View Full Version : Apex FSS & light primer strikes?
I've got a new production M&P that I recently picked up. Upon bringing it home, I immediately swapped out the trigger for an Apex FSS. I've put about 500 rounds through it in two weeks, with about half being Winchester 124 gr NATO spec ammo. I've had two failure to fire malfunctions. In both cases, the primers had a very small indent in the primer and fired after being rechambered. After the second occurrence, I started looking more closely at the primer strikes on the spent cases. They all look fairly shallow, but I've had no ignition issues with federal and hotshot Serbian brass cased ammo, which I assume had softer commercial primers.
So here's the question, is there anything about the FSS kit that could effect the strength of the striker impact on the primer? FYI, I've used the FSS without issue in a 2011 model M&P for three years.
TacticalMark
09-12-14, 20:06
I don't think so brother, I would suspect the striker to be the issue. I don't know for sure and I'm not a M&P expert. I remember S&W has changed striker assemblies a few times and I think Grant sells the latest version.
I don't think so brother, I would suspect the striker to be the issue. I don't know for sure and I'm not a M&P expert. I remember S&W has changed striker assemblies a few times and I think Grant sells the latest version.
I don't think so either, but I wanted to see if anyone else had run across something similar. This is an April 2014 gun, so all the parts should be current generation. The trigger bar, slide stop & barrel are definitely the most recent revisions. I'm going to strip the slide and clean out the striker channel to be sure nothing is impeding the striker travel.
The FSS kit itself doesn't do anything to the striker, so I can't see how it would.
Hm.
500 rounds.
Have you previously taken down the slide?
My guess would be that the two rounds that didn't go were hit slightly off center because the weapon wasn't all the way into battery for some reason. A guess would be dirty or dry, but wouldn't think dirty enough after 500 rounds.
Since you've shot them you may not remember, but next time you get a fail to fire compare and see if the strikes on the ones that don't go are centered in the same place as the ones that fired before you hit it again.
500 rounds.
Have you previously taken down the slide?
My guess would be that the two rounds that didn't go were hit slightly off center because the weapon wasn't all the way into battery for some reason. A guess would be dirty or dry, but wouldn't think dirty enough after 500 rounds.
Since you've shot them you may not remember, but next time you get a fail to fire compare and see if the strikes on the ones that don't go are centered in the same place as the ones that fired before you hit it again.
Yes, 500 rounds. It's a new pistol. I've put thousands through an identical MP9 without issue. The strikes were centered and very shallow. Most of the spent brass exhibits similar shallow strikes, but were hit hard enough to go bang. I'll try to get some pics up shortly.
JackFanToM
09-12-14, 21:22
I had the same exact issue. It has to do with the timing on the trigger bar loop. It isn't lifting the plunger and releasing the striker at the correct time. I fiddled with it for months, and was able to get it to be much improved but never completely gone. I even tried a stronger striker spring, swapped out sears, plungers, trigger bars, striker assemblies, and in the end I went to the dcaek to find relief. In all honesty I dropped the m&p due to not being able to get the fss to function, as that is the trigger feel I wanted, and had it worked I would still have that handgun. I now have a PPQ, and couldn't be happier. I would truly be interested in your solution, if you are able to achieve one, but I guarantee it is in the loop on the trigger bar, as that is what got it to go from every 5th or 6th round to every 30th or so.
I had the same exact issue. It has to do with the timing on the trigger bar loop. It isn't lifting the plunger and releasing the striker at the correct time. I fiddled with it for months, and was able to get it to be much improved but never completely gone. I even tried a stronger striker spring, swapped out sears, plungers, trigger bars, striker assemblies, and in the end I went to the dcaek to find relief. In all honesty I dropped the m&p due to not being able to get the fss to function, as that is the trigger feel I wanted, and had it worked I would still have that handgun. I now have a PPQ, and couldn't be happier. I would truly be interested in your solution, if you are able to achieve one, but I guarantee it is in the loop on the trigger bar, as that is what got it to go from every 5th or 6th round to every 30th or so.
Mine isn't quite as serious as the issue you had, but I was suspicious that the loop may be playing a role. So far it's only happened with the NATO spec ammo, which I also suspect has a harder primer. Maybe it won't take much adjustment. It's strange, since I've used the FSS for 3+ years with no issues, but I beleive that the new trigger bar (H marked) incorporated a change to the loop geometry. I'll try to open it up and see if it improves. I haven't seen Randy around here lately, so a call to Apex may be in order first.
Interesting. My friend Ross (red head guy you talked with) had some light strikes in the Langdon class with his M&P that has the fancy Apex trigger and other parts.
What made you get that gun when you have the PPQ and VP9?
Interesting. My friend Ross (red head guy you talked with) had some light strikes in the Langdon class with his M&P that has the fancy Apex trigger and other parts.
What made you get that gun when you have the PPQ and VP9?
I've had M&Ps for a long while & am pretty invested in mags, holsters etc. It's been my primary, in spite of my adventures on the side with the PPQ and VP9. Like we talked about, I like trying different guns that I find interesting. I wanted to upgrade the 2011 model gun with a new barrel (new twist rate), new trigger bar and new slide stop (improved reset). But it was cheaper to sell the old one and buy new than it was to buy all the upgrade parts. The new MP9 is more accurate than the old one with a much improved reset, but it looks like I may have an issue with the FSS.
Can you send me Ross' contact info?
That's a bummer. I just bought all of the Apex parts for mine that I bought earlier this year. Randy hasn't been around I don't think, he never responded to a PM I sent him a few months ago. Keep us updated.
That's a bummer. I just bought all of the Apex parts for mine that I bought earlier this year. Randy hasn't been around I don't think, he never responded to a PM I sent him a few months ago. Keep us updated.
I've had Apex kits in 4 different guns and never had an issue, but it does happen sometimes. I'm pretty sure that I can get it sorted out though.
Exiledviking
09-13-14, 09:23
OP, if you haven't pulled out out the striker assembly and inspected both the assembly and the slide I would recommend doing so. I had a similar issue and found some debris in the cut out in the slide & in the striker assembly. If those are good reach out to Apex and see what they have to say. Their CS is stellar.
OP, if you haven't pulled out out the striker assembly and inspected both the assembly and the slide I would recommend doing so. I had a similar issue and found some debris in the cut out in the slide & in the striker assembly. If those are good reach out to Apex and see what they have to say. Their CS is stellar.
I stripped it down last night and cleaned the striker channel. Going to put a couple hundred through it today to see what happens.
The timing is off with the striker block. I've had this issue with one of my FSS guns. Call Randy @ Apex.
You could also replace the striker spring with a Glock extra power spring. It fits perfectly. I've been running my M&P this way for a few thou, it works well.
Matt,
I just pm you Ross's email.
JackFanToM
09-13-14, 22:00
Get an extra power striker spring here
http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=103_90_116&products_id=1022
Extra Power Striker Spring + Striker Block not out of way = Bad.
Update, I spoke to Apex yesterday. Their recommendation was to close the loop slightly in order to delay sear engagement and allow the trigger bar more travel to engage the striker block. Fired 250 rounds today, Winchester 124 NATO and federal fmj. No issues. I think I've got it fixed, but will keep an eye on this one for a little while to be sure.
Ross here... Nice to meet you at the class. My setup is not the FSS, rather the DCAEK and polymer trigger. I had light strikes with some Wolf steel case the first day and switched to brass case the second day with no issues. I have the reduced power striker spring installed and assume that to be the culprit - or it could be the batch of Wolf I had. Unlikely, but possible. I'll probably just put the factory striker spring back in and see if that resolves the issue with Wolf.
Ross here... Nice to meet you at the class. My setup is not the FSS, rather the DCAEK and polymer trigger. I had light strikes with some Wolf steel case the first day and switched to brass case the second day with no issues. I have the reduced power striker spring installed and assume that to be the culprit - or it could be the batch of Wolf I had. Unlikely, but possible. I'll probably just put the factory striker spring back in and see if that resolves the issue with Wolf.
Thanks Ross, it was good to meet you as well. Thanks for the clarification on your set up. I had some issues with Hot Shot brass cased that may have been ammo related (dead primers). Those rounds would not fire after repeated strikes. The ones that really alerted me to an issue were the Winchester 124 NATO rounds. I put 100 rounds of the Winchester loads and 150 Federal fmj through the gun yesterday without any problems. It's still too early to call it good, but I may have it straightened out.
I really enjoyed talking with you the other day. We need to try to get together with Sam for a range day. Hint, hint Sam! ;)
Mine isn't quite as serious as the issue you had, but I was suspicious that the loop may be playing a role. So far it's only happened with the NATO spec ammo, which I also suspect has a harder primer. Maybe it won't take much adjustment. It's strange, since I've used the FSS for 3+ years with no issues, but I beleive that the new trigger bar (H marked) incorporated a change to the loop geometry. I'll try to open it up and see if it improves. I haven't seen Randy around here lately, so a call to Apex may be in order first.
You always have to adjust the trigger bar loops with an Apex Sear IMHO, but a lot of times people go TO far. Just needs to open up a little.
C4
You always have to adjust the trigger bar loops with an Apex Sear IMHO, but a lot of times people go TO far. Just needs to open up a little.
C4
When I talked to Apex, they advised me to close the loop for a light strike. I guess I got lucky the first time around, as it worked in a different gun without a single failure over several thousand rounds.
When I talked to Apex, they advised me to close the loop for a light strike. I guess I got lucky the first time around, as it worked in a different gun without a single failure over several thousand rounds.
The loop is closed when you start. You open it up slightly, fire the gun and then go from there.
C4
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