View Full Version : Help me pick a 4x4 vehicle
Im normally a "sports car" guy. My last two cars have been a 2006 WRX and currently a 2010 G37 sedan. I have decided that my next vehicle is going to be a 4x4. Id love to buy the new 2015 STi but a good 4x4 will fit my family a lot better as well as help my other hobbies like shooting and hiking. Plus my daughter loves to go driving "in the dirt". I have a decent amount of off road experience but never in my own vehicle. The wheeling will mostly take place around Phoenix in the mountains and deserts there.
Whatever vehicle I choose Ill probably have for about 10 years and will also be a daily driver. Ive narrowed it down to a few choices and have some pros and cons listed out for each and would like some input from people with more experience. Planned mods would be small lift (about 2 inches) and 33 inch tires for all the vehicles listed.
1. Toyota Tacoma 4 door TRD Off Road (Possibly Baja model)
Pros:
not horribly expensive, even with options
has a truck bed
locking rear diff
lots of aftermarket
good off roader stock
Cons:
lots of rear overhang
AC supposedly sucks
Not sure if the Baja package is worth it if Im going to lift it anyways
barely fits in my garage
2. Toyota 4runner Trail
Pros:
locking rear diff
great approach/departure angles stock
secure storage
very comfortable
easily fits in my garage
KDSS system
good aftermarket
Cons:
expensive
KDSS system is expensive
3. Toyota FJ Cruiser
Pros:
cheapest of the Toyotas
very capable off road
I love the styling
easily fits in my garage
locking rear diff
great approach/departure angles
Cons:
rear suicide doors would be hard with the kid
rear windows dont roll down (the biggest problem, not sure how the kid would like that over time)
rear/side visibility sucks
4. Nissan Xterra Pro-4x
Pros:
cheapest
great approach/departure angles
locking rear diff
good under body armor
powerful motor
roof storage compartment
standard off road lights
Cons:
interior is bland
rear doors are narrow
worst at holding value compared to the Toyotas
rear Dana 44 diff is said to be a bit light for serious off road (Jeeps supposedly use a stronger version)
5. Jeep Wrangler 4 door hard top
Pros:
best off road vehicle listed
top comes off
Can opt for the Rubicon model which trumps the others off road even more
aftermarket is the cheapest and most plentiful
resale is very high
new motor makes the new models much better on the road
Cons:
Chrysler reliability
no locking rear diff in the standard model
new motor lacks low end torque
www.azfj.org FJC group here in PHX
great forum and bet you could head out with one of them on a run to see what they can do :)
had it since 2007 going to sell it to get a 4 runner mainly cause 2 kids 2 dogs and camping the FJ is small ?
gas mileage when fixed up kinda can suck ? I get about 12-14
with kids the doors can be kinda a pain so not sure how old your kids are both mine are under 10 but the windows are small they can't open and get in get out without you doing so
in a parking lot its kinda dance to open step away step back then they get out you close the door etc...
that gets a bit old my oldest is 5'2" she starts to notice the rear is a bit cramped on longer trips
BUT they are just fun vehicles that are amazing off road etc... but IMHO they are not the best family vehicle but if you have a second vehicle then it would be worth it :)
since wife and I have our own biz and we homeschool we don't have to always be driving it
www.expeditionportal.com is a great off road site for info in general
also www.ih8mud.com
I know there is a 4 runner forum also ? but I don't have one yet so don't go on it
Inkslinger
09-05-14, 21:02
Rubicon. End of story if you want the best production off road vehicle. Jeep wrote the book on 4 wheel drive. I've owned two. I think my TJ was the better of the two, my JK still kicks ass. My unlimited has way more room than the two door. I miss the 4.0 though.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/byzuhage.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/besuveta.jpg
wildcard600
09-05-14, 21:10
FJ or a two door jeep. the 4-door jeep is a long assed stretch limo wannbe making your approach and departure angles very tough and the chance of getting high centered with the pathetic breakover angle.
Honestly it sounds like you would be better off just getting an old beater Jeep or 4x4 and get something else for the family car. SUV's and 4x4's suck on the road IMO, eat tires and brakes, and gulp down the gas so fast your wallet will blow away in every stiff breeze.
I miss my 06 Jeep everyday, but I would not have half the gun stuff I have now or money in the bank if I was still putting $300+ through the tank every month. Hopefully i'll be able to get my '51 Willys going here in the next year or two.
Get a Ford F250 FX4.....problem solved. ;)
Inkslinger
09-05-14, 21:24
FJ or a two door jeep. the 4-door jeep is a long assed stretch limo wannbe making your approach and departure angles very tough and the chance of getting high centered with the pathetic breakover angle.
I've yet to be encumbered by the longer wheelbase. The only dimensional difference that I have a gripe with is that it's wider than my TJ. I've been high centered in the TJ, but yet to have been in the JK. You just need to know how to read the terrain. Also, wheelbase doesn't effect approach or departure angle.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/ana7erut.jpg
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/rushca01/63364948-691C-4D2B-B8EC-CB0465973EC5_zpsa6ciad2p.jpg
wildcard600
09-05-14, 21:35
I've yet to be encumbered by the longer wheelbase. The only dimensional difference that I have a gripe with is that it's wider than my TJ. I've been high centered in the TJ, but yet to have been in the JK. You just need to know how to read the terrain. Also, wheelbase doesn't effect approach or departure angle.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/06/ana7erut.jpg
A longwheel base can affect your approach and departure angle. Think back wheels still on the downhill side of one hill/rock while the front is attempting to approach the uphill side of another. On a flat surface you would be correct.
Couple things.
1. 2 door jeep is out of the question. Not enough storage room for a daily driver.
2. Can't do a third vehicle. I don't have anywhere to put it. I'm not going to park my car outside in the summer.
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 21:39
I love my 4Runner. If you have a family, the FJ is out, and Chrysler can kick rocks as far as I'm concerned. The Tacoma or 4Runner will be a solid vehicle that will do good on and off road and will hold it's value well. Either is a great choice.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s73/hownowbrowncow_02/Cars/967A8A99-9881-4858-81AA-67766AEA817F_zpsd2yq58yx.jpg
All of the Toyotas are great daily drivers for your needs. For those who recommend the Jeep, it is a better off road package as compared to the Tacoma and Fore Runner but a far worst daily driver.
wildcard600
09-05-14, 21:43
Couple things.
1. 2 door jeep is out of the question. Not enough storage room for a daily driver.
2. Can't do a third vehicle. I don't have anywhere to put it. I'm not going to park my car outside in the summer.
Park the beater 4x4 outside ?
I guess I don't understand. you have $40,000 to spend on a 4x4 but can't get a carport ?
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 21:45
All of the Toyotas are great daily drivers for your needs. For those who recommend the Jeep, it is a better off road package as compared to the Tacoma and Fore Runner but a far worst daily driver.
Exactly. And lets be honest here about where you spend the majority of the time operating the vehicle. With minor mods the Toyota's are capable off road. The Baja and Trail editions already have a leg up over what I have. But my standard SR5 will go everywhere I need it to when I go camping or fishing up in the hills. I plan on leveling mine out this winter and upgrading to AT tires.
Also a nice feature of my 4Runner is it has a center diff that can be locked. I can drive it on dry pavement in 4Hi without tearing anything up. A very handy feature for those times where the traction goes back and forth from good to bad. Last winter I drove it around in 4Hi for about a month due to snow and ice on the roads in spots.
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 21:49
Forgot to mention, if you're looking at building a more capable trail rig, you are better off starting with a base model Toyota instead of the premium ones. You will save money at purchase and you will end up swapping most of it out anyway. I've even heard the same from the Jeep guys. The Rubi is a nice stock trail rig, but most of the guys I know who wheel seriously aren't running stock axles or transfer cases anyway.
My buddies 4Runner at Gore last fall. This put a lot of Jeeps and FJ40's to shame.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s73/hownowbrowncow_02/Cars/cjs4runner_zpsa5006dc3.jpg
Forgot to mention, if you're looking at building a more capable trail rig, you are better off starting with a base model Toyota instead of the premium ones. You will save money at purchase and you will end up swapping most of it out anyway. I've even heard the same from the Jeep guys. The Rubi is a nice stock trail rig, but most of the guys I know who wheel seriously aren't running stock axles or transfer cases anyway.
My buddies 4Runner at Gore last fall. This put a lot of Jeeps and FJ40's to shame.
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s73/hownowbrowncow_02/Cars/cjs4runner_zpsa5006dc3.jpg
Do you know what model year this is?
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 22:14
Do you know what model year this is?
It's an 86 or 87 I believe. Was an IFS truck originally, but he swapped it for a straight axle. Also has lockers front and rear and a dual stick transfer case. In lo lo the thing really crawls, it can idle up hills. Also has full armor and all the other usual trail rig stuff.
Park the beater 4x4 outside ?
I guess I don't understand. you have $40,000 to spend on a 4x4 but can't get a carport ?
I have a two car garage and a small driveway. I live in a suburb of Phoenix. If I park the 4x4 in the driveway it will block one of the cars in the garage. I dont have anywhere on my property to put a third vehicle without keeping one of my daily drivers in the driveway. I also live in a HOA so putting a cover over my driveway is a no go, not to mention I wouldnt do it in the first place.
wildcard600
09-05-14, 22:26
I have a two car garage and a small driveway. I live in a suburb of Phoenix. If I park the 4x4 in the driveway it will block one of the cars in the garage. I dont have anywhere on my property to put a third vehicle without keeping one of my daily drivers in the driveway. I also live in a HOA so putting a cover over my driveway is a no go, not to mention I wouldnt do it in the first place.
Rent a storage unit ?
Honestly it seems ridiculous to spend the kind of money you are looking at for a 4x4 that will actually only be very occasionally used. but its your choice and your money.
Just my humble opinion.
Get a Ford F250 FX4.....problem solved. ;)
seriously, much better. I had an xterra for my first car, I took a hit from an f250 in college. My xterra was actually torn in half, the f250 didn't even have a dent. I will never own tinker toy car again. If you want something for 4x4, get something that is not only truly built for it, but can actually take a beating. Just going through gently muddy east texas ranch fields I have put some serious dings in all kinds of trucks/suv. The best so far, surprisingly a yukon xl, however I don't intentionally go offloading down trails or over rocks, if I did, I would have a wrangler.
Rent a storage unit ?
Honestly it seems ridiculous to spend the kind of money you are looking at for a 4x4 that will actually only be very occasionally used. but its your choice and your money.
Just my humble opinion.
Whats wrong with having a 4x4 as a daily driver?
Get a Ford F250 FX4.....problem solved. ;)
Ive actually really considered one. However it wont fit in my garage and for the trails out here its a bit big. One of my good friends has a 2009 crew cab 4x4 F250 thats lifted with 35s. Does great on the trails that it fits down.
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 22:38
Don't get a brodozer. Unless you're pulling 10k pounds or more on a regular basis they are a complete waste of money. My work truck is an F350 FX4 and I wouldn't ever buy something like that unless I was pulling a huge RV or boat around. My 5k pound weight limit on the 4Runner is plenty for pulling a few MX bikes to the track. And it fits down trails in the National Forests.
Don't get a brodozer. Unless you're pulling 10k pounds or more on a regular basis they are a complete waste of money. My work truck is an F350 FX4 and I wouldn't ever buy something like that unless I was pulling a huge RV or boat around. My 5k pound weight limit on the 4Runner is plenty for pulling a few MX bikes to the track. And it fits down trails in the National Forests.
trust me Im not. But the car guy in me really likes the thought of a turbocharged 6.7 liter V8 making 800ish LbFt.
wildcard600
09-05-14, 22:43
Whats wrong with having a 4x4 as a daily driver?
As I said, they suck on the road, ride and handle like crap, eat tires and brakes, guzzle gas, and are hard to park to boot.
I miss my TJ all the time but ditching it to get my car was the best economic decision I probably ever made. I was spending more in tires on my jeep every year than almost my entire gas bill for a year with my car. Imagine if gas goes back to $4-5 a gallon.
Like I said its your money and you can do with it what you would like.
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 22:44
trust me Im not. But the car guy in me really likes the thought of a turbocharged 6.7 liter V8 making 800ish LbFt.
I think the only full size truck on the market that appeals to me is the Raptor. I'd rock one of those in desert tan with black wheels and a magnaflow exhaust in a second.
JBecker 72
09-05-14, 22:45
As I said, they suck on the road, ride and handle like crap, eat tires and brakes, guzzle gas, and are hard to park to boot.
I miss my TJ all the time but ditching it to get my car was the best economic decision I probably ever made. I was spending more in tires on my jeep every year than almost my entire gas bill for a year with my car. Imagine if gas goes back to $4-5 a gallon.
Like I said its your money and you can do with it what you would like.
This is why the 4Runner is so popular. It's a great daily driver. I get 24 mpg in mine on road trips.
It's an 86 or 87 I believe. Was an IFS truck originally, but he swapped it for a straight axle. Also has lockers front and rear and a dual stick transfer case. In lo lo the thing really crawls, it can idle up hills. Also has full armor and all the other usual trail rig stuff.
The Toyota truck series for those models were almost identical from 1985-1989. In 1990 the newer models that eventually transtioned to the Tacoma were made.
I had an older Toyota 4X4 and that dam truck was tough as nails. Still regret selling it.
I agree if you want a 4X4 to truly off-road then an older Toyota truck or 4 Runner would be what I would buy. The older Jeeps are great off roaders too, but the Toyotas last a very long-time.
That said if the truck is just going to be used for driving lightly off-road, such as on fire trails or service roads then the do-all choice for me would be the new Toyota 4-Runner. Buddy at work has one and it is a nice truck, the only thing I disliked was the price (he paid over 40 grand). The new Toyota trucks are getting ridiculously expensive. I looked at a new Tundra 4X4 crew cab fully loaded it was around $65K.
wildcard600
09-05-14, 22:49
This is why the 4Runner is so popular. It's a great daily driver. I get 24 mpg in mine on road trips.
My TJ got 22-23. My car now gets 38-41.
I work too hard and long for my money to spend more to line some assholes pocket in Saudi Arabia just to get to work.
IMO
I'm willing to spend money on things I like to do. If I don't buy a 4x4 I'm going to be driving a STi or a used CTS-V. Neither of those are known to be economical on gas, tires or brakes.
I'm not going to be throwing 35 inch mud tires on this truck. 33 inch AT tires get decent tread life and don't cost a crazy amount. I've done the math and the difference in gas price from one of these trucks to my G37 isn't horrible especially since my Infiniti requires premium. Hell if I get one of the cheaper vehicles the difference in payment alone could easily cover the increase in gas.
I love my Raptor. It's like having four cars for the price of four cars; muscle car, family sedan, pickup truck, off road bomber.
Whatever you do, don't buy a Nissan not made in Japan. My last was a pos. My 2 older Maximas were much better. My vote is for the Tacoma.
Whats wrong with having a 4x4 as a daily driver?
If your actually going to wheel it why not buy/build something more off road capable? For less money to boot.
That way you can still have your sti too
its all personal I would say what you like to drive :)
my car before my FJC was a MB S class :) can't get much of a nicer ride than that but love the FJC more
on Maui had a nice Porsche a BMW and a 4x4 and wife drove the BMW the most the 4x4 was are daily ride though even with those other choices :)
my BMW ate brakes my Porsche ate tires
every thing has its price if you want to play the game
have always been a 4x4 guy I like sitting high in traffic I get a much better view of whats going on
prefer having a armored for rock crawling 4x4 also for off road safety first off but even in parking lots or whatever someone bumps me ? no biggy lots of idiots here in AZ that drive and I am sure elsewhere
pic of my FJ next to another nice ride :) not my lamborghini another guy who's kid is in the same class as mine at martial arts
had a client that had 3 Gallardos ? poverty sucks :) hahahaha
one thing about the FJC holding value insanely well !!!
also they are made in the Hino plant which is where the fleet vehicles are made so the build quality is deserving of the FJ name
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=28368&d=1409998293
As I said, they suck on the road, ride and handle like crap, eat tires and brakes, guzzle gas, and are hard to park to boot.
I miss my TJ all the time but ditching it to get my car was the best economic decision I probably ever made. I was spending more in tires on my jeep every year than almost my entire gas bill for a year with my car. Imagine if gas goes back to $4-5 a gallon.
Like I said its your money and you can do with it what you would like.
some reasons
really nice rock crawlers can cost a LOT more than a new FJC or Rubicon etc...
also I know here in PHX I like having air-conditioning and nice modern driving rig to and from the spots and reliability on top of all that ?
again not against having a great beater rig that is built up to have fun I did that when I was younger but these days with young kids and wife and so on I did my idiot fun when I was young now I use it to get to fun places and take the easy route there but I can get anywhere I need its not about the hardest line if I was doing that I would be back on a bike and going where no car can ever go but its not about that
if it was pure dust in face fun some of the ATV look more fun and cheaper than high end rock crawlers again and those can nickel and dime one if you use them how they should be used and be breaking parts :)
so IMHO wheeling is not about taking the hardest line to get there its about getting there in one piece in relative comfort when its 109 out I prefer windows and air-con with a couple friends
also when you watch a great driver in a rig like a FJC or a Rubicon they can do some freaking amazing things granted not like a true crawler but still good enough to get to the same spots
agree nice to get good mileage ? but again its not about getting the most mileage also less than %15 of our oil comes from saudi these days ?
If your actually going to wheel it why not buy/build something more off road capable? For less money to boot.
That way you can still have your sti too
With the FJ Cruiser going away after the '14 model year, my boss really wanted to get one. Yesterday afternoon he and I took a ride to the Toyota dealer to check it out. After a 5 min test drive, we walked away looking like someone pooped in his Cheerios. Really a disappointment for him. Visibility as non existent. Possibly the worst visibility of any vehicle I have been in. He is 6'-4" so his siting position placed his head right behind the B-pillar. He could not see anything.
I love my Raptor. It's like having four cars for the price of four cars; muscle car, family sedan, pickup truck, off road bomber.
i just couldn't live with the mpg, i drive to much from the city to a ranch. I really, really want one still.
JBecker 72
09-06-14, 08:10
I love my Raptor. It's like having four cars for the price of four cars; muscle car, family sedan, pickup truck, off road bomber.
If I could afford it, I'd have a Raptor in the driveway in a second. Badass truck.
You might also check out the Jeep GC Limited or above with the diesel, offroad 2 package and lux package.
The diesel gets decent mileage and the offroad2 package gets you a decent AWD system when paired with the diesel or V8 (rear ELSD not avail with the V6).
The lux package picks up the HID lights and the new 8.4" nav is nice, but more important it integrates the controls (AC, etc) smoothly.
Personally we had a '99 Jeep GC (WJ) w/V8,QD,towIV,ORA and I loved it. This year I traded my G35C 6MT for a '14 Jeep GC Overland, V8, Offroad2, nav.
32" is about the limit on the GC (no lift), but paired with decent tires it can do pretty well. The Bridgestone Dueler Revo AT (street bias) and Goodyear Duratrac (trail bias) are at the top of my list right now.
Jeep has some programs where you can get 1% below invoice without any haggling. I can dig up the info if you need.
I cross shopped the Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited, FJ, Subaru, Audi Q5.
The Rubicon is by far the best offroad (but not so good onroad), the FJ and GC probably similar but the GC is much easier to live with day in and day out. Subi has a good AWD as long as you don't need a low range.
Note the Ram 2500 Power Wagon pickup has front and rear lockers which is very unusual for a factory vehicle these days.
A lot of it comes down to how much offroad capability you really need.
The GC, when properly equipped, has decent off road capabilities and is still great on the road.
I love mine and probably the only thing I would do differently would be to get the diesel over the V8 to get better gas milage. The V8 milage depends heavily on how you drive and can be pretty poor if you don't drive conservatively.
-john
I owned a Land Rover LR3 for a while and loved it. Very capable off-road - it can hang with or beat any other stock 4x4- and has a ride quality like no other. The LR4 is even better. Up front cost is pretty high but service price isn't far off from any other luxury vehicle.
montanadave
09-06-14, 09:28
Funny how the visibility issues are kind of adaptive. I've got a Ridgeline and ended up putting a shell on it after my wife almost shit herself when one of the dogs bailed out to chase some cows. That's another story.
Needless to say, with the shell you are reliant on the side view mirrors. After seven years, I get in another vehicle and never even look in the rear view. Just habit.
However, for someone driving daily in traffic requiring frequent lane changes, it would probably be a PITA.
Spurholder
09-06-14, 10:54
I bought a Taco DoubleCab 4WD with the Off Road package three months ago. I love it. A/C doesn't suck as bad as you think - it cools off pretty quickly, even in 100 degree temps. Comes with a locking rear, downhill assist, and other goodies, and still rides pretty decent. Heck, I took HH6 and three kids on a 1200 mile trip...no complaints.
It's a great truck.
4 dr Tacoma will be very hard to beat in the all-purpose arena.
SilverBullet432
09-06-14, 11:35
Get a Ford F250 FX4.....problem solved. ;)
Finally! Some sense! The new scorpion 6.7 packs serious bawls! The 6.2 raptor would be my 2cnd choice. I currently don't have a 4x4 truck. Im going to let the new (2015+) f150s get the bugs fixed. Then i'll look into a lariat model 4x4. For a beater 4x4. Id look for an old bronco.
montanadave
09-06-14, 12:37
For a beater 4x4. Id look for an old bronco.
Have I got a deal for you! :laugh: And I'm sure you'll find the snowplow very handy.
28370
Finally! Some sense! The new scorpion 6.7 packs serious bawls! The 6.2 raptor would be my 2cnd choice. I currently don't have a 4x4 truck. Im going to let the new (2015+) f150s get the bugs fixed. Then i'll look into a lariat model 4x4. For a beater 4x4. Id look for an old bronco.
Best part about the 6.7L is I get much better mileage that ALL of my friends who have Jeeps. And I can fit three kids in the back seat with no problems.
Best part about the 6.7L is I get much better mileage that ALL of my friends who have Jeeps. And I can fit three kids in the back seat with no problems.
whats your current hwy mpg?
whats your current hwy mpg?
About 19-20 mpg
About 19-20 mpg
Wow. I guess I have another truck to test next weekend. I wasn't seeing that in any of the current gasser offerings. Any DEF problems?
MountainRaven
09-06-14, 15:20
Go to Europe (or Japan or someplace outside of Canada and the US), buy a Toyota Hilux Diesel, bring it back to the States. Capable, reliable, and economical.
Otherwise, I would think you'd want something like a Land Rover Evoque, Range Rover Sport, or a Ford Raptor.
It has been my personal experience that the F-150 is too small inside to be comfortable for anyone over six-two or six-three. Maybe the new ones are different. But given my experience with F-150s and the price of the Raptor, I'd lean toward the Land Rovers.
Wow. I guess I have another truck to test next weekend. I wasn't seeing that in any of the current gasser offerings. Any DEF problems?
Mine is a 2011 with about 85k, no issues at all. No repairs at all. Hell, I am just now breaking in the engine.... :jester:
JBecker 72
09-06-14, 16:11
Go to Europe (or Japan or someplace outside of Canada and the US), buy a Toyota Hilux Diesel, bring it back to the States. Capable, reliable, and economical.
A local off road driving school has a fleet of foreign market diesel Hilux and Land Cruiser trucks. They are such awesome trucks. I wish we got them here.
Go to Europe (or Japan or someplace outside of Canada and the US), buy a Toyota Hilux Diesel, bring it back to the States. Capable, reliable, and economical.
Otherwise, I would think you'd want something like a Land Rover Evoque, Range Rover Sport, or a Ford Raptor.
It has been my personal experience that the F-150 is too small inside to be comfortable for anyone over six-two or six-three. Maybe the new ones are different. But given my experience with F-150s and the price of the Raptor, I'd lean toward the Land Rovers.This is IBC http://www.ibcjapan.co.jp/v5/ , biggest problem with this is getting car in US specs (right hand driver/emissions) then there's shipping. But if want to roll that way you can get em on the cheap. You can even get a Nissan Skyline or Silvia, their all wheel drive:cool:
25 year rule applies to most.
Go to Europe (or Japan or someplace outside of Canada and the US), buy a Toyota Hilux Diesel, bring it back to the States. Capable, reliable, and economical.
some reasons
really nice rock crawlers can cost a LOT more than a new FJC or Rubicon etc...
also I know here in PHX I like having air-conditioning and nice modern driving rig to and from the spots and reliability on top of all that ?
again not against having a great beater rig that is built up to have fun I did that when I was younger but these days with young kids and wife and so on I did my idiot fun when I was young now I use it to get to fun places and take the easy route there but I can get anywhere I need its not about the hardest line if I was doing that I would be back on a bike and going where no car can ever go but its not about that
if it was pure dust in face fun some of the ATV look more fun and cheaper than high end rock crawlers again and those can nickel and dime one if you use them how they should be used and be breaking parts :)
so IMHO wheeling is not about taking the hardest line to get there its about getting there in one piece in relative comfort when its 109 out I prefer windows and air-con with a couple friends
also when you watch a great driver in a rig like a FJC or a Rubicon they can do some freaking amazing things granted not like a true crawler but still good enough to get to the same spots
agree nice to get good mileage ? but again its not about getting the most mileage also less than %15 of our oil comes from saudi these days ?
Makes sense. I'd just hate smash a door in on a boulder on a brand new vehicle as compared to something painted in rattle can bed liner.
For reference my buddies rig from a few years back. Now technical trails would prove a bit difficult and rock crawling wasn't exactly it's forte but purpose built is purpose built.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/06/2fffc40d2e2cfcd40916960ccf2ae9fa.jpg
Was in the same boat and ended up with a Baja Taco. Might have gotten the 4Runner trail but prefer the bed. All depends on your needs. Toyota is coming out the Pro Versions of FJ, Taco and 4Runner shortly.
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/l8apex/E2CAB3CD-074B-4660-9F6F-320F46C28411_zpsikhnsrck.jpg (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/l8apex/media/E2CAB3CD-074B-4660-9F6F-320F46C28411_zpsikhnsrck.jpg.html)
I'm on my 3rd FJ Cruiser. I just picked up my new one last week. This one is the best yet as far as ride quality goes. Love those bilstein shocks and the TRD suspension. I highly recommend the FJ!
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SilverBullet432
09-06-14, 23:02
Have I got a deal for you! :laugh: And I'm sure you'll find the snowplow very handy.
28370
:laugh: perfect for plowing dirt!!
Best part about the 6.7L is I get much better mileage that ALL of my friends who have Jeeps. And I can fit three kids in the back seat with no problems.
O yea, I know guys who have new ram 3500s and new f350s. The rams have proven to be POS's due to their faulty EFI system. The GMs dont even get as good fuel mileage as the new fords. Hell my 07' 6.0 is getting better (loaded 40' gooseneck) mpg than new GMs!
28385
I may be a little biased.
28386
28387
A local off road driving school has a fleet of foreign market diesel Hilux and Land Cruiser trucks. They are such awesome trucks. I wish we got them here.
Who's that?
I love my 14 Grand Cherokee. But that hasn't even been mentioned by anyone haha.
I so wish I could get a hilux or a LC with diesel here :)
better yet a newer Toyota troopy
Go to Europe (or Japan or someplace outside of Canada and the US), buy a Toyota Hilux Diesel, bring it back to the States. Capable, reliable, and economical.
Otherwise, I would think you'd want something like a Land Rover Evoque, Range Rover Sport, or a Ford Raptor.
It has been my personal experience that the F-150 is too small inside to be comfortable for anyone over six-two or six-three. Maybe the new ones are different. But given my experience with F-150s and the price of the Raptor, I'd lean toward the Land Rovers.
Go to Europe (or Japan or someplace outside of Canada and the US), buy a Toyota Hilux Diesel, bring it back to the States. Capable, reliable, and economical.
Otherwise, I would think you'd want something like a Land Rover Evoque, Range Rover Sport, or a Ford Raptor.
It has been my personal experience that the F-150 is too small inside to be comfortable for anyone over six-two or six-three. Maybe the new ones are different. But given my experience with F-150s and the price of the Raptor, I'd lean toward the Land Rovers.
If you're going that route, you might as well get the twin turbo diesel v8 LC200 or the LC Prado which is essentially the diesel variant of the GX470 lexus. The hilux is great, nice and peppy, but it's stiff and rather tight inside.
JBecker 72
09-07-14, 09:30
The diesel Prado would be sweet to have. ^^
Who's that?
I love my 14 Grand Cherokee. But that hasn't even been mentioned by anyone haha.
I drove past this place on a camping trip earlier this year. Pretty sure this is their fb page. Their website sucks. When I drove past I did a double take because of the line of white foreign Toyota's parked in the field.
https://www.facebook.com/UORTC
Or you could just get the '14/15 diesel Jeep GC and save yourself the hassle.
-john
I would kill for this to be coming here:
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/toyota-is-re-releasing-the-land-cruiser-70-in-all-its-1-1626594547
I have an 03 GC that I love. I bought it mostly b/c I wanted solid axles and I wasn't going to spend $28k on a used JKU when there's supposed to be a diesel around the corner.
That said, with your budget I would've gone T4R. The new one is a bit big for the motor IMHO but I still think it's a great car.
Question for all you guys recommending the Wrangler. How reliable has it been for you?
I really like the Jeep. However I'm really wary of buying a Chrysler product and being reliable for 10 years.
I would kill for this to be coming here:
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/toyota-is-re-releasing-the-land-cruiser-70-in-all-its-1-1626594547
I have an 03 GC that I love. I bought it mostly b/c I wanted solid axles and I wasn't going to spend $28k on a used JKU when there's supposed to be a diesel around the corner.
That said, with your budget I would've gone T4R. The new one is a bit big for the motor IMHO but I still think it's a great car.
I came back to this thread thinking about suggesting this and the LC105. Lol!
About 19-20 mpg
I've got you beat. 2004 GMC 2500HD 4x4 diesel. Getting 22-24 hwy and 17+/- city. The Duramax engines are very hard to beat. Only changes have been emission and parts upgrades, The Allison tranny paired with the Duramax engine is a great combination. I've only got 156000 miles and haven't had a single problem.
I've thought about a Rubicon as a fun vehicle and my daughter really wants a jeep bad. I may have to use that as an excuse to get a used one for myself I mean her.
I've got you beat. 2004 GMC 2500HD 4x4 diesel. Getting 22-24 hwy and 17+/- city. The Duramax engines are very hard to beat. Only changes have been emission and parts upgrades, The Allison tranny paired with the Duramax engine is a great combination. I've only got 156000 miles and haven't had a single problem.
I've thought about a Rubicon as a fun vehicle and my daughter really wants a jeep bad. I may have to use that as an excuse to get a used one for myself I mean her.
My MPG doesn't change when towing my 32" RV. My friend with a 2013 GMC gets horable MPG when towing.
Also mine is a Ford and not Government Motor Company.....don't want to pay twice, payments and taxes...... :jester:
brickboy240
09-09-14, 11:10
Yep...loving my 2013 GMC 2500 Denali.
I get about 15-16 in town and 21-22 on the highway. Average for commuting mix of 50-50 hwy/stop and go is about 18.5 for my weekly use.
The thing is a towing beast....I can move 8 huge hay bales or pull my brother's 6 horse trailer and it barely feels like I have anything behind the truck. The truck is very comfortable and quiet on the highway and really nice to drive. Does not feel like a heavy 3/4 ton diesel truck at all.
Now I dog on GM but man....they did their homework on the 6.6 Duramax motor and the 6 speed Allison tranny. GM has their heavy duty trucks down pat if you ask me.
Now...go getcha a real truck! LOL
-brickboy240
TacticalSledgehammer
09-09-14, 12:03
If you spend lots of money on something new, I don't think you'd really want to take it off-roading much. If you do, I don't think you'll enjoy it as much because you'll limit yourself on where you go and what you'll want to do. You say it's not an option, but buying a used jeep would be your best bet.
As far as trucks go, all three US manufacturers make a good HD truck. I currently have a 2013 F250 FX4 and like it so far. I've previously had a dodge 2500 with the 5.9 Cummins and it was unstoppable. In my opinion Cummins is the best diesel on the market. The Duramax is another solid option, and this new power stroke is impressing me by not blowing up as much like the older PS diesels. So ford may be onto something.
4x4twenty6
09-09-14, 13:20
I could not be more happy with my 2011 F150 fx4 supercrew with ecoboost twin turbo v6 with a front leveling kit and one inch taller rear block. I have a programmer intake and exhaust and this truck is so incredibly powerful.
The interior is roomy and comfortable. I have a 5'6" bed and I can fit a ton of gear. its also got an electric rear locker. I get better gas mileage than all my of my buddys tacomas. my wife drives a 2013 4runner 4wd. its a great vehicle but just doesn't have the room for any serious amount of gear if its more than two people. even with the more powerful engine than the Tacoma it still doesn't compare to engine in my 6000 lb f150.
I would test drive a ford with the ecoboost. I know its more expensive than your listed choices but I imagine that there will be some massive rebates with the new body style coming out.
I could not be more happy with my 2011 F150 fx4 supercrew with ecoboost twin turbo v6 with a front leveling kit and one inch taller rear block. I have a programmer intake and exhaust and this truck is so incredibly powerful.
The interior is roomy and comfortable. I have a 5'6" bed and I can fit a ton of gear. its also got an electric rear locker. I get better gas mileage than all my of my buddys tacomas. my wife drives a 2013 4runner 4wd. its a great vehicle but just doesn't have the room for any serious amount of gear if its more than two people. even with the more powerful engine than the Tacoma it still doesn't compare to engine in my 6000 lb f150.
I would test drive a ford with the ecoboost. I know its more expensive than your listed choices but I imagine that there will be some massive rebates with the new body style coming out.
I have driven the new F150s including the ecoboost (my best friends wifes family run the finance dept for one of our very large auto sellers here in Phoenix, Ive test driven pretty much anything I want). They are awesome trucks but dont fit in my garage. Im really wanting to keep my vehicle in the garage. Getting in a vehicle that been sitting in sun all day when its 110+ degrees really sucks. Plus IF I were to get a half ton truck I prefer the new Tundra, though the F150 is a close second.
My MPG doesn't change when towing my 32" RV. My friend with a 2013 GMC gets horable MPG when towing.
Also mine is a Ford and not Government Motor Company.....don't want to pay twice, payments and taxes...... :jester:
Yah Yah I hear you. I mean that in a good way btw. To be honest I can't justify buying a new diesel regardless of the make or model. $60K for a new vehicle is just stupid. My MPG doesn't change either. The newest Ford engine is getting good reviews. Anything before this latest engine back until the 7.3L absolutely stunk. Especially the 6.0L diesel.
One thing I really like about the diesel engines is that you can do a lot to them to increase power and performance! Compared to a gas engine there is so much more room to tinker and increase power. No way I would ever go back to a gasser as a primary vehicle. There are better vehicles out there if you are looking for mainly off road performance but for all around utility a diesel 4x4 truck is going to be hard to beat. Towing. mileage, durability, longevity and raw power are going to be hard to beat with a diesel. Gas vehicles just don't have it when compared to the diesel.
brickboy240
09-10-14, 10:34
My 2500 GMC is getting much better mileage than my previous 4wd gas Tundra. Yes, diesel costs more but the extra mileage the GMC gets sort of cancels out the higher diesel price.
Ford has changed diesel motors quite a bit in recent years. The 6.0 was a total flop and then came the 6.4 which was a little better. GM has had the Duramax for a while now and it had some teething issues in the early days but fewer drastic changes. If you ask me...the Duramax/Allison package is one huge thing GM got right.
I have co-workers that own F-150s with the Eco Boost and they really do NOT get the mileage that Ford claims this motor gets. I also question the longevity of the twin turbos pulling around that big 4wd pickup....how long will they last? American car companies do NOT have a stellar track record with turbo charged gas motors. If I was to go with an F-150....I'd just get the 5.0 V8 - it has been in the Stang for a while and proven itself.
Yes! After now owning a diesel pickup for a while...I will never go back to gas. The Duramax/Allison set up has been very good for me so far.
-brickboy240
JBecker 72
09-10-14, 12:41
Yes! After now owning a diesel pickup for a while...I will never go back to gas. The Duramax/Allison set up has been very good for me so far.
-brickboy240
You might change that attitude when you see how bad they will get with emissions requirements on them in the near future. The current models with DEF, EGR, clean idle, cats, etc. are just the tip of the iceberg.
I love mechanical injection non emission controlled diesels. These new tier 4 engines are nothing but headaches and boy are they expensive.
thopkins22
09-10-14, 13:45
I owned a Land Rover LR3 for a while and loved it. Very capable off-road - it can hang with or beat any other stock 4x4- and has a ride quality like no other. The LR4 is even better. Up front cost is pretty high but service price isn't far off from any other luxury vehicle.
I'll never own another Land Rover again in my life...and I advocate that none of my friends get one either. In the 50,000 miles I owned it before selling, I had it towed nine times. TOWED NINE TIMES. That's not counting every time that something was wrong, that's it won't go any further and I have to call the truck.
Positive things? You can confuse the dealership for an Orvis Lodge.
ShortytheFirefighter
09-10-14, 13:47
C-grunt,
I've been in the same boat you've been comparing the Taco Baja and 4Runner Trail Premium. Between the two, the pricing is almost identical but it seems like with the 4Runner you're getting a much more modern interior and better creature comforts. My current daily driver is a 2010 SHO, so I may be a bit coddled as far as the comfort stuff goes. That being said, you'll also be getting more power and a quieter interior. I really, really wanted to like the Taco Baja more than I did, but the interior looks straight out of 2005 and it just seemed to feel a lot cheaper than a 38k truck should. I'm waiting to check out the 2015 TRD Pro 4Runner.
For what it's worth, I was a Subaru guy for 10 years. The new 2015 STI is pretty spectacular, but the 2015 WRX is no slouch either. You can do a lot with the 10k in savings over the STI.
Have you looked at a Lexus GX470? Comes with all the Toyota off road goodies (locker, downhill assist, etc, just like the TRD offroad taco).
I owned a 2010 Tacoma Double Cab TRD. Loved it. AC worked fine, but it got shitty gas mileage and had a tiny fuel tank. If I were to get another Tacoma (after owning 4), it would be a first gen.
I went with a Nissan Frontier this time around. Almost went with a gently used GX470 (and kinda wish I did)...but in the end I needed a truck.
brickboy240
09-10-14, 16:31
How bad was the mileage on the Tacoma Double Cab?
My 06 Tundra 4wd got horrible mileage but it was a V8 and had 33" tires so I never dreamed of good mileage.
JBecker 72
09-10-14, 16:34
How bad was the mileage on the Tacoma Double Cab?
My 06 Tundra 4wd got horrible mileage but it was a V8 and had 33" tires so I never dreamed of good mileage.
My 4Runner averages about 18 with a mix of city and highway. I've gotten 23 on a road trip this past summer though. It also probably depends on what model Tacoma. The TRD off road model has a shorter rear axle ratio compared to the other models and they tend to get pretty bad mileage.
4x4twenty6
09-10-14, 19:10
My 2011 f150 supercrew fx4 with 2.5" leveling kit, 1" rear block and 305/55R20 Nitto Terra Grapplers gets between 20-20.5 mpg with the cruise set at 75. Thats with my family, two dogs and a bed full of luggage. I travel from little rock to new orleans often and thats what i get over that 400+ mile trip.
For the argument of full disclosure I also have a sct x4 tuner, intake and exhuast, soft tonneau cover and run 93 octane(for the tune) and 47000 on the odometer. Considering the amount of truck i have you cant beat that with a stick. I can also beat any gas truck out there thats not had serious enging mods. ;)
The f150's that see 23 mpg on the regular are probably the extended cab 2wd trucks with that tiny rear end gear ratio. i want a truck that does truck things and i'm more than happy with the fuel mileage i get, even when i cant keep my foot out of it.
Spurholder
09-10-14, 19:27
How bad was the mileage on the Tacoma Double Cab?
My 06 Tundra 4wd got horrible mileage but it was a V8 and had 33" tires so I never dreamed of good mileage.
I get about 18-19 driving the usual mix of city and highway. Does a little better on trips - saw close to 20 on my 1200 mile round trip. Had a 2.5 Forester before this truck, and only got 22-23 on average.
brickboy240
09-11-14, 10:51
I average 17.8 on my Monday-Friday commuting in the 3/4 ton GMC 2500 4WD. 50-50 mix of highway and city stop and go driving.
...tons more capable than any mid sized or small pickup.
That is the worst thing about the mid and smaller pickups....they get crappy mileage for what you pay for and cannot carry much or tow anything very heave at all.
Might as well go to a V8 full sized truck...
-brickboy240
How bad was the mileage on the Tacoma Double Cab?
My 06 Tundra 4wd got horrible mileage but it was a V8 and had 33" tires so I never dreamed of good mileage.
I think I got about 16mpg hwy. But I had 235/85/16's, the 4.0L V6, a topper (weight), and a heavy foot.
Honestly the new Chevy Colorado looks badass, and a I4 diesel is in the works for 2016. That's a game changer.
Good luck with the FJC, they are DC'd and all but impossible to obtain, the 4runner is a sweet family unit that can still get mom & pop out into the bush, but it is very expensive. I just bought my third Tacoma this past Saturday, a 2014 Access cab, TRD/OffRoad, Entune Premium sound system, ect...for $29.300 out the gate, they shaved almost $4000.00 off of the price, I was offered basically the same deal with the DC with exact same options and equipment. You will have a hard time doing that with a 4runner....
brickboy240
09-11-14, 14:56
Yes the new Colorado?canyons do look interesting for smaller trucks. Skip the gassers and wait for the diesel. If it is built by DMax on Ohio - it ought to be great.
Toyota makes an excellent diesel in their Hi-Lux but you cannot buy it in America.
Dodge screwed up by using a Fiat made diesel in the Rams instead of a Cummins unit.
-brickboy240
Yes the new Colorado?canyons do look interesting for smaller trucks. Skip the gassers and wait for the diesel. If it is built by DMax on Ohio - it ought to be great.
Toyota makes an excellent diesel in their Hi-Lux but you cannot buy it in America.
Dodge screwed up by using a Fiat made diesel in the Rams instead of a Cummins unit.
-brickboy240
Toyota hilux, Mitsubishi Warrior, Ford World Ranger, Isuzu D-Max, etc, etc. All are cool rigs we cant get here...
Toyota makes an excellent diesel in their Hi-Lux but you cannot buy it in America.
-brickboy240
True enough, however when you journey to those mysterious lands where said models are available, particularly the Hilux in places like Australia, they all pine for the Tacoma, just as we do the Hilux...
My vote if for the 4Runner.
4x4twenty6
09-12-14, 00:16
I am happy with my 2013 4runner overall(its the wifes). We have the sr5 premium with third row seat and all the options of a limited minus the price and 20'' wheels. The 4wd system is bad ass, I am extremely impressed with how it performs. it rides nice and is a comfortable vehicle. I added a top plate spacer kit to the front to get the nose up and a set of firestone airbags to the rear to help with weight. the bags really are an awesome addition and only cost 100 bucks. I am about to put a new set of tires of on it cuz the stock bridgestones are toast at 23k miles. I will be upgrading to the bfg ta ko in the stock size with a set of spider trax spacers. my wife doesn't want it to look like a mom ride and she needs to be able to make it to work no matter what the conditions are.
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