping the entire system closer to the body so it doesn't snag on anything.
3) Weight-That AR500 plate in a 10x12 Lvl III clocks in at 7.5lbs per plate. Add in a carrier at ~2lbs, pouches at another 1lb, and then a few loaded mags...and all of a sudden you're at 20lbs+ of suck and hate sitting on your shoulders. With some looking, you can find armor that comes in at a lot less weight, for minimal cost penalty. A good example is the Armour Wear PE 3+ plate plate. $189 gets you a 3.9lb plate that will stop M855. All of a sudden, you've cut your armor weight burden by almost half.
http://armour-wear.com/hard-panels/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html
(Yes, I know, they are 10x12's...no free lunches. My personal favorite SAPI dimensioned plates are the Tencate 2000SA & 6400SA, the VelSys PBZ's, and Tyr's LV-1191's. but those are all more than you're wanting to spend).
Anyways, that's all I've got for the moment. I hope you make your choice carefully, and in full consideration of all the facts.
M193 has a higher muzzle velocity, and combined with a longer barrel (20" on a standard AR-15 rifle) it will go through AR500 plates like butter.
How thin of a plate? 1/4" will stop M193, but it will pock up the plate. I think maybe some of the body armor plates may be made a little thinner for weight savings.
I've seen 3/8" AR500 fatigue an perforate the steel. I agree M193 at close distances is brutal on AR500, but I've not seen it go through like butter.
kaltesherz
09-05-14, 16:19
I agree M193 at close distances is brutal on AR500, but I've not seen it go through like butter.
Were you using a 16" or 20" barrel? Also we're talking about body armor plates, not target plates.
loganp0916
09-05-14, 17:24
Were you using a 16" or 20" barrel? Also we're talking about body armor plates, not target plates.
Not Mark but I saw a video yesterday by currahee and he shot an ar500 plate with m193 out of both a 16" and a 20" ar. All four shots (two from each rifle) punched right through the plate
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
First off-Thank you kaltesherz for correcting me. I was wrong in that, and have edited that incorrect information out of my post. This is what I get for posting when tired.
Next-I've seen M193 zing steel plate as well. Maybe I saw bad steel, a particularly hot round, or the moon was aligned with Mars just right. Take that for what you will.
As Appalachian said-determine your threats, and start doing your balancing act from there. Don't go chasing unicorns.
Finally-if what I do for a living needs to enter this discussion, I'm just a pharmacist. I've taken a fair bit of time to read and research on this topic though out of personal interest, and have discussed it with someone who is just a dentist-and formed my own opinions.
Don't make the mistake of thinking "more" = "better". A level IV plate is a single shot testing protocol. Level III is a multi-hit protocol.
A level IV plate really only has to stop a single round of .30-06 AP to pass testing. A level III plate has to stop multiple hits from both 5.56mm and .308. What is more of a threat to you?
Technically correct but in practice level IV typically stops the same things as level III plus the AP stuff (http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Rifle_Protection.shtml#Levels) and multiple youtube videos show level IV plates stopping multiple rounds.
Given that I'd rather stop multiple rounds of various ammo and have the ability to stop xm193. Don't get me wrong ar500 plates are nice but you need to know the limits so you can decide on the armor that fits your expected needs best.
What steel composition are these AR500 plates people are punching through?
There are differences in cheaper plates vs quality more expensive steel plates, thickness, steel used, process of hardening, etc. I have target plates that have seen thousands of rounds of m193, thousands of rounds of 9mm, and thousands of rounds of Soviet 7n6 and they're still standing with pock marks at the most.
kaltesherz
09-05-14, 20:48
What steel composition are these AR500 plates people are punching through?
There are differences in cheaper plates vs quality more expensive steel plates, thickness, steel used, process of hardening, etc. I have target plates that have seen thousands of rounds of m193, thousands of rounds of 9mm, and thousands of rounds of Soviet 7n6 and they're still standing with pock marks at the most.
There's a huge difference in thickness (and therefor weight) between target plates and ballistic plates. While not all AR500 is the same, there's a reason the MIL / LE don't use steel plates anymore. It's too heavy, uncomfortable, and can't defeat all reasonable threats (generally).
Djstorm100
09-07-14, 02:11
Thanks guys for the great wealth of knowledge.
First threat is guys on the range during classes.
Insert 2nd threat and what not
Last would be SHTF
While I have given though to which is great threat from day one comes back that most peoples shoot combination of M193 and M855. At least I do, so that's where the problem/ balancing act starts.
AK round while has more inertia, it does not have the velocity. Anything over 3,100-3,200 ft/sec will go through AR500 plate.
What steel composition are these AR500 plates people are punching through?
There are differences in cheaper plates vs quality more expensive steel plates, thickness, steel used, process of hardening, etc. I have target plates that have seen thousands of rounds of m193, thousands of rounds of 9mm, and thousands of rounds of Soviet 7n6 and they're still standing with pock marks at the most.
I believe most of the 'armor" AR500 plates are 1/4 inch thick, while target are 3/8 or larger.
One thing not mentioned so far (that I saw) is spall. While you can jury-rig it with soft armor or LineX or something, do you want the risk of a round peppering your throat or face?
Djstorm100
09-08-14, 19:48
I believe most of the 'armor" AR500 plates are 1/4 inch thick, while target are 3/8 or larger.
One thing not mentioned so far (that I saw) is spall. While you can jury-rig it with soft armor or LineX or something, do you want the risk of a round peppering your throat or face?
the coating would hold it (hoping)
I believe most of the 'armor" AR500 plates are 1/4 inch thick, while target are 3/8 or larger.
One thing not mentioned so far (that I saw) is spall. While you can jury-rig it with soft armor or LineX or something, do you want the risk of a round peppering your throat or face?
The youtube and in person testing I've seen of the ar500.com coating reduces spall/fragging to 0.
The youtube and in person testing I've seen of the ar500.com coating reduces spall/fragging to 0.
At what angle if impact? 100% perpendicular sure but how well does it do at say 45* or lower? In the past I've sent emails to both ar500 and the target man specifically inquiring on that attribute and I never received a clear answer.
At what angle if impact? 100% perpendicular sure but how well does it do at say 45* or lower? In the past I've sent emails to both ar500 and the target man specifically inquiring on that attribute and I never received a clear answer.
Sorry never seen that kind of testing done.
Sorry never seen that kind of testing done.
Yea, that's my biggest gripe. Logic dictates any coating will do absolutely nothing to mitigate spall let alone stop a ricochet. Only the likelihood in real life of receiving anything other than a straight on hit is obviously much much higher.
Better than no plates at all I suppose, but still.
What steel composition are these AR500 plates people are punching through?
There are differences in cheaper plates vs quality more expensive steel plates, thickness, steel used, process of hardening, etc. I have target plates that have seen thousands of rounds of m193, thousands of rounds of 9mm, and thousands of rounds of Soviet 7n6 and they're still standing with pock marks at the most.
Most steel targets give you a minimum safe distance for rifles, and that is to allow the velocity to drop before it impacts the steel.
Example: http://store.actiontarget.com/statictargets/pt-torso.html
- Steel grade: 3/8” AR550 armor steel
- Handgun shooting distance: 10+ yards
- Rifle shooting distance: 100+ yards using ammunition below 3,000 fps
Once you cross the steels velocity threshold, rounds can literally melt/punch right through it.
kaltesherz
10-11-14, 22:45
Not to mention target steel is thicker than armor steel.
AR500 is the Bushmaster of hard armor.
I am really curious to see their new line of level 4 plates get tested.
I am really curious to see their new line of level 4 plates get tested.
I just took a glance at the plate. They never specify who, or how the plate was tested, thus how the Level IV rating is established. Further, the back of the plate specifies the threat rating is, "Level IV Special Threat Tested, 7.62x63 M2AP".
I would want to know the following before spending my money:
-Who performed the testing to establish this level of protection?
-What protocol was used to perform this testing?
-Was this plate only tested against M2AP, or were other threats tested against as well?
-Why use Special Threat testing, as opposed to the NIJ established Level IV testing protocols?
Not sure if you're dead set on steel or if it's the price driving you here. One thing that seems to drive the really high cost is the name/brand protection that comes with buying from long established manufacturers. But more importantly, those who've been in the game for a long time are constantly making steps towards thinner, lighter, less cumbersome armor. Much the way BCM and DD et all are making their own improvements on function of parts, think the A2 grip vs all the new grips available from each.
If it's price vs protection, there's enough of a solid counter argument against steel that I'd almost not even consider it. Maybe if you're a SHTF thinker who is looking for basic and easy backup carriers for family or to build your indigenous military. But then again..
For the cost of a steel plate of questionable performance, you can go to HighCom Security website and get their Lvl4 stand alone plates in the SAPI variety and using coupon code "ARMOR", get a no shit NIJ tested SAPI plate for around $160 depending on size you ordered. I can tell you they are lighter and more comfortable than the more expensive SAPI plates I have from a variety of other better known manufacturers. I have been using these since I was turned to them a while back.
Link: http://highcomsecurity.com/products/guardian-4sas-15
A62Rambler
10-14-14, 11:15
For the cost of a steel plate of questionable performance, you can go to HighCom Security website and get their Lvl4 stand alone plates in the SAPI variety and using coupon code "ARMOR", get a no shit NIJ tested SAPI plate for around $160 depending on size you ordered.
Link: http://highcomsecurity.com/products/guardian-4sas-15
You need to look a little closer before posting this. Per their website: "Multi-curve shape is sold as independently tested according to NIJ 0101.06 standard" So while their single curve is NIJ certified their multi-curve is not NIJ certified. I just thought this should be pointed out.
Buying armor can be confusing to say the least. There's a vast amount of information that needs to be learned before buying. I personally will pass on any armor that is not NIJ certified. I don't accept independently certified as an answer. I certainly don't accept Joe Average posted a video on your tube and it held up as a substitute for NIJ certification. Also, watch the weight listing carefully. I have seen ceramic NIJ armor plates that were as heavy as steel. I've also seen for slightly more money NIJ ceramics that were half the weight. As for AR500, I'll pass on steel plates. If I need armor I'll spend a little more and get lighter, more comfortable and certified armor. It reminds me of the Aimpoint/EOTech versus other red dot sight question. It's worth a little more money even if that means I don't get it right now. That way I know that when I do spend the money I won't regret not spending a little more. I'm in my early 50s and I've had to learn the hard way over the years that waiting a little longer to get what I really want is better than getting it now and then not getting what I really want. You do what you want. After all, I've already admitted that I had to learn the hard way! ;)
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