View Full Version : ‘Not a Snowball’s Chance In Hell': Marine Corps Commandant on Obama’s ISIS Strategy
wild_wild_wes
09-21-14, 19:46
Former MC Commandant, but even so:
“I don’t think the president’s plan has a snowball’s chance in hell of succeeding,” retired Marine General James Conway, who served as the 34th Commandant of the Marine Corps during the end of the Bush administration and the beginning of the Obama administration, said at the Maverick PAC Conference in Washington, D.C. Friday, according to a source in attendance.
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/09/179747-former-head-marine-corps-slams-obamas-isis-strategy-potent-dose-reality/
Meanwhile, I hear on the network national new tonight that Obama "continues to build a large international coalition"... I will believe that when I see them put some boots on the ground. And if and when those non-US troops actually deploy in theatre and begin combat operations, how effective will they be without US command and control? How aggressive will they be?...anyone remember Tora Bora?
Glad to see someone call it like they see it...
montanadave
09-22-14, 09:13
Everybody's a critic but solutions still seem to be in short supply.
Everybody's a critic but solutions still seem to be in short supply.
I think the JCS has come out and said some sort of BOG is required.
Why any country would sign up for a US led coalition is beyond my reasoning. We are not in it to win, so why sacrifice your troops when the desired outcome is a tie?
montanadave
09-22-14, 10:42
Frankly, my ass is a tad weary of listening to all the experts who failed to get the job done when they were at the helm, whether it be the politicians who prattle on endlessly and don't do shit, the bankers who "advise" us on fiscal and monetary policy while they burn their own house (and ours) down, or military commanders who continually demand just "one more war" because they'll get 'er done this time.
**** these experts. Why we continually go back and listen to the same people who failed to get it right the first hundred times simply boggles my mind.
There's no chance of Hussein's dopey plan to succeed. Won't take the smelly animals long to figure out the US won't bomb mosques, shools, and neighborhoods etc.
I'm glad our imbecile president is locked into no ground troops. It guarantees that this will all make him look like the incompetent idiot he is.
Maybe--just maybe--some of the current military leadership read this and would rather not be immortalized the same way.
http://www.amazon.com/Dereliction-Duty-Johnson-McNamara-Vietnam/dp/0060929081/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411402068&sr=1-1&keywords=dereliction+of+duty+by+h.r.+mcmaster
montanadave
09-22-14, 11:24
Maybe--just maybe--some of the current military leadership read this and would rather not be immortalized the same way.
http://www.amazon.com/Dereliction-Duty-Johnson-McNamara-Vietnam/dp/0060929081/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1411402068&sr=1-1&keywords=dereliction+of+duty+by+h.r.+mcmaster
Watch McNamara in The Fog of War followed by Rumsfeld in The Unknown Known. Then try to tell me we should listen to the experts. At least McNamara was willing to show some contrition for his mistakes. Rumsfeld can't even acknowledge he made any mistakes. How's that for progress?
MountainRaven
09-22-14, 11:35
I want to know how many of you BOG advocates are volunteering to be the first American combat troops to have your boots on that ground. How many of you are going to send your children to Iraq and Syria to do battle with the forces of the Islamic State.
The President is not going to send Americans to die in that God-forsaken hellhole, especially not now, when the American public has no stomach for it.
If you want to fight in some Grand Crusade against ISIS/ISIL/IS, raise your banners, ask for volunteers and donations and go do it yourself. I'm sure the Peshmerga would be happy to have you.
Dave, if you really want frustration on steroids, read some of John Boyd's stuff and apply those ideas to what we are witnessing now...
http://www.amazon.com/U.-S.-Marine-Corps-Staff/e/B00ANZ4XBE/ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1?qid=1411407903&sr=1-1
I'm currently rereading some of my highlighted, dogeared, tear stained stuff of his, and swearing a lot. Stupid doesn't even BEGIN to describe our behavior.
We're not "in it to win it" regardless of what the Doofus in Chief might say on the subject. The Commandant is absolutely correct in this particular case, that DiC's plan doesn't stand a chance in hell of working as planned. Therefore, why should we endanger a single life for the effort? It makes about as much sense as walking up and pissing on a 4 alarm house fire. :(
wildcard600
09-22-14, 15:48
I want to know how many of you BOG advocates are volunteering to be the first American combat troops to have your boots on that ground. How many of you are going to send your children to Iraq and Syria to do battle with the forces of the Islamic State.
The President is not going to send Americans to die in that God-forsaken hellhole, especially not now, when the American public has no stomach for it.
If you want to fight in some Grand Crusade against ISIS/ISIL/IS, raise your banners, ask for volunteers and donations and go do it yourself. I'm sure the Peshmerga would be happy to have you.
Yep. Things are alot different when its someone elses ass on the line.
thopkins22
09-22-14, 21:02
It's begun. Not exactly the broad coalition that H.W. built.
wild_wild_wes
09-22-14, 21:56
It's a coalition in the stratosphere, so far.
I want to know how many of you BOG advocates are volunteering to be the first American combat troops to have your boots on that ground. How many of you are going to send your children to Iraq and Syria to do battle with the forces of the Islamic State.
The President is not going to send Americans to die in that God-forsaken hellhole, especially not now, when the American public has no stomach for it.
If you want to fight in some Grand Crusade against ISIS/ISIL/IS, raise your banners, ask for volunteers and donations and go do it yourself. I'm sure the Peshmerga would be happy to have you.
But we'll send them to fight Ebola??
Frankly, my ass is a tad weary of listening to all the experts who failed to get the job done when they were at the helm, whether it be the politicians who prattle on endlessly and don't do shit, the bankers who "advise" us on fiscal and monetary policy while they burn their own house (and ours) down, or military commanders who continually demand just "one more war" because they'll get 'er done this time.
**** these experts. Why we continually go back and listen to the same people who failed to get it right the first hundred times simply boggles my mind.
The experts in uniform, most of them anyway, were critical of the timeline to withdraw troops from Iraq and critical of how the admin handled the transition of power (and how that was going to lead to an insurgency). The mil folks I listen to as they have, have had, or will have a dog in the fight. The politicians who are signing off on this stuff, not so much...they are just kicking the can. You can't blame the generals and admirals...they did their job as specified by the administration.
thopkins22
09-24-14, 14:15
You can't blame the generals and admirals...they did their job as specified by the administration.
If they are that great at their jobs and realize the problems inherent with the mission they've been given, I'm of the opinion that they should feel compelled to address the problems. As it stands they did their job as specified, and we have thousands of dead young men with nothing to show for it but the potential for Iraq to fall to a group that is far worse than what was there in the first place.
Far too many people willing to say "Yes sir, we can do that." When in fact that's been shown to be inaccurate.
It has nothing to do with the fighting capability of America, it has nothing to do with the intelligence and capability of the young men and women doing the best they can with a bad situation, but it has everything to do with the type of war we've been attempting to win for fifty years.
Perhaps there's pushback behind closed doors, but the fact that nobody seems willing to risk their careers over a dumb policy is telling to me.
If they are that great at their jobs and realize the problems inherent with the mission they've been given, I'm of the opinion that they should feel compelled to address the problems. As it stands they did their job as specified, and we have thousands of dead young men with nothing to show for it but the potential for Iraq to fall to a group that is far worse than what was there in the first place.
Far too many people willing to say "Yes sir, we can do that." When in fact that's been shown to be inaccurate.
It has nothing to do with the fighting capability of America, it has nothing to do with the intelligence and capability of the young men and women doing the best they can with a bad situation, but it has everything to do with the type of war we've been attempting to win for fifty years.
Perhaps there's pushback behind closed doors, but the fact that nobody seems willing to risk their careers over a dumb policy is telling to me.
Your assessment does not bear out what happened. Several officers who spoke out in the wrong way (through the media, which is never appropriate with senior military leadership) were shit-canned. It has been my experience that leadership does desire candor from its officer corps; however, once the marching orders are passed, they can a) obey them and do the best they can, b) refuse and be fired, or c) resign. This is very similar to where I work: we disagree in private and can hash out the issues, but once management makes the decision, I either follow their orders or I will be asked to find a new job.
I'm glad our imbecile president is locked into no ground troops.
He'll reverse on that one too. Remember "you can keep your current plan."
Your assessment does not bear out what happened. Several officers who spoke out in the wrong way (through the media, which is never appropriate with senior military leadership) were shit-canned. It has been my experience that leadership does desire candor from its officer corps; however, once the marching orders are passed, they can a) obey them and do the best they can, b) refuse and be fired, or c) resign. This is very similar to where I work: we disagree in private and can hash out the issues, but once management makes the decision, I either follow their orders or I will be asked to find a new job.
You've as much as conceded that their careers were more important to them than doing the right thing. Well, except for the ones that either resigned or spoke out and got fired. :(
You've as much as conceded that their careers were more important to them than doing the right thing. Well, except for the ones that either resigned or spoke out and got fired. :(
You inferred that, I did not imply that. Petraeus (sp?) was very vocal about his role; as we find out after the fact, he made his bones with Gates in private, where it should have been. You are either in the military, and carry out policy, or a politician, and make policy. You cannot do both.
But I think it is very telling that mil leadership, active and retired, are speaking out now.
MountainRaven
09-24-14, 15:42
There was a time and place where a general - upon receiving an order with which he vehemently disagreed - would write a note specifying the reasoning behind his disagreement, and then commit suicide.
Of course, the place is one where CEOs resign if the companies they run turn out a defective product. But the time isn't that long ago.
I doubt there are many general officers in today's military who would willingly give their lives in exchange for the hope of saving the lives of thousands of junior officers and enlisted personnel.
You inferred that, I did not imply that. Petraeus (sp?) was very vocal about his role; as we find out after the fact, he made his bones with Gates in private, where it should have been. You are either in the military, and carry out policy, or a politician, and make policy. You cannot do both.
But I think it is very telling that mil leadership, active and retired, are speaking out now.
It wasn't so much an inferrence as pointing out the other side of the same coin.
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