My 1st Build (Just a Parts List)

[Spartan65]

I made a couple of lists of parts at today's current prices, I value all opinions good or bad so I am putting them up for critics and cynics.


Build 1



YHM 16" FLUTED, MELONITE QPQ (1:9) $216.75

Spike’s Tactical M4 flat top upper receiver Forward Assit and Ejection port cover incld' $115.00

BCM Low Profile Gas Block (steel with set screws) 750 $44.95

BCMGUNFIGHTER Ambidextrous Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod A44 (Ambi) $69.95

BCM Gas Tube - Mid Length $13.00

Palmetto State Armory 5.56 Premium Full Auto Bolt Carrier Group $109.99

Stag 3G Compensator + 2x Crush Washers $72.00

VRS™ T 13.5" Free-Floating Handguard $189.00

Spike's Tactical Pirate Lower $115.00

FFL Transfer for Lower $50.00
????
Spike’s Tactical Enhanced LPK $169.95

Spike's Tactical Carbine Buffer Assembly Kit Mil-Spec $69.95

The MOE Fixed Carbine Stock – Mil-Spec * $29.95



2nd List


"Stag Arms 18"" 5.56 Fluted Barrel Assembly ER Shaw Barrel
Chamber: 5.56 NATO (The barrel assembly will also shoot .223 ammunition)
Length: 18""
Diameter at the gas port: .750""
Barrel Threading: 1/2 x 28
Barrel Profile: Heavy barrel
Barrel Material: 410 Stainless Steel
Twist Rate: 1/8
Bore & Barrel Lining: None
Barrel Coating: None
Sight: Low profile gas block
Handguard: 15"" free foat Samson Evolution modular handguard
Gas System: Rifle length direct impingement
Muzzle Device: Stag 3G compensator" $530.00


Lower (Multi) Forged Pirate - Bullet Markings $115.00

Upper Receiver - Forged M4 Flat Top (Multi Cal) $115.00

Lower Kit - Spike's Enhanced Parts Kit $169.95

Bolt Carrier Group - Spike's Standard Phosphate HPT/MPI M16 BCG $149.95

Spike's Carbine Buffer Assembly Kit $69.95

MOE® Fixed Carbine Stock – Mil-Spec Model $29.95

BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) Mod 4 (MEDIUM) Latch $44.95



I'm looking to Shoot some local 3gun, most of the shooters I see on YouTube are using 18 inch barrel, I already have my Benelli M4 and a Glock 21 2nd Gen. The Glock has been with me the longest, the M4 was a last years tax returns. I'm not mister money bags, but I do believe in money well spent so your opinions do hold weight. I had an earlier thread about YHM and I was able to fire one at Calibers down in ABQ. Needless to say I am still looking.

Thank you for your time.

[Col_Crocs]

I made a couple of lists of parts at today's current prices, I value all opinions good or bad so I am putting them up for critics and cynics.


Build 1



YHM 16" FLUTED, MELONITE QPQ (1:9) $216.75
Stay away from anything YHM, esp something critical like a barrel. If you're buying this for the melonite, get a Sionics barrel instead. Much cheaper and lightyears ahead in quality.
Spike’s Tactical M4 flat top upper receiver Forward Assit and Ejection port cover incld' $115.00
No experience with spikes but BCM's is hard to beat.
BCM Low Profile Gas Block (steel with set screws) 750 $44.95

BCMGUNFIGHTER Ambidextrous Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) w/ Mod A44 (Ambi) $69.95

BCM Gas Tube - Mid Length $13.00

Palmetto State Armory 5.56 Premium Full Auto Bolt Carrier Group $109.99
No experience with this either but, again, a critical component and I would spend a little more on a BCM.
Stag 3G Compensator + 2x Crush Washers $72.00

VRS™ T 13.5" Free-Floating Handguard $189.00

Spike's Tactical Pirate Lower $115.00

FFL Transfer for Lower $50.00
????
Spike’s Tactical Enhanced LPK $169.95
Get a Colt LPK from grant and an ALG trigger group instead.
Spike's Tactical Carbine Buffer Assembly Kit Mil-Spec $69.95
Make sure you don't get their ST-2 buffer, or even better, get a Vltor A5 kit
The MOE Fixed Carbine Stock – Mil-Spec * $29.95



2nd List


"Stag Arms 18"" 5.56 Fluted Barrel Assembly ER Shaw Barrel
Chamber: 5.56 NATO (The barrel assembly will also shoot .223 ammunition)
Length: 18""
Diameter at the gas port: .750""
Barrel Threading: 1/2 x 28
Barrel Profile: Heavy barrel
Barrel Material: 410 Stainless Steel
Twist Rate: 1/8
Bore & Barrel Lining: None
Barrel Coating: None
Sight: Low profile gas block
Handguard: 15"" free foat Samson Evolution modular handguard
Gas System: Rifle length direct impingement
Muzzle Device: Stag 3G compensator" $530.00


Lower (Multi) Forged Pirate - Bullet Markings $115.00

Upper Receiver - Forged M4 Flat Top (Multi Cal) $115.00

Lower Kit - Spike's Enhanced Parts Kit $169.95

Bolt Carrier Group - Spike's Standard Phosphate HPT/MPI M16 BCG $149.95

Spike's Carbine Buffer Assembly Kit $69.95

MOE® Fixed Carbine Stock – Mil-Spec Model $29.95

BCMGUNFIGHTER Charging Handle (5.56mm/.223) Mod 4 (MEDIUM) Latch $44.95



I'm looking to Shoot some local 3gun, most of the shooters I see on YouTube are using 18 inch barrel, I already have my Benelli M4 and a Glock 21 2nd Gen. The Glock has been with me the longest, the M4 was a last years tax returns. I'm not mister money bags, but I do believe in money well spent so your opinions do hold weight. I had an earlier thread about YHM and I was able to fire one at Calibers down in ABQ. Needless to say I am still looking.

Thank you for your time.
See comments in bold.

[^Rb]

First of all, you posted 2 lists with a bunch of random parts & $ signs, but no totals on either, and no rhyme/reason why you selected any of the components. Nobody is going to add it all up for you, so maybe start there if you're so inclined to choose between the two?

If you're building a gaming gun on a budget, spend money on the following:

- Rainier Select 18" barrel
- a quality lower
- rifle-length gas-system (A2 extension) or VLTOR A5 system
- Geissele trigger (G2S, if you're on a budget)
- a VERY high quality upper (VLTOR, BCM, etc.)
- quality BCG (For the $$, you can't really beat a BCM right now)
- lightest, quality rail you can afford

Sorry for being a snob, but YHM barrels, Stag compensators, Spikes "enhanced" lower parts kits, and carbine receiver extensions don't belong on a dedicated 3-Gun rig.

[firefighter37]

I agree with what col_crocs, but would I recommend the the Vltor A5 buffer system.
^Rb Beat me to it...

[Zim]

Croc's comments are spot on. I'll third the VLTOR A5 recommendation. The two lists you have are full of junk parts for key components. Do a lot more research before you waste a pile of money.

[Reconinforce]

Shoot some pics up once done.

[Travis B]

Beating a dead horse here but please search on here for threads regarding quality parts and which manufacturers to avoid. These topics have been covered ad nauseam.

[TehLlama]

Why have two extensive parts list outlining two rifles that can be each conclusively outperformed by a single rifle which does both tasks better?

Get one lower that's good, put a Colt LPK in it, Geissele G2S Trigger (AIM Surplus ran an amazing deal on those), VLTOR A5 kit, and call that good.
Alternative option - call Grant at G&R Tactical, he can build you a complete BCM-A5/G2S lower for almost the same cost, less if it's based off a blemished lower.
Get a BCM KMR Recce Upper (Stainless 16" barrel, 13" KMR), which comes with a free BCG right now. Add charging handle, pick up some MBUS, and start looking for a low powered variable optic that handles all these tasks well. If not, get a ELW 16" and run match ammo through it, which will still likely outperform that Stag barrel, but if you're already looking at heavy piles of junk for three gun, then the Recce is the answer.

FWIW, I'm local for you, so I can follow up with some other questions (though I don't waste much time at calibers unless my other job is paying range fees). You can do a lot better for the money, even my old (to me obsolete) uppers would outperform anything you've got listed there.

[Spartan65]

I'm trying to get my fore guard out as far as possible to the end of the barrel as possible, it fit my stature and ergonomics. Each build either has a 16 barrel with a 13.5 fore guard or a 18 inch barrel with a 15 inch fore guard. Like the post says these are today's current prices and I forgot to state what is in stock. BCM is giving away BCG with all upper purchases so they are on back order. A Colt LPK lowest price I found was 162.00, I chose the Spykes for the boron coated trigger group and the ambi safety selector. I'm Staying with the Spykes Callico Jack (Pirate) lower cause I am just that Arrrrrr. The Stag Barrel is made for them by ER Shaw, it's the same barrel as their out of the box 3GL that team Stag is doing well with in National 3G competition. I was at calibers in NM to check out a Yankee Hill Machine that was being sold on Armslist. I won't buy something unless I've held it.
I'm going to be shooting in Tactical 3G with Open Iron Sights. I'll probably go with Daniel Defense fixed sights, I can always use them to lower third co-witness with an Aim-Point Scout later.
I'm Still on the fence about which barrel length to get 16 or 18. I know the 18 will have a better sight radius, possibly more accurate. But having a carbine size rifle has been my desire after shooting shooting 20 inch A2s in CMP.

[vicious_cb]

Dont skimp out on the most critical components of the rifle, the barrel and the bolt carrier. Your list sounds like something the clerk at the local gun shop suggested(not a good thing). I suggest doing more research around here before you drop the money on a new rifle.

[vicious_cb]

I'm trying to get my fore guard out as far as possible to the end of the barrel as possible, it fit my stature and ergonomics. Each build either has a 16 barrel with a 13.5 fore guard or a 18 inch barrel with a 15 inch fore guard. Like the post says these are today's current prices and I forgot to state what is in stock. BCM is giving away BCG with all upper purchases so they are on back order. A Colt LPK lowest price I found was 162.00, I chose the Spykes for the boron coated trigger group and the ambi safety selector. I'm Staying with the Spykes Callico Jack (Pirate) lower cause I am just that Arrrrrr. The Stag Barrel is made for them by ER Shaw, it's the same barrel as their out of the box 3GL that team Stag is doing well with in National 3G competition. I was at calibers in NM to check out a Yankee Hill Machine that was being sold on Armslist. I won't buy something unless I've held it.
I'm going to be shooting in Tactical 3G with Open Iron Sights. I'll probably go with Daniel Defense fixed sights, I can always use them to lower third co-witness with an Aim-Point Scout later.
I'm Still on the fence about which barrel length to get 16 or 18. I know the 18 will have a better sight radius, possibly more accurate. But having a carbine size rifle has been my desire after shooting shooting 20 inch A2s in CMP.

I just looked up what was in the Spikes "enhanced" lower parts kit and I almost laughed.


Features:
KNS Gen II Mod II Anti-Rotation pins
Spike’s Billet Trigger Guard
Ergo Grip
ST Battle Trigger
Ambi Safety Selector
Included

Spike's Billet Trigger guard w/Set screw
KNS Gen II Mod II Anti-Rotation pins
Ergo Grip with Spike’s logo
ST Battle trigger with Nickel Boron Coated Mil-Spec Single Stage Trigger, Disconnect, and Rounded hammer
Ambi Safety Selector
Mil-Spec bolt catch, mag catch, and mag catch button
Mil-Spec detents, plungers, pins, and springs
Quality Spiral roll pins for trigger guard and bolt catch
1/4 Allen screw with washer for grip
Spike's Tactical Lifetime Warranty

I would seriously pay to NOT have KNS pins or the (not so)ergo grip installed in my lower. If you really want an enhanced milspec trigger get an ALG.

[Col_Crocs]

I just looked up what was in the Spikes "enhanced" lower parts kit and I almost laughed.

As did I.
OP: Here you go. $60, plus, your choice of top quality triggers.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=SPK99796
We strongly urge you to stay away from YHM, handled, seen or otherwise. I'll take a Sionics that I've only seen a 2 inch picture of, over a YHM held 50 times, any day.

[jayfl]

I'm trying to get my fore guard out as far as possible to the end of the barrel as possible, it fit my stature and ergonomics.

I'm 6'6" and a 13.5" rail is more than enough for me but whatever floats your boat.


BCM is giving away BCG with all upper purchases so they are on back order.

They're worth waiting for.


I won't buy something unless I've held it.

That's a little ridiculous. I'd scrap that list and go with TehLlama's proposed G&R build. Grant can set you up with something much more cost effective.

[sig1473]

I would seriously pay to NOT have KNS pins or the (not so)ergo grip install in my lower. If you really want an enhanced milspec trigger get an ALG.

I have an ALG ACT and a Spike's NiB BTS. Blindfolded I can tell zero difference between the two. I also have 2 ALG QMS triggers on my Noveskes. On that note, there is nothing wrong with Spike's NiB trigger groups. I'm sure I will get flamed, but I could give 2 craps. YMMV

[Shao]

Build 1



I went ahead and did the math because it's 4AM over here, my fiancee's still asleep in the same room, and I'm wide awake and bored. Your upper sans charging handle for this build would be $760.69. As many have stated, the barrel is inferior and other parts questionable. For the same cost you could buy a complete BCM upper that will have a cold hammer forged barrel and BCM BCG... and on the plus side, since this is your first build, you can focus on the lower - I built four lowers and did a lot of upper work before I attempted a complete upper build. They're two different beasts. BCM has a warranty and it will most assuredly work out of the box. You could also pick up a DDM4v7 complete upper for around the same price if you like Daniel Defense better.




2nd List



Another questionable barrel and this list doesn't go into as much depth on what parts you'd be using. Your AR would weigh a ton as well. For $530 I would go PSA or something. Don't build an 18" as your first gun, get a 16" like a normal person. Buy the 18" if you find yourself needing a few extra fps.

Basically, if this is your first build, buy a pre-made upper and just build the lower. It's hard to screw up a lower, but really easy to boff up an upper. The cost savings just aren't there and unless you get a kick out of manual labor and diagnosing problems, you'll save yourself a lot of headaches that way.

Don't build based on looks - especially if this is your first AR. Reliability, function, accuracy, and wear life all trump aesthetics. You can always play dress up later. Start with a solid foundation.

EDIT: The VLTOR A5 kit is cool and a A2 setup would likely be just as reliable if not more so, but since this is your first rifle, I would go with a standard carbine RE and buy a variety of buffer weights. You'll learn a lot about what works and what doesn't, and being able to diagnose such issues is important in my book. I hate to go all apocalyptic, but if the SHTF and a part of your A5 system goes tits up, good luck finding replacement parts in the field. With a standard carbine RE, you can easily scavenge parts from 99% of the ARs that are already out there.

[scooter22]

Why have two extensive parts list outlining two rifles that can be each conclusively outperformed by a single rifle which does both tasks better?

Get one lower that's good, put a Colt LPK in it, Geissele G2S Trigger (AIM Surplus ran an amazing deal on those), VLTOR A5 kit, and call that good.
Alternative option - call Grant at G&R Tactical, he can build you a complete BCM-A5/G2S lower for almost the same cost, less if it's based off a blemished lower.
Get a BCM KMR Recce Upper (Stainless 16" barrel, 13" KMR), which comes with a free BCG right now. Add charging handle, pick up some MBUS, and start looking for a low powered variable optic that handles all these tasks well. If not, get a ELW 16" and run match ammo through it, which will still likely outperform that Stag barrel, but if you're already looking at heavy piles of junk for three gun, then the Recce is the answer.

FWIW, I'm local for you, so I can follow up with some other questions (though I don't waste much time at calibers unless my other job is paying range fees). You can do a lot better for the money, even my old (to me obsolete) uppers would outperform anything you've got listed there.

This.

You will not regret following any of the above advice.

If you want a quality rifle, don't skimp out on crap and snake oil.


I have an ALG ACT and a Spike's NiB BTS. Blindfolded I can tell zero difference between the two. I also have 2 ALG QMS triggers on my Noveskes. On that note, there is nothing wrong with Spike's NiB trigger groups. I'm sure I will get flamed, but I could give 2 craps. YMMV

I have also had a Spike's FCG, and it felt just like an ALG ACT.

However, I am NOT condoning that you waste money on 'Spike's Enhanced LPK'.

[Zim]

I'm trying to get my fore guard out as far as possible to the end of the barrel as possible, it fit my stature and ergonomics. Each build either has a 16 barrel with a 13.5 fore guard or a 18 inch barrel with a 15 inch fore guard.

This probably isn't necessary unless you're 6'8." Do you lock your support elbow while you shoot?


Like the post says these are today's current prices and I forgot to state what is in stock. BCM is giving away BCG with all upper purchases so they are on back order.

Being impatient isn't a good excuse to buy sub-standard parts. BCM has been restocking their upper receiver groups regularly. It's worth it to wait.


A Colt LPK lowest price I found was 162.00, I chose the Spykes for the boron coated trigger group and the ambi safety selector.

G&R LPK with an ALG-ACT (or QMS). There's a lot of junk in the Spikes kit.


I'm Staying with the Spykes Callico Jack (Pirate) lower cause I am just that Arrrrrr.

..........okay


The Stag Barrel is made for them by ER Shaw, it's the same barrel as their out of the box 3GL that team Stag is doing well with in National 3G competition.

Don't settle on junk because the "cool kids" use it. Go with a barrel from a known good manufacturer, or just buy a BCM complete upper.


I was at calibers in NM to check out a Yankee Hill Machine that was being sold on Armslist. I won't buy something unless I've held it.

That just seems ignorant.


I'm going to be shooting in Tactical 3G with Open Iron Sights. I'll probably go with Daniel Defense fixed sights, I can always use them to lower third co-witness with an Aim-Point Scout later.

The DD fixed sights are really nice.


I'm Still on the fence about which barrel length to get 16 or 18. I know the 18 will have a better sight radius, possibly more accurate. But having a carbine size rifle has been my desire after shooting shooting 20 inch A2s in CMP.

Go with a 16" barrel for your first rifle. Buy a complete upper from BCM. If you really want to build your own later, you'll have a better idea of how it should run.

[^Rb]

Also, who the hell shoots 3-G with a Glock 21 ?!?! LOL

[3ACR_Scout]

FFL Transfer for Lower $50.00 ????
This is minor in the grand scheme of all the good comments above, but I just wanted to make sure your local FFL isn't charging you $50 for a transfer alone. If this is your total estimate for shipping and transfer of the lower, that's about average - most dealers charge about $25, although I found a local one that charges $17, which I plan to use in the future.

Dave

[Spartan65]

Also, who the hell shoots 3-G with a Glock 21 ?!?! LOL

It will work for me, plus I'm just starting out. My Glock and I are dead on target. After I sort out my build I'll start saving for either a Wilson or a STI

[Spartan65]

This probably isn't necessary unless you're 6'8." Do you lock your support elbow while you shoot?



Being impatient isn't a good excuse to buy sub-standard parts. BCM has been restocking their upper receiver groups regularly. It's worth it to wait.



G&R LPK with an ALG-ACT (or QMS). There's a lot of junk in the Spikes kit.



..........okay



Don't settle on junk because the "cool kids" use it. Go with a barrel from a known good manufacturer, or just buy a BCM complete upper.



That just seems ignorant.



The DD fixed sights are really nice.



Go with a 16" barrel for your first rifle. Buy a complete upper from BCM. If you really want to build your own later, you'll have a better idea of how it should run.

The BCM product is great, except they don't have the configuration I want 16" barrel with at least a 13.5 hand guard or an 18" barrel with a 15" hand guard. They don't have it in stock. And when I called there is no eta.

I do lock my arm cause I pivot with my knees.

[Zim]

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16-BFH-KMR13

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16-BFH-KMR13

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16ELWF-KMR13

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16-KMR13

All in stock.

Edit because of your edit: Locking your elbow out can lead to problems. Pivoting with your knees has nothing to do with your elbow.

[Spartan65]

So far Bud's guns has the lowest price in a DDv7 $1,285.00 + sights at $103.00
I don't want a LW barrel either.
As far as barrels go ER Shaw builds great barrels for Stag and the YHM barrels are CHF but when I called them they didn't want to identify who they came from prior to them fluting them.

[teutonicpolymer]

Some points:
People do not like Spike's here but I don't have strong feelings either way. I had one of their uppers for a period of time and it was fine, gas key was staked decently and everything looked okay. For a receiver don't worry about it, receivers are most likely not made by Spike's anyways, but another company which supplies other companies

You probably don't want to shoot irons. Save money and get a Burris Tac30 or Mtac instead

The Stag barrel is probably fine but you could instead go with something more popular like a Nordic, White Oak Armament, or Criterion barrel instead

Just get an A2 stock set (better yet, get the stock set with ALG trigger lower parts kit from White Oak Armament). The people telling you to get an A5 stock set have no idea what the **** they're talking about... If you're on a budget dumping a bunch of money into low yield stuff like an A5 over A2 makes no sense whatsoever.

Do yourself a favor and get a Miculek muzzle brake. It is cheap and highly effective, you probably won't do much better until you go over $100 and even then the Miculek is still a solid contender

GET AN 18" BARREL!!!! (with rifle length gas) The recoil impulse makes this a no brainer. You should not have problems with reliability either (unless you get the Nordic which has a smaller gas port and is meant to be a fixed reduced gas/reduced felt recoil solution and just might not work with certain weak loads)

I would not buy a prebuilt upper but that is just me. I would be building if this were for 3 gun. That being said if I had more money I would probably buy a BCM 20" upper if the bcg deal is still going.

Handguard selection is a matter of personal choice. I use the full length on 15" handguards and I am 6'.

Uppers are not hard to build at all, but you do need more specialized tools than you would need for a lower. A vice is almost necessary.

[Zim]

You do understand that the LW and Government profile is the same under the handguard, right? That the additional weight in front of the gas block does absolutely nothing for you?

[Zim]

A vice is almost necessary.

How do you propose anyone properly torque a barrel nut without a vice, exactly?

[teutonicpolymer]

How do you propose anyone properly torque a barrel nut without a vice, exactly?

There are creative people out there
How wise is it to not use a vice? Probably not very, but I am sure someone has done it

[Zim]

If you know it's bad advice, don't offer it.

[Travis B]

How do you propose anyone properly torque a barrel nut without a vice, exactly?

Park your truck on top of the upper and it's not going anywhere! Torque away!

[teutonicpolymer]

If you know it's bad advice, don't offer it.


It seems like you're just trying to find something to pick at here

[Zim]

Go install a barrel using your own advice and get back to us.

[teutonicpolymer]

Go install a barrel using your own advice and get back to us.

So basically you're upset that I said your recommendation(s) suck so now you're putting words in my mouth in an attempt to discredit me

Where did I recommend not doing it with a vice?

[Spartan65]

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16-BFH-KMR13

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16-BFH-KMR13

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16ELWF-KMR13

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=BCM-URG-MID-16-KMR13

All in stock.

Edit because of your edit: Locking your elbow out can lead to problems. Pivoting with your knees has nothing to do with your elbow.

It's my cross, my whole left arm is fail

[Zim]

So basically you're upset that I said your recommendation(s) suck so now you're putting words in my mouth in an attempt to discredit me

Where did I recommend not doing it with a vice? How does someone get that from "You essentially need a vice"

"Almost" and "essentially" have two very different meanings. I took you at your word, guy, and that word was very wrong. I'm done feeding you now.

[MSpera]

I sold my Yankee Hill rifle and now have a DDM4V7 (mid-length gas lightweight barrel) because of what I read and researched on this site.

The DD is over a pound lighter than the YHM garbage, more reliable, more accurate, and a hell of a lot nicer to hold out in front of you. I have a T1 on mine and can ring steel at 200 yards while standing. It's my 3 gun and HD rifle now.

You would be wise to dump the YHM idea and get something like we are suggesting.

[teutonicpolymer]

"Almost" and "essentially" have two very different meanings. I took you at your word, guy, and that word was very wrong. I'm done feeding you now.

It's nice that you focused on word choice of this rather than defending your shit recommendation of an A5 stock assembly on a budget build

[Voodoochild]

Zim & teutonicpolymer you two need to either hug it out or part ways from this thread. This will not turn into a pissing contest so shake em off and separate.

[Spartan65]

I sold my Yankee Hill rifle and now have a DDM4V7 (mid-length gas lightweight barrel) because of what I read and researched on this site.

The DD is over a pound lighter than the YHM garbage, more reliable, more accurate, and a hell of a lot nicer to hold out in front of you. I have a T1 on mine and can ring steel at 200 yards while standing. It's my 3 gun and HD rifle now.

You would be wise to dump the YHM idea and get something like we are suggesting.

I'll probably do that,
I never meant to open worms in this post, just opinions. A shame some are arguing. I've taken plenty if criticism here. It doesn't kill me only makes me determined.

[El Cid]

It's my cross, my whole left arm is fail

What exactly does that mean? Were you injured? If so, then adapt and use what works. But when we see people locking their support elbow, it makes many of us think of former Coasties with faux operator beards. Your signature line and avatatar imply you are or were a Marine. US Marines are some of the greatest riflemen the planet has seen. But I don't believe they teach locking the elbow.

That said, I have long arms and prefer 15" handguards. You have to find what works for you in terms of dimensions, but the advice you've been given is worth taking and comes from many people who have already learned the expensive lessons so new shooters don't need to.

[Shiz]

couple suggestions to support what has already been said.

If you do a NiB trigger, the reason to choose ALG instead of spikes is that Geiselle tunes the ALG. They are great triggers. Not saying the Spikes won't work, but You will be happier with the ALG.

Quality in, and you will not regret it. Even if it takes a little longer to save and build.

[Spartan65]

I have a injury to my left bicep, it hurts less to extend it than bunch it up. I do real well shooting open sites on just about any rifle I pick up, I am a Marine and adapt and will overcome my arm issue. I do have relatively long arms. I have held a lot of different rifles lately and I feel like I have a better purchase on fore guards that are more round than square. But that's cause I can only grip about 60-70% says the VA.

I guess the guys at Calibers swayed me from the LW barrel on the v7, But I'll research it more.

[Spartan65]

$1,260.00 Plus FFL this is about comfortable with me.
Daniel Defense V7 (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/716008661)

[^Rb]

I'm so confused. Are you looking for an all-around carbine or are you looking for a purpose-built 3-Gun rig? If the former, you can't go wrong with a Daniel Defense (obviously). However, if you're end-goal is to be as efficient/accurate as possible in a gun-gaming environment, you will be much better served building a gun with the quality/reputable parts that have been suggested to you in this thread.

I hope you have deep pockets and/or reload, because shooting your .45 in handgun stages is going to get old, really fast.

[Spartan65]

I Buy a couple of .45 boxes a week and shoot two to three times a month 100 rounds each time, even with that I'd say I have enough brass to last a lifetime, and at least two feet high and deep in the ammo safe. Shooting a .45 will never get old for me. I just wish I had the money for a 41 with a longer sight radius then I wouldn't need a fly swatter...
Ultimately my goal is to give the limited class a try and and if that don't work at least I'll get out and enjoy time shooting. I've had my 21 since 97-98 I think I bought it after my wife bailed or before I don't remember. But it works well for me and I can hit anything I point it at.
Some day I may even indulge in a 1911, it would have to be a double stack. I carried the .45 in the Corps on post etc.... We transitioned to the 92F and they were OK. I sold my Gen 1 17 to buy my 21 and she's been with me since.

[kremtok]

Is this your first personally owned AR or just the first you plan to assemble yourself? Because if you don't have one at all right now, you might be better off purchasing a complete rifle / carbine and using it for a while to help narrow down what works and what doesn't for your intended purpose.

[Spartan65]

I just watched a comparison on You Tube of these two triggers and now that I know that ALG mil spec triggers are made by Geiselle I can see where that make more sense. I got a chance to shoot a rifle in Raton with the 3Gun Geisele trigger, needless to say my finger had a stiffy all day.

[Spartan65]

I have an A2 that I shoot CMP with. I was thinking I'd like t build one of the new style rifles, but I'm not beyond conceding and buying one and just decking it out a bit. I know how to take it all apart and reassemble it, I even have all the right tools. I've even considered buying a couple of lowers just to have for the future. I know this I'm not an impatient man. Aside from the jostling going on in this forum, I appreciate everyone's input. And it's not bad having some guidance.

[kremtok]

I've even considered buying a couple of lowers just to have for the future. I know this I'm not an impatient man.

Given today's political climate and other factors that have made gun prices fluctuate wildly over the last 10 years, the first part of the above statement is a great idea. Especially considering the second part.

[TacticalMark]

If your going to be getting into 3 gun, I would build your own. Post #3 would be a good start. Remember quality where its important.

[TehLlama]

I guess the guys at Calibers swayed me from the LW barrel on the v7, But I'll research it more.

I haven't encountered anybody there with close to my knowledge base within ARs and modern service pistols, and I consider myself well below the level of expertise of others in this thread who have already replied (to be fair, I haven't interacted with any smithing staff they have there); if you have any sort of upper extremity injury you'll do well to run a lightweight upper, maybe with some weight on the barrel for precision/thermal reasons but any unneeded weight is bad - the LW V7 (or V11 - they just haven't gotten any stocked yet) would be preferables [for reference I run a V5LW, and with crap ammunition I'd still shoot top half of expert on a Table 1/2 qualification and monkey stomp anything issued for the Table3].

Hell, find a deal on a lower and LPK and I'll build it for you if you're trying to save money there. If you need to reference handguard lengths, I have rifles with 14", 13.5", 12.625", 12", 11" and other handguards, if you still want a 15" setup you can get that in a complete upper. Same deal with triggers (I don't have any ALG's, but I've only got 6 SSA's and 2 SSA-E's).

I'd still very heavily advise you to look at a BCM Recce/KMR upper and G2S or G2S-E trigger. It's within ounces of weight of the Govvy profiled V7, but those are tack driving capable barrels, and would only be at any sort of disadvantage to something utterly purpose built and tuned, and even then that difference is miniscule; that KMR Recce would be light enough to use as a general purpose rifle, accurate enough with 69gr/75gr/77gr or even 55gr SBK match to be a bench rifle, and for what you're otherwise looking at on price, getting one of those frees you up on budget to get a super-baller trigger (SSA-E/G2S-E is in range, close to the SD3G for pull weight but a bit more suited to general purpose/SDMR applications), set yourself up with top end parts and lowers (VLTOR A5/A5H2), and have budget to put towards an optic.
Other option would be something like an MSTN custom build - get the 16" Noveske Intermediate Gassed/Taper profile from Wes, build it with a 15" NST Handguard, throw a MUR on it for bling points, and drive on from there - again a setup so baller it just happens to be great at 3G applications. There are too many good options to restrict yourself to what's local, or what a LGS that specializes in selling/renting handguns and hunting rifles.

[Spartan65]

Thank you @TehLlama, I'll get with you. I shoot my A2 out in Raton more than anywhere else but I'll figure our some time to get some more advise from you.

[firefighter37]

It's nice that you focused on word choice of this rather than defending your shit recommendation of an A5 stock assembly on a budget build

Where was this ever listed as a budget build?

[JBecker 72]

Honestly I think you would be fine with a 16" rifle and a 12.5" rail. And just to echo what others have said about BCM, I was looking for a 16" SOCOM upper from them last weekend, got on the email list, and Wednesday they came back in stock. Got a new upper with a free BCG and free Mod 0 comp for $459 shipped. It'll be here Tuesday. The current market isn't like it was 1.5 years ago and BCM gets stuff back in stock regularly. A little patience now will pay off in the long run.

[teutonicpolymer]

I have an A2 that I shoot CMP with. I was thinking I'd like t build one of the new style rifles, but I'm not beyond conceding and buying one and just decking it out a bit. I know how to take it all apart and reassemble it, I even have all the right tools. I've even considered buying a couple of lowers just to have for the future. I know this I'm not an impatient man. Aside from the jostling going on in this forum, I appreciate everyone's input. And it's not bad having some guidance.

If this A2 has a small pin receiver you should honestly consider just building a 3 gun upper with that (you can always do another lower later) and put the saved money towards an optic or 9mm pistol but that is just my opinion

[Spartan65]

Thank you for the advise, here is my A2 I purchased from the Civilian Marksmanship Program, It's not much to look at but I stay in the rings of B27 silhouette targets at 500 yards in Raton @ Whittington Center with MK262 rounds. I keep it just to keep up on my marksmanship. I put it on Armslist once, but changed my mind.
CMP A2 (http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s72/ziasol65/4%20Sale/BushmasterCMPA2_zps630a28fa.jpg)

[Spartan65]

I'm on the email list for a couple of different uppers, I'm patient we'll see what pops up.

[Iraqgunz]

This thread is making my head hurt. What exactly is the purpose again? I lost track with all the bullshit.

[Zim]

This thread is making my head hurt. What exactly is the purpose again? I lost track with all the bullshit.

First post says 3gun.

[Iraqgunz]

I know how to read . That's not what I meant. I mean, he has a list of stuff a lot of which is crap and the upper build makes no sense when there are some current factory upper offerings that will surpass his needs and be of much better quality.



First post says 3gun.

[Spartan65]

I was looking for the SS410 18inch (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-Rifle-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-w-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-missk-15.htm) it was out of stock. I decided to wait for it. The list I put up was just stuff I could find in stock, I'm going to wait for the BCM upper I wanted, I just hope the special going on now with the free BCG and 0 Mod Suppressor is still going.
This one is out of stock as well.18 inch KMR (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-SPR-KMR-KEYMOD-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-kmr15.htm)

[Zim]

Those are both really good choices.

[LostinKY]

I might suggest put together a BCM SS410 18" barrel.
I did and used a Seekins IRMT-3.
Sort of expensive but it shoots well.

[TacticalMark]

18" SS with 13" KMR in stock http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-18-SPR-KMR-KEYMOD-p/bcm-urg-18-ss410-kmr13.htm

[Spartan65]

I like that one but I would Need to change the hand guard, seeing the gas block is an eye sore for me.

[TehLlama]

Put the 15" KMR on it, and you're set. Worst case, buy the KMR15 separately, swap them (and keep the already mounted barrel nut in place, just the handguard itself), and sell the KMR13 as a complete setup.

[Spartan65]

That sounds like a plan

[Spartan65]

So the parts are finally stating to show up. This is going to be my Coyote gun

E.R. Shaw Barrel 18" Heavy profile Rifle Gas, Fluted SS410r
Stag Low Profile Gas Block .750
Gas Tube - Rifle Length TR-GTR
SJC Titan Compensator, .223 Stainless Steel Black Oxide finish
Spikes Lower (Multi) Forged Pirate - Bullet Markings
Stag A3 Flat Top upper
LaRue Tactical RISR™ / CTR Combo
Mil Spec Aftermarket Stock Kit
DPMS Steel Barrel Nut AR-15 Matte
Troy Industries Alpha Battle Rail Modular Free Float Handguard AR-15
Lower Parts Kit W/O Hammer, Trigger, Pistol Grip Part Number LRPK-SP
IWC QD End Plate
Advanced Combat Trigger (ACT) Product Code: ALG-COMBAT-TRIGGER-(ACT)
Charging Handle Product Code: BCM-GFH-MOD-4-556
La Rue / Troy Di-Optic Aperture Front & Rear Sight COMBO
Stag Bolt Carrier Group (MPI)(HPI) - Auto
With freight and a couple of tools and magazines I have 1,500.00 into the build. As soon as I finish it I'll post it up here. I was thinking of doing a photo catalog so if I do I will post a link here as well.

[Spartan65]

Final part came in, charging handle. Tomorrow I get to take it out and sight in the iron sights. Supposed to be at least 3-4 inches of snow, I wonder if humidity will be a factor.

[Travis B]

I wonder if humidity will be a factor.

It shouldn't be.

[Co-gnARR]

This is minor in the grand scheme of all the good comments above, but I just wanted to make sure your local FFL isn't charging you $50 for a transfer alone. If this is your total estimate for shipping and transfer of the lower, that's about average - most dealers charge about $25, although I found a local one that charges $17, which I plan to use in the future.

Dave

Spartan, if you are in Albuquerque I will send you to my FFL who is half that price, or less. Send me a PM if interested.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[vicious_cb]

So the parts are finally stating to show up. This is going to be my Coyote gun

E.R. Shaw Barrel 18" Heavy profile Rifle Gas, Fluted SS410r
Stag Low Profile Gas Block .750
Gas Tube - Rifle Length TR-GTR
SJC Titan Compensator, .223 Stainless Steel Black Oxide finish
Spikes Lower (Multi) Forged Pirate - Bullet Markings
Stag A3 Flat Top upper
LaRue Tactical RISR™ / CTR Combo
Mil Spec Aftermarket Stock Kit
DPMS Steel Barrel Nut AR-15 Matte
Troy Industries Alpha Battle Rail Modular Free Float Handguard AR-15
Lower Parts Kit W/O Hammer, Trigger, Pistol Grip Part Number LRPK-SP
IWC QD End Plate
Advanced Combat Trigger (ACT) Product Code: ALG-COMBAT-TRIGGER-(ACT)
Charging Handle Product Code: BCM-GFH-MOD-4-556
La Rue / Troy Di-Optic Aperture Front & Rear Sight COMBO
Stag Bolt Carrier Group (MPI)(HPI) - Auto
With freight and a couple of tools and magazines I have 1,500.00 into the build. As soon as I finish it I'll post it up here. I was thinking of doing a photo catalog so if I do I will post a link here as well.



That rifle is seriously going to be front heavy. I mean its really going to suck to do anything with that rifle other than shooting from the bench.

[Spartan65]

I bought the lower receiver locally so I didn't have to pay an FFL transfer, It's balanced at the barrel nut, I can balance it with one finger. It's colder than a well diggers ass but I'm taking it out in a little bit.
31938

[Spartan65]

322823228332284

Top Left __> Top Right __> Bottom Left __> Bottom Right and plenty of flyers. All and all I am happy with my 1st Build