I Have A Stupid Newbie Question...

[SteyrAUG]

I'm sitting here going through a lot of WWII vintage ammo and I was struck by the 100% lead bullet .45 ammo and even found some 100% lead 8mm Mauser and 30.06 ammo. And it got me to thinking about the cost of copper, copper jackets and the cost of buying bullets for reloading.

So what would happen if I reloaded 5.56 with cast lead rounds? Would the lead be about the same or worse than copper fouling from jacketed rounds in AR barrel?

Given the faster twist rates (1/7 vs. 1/12 on older ARs) would lead rounds result in longer barrel life vs. copper jacket rounds?

Back in the 80s we shot a lot of "lead" reloads in our 1911s and 9mm handguns and it didn't seem to do any harm. Just wondering what needs to be considered for a modern rifle?

[vicious_cb]

Shooting cast lead out of anything with a gas system is a bad idea...

[Leaveammoforme]

I wonder if the projectile would even make it out of the barrel? Lead projectile at 3200 FPS would just lead line your bore. Now if you used a gas check that covered almost all the way to the meplat you would probably be in business. But those exist and they are called 'soft points'. Soft points are usually more expensive than FMJ :)

I wouldn't attempt. Too fast for lead only.

[oldandslow]

steyr,

Cast lead loads out of an .223/556 AR are quite do-able. During the recent great hording I was unable to get FMJ's of any type so it was either stop shooting or cast lead boolits. The castboolits forum was a great resource and many reload .223/556 over there. As I already cast lead boolits for .45acp, 9mm, 38sp, 30/30win,30-06, and full-bore 12 gauge slugs (770 grains) I was familiar with the processes.

I put 975 cast-lead reloads through my LMT CQB AR (l:7 twist) with no leading of the barrel, gas tube or bolt. It was boringly reliable. The down side is it takes a lot of work to make cast lead loads for the AR.

First is the mold- I chose a NOE heavy 70 grain mold which dropped boolits at 72 grains with my alloy (analyzed at 97.18% lead, 2.22% antimony and 0.435% tin). First chore was finding an overall length which would feed into the chamber with minimal boolit deformity. Starting at 2.250" (the max that would fit in my mags) I loaded progressively shorter rounds till I found at a COAL of 2.184" had no nose deformity.

Next was working up the load. I only had IMR-4064 powder and could not get any other types. 4064 worked well but would meter slowly and you had to have a clean inside neck so the powder would not bridge and spill onto the shell plate (Dillon 650). As long as I neck-brushed and then stainless steel pin-tumbled the cases the inside necks were squeeky clean. The problem was getting a decent velocity and maintaining accuracy. I found that velocities over 2000 ft/second became inaccurate and over 2200 ft/second the boolit nose would spin off the base and two chunks of lead would fly downrange. I tried adding tin to get a mixture up to 2% tin but had no significant improvement in velocities without boolit-breakup. In the past I even tried adding copper to get my 30-06 loads more velocity but did not have any luck. Twenty to 21 grains of 4064 seemed to work well giving 2-3 MOA with a Leupold 2-8 power VX-3 scope.

The only problem was with the lower velocity there was some short-stroking of the action requiring a reduced-power buffer spring from Wolf- then no more cycling problems.

Boolit processing was a pain as you needed to cast, heat treat (400 degrees in an over for 60 minutes and then drop in water to get the hardness up from BHN-8 with air cooling to 15 with heat treating), size (0.225" Lee push through sizer), gas-check and then pan-lube. You had to use a Lyman m-dye to gently flair the case so the boolit would seat without undue deformity.

So in summary it is quite possible to get acceptable results with cast-lead boolits in an .223/556 AR but now that FMJ's are available at $0.09 per bullet I have quit casting for now.

best wishes- oldandslow

[jpmuscle]

Tagged for interest. I always wondered if this was doable in 5.56

[markm]

There was some whistle dick here or on ArfTard that actually made some really nice looking cast AR bullets. There is, however, no amount of money savings that would drive me to do this.

[anachronism]

It's completely do-able, but is probably not an entry level project. Here are more details on one approach: http://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharris/articles/Cast%20In%20an%20AR.htm

[SteyrAUG]

Shooting cast lead out of anything with a gas system is a bad idea...

Didn't think of that. What problems were encountered with rifles like the M1 Garand?

[jpmuscle]

Didn't think of that. What problems were encountered with rifles like the M1 Garand?
I'm guessing it has to do with inhaling lead particulates?

[T2C]

I have fired several thousand rounds of lead reloads out of M1 Garands, 1903 Springfields and M1 Carbines.

Most cast lead bullets in .30 caliber and 8mm are good for up to 1500 fps. Faster velocities require a much harder bullet or a gas check to avoid excessive leading. A .224 lead reload may have different operating parameters. Loading an AR cartridge that will reliably cycle the bolt may require velocities high enough to require a gas check.

After shooting a large quantity of lead bullets through a rifle with a gas system, expect to have lead blowing out of the system with the first few shots of ball ammunition. I would clean the gas system thoroughly on a M1 Garand or M1 Carbine before switching back to ball ammunition after shooting lead projectiles. This would be difficult with an AR-15.

After shooting several hundred rounds of .22LR out of an AR with a conversion kit, I pull a bronze brush through the bore, then shoot a few rounds of 62g ball through the rifle to clear the lead out of the gas system. Make sure that you are wearing eye protection and do this at your own risk.

I don't mind dealing with the details associated with lead reloads fired out of a M1 Garand or M1 Carbine, but I stick to loading jacketed projectiles out of my AR's.

[nate89]

I have been reading about powder coating load bullets for pistol rounds, but i'm not sure how it would work with a high velocity rifle. It's a bit of work, but it seems like a durable enough coating to stand the velocity without coming off.