View Full Version : Need help picking sights
I am a new shooter so I haven't developed any specific preferences for sights. This will be for a Glock 17 for a HD setup. I'm in Canada so no CCW considerations. I want to get night sights. From what I've read, U-notch rear is good and dot on dot configuration is better than 3 dot for tritium. I have also read a lot of people like brightly colored front sights for fast FS acquisition such as the Trijicon HDs and Ameriglos. I was thinking of getting a painted FS w/ tritium and a 1-dot rear tritium with a U-notch. The only thing is that Trijicon HDs are 3 dot, Ameriglo I dots have a square notched rear and the LAV rear sights seem to be too narrow for a painted FS which tend to be thicker such as Trijicon HDs. Any sights that are available out there that I haven't considered? Also, I like the concept of the Truglo TFOs but they don't seem to get rave reviews across the board and some have reported on FOs falling off. Just thinking that another option might be a Truglo TFO FS and a one dot tritium rear sight w/ a U-notch such as the LAV rear sight. Not sure if they match up in terms of height and width though.
Also, any feedback on the set-up that I'm leaning towards would be appreciated - luminescent painted FS w/ tritium (Trijicon/Ameriglo), one dot rear tritium w/ u notch. I could just pick the Wilson Combat LAV front and rear sights and call it a day but what's holding me back is the lack of the painted front sight. Are painted FS really all that jazz? Also, I read 10-8's write up on picking sights and they don't recommend anything thicker than 0.125 for front sights. The Trijicon HDs are thicker than this so this adds to my confusion as to the best set up. LAV did recommend Trijicon HDs though. I don't have lots of cash and don't have the luxury of trying to do trial and error so I'd like to get the best set up right off the bat, if possible, at least in theory.
I can't imagine a better setup than the Trijicon HD Orange sights. They will eventually be on every handgun I own.
- The orange ring is larger than typical white sight rings.
- The orange ring is photoluminescent and looks like an Aimpoint after hitting it with a flashlight.
- The front sight seems to resist gunpowder residue. Better than others I've tried (even with filthy 45 ammo.
- No rings on rear tritium to distract from the front sight.
- Has a U notch.
- Has a shelf of the rears to facilitate one handed racking.
For me I've found the sights to be much quicker to pick up and I've seen my match scores improve significantly since using them.
I've used various others from OEM to 10-8's (brass bead) and traditional Trijicon sights.
Hemoglobin
09-19-14, 14:43
I use the Ameriglo pro-glo front and pro-op rears. I think they sell them as the spartan tactical combo now. They are basically the HD but a square notch rear and the rear isn't serrated. I like them for what I do. All I use my pistol for is CCW. So I pretty much never shoot it past 10-15 yards. The fiber/tritium combo is quick to pick up and the rear notch is wide enough to make acquisition fast. Not going to make you feel like a rockstar shooting bullesyes at 25 yards though.
I can't imagine a better setup than the Trijicon HD Orange sights. They will eventually be on every handgun I own.
- The orange ring is larger than typical white sight rings.
- The orange ring is photoluminescent and looks like an Aimpoint after hitting it with a flashlight.
- The front sight seems to resist gunpowder residue. Better than others I've tried (even with filthy 45 ammo.
- No rings on rear tritium to distract from the front sight.
- Has a U notch.
- Has a shelf of the rears to facilitate one handed racking.
For me I've found the sights to be much quicker to pick up and I've seen my match scores improve significantly since using them.
I've used various others from OEM to 10-8's (brass bead) and traditional Trijicon sights.
I wish there was an option for a 1 dot rear tritium. How do you like the 3 dot set up?
I really can't say enough about Ameriglo. I have them on (3) Glocks and (2) M&P's, specifically the Hackathorn and ICE models. You can get U notch (pro-I dot's) and two different hi-vis fronts. If you like the square you can get the CAP sights.
Not that there is anything wrong with Trijicon but I find them a little pricey and not nearly as many configurations to suit me. Here's a set I just put on my M&P full size, my aging eyes appreciate the fast pick up front;
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/20140813-DSC_1965-2.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/20140813-DSC_1965-2.jpg.html)
As a comparison here's a set of Heinie's (front dot only) on my XDm. Very clean, very precise and very expensive. Sights are like holsters, you have to try them to get a feel for what works for you and what you like. 10-8 also makes nice offerings but I prefer then on 1911 style guns only.
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg68/mstarmer/20130820-DSC_1814-2.jpg (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/mstarmer/media/20130820-DSC_1814-2.jpg.html)
I don't have lots of cash and don't have the luxury of trying to do trial and error so I'd like to get the best set up right off the bat, if possible, at least in theory.
Sights are a highly personal issue. About one-third of shooters who use night sights prefer two vertical dots, about half prefer three horizontal dots, and the rest prefer a plain black rear with one tritium lamp up front. The best bet is to shoot several types of sights and decide for yourself. I find that that I need to shoot a couple of thousand rounds with each type of sight to really understand what I do and don’t like about it.
In my experience, notch shape is less important than the size, color, and dot layout for low-light performance, though it seems to matter in daylight.
After about 10k rounds spent fiddling with sights, I've become a HUGE fan of the colored front sight post. I will add that which color matters a lot. Orange tends to glow so much in bright light that it develops a halo, so I prefer red. I paint my own sights—a $5.00 bottle of Testor’s model paint is enough for hundreds of front sights.
I can’t comment on TruGlo sights, as I’ve only fired a handful of rounds through them. They’re bright as hell on the range in daylight and very fast, though…
Sight width is another highly individual issue, especially when it comes to the difference between the width of the notch and the width of the post. I’ve shot small groups with wide front sights and big groups with narrow front sights. You can do good work with either if you practice.
If I were to choose one set of off-the-shelf sights, I’d go with Trijicon HDs.
Okie John
teutonicpolymer
09-19-14, 16:42
some sight options:
3-dot trit = Trijicon HD
1-dot trit = Ameriglo Hackathorn
front fiber black rear = Dawson Precisions or TTI
all black = Ameriglo Dueck Defense sights
the type is your preference, I like the 1-dot trit or fiber front black rear
I have to second the suggestion on the Dawson precision sights. Went with an all black rear Charger with a .145 notch and a from .125 FO front on a G35. I am happy with their quality.
jdavis6576
09-20-14, 07:12
I had a longer reply but iOS8 STB so...I've found dot configuration trumps rear notch shape. I have U notch on Glocks (Warrens) and square on my VP9 (Heinie). I prefer the two dot configuration and paint my own front sights with white then orange Testors paint.
After taking a few low light courses my opinion and perspectives on sights have changed. Shooting hundreds/thousands of rounds in low light is more important than walking through my house once or twice at night with a dry gun. Hint: in the low light classes I didn't see the paint on the front sight, didn't miss it either. That's why I pay for tritium.
My vote here is for Trijicon HD sights. Love mine.
I wish there was an option for a 1 dot rear tritium. How do you like the 3 dot set up?
I've found the best/fastest for me to be a U notch with no rear dots. Next best is the 3 dots with no outline on the rears. I have never liked the 2 dot setup. I find it much slower to line up one on top of the other instead of 3 in a row.
Remember though... The lining up of 3 horizontal or 2 vertical tritium tubes is usually done in low light or no light conditions. That said, anytime a person is shooting in those conditions it's an exceptionally good idea to have a white light in use. When the light comes on all dots disappear and you're using a black outline. It's not common to be in a situation where you are taking a shot at someone using the tritium and no light to ID them. It can happen. When I lived alone and nobody had a key, I could legally and morally feel safe using deadly force on any person who entered my home in the middle of the night. No ID was necessary. But the use of tritium sights by themselves is more rare than many like to admit. I am still willing to pay for the comfort of knowing they are there. But I don't carry a gun without a weapon light on it unless it's a BUG. And I always have a handheld light on me.
I have had the opportunity to take many classes and train in low light conditions and concur that a light is pretty much mandatory. ID is everything, even if you do live alone. I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to articulate shooting blind, but that's a different topic.
With the availability of good lights at good prices there really isn't any excuse not to have one on a HD gun. Personally I run front tritium only on just about all my guns but at the minimum I run a light (if I have a rail). In fact if the gun isn't going to be CCW'd then a light would be a better choice than sights if budget is a concern. Again I know this is off topic but for the price of one set of Trijicon HD's you could get a good set of Ameriglo sights and a M3 light.
I really can't say enough about Ameriglo. I have them on (3) Glocks and (2) M&P's, specifically the Hackathorn and ICE models. You can get U notch (pro-I dot's) and two different hi-vis fronts. If you like the square you can get the CAP sights.
Not that there is anything wrong with Trijicon but I find them a little pricey and not nearly as many configurations to suit me. Here's a set I just put on my M&P full size, my aging eyes appreciate the fast pick up front;
Oh, I didn't know the pro-I dots were U notch. I am trying to sort out all their options to get a grasp of all their offerings. A lot of them are discontinued/out of stock too. I really think their website layout could be a lot better.
My recommendation is to go to the range or an IPSC match and ask people to see their sights and find what YOU like.
Sights are very personal.
My favorite so far is a .125 fiber front Dawson with a .125 adjustable black rear. I like a tight sight picture, and only a dot on the front. I like adjustable to zero the sights. Non-adjustable makes no sense to me.
I've found the best/fastest for me to be a U notch with no rear dots. Next best is the 3 dots with no outline on the rears. I have never liked the 2 dot setup. I find it much slower to line up one on top of the other instead of 3 in a row.
Remember though... The lining up of 3 horizontal or 2 vertical tritium tubes is usually done in low light or no light conditions. That said, anytime a person is shooting in those conditions it's an exceptionally good idea to have a white light in use. When the light comes on all dots disappear and you're using a black outline. It's not common to be in a situation where you are taking a shot at someone using the tritium and no light to ID them. It can happen. When I lived alone and nobody had a key, I could legally and morally feel safe using deadly force on any person who entered my home in the middle of the night. No ID was necessary. But the use of tritium sights by themselves is more rare than many like to admit. I am still willing to pay for the comfort of knowing they are there. But I don't carry a gun without a weapon light on it unless it's a BUG. And I always have a handheld light on me.
Yes, I understand. Regarding 3 dot vs 2 dot tritums, I might just have to try it before I can discover which set up works better for me. I was leaning towards 2 dot based on recommendations by famous instructors such as LAV and the concern that you can misalign 3 dot tritiums, although this is mitigated with different colored front vs rears. I understand the part about using the white light and the tritiums disappearing but I just want to have them "just in case" just like you.
Sights are a highly personal issue. About one-third of shooters who use night sights prefer two vertical dots, about half prefer three horizontal dots, and the rest prefer a plain black rear with one tritium lamp up front. The best bet is to shoot several types of sights and decide for yourself. I find that that I need to shoot a couple of thousand rounds with each type of sight to really understand what I do and don’t like about it.
In my experience, notch shape is less important than the size, color, and dot layout for low-light performance, though it seems to matter in daylight.
After about 10k rounds spent fiddling with sights, I've become a HUGE fan of the colored front sight post. I will add that which color matters a lot. Orange tends to glow so much in bright light that it develops a halo, so I prefer red. I paint my own sights—a $5.00 bottle of Testor’s model paint is enough for hundreds of front sights.
I can’t comment on TruGlo sights, as I’ve only fired a handful of rounds through them. They’re bright as hell on the range in daylight and very fast, though…
Sight width is another highly individual issue, especially when it comes to the difference between the width of the notch and the width of the post. I’ve shot small groups with wide front sights and big groups with narrow front sights. You can do good work with either if you practice.
If I were to choose one set of off-the-shelf sights, I’d go with Trijicon HDs.
Okie John
Interesting..from my readings, it seems that I read more of a preference for 2 dot tritiums. With the U-notch, my consideration is day time shooting, and the tritiums for low/no light. I will ignore the tritium dots in daytime. I already have a basic post and square notch on my 1911 so I want to try a U notch and painted FS (with tritium).
I have had the opportunity to take many classes and train in low light conditions and concur that a light is pretty much mandatory. ID is everything, even if you do live alone. I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to articulate shooting blind, but that's a different topic.
With the availability of good lights at good prices there really isn't any excuse not to have one on a HD gun. Personally I run front tritium only on just about all my guns but at the minimum I run a light (if I have a rail). In fact if the gun isn't going to be CCW'd then a light would be a better choice than sights if budget is a concern. Again I know this is off topic but for the price of one set of Trijicon HD's you could get a good set of Ameriglo sights and a M3 light.
Yes, ID is important to me. Not only because I live in Canada and our laws and judicial system is different, I want to make sure that the person is actually presenting a threat before shooting. I live in a pretty good neighborhood, there's a chance that if someone is in my house, it could just be a drunk guy that stumbled into the wrong house not meaning any harm. I do intend on putting a light as well as Crimson Trace laser grips. I don't have much experience, but I don't want to forgo the night sight just because a white light will wash out the sights. Even with CT laser grips, I still want to have Tritium. I just want the gun set up so it's ready for anything and everything, no matter how slim the chance is that it's use (night sights) will be utilized on it's own.
Thumbs up on advice to take a no-light shooting class. It is a whole new ball game, good to have an idea what to expect.
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
My recommendation is to go to the range or an IPSC match and ask people to see their sights and find what YOU like.
Sights are very personal.
My favorite so far is a .125 fiber front Dawson with a .125 adjustable black rear. I like a tight sight picture, and only a dot on the front. I like adjustable to zero the sights. Non-adjustable makes no sense to me.
Problem is that we don't have many ranges here (I live in Canada). The 2 indoor ranges in the city don't have any night sights on their rental pistols, most people that go to shoot are newbs, most people I encounter in the outdoor range that I'm a member of shoot only bolt action hunting type rifles and IPSC matches are far and few in between, are out of town and the only IPSC group the other indoor range in my city requires an expensive membership to their range and a Black Badge certification to join. It really sucks here for tactical/SD/HD oriented type of firearm ownership or shooting. Availability for training is far and few in between and it's hard to know if the instructors are worth what they're charging. I've never heard of any low-light classes here at all.
My recommendation is to go to the range or an IPSC match and ask people to see their sights and find what YOU like.
Sights are very personal.
My favorite so far is a .125 fiber front Dawson with a .125 adjustable black rear. I like a tight sight picture, and only a dot on the front. I like adjustable to zero the sights. Non-adjustable makes no sense to me.
Most reputable instructors don't recommend adjustable sights for HD/CCW use as apparently they are not as durable and can be knocked out of alignment. At least that's what I've gathered so far. Maybe there are more durable adjustable sights now but it doesn't seem to be a common recommendation.
Yes, I understand. Regarding 3 dot vs 2 dot tritums, I might just have to try it before I can discover which set up works better for me. I was leaning towards 2 dot based on recommendations by famous instructors such as LAV and the concern that you can misalign 3 dot tritiums, although this is mitigated with different colored front vs rears. I understand the part about using the white light and the tritiums disappearing but I just want to have them "just in case" just like you.
Agreed - it's ideal to try as many different styles as you can. Regarding mis-aligning the 3 dots... I think it's an overrated concern. The gun would need to be really far out of alignment to do that. To the point that I believe you'd notice it even with your eyes closed. And if it's so dark that all you can see are the dots (not an outline of the slide) then it's likely too dark to shoot a (possible) threat.
Another technique I use on all my sights (HD and regular Trijicon) is to use a sharpie on the rears. It makes them less bright and distracting. That would also make it more difficult to confuse them.
It's also why my second favorite rears are the 10-8's with no dots and a U notch.
Twenty four years in LE and most of that time I had night sights on my duty weapon. Then one day I realized that after pulling my gun hundreds (thousands) of times, I never recalled a situation where it was:
Too dark to see the sights but still light enough - ambient or flashlight - to ID the target.
However, night sights sure did allow me to shoot some awesome scores during the "low light" qual course, which is about markmanship, not gunfighting.
So I went to plain, black sights. No dots, no U, no paint. I decided that if the bad guy was close, I was going to point shoot while on the move anyways and if I needed to make a headshot at 25 yds, I needed crisp black sights for the best sight picture possible.
Of course, a couple of years ago, I moved to the big leagues. Once you put a red dot on your pistol, you realize all the discussion about sights is passe. But notice that the backup irons are plain black.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w243/wadep211/posted%20in%20a%20forum/56608E75-5C2B-42C6-A98E-6A365D64D447-1650-00000188DB99E3B1.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/wadep211/media/posted%20in%20a%20forum/56608E75-5C2B-42C6-A98E-6A365D64D447-1650-00000188DB99E3B1.jpg.html)
Most reputable instructors don't recommend adjustable sights for HD/CCW use as apparently they are not as durable and can be knocked out of alignment. At least that's what I've gathered so far. Maybe there are more durable adjustable sights now but it doesn't seem to be a common recommendation.
Some do.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?94770-Adjustable-Sights
Okie John
Agreed - it's ideal to try as many different styles as you can. Regarding mis-aligning the 3 dots... I think it's an overrated concern. The gun would need to be really far out of alignment to do that. To the point that I believe you'd notice it even with your eyes closed. And if it's so dark that all you can see are the dots (not an outline of the slide) then it's likely too dark to shoot a (possible) threat.
Another technique I use on all my sights (HD and regular Trijicon) is to use a sharpie on the rears. It makes them less bright and distracting. That would also make it more difficult to confuse them.
It's also why my second favorite rears are the 10-8's with no dots and a U notch.
Yeah, I was wondering how someone would misalign it that bad. Costa said he's done it under stress and since I haven't practiced with nights sights at all, much less under stress, I took the concern into consideration. I also heard about the sharpie thing, apparently Ken Hackathorn advises that.
Twenty four years in LE and most of that time I had night sights on my duty weapon. Then one day I realized that after pulling my gun hundreds (thousands) of times, I never recalled a situation where it was:
Too dark to see the sights but still light enough - ambient or flashlight - to ID the target.
However, night sights sure did allow me to shoot some awesome scores during the "low light" qual course, which is about markmanship, not gunfighting.
So I went to plain, black sights. No dots, no U, no paint. I decided that if the bad guy was close, I was going to point shoot while on the move anyways and if I needed to make a headshot at 25 yds, I needed crisp black sights for the best sight picture possible.
Of course, a couple of years ago, I moved to the big leagues. Once you put a red dot on your pistol, you realize all the discussion about sights is passe. But notice that the backup irons are plain black.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w243/wadep211/posted%20in%20a%20forum/56608E75-5C2B-42C6-A98E-6A365D64D447-1650-00000188DB99E3B1.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/wadep211/media/posted%20in%20a%20forum/56608E75-5C2B-42C6-A98E-6A365D64D447-1650-00000188DB99E3B1.jpg.html)
Yeah, I thought about RMRs but since I'm a new shooter, I figured I'd hone my fundamentals with irons first and since I'm in Canada, it's gonna be more difficult to get that (I think) and I'm not sure about how well it would do in extreme cold. I watched the video by Costa about the pros and cons of RMRs. Some instructors have said they're not sure if they're faster than irons too. Maybe it's a learning curve. Regardless, I gotta get good with the irons first, I think.
Some do.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?94770-Adjustable-Sights
Okie John
Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I love his YT vids.
teutonicpolymer
09-22-14, 21:51
Yeah, I thought about RMRs but since I'm a new shooter, I figured I'd hone my fundamentals with irons first and since I'm in Canada, it's gonna be more difficult to get that (I think) and I'm not sure about how well it would do in extreme cold. I watched the video by Costa about the pros and cons of RMRs. Some instructors have said they're not sure if they're faster than irons too. Maybe it's a learning curve. Regardless, I gotta get good with the irons first, I think.
It is my opinion that fundamentals will be hit with or without optics-
Sight alignment is probably the easiest thing you can learn to do mechanically whereas good trigger press, consistency, recoil control, reloading, and general form are more difficult
I know there are plenty of people that will disagree with me but I more or less learned to shoot rifles with optics and moving "down" to iron sights never has been a huge issue
It is my opinion that fundamentals will be hit with or without optics-
Sight alignment is probably the easiest thing you can learn to do mechanically whereas good trigger press, consistency, recoil control, reloading, and general form are more difficult
I know there are plenty of people that will disagree with me but I more or less learned to shoot rifles with optics and moving "down" to iron sights never has been a huge issue
Yeah, I don't know about that. Sight alignment is easy with slow fire but when factoring in speed with reasonable accuracy, esp with movement, I think tracking iron sights needs a lot of practice.. Also, since most guns have irons, I wanna be proficient with irons because if I have to pick up a gun that isn't mine and it has irons, then I want to be effective with it.
teutonicpolymer
09-22-14, 22:22
Yeah, I don't know about that. Sight alignment is easy with slow fire but when factoring in speed with reasonable accuracy, esp with movement, I think tracking iron sights needs a lot of practice.. Also, since most guns have irons, I wanna be proficient with irons because if I have to pick up a gun that isn't mine and it has irons, then I want to be effective with it.
My point isn't that iron sights are better or worse but to not rule out starting with optics just because it is against popular opinion. This argument is probably more applicable to rifles. but still, shooting with irons is really not that hard with pistols. The major skill you learn is tracking the front sight but that comes pretty fast once you become aware of your goals in iron sight shooting. Then again I might be biased because most of the shooting I have done in my years has been iron sight pistol/revolver shooting.
On a side note I highly recommend you read Brian Enos' book "Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals"
On a side note I highly recommend you read Brian Enos' book "Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals"
Thanks. I had planned on getting that book in the past and I've forgotten about it.
beschatten
09-24-14, 13:08
I'm a big fan of .125 wide rear, and either a .115 or .125 front. No funky U notch, no "rapid response" XXL wide rear notch, XXL Big Dot front, etc. I ditched them all.
If you are vision impaired, you need to see a doctor and get some glasses or contacts or look into surgery, not make up for it by getting the latest and greatest sights.
My pistols now run, 2 gold bead front sights, 2 green fo front sights, and 2 plain black irons depending on the purpose I put behind them.
I will NEVER fire without a light to ID in low light/no light. Not sure about LEOs or other states, but I would like to avoid as much of a legal shit storm as possible.
And whatever, you do, practice, practice, practice with whatever you do choose. YMMV.
Straight Shooter
09-25-14, 02:21
Ameriglo CAPS. They absolutely POP in the dark. Brightest by far Ive seen. Get the photolumenesent {sp?} green. Ive got the red one too, but its not photolumen...whatever. In pitch black, just the front sight is very easy to see. If you hit em with light for a few seconds, both front and rear shine like a full moon. Getting another pair soon for a new Glock 41 Im going to get.
As for adjustables....I have NEVER understood the TABOO apparently about using them, though I don't own any myself. Id buy a quality adj. rear in a minute if I thought I needed it. Seems to me that's another remnant of internet bullshit that wont die. But, others opinions will vary Im sure.
For night sights, I would go with Ameriglo I-Dot's. They don't have a flashy rear sight, which I really like, but they do have a catchy front.
That said, I use 10-8's on all my Glocks. .100" green fiber optic front, black .156" rear. Incredibly quick to pick up during the day because of the FO, still precise at distance, and at night, I'm using a white light so I can still see the outline of my sights. I might try a narrower rear on the next set, but the .100/.156 has been great.
teutonicpolymer
09-27-14, 07:41
Ameriglo CAPS. They absolutely POP in the dark. Brightest by far Ive seen. Get the photolumenesent {sp?} green. Ive got the red one too, but its not photolumen...whatever. In pitch black, just the front sight is very easy to see. If you hit em with light for a few seconds, both front and rear shine like a full moon. Getting another pair soon for a new Glock 41 Im going to get.
As for adjustables....I have NEVER understood the TABOO apparently about using them, though I don't own any myself. Id buy a quality adj. rear in a minute if I thought I needed it. Seems to me that's another remnant of internet bullshit that wont die. But, others opinions will vary Im sure.
I would not trust some adjustables (one that comes to mind is the BHP barrel adjustable sight) but others I might trust. I like Bomar style rears and they have been fairly sturdy for me but it would not be my choice if I planned to rack the slide with the rear sight.
Trijicon Orange HD's are easier to pick up with older eyes. M&P9 FS
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1321/4777050/9916512/408475650.jpg
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