View Full Version : Ukraine Wants Full NATO Membership
30 cal slut
08-29-14, 12:50
LOL
This should be interesting.
Title says it all.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/29/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0GS10C20140829
montanadave
08-29-14, 12:53
Everybody who thinks that's a good idea please raise your hand . . . so we can escort you from the building.
Ukraine should have made this decision a few years ago and they'd probably still own the Crimean port.
Doc Safari
08-29-14, 13:42
This is like the guy who scrambles to buy flood insurance when his driveway is already under water.
Reminds me of that Carole King song, "It's too late, Baby, yeah, it's too late...."
This is a gem.
defiant Putin compares Kiev to Nazis
Exactly who is massing troops and tanks on who's borders? Who was it that blitzed Crimea?
Bolt_Overide
08-29-14, 14:32
Not a mess we want to get involved in.
This is like the guy who scrambles to buy flood insurance when his driveway is already under water.
Or the goofballs who wait until a mass shooting to figure out they "need" an AR, Clips, and ammo?
This is a gem.
Exactly who is massing troops and tanks on who's borders? Who was it that blitzed Crimea?
In short, what exactly is Putin trying to accomplish by invading the Ukraine? Natural resources, strategic ports? Sorry if I'm way off.
BoringGuy45
08-29-14, 15:20
In short, what exactly is Putin trying to accomplish by invading the Ukraine? Natural resources, strategic ports? Sorry if I'm way off.
For the same reason Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia: As a testing phase. To see if he could, and if he did, would anyone would do anything about it. Frighteningly, I feel he'll get the same response that Hitler got from the rest of the world: We've got enough of our own problems, they aren't even officially our allies, they're no saints themselves, not our war, we're sick of war in general. The left here in the U.S. will chant that war is never the answer and no more blood for oil. The right will demand we pull out of the UN and NATO, and call them when Russian troops are storming the Atlantic Seaboard and crossing the Bering Strait, but not until then. Putin has to know that if he invades Ukraine and the world does nothing, he can bank on a very limited response to invading lesser NATO allies like Estonia, Lithuania, etc. If he takes the Baltic states, that shows that NATO is weak and not willing to actually do what it's intended to do, and he can formulate a plan to take even more strategic advantages, and perhaps start going after Poland, Germany etc.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-29-14, 17:45
If I were Poland, I'd start working quietly on the bomb. After being killing fields for others wars for a couple of hundred years and finally getting their economy in place the Russian bear is on the hunt.
Wonder how many Georgians, Latvians and Estonians are filling out US immigration forms or wondering about the Mexican option.
In short, what exactly is Putin trying to accomplish by invading the Ukraine? Natural resources, strategic ports? Sorry if I'm way off.
Lots and lots of reasons. Ukraine is sorta the "bread basket" for the area, the reasons BG45 stated and perhaps more than anything else, a desire to rebuild the "old empire." Power is rarely content with what it has.
We spend $5 billion to destabilize the place. They pay snipers to shoot randomly at Maidan and hire thugs to attack the local police and somehow "Russia started it..."
LOL!!!
Russia has not invaded anything despite Kiev making the claim and backing off of it weekly for months now. I guess his Jedi Mindtrick skills are good because some buy it.
Why is THE WEST so hellbent on surrounding Russia with NATO bases? THAT should be the herd of elephants in the living room but escapes many.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
We spend $5 billion to destabilize the place. They pay snipers to shoot randomly at Maidan and hire thugs to attack the local police and somehow "Russia started it..."
LOL!!!
Russia has not invaded anything despite Kiev making the claim and backing off of it weekly for months now. I guess his Jedi Mindtrick skills are good because some buy it.
Why is THE WEST so hellbent on surrounding Russia with NATO bases? THAT should be the herd of elephants in the living room but escapes many.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
I cannot agree with the above quote more!!! The U.S. has NO business in the Ukraine period.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-30-14, 09:20
We spend $5 billion to destabilize the place. They pay snipers to shoot randomly at Maidan and hire thugs to attack the local police and somehow "Russia started it..."
LOL!!!
Russia has not invaded anything despite Kiev making the claim and backing off of it weekly for months now. I guess his Jedi Mindtrick skills are good because some buy it.
Why is THE WEST so hellbent on surrounding Russia with NATO bases? THAT should be the herd of elephants in the living room but escapes many.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Umm, what?
To say what is happening, is not actually happening is delusional. If you don't want us active in Ukraine, say so- don't say that Russia isn't now directly in and hasn't been involved since the start. All in violation of the treaty they signed about Ukraine- but we all know what treaties are worth.
Why NATO bases all around Russia? Being of Polish extraction it's pretty obvious to me. NATO is what keeps Europe together and the Germans from getting hungry and doing stupid things.
Why NATO bases? Pope JPII is going to rise up and Pope slap you.
I cannot agree with the above quote more!!! The U.S. has NO business in the Ukraine period.
Yes, let's blame ourselves! After all it simply must be our fault, just like rampant black crime.
You should be ashamed to say you bought into that simpleton tripe above. Russia has an agenda that extends far beyond Ukraine. Pay attention to reality.
montanadave
08-30-14, 10:55
Take a look at a geopolitical map of Europe, say, circa 1975. Compare that to the same today. What does it show? And what does it say about the winners and losers in this great game we endlessly squander our blood and treasure on?
Umm, what?
To say what is happening, is not actually happening is delusional. If you don't want us active in Ukraine, say so- don't say that Russia isn't now directly in and hasn't been involved since the start. All in violation of the treaty they signed about Ukraine- but we all know what treaties are worth.
Why NATO bases all around Russia? Being of Polish extraction it's pretty obvious to me. NATO is what keeps Europe together and the Germans from getting hungry and doing stupid things.
Why NATO bases? Pope JPII is going to rise up and Pope slap you.
That's delusional logic that flies in the face of US and NATO foreign policy that has been in the public record for over 80 years.
Great. You're of Polish extraction.
So is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Have you STUDIED his work?
I am going to guess NO, you've not.
NATO's role ceased to be once the USSR collapsed. So why the lying and subterfuge? Re: we promised not to extend NATO into the former Soviet Republics and that is exactly what we have done. But some of you are either wholly ignorant of details or are delusional. If the roles were reversed (we were the Russians) you'd see it very clearly - never mind the countless pages of documented planned aggression against Russia, to "deconstruct" Russia.
Another thing not realized by many is that our foreign policy and domestic policy is intertwined.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
In short, what exactly is Putin trying to accomplish by invading the Ukraine? Natural resources, strategic ports? Sorry if I'm way off.
Think 3 or 4 steps ahead.
Today Ukraine. Tomorrow, the world, to one extent or another perhaps. Who knows what Putin's long term geopolitical intentions are.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-30-14, 12:33
That's delusional logic that flies in the face of US and NATO foreign policy that has been in the public record for over 80 years.
Great. You're of Polish extraction.
So is Zbigniew Brzezinski. Have you STUDIED his work?
I am going to guess NO, you've not.
NATO's role ceased to be once the USSR collapsed. So why the lying and subterfuge? Re: we promised not to extend NATO into the former Soviet Republics and that is exactly what we have done. But some of you are either wholly ignorant of details or are delusional. If the roles were reversed (we were the Russians) you'd see it very clearly - never mind the countless pages of documented planned aggression against Russia, to "deconstruct" Russia.
Another thing not realized by many is that our foreign policy and domestic policy is intertwined.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Are you an American or do you work for RT news?
Are you an American or do you work for RT news?
Your response proves that you really don't grasp what's going on.
Enjoy your delusion.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-30-14, 12:58
Your response proves that you really don't grasp what's going on.
Enjoy your delusion.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Welcome to my ignore list, current seating at 'One'. If I detect you rectal-cranial inversion has passed, you may be re-instated.
Oh, and change the flag on your avatar.
Yes, let's blame ourselves! After all it simply must be our fault, just like rampant black crime.
You should be ashamed to say you bought into that simpleton tripe above. Russia has an agenda that extends far beyond Ukraine. Pay attention to reality.
Well, I have to ask, who backed the overthrow to the former Ukrainian Gov't? The U.S. It backfired because they(U.S. Gov't) made the classic mistake of thinking they could control the new Gov't they put in place, Well, they couldn't, and now the whole thing spun out of control. As far as Russia goes.. I could care less if they take the Ukraine, You think Putin wants the Ukraine? For what? Then he'll have to feed those people and he's got enough problems feeding his own. He got want he wanted when he took Crimea. And where's Russia going to get the money to fund another war? Their economy is in worse shape than ours. I'm sorry, But I don't believe half the tripe passing as "news" about the Ukraine.. We still don't have any business there, and, If any body thinks the Ukraine is worth fighting a war over, by all means sign up and go..
MountainRaven
08-30-14, 20:25
Well, I have to ask, who backed the overthrow to the former Ukrainian Gov't? The U.S. It backfired because they(U.S. Gov't) made the classic mistake of thinking they could control the new Gov't they put in place, Well, they couldn't, and now the whole thing spun out of control. As far as Russia goes.. I could care less if they take the Ukraine, You think Putin wants the Ukraine? For what? Then he'll have to feed those people and he's got enough problems feeding his own. He got want he wanted when he took Crimea. And where's Russia going to get the money to fund another war? Their economy is in worse shape than ours. I'm sorry, But I don't believe half the tripe passing as "news" about the Ukraine.. We still don't have any business there, and, If any body thinks the Ukraine is worth fighting a war over, by all means sign up and go..
Why would Putin want Ukraine?
Same reason as Hitler: Food. Ukraine is the breadbasket of Eastern Europe. Asking why somebody would want Ukraine is like asking why - in a post-United States America - the East Coast Alliance, California Coalition, and the United States of Mexico-Texas would squabble over the Mid-West.
My question for the tinfoil crowd is this: What does NATO gain from breaking up Russia?
I mean, I get why the Russians aren't fond of a NATO-aligned Ukraine. I understand that the Cold War was fought between one superpower seeking to contain another, while the latter tried desperately to build as large a buffer zone as possible, fearing that the first superpower wanted to conquer it with both superpowers basically acting straight into each other's preconceived notions of what the other side wanted (to take over the world).
I near as I can figure, the West wants to protect a budding democratic regime in Ukraine and to stymie the imperial ambitions of Uncle Vlad. And Uncle Vlad wants desperately to maintain a buffer between his country and the West. With the subsequent result that both sides - once again - must play straight into each other's preconceived notions of what the other will do.
Neither side is evil - despite what the media and the tinfoil wearers want us to think. We're just engaged in a reenactment of the Cold War (which may or may not have ever ended, given that we've succeeded in encroaching ever more on Russian stomping grounds since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact).
DreadPirateMoyer
08-30-14, 20:38
We spend $5 billion to destabilize the place. They pay snipers to shoot randomly at Maidan and hire thugs to attack the local police and somehow "Russia started it..."
LOL!!!
Russia has not invaded anything despite Kiev making the claim and backing off of it weekly for months now. I guess his Jedi Mindtrick skills are good because some buy it.
Why is THE WEST so hellbent on surrounding Russia with NATO bases? THAT should be the herd of elephants in the living room but escapes many.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Wow, I didn't know M4C's little corner of the internet was important enough to have a Kremlin-paid troll personally involved in a propagandastic disinformation campaign. Nice!
Wow, I didn't know M4C's little corner of the internet was important enough to have a Kremlin-paid troll personally involved in a propagandastic disinformation campaign. Nice!
It takes a true troll to accuse someone of something you know so little about.
Continue with your mainstream media swill. It's really "working" as we run our economy and military into the ground.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Why would Putin want Ukraine?
Same reason as Hitler: Food. Ukraine is the breadbasket of Eastern Europe. Asking why somebody would want Ukraine is like asking why - in a post-United States America - the East Coast Alliance, California Coalition, and the United States of Mexico-Texas would squabble over the Mid-West.
My question for the tinfoil crowd is this: What does NATO gain from breaking up Russia?
I mean, I get why the Russians aren't fond of a NATO-aligned Ukraine. I understand that the Cold War was fought between one superpower seeking to contain another, while the latter tried desperately to build as large a buffer zone as possible, fearing that the first superpower wanted to conquer it with both superpowers basically acting straight into each other's preconceived notions of what the other side wanted (to take over the world).
I near as I can figure, the West wants to protect a budding democratic regime in Ukraine and to stymie the imperial ambitions of Uncle Vlad. And Uncle Vlad wants desperately to maintain a buffer between his country and the West. With the subsequent result that both sides - once again - must play straight into each other's preconceived notions of what the other will do.
Neither side is evil - despite what the media and the tinfoil wearers want us to think. We're just engaged in a reenactment of the Cold War (which may or may not have ever ended, given that we've succeeded in encroaching ever more on Russian stomping grounds since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact).
I've not seen any "imperial ambitions" from Russia but NATO and the West are continuing on with their "Full Spectrum Dominance" agenda. Look up the term.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Why would Putin want Ukraine?
Same reason as Hitler: Food. Ukraine is the breadbasket of Eastern Europe. Asking why somebody would want Ukraine is like asking why - in a post-United States America - the East Coast Alliance, California Coalition, and the United States of Mexico-Texas would squabble over the Mid-West.
My question for the tinfoil crowd is this: What does NATO gain from breaking up Russia?
I mean, I get why the Russians aren't fond of a NATO-aligned Ukraine. I understand that the Cold War was fought between one superpower seeking to contain another, while the latter tried desperately to build as large a buffer zone as possible, fearing that the first superpower wanted to conquer it with both superpowers basically acting straight into each other's preconceived notions of what the other side wanted (to take over the world).
I near as I can figure, the West wants to protect a budding democratic regime in Ukraine and to stymie the imperial ambitions of Uncle Vlad. And Uncle Vlad wants desperately to maintain a buffer between his country and the West. With the subsequent result that both sides - once again - must play straight into each other's preconceived notions of what the other will do.
Neither side is evil - despite what the media and the tinfoil wearers want us to think. We're just engaged in a reenactment of the Cold War (which may or may not have ever ended, given that we've succeeded in encroaching ever more on Russian stomping grounds since the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact).
Neither side being evil, then why not let the Ukrainian people decide what they want to do? I mean, why not get a cease-fire between the two sides, and agree to a election as to whether or not to form 2 countries, Eastern Ukraine/Western Ukraine, Let all the interested parties moniter the election, and keep it honest, and if the Ukrainian citizens decide to split up then, let them.. Putin would no doubt get Eastern Ukraine and the west would get Western Ukraine. Honestly nobody here gets a real bargin... The EU, and the IMF would have to support Western Ukraine for years to come.. As would the Russians with Eastern Ukraine One thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is that the Ukraine and Russia have been intertwined for hundreds of years, I have trouble seeing how the U.S.'s involvement is much different than the Russian's involvement in Cuban missile crisis.... We haven't installed the missiles yet, but we'd (U.S. Gov't) would sure like to..
Neither side being evil, then why not let the Ukrainian people decide what they want to do? I mean, why not get a cease-fire between the two sides, and agree to a election as to whether or not to form 2 countries, Eastern Ukraine/Western Ukraine, Let all the interested parties moniter the election, and keep it honest, and if the Ukrainian citizens decide to split up then, let them.. Putin would no doubt get Eastern Ukraine and the west would get Western Ukraine. Honestly nobody here gets a real bargin... The EU, and the IMF would have to support Western Ukraine for years to come.. As would the Russians with Eastern Ukraine One thing that bothers me about this whole thing, is that the Ukraine and Russia have been intertwined for hundreds of years, I have trouble seeing how the U.S.'s involvement is much different than the Russian's involvement in Cuban missile crisis.... We haven't installed the missiles yet, but we'd (U.S. Gov't) would sure like to..
Correct.
It's about surrounding Russia with NATO bases with the Ballistic Missile Defense system which is part of an OFFENSIVE SYSTEM - to reduce their capacity to respond to ICBMs...
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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
BoringGuy45
08-30-14, 23:36
Everything is America's fault. Global warming, Putin's aggression into Ukraine, ISIS, 9/11, every other war currently being fought, every genocide including the Holocaust (which was somehow a scheme for getting an oil pipeline deal) the sinking of the Titanic, the fall of the Roman Empire, and the extinction of the dinosaurs. America has been on the wrong side of every single war, including the Revolutionary War and WWII, and generally, America sucks, has never had any redeeming qualities, and with the exception of Thomas Jefferson and anyone who listens to Alex Jones, has never had a single good person ever inhabit its borders. :rolleyes:
MountainRaven
08-30-14, 23:56
Correct.
It's about surrounding Russia with NATO bases with the Ballistic Missile Defense system which is part of an OFFENSIVE SYSTEM - to reduce their capacity to respond to ICBMs...
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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Because nuking Russia is high on NATO's to-do list.
SeriousStudent
08-30-14, 23:57
Now that everybody is done insulting each other, I guess we're done with the thread as well.
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