View Full Version : Glock 23 vs S&W sigma .40
Now that my 1911 is fixed it is time to embark on my next gun adventure. I already own a Springfield Armory XD .40 Tactical and I want something a little smaller and the Glock 23 or the S&W Sigma are about the same size and I have heard over and over and over again how reliable the Glock is, but S&W is also another name that is extremely reliable. Here is the problem: I have held and fired both, they both shoot about the same for me and they are both comfortable. I need advice from people on which they would bet their life on b/c this gun will be a conceal carry. I do not want to venture away from the .40 round but I am open to suggestions on other guns about the same size/build. Also i am wanting to spend $500 or less. Add pics of of your guns if you want because style does count.
Thanks guys
Jay Cunningham
06-16-08, 19:20
Please don't take this the wrong way.
But the Sigma is a big P.O.S. Please consider a .40 S&W M&P series pistol instead.
You asked for comparison and recommends.
First, there must be a reason why EVERY police department who was forced into buying the Sigma, could not get rid of them fast enough. That alone has kept me from even considering the Sigma for anything.
Next, I have a rental counter at my range and quit trying to keep S&W firearms to rent because they break so often it was untenable. I have a couple of the newer revolvers, (since the Brits got out of the gun buisiness) and they do a little better than the others. But their autos have not done well in my program, especially the Sigma. It lasted only three months.
I know people who have one of the newest renditions and they seem to be working fine, but I could not bet my life on one based upon past experience.
In all fairness one must remember that when the police departments had the Sigma, they were still under British QC and one can bet the new owners are doing a much better job than was being done when first they showed on the market.
UF
You asked for comparison and recommends.
First, there must be a reason why EVERY police department who was forced into buying the Sigma, could not get rid of them fast enough. To this day, they hate them and will not be issued a Sigma if they can avoid it and that alone has kept me from even considering the Sigma for anything.
Next, I have a rental counter at my range and quit trying to keep S&W firearms to rent because they break so often it was untenable. I have a couple of the newer revolvers, (since the Brits got out of the gun business) and they do a little better than the others. But their autos have not done well in my program, especially the Sigma. It lasted only three months.
On the other hand, I have all of the models of Glocks and XDs and they keep on shooting for hundreds of thousands of rounds before being turned in for a new model and even then the old ones are refurbished at the factory and sent back to me with a new gun warranty to be sold and used for thousands more rounds. At most we see broken main springs and magazine failures but they just keep on shooting with very little maintenance and not cleaned as often as you and I clean our personal guns.
I know people who have one of the newest renditions of the Sigma and they seem to be working fine, but I could not bet my life on one based upon past experience.
In all fairness one must remember that when the police departments had the Sigma, they were still under British QC and one can bet the new owners are doing a much better job than was being done when first they showed on the market.
Good luck, stay safe, always.
UF
Sorry guys I did not realize I had hit the submit button to send the first thread before I finished.
I am not computer literate so I make mistakes and don't know how to correct them. If it is possible to delete the first reply, I would do so and if not perhaps our great moderator could do so for me.
Thank you and once again, MY BAD.
Kenny
Regarding the Sigma...
A training venue that sees a lot of them advises students to bring a spare gun if they're planning to shoot a Sigma. Or have an armorer standing by.
Each of several agencies that used them had a multitude of issues, mostly unresolved even with replacement guns. They then had to beg LE firearm dealers for a trade allowance toward something else.
Eventually, S&W was unable to give them away to agencies transitioning or standardizing.
The "Enhanced" wasn't, and the eval guns I had in my hands failed to fire at an alarming rate. Subsequent samples were little better.
A S&W sales rep was heard saying that the Sigma wasn't suitable for a LE gun, but was fine for the commercial market. (My kingdom for a tape recorder.)
There are examples of those that run. Their use is usually minimal in volume and instensity.
That's what I know first-hand.
This is coming from a die hard Smith and Wesson man:
The Sigma is shit. It belongs with other "throw downs" like Lorcins and Hi-points. That pistol harmed the reputation of my favorite pistol maker. To this day I still have to convince people the M&P is GOOD and not a Sigma when I show them one.
The G23 is a good gun. The M&P40 is better.
If compact is what you're looking for, check out the M&P40C. I have yet to meet an M&P owner that disliked it.
If the only choice is the Smegma or the Glock.......there is no choice. Get the Glock.
As a S&W LE Dealer, the Sigma is not worthy of holding my door open. The M&P on the other hand is superior to the Glock IMHO. ;)
C4
The Sigma has not proven itself in the same way Glock has (LE, Civ, Mil applications). Difficult to compare the two.
I am suprised you shot the G23 and Sigma the same. The Sigma's I have fired had a very heavy trigger pull.
Please don't take this the wrong way.
But the Sigma is a big P.O.S. Please consider a .40 S&W M&P series pistol instead.
+1 on that...
just got a m&p 40 with 200 rounds through it and love it....heard nothing but bad stuff with the sigma...
evilmonkey
06-18-08, 00:10
Sigma if you want a gun to practice malfunction drills Glock if you want a gun that works all the time:cool: . M&P's are damn good guns but I dont believe they are superior to the glocks! I will never own a Glock in .40 again, at least not the 22 model( Don't have any experience with the 23 or 27) because of the issue's I had with it. If you want a 9mm go with glock, if you want a .40 go with M&P, if you want .45, well thats a whole different discussion since I still haven't found one that I would trust my life with!
I need advice from people on which they would bet their life on b/c this gun will be a conceal carry. I do not want to venture away from the .40 round but I am open to suggestions on other guns about the same size/build. Also i am wanting to spend $500 or less. Add pics of of your guns if you want because style does count.
Thanks guys
I totally understand not wanting to spend money you don't have to, but asking to bet your life on $500 or less for CC? It seems a bit conflicted, saving the extra few hundred dollars to make the difference would seem petty if you ever had to use it. That being said, I also agree with the majority, you should be able to get a compact S&W M&P for near your price range.
Sigma if you want a gun to practice malfunction drills Glock if you want a gun that works all the time:cool: . M&P's are damn good guns but I dont believe they are superior to the glocks! I will never own a Glock in .40 again, at least not the 22 model( Don't have any experience with the 23 or 27) because of the issue's I had with it. If you want a 9mm go with glock, if you want a .40 go with M&P, if you want .45, well thats a whole different discussion since I still haven't found one that I would trust my life with!
I love my G27 for small CC. I did just pick up a full size M&P 40 and while I'm trying to like the trigger it feels really heavy and grinds though from what I'm told that loosens up after a few hundred rounds (if it doesn't then it's off for a trigger job). Either the G27 or the SW M&P 40C can be picked up for under $500. As stated above the Sigma is just a cheap PoS.
evilmonkey
06-18-08, 20:35
b_saan let me save you time and ammo go ahead and send it off for the trigger job! Mine only has about 400rds through it but I compared mine and a guy I shoot IDPA with and his has about 7 or 8000 rds through it and it still feels about the same as mine so im going to send it off in the next month or so.
Sigma is a piece of junk. While I love 9 mm Glocks and can highly recommend the G19 or G17, I am not a fan of Glocks in other calibers. The S&W .40 M&P is outstanding.
So--get a G19 or a .40 M&P.
I totally understand not wanting to spend money you don't have to, but asking to bet your life on $500 or less for CC? It seems a bit conflicted, saving the extra few hundred dollars to make the difference would seem petty if you ever had to use it. That being said, I also agree with the majority, you should be able to get a compact S&W M&P for near your price range.
I believe that it is very possible to find a great cc gun for $500 or under. Case in point I bought a Bersa Ultra Compact for $350 and I have put over 850 rounds through it w/o a failure. 400 of those rounds were wolf ammo and still no failure + i believe it has a lifetime warranty. Despite owning an XD and a 1911 the Bersa stays under the pillow at night. The only problem is, it has a very heavy metal frame which helps to cut down on the .45 recoil but can be uncomfortable when carrying. That is why i was considering the Sigma but now that is out and it is down to the M&P or Glock. The biggest problem I have with many of the gun manufactures is many of them are upping the price of their products due to reputation and nothing else. For example I bought the XD in 2005 and since then the price has gone up about $90 and the only extra is a mag holder and speed loader with Springfield Armory. I do understand the principals of supply and demand but it is still and agervation to me to pay $600 for a gun that should only cost $500. Thats not worth $90. maybe some will disagree. I'll get off my soapbox now and shut up for a while.
Maybe some of you guys can tell me why we are all being subjected to higher prices on firearms. Is this a secret government plan to keep guns out of the hands of the average citizen?
Perhaps it has something to do with the cost of raw materials going up.
Perhaps it has something to do with the cost of fuel going up
Perhaps it has something to do with the cost of labor going up
That'd be my guess.
Bob
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