View Full Version : Priced dropped on D&H, buy them or pay more for nhmtg?
Prices on D&H have dropped to $7 and $8, while nhmtg is still in the $11 - $12 price range.
I know nhmtg are supposed to one of the best mags on the market, but is there a single good reason why I should not be stockpiling D&H?
Are nhmtg that much better to justify a $5 per mag price spread?
Hold off and wait until nhmtg drops to under $10 a mag, or buy now, or go ahead and buy D&H?
Get both. I THINK that BCM's mags are D&H. We've been running several of those, and they are very nice. Workmanship and function has been very good.
NHMTG = Colt
I wouldn't by D&H magazines for $1 each. NHMTG's will never go below $10. The quality difference you get in the $5 spread is worth every penny.
While most everything I have GI is nhmtg, I have ran a few of the BCM mags and they functioned great. When a friend of mine gets through wringing out his 10 mag buy we will go in on the hundred mag special.
D&H did put out some dog shit at one point... not quite the train wreck that Cprod was, but they did have some issues. I don't know their CAGE code... otherwise I could tell you what the BCM mag bodies are.
This. Mark I don't remember seeing any markings on the bodies cagecodesor anything on mine, but they were old ones from years back.
So go ahead and spend the extra money and get nhmtg?
Yall dont think prices are going to come down very much more on them?
D&H did put out some dog shit at one point... not quite the train wreck that Cprod was, but they did have some issues. I don't know their CAGE code... otherwise I could tell you what the BCM mag bodies are.
04TQ4
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?88888-Magazine-maker-cage-codes
Till the verdict is in from my friend who I trust, yes nhmtg.
Doc Safari
09-18-14, 09:31
NHMTG are certainly considered better than D&H. If you're buying D&H mags just for everyday use: go for it.
I've been using about a dozen D&H mags since 2010 and I've only had one malfunction with one magazine in all that time.
My main beef about D&H mags is that the finish is some kind of shiny black coating that is obviously not military standard.
Ok, thanks guys, will get the nhmtg.
I have been buying D&H, pmag and NHMTG. I do not see a reason to buy 2 different types of aluminum magazines.
The price drop on the D&H makes them very tempting.
04TQ4
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?88888-Magazine-maker-cage-codes
Yep.. I'm 99% sure that's what's on the BCM mags. I've been inside and out of them and they're pretty good.
I can't argue with an NHMTG recommendation at all though.
I have a few of the D&H mags. No troubles so far. NHTMG mags are almost double the price, but they are really high quality. I'd use either.
Get both and some Pmags. One can never have too many mags, and a variety of quality mags isn't a bad idea since you will sometimes run across a rifle that is picky with certain mags. Bought 20+ of the D&H mags when they popped up on sale for $7 a piece a few weeks back. Am about to drag a few to the range for t&e with various ammo and rifles. For $7 I couldn't say no, even if it is only for trade fodder down the road, but initial inspection would appear promising. Can vouch for the issues with some C-product mags though, just went through that earlier this year.
Can vouch for the issues with some C-product mags though, just went through that earlier this year.
Over the past decade I picked up various magazines at gun shows. Turned out a lot of them are c products and are junk. I ended up putting all of my c products magazines into a box, wrote "retired" on the box and put it on a top shelf in a closet.
Now that prices are back down I want to increase my buying rate. I was buying ammo one month, then some magazines, then ammo, then magazines, then ammo,,,, kinda rotating it out.
Those D&H hitting $7 - $8 are too good to pass up.
I know nhmtg are supposed to better, but I know I will kick myself during the next panic buying spree if I do not get some D&H.
Charlie Don't Surf
09-18-14, 13:19
D&H did put out some dog shit at one point... not quite the train wreck that Cprod was, but they did have some issues. I don't know their CAGE code... otherwise I could tell you what the BCM mag bodies are.
Do you remember the time frame when they put out the dog shit?
just bought 20 of the D&H at $7, along with 10 gen3 pmags. couldn't pass it up.
MSparks909
09-18-14, 13:26
Where are you finding NHMTGs for $11-12?
Doc Safari
09-18-14, 13:30
Where are you finding NHMTGs for $11-12?
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines
MSparks909
09-18-14, 13:34
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines
Thanks!
Over the past decade I picked up various magazines at gun shows. Turned out a lot of them are c products and are junk. I ended up putting all of my c products magazines into a box, wrote "retired" on the box and put it on a top shelf in a closet.
Now that prices are back down I want to increase my buying rate. I was buying ammo one month, then some magazines, then ammo, then magazines, then ammo,,,, kinda rotating it out.
Those D&H hitting $7 - $8 are too good to pass up.
I know nhmtg are supposed to better, but I know I will kick myself during the next panic buying spree if I do not get some D&H.
Most of the C-product mags I've got are about 8-10 years old which I was buying at about $6 a piece at the time, got a few dozen.
Anyway, most ran decent, the issue came up for me earlier this year when I moved and was resorting/stacking mags and noticed that just about every one of the C-product mags were showing not insubstantial rust on the mag springs. Pulled them apart and all of the C-product mags had rusty springs, but the magpul pmags, D&H, Colt/nhmtg mags, even my ****ing couple bushmaster mags which were stored in the same or worse conditions did not show any rust or tarnish on the springs. The C-product mags have since been relegated to training/trade fodder pile.
Back on the D&H mags, just got back from the range a little while ago, ran a couple hundred rounds through a few of them, from 55gr .223, 55gr 5.56, and 75gr Steel Match. Everything fed fine. Only bitch would be that they are a little harder to seat than my pmags, though this could honestly be due more to the fact I was choking up on the mag during insertion on my BCM and not seating it properly. Grabbing the mag closer to the bottom seemed to solve this issue so likely a training issue since I am use to the finger groves on the pmags.
JBecker 72
09-18-14, 14:30
Huh, didn't realize DH had a bad rep. I have 10 BCM battleship grey mags with Magpul followers that are brand new. I have them stashed away for a rainy day and they are the only USGI mags I own.
Where are you finding NHMTGs for $11-12?
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines
That is who I was going to buy from.
44mag has had nhmtg at that price for several months. I was expecting the price to drop some more before to much longer.
Doc Safari
09-18-14, 14:47
That is who I was going to buy from.
44mag has had nhmtg at that price for several months. I was expecting the price to drop some more before to much longer.
I've watched them off and on for several years. MAYBE on an occasion or two the price dropped to $10.99 each, but I don't recall their price ever going below that, and $11.99 is the price I remember paying for most of my NHMTG mags over the years. So don't feel bad about not waiting; you may be wasting your time.
I purchased 10 d&h mags at the beginning of the year for $8 each. I have not had any issues or problems with them. I bought them and was planning on using them as cheap beater mags for hunting that I could abuse and throw them away if needed. Quiality seems okay and they function fine. Only complaint is the metal mag rattles in the lower ( maybe a loose fit) while walking around hog hunting so I switched back to pmags to eliminate the clunking and clatter. Now I just use them for range use.
PA PATRIOT
09-18-14, 16:33
I think for training use the D&H magazines are a great buy if you catch a sale with free shipping, they seem to run especially well with steel cased ammo as the slick coating keeps them from binding inside the mag body. Also many folks here trash the C-Products line and that may have been justified on many occasions but the recent batch (Last six to twelve months) of Stainless steel 30rd magazines seem to be strong performers and tough as nails. Back when PSA had a clearance on the stainless versions for $5.00 each with free shipping I picked fifty up hoping they would be in spec dimensionally and so far they have not disappointed with some rough use.
Also I would not hesitate in grabbing some of the "Enhanced" Tan follower USGI magazines which are selling in the E&E sections of AR related boards as the prices are very good and they work well.
In my experience, D&H mags have been good quality since at least 2008.
Joe Mamma
Ready.Fire.Aim
09-18-14, 19:30
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines
Thank you sir. I just ordered 25.
Do you remember the time frame when they put out the dog shit?
just bought 20 of the D&H at $7, along with 10 gen3 pmags. couldn't pass it up.
If your mags are anywhere near current production, you're fine. It was back maybe 7-10 years now???
Huh, didn't realize DH had a bad rep. I have 10 BCM battleship grey mags with Magpul followers that are brand new. I have them stashed away for a rainy day and they are the only USGI mags I own.
There was a sketchy run several years back. The BCM grays are the reason I've given D&H a second look.
Most of the C-product mags I've got are about 8-10 years old which I was buying at about $6 a piece at the time, got a few dozen.
Anyway, most ran decent, the issue came up for me earlier this year when I moved and was resorting/stacking mags and noticed that just about every one of the C-product mags were showing not insubstantial rust on the mag springs. Pulled them apart and all of the C-product mags had rusty springs, but the magpul pmags, D&H, Colt/nhmtg mags, even my ****ing couple bushmaster mags which were stored in the same or worse conditions did not show any rust or tarnish on the springs. The C-product mags have since been relegated to training/trade fodder pile.
Back on the D&H mags, just got back from the range a little while ago, ran a couple hundred rounds through a few of them, from 55gr .223, 55gr 5.56, and 75gr Steel Match. Everything fed fine. Only bitch would be that they are a little harder to seat than my pmags, though this could honestly be due more to the fact I was choking up on the mag during insertion on my BCM and not seating it properly. Grabbing the mag closer to the bottom seemed to solve this issue so likely a training issue since I am use to the finger groves on the pmags.
The C-product mags with the rusty springs are the chrome silicon variety. They used bare chrome silicon at that time and they would exhibit a very fine surface rust. It is not a problem as it would not weaken the springs. If the brown color bothers you just wipe the springs down with a good corrosion inhibitor which will remove the rust and prevent its return. Later CS springs were coated to prevent the surface rust.
Bushmaster mags were made by various mil contract companies like La Belle and Okay Ind. with Bushmaster base plates so check for cage code on the bodies to ID the maker.
The C-product mags with the rusty springs are the chrome silicon variety. They used bare chrome silicon at that time and they would exhibit a very fine surface rust. It is not a problem as it would not weaken the springs. If the brown color bothers you just wipe the springs down with a good corrosion inhibitor which will remove the rust and prevent its return. Later CS springs were coated to prevent the surface rust.
Bushmaster mags were made by various mil contract companies like La Belle and Okay Ind. with Bushmaster base plates so check for cage code on the bodies to ID the maker.
It wasn't just surface rust on the springs, at least not on all of them, most did wipe down and appeared fine, but still bothered me when of all the mags in my inventory, all stored the same condition, these mags were the only ones that showed any signs of rust. Even when there are a number of mags for other platforms that are steel that showed no issues.
Not a clue which/if there is a cage code on the Bushy mags, then again never had the urge to look for it. Will have to check.
In my experience, D&H mags have been good quality since at least 2008.
Joe Mamma
Ditto, especially since PSA sells them for $7 with Magpul followers.
ETA: DSG has Lancer for $12 and Gen 2 Pmags for $8.
I've watched them off and on for several years. MAYBE on an occasion or two the price dropped to $10.99 each, but I don't recall their price ever going below that, and $11.99 is the price I remember paying for most of my NHMTG mags over the years. So don't feel bad about not waiting; you may be wasting your time.
I'm partial to NHMTG mags (and obviously, Colt USGI). Found this deal ($10.95) a few weeks ago and ordered a handful to put away. Shipping was fast and cheap ($5), if thats a factor. Lowest price for NHMTG that I have found:
http://www.buffertech.com/M16-30-round-magazines-new-P148.aspx
Followers are dark green rather than the mint green pictured. I believe they are MP. I've not ordered from buffer tech.com before but my one experience was great.
Beat Trash
09-19-14, 09:06
I much prefer the D&H teflon coated mags, and the inherent lubricity, have run through several hundred w/o issue.
The smoothness with new type anti-tilt followers (magpul, USGI tan, KAC, etc) is noticeable.
Ive used several of their grey Teflon coated mags with no issues. If I wanted to stock up on aluminum mags right now, I'd grab these with the MagPul followers. But I've switched over the PMAG's for my uses, and I can currently find gen2 PMAG's on sale for 7.99 each. So if I want to stock up, it's on PMAG's.
I read somewhere that D&H are used by the IDF. Can't imagine they'd be using garbage mags.
Berserkr556
09-19-14, 10:41
Man there's a lot of BS in this thread. There isn't a damn thing wrong with D&H mags and no reason to trash them or say, "they're alright for training mags." I have a good supply of D&H mags, some I bought from BCM and some from other vendors and I've never had any problem with those mags. I've fired hundreds of rounds through each mag and I have 10 that I know have cycled a thousand rounds or more through each mag without a malfunction.
There's no good reason to spend $12. or more on an AL. mag when I can buy one for $7. that works and I can buy Pmags at $8. all day long. Range mags my arse. The problem D&H mags are from a decade ago or more. Buy D&H mags with confidence and don't listen to some mag snob.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?81074-Move-back-to-GI-magazines-a-journey/page48 After reading all 48 pages, it seemed like NHMTG was favored by most.
http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_20_ar15_magazine/nhmtg How have the 20 round NHMTG mags been?
My D&H mags have ran great so far. Though, I had one double feed on a well used one last range session, so I will keep using that one to see if it occurs more.
plouffedaddy
09-19-14, 12:24
D&H mags with Magpul followers are as good as any aluminum mag out there IMO.
I've had problems with some 20 round NHMTGs. I've also for some newer D&H magazines that work fine. About the only mags I've used that sucked were 9 round Colt magazines, C-Products, TAPCO and other cheap plastic magazines. Also had issues with Gen 2 PMags and 20-round PMags with limiter installed for hunting.
Overall, most new mags are pretty nice. I've bought several $7 D&H mags and will probably buy more.
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I have purchased about a dozen of the d&h mags from psa since mag prices dropped and they have been fairly reliable. However the Nhmtg mags I have (purchased from 44mag) have been flawless and feel more robust. My two cents.
Devildawg2531
09-21-14, 10:40
I've bought about 40 D&H mags with magpul folowers fro BCM over the past 3 years. Bunch of rounds through about 10 of the D&H mags and have had no issues whatsoever.
I haven't purchased any mags for a couple years. However, I have a lot of them and I've found the D&H mags with the Magpul followers to work flawlessly. I will tell you that the D&H with green followers I bought early on were not as good, but not BAD.
NHMTG - They feel sturdier, but function the same as D&H. I held off buying NHMTG because I wanted mags that came with Magpul followers. But the last bunch I bought had Magpul followers and they are beautiful. I don't know if NHMTG uses a better quality of aluminum or what, but they feel sturdier which makes me feel like the feed lips might last longer. But this is just speculation as I have had not problems with D&H or NHMTG
I went back and tried to retrofit Magpul followers into my older D&H mags with green followers with mixed luck. The reason is that the green follower mags were not finished as cleanly internally as the D&H mags with Magpul followers. So, the Magpul followers would hang up in a few of the old D&H green follower mags.
I've also had experience with CProducts, and ASC and of course Magpul. Magpul is great. CProducts and ASC are not good. Yes, the CProducts springs kept in doors and unused began to rust. And I'm not talking mild. I'm talking comes off on your hands and stains plastic rust. ASC is not to hot either, some oif the ones I bought were stamped incorrectly around the mag release notch and for some reason would over insert.
Stay with the D&H and NHMTG if your going to buy aluminum GI mags.
I bought a couple 10-packs of the battleship gray D&H mags from BCM almost 2 years ago and the 3 I put into rotation have been nothing but perfect. I wouldn't hesitate to add more to the stash at the right price. I've grown to like the gray color as well. Now that I think about it, they're the only non-polymer magazine in my training rotation.
brushy bill
09-28-14, 00:22
NHMTG = Colt
.
I'm not sure how to validate this since the last dozen or so NHMTGs I picked up from 44mag.com had no cage code.
Unless something changed recently, NHMTG, Okay, and Colt were all the same mags.
I prefer NHMTG over D&H anyday...
I've grown to like the gray color as well.
The gray is addicting. ;) I've been adding M plates in OD green to mine.
I won't buy D&H mags again. I got 7 of them for $7 each from PSA back in 2012 -- they were the FDE colored ones with Magpul followers. I left 6 of them in mag pouches on a belt rig in the trunk of my car for several hours on a 90 degree day. When I went to pull a mag out, all 3 that were in the pouch came out together. The paint on the mags had melted and become soft, and stuck the mags together. The same thing had happened to the other 3 mags that were in the other pouch. I contacted D&H and they refused to do anything about it. I contacted PSA, and they wouldn't warranty another manufacturer's product, and wouldn't accept a return since the products were damaged :angry:, but they did send me a free FDE Pmag for my troubles. I sold the D&H mags at a loss and bought more Pmags.
These mags could have just been part of a defective batch, or the defect may be limited only to ones with certain types or colors of paint; but I am not going to waste any more time or money on them now that I know they won't stand behind their product when they are defective. Here are some pics of the mags. You can see the spots where the paint melted and bubbled, where the mags stuck together, and even where the nylon weave pattern from the mag pouches imprinted in the paint.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/IMG_0369.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/IMG_0370.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk201/henschman/guns/IMG_0373.jpg
For aluminum mags I prefer and have had the best luck with the NHMTG's with the Magpul followers
When I went to pull a mag out, all 3 that were in the pouch came out together.
Wow. There are different variants of the gray. None that I've seen have such a sticky, painted look like your pics. Some even look like they're almost bare aluminum with no finish.
I run a ton of Colt (NHMTG) mags and D&H mags. Yes the Colt mags are my primary mags, but I really have seen no difference in the D&H mags that I have been running for a few years now. Quite honestly the D&H mags actually see much more use as I train with them more often than the Colt mags. I would have absolutely no reservations with the functionality of D&H mags in a critical use situation. Like any other piece of gear, each component that is critical should be vetted on an individual basis and properly monitored on a routine maintenance and inspection schedule.
The paint on the mags had melted and become soft, and stuck the mags together. The same thing had happened to the other 3 mags that were in the other pouch. I contacted D&H and they refused to do anything about it. I have no affiliation and too bad to hear about your experience. From what I have seen, I own dozens of the D&H black, grey and tan mags and know others who also run them and I have not seen or personally encountered this problem and I too live in a hot weather region.
I have no affiliation and too bad to hear about your experience. From what I have seen, I own dozens of the D&H black, grey and tan mags and know others who also run them and I have not seen or personally encountered this problem and I too live in a hot weather region.
Like I said, I am aware that the problem I had may be limited to just a small batch of mags. The main thing that bothered me, and the main reason I won't buy their stuff anymore, is because they won't stand behind their products when something DOES go wrong. I would think twice before y'all buy any more from them either... especially when there are plenty of good mfg's out there that make a great product and stand behind it 100%, like Magpul.
Magpul didn't stand begins a batch of early gen 2 mags. I purchased 20 that would not for any if my lowers except my Colt. I had to sand down one and realized what a job it would be for the remaining 19, so I talked to Magpul and they told me they were designed to fit Colt magazine wells without rattling and I should take it up with the manufacturer of my lowers. I had five lowers that worked fine with every other mag. So in the end magpul told me to get lost more or less. So I sanded them down until they fit. I was later told that magpul changed their dimensions shortly after.
Moral of the story, everybody makes mistakes and CS sometimes fails.
Since your magazines were PSA branded, I would call that a PSA problem. It's common for several companies to make things for somebody else and not warranty them separately. I would hit up FN if I bought a bad BCM barrel.
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NHMTG = Colt = Okay = 33710.
I think these are the best GI type you can get. That and Pmag are all I have. But I've used DH a little, and would prefer them if I couldn't get Okay or Pmag.
Moral of the story, everybody makes mistakes and CS sometimes fails.
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This is the truth. Everyone makes mistakes, no one is perfect and having worked in CS sometimes you are going to tell a customer something they don't want to hear because it is policy. Doesn't always make it right, but I would offer that one should look at the trends of a companies CS rather than just a single lone example. Had a rather large issue with PSA a number of years back and swore them off due to very shitty CS/shipping. Did order a number of the D&H mags recently though, couldn't help myself and wasn't concerned if I got them in a few weeks or more. Ordered on Sunday, got them that Wednesday. I do not believe SKD could have gotten them to my door any faster.
Hell H&K who was once considered the worst of the worst for CS has begun receiving praise for CS efforts.
In regards to the Pmags though, I don't know if there would have been anything Magpul could have done, if the mags were in spec for what they were supposed to be they were in spec, even if they did not work with other lowers. Though I do thank you for the story. Is a fine example of a lower is not always just another lower.
That is who I was going to buy from.
44mag has had nhmtg at that price for several months. I was expecting the price to drop some more before to much longer.
I find it funny that this forum overwhelmingly says these are great mags...and when I receive my order after reading this thread the mags are in DPMS plastic bags...:fie:
I find it funny that this forum overwhelmingly says these are great mags...and when I receive my order after reading this thread the mags are in DPMS plastic bags...:fie:
As long as they're NHMTG or 33710 coded, disregard the bag.
I find it funny that this forum overwhelmingly says these are great mags...and when I receive my order after reading this thread the mags are in DPMS plastic bags...:fie:
And there's the big secret. I've found the DPMS branded mags often cost less, I assume since they say DPMS. Just to clarify, if you find DPMS MA-02L mags, buy them.
And there's the big secret. I've found the DPMS branded mags often cost less, I assume since they say DPMS. Just to clarify, if you find DPMS MA-02L mags, buy them.
Excellent tip!
10-packs in stock here for $80 + shipping: http://gunmagwarehouse.com/products/10-pack-of-dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-w-magpul-follower-magazine-ma-02l
Excellent tip!
10-packs in stock here for $80 + shipping: http://gunmagwarehouse.com/products/10-pack-of-dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-w-magpul-follower-magazine-ma-02l
Wow. Ten D&H thirties for eighty bucks plus a little bit of shipping.
I remember during one of the recent Panics, Cheaper than Dirt was offering mags for $79.
I saw C-Prod aluminum thirties change hands in a store for $40 a pop.
Now's the time to stock up if you haven't already.
Wow. Ten D&H thirties for eighty bucks plus a little bit of shipping.
I remember during one of the recent Panics, Cheaper than Dirt was offering mags for $79.
I saw C-Prod aluminum thirties change hands in a store for $40 a pop.
Now's the time to stock up if you haven't already.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the claim is that those are NHMGT not D&H.
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Unless I'm misunderstanding, the claim is that those are NHMGT not D&H.
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Yep, NHMTG mags for $8 + shipping. What's not to love.
Great information in here. I had no idea there were DPMS branded NHMTG mags.
Edit: nvm the botach deal is backorder not in stock.
That $80/10 pack + shipping looks like a deal I may have to jump on.
FWIW they are also $8 each individually, you don't have to buy 10 at a time necessarily
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/collections/223/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
Moral of the story, everybody makes mistakes and CS sometimes fails.
I'll agree that everybody makes mistakes, but I'm not as willing as you to give companies who have poor customer service a pass. When mags are as cheap and plentiful as they are now, and many other quality ones can be had within a buck or two of D&H's price, I see no reason to go with a company who is OK with dumping a defective product on their customers and then refusing to make it right. There is no excuse for that kind of BS.
FYI they weren't PSA brand mags... they were sold as "D&H mags with PSA marked floorplates."
3ACR_Scout
09-29-14, 19:08
I'm not sure how to validate this since the last dozen or so NHMTGs I picked up from 44mag.com had no cage code.
I've been wondering about that lately. I know they come from the same factory, but just to play devil's advocate, I don't know for sure that the NHMTG-marked mags didn't fail some sort of minor mil spec check gauge or something that results in them being sold to the civilian market, while mags that pass this hypothetical gauge get the Colt stamp and cage code. Doesn't really matter - they are sturdy and function fine, just like my Colt and Okay-marked mags.
On another useless but curious subject, one NHMTG mag I picked up at a show recently (stamped 03-13) has the current (Gen III?) Magpul follower, but it's tan, similar but not identical to the "improved" follower in the Brownells GI mags. I know Magpul only makes the current follower in green and yellow, some I'm curious where this tan follower came from.
I had no idea there were DPMS branded NHMTG mags.
Me neither - that's really interesting. I don't doubt it, I'm just curious - I'm guessing they have a DPMS-marked floor plate? Do they have the NHMTG cage code stamped on them?
Dave
I'll agree that everybody makes mistakes, but I'm not as willing as you to give companies who have poor customer service a pass. When mags are as cheap and plentiful as they are now, and many other quality ones can be had within a buck or two of D&H's price, I see no reason to go with a company who is OK with dumping a defective product on their customers and then refusing to make it right. There is no excuse for that kind of BS.
FYI they weren't PSA brand mags... they were sold as "D&H mags with PSA marked floorplates."
I would call that PSA branded. Should be up to PSA to make it right.
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Great information in here. I had no idea there were DPMS branded NHMTG mags.
Edit: nvm the botach deal is backorder not in stock.
That $80/10 pack + shipping looks like a deal I may have to jump on.
FWIW they are also $8 each individually, you don't have to buy 10 at a time necessarily
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/collections/223/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
There is no brand on the mags that say DPMS. Each single magazine bag had the panther and the letters DPMS marked on the bag alone. The markings on the mag are the same as the mag that came with a Knight's rifle I just purchased...
There is no brand on the mags that say DPMS. Each single magazine bag had the panther and the letters DPMS marked on the bag alone. The markings on the mag are the same as the mag that came with a Knight's rifle I just purchased...
What about the floor plate? What is on it?
There is no brand on the mags that say DPMS. Each single magazine bag had the panther and the letters DPMS marked on the bag alone. The markings on the mag are the same as the mag that came with a Knight's rifle I just purchased...
What are the markings?
Joe Mamma
What about the floor plate? What is on it?
I don't even run floor plates on mine. I hold the spring and ammo in "cup and saucer" style.
If those are really NHMTG mags, I think I will have to buy some.
If those are really NHMTG mags, I think I will have to buy those.
Same.
I'm still looking for ironclad confirmation. Not sure that is out there.
I just called them. Sales: 800-409-9439. They said the mags have the NHMTG stamp on the base plate.
Same.
I'm still looking for ironclad confirmation. Not sure that is out there.
I bought some DPMS mags from BOTACH recently, they are stamped NHMTG.
I bought some NHMTG mags from 44mag recently, came in DPMS bags.
Well damn, I'm buying that shit
I just called them. Sales: 800-409-9439. They said the mags have the NHMTG stamp on the base plate.
Thanks for checking on that and posting. In hindsight, I should have called but assumed someone already knew.
ThuRemoved.
Per forum rules, absolutely no group buys without approval.
- SeriousStudent
Im going to to order a 10 pack and if they are gtg ( I have never ordered from this vendor ) and if so, I will order another 10 pack to two.
Well I came here to post that they are stamped .223 cal/5.56 mm, NHMTG, S/42 Hartford CT.
Removed - SeriousStudent.
That is what they have on mine as well...
brushy bill
09-30-14, 18:56
I bought some NHMTG mags from 44mag recently, came in DPMS bags.
Ditto. Same.
Just ordered 20. A little at a time.
SeriousStudent
09-30-14, 20:26
Mod note:
Group buys without specific approval of Shivan are not allowed. They frequently get messed up, and then we have to play King Solomon and dice up infants.
Please read and follow the rules. Thank you.
Have never used any of these. But since they are about the price of gen 2 pmags I am going to give them a shot
I just spoke with Gun Mag Warehouse customer service. They are apparently dealing with a huge number of orders, so they're going to need extra time to ship... I ordered my 10 mags 9/29 and customer service could not say exactly when they'd ship out.
Great information in here. I had no idea there were DPMS branded NHMTG mags.
Edit: nvm the botach deal is backorder not in stock.
That $80/10 pack + shipping looks like a deal I may have to jump on.
FWIW they are also $8 each individually, you don't have to buy 10 at a time necessarily
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/collections/223/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
That's a great deal on NHMTG mags with Magpul followers. I just ordered some. You're right--you don't have to order in lots of 10 mags at a time.
Thanks for the heads up guys.
Joe Mamma
Mine should show up today. I ordered 14 because 15 made the shipping move up dramatically.
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The DPMS-bagged mags from GunMagWarehouse are legit... Just got my 10 in today. Green Magpul followers and NHMTG baseplates. Hell of a deal.
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/nhmtg1.jpg
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/nhmtg2.jpg
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/nhmtg3.jpg
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/nhmtg4.jpg
The DPMS-bagged mags from GunMagWarehouse are legit... Just got my 10 in today. Green Magpul followers and NHMTG baseplates. Hell of a deal.
Is there a cage code on the mag body? Is there a date on the body?
Is there a cage code on the mag body? Is there a date on the body?
There is a date but I don't see a cage code...
ETA: As I understand it all newer production mags with the Magpul followers do not get stamped with the CAGE code (unless they're being produced under GOV contract).
These are the only markings I can find on the mag body:
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/nhmtg5.jpg
Whoa!
NHMTG thirties for eight bucks? That's a steal for the best USGI mags out there. Plus a magpul follower to boot. If I didn't already have a pile of them (and Pmags) I'd fork over quick.
I remember right after the '08 election--I saw C-products aftermarket stuff change hands for forty US dollars at a local gun store. Panic buying, it was.
But for $8 y'all should buy 'em cheap and stack 'em deep.
Whoa!
NHMTG thirties for eight bucks? That's a steal for the best USGI mags out there. Plus a magpul follower to boot. If I didn't already have a pile of them (and Pmags) I'd fork over quick.
I remember right after the '08 election--I saw C-products aftermarket stuff change hands for forty US dollars at a local gun store. Panic buying, it was.
But for $8 y'all should buy 'em cheap and stack 'em deep.
I haven't pulled the trigger on any of these yet. Keep spending the money I (barely) have for .22lr as it pops up. I tell myself I have "enough" AR mags. It would take another panic (or, God forbid, a ban) to determine if that is true though.
Got 10 today and they are just as described above. I can't test them until 2 weekends from now but expect them to be just as reliable as other NHMTG's.
I'm using Brownells GI mags, have 10 of them have have been thru both a Costa Ludus CET1 and a HSP D3 Carbine. No issues.
Mine are setting in the post office. Didn't get home in time to pick them up. Will be in class all day tomorrow so I'll get my grubby paws on them on Wednesday. I'm sure they will be as described.
On Brownell's mags:
I've have about a dozen or so 20 round and 30 round Brownell's mags I picked up like new from a guy getting out of ARs. Sometime around late November 2012. To date three or four of them have been problematic. So I recommend thoroughly testing them before counting on them. Maybe mine were of a bad batch or were abused by the previous owner but they all appeared to be unused. Hopefully it's an isolated occurrence. Looks like the poster above me has good luck with them. I would look at other sources dollar for dollar with the current state of the market.
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Thanks Caporider for the pictures. These will be a good addition to what I have on hand. Hope prices continue to fall so I can continue my purchases.
I've got 20 NHMTG mags and L-plates coming in. They're the only mags that drop free from all four of my ARs. The BCM mags are great, but a couple stick in one of the magwells. Ditto for the Pmags Gen 2 and 3.
kaltesherz
10-06-14, 22:07
The GunMagWarehouse deal on NHMTG mags is as good as it gets- I've used all kinds of aluminum mags and NHMTG / Okay mags are by far the best and the only mod I have to make is adding MagPul followers (I also add Ranger plates but that's just personal preference). These are great mags at an amazing price. I have a metric shitload of older issued mags and I still couldn't pass this up to get half a dozen. Shipping was reasonable and fast- my only complaint was that I was in the field all weekend and came home to find the box was left on my doorstep with GunMagWarehouse in big letters on the return addy. Not a big deal, just hope my neighbors didn't notice...
Again, great mags. I'm tempted to pick up a few more before this deal is over.
I've got 20 NHMTG mags and L-plates coming in.
I've been L plating a bunch of mags lately. Good to see another supporter of the movement! ;)
I've been L plating a bunch of mags lately. Good to see another supporter of the movement! ;)
They're a good idea, IMO. They add almost no length, and protect good mags during constant practice or shooting.
One question though, how do you get the right number of rotations ensuring the mags land on their bases when you do the Costa Flip?
One question though, how do you get the right number of rotations ensuring the mags land on their bases when you do the Costa Flip?
It's all about the right amount of Ludus!!
It's all about the right amount of Ludus!!
That's not funny, man. My uncle had terminal Ludus.
gunmagwarehouse
10-08-14, 13:26
Hello Everyone,
Thank you all for the interest in the NHMTG Magazines.
We sincerely appreciate it and thank you to the customer that posted the pics to clear up the 'DPMS' question.
Please know that the sale pricing on 10 Packs, 30 Packs and case orders the price will remain at $7.49 to $7.99. However, as soon as we sell out of the 62 individual mags in stock at the sale price of $7.99, the price for individual mags will be $9.99.
Once again, thank you from the Gun Mag Warehouse Team.
I just ordered ten earlier today, I think I was the one who took your stock from 82 to 72 ...
tango-papa
10-08-14, 15:57
There is a date but I don't see a cage code...
ETA: As I understand it all newer production mags with the Magpul followers do not get stamped with the CAGE code (unless they're being produced under GOV contract).
These are the only markings I can find on the mag body:
http://personal.visualitymedia.com/personal/misc/nhmtg5.jpg
If possible, please advise the source of this information.
Thanks,
tp
Not trying to be a smartass, but why would you care if the magazine has a CAGE on it or not?
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Not trying to be a smartass, but why would you care if the magazine has a CAGE on it or not?
Maybe he's worried about it being stolen gov property. I can think of about a zillion things I care about more in life than misc markings on a mag body.
Maybe he's worried about it being stolen gov property. I can think of about a zillion things I care about more in life than misc markings on a mag body.
Gotcha. I honestly couldn't think of any reasons why somebody would care less it was for cool guy points or something. I didn't think that was indicative of stolen property. I believe the mags at the PXes are CAGE marked. My buddy said he (and plenty others) would buy a full set of mags for combat and keep their issue mags to turn back in since they all had to be accounted for and were typically worn. I've got a few buddies that buy mags at the PX still and have a ton of them so they are floating around legally.
My DD RIS II rails have a code on them. So do my KAC front sights. Hell, I think my Surefire SOCOM has one on it.
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tango-papa
10-08-14, 18:36
He may have seen CAGE codes on all the NHMTG mags he has handled in the past, but these mags lack them, prompting him to question if they are genuine.
Correct.
I was not aware that NHMTG magazines were distributed without a CAGE code.
I have several that I purchased many years ago from various sources and they all have the code.
I was simply curious about the lack of the CAGE marking/stamping and the source of information.
tp
tango-papa
10-08-14, 18:40
Maybe he's worried about it being stolen gov property. I can think of about a zillion things I care about more in life than misc markings on a mag body.
Worrying about mag markings keeps me up at night...
Worrying about mag markings keeps me up at night...
You must have a very stress free life my friend if that is what keeps you up at night. Lol.
The possibly stolen argument was the possible reason I thought of. Though of all stolen gear, mags would be about the last on my list of concerns.
Worrying about mag markings keeps me up at night...
You can damn near tell a real NHMTG from another mag body on finish and quality alone. NHMTG usually has that grayish finish that scratches pretty easily and the workmanship is usually much nicer than any other USGI type mag.
The possibly stolen argument was the possible reason I thought of.
Wouldn't stolen USGI mags HAVE a CAGE code...?
Wouldn't stolen USGI mags HAVE a CAGE code...?
Yes and No. Cage code stamps are absolutely inconsistent.
I now have 20 NHMTG mags that shipped in the DPMS branded bags. None of them have CAGE codes on them, FWIW.
Wouldn't stolen USGI mags HAVE a CAGE code...?
At the same time wouldn't legally purchased ones from a PX?
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At the same time wouldn't legally purchased ones from a PX?
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For sure. My comment was intended to point out that the presence or absence of a CAGE code would not be a good way to tell if a mag was stolen USGI property.
3ACR_Scout
11-26-14, 11:47
However, as soon as we sell out of the 62 individual mags in stock at the sale price of $7.99, the price for individual mags will be $9.99.
In case anyone's interested, the price did go up on these individual NHMTG mags, but now it's back down to $7.99, apparently as part of their Black Friday sale:
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/collections/223/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
Dave
Looks like PSA has D&H mags for $5.99 now
Picked up 20 of the D&H, and 20 of the NHMTG. Best of both worlds I'd say.
In case anyone's interested, the price did go up on these individual NHMTG mags, but now it's back down to $7.99, apparently as part of their Black Friday sale:
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/collections/223/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
Dave
I would but they must ship to my billing address. So I can't stock up till I leave this commie hell hole.
10 more of the NHMTG on the way. I thought I had them sent to a shipping address when I ordered some a month ago. Not this time.
10 more of the NHMTG on the way. I thought I had them sent to a shipping address when I ordered some a month ago. Not this time.
Ya I just realized I am a tard.
SeriousStudent
11-27-14, 19:12
In case anyone's interested, the price did go up on these individual NHMTG mags, but now it's back down to $7.99, apparently as part of their Black Friday sale:
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/collections/223/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
Dave
Thanks for the heads up. I snagged another dozen mags.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-27-14, 20:54
Worth noting (if it hasn't already been mentioned) is that the DPMS NHMTG mags have chrome silicon springs, which I refuse to use based on Magpul's feedback on corrosion resistance tests they performed. If you're like me, they may be worth only using for training, or not at all depending on your preferences. This may be how they get the price so competitive on them since every other magazine brand I've seen has their CS mags a bit cheaper than their SS mags (Brownells comes to mind).
On that note, does anyone know if the springs in the following mags are SS or CS?
-BCM D&H mags
-PSA D&H mags
-44Mag NHMTG mags (just NHMTG branded, not anything else)
The latter especially worry me since many of us have noted that NHMTG mags are not CAGE-coded anymore, perhaps because they have CS springs? I bought a lot of the latter, so I'm really hoping they're SS and not CS.
Worth noting (if it hasn't already been mentioned) is that the DPMS NHMTG mags have chrome silicon springs, which I refuse to use based on Magpul's feedback on corrosion resistance tests they performed. If you're like me, they may be worth only using for training, or not at all depending on your preferences. This may be how they get the price so competitive on them since every other magazine brand I've seen has their CS mags a bit cheaper than their SS mags (Brownells comes to mind).
On that note, does anyone know if the springs in the following mags are SS or CS?
-BCM D&H mags
-PSA D&H mags
-44Mag NHMTG mags (just NHMTG branded, not anything else)
The latter especially worry me since many of us have noted that NHMTG mags are not CAGE-coded anymore, perhaps because they have CS springs? I bought a lot of the latter, so I'm really hoping they're SS and not CS.
Damn are they really that much of a problem? I just bought a 10 pack thinking they were standard NHMTG mags.
Damn are they really that much of a problem? I just bought a 10 pack thinking they were standard NHMTG mags.
Only if you are in very humid or wet places. Had a run in a shit load of moisture earlier this year and the CS springs in several mags rusted like mofos while my pmags didn't show any signs or give a shit. So somethings to consider. That said, the mags that had the CS springs I had been using for years up until then and only then, when they were covered with moisture did they begin to show issue. So it is an issue, but I am not sure if it would be a deal breaker for me.
Only if you are in very humid or wet places. Had a run in a shit load of moisture earlier this year and the CS springs in several mags rusted like mofos while my pmags didn't show any signs or give a shit. So somethings to consider. That said, the mags that had the CS springs I had been using for years up until then and only then, when they were covered with moisture did they begin to show issue. So it is an issue, but I am not sure if it would be a deal breaker for me.
Just checked a D&H mag I bought from Cope's, it showed very slight signs of what appeared to be surface rust. All were exposed to were one humid WI summer. The ones I use for training are still going great.
The Pmag I checked looked fine.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-27-14, 21:57
Just checked a D&H mag I bought from Cope's, it showed very slight signs of what appeared to be surface rust. All were exposed to were one humid WI summer. The ones I use for training are still going great.
The Pmag I checked looked fine.
That's been my experience with CS mag springs as well. I don't mind using CS buffer springs since they're always slathered in lube from the BCG, but the mag springs are a different story. All the ones I've owned have shown surface rust by the end of year 1.
Man, this has caused me to reevaluate my entire mag stock now. Bah.
That's been my experience with CS mag springs as well. I don't mind using CS buffer springs since they're always slathered in lube from the BCG, but the mag springs are a different story. All the ones I've owned have shown surface rust by the end of year 1.
Man, this has caused me to reevaluate my entire mag stock now. Bah.
Same, however, I am wondering how much of a problem it will really cause.
If they are just going to get worse, I may just switch to Gen 3 Pmags, on the same site for $90.
With my AR mags, I actually prefer chrome silicon springs over stainless steel springs.
Joe Mamma
With my AR mags, I actually prefer chrome silicon springs over stainless steel springs.
Joe Mamma
Why is that? Have you ever ran into a issue with rust with CS?
3ACR_Scout
11-28-14, 02:59
Worth noting (if it hasn't already been mentioned) is that the DPMS NHMTG mags have chrome silicon springs, which I refuse to use based on Magpul's feedback on corrosion resistance tests they performed.
Well, that's a bummer. I also figured they were the same as the regular production Okay/Colt/NHMTG mags. That's always been part of the benefit of buying real USGI, that you know they're made to the same standard. I think the three I bought from 44mag.com had SS springs, but I don't think I checked them very closely.
Dave
DreadPirateMoyer
11-28-14, 11:01
Just verified with both 44Mag.com and PSA that their NHMTG and D&H mags (respectively) both come with SS springs. I'm also waiting for word from BCM, but I'd assume the same for them.
This is good news. Looks like the DPMS-NHMTG mags are likely the only outlier here.
Why is that? Have you ever ran into a issue with rust with CS?
I never had any problems with chrome silicon springs in AR mags. I consider them stronger or more specifically, less likely to weaken and take a set (after a lot of use or repeatedly keeping mags loaded for long periods of time) compared to stainless steel mag springs.
I generally prefer CS because I think after a lot of use, I am more likely to have problems due to weak mag springs than due to corrosion (which would probably only be light surface corrosion which I would consider cosmetic).
At least some chrome silicon springs in AR mags have been coated with a corrosion resistant material. So I don't automatically assume CS springs are going to rust easily, or even more easily than stainless springs. Also, stainless steel can still rust.
Don't get me wrong, I'll take AR mags with stainless steel springs (and I have plenty of them). But when I have had a choice with AR mags, I think I have always chosen CS. I think the quality in mag springs (in ARs and other guns) depends on a lot of different things: material, # of coils, size of coils, wire diameter, length, heat treatment, coatings, etc. So I don't feel strongly about one being better than the other (chrome silicon versus stainless steel).
Joe Mamma
DreadPirateMoyer
11-28-14, 11:06
Yeah, most CS springs do come with a coating, but it abrades off very easily through contact with the magazine body, follower, and just general use. Even the best CS coatings don't do much in my experience. I'd guess a lot would depend on your climate, but the summers where I live are swamp-like and we get lots of precipitation throughout the year. CS is a no-go for me.
...-44Mag NHMTG mags (just NHMTG branded, not anything else)...
Last time I bought NHMTG mags from 44mag, June14, they were in DPMS bags.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-28-14, 11:55
Last time I bought NHMTG mags from 44mag, June14, they were in DPMS bags.
Interesting. The last ones I bought were loose-packed. This was in 2013, though.
Wolfhound86
11-28-14, 16:57
Google 17-7PH this is the material D&H springs are made out of, as stated on PSA's site. Do all nhtmg mags have cs springs, or just the DPMS?
DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 01:43
Google 17-7PH this is the material D&H springs are made out of, as stated on PSA's site. Do all nhtmg mags have cs springs, or just the DPMS?
Looks like just the DPMS ones as listed at gunmagwarehouse so far. I've reached out to NHMTG for clarification, though.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 09:23
Looks like just the DPMS ones as listed at gunmagwarehouse so far. I've reached out to NHMTG for clarification, though.
BCM confirmed, like PSA and 44Mag, that their mags use SS springs. Seems like gunmagwarehouse is an outlier, has a typo, or something else. Still waiting on NHMTG.
BCM confirmed, like PSA and 44Mag, that their mags use SS springs. Seems like gunmagwarehouse is an outlier, has a typo, or something else. Still waiting on NHMTG.
Have you contacted gunmagwarehouse?
It seems strange that they would get NHMTG mags with CS springs. I guess since it is a DPMS mag, they are not standard NHMTG ones.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 12:00
I haven't, but that's a good idea. I'll shoot them an email too. I just took their description at face value ("We added the most popular aftermarket accessorie to our ultra-reliable chrome silicon spring magazines..."), but it's worth verifying as well.
3ACR_Scout
11-29-14, 12:10
I just took their description at face value ("We added the most popular aftermarket accessorie to our ultra-reliable chrome silicon spring magazines..."), but it's worth verifying as well.
Uh, oh, so your post about them having CS springs was based on the product description and not from opening one up that you bought from Gunmagwarehouse? That's probably not a great idea. Their description also says "All components are mil-spec material and manufactured uner strict ISO quality standards." Does mil-spec require SS springs? I don't know myself.
Dave
DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 12:15
...it's a perfectly fine idea. It's their product description. People deserve to have that pointed out to them when they think they're buying pure NHMTG mags, because those normally come with SS springs and GMW is saying these don't. It says they have CS springs, which isn't mil-spec (mil-spec is 17-7 stainless steel).
And as someone who's spent time putting magazine springs through SEM (search my posts, one of my tests is posted here), opening up the mag will tell you almost nothing. I've got 5 different SS springs that look completely different from one another, and a few CS springs that look closer to some SS springs than other SS springs. You can save the lecture, thanks.
3ACR_Scout
11-29-14, 12:43
...it's a perfectly fine idea. It's their product description.
It would have been a better idea to ask one of the numerous people who posted that they had received the DPMS / NHMTG mags if they could crack one open to see if they can tell what type of springs they have. Even better, compare them to an NHMTG mag from another source, such as 44mag. As you said, sometimes it's hard to tell, but it would be a data point for verifying a product description that contradicts itself (all components are mil-spec, but it has CS springs).
Dave
DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 12:48
No, it wouldn't be a data point. It would tell us nothing. I have 2 sets of NHMTG magazines where the springs look different. I have a Brownells SS spring that looks exactly like a cheapo CS spring I have leftover from a few years ago before I converted away from them. Like I said, short of SEM (or years-long testing for cyclic fatigue/rust), it's almost impossible to tell if they're actually CS or SS. What you're criticizing me for would do nothing.
The distributor says the mags they are selling are CS. That's good enough to warn people that the mags they are buying are CS.
The distributor also says they are mil spec. So which is it? They say it both ways. Why err on one side or another?
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DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 12:58
The distributor also says they are mil spec. So which is it? They say it both ways. Why err on one side or another?
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Because everyone in the AR market says everything is mil-spec. It rarely is. That claim is pretty much write-offable, especially when these are DPMS-branded magazines -- a company that describes their entire product line as mil-spec, including bolts that aren't made of C158, barrels with 1/9 twist, and a whole slew of other garbage parts that are "mil-spec."
Not to mention that when making a purchase, erring on the side of caution is good.
I didn't say err on the side of caution. I said err not at all. Find out for a fact one way or the other before crying like a child. The information CAN be found. Between three vendors to the point where the description was posted there obviously may or may not be errors.
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DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 13:05
No one's crying like a child here. We're having a discussion about magazines. The product description says these magazines have CS springs. I warned people that these magazines have CS springs. Two members got mad for some reason.
I didn't say err on the side of caution. I said err not at all. Find out for a fact one way or the other before crying like a child. The information CAN be found. Between three vendors to the point where the description was posted there obviously may or may not be errors.
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No, you didn't.
The distributor also says they are mil spec. So which is it? They say it both ways. Why err on one side or another?
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I answered your question.
Reading comprehension? I said "why err on one side or the other?" If you can't figure out that means find the facts then there is no helping you.
And yes, you're acting childish. You don't know of their description is right. Your claim is it's impossible to tell, even if they are in front of you. So again, rather than speculate, find the answers.
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DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 13:32
Calm down. There's no reason to be mad about this or call names. You asked a question and I answered it. No one is stupid here. PM me if you'd like to continue this grand inquisition over warning people exactly what the product description says. This thread isn't about us. It's about magazines.
Also, if you read the whole thread since my original post (did you?), you'd have seen I already contacted NHMTG, which is sure to get more accurate information on this than GMW. Either way, I'm happy. I warned people that what they thought they were getting isn't necessarily what they were getting. I hope I saved some people some money, and also hope NHMTG can squelch or confirm this.
Yes and you don't have info from them yet.
Here's a data point. I ordered some of these when they were on sale before. Mine were packaged with a sticker that said DPMS.
The springs are magnetic, which SS springs should be. From my experience, and perhaps I'm wrong, CS springs are not magnetic. I only had one CS spring around to try and it wasn't magnetic.
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DreadPirateMoyer
11-29-14, 13:46
CS springs are sometimes magnetic. Lots of SS materials aren't, but some can be (I'm pretty sure 17-7 is magnetic). That is a good data point, I didn't even think of that. Could help.
Anyway, PM me for non-spring related issues. Really couldn't care less if you publicly take issue with how I warned people at this point. I'm happy with it. I warned people and then sought information, just like I would do when warning people about barrels that claim to be mil-spec but also list 1/9 twists and 4140, non-chrome-lined steel. If NHMTG confirms the springs are indeed CS, I hopefully saved people money. If it says otherwise, then people can still buy them. Doing it in reverse could've cost lots of people in this community money that they didn't want to spend. I like how I approached it and would do it that way again. If you don't like that, PM me. This is my last post on the topic of how/why I warned people, because this thread has been derailed enough.
EDIT: just magnet tested all my springs, including CS mag springs, SS mag springs from NHMTG, Brownells, Colt, and D&H, as well as CS Sprinco buffer springs. All were magnetic. Doesn't tell us much.
Voodoochild
11-29-14, 14:13
Tyler and pirate you both need to calm down and go outside and get some fresh air. Enough with the back and forth.
Wolfhound86
11-29-14, 15:37
Pirate, thanks for pointing out they were CS. I'm glad I read your post before making my purchase, because I wouldn't have read the description. Looking forward to what you hear back from GMW.com. Keep us posted please.
Do we really need to mark territory and piss on each other over mags? Maybe people should get mags that make them happy and move on?
DreadPirateMoyer
12-01-14, 09:41
Pirate, thanks for pointing out they were CS. I'm glad I read your post before making my purchase, because I wouldn't have read the description. Looking forward to what you hear back from GMW.com. Keep us posted please.
No problem!
Just heard back from GMW, and they simply cited the product description and said they are CS springs, which is pretty much the response I expected.
Let's see what NHMTG says.
3ACR_Scout
12-01-14, 10:16
I received a slightly different response from GMW:
They are chrome-silicon straight from the manufacturer. We personally do not add any special modifications.
That's interesting, since that would imply (to me, at least) that DPMS is ordering them from NHMTG with CS springs. That would also seem to indicate that the product description is taken from DPMS, and not created by GMW, but it doesn't show up in any other DPMS mag listings. It will be interesting to see what NHMTG says.
Dave
DreadPirateMoyer
12-01-14, 10:21
I received a slightly different response from GMW:
That's interesting, since that would imply (to me, at least) that DPMS is ordering them from NHMTG with CS springs. That would also seem to indicate that the product description is taken from DPMS, and not created by GMW, but it doesn't show up in any other DPMS mag listings. It will be interesting to see what NHMTG says.
Dave
Agreed, and this is my suspicion as well.
The DPMS-branded NHMTG mags are ~$4 cheaper than standard NHMTG mags. There's got to be a reason for that, just like the rest of their "mil-spec parts." I suspect it's the CS spring, which is cheaper in almost all brands than mags with SS springs.
DreadPirateMoyer
12-02-14, 12:48
I just spoke with Steve with NHMTG about DPMS-NHMTG magazines (email reply), and he said they're stainless steel. Good news!
Just to verify, I gave him a more specific link to the GMW website and also asked him if he could post here to clarify the situation.
I just spoke with Steve with NHMTG about DPMS-NHMTG magazines (email reply), and he said they're stainless steel. Good news!
Just to verify, I gave him a more specific link to the GMW website and also asked him if he could post here to clarify the situation.
Awesome! Thanks for gathering all this info.
I just spoke with Steve with NHMTG about DPMS-NHMTG magazines (email reply), and he said they're stainless steel. Good news!
Just to verify, I gave him a more specific link to the GMW website and also asked him if he could post here to clarify the situation.
Glad to have some solid info.
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3ACR_Scout
12-02-14, 23:48
I just spoke with Steve with NHMTG about DPMS-NHMTG magazines (email reply), and he said they're stainless steel. Good news!
Thanks a lot for running that to ground - that's definitely good news. That tells me that DPMS is probably just really marking the price up on their own website! I may have to order another 10-pack from GMW...
Dave
So if you can buy these DPMS(NHMTG) mags with Magpul followers or OKAY with Orange Anti-Tilt followers for the same price which do you get?
I'm guessing it is 6 of one half dozen of the other kind of deal?
.........................
It just says "These have Orange Anti-Tilt followers."
Here is the description:
New OKAY Industries 30rd .223/5.56 curved Aluminum Lightweight magazine for AR15/M16 type Rifles. These have Orange Anti-Tilt followers. Bolstering the already high reliability ratings of the M16/M4 systems, the Improved Magazine effectively reduces the risk of magazine-related stoppages by more than 50 percent compared to the older magazine variants. Identified by a tan-colored follower, over 500,000 of the improved magazines have been fielded to units in Iraq, Afghanistan and in the U.S. They are a leader in military products and their magazines show this. Top of the line manufacturing! All magazines are new but show some scuffs from shipping and moving around. These have the brown anti tilt follower. The same company that produces Colt USGI Magazines.
At the end it says these have the brown follower. I've sent an email asking which it is but from the pictures they are orange or I guess it could be tan?
http://www.prestoimages.net/store20/rd1926/1926_pd2217198_2.jpg
I just talked on the phone and they have the tan follower and the date on them is 2012.
That tan follower still symbolizes governmental retardation to me.
That tan follower still symbolizes governmental retardation to me.
We can always count on markm for an honest point of view! Agreed, I have no idea who thought the tan follower up but they may have had something to do with New Coke.
Here is some OKAY mags for $8. I have never ordered from this site, but am considering getting 5.
http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/tds/dt85304/pd2217198/OKAY_INDUSTRIES_USGI_CONTRACT_AR-15_M16_30_ROUND_MAGAZINE
I am not sure where Double3 got the pictures and description but it is the same from this link.
What is wrong with the Tan followers?
What is wrong with the Tan followers?
The idiots in power funded the development of a follower that already existed.... aka the magpul anti tilt follower. I also believe there were functionality complaints with the tan follower mags early on.
The idiots in power funded the development of a follower that already existed.... aka the magpul anti tilt follower. I also believe there were functionality complaints with the tan follower mags early on.
That sounds typical. But, do they work as well as the Magpul ones now?
That sounds typical. But, do they work as well as the Magpul ones now?
I've not heard any recent complaints.... I don't know. The other little thing that bothered folks was that round number 28 is now on the left side of the mag instead of the right side. I guess that's what kept them from completely outright stealing the magpul follower's design.
Doc Safari
12-04-14, 10:24
I've not heard any recent complaints.... I don't know. The other little thing that bothered folks was that round number 28 is now on the left side of the mag instead of the right side. I guess that's what kept them from completely outright stealing the magpul follower's design.
It makes sense this would bother people used to it being the other way around.
As for reliability, I've yet to have a malfunction with a tan follower mag. I don't shoot full auto nor do I get my mags in the sand or mud, but they've been 100% for everyday use.
Yeah... there may have been a few early mags/followers that were wonky. I'm sure the tan ones are in military use now... so I guess they're chuggin along fine.
Here is some OKAY mags for $8. I have never ordered from this site, but am considering getting 5.
http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/tds/dt85304/pd2217198/OKAY_INDUSTRIES_USGI_CONTRACT_AR-15_M16_30_ROUND_MAGAZINE
I am not sure where Double3 got the pictures and description but it is the same from this link.
What is wrong with the Tan followers?
That is the same place.
Guess I could have just posted the link.
.........................
The fact that even-numbered rounds are on the opposite side to rounds loaded in mags with green/Magpul followers is a deal-breaker for me, and a good way to get yourself killed.
Could you please explain?
Here is some OKAY mags for $8. I have never ordered from this site, but am considering getting 5.
http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/tds/dt85304/pd2217198/OKAY_INDUSTRIES_USGI_CONTRACT_AR-15_M16_30_ROUND_MAGAZINE
I am not sure where Double3 got the pictures and description but it is the same from this link.
What is wrong with the Tan followers?
I have ordered ammo from that site many times over a period of years. Order with confidence.
.........................
I load all my 30 round mags to 28 or 30 rounds, and I use mags that have Magpul/green followers, which means a full mag always has the top round on the right side. After charging the AR (i.e., chambering a round), I remove the mag with my non-firing hand and, using my index finger, feel for the top round to ensure that one round was stripped from the mag and chambered. If stripped and chambered correctly, the top round should now be on the left side. I then re-insert the mag.
Using mags with the tan follower disrupts this routine, and Mr. Murphy is always around. This technique works day and night, assuming your followers are all the same, and you load your mags to 28 or 30. I never press-check my AR, and do not recommend it.
Just do a press/chamber check after loading. You can do it by feel or visually. Then it doesn't matter which side your rounds are on. I'd rather directly observe a round in the chamber.
I load all my 30 round mags to 28 or 30 rounds, and I use mags that have Magpul/green followers, which means a full mag always has the top round on the right side. After charging the AR (i.e., chambering a round), I remove the mag with my non-firing hand and, using my index finger, feel for the top round to ensure that one round was stripped from the mag and chambered. If stripped and chambered correctly, the top round should now be on the left side. I then re-insert the mag.
Using mags with the tan follower disrupts this routine, and Mr. Murphy is always around. This technique works day and night, assuming your followers are all the same, and you load your mags to 28 or 30. I never press-check my AR, and do not recommend it.
Sounds reasonable to me.
You can also be pretty darn sure you didn't over-load the mag (usually this means 31 stuffed into a PMAG) if the top round is on the right when you keep all followers setup like that. No way to you are putting 32 in.
.........................
Partially retracting the bolt isn't going to hurt anything. Assuming your chamber is loaded has always seemed like a surprising leap of faith to me.
Partially retracting the bolt isn't going to hurt anything. Assuming your chamber is loaded has always seemed like a surprising leap of faith to me.
What 7.62NATO outlined is not "assuming" the chamber is loaded.
wildcard600
12-04-14, 16:36
What 7.62NATO outlined is not "assuming" the chamber is loaded.
in a way it is. what if the round somehow fed out of the magazine and was ejected up out the ejection port ? checking the mag would reveal a missing round that is in fact, not in the chamber.
.........................
I guess the experts who teach to check the mag are wrong lol.
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wildcard600
12-04-14, 16:53
Assuming it is visible, watching the ejection port is a given. On a different note, how does that press check work for you while wearing gloves in the dark?
i dont know, all my guns that are used for SD/HD are loaded well in advance and kept loaded. i dont load them in the dark wearing gloves.
I guess the experts who teach to check the mag are wrong lol.
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Good instructors are the first to admit that their techniques and methods aren't infallible.
Assuming it is visible, watching the ejection port is a given. On a different note, how does that press check work for you while wearing gloves in the dark?
You can feel a casing on the bolt with gloves on.
Good instructors are the first to admit that their techniques and methods aren't infallible.
Are you?
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Good instructors are the first to admit that their techniques and methods aren't infallible.
Is your method infallible?
.........................
wildcard600
12-04-14, 20:11
Out of curiosity, in what condition do you keep your SD/HD guns?
Loaded, as i said in the message you quoted.
.........................
wildcard600
12-04-14, 20:30
Loaded, as in chambered, or loaded, as mag in, chamber empty?
round in chamber.
.........................
wildcard600
12-04-14, 21:24
Please describe the process you use to charge the weapon and ensure it is chambered.
Insert magazine. Retract charging handle. Release charging handle. Retract charging handle slighty to ensure round has chambered via visual inspection (can confirm tactilely if circumstances dictate) Ensure bolt has seated fully and is in battery.
I really dont know what you are pushing at here. if you trust your method, have at it. i dont go running around with empty weapons so failure to charge the initial round is not high on my list of concerns. At the very least i can be reasonably certain that 1 round will fire.
if i come upon a situation where i need to reload i will simply have to put my faith in the weapon to work properly upon recharging the chamber. if you drop the mag and visually check everytime you reload that must be an interesting sight to see in the middle of a gun battle.
YMMV
.........................
wildcard600
12-04-14, 21:54
When charging the weapon in an administrative environment, which is the environment in which we're discussing charging the weapon and verifying that it is chambered and in battery, the criss-cross method is preferable over the press-check method. Can the press-check be used successfully? Yes, but it increases the chance that the weapon does not return into battery.
Finally, to suggest using the criss-cross method while "in a gun battle," if even only in jest, takes much away from the poor argument you're making. People with verifiable BTDT experience will echo what I've said. Take it or leave it.
I don't recall where the conversation was prefaced as "in an administrative environment", nor do I recall there being any actual "argument" towards the validity of the method I employ in my circumstances. I obviously don't have to consider the circumstances you apparently find yourself in. The only "argument" I was making is that just because a round is stripped from the magazine, does not necessarily indicate that the weapon is charged.
Have a nice night.
Meanwhile press checks have their own problems.
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wildcard600
12-04-14, 22:15
Meanwhile press checks have their own problems.
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i agree. until BCM releases a transparent upper barrel though, we have to choose a method.
3ACR_Scout
12-04-14, 23:24
Here is some OKAY mags for $8. I have never ordered from this site, but am considering getting 5.
http://www.tds-us.com/catalog.php/tds/dt85304/pd2217198/OKAY_INDUSTRIES_USGI_CONTRACT_AR-15_M16_30_ROUND_MAGAZINE
I am not sure where Double3 got the pictures and description but it is the same from this link.
What is wrong with the Tan followers?
I think the same dealer is selling a 10-pack of those on GB (the photo of the bagged magazines is the same, at least). I haven't personally seen any issues with the tan followers - I have one from Brownells and have seen a bunch in the Army - but I try to avoid them simply for the sake of uniformity in my GI mags. The issue of the top round being on the opposite side is a secondary concern for me, but the spring is also different to accomodate the new follower, so it's not interchangeable with the MagPul follower or the older green GI follower. I just prefer to have common parts - i.e. springs and followers - in my GI magazines for maintenance purposes. I guess I might be forced to accept the brown follower at some point, if all new GI magazines are being made with it, but there are still a ton of surplus magazines out there, and these DPMS / NHMTG mags still use the old spring design with the bonus of the MagPul follower.
Dave
You mag fags should grab a few of the ETS group see through mags. They too have the opposite side follower, but they're such a different mag anyway, it doesn't bother me. I have no relation to the company. I just think they're a must have in your mag diversity program.
.........................
Got a link to a good price on these?
Unfortunately there aren't good prices on them. The were 25% off for black friday, but they're 17.99 each regular price for the non-coupling version. I wish I'd have grabbed a few more on sale, but I'm bracing for the holidays as it is.
http://www.etsgroup.us/ETS-Group-AR15-Magazines-s/1814.htm
You guys on this forum can use discount code m4carbine.net to get 20% off. We want you all to give our mags a try...
You guys on this forum can use discount code m4carbine.net to get 20% off. We want you all to give our mags a try...
Before anyone asks it is just m4carbine for the discount code..
Leave the .net off or it doesn't work.
Before anyone asks it is just m4carbine for the discount code..
Leave the .net off or it doesn't work.
I'm grabbing a few more.
Before anyone asks it is just m4carbine for the discount code..
Leave the .net off or it doesn't work.
Thanks for correcting it for me. You are correct, it's m4carbine for the discount code.
3ACR_Scout
12-06-14, 01:25
The were 25% off for black friday, but they're 17.99 each regular price for the non-coupling version.
I originally picked up three with the M4C discount and then ordered three more on Black Friday. I'm out of town and haven't been able to shoot with them yet, but the design definitely seems ergonomic and robust. I'm going to continue to maintain a mix of quality polymer mags (MagPul, ETS, TD) and reliable GI mags (Colt, Okay, NHMTG), because I try to keep in mind that they are, afterall, disposable items, so I don't want to get too attached to more expensive polymer mags when quality GI mags are available for half the price.
Dave
DreadPirateMoyer
12-21-14, 21:39
Thought I'd follow up in this thread with something funny I saw today while browsing Brownells.
GMW NHMTG-DPMS magazines: http://gunmagwarehouse.com/products/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l
Brownells CS magazines: http://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ar-15-m16-30rd-223-5-56-mag-w-magpul-follower-ranger-plate-prod71750.aspx
See anything familiar?
We added two of the most popular aftermarket accessories to our ultra-reliable chrome silicon spring magazines, so you get a customized magazine ready to run hard right out of the bag. The curved 30-round model comes with the Magpul Self-Leveling Follower.
Not sure why, but it looks like GMW copied/slightly edited the Brownells magazine item description for their NHMTG mags; it's also where the source of confusion stemmed from earlier in this thread. Weird.
3ACR_Scout
04-09-15, 03:25
Dragging up this slightly old topic, I noticed today that GMW is no longer listing the 10-pack of the DPMS / NHMTG mags, only the single magazines, which have gone up in price considerably (now $14.99):
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l.html
I'm glad this thread got the word out before they disappeared.
Dave
3.00 cheaper at 44mag.com- http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines
Dragging up this slightly old topic, I noticed today that GMW is no longer listing the 10-pack of the DPMS / NHMTG mags, only the single magazines, which have gone up in price considerably (now $14.99):
http://gunmagwarehouse.com/dpms-ar-15-223-5-56-30-round-gray-mil-spec-magazine-ma-02l.html
I'm glad this thread got the word out before they disappeared.
Dave
3.00 cheaper at 44mag.com- http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines
Cheaper still:
http://www.buffertech.com/M16-30-round-magazines-new-P148.aspx
Scotter260
04-09-15, 08:16
Not sure if appropriate but a pretty popular company in S. Carolina has D&Hs with Magpul followers on sale for $6.99 a piece.
Not sure if appropriate but a pretty popular company in S. Carolina has D&Hs with Magpul followers on sale for $6.99 a piece.
I think that's debatable around here :)
Not sure if appropriate but a pretty popular company in S. Carolina has D&Hs with Magpul followers on sale for $6.99 a piece.
D&H mags don't compare well with NHMTG/Colt/OKAY mags. D&H mags have suffered from QA/QC issues. Why gamble with possibly defective mags when known high quality mags abound?
Scotter260
04-09-15, 09:14
I think that's debatable around here :)
Fair enough - how about "a company in S. Carolina"?
D&H mags don't compare well with NHMTG/Colt/OKAY mags. D&H mags have suffered from QA/QC issues. Why gamble with possibly defective mags when known high quality mags abound?
Okay, thought it was pertinent due to the title of the thread.
Fair enough - how about "a company in S. Carolina"?
I'll take it.
The quality has been discussed at length here already.
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The quality has been discussed at length here already.
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It bears repeating for those new to the thread or that do not want to sift through 20+ pages.
And there's plenty there suggesting the D&H mags are descent quality, enough so that BCM contracts with them.
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And there's plenty there suggesting the D&H mags are descent quality, enough so that BCM contracts with them.
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You know best what your needs are.
I sifted through 22 pages and ordered the NHMTG mags.
NWcityguy2
04-09-15, 22:03
I use both and like both, but D&H mags are available on some smoking deals right now. PSA has sold out, but Wideners still has them available for as low as $6.50 a piece.
https://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100001116&dir=625|1056|1058
FTW
32673
http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/122561/sp62328/colt-30-round-5.56-ar-15-magazine
FTW
32673
http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/122561/sp62328/colt-30-round-5.56-ar-15-magazine
NHMTG makes colt's mags. Might as well buy the non branded ones for 5-10 bucks less.
Looks like the Colt mags have Magpul followers now.
Good stuff..
hotrodder636
04-10-15, 20:42
DH and NHMTG magazines compare to e Brownells GI magazines?
I think NHMTG and Brownells mags are nicer than D&H.
Chiming in to say that for standard GI magazines; Brownells is pretty much all I buy. Straight box 20s and 30 rounders that have been real reliable.
I've for about 10 Brownell's magazines. I'm not sure who makes them for Brownell's. One of them is junk. Other seem to be good thus far. Mine are 20 round magazines used for my precision AR.
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All the D&H mags I've purchased have been picked up in the last 2 years and they have worked just as well as any of my NHMTG or Brownells mags with Magpul followers.
If I wanted to warn people about any aluminum mags (besides the known POS brands) it would be about Center Industries.
I purchased 4 (brand new in bag) and ended up crushing the bodies of 3 of them because they didn't fit the magwell on a Colt. I kept the springs and followers but I won't buy Centers again.
Stock up before Hilla the Hun starts leading in polls and the next panic begins :cool:
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