View Full Version : "I don't want to be a jihadi... I want to come home"
If the Brits can identify them and allow them back in the country, that would be a damn shame. I'd hope they were arrested on site.
'I don't want to be a jihadi... I want to come home': How dozens of British Muslims who went to Syria to join ISIS 'plead to return to UK after becoming disillusioned with the conflict'
British jihadis fighting in Syria want to come home after becoming disillusioned with the conflict, it emerged today.
In the last three years, more than 500 radicalised Britons are believed to have headed out to the war-torn country, where Islamist groups are fighting President Bashar Assad's forces.
But some of those who signed up to fight have now contacted authorities in Britain saying they have had enough of the war-zone and want to return home, it was reported today.
A man representing a group of 30 militants reportedly contacted King's College London's International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation and Political Violence (ICSR), telling them his group want to come back.
The men, who went to the region in the hope of toppling President Assad, are reportedly unhappy at having to fight against other rebel factions.
According to The Times, the man told researchers: 'We came to fight the regime and instead we are involved in gang warfare. It's not what we came for but if we go back [to Britain] we will go to jail.'
Cont:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2744620/Dozens-British-jihadis-want-return-home-Intermediary-claims-30-British-men-requests-disillusioned-conflict.html
They should be brought home, tried for treason and shot.
Not to worry, I'm sure the US will welcome them with open wallets.
TriviaMonster
09-05-14, 19:03
They should be brought home, tried for treason and shot.
They shouldn't be allowed back on soil. They should be allowed to die where they fight.
montanadave
09-05-14, 19:13
While I remain skeptical, I have read arguments supporting the repatriation of such young disillusioned jihadists based on their ability to influence other young Muslims in their home countries to turn away from Islamist extremism.
Why would ISIS even allow them to go back? You'd think they would just execute them for being treasonous to their cause. Hmmm...
MountainRaven
09-05-14, 20:10
Matthew 18:13
I imagine a pretty severe debrief should be in order, nevertheless.
montanadave
09-05-14, 20:53
Matthew 18:13
I imagine a pretty severe debrief should be in order, nevertheless.
True dat. And, as noted by 3 AE, I imagine the exit interview with the local ISIS recruiter is a real bitch.
Tell them to gather in an area for evacuation, then drop Napalm on them.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/05/1f0f70303b315cb08271febada4edbc0.jpg
Reminds me of the movie the Four Lions, a comedy about incompetent Jihadis in the UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI
While I remain skeptical, I have read arguments supporting the repatriation of such young disillusioned jihadists based on their ability to influence other young Muslims in their home countries to turn away from Islamist extremism.
Do you think we should have spared Tim McVeigh so that he could influence others away from their hateful ideology?
They shouldn't be allowed back on soil. They should be allowed to die where they fight.
Yep, exactly. And shot on sight if they show up on UK soil since they (IMO) should be considered an enemy force invading.
The UK has been ravaged by white guilt, and is probably 5 years from becoming an Islamic nation, so I'm sure they'll be allowed back.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
The UK has been ravaged by white guilt, and is probably 5 years from becoming an Islamic nation, so I'm sure they'll be allowed back.
Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2
And offered jobs as "Professors" at Oxford.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/05/1f0f70303b315cb08271febada4edbc0.jpg
Yup. It's all fun and games until a JDAM rapped in bacon converts you and your friends into red mist. It's that "Mommy, make the bad man stop!" moment...
Plumber237
09-06-14, 08:45
They should be brought home, tried for treason and shot.
Ding, ding
montanadave
09-06-14, 09:45
So if some western states, the US and Britain, are advertising, advancing and as SecState John Carry has stated.. are materially supporting the overthrow of Assad.. how is it wrong for one of their citizens to do the same?
This notion of "the enemy of my enemy . . ." is fraught with complexity and unforeseen risks. :smile:
This notion of "the enemy of my enemy . . ." is fraught with complexity and unforeseen risks. :smile:
Russia during WWII to OBL was exactly that as have many others over history gone from "friend" (due to mutual enemy) to foe, when mutual enemy is gone. History shows us it's often a mistake. However, I don't know what we can say of the net effect long term. We can point to times it went south due to law of unintended consequences, but there's no doubt that it's also worked out for the best in other examples.
So if some western states, the US and Britain, are advertising, advancing and as SecState John Carry has stated.. are materially supporting the overthrow of Assad.. how is it wrong for one of their citizens to do the same?
The cynic in me says its cause were the government and you should do as we say not as we do cause we know better.
Realistically, it's because ISIL/ISIS whatever are a clear threat to non Muslims. Unlike the Mujahadeen they didn't try to hide that fact. Pretty hard to justify helping guys who have said that they will kill you after they are done killing your enemy.
So if some western states, the US and Britain, are advertising, advancing and as SecState John Carry has stated.. are materially supporting the overthrow of Assad.. how is it wrong for one of their citizens to do the same?
They joined the wrong gang. If they joined the NATO gang in that effort, everything would be peachy.
MountainRaven
09-06-14, 14:44
This notion of "the enemy of my enemy . . ." is fraught with complexity and unforeseen risks. :smile:
I prefer the far simpler axiom that, "The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more - nothing less."
In any case, we're probably talking about guys who are used to warm meals, soft beds, women who aren't afraid to show some skin, and nationalized healthcare - where nobody is trying to kill them. I can easily imagine that more than one of them went to Syria to fight the tyranny of Bashar al-Assad and not necessarily to fight for ISIS - much like how Finns like Lauri Törni went to Germany and joined the Waffen-SS to fight the Soviets, not to fight for Hitler (Lauri Törni went on to return to Finland, where he continued to fight the Soviet Union, illegally immigrated to the US after the war, changed his name to Larry Thorne, joined the Army, and became the basis for John Wayne's character in The Green Berets while fighting in Vietnam... where he died).
I'm not saying that they're especially similar to the Abraham Lincoln Brigade or the American pilots of the RAF's Eagle Squadrons (the AVG - Flying Tigers don't fall into this category, as they were an American air group - American pilots flying American aircraft with American mechanics and paid for by Uncle Sam - perhaps the most famous American 'black' operation of all time). But giving these guys the chance to go home could severely demoralize ISIS's British foreign fighters and potentially the organization as a whole: Losing many of their fighters who hail from Western Europe - especially because they've become disillusioned with ISIS - could be a propaganda coup against that organization, rapidly depleting their numbers as fighters defect to less extreme organizations like al-Qaeda or head home.
Now I should emphasize that I'm not saying that they should just be brought back into the UK and just let loose. Their cases should be (and probably are being) carefully scrutinized by British intelligence (probably in tandem with US and other NATO intelligence services and the intelligence services of select friendly governments in the region, such as Turkey, Jordan, and Israel). And once they are repatriated, they should be detained and thoroughly debriefed by intelligence agents and criminal investigators to ensure that their desire to return to the UK is borne of genuine repentance and not out of a desire to strike at Western Europe or the US - and what charges, if any, could or should be brought against them.
They joined the wrong gang. If they joined the NATO gang in that effort, everything would be peachy.
You mean the gang that's been sitting on their thumbs for the last three years?
An Undocumented Worker
09-06-14, 14:52
They should be brought home under the condition that they will be used for propaganda purposes denouncing the radicals and exposing the bs of isis etc. These people could end up being very helpful at changing public sentiment amongst muslim communities.
and then send them back :)
They should be brought home under the condition that they will be used for propaganda purposes denouncing the radicals and exposing the bs of isis etc. These people could end up being very helpful at changing public sentiment amongst muslim communities.
No western public ploys have ever worked against Islamist... easily discounted as lies by non-believers. When recognized pinnacle personalities in Islam denounce the murderous efforts of the vanguard.. maybe the masses will take note. I can't think of a case ever.... Until then violent jihad will be revered.
I think you are correct.
In Norway we have seen an increase in radicalization of 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants (mainly from the Pakistani, Somali communities, as well as some people from the Balkans, Western Asia and North Africa). There have also been a few ethnic Norwegian radical converts. Several have gone to Syria/Iraq to fight, and a good number of them have been killed. I hope that number increases.
In Europe, there is a very popular and unifying islamist leader; Anjem Choudary. He has been at the forefront of the jihadist movement in the UK, and has a following across the rest of Europe.
The problem is that these prominent spokespeople can, and do, express their extremist opinions freely in the main stream media. Freedom of speech is a bitch sometimes.....
And they do not hesitate making threats against journalists, politicians or pundits if they are critical of their views.
Regarding the ones who do travel to the ME to fight, and who try to return, our intelligence community (Police and Mil) do have most of them under "control", meaning that they have identified most of them and are aware of their comings and goings. They work closely with allied services in order to map and track movements of these individuals at all times.
In late July there was a threat made towards Norway, regarding a terrorist strike. Our police was placed on high alert, and several steps were taken to increase security. The attack never materialized, and it is thought that the increase in security was the reason. The plan eas to have four terrorists attack specific targets in Norway with knives/machetes and kill/wound as many as possible. They were able to track them to Athens, where they disappeared.
Some of the people who have gone off to "get their jihad on" have contacted Norwegian authorities, and asked for assistance to return to Norway. The ones who have returned are of course interviewed/debriefed by the Police Security Services.
Personally I think we should let them go and fight, but revoke their passports as they board the plane. AMF, and good riddance.
Freedom of speech is a bitch sometimes.....
Not only can it be a bitch but it very well may also ensure the downfall of western civilization.
MountainRaven
09-06-14, 21:24
Not only can it be a bitch but it very well may also ensure the downfall of western civilization.
Along with all those other pesky little "rights".
Better that Western Civilization fail than that we give up our rights to try to ensure its survival. We give up those rights, our civilization doesn't deserve to survive.
You mean the gang that's been sitting on their thumbs for the last three years?
I wasn't suggesting otherwise, but yes that gang.
Moose-Knuckle
09-07-14, 04:37
Trojan horse anyone?
Yup, of course they want back in the UK. How else can they set up the sleeper cells they've been tasked with creating by their goat ****ing overlords?
Moose-Knuckle
09-07-14, 04:41
Freedom of speech is a bitch sometimes.....
Some how I don't think the likes of James Madison had gang raping, journalist beheading, Islamofascist, jihadist in mind when they constructed the founding documents. Maybe that's just me . . .
Some how I don't think the likes of James Madison had gang raping, journalist beheading, Islamofascist, jihadist in mind when they constructed the founding documents. Maybe that's just me . . .
No, I agree.
We have restrictions on freedom of speech in our laws, that directly relate to threats, harassment, defamation, privacy violations and coarse pornographic, discriminatory and hateful statements.
That said, government sensorship is not allowed, so we cannot stop them from making the statements. They will always get their message out there, even if what they say can result in charges.
In lieu of the FACT that both the US and UK turned these bastards on Syria then developed a more virulent strain of radical that began cannibalizing the former radicals what better place for them to return to than the UK?
You guys are joking, right?
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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Entrance questioning.. to the EU/UK, about the awesomeness of experience with true Islam, should be video'd and disseminated. Then denied entrance.
No western public ploys have ever worked against Islamist... easily discounted as lies by non-believers. When recognized pinnacle personalities in Islam denounce the murderous efforts of the vanguard.. maybe the masses will take note. I can't think of a case ever.... Until then violent jihad will be revered.
Some of the top Islamist leaders in the UK have denounced ISIS and as expected the UK "Jihadis" interviewed simply say those opposed to ISIS are not "real" Muslims, blah blah and dismissed. Maybe pinnacle personalities in Islam in the region they are fighting denouncing them, especially if Sunni Muslim leaders. But, I'd expect them to simply say something like those leaders brain washed by western devils, etc.. Until the Sunni population in the region reject them in full, and they lose their base of support (maybe via local Muslim leaders instructing the Sunni public at large to reject them?) they will likely rationalize it however cults and zealots always do.
they want to come home and start up there own police like in Germany !
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Shariah-Police-Twitter.jpg
they want to come home and start up there own police like in Germany !
I'd hope the Germans tolerate that as well as 'Mercicans would, which is to say not at all. A royal ass kicking is in order.
So if some western states, the US and Britain, are advertising, advancing and as SecState John Carry has stated.. are materially supporting the overthrow of Assad.. how is it wrong for one of their citizens to do the same?
No no no, that's too much thinking. They're obviously villains and should be shot or killed via drone strike. No trial, no context. Just start killing everyone who does stuff that the news said is bad this week.
I don't think enough people pay attention to the goings on in these regions. The article says 500 in three years. How many of those advocating their immediate death had heard of ISIS/ISIL three years ago? These were probably young men from immigrant families who were sick of watching their bloodline get exterminated. Think along the lines of everyone's favorite Rhodesian Army and the way men from all over the world traveled to join a cause they found justifiable to fight back against tyranny. Sure, they probably should have gone with a name with a little less stigma, as "jihad" isn't really well received these days. But they didn't commit acts of terrorism, and they didn't attack their own country. They saw the world doing nothing while Assad indiscriminately slaughtered thousands of Syrians to show he was willing to do so. Our own government has lent money, materials, and yes even personnel to the FSA and Anti-Assad forces. Of those forces was a little group that rapidly blossomed to unite smaller unorganized militias and rebel groups that were previously fighting each other for no other reason than lack of blue/blue coordination.
And now three years later, mission creep has turned ISIS into a monster that seems to be growing a little every day. They no longer claim to fight to free the oppressed, now they commit atrocities and aim for global conquest. And now the men who left their homes for an arguably good reason, disillusioned with the group's leadership and intent, want to go home without the image of the newer ISIS being the nail in their coffin.
There's a tragic irony in the way M4C members tend to say if it were them, they would be fighting. Or that we haven't seen the "good guys" take matters in their own hands. Yet with a simple media twist they are just as quick to cry treason and demand justice through death.
Actually, it was the FSA doing the slaughtering of entire villages. When Assad's forces would retake ground every couple of weeks and then stopped the advance the now-ISIL Vampyres (who were also being trained in Jordan and Turkey) were introduced. They fought each other as much as Assad.
Proof of the evilness of this is the fact that we will not work with Assad in the effort "to get ISIL."
Too few REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THE DETAILS OF THESE CONFLICTS from all sources available.
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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
@SOW_0331:
I think that you are making a poor comparison between these fighters and the ones who traveled to Rhodesia, and you are making a pretty big assumption with regards to the motivation of the foreign fighters who have joined IS.
Sure, for some, they wanted to support their own kin in what they saw as transgressions by Assad.
That being said, most who have traveled from Norway (as an example) are radicalized and extremist islamists. People who have made threats towards our heads of state, who have made quite clear their hatred for the west and the US by staging frequent demonstrations outside the US embassy, who have targeted Jewish community in Norway. The leader of the extremist group here in Norway was given a 45 minute online portrait interview with one of our largest newspapers, where he defended beheadings, gave the usual rant about muslims who did not kill kafir's were bad muslims, said that all the bad press was just western propaganda and that IS had never killed civilians (or women or children). He was quite clear on sharia being the only alternative.
Again, some of these repentant warriors might have had "noble" or "valid" reasons for going, but many are radical extremists who would not hesitate two seconds to carry out a terrorist attack against Norway, the US, the UK, or any other kafir country. They truly believe in the Islamic State.
Along with all those other pesky little "rights".
Better that Western Civilization fail than that we give up our rights to try to ensure its survival. We give up those rights, our civilization doesn't deserve to survive.
Since I know your heart is in the right place I'll try a simple analogy to clarify why you are wrong.
Naval Officer to his Admiral: "Sir, our boat has sprung a leak and we are in danger of sinking. While I know it isn't the preferred method I suggest we immediately plug the hole with whatever we currently have at our disposal, which in this case is a heavy steel plate that may cause the ship to list in a way that may or may not be a problem in the future. Either way Sir it will save us from am almost certain doom."
Admiral: "While that will likely be of tremendous help to prevent further seepage and therefore save lives it seems like overkill. Attaching such a plate in that location poses certain risk if we turn too sharply or encounter a storm. Can't we just wait it out and see what happens? Maybe we can make it back to port in our current condition."
Officer: "Sir, with all due respect while you may be right the circumstance clearly indicates that immediate action is needed or, once again, the entire ship could go down and all hands will either perish or be forced into lifeboats in order to try to find dry land elsewhere. This would be a catastrophic outcome, one that must be avoided at all cost."
Admiral: "I disagree, as once the plate is attached it could be difficult to remove. Plus it will make our ship less seaworthy than it should be and therefore is not the ideal way to remedy our admittedly dire situation. I insist we find another way."
Officer: "Sir with all due respect we are responsible for the lives aboard this ship and with that I insist we take action now."
Admiral: "I will not see my ship diminished in such a way. We will either make it home or sink."
Now if sanity prevails the next sound you should hear is that of the Admiral hitting the water after being thrown from the ship.
MountainRaven
09-08-14, 17:54
Related: American Muslim Who Didn't Join the Chechans (http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-08/ameircan-man-very-nearly-joined-jihad-chechnya-1990s).
While it might give a peek into the mind of a potential Jihadist, I feel like they could probably write stories about, "American Man Who Very Nearly Joined French Foreign Legion". (Not that I'm comparing the morality and capabilities of the FFL with ISIS or anybody else.)
Since I know your heart is in the right place I'll try a simple analogy to clarify why you are wrong.
<snip>
Your analogy is flawed.
The ship is taking on water, but a plate won't fix it. They could use the bilge pump, but that requires people to make it work and would fill the senior officers' quarters with the stench of seawater, sweat, oil, and gasoline. So they decide to throw the E-1s overboard once the ship starts to take on too much water. But that doesn't fix it, so they throw the E-2s. They continue on until the ship is taking on water so fast that they finally realize that they need to turn on the bilge pumps or the ship is lost. Except they already through all the personnel who knew how to run the bilge pumps overboard.
The senior officers board lifeboats, the ship sinks, and the rest of their crew is killed. They arrive home, are greeted as heroes, and proclaim to all the world how stupid their crew was, how poorly designed the ship was. That if it hadn't been for that stupid crew and the idiots who laid the keel so bass-ackwards, the ship would have made it.
(In case it needs telling, the senior officers are the Koch Brothers, George Soros, Obama, and their ilk. The crew are the American people. And "those idiots who laid the keel so bass-ackwards" of the leaky ship would be the Founding Fathers. The bilge pump is, of course, running the ship like it is supposed to be run.)
Your analogy is flawed.
Perhaps, but my biggest mistake was putting you automatically on the defensive buy stating that you "are" wrong instead of "may be" wrong, this since neither of us can adamantly predict the outcome either way. That said if I could choose between letting hell-bent nuts travel to fight with our enemies and return trained and bloodthirsty or not I'd swiftly vote for not.
We have no idea the potential future scope of ISIS's reach in five or ten years, but we do know that if substantial numbers of Americans believe they can fly to Turkey or Lebanon or wherever and then covertly travel by bus to fight and train with them only to return battle hardened we will indeed have a problem here. One that will destroy America? Physically no but spiritually just maybe, this after we finish cleaning up the arms and legs of innocents who have been killed because we don't want to rock the boat and therefore feel helpless to prevent the next round of death. Sure the Patriot Act has already been warped into a threat to the common citizen by our government, but that's not because it can't operate as designed. It's because we have tolerated the abuse, so we have only ourselves to blame.
Due to the current unprecedented circumstance overseas two of the countries most notable libertarians (at heart if not in party name) are now advocating war and in the case of Cruz the stated preventive measures I would accept. But forget me, if you don't want to agree with them either then I don't know what else to tell you.
Entrance questioning.. to the EU/UK, about the awesomeness of experience with true Islam, should be video'd and disseminated. Then denied entrance.
No western public ploys have ever worked against Islamist... easily discounted as lies by non-believers. When recognized pinnacle personalities in Islam denounce the murderous efforts of the vanguard.. maybe the masses will take note. I can't think of a case ever.... Until then violent jihad will be revered.
i had heard that in bin laden's last days he was advocating for less violence, the subsidiary cells did not heed.
the extremists just do extreme.
The situation is not that complicated.
1) These men chose to join a terrorist group.
2) If they are dead, they cannot harm us.
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