View Full Version : Different types of shooters
So I have been logging some hours with the general shooting populace lately and have come to some conclusions. People own firearms for a multitude of reasons. Here is what I have come up with:
1. Collector (Rarely shoots, but wants everyone to know he is a big gun guy and most likely couldn't hit the side of a barn).
2. Hunter (Shoots more than the collector, but generally only at fury critters. Typically knows his hunting gun, but that is about it. Believes firearms and the second amendment is for hunting purposes.)
3. Plinker (Owns several cheap guns and just likes to have fun. Lots of time spent shooting cans, dirt, etc. Knows that guns can be used for self defense, but doesn't have his carry license and guns are not loaded in the home).
4. CCW Holder (Has his permit to carry concealed and owns between 1-3 firearms. Does not practice, doesn't attend training, but understands what 2A is about).
5. Gamer (Believes that guns are like Golf Clubs and there only purpose is to compete in a "sport". Have generally never taken any kind of tactics classes and spends more time NOT carrying a gun than carrying. Knows about 2A, but never donates any money to safeguard it.
6. Training junkie (Attends a lot of training, is constantly looking for the next class to get his "fix." Typically never gets any better because he doesn't not practice what has been taught. Has money and wants everyone else to know it by the "exotic" guns and gear being used).
7. The Realist (Attends marksmanship and tactics training. Takes what he has learned and practices it. Seeks knowledge in all areas of defensive training (knife, unarmed, etc). Carries a gun 12hrs a day, has high situational awareness and preparedness. Supports 2A initiatives that safeguard this right and is actively involved in elections. Is not interested in Zombie apocalypse BS or wearing a badge that says "terrorist hunter." )
Percentages. What number of the shooting populace fall into the above categories? Here is my guess:
1. 5%
2. 40%
3. 35%
4. 80%
5. 15%
6. 15%
7. 5%
So the numbers combined equal 195. Why? Because there is quite a bit of cross pollination going on. The hunter has his CCW and likes to plink. The gamer likes to hunt and has his CCW. The collector likesto hunt and plink. Etc, etc, etc. The realist number is so low because he is a very good shooter, knows tactics and views guns a tool to defend what is important. In other words, he fully "gets it." We don't see many of these people on in the "wild."
I personally identify with most all these categories. :) It was all meant in fun (so please no hate mail/angry phone calls) and is why it is in the GD forum. Based of your personal experience, feel free to add onto the categories and percentages.
C4
brickboy240
09-15-14, 09:51
You left out the Fudds!
Fudds are the tweed jacket wearing, Range Rover driving guys that shoot over/unders that cost more than your car. The guys that shop at Orvis and are Ducks Unlimited or Quail Unlimited or Safari Club members. Their dogs cost thousands and are AKC registered pure bred designer dogs.
Guys that don't think anyone should own an "assault rifle" and many of these guys also vote Democrat. They might claim they are "gun guys" but in reality they are not.
Guys that are snobby elitists and not really for gun rights the way we think of gun rights.
...you know....Fudds!
-brickboy240
You left out the Fudds!
Fudds are the tweed jacket wearing, Range Rover driving guys that shoot over/unders that cost more than your car. The guys that shop at Orvis and are Ducks Unlimited or Quail Unlimited or Safari Club members. Their dogs cost thousands and are AKC registered pure bred designer dogs.
Guys that don't think anyone should own an "assault rifle" and many of these guys also vote Democrat. They might claim they are "gun guys" but in reality they are not.
Guys that are snobby elitists and not really for gun rights the way we think of gun rights.
...you know....Fudds!
-brickboy240
Fudds and hunters are the same animal. They are just a small subsection of the hunting group. Like the "zombie hunters." They are a small subsection of the plinker/CCW group.
C4
You left out the Fudds!
Fudds are the tweed jacket wearing, Range Rover driving guys that shoot over/unders that cost more than your car. The guys that shop at Orvis and are Ducks Unlimited or Quail Unlimited or Safari Club members. Their dogs cost thousands and are AKC registered pure bred designer dogs.
Guys that don't think anyone should own an "assault rifle" and many of these guys also vote Democrat. They might claim they are "gun guys" but in reality they are not.
Guys that are snobby elitists and not really for gun rights the way we think of gun rights.
...you know....Fudds!
-brickboy240
I work with a neurosurgeon in this group. His shotguns are worth more than either of my vehicles, and he self-admittedly cannot hit squat, but he loves to shoot in skeet/trap shoots.
Grant, I think this is about right, and your presumed percentages does follow a bell curve, so you are probably more right than you think.
I work with a neurosurgeon in this group. His shotguns are worth more than either of my vehicles, and he self-admittedly cannot hit squat, but he loves to shoot in skeet/trap shoots.
Grant, I think this is about right, and your presumed percentages does follow a bell curve, so you are probably more right than you think.
LOL, I have been a gun dealer for going on 11yrs. I attend a lot of training and am now spending time with the "general shooting public." So I think I am making some educated guesses here. ;)
For whatever reason, the "cup and saucer" is the grip of choice. Not sure why, but everyone does it.
C4
4DAIVI PAI2K5
09-15-14, 10:31
Grant, you got me in the the last 5% so thank you.
Just gonna add thoughts on this fella as that's the category I try to mirror best I can:
7. The Realist (Attends marksmanship and tactics training. Takes what he has learned and practices it. Seeks knowledge in all areas of defensive training (knife, unarmed, etc). Carries a gun 12hrs a day, has high situational awareness and preparedness. Supports 2A initiatives that safeguard this right and is actively involved in elections. Is not interested in Zombie apocalypse BS or wearing a badge that says "terrorist hunter." ). Would rather be proficient with a few platforms than finger fu&% a large collection and proficient with none. Would rather spend $$$ on ammo for range time than more guns per se. Is not HSLD, but likely better than 90%+ of the gun owners around him/her where it matters, and knows non shooting skills such as drawing from concealment, clearance drills, etc just as important as being dead eye dick accurate on a static range. Understands the pros/cons of competitions like IDPA but does not take them too seriously or view them as training.
Edit as needed. :neo:
Grant, you got me in the the last 5% so thank you.
Yep, that is you for certain! ;)
C4
4DAIVI PAI2K5
09-15-14, 11:09
Yep, that is you for certain! ;)
C4
Although I do have 1 zombie patch lol
BoringGuy45
09-15-14, 13:45
Fudds and hunters are the same animal. They are just a small subsection of the hunting group. Like the "zombie hunters." They are a small subsection of the plinker/CCW group.
C4
I think the category of Fudd actually extends to many different categories of shooters. Often, they are collectors, gamers, hunters, a combination of two or all three. Those 3 categories contain a lot of people who have no issue with non-sporting guns or those who own them. A fudd is someone, IMO, who is either an aggressive traditionalist (softcore) or a liberal (hardcore)
Softcore Fudds: They strongly dislike anything not strictly intended for sport or is not "old stuff." They have a very haughty attitude anytime they encounter anyone with a weapon that falls outside their narrow interests. They'll stiffen their upper lip and comment how modern tactical rifles just doesn't impress them (they all use that line for some reason) and they see no reason for anyone to own them, and how semiauto pistols are junk and they wish everyone would go back to revolvers. Softcore fudds will support the right to own just about any weapon either out of principal or the worry that if the guns they hate are banned, the guns they love will be next. Generally though, they are insufferable pricks who, even if they support your right to own non-fudd guns, make it known that you are an affront to the firearms world. They're often on the boards of many rod and gun clubs and will prohibit using ARs on their range or using high capacity magazines in pistols. Unlike hardcore fudds, they tend to be ultraconservative and hate modern weapons more out of the principal that firearms technology and culture needs to go back to about 1955 and stay there from now till Kingdom Come.
Hardcore Fudds: A rarer breed these days, though very common in the 80s and 90s, before the AR became an in thing. These are guys who own only the expensive over/unders and black powder rifles and believe that either the 2nd Amendment only applied to militias or it should be repealed. They think that limiting people to maybe 1 BP rifle and one shotgun and requiring them to be stored at the police department is perfectly reasonable. They're the ones usually writing op-ed pieces for the Huffpost, Daily Kos, or Salon with titles like "I'm a Gun Owner AND I Oppose the 2nd Amendment" and how their experience in the military or with a LE agency has given them the expertise to say that "assault rifles" have no place in civilian hands. While they do often participate in hunting or clay shooting and do take pride in their expensive firearms, they take more pride in being a leftist, anti-gun gun owner than anything else.
What about The Realist who lives behind enemy lines and *is not allowed to* carry 12 hours a day :(
ETA: Fixed my dumb ass mistake...
What about The Realist who lives behind enemy lines and carry 12 hours a day :(
Lots of people carry concealed 12hrs a day. Somewhat normal with the friends I have.
C4
Good fun and a good read Grant. Thank you.
I was a "cup and saucer" guy for 22 years before I took my fist class a number of years ago. Glad those days are long gone.
I propose we all do what we can to bring numbers 1-6 up to number 7s. Thanks to all the instructors out there.
I think the category of Fudd actually extends to many different categories of shooters. Often, they are collectors, gamers, hunters, a combination of two or all three. Those 3 categories contain a lot of people who have no issue with non-sporting guns or those who own them. A fudd is someone, IMO, who is either an aggressive traditionalist (softcore) or a liberal (hardcore)
Softcore Fudds: They strongly dislike anything not strictly intended for sport or is not "old stuff." They have a very haughty attitude anytime they encounter anyone with a weapon that falls outside their narrow interests. They'll stiffen their upper lip and comment how modern tactical rifles just doesn't impress them (they all use that line for some reason) and they see no reason for anyone to own them, and how semiauto pistols are junk and they wish everyone would go back to revolvers. Softcore fudds will support the right to own just about any weapon either out of principal or the worry that if the guns they hate are banned, the guns they love will be next. Generally though, they are insufferable pricks who, even if they support your right to own non-fudd guns, make it known that you are an affront to the firearms world. They're often on the boards of many rod and gun clubs and will prohibit using ARs on their range or using high capacity magazines in pistols. Unlike hardcore fudds, they tend to be ultraconservative and hate modern weapons more out of the principal that firearms technology and culture needs to go back to about 1955 and stay there from now till Kingdom Come.
Hardcore Fudds: A rarer breed these days, though very common in the 80s and 90s, before the AR became an in thing. These are guys who own only the expensive over/unders and black powder rifles and believe that either the 2nd Amendment only applied to militias or it should be repealed. They think that limiting people to maybe 1 BP rifle and one shotgun and requiring them to be stored at the police department is perfectly reasonable. They're the ones usually writing op-ed pieces for the Huffpost, Daily Kos, or Salon with titles like "I'm a Gun Owner AND I Oppose the 2nd Amendment" and how their experience in the military or with a LE agency has given them the expertise to say that "assault rifles" have no place in civilian hands. While they do often participate in hunting or clay shooting and do take pride in their expensive firearms, they take more pride in being a leftist, anti-gun gun owner than anything else.
WOW, you have put some effort into this!
C4
Good fun and a good read Grant. Thank you.
I was a "cup and saucer" guy for 22 years before I took my fist class a number of years ago. Glad those days are long gone.
I propose we all do what we can to bring numbers 1-6 up to number 7s. Thanks to all the instructors out there.
Interesting note. I have attempted to help the people that are using the "cup and saucer" method of shooting and they generally smile and go right back to it without even trying a "proper" grip.
Ignorance is bliss I guess......
C4
No "operator" category? :sarcastic:
What about mall ninjas? Do those still exist?
There needs to be a full Cartesian graph on this, as it's more than just a simple continuum. Gotta fit that Douchebag (DB) Factor in there
No "operator" category? :sarcastic:
Ya, thought about it. If I did though, I would have to do a "zombie response team" group. Their numbers are too small to have their own classification at this time I think.
C4
There needs to be a full Cartesian graph on this, as it's more than just a simple continuum. Gotta fit that Douchebag (DB) Factor in there
DB factor you say? Hmmm, can you give us some examples please? I am concerned that we might be thinking to two entirely different groups (and I don't want to miss out on your definition as I just might have to add them to mine)!
C4
What about mall ninjas? Do those still exist?
Again, another sub group (like zombie hunters, terrorist "hunting permit" DB's and operator). They are alive an well and I do see them, but their numbers are lower than assumed I think.
C4
Interesting note. I have attempted to help the people that are using the "cup and saucer" method of shooting and they generally smile and go right back to it without even trying a "proper" grip.
Ignorance is bliss I guess......
Really... I abandoned the technique as fast as I could, and was glad there were no photos to prove I ever looked like such an idiot...
My first real class was an eye opener.
Lots of people carry concealed 12hrs a day. Somewhat normal with the friends I have.
C4
POOP!
I screwed up Grant... should have said "Realist who can't carry 12 hours a day. As in now allowed by law.
D'OH!
POOP!
I screwed up Grant... should have said "Realist who can't carry 12 hours a day. As in now allowed by law.
D'OH!
Oh, ok gotcha. That makes more sense.
C4
Really... I abandoned the technique as fast as I could, and was glad there were no photos to prove I ever looked like such an idiot...
My first real class was an eye opener.
Well, you must have high amounts of common sense then.
The only people I really try and "save" are the ones that put their weak hand behind the slide (directly inline with it) as I don't want to see blood everywhere. The rest of them can wallow in stupidville.
C4
ramairthree
09-15-14, 17:01
Yeah, there is a ton of overlap.
In addition,
I see
"The Grunts"- guys that are LE, or basic military background, do a little hunting, have a dozen guns of different variety, hunt a little, might carry, ready to defend home, maybe go to a match once in a while. Basically an all around good bunch of guys that are not all that worked up over having the top of the line STI, unicorn horn bolts, most talked about light, etc. or been to the latest training. Get shit for having a Mini-14 or that Bushmaster they bought in 1990 still.
"The Spartans"- guys than have been shot at and shot back, had a SOF qual military background, either still in, a civy, or LE now- sort of like the above, but have more guns, mix of high end and basic, little more concerned with durability of kit but not all that interested in who the latest training personality is, or upgrading rails to keymod, etc. Again a good bunch of guys. Get shit for running an EoTech or other piece of kit they use at work instead of ordering the first updated T1.
"The Provers"
Have every latest kit, set shit up exactly like their favorite instructor of the month, ensure every purchase is the "in" thing- correct others at the range (or gunstore) with their vast knowledge and experience. Often a "Training Junkie" that often talks about what SEAL they trained with and how many Delta Guys they have had for instructors, etc. Occasionally they actually are a very good shooter but usually not. Annoying.
"The Pseudo-Rater"
Adopts all manner of clothing, looks, glasses, kit, weapons, speech, etc. of an Operator and attempts to leave the impression they have this background. May actually be a good shot, instructor, or gamer and may actually have some non-SOF or LEO background- but usually not and more often a "Prover."
Should there be an internet commando that resides mostly on forums?
Outlander Systems
09-15-14, 17:29
"The Anomaly"
Has CCW License, but never carries.
I know a metric shit ton of these guys.
What if you are a collector, who is a CCW holder, who used to be a training junkie, spent time as a plinker, used to hunt years ago but lost interest / can't find time and is doing his best to be a realist without being ridiculous about it?
Good list Grant.
I think you may have missed a couple of types:
8. The Tacticool Ninja gun owner - a gun owner who likes to modify his guns unnecessarily, and may have other gear (vests, bags, ax/knives, etc). Shoots very little but brags a lot. Most likely a poor-fair shooter at best.
9. Gangsters - a person who may or may not be a legal gun owner. Carries whatever he can get depending on budget, whether its $200 pistols or chromed Desert Eagles. Thinks the sideways gangster style shooting is cool. These 'gangsters' may reside in the bad parts of town.
Again, another sub group (like zombie hunters, terrorist "hunting permit" DB's and operator). They are alive an well and I do see them, but their numbers are lower than assumed I think.
C4
I missed your post above. I think more of these people exist than we know. Many of them have Youtube videos of their 'highly modified' AR15's, AK's, or SKS's.
My former roommate is one of them. He had a safe-full of pistols and long guns, likes to modify them, but shoots like 2-3x a year at most. One time we went to a 3Gun event and he didn't even zero his optic for a rifle-only stage and could not hit his targets at all.
Think you should add the Range Nazi: Usually the guy who doesn't really shoot much, but spends a lot of his time at the range and likes yelling at and bossing around shooters telling them what they can and can not do, whether that is in line with the actual rules or just his interpretation. For examples, controlled pairs=full auto fire and he demands to inspect your rifle for illegal modifications. Or says that pumpkins will deflect a .308 so you can't shoot them, but does care about the guy who has the metal spinner target set up at 10 feet and is unloading on it with a 10/22.
Also, gun club drunks, the guys who belong to the club simply because it is cheap to drink, may or may not actually own a gun, not that they are ever sober enough to shoot it, and bitch whenever actual shooters show up to, god forbid, shoot guns.
jerrysimons
09-15-14, 22:55
Active?
;)
DB factor you say? Hmmm, can you give us some examples please? I am concerned that we might be thinking to two entirely different groups (and I don't want to miss out on your definition as I just might have to add them to mine)!
C4
What if you are a collector, who is a CCW holder, who used to be a training junkie, spent time as a plinker, used to hunt years ago but lost interest / can't find time and is doing his best to be a realist without being ridiculous about it?
What about the above without the training, who loves to fire anything from black powder to an Anzio ironworks 20mm, and knows people who can actually afford this stuff? My collection sadly was destroyed in the fire boating accident fukkin Katrina, and a bunch if other stuff.
The MOLLE Fanatic
The guy just got his first AR yesterday, and proceeded to bolt on every POS accessory from the cheaper than dirt catalog, including the obligatory Beta mag.
Then while he and his brotastic friends were high-fiving over how "keeewwwwwwwl deeewwwwd" it is while plotting the next accessorizing binge, they discovered tactical vests, generally the type of blackhawk- style design that's been dead since the 90's. Well, everyone knows you can't have an AR without the proper tactical accessories so they order up.
Generally the guys you see on the range shooting from the bench with the all-molle full vests without a single pouch on it. Or 3 dozen pouches without a single item in one of them. And don't forget the "3 sizes to big for an AR" soft case strapped in 6 pounds of extra Molle with pouches for a deployment's worth of gear and a small inflatable pony to carry it all- or worse, "backpack" straps that they think will actually make it a usable pack. "Yeah, Breh, I can shoot off it like a sniper!" never mind the cloud of dust surrounding their general area from all the dirt that's been killed. If given time and enough money, they eventually morph into either Mall Ninjas or Zombie Hunters.
The Helpful Idiot
You go to the range for refresher trip- All you want is a peaceful hour or two to run some drills by yourself without being interrupted... When suddenly out of the blue this twat shows up. Often they preface their ambushes by "noticing" your firearm, or a piece of gear or so forth. And then.... the advice giving starts.
Now, you know you're a decent shooter, and you know that what you've been working on is correct, but this guy knows that it's NOT.
Generally the guy that knows everything about everything- except it's all wrong. But you can't tell him that because A) he won't believe you, since you're the guy that has to pay to use the range, and B) there is ALWAYS another bullshit "fact" for him to pull out of his ass to prove you wrong. And if there's no fact, then a helpful anecdote about either a family member who stormed the beaches, or his second uncle on his gran'pappy's side who's been a cop since before time began, or his own experience "in combat".
The grand irony of it all is that aside form being an ignorant insulting ass, he now thinks he's your best friend. He won't just leave you the **** alone, and will most likely end up literally following you to your car all the while wasting valuable oxygen with his inane blathering.
Very funny, yet true. Good list Grant!
I'll add one. Maybe 0.05% of the total gun-owning population yet a dedicated and deserving bunch:
NFA Enthusiast
• Got into military small arms almost exclusively because of the emma gees and at some point, felt "excited" paying 3X more than their car was worth for a single NFA item.
• Can name at least 10 rare MGs, along with their provenance, that the neither the Collector, Hunter nor Plinker have heard of.
• Although they will chat about 1968, 1994 and 1998, they would much rather wax poetic about the true injustices of 1934 and 1986!
• Bought surplus ammo by the pallet, loaded up mags/belts for weeks prior to a big shoot if only to enjoy the grins plastered on noobies' faces after a safe weekend of ripping 200rd bursts, melting barrels and blowing shit up.
• Talking history, troubleshooting and modifications while truly learning something from RKIs and SMEs with a lifetime of experience like Kent Lomont, Dan Shea, Norrell, Landies, Naess, Todd, Dyer, Higgins, etc.
• Not only remember, but actually posted, bought and sold on the very first Internet gun board (F.J. Vollmer's!) and became obsessed with constantly "dialing up" to check on new MG deals.
• After decades of attendance to Knob Creek, they still feel the hairs on their arms stand up as the main line goes hot and they remember how unbelievably lucky we are, and how amazing this country is.
Very funny, yet true. Good list Grant!
I'll add one. Maybe 0.05% of the total gun-owning population yet a dedicated and deserving bunch:
NFA Enthusiast
• Got into military small arms almost exclusively because of the emma gees and at some point, felt "excited" paying 3X more than their car was worth for a single NFA item.
• Can name at least 10 rare MGs, along with their provenance, that the neither the Collector, Hunter nor Plinker have heard of.
• Although they will chat about 1968, 1994 and 1998, they would much rather wax poetic about the true injustices of 1934 and 1986!
• Bought surplus ammo by the pallet, loaded up mags/belts for weeks prior to a big shoot if only to enjoy the grins plastered on noobies' faces after a safe weekend of ripping 200rd bursts, melting barrels and blowing shit up.
• Talking history, troubleshooting and modifications while truly learning something from RKIs and SMEs with a lifetime of experience like Kent Lomont, Dan Shea, Norrell, Landies, Naess, Todd, Dyer, Higgins, etc.
• Not only remember, but actually posted, bought and sold on the very first Internet gun board (F.J. Vollmer's!) and became obsessed with constantly "dialing up" to check on new MG deals.
• After decades of attendance to Knob Creek, they still feel the hairs on their arms stand up as the main line goes hot and they remember how unbelievably lucky we are, and how amazing this country is.
REAL NFA Enthusiast know that there was a ban on the importation of foreign machine guns in the 1968 gun control act. This is why all foreign machine guns imported after that date are "pre may" dealer samples and not transferable. It is also why nearly every MP5 out there began life as a HK 94 although there are rumors of a handful of 1964 date import "all factory" transferable MP5s.
Crap I think I just fell into another category.
:sarcastic:
I've got a good friend that falls between a CC permit holder, collector, and plinker. I try to correct the way he shoots, and give him helpful hints, but to him his military training is "enough". I recommend certain trainers, training, and explain why...... but you can only lead a horse to water. Great guy, he could just open up his mind a little.
Myself I find myself taking training when needed, applying these skills through practice. My range trips are rarely static. I'm usually a better (read accurate) and faster shooter than 95% of those around me. I'm waiting on my CC permit (IL just became a CC state). I see ammo, training, and mags as a better investment than another gun or dodad. I honestly could use a good pistol class and practice more with pistol. Being a civi, I'm more likely to use that pistol than my rifle.
"The Anomaly"
Has CCW License, but never carries.
I know a metric shit ton of these guys.
Ya, pretty common.
C4
I guess Im a 2,3,6,7....possibly an "outlier" on your bell curve.
It does really annoy me that people automatically lump all hunters into the "fudd" category.
The Helpful Idiot
You go to the range for refresher trip- All you want is a peaceful hour or two to run some drills by yourself without being interrupted... When suddenly out of the blue this twat shows up. Often they preface their ambushes by "noticing" your firearm, or a piece of gear or so forth. And then.... the advice giving starts.
Now, you know you're a decent shooter, and you know that what you've been working on is correct, but this guy knows that it's NOT.
Generally the guy that knows everything about everything- except it's all wrong. But you can't tell him that because A) he won't believe you, since you're the guy that has to pay to use the range, and B) there is ALWAYS another bullshit "fact" for him to pull out of his ass to prove you wrong. And if there's no fact, then a helpful anecdote about either a family member who stormed the beaches, or his second uncle on his gran'pappy's side who's been a cop since before time began, or his own experience "in combat".
The grand irony of it all is that aside form being an ignorant insulting ass, he now thinks he's your best friend. He won't just leave you the **** alone, and will most likely end up literally following you to your car all the while wasting valuable oxygen with his inane blathering.
I think these people are lonely and just want a "friend" to share with. As a gun store owner, I get these people a lot. They think that because I talk to them, that I am there friend. They tend to have the worst ideas on the planet when it comes to guns and shooting.
C4
REAL NFA Enthusiast know that there was a ban on the importation of foreign machine guns in the 1968 gun control act. This is why all foreign machine guns imported after that date are "pre may" dealer samples and not transferable. It is also why nearly every MP5 out there began life as a HK 94 although there are rumors of a handful of 1964 date import "all factory" transferable MP5s.
Crap I think I just fell into another category.
:sarcastic:
LOL, we all fall into some of these (which is what makes it fun).
C4
Voodoo_Man
09-16-14, 09:48
I guess id fall into that #7 category, maybe, who knows.
And then there is the category of shooters that try to categorize all other shooters. :sarcastic:
Whiskey_Bravo
09-16-14, 10:51
There is also the category of shooter that "knows" he doesn't fit into any of the listed categories because he is "special and different" and is a cut above the rest.
REAL NFA Enthusiast know that there was a ban on the importation of foreign machine guns in the 1968 gun control act. This is why all foreign machine guns imported after that date are "pre may" dealer samples and not transferable. It is also why nearly every MP5 out there began life as a HK 94 although there are rumors of a handful of 1964 date import "all factory" transferable MP5s.
Crap I think I just fell into another category.
:sarcastic:
Good point!
ramairthree
09-16-14, 12:35
Crap, I forgot the
Tinkerer Modifier
May be any of the above categories,
not a real gun smith or professional armorer
Always building or working on something, has anywhere from one or two builds/projects to half a dozen laying around. Likes working on and setting up the stuff and other interests/categories make it a rare occasion all their stuff is built, tools put away, and they know where all the parts they have are.
Can last from days to years between those rare occasions.
Would be smarter to have a pro do at least half the stuff they take on,
but like to do it themselves.
Can be very financially beneficial to the pro armorers and gun smiths when they finally bring stuff in.
What if you are a collector, who is a CCW holder, who used to be a training junkie, spent time as a plinker, used to hunt years ago but lost interest / can't find time and is doing his best to be a realist without being ridiculous about it?
Then you'd probably think that list like these are only useful for amusement at best.
-john
I guess Im a 2,3,6,7....possibly an "outlier" on your bell curve.
It does really annoy me that people automatically lump all hunters into the "fudd" category.
What's ironic is that "fudds" are a big part of the reason I don't hunt anymore. Tired of their "nobody needs an Uzi" shit and seen too many reprehensible things on their part that they don't even understand is wrong when hunting.
Wish I had the time, money and a better class of "hunters" to work with. I could see how it would be damn relaxing and enjoyable with the right crew. My father LIVED to hunt, sadly I just wasn't up to their level and I was perpetually broke when he did the most serious hunting of his life.
LOL, we all fall into some of these (which is what makes it fun).
C4
I think that is why I enjoy firearms for the same reason I've enjoyed martial arts all my life. There are simply so many facets associated with them you can completely change your focus and keep the same interests.
When I got bored with tournament fighting (competition), I explored nearly every style I could find (training junkie). From the start I was fascinated with the history of martial arts, especially martial arts weaponry and I collected many examples including some vintage items (collector). Sometimes I just want to get together with friends and knock the bag around or spar (plinker).
Every time I get older and my tastes change, firearms and martial arts remain interesting.
And one day I will probably come full circle and the .308 military rifles will sit dormant and I will be content to shoot a brick of .22 from my back porch and it will be the greatest thing ever.
DB factor you say? Hmmm, can you give us some examples please? I am concerned that we might be thinking to two entirely different groups (and I don't want to miss out on your definition as I just might have to add them to mine)!
C4
I view the DB thing as more of a tab or merit badge... you have people in every category who have earned that particular qualification.
skijunkie55
09-16-14, 15:19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45glq7huJJc&list=UUWXCrItCF6ZgXrdozUS-Idw
I think I fall in a category somewhere around this guy...
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-14, 20:40
Didn't see this catagory but I think it fits some of us here:
Gun Geeks: The Gun Geek may hunt, compete in shooting competitions, attend training courses from retired pipe hitters, CCW daily, and are known to plink however they are nerds when it comes to firearms. They delve deep into the minutiae of all things firearm related and have a personal library on the subject matter. They could quote every word of The History's Channel Tales of The Gun series and can identify any firearm they see in a TV Show/movie.
Wish I had the time, money and a better class of "hunters" to work with. I could see how it would be damn relaxing and enjoyable with the right crew. My father LIVED to hunt, sadly I just wasn't up to their level and I was perpetually broke when he did the most serious hunting of his life.
Lol I wish. Put about 17 miles on my boots in three days last week in the elk mountains. Relaxing took place back at the truck after a 4hr packout in the pouring rain....with no elk.
Moose-Knuckle
09-16-14, 21:29
The MOLLE Fanatic
The guy just got his first AR yesterday, and proceeded to bolt on every POS accessory from the cheaper than dirt catalog, including the obligatory Beta mag.
Then while he and his brotastic friends were high-fiving over how "keeewwwwwwwl deeewwwwd" it is while plotting the next accessorizing binge, they discovered tactical vests, generally the type of blackhawk- style design that's been dead since the 90's. Well, everyone knows you can't have an AR without the proper tactical accessories so they order up.
Generally the guys you see on the range shooting from the bench with the all-molle full vests without a single pouch on it. Or 3 dozen pouches without a single item in one of them. And don't forget the "3 sizes to big for an AR" soft case strapped in 6 pounds of extra Molle with pouches for a deployment's worth of gear and a small inflatable pony to carry it all- or worse, "backpack" straps that they think will actually make it a usable pack. "Yeah, Breh, I can shoot off it like a sniper!" never mind the cloud of dust surrounding their general area from all the dirt that's been killed. If given time and enough money, they eventually morph into either Mall Ninjas or Zombie Hunters.
The Helpful Idiot
You go to the range for refresher trip- All you want is a peaceful hour or two to run some drills by yourself without being interrupted... When suddenly out of the blue this twat shows up. Often they preface their ambushes by "noticing" your firearm, or a piece of gear or so forth. And then.... the advice giving starts.
Now, you know you're a decent shooter, and you know that what you've been working on is correct, but this guy knows that it's NOT.
Generally the guy that knows everything about everything- except it's all wrong. But you can't tell him that because A) he won't believe you, since you're the guy that has to pay to use the range, and B) there is ALWAYS another bullshit "fact" for him to pull out of his ass to prove you wrong. And if there's no fact, then a helpful anecdote about either a family member who stormed the beaches, or his second uncle on his gran'pappy's side who's been a cop since before time began, or his own experience "in combat".
The grand irony of it all is that aside form being an ignorant insulting ass, he now thinks he's your best friend. He won't just leave you the **** alone, and will most likely end up literally following you to your car all the while wasting valuable oxygen with his inane blathering.
Excellent post and spot on! :lol:
The Helpful Idiot is the one who also has to puff out his chest and try to suck his gut in everytime a female shows up at the range. He will stroll on up to her and interject his bull shit thinking some how he will impress the dame and win her affection.
Leaveammoforme
09-16-14, 21:54
I too disagree with every hunter being a 'Fudd'. I enjoy bird hunting. I support Ducks Unlimited and Operation Game Thief through monetary donations. I have seen actual 'Fudds' at Ducks Unlimited banquets. One in particular won a several thousand dollar O/U shotgun. He was sitting at my table and acted irritated since he had to stop eating, go up to podium and claim his shotgun. As a matter fact, another member here & I went out this past Saturday (opening day early Teal). We got all gear soaking wet, muddy, water in the boat and took some birds. We had a great time even if it wasn't at the range. If this makes us 'Fudds' by internet standards, so be it.
I am an NFA enthusiast, Realist, Plinker.
Didn't see this catagory but I think it fits some of us here:
Gun Geeks: The Gun Geek may hunt, compete in shooting competitions, attend training courses from retired pipe hitters, CCW daily, and are known to plink however they are nerds when it comes to firearms. They delve deep into the minutiae of all things firearm related and have a personal library on the subject matter. They could quote every word of The History's Channel Tales of The Gun series and can identify any firearm they see in a TV Show/movie.
And yet another category for me.
:sarcastic:
BoringGuy45
09-16-14, 23:14
I mostly fit into the CCW category, though I wish I had the money to be a realist.
I have a Texas Concealed Handgun License. I carry a Glock 19 with a spare mag everywhere it's legal to carry. I never leave home without it. If I have to leave it in the truck due what's the 30.06 rule forbidding even legal guns, I place it in a Center of Mass lock box cabled around the seat frame.
I've taken a variety of pistol classes and used to compete in IDPA matches. My right knee doesn't allow for running and gunning anymore.
I'm very fortunate in that I don't have to go to a range for shooting practice and put up with the Helpful Idiots of the world as my neighbor set up a range in a field just behind my house for rifle shooting and I use it whenever I want to at his invitation.
I have a pistol range set up in my back yard. Very convenient.
I don't practice nearly enough in the hottest part of the summer, but when cooler weather comes along, I practice quite a bit.
Given the above, I have no idea what category places me in...?
We have a popular breed here I call The XBOX Commando. Distinguishing characteristics:
1) socially awkward
2) slovenly
3) doesn't understand the difference between concealment and cover.
4) will say things like "the G36, Sig 551, or whatever is much more powerful than the M4". When you say "its the same caliber, and the same barrel length, how can it be more powerful... you get a blank "that's the way it is on Rainbow 6" look.
5) one said to me "the problem with suppressors is that they make guns less powerful"... mmmm kay....
6) they also seem to have a border line fetish for the PS90.
A dead give away for those folks is the "whats the best sniper rifle" argument. They will start with something exotic like a Wather WA2000 or something. When you feign interest and ask where they shot one, what the mag as made of, what was the trigger like, did you find the length of pull suitable... they run out of steam pretty quick.
The best part about these guys is that they can usually be dismissed with a "well bless your heart, that's just adorable".
Outlander Systems
09-17-14, 20:47
I think that is why I enjoy firearms for the same reason I've enjoyed martial arts all my life. There are simply so many facets associated with them you can completely change your focus and keep the same interests.
When I got bored with tournament fighting (competition), I explored nearly every style I could find (training junkie). From the start I was fascinated with the history of martial arts, especially martial arts weaponry and I collected many examples including some vintage items (collector). Sometimes I just want to get together with friends and knock the bag around or spar (plinker).
Every time I get older and my tastes change, firearms and martial arts remain interesting.
And one day I will probably come full circle and the .308 military rifles will sit dormant and I will be content to shoot a brick of .22 from my back porch and it will be the greatest thing ever.
This.
Reminds me when a wild hair firmly planted itself in my rectum, and I got way, WAY too into CAS.
Didn't see this catagory but I think it fits some of us here:
Gun Geeks: The Gun Geek may hunt, compete in shooting competitions, attend training courses from retired pipe hitters, CCW daily, and are known to plink however they are nerds when it comes to firearms. They delve deep into the minutiae of all things firearm related and have a personal library on the subject matter. They could quote every word of The History's Channel Tales of The Gun series and can identify any firearm they see in a TV Show/movie.
I was thinking this or "Gun Nerd" would describe me about two pages ago. I tend to buy odd guns just to detail strip them, clean and lube them, shoot them till they reveal their idiosyncrasies and then pass them on to the next owner. I like rescuing abused guns and restoring them to serviceable condition. I used to hunt to the point that I have a lifetime license for my state, but don't hunt anymore. I go across the country (and even as far a Europe) to collect pistol match trophies. I like watching gun shows from time to time, even though I probably know 90% of what they're going to say. I'll do odd things like shoot an IDPA match with a Kel-Tec P-32, or a S&W 629 Mountain Gun with full house loads. I have several NFA items, but tend to use them less after the novelty has worn off (except .22lr cans). I buy "base guns" and work on them or have them worked on until I think they're "perfect", then sell them because I get bored and something else interests me. I've used pretty much every major brand of duty pistol at some point or another. Pretty much the only permanent residents in my safe are gift guns, Glocks and hard use AR's. Everything else is potential trade fodder. I absolutely have to know "how" every gun in my possession works, what's likely to cause problems and how to fix them myself.
The only one that's confounded me to date is a threaded Beretta 21A that works flawlessly w/o the can (so long as the chamber isn't heavily fouled), but goes full-auto with the can attached on every brand and type of .22lr strong enough to cycle the action. That particular aggravation has sat at the back of my safe for over a year now with no success in getting it to work properly. Grrr... It toys with my OCD tendencies to no end. :(
Good descriptions Grant. I fall into more than a few of those.
What about the shooter that always wants to run his guns as hard as possible (shoots the cost of the gun in ammo in less than 3-5 months), and when they get dinged up he has an affinity for 'low vis' krylon. Likes the worn in Krylon look and actually takes pride in worn guns. As long as the internals are good it's GTG. Gun graffiti artist?
Although I do have 1 zombie patch lol
Demerits! :)
4DAIVI PAI2K5
09-18-14, 19:28
Demerits! :)
Simmer down now.
Smuckatelli
09-18-14, 20:08
First; Grant, great topic and assessment. With that said I fall somewhere between the two addition ones listed below:
"The Grunts"- guys that are LE, or basic military background, do a little hunting, have a dozen guns of different variety, hunt a little, might carry, ready to defend home, maybe go to a match once in a while. Basically an all around good bunch of guys that are not all that worked up over having the top of the line STI, unicorn horn bolts, most talked about light, etc. or been to the latest training. Get shit for having a Mini-14 or that Bushmaster they bought in 1990 still.
"The Spartans"- guys than have been shot at and shot back, had a SOF qual military background, either still in, a civy, or LE now- sort of like the above, but have more guns, mix of high end and basic, little more concerned with durability of kit but not all that interested in who the latest training personality is, or upgrading rails to keymod, etc. Again a good bunch of guys. Get shit for running an EoTech or other piece of kit they use at work instead of ordering the first updated T1.
I get to the range about 3 times a month but when I take the kids I don't shoot. I have a 6920 & a 1911 Commander for myself and a few other guns for the kids. I don't have optics on any of the guns, I don't have any military type clothes/vests that I wear while shooting; ripped up blue jeans a t-shirt and some old desert boots. I do stationary transition drills when the kids aren't there. I haven't attended any classes since I retired 12 years ago. I did shoot two CMP High Power Matches but that was only to coach my oldest daughter when she first started out.
I BZO'd the 6920 when I first bought it but that was only because my daughter used it for her first week of training/matches when she was 14. After that I bought her a RRA NM-A4. I'm still hitting center mass out to 300 yards, I'm comfortable with that. Every once in a while I punch out to 600 yards at Quantico.
I would like to have a M-40 A1.....that is my dream gun.
I do CCW but not often because most of my work is on base.
I would like to be able to sleep with the rifle every once in a while but that would freak my wife out. The rifle isn't a security blanket for me but it is a pacifier....:)
I like the idea that I don't have to wait for the armory to open up.
HORSE TRADER- Nothing catches the interest of the Horse Trader quicker than being told "I came across something you might be interested in other day..." They know how much even the most obscure firearm is worth and can work the most complicated of trades in their heads in seconds and drag out the negotiations for days, yet cannot remember anniversaries, birthdays or the names of their children. They have developed a network of gunshops, dealers, collectors and friends with brothers-in-law who are in a financial bind that would confound the cleverest of intelligence agents. It is truly amazing to see what oddity they'll acquire next. My father was an incurable Horse Trader. I'd call him every week and greet him with "Ok Dad, whatcha got and what'd you trade for it?" without ever being disappointed.
INVETERATE TINKERER As mentioned earlier, the Inveterate Tinkerer always has a project. Something is always apart to have something polished, bedded, cleaned, checkered, refinished, lightened, built, or have some other surgery performed on it to make it better. Given a perfectly fine firearm, it won't be long before the Inveterate Tinkerer will be heard to say to himself "I wonder if I can't make this right here better". This is a category I fall into. When I was a kid, my dad smiled when I refinished the stock on my rifle, nearly had a heart attack when I punched out all the pins of the fire control group of his favorite 10/22 and disavowed all knowledge of my activities when I modified the geometry of a Mauser two stage trigger to a single stage, complete with an adjustment screw to take out the creep.
My father was an Inveterate Tinkerer in his own right. He'd buy a rifle in a new caliber and spends hours at the reloading bench working up a new load until he'd get it shooting as tight as possible. I could predict when a rifle was about to be traded off- it would be between 2 weeks t a month after he'd gotten the groups as small as they were going to go- even sooner if the rifle couldn't produce one inch groups at 100 yards within a couple of trips to the range. Quite a few of the early gunwriters were Inveterate Tinkerers, such as P.O. Ackley and Elmer Keith.
OLD CURMUDGEON The Old Curmudgeon is the grey haired fellow that's been around the mountain and across the prairie and about as friendly as a tangle of rusty barbed wire. They know where to find game and how to catch fish. They can put together a comfortable camp in the worse weather with a pocket knife and a bit of rope- and they can shoot and the older and more battered the rifle, pistol or shotgun in their hands, the better they could shot. I grew up with a few Old Curmudgeons, my grandfather and his hunting companions being the most memorable. Seems like there are a lot fewer Old Curmudgeons than there used to be and the world is a poorer place for it.
Myself, I fall into more than one category. Besides being an Inveterate Tinkerer, I am a plinker, hunter and collector although I shoot everything I've got. I'm a CCW holder and I've always got some kind of firearm around. A favorite pastime is dry-firing at the TV. Luckily, I have a very understanding wife. Can't claim to be a gamer, I've rarely shot in competition and I've yet to take a formal class. I take my responsibilities as a firearms owner seriously but I also like shooting to be fun. I guess I've got my foibles, but I'll leave you to guess just what they might be
HORSE TRADER- Nothing catches the interest of the Horse Trader quicker than being told "I came across something you might be interested in other day..." They know how much even the most obscure firearm is worth and can work the most complicated of trades in their heads in seconds and drag out the negotiations for days, yet cannot remember anniversaries, birthdays or the names of their children. They have developed a network of gunshops, dealers, collectors and friends with brothers-in-law who are in a financial bind that would confound the cleverest of intelligence agents. It is truly amazing to see what oddity they'll acquire next. My father was an incurable Horse Trader. I'd call him every week and greet him with "Ok Dad, whatcha got and what'd you trade for it?" without ever being disappointed.
INVETERATE TINKERER As mentioned earlier, the Inveterate Tinkerer always has a project. Something is always apart to have something polished, bedded, cleaned, checkered, refinished, lightened, built, or have some other surgery performed on it to make it better. Given a perfectly fine firearm, it won't be long before the Inveterate Tinkerer will be heard to say to himself "I wonder if I can't make this right here better". This is a category I fall into. When I was a kid, my dad smiled when I refinished the stock on my rifle, nearly had a heart attack when I punched out all the pins of the fire control group of his favorite 10/22 and disavowed all knowledge of my activities when I modified the geometry of a Mauser two stage trigger to a single stage, complete with an adjustment screw to take out the creep.
My father was an Inveterate Tinkerer in his own right. He'd buy a rifle in a new caliber and spends hours at the reloading bench working up a new load until he'd get it shooting as tight as possible. I could predict when a rifle was about to be traded off- it would be between 2 weeks t a month after he'd gotten the groups as small as they were going to go- even sooner if the rifle couldn't produce one inch groups at 100 yards within a couple of trips to the range. Quite a few of the early gunwriters were Inveterate Tinkerers, such as P.O. Ackley and Elmer Keith.
OLD CURMUDGEON The Old Curmudgeon is the grey haired fellow that's been around the mountain and across the prairie and about as friendly as a tangle of rusty barbed wire. They know where to find game and how to catch fish. They can put together a comfortable camp in the worse weather with a pocket knife and a bit of rope- and they can shoot and the older and more battered the rifle, pistol or shotgun in their hands, the better they could shot. I grew up with a few Old Curmudgeons, my grandfather and his hunting companions being the most memorable. Seems like there are a lot fewer Old Curmudgeons than there used to be and the world is a poorer place for it.
Myself, I fall into more than one category. Besides being an Inveterate Tinkerer, I am a plinker, hunter and collector although I shoot everything I've got. I'm a CCW holder and I've always got some kind of firearm around. A favorite pastime is dry-firing at the TV. Luckily, I have a very understanding wife. Can't claim to be a gamer, I've rarely shot in competition and I've yet to take a formal class. I take my responsibilities as a firearms owner seriously but I also like shooting to be fun. I guess I've got my foibles, but I'll leave you to guess just what they might be
I've known so many of "all of the above" I've lost count. My father used to keep court with about a dozen of those guys.
Sadly a lot of "shooters" are now extinct.
The duffle bag machine gun guy: Brought one or two or up to a dozen enemy machine gun variants home from WWII. Back in the "long ago" times they kept the guns in the basement and the bolts in the attic and they were 100% legal as they did not have a functional machine gun. Every so often they'd drive out to the farm and drop a bolt in a German "burp gun" and tear up a pile of rusty paint buckets. Worst thing that could happen if you got caught with a "live" and unregistered machine gun was you'd have to surrender it or pay the tax on it. The idea that you could do 10 years or pay thousands of dollars in fines was an absurd notion.
The Trick Shot: While there are still exhibition shooters, safety concerns and the related liability and insurance considerations means you'll probably never see anyone throw anything in the air and actually shoot it with a rifle ever again. Toepperwein and his pile of of almost 50,000 wooden two inch blocks (of which he missed four) might as well be an Allosaurus. You'll never see either ever again.
The Stock Rifle Marksman: These are the guys who took a standard Remington, Winchester, Mauser or Mannlicher rifle, maybe put a scope on it - maybe not, and then proceeded to out shoot everyone around them and their custom shop accurized and tuned rifles. And the SRM rifles were usually standard hunting grade variants, maybe in some cases a varmint model. The difference between them and everyone else with their custom tuned 1/2 lb. triggers is these guys could actually shoot.
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