View Full Version : Plates for class
I've been reading through old post about what would be the best solution for a civilian who wanted to protect themself in shoot house classes. There are several threads with detailed info but generally are a few years old. So I'm more interested in identify time tested and gold standard solutions. What is the current recommendation(s) for an individual that prefers a durable, budget friendly solution that will protect from 5.56 M193 & M855, 7.62 M80, and AK rounds at CQB distances. Plate size preference is 10"x12".
Order of importance:
Durability
Spall protection
Cost
Weight
Your order of importance points to steel armor plates. Find a reputable dealer/manuf who has a good spall protection. Bulletproofme.com, etc.
In person I received a recommendation from a reputable source to consider "5mm MARs steel plates" however I haven't been able to find as much info using that as a specific search query on Google. I had a very brief discussion with the person at the end of a class and didn't get a chance to ask all the questions I would have liked answered. Is there a tangible distinction between MARs steel and AR500?
If you are genuinely worried about M193 at cqb distance go ceramic. Fast and light 5.56 causes fits for most steel plates. Bulletproofme has lvl 4 ceramic plates for $145 each, they are heavy but stop both M855 and M193 at cqb range.
That said I'm getting ready to buy some "rifle" plates for a cqb class. I'm not real worried about M193 and I want to use the plates in some force on force/hands on drills. So for me the durability of steel so I can wrestle, drop to prone, run into walls (I'm clumsy..) and get shot with sims/utms means steel is more appealing to me than ceramics.
superr.stu
09-24-14, 17:18
I have a couple sets I either use myself of loan out. A set of Gamma's that meet the needs of what I would expect in a shoot house, or when I'm working AI for a class of new shooters that might make me nervous. They're a little heavy, and a little thick, but they do the job. Also I upgraded to a set of Velocity P34's with soft backers, IMO can't go wrong with that combo, fairly light, fairly thin, not as cool as Velocity BZ's but they get the job done. If I were in the market for a new set today, and on my dime, I would be all over another set of P34's.
kaltesherz
09-24-14, 18:20
I'd stick with ceramic multi-curve as they're more comfortable, lighter, and defeat more threats than steel. If you paid good money for a class you should spend it paying attention and not in pain because you're in some uncomfortable armor.
Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 20:56
Ceramic expires, AR500 doesn't. You can't drop ceramic on its side, AR500 you can throw it from a 20 story building. After multiple hits, ceramic is done, AR500 keeps going. If 2-4 oz more is an issue, get a gym membership, or a 20-60lb weighted vest and start working out. Because most likely, you're out of shape. Just saying.
Fear nothing, Nor anyone!
Ceramic expires, AR500 doesn't. You can't drop ceramic on its side, AR500 you can throw it from a 20 story building. After multiple hits, ceramic is done, AR500 keeps going. If 2-4 oz more is an issue, get a gym membership, or a 20-60lb weighted vest and start working out. Because most likely, you're out of shape. Just saying.
Fear nothing, Nor anyone!
The military uses ceramic for a reason. Oz leads to pounds, and it's not just a few oz difference between ceramic and steel plates.
Steel has splash and maybe spall to deal with. What's the point if a fragment of metal splashes off the plate and hits your brachial artery? Yes there are coatings for steel - show me independent testing from hits at a variety of angles.
kaltesherz
09-24-14, 21:12
Ceramic expires, AR500 doesn't. You can't drop ceramic on its side, AR500 you can throw it from a 20 story building. After multiple hits, ceramic is done, AR500 keeps going. If 2-4 oz more is an issue, get a gym membership, or a 20-60lb weighted vest and start working out. Because most likely, you're out of shape. Just saying.
Fear nothing, Nor anyone!
LOL, seriously? Where did you hear that crap?
Ceramic plates don't expire. And they're durable. A lot more durable than you think. If you think your average grunt takes off his armor and gingerly places it down ever day after a 12 hour patrol, you're wrong. Ceramic also does multiple hits very well. Also it's a lot more than 2-4oz heavier, and I'd rather not hump extra weight.
Think about it, if AR500 was so great why is no one in the military using it on the front lines?
Here's a video of ghetto testing a damaged ESAPI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIarVbfERq4
Here's another. Again- not very scientific but takes a lot more abuse than you'd think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9nsT05SsFU
Also feel free to check out the AR500 thread a few subjects down.
Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:33
With the new spall coating, it's a non-factor. Proven hundreds of times via YouTube. So if it's too heavy (Again, 2-4 oz. You might want to leave off that "1" 30rd mag.). It's curved, with shooters cuts, single or dual spall coating, and ceramic has a recommended shelf life of 10 years. That's why most of them should, or do have manufacture dates. Constant moisture weakens the material over time.
http://youtu.be/8gyfx-pJhO4
http://youtu.be/mt5hJORcbkQ
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:39
And the newer spall material is even BETTER than what's currently in this video.
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kaltesherz
09-24-14, 21:39
With the new spall coating, it's a non-factor. Proven hundreds of times via YouTube. So if it's too heavy (Again, 2-4 oz. You might want to leave off that "1" 30rd mag.). It's curved, with shooters cuts, single or dual spall coating, and ceramic has a recommended shelf life of 10 years. That's why most of them should, or do have manufacture dates. Constant moisture weakens the material over time.
http://youtu.be/8gyfx-pJhO4
http://youtu.be/mt5hJORcbkQ
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Now try shooting that steel with a 20" AR w/ M193 or 7.62x54R AP. Both will go right through it. ESAPI will stop both.
Everything in the .mil has a production date on it, doesn't mean it expires. Again, this is why every professional wears ceramic into combat.
Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:40
Now try shooting that steel with a 20" AR w/ M193 or 7.62x54R AP. Both will go right through it. ESAPI will stop both.
Everything in the .mil has a production date on it, doesn't mean it expires. Again, this is why every professional wears ceramic into combat.
They've already done it. LOL but I'll let you go get the video for yourself.
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:42
Plus, that steel core, is certified "quote" unquote, as AP, i.e. The ban on the 5.45 round.
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:47
Annnnnnnd here's your popular ceramic after just 5 measly shots from a 7.62! LOL
http://youtu.be/h1FgutJeyr8
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HardToHandle
09-24-14, 21:50
Proven hundreds of times via YouTube.
Gotcha. YouTube.
For the OP -
1) Great name
2) As Grizzly noted, you'll save minimum money with steel vs. ceramic
I have both steel and ceramic sets. At the time, there was a 70% cost differential between the two - not today's 20-40% differential. Having tried both in the field, a day in ceramic plates is always preferable to comparable steel plates for comfort.
Steel is for training, ceramic is for the real world.
Your experience may be different.
kaltesherz
09-24-14, 21:53
Plus, that steel core, is certified "quote" unquote, as AP, i.e. The ban on the 5.45 round.
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Steel core and AP are not the same, 7N6 is not an AP round.
Here's M193 defeating AR500.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM&app=desktop
7.62X54R AP (not steel core, actual AP) is very similar to M2 Ball AP, here's a video defeating AR500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYH8ap1TDo
Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:54
Everyone has their own favorites. So I'm not upset by anyone's choice. I'm just stating, "There are other options besides ceramic.". I know that after watching the video, and being a retired medical professional, I would not want my sternum taking the brunt on those shots. Bone fragments can do just as much damage as bullet fragments.
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 21:56
Steel core and AP are not the same, 7N6 is not an AP round.
Here's M193 defeating AR500.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1K3wCRjcdM&app=desktop
7.62X54R AP (not steel core, actual AP) is very similar to M2 Ball AP, here's a video defeating AR500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzYH8ap1TDo
Now can you show me one where the ceramic is consistently defeating it after multiple shots? Say, 2-3 shots?
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 22:09
Like he stated, "The tradeoff is, if the AR500 stops the 1st round, there's really no worries about the following rounds. Where the Ceramic is highly degraded after the 1st round.". It did a great job. But in a SHTF situation, I want the plate that's going to take a licking, and keep on ticking. Because I know, there aren't many who'll have that M193 ammo.
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 22:09
Like he stated, "The tradeoff is, if the AR500 stops the 1st round, there's really no worries about the following rounds. Where the Ceramic is highly degraded after the 1st round.". It did a great job. But in a SHTF situation, I want the plate that's going to take a licking, and keep on ticking. Because I know, there aren't many who'll have that M193 ammo.
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http://youtu.be/fOxX8SmfQ0c
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Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 22:10
"It"
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Ceramic expires, AR500 doesn't. You can't drop ceramic on its side, AR500 you can throw it from a 20 story building. After multiple hits, ceramic is done, AR500 keeps going. If 2-4 oz more is an issue, get a gym membership, or a 20-60lb weighted vest and start working out. Because most likely, you're out of shape. Just saying.
Fear nothing, Nor anyone!
There is so much wrong with this post, it's hard to decide where to begin tearing it apart.
1) Armor "expiration dates" are due to the fact that a manufacturer cannot control the conditions where a plate is kept. This date isn't when the plate will go bad, but when the manufacturer will no longer be able to state with 90+% certainty that it will perform up to its rated specification. Even your highly vaunted steel plate has these dates listed. The "expiration date" is not when the plate "goes bad," but instead when the manufacturer will no longer be responsible for defects in the system. This is not a gallon of milk, nor a carton of eggs we are talking about. Even a diamond at some point will decompose into non-cubic arranged carbon atoms.
2) A ceramic plate is not nearly as fragile as your hyperbole makes it out to be. These armor systems were designed for soldier, and their needs-so that means going hands on, going prone, etc was incorporated into their design requirements. Treat your armor like you'd treat your own body, generally speaking, and life will be good. I'm fairly sure that if you were hucked off of a 20 story building, you'd need to be at least X-Rayed.
3) Multiple hits? Really? Call up Armored Mobility Inc, and get them to share with you the testing results from their TAC3S plate. In testing, a TAC3S withstood 100+rnds of m855, with no penetration. Or ask VelSys about how many rounds their plates have stopped in sequential testing. (spoilers: it's a lot) How many rounds are you really worried about stopping here? If you have a plate that catches a round-give thanks to God, and then retire the old plate and replace it.
4) Armor sucks to wear. Even if you ARE in shape, it still sucks to wear. If you can mitigate some of that suck by going with a lighter material, I'm all for it.
5) Spall/Splash-That plate you are wearing is either curved IN towards you, or at worst, a flat plate. Have you seen any testing that shows where the spall and splash winds up? I haven't. I'm not super eager to be a test-dummy to find out either. And those fancy wondercoatings you see? Pretty much pickup truck bedliner. Not bad stuff, don't misunderstand me, but I've not seen enough conclusive testing to convince me of it's merits.
Jakedasnake
09-24-14, 22:12
There is so much wrong with this post, it's hard to decide where to begin tearing it apart.
1) Armor "expiration dates" are due to the fact that a manufacturer cannot control the conditions where a plate is kept. This date isn't when the plate will go bad, but when the manufacturer will no longer be able to state with 90+% certainty that it will perform up to its rated specification. Even your highly vaunted steel plate has these dates listed. The "expiration date" is not when the plate "goes bad," but instead when the manufacturer will no longer be responsible for defects in the system. This is not a gallon of milk, nor a carton of eggs we are talking about. Even a diamond at some point will decompose into non-cubic arranged carbon atoms.
2) A ceramic plate is not nearly as fragile as your hyperbole makes it out to be. These armor systems were designed for soldier, and their needs-so that means going hands on, going prone, etc was incorporated into their design requirements. Treat your armor like you'd treat your own body, generally speaking, and life will be good. I'm fairly sure that if you were hucked off of a 20 story building, you'd need to be at least X-Rayed.
3) Multiple hits? Really? Call up Armored Mobility Inc, and get them to share with you the testing results from their TAC3S plate. In testing, a TAC3S withstood 100+rnds of m855, with no penetration. Or ask VelSys about how many rounds their plates have stopped in sequential testing. (spoilers: it's a lot) How many rounds are you really worried about stopping here? If you have a plate that catches a round-give thanks to God, and then retire the old plate and replace it.
4) Armor sucks to wear. Even if you ARE in shape, it still sucks to wear. If you can mitigate some of that suck by going with a lighter material, I'm all for it.
5) Spall/Splash-That plate you are wearing is either curved IN towards you, or at worst, a flat plate. Have you seen any testing that shows where the spall and splash winds up? I haven't. I'm not super eager to be a test-dummy to find out either. And those fancy wondercoatings you see? Pretty much pickup truck bedliner. Not bad stuff, don't misunderstand me, but I've not seen enough conclusive testing to convince me of it's merits.
Go to my last post.
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kaltesherz
09-24-14, 22:17
There is so much wrong with this post, it's hard to decide where to begin tearing it apart.
1) Armor "expiration dates" are due to the fact that a manufacturer cannot control the conditions where a plate is kept. This date isn't when the plate will go bad, but when the manufacturer will no longer be able to state with 90+% certainty that it will perform up to its rated specification. Even your highly vaunted steel plate has these dates listed. The "expiration date" is not when the plate "goes bad," but instead when the manufacturer will no longer be responsible for defects in the system. This is not a gallon of milk, nor a carton of eggs we are talking about. Even a diamond at some point will decompose into non-cubic arranged carbon atoms.
2) A ceramic plate is not nearly as fragile as your hyperbole makes it out to be. These armor systems were designed for soldier, and their needs-so that means going hands on, going prone, etc was incorporated into their design requirements. Treat your armor like you'd treat your own body, generally speaking, and life will be good. I'm fairly sure that if you were hucked off of a 20 story building, you'd need to be at least X-Rayed.
3) Multiple hits? Really? Call up Armored Mobility Inc, and get them to share with you the testing results from their TAC3S plate. In testing, a TAC3S withstood 100+rnds of m855, with no penetration. Or ask VelSys about how many rounds their plates have stopped in sequential testing. (spoilers: it's a lot) How many rounds are you really worried about stopping here? If you have a plate that catches a round-give thanks to God, and then retire the old plate and replace it.
4) Armor sucks to wear. Even if you ARE in shape, it still sucks to wear. If you can mitigate some of that suck by going with a lighter material, I'm all for it.
5) Spall/Splash-That plate you are wearing is either curved IN towards you, or at worst, a flat plate. Have you seen any testing that shows where the spall and splash winds up? I haven't. I'm not super eager to be a test-dummy to find out either. And those fancy wondercoatings you see? Pretty much pickup truck bedliner. Not bad stuff, don't misunderstand me, but I've not seen enough conclusive testing to convince me of it's merits.
There's zero point arguing with him- seriously. Refer to the rest of this thread. He obviously knows more than those of us that wear armor for a living...
If you are using this armor in a regulated shoothouse/CQB training environment, you will have a better knowledge of what threats you may be facing. Most such facilities will prohibit the use of M855 ammo, as well as other penetrator rounds.
In light of this, if this is purely for training purposes-I'd advise you to look into some of the newer polymer plate systems. These will stop common 5.56mm training rounds (55gr, etc), and be quite light and thin. They also will not have the requirements for X-Ray exam, nor the concerns with going hands on with them.
Finally-before you get sold on 10x12 sizing, I would fully advise you to make sure that plate fits YOUR body type, as well as your intended carrier. SAPI sizing is far more supported in the market at large.
Also, it is worth noting these weights.
Steel with heavy spall coating ~ 9.5lb
Dirt cheap level IV ceramic ~ 8.6 lb
Ultra light level IV ceramic ~ 5.5 lb
The whole "2-4 oz" thing is a gross over simplification of steel vs. ceramic. Nearly 9 lb of difference equates to a lot more ammo, water, food or speed depending on your needs.
And unless the multiple hit deal is for re-usability in an extended SHTF you might be over thinking it it. After catching 4 or 5 rounds in a plate the chances are good you are out of the fight for awhile from the blunt trauma alone.
All that said my first plates are going to be steel because I'm not concerned about xm193 and close range from a longer barrel and prefer the "don't worry about how you treat them" side. As time and budget allows the steel plates are destined for a backup/loaner/abusive training set while I save up some very nice light ceramics.
The multiple shot obsession is nonsense. If you're taking more than a few torso/plate hits in your entire lifetime, then you've got bigger problems than armor selection.
And if you do manage to take a few plate strikes somehow, you replace the plate.
A62Rambler
09-25-14, 10:26
Level 3 plates are rated for 6 hits. If you face a likelihood of more than 6 hits in a class... find a different class! The people who wear armor or have worn armor tend to like multicurve ceramic plates. That's a clue! One suggested that if training is your only requirement you can even go with polymer plates. Note that they too are lightweight. That's another clue! I strongly suggest you consider the background of those who have responded. Grizzly16, Kaltesherz, Adam, and markm have been around M4C a long time and I respect their advice. I've found over the years that markm is certainly worth taking advice from. You make your own choice and good luck with the class and armor.
I might need the XL size given that I'm 6'4" with a slightly longer torso to leg anthropometry. I would think in a training class M193 would be fairly common but not likely out of a 20" gun since those don't fit the CQB or Carbine class mold. Fortunately, I can make the assumption that M855 & M193 will be the greatest threat since its a class setting and hopefully two shots at most!! I am tempted to go in the direction of lighter so I can focus on the training and not be distracted by the gear I am wearing for safety purposes.
Moreover, it would be nice to put on quickly in the event of a home invasion. In that scenario the most lilely threat would be from a pistol caliber.
I'm certainly no plate guru. I've got a pair of single curve, Steel plates. And they'r comfortable enough (shape-wise). They'r just over 6 lbs each and feel pretty heavy when worn for any length of time.
I need to get a shooters cut pair since my new carrier doesn't hold a full cut. I'm likely going with some Ceramics multicurves from Bulletproofme.
kaltesherz
09-25-14, 11:23
While the OP stated these are for a class, I'd get plates that could be used outside the class- like SHTF or even regular Carbine classes (trust me, once you've seen some new shooters on hot ranges you'll wish you were wearing armor) so Polyethelene plates may not be the way to go, as they're not M855 rated.
Ceramic plates generally take many more hits than they're rated, if you watch those youtube videos they posted they all took many more than expected. Retired SEAL Mike Day just did an interview discussing how his plate was rated for one round and ended up stopping 11 at CQB range... of course he was shot a shit ton of other times in the arms, legs, and abdomen. And he still killed all 4 bad guys in the room.
I'm 6'4" and wear Large ESAPI's and have gotten away with Mediums in the past. I find them very comfortable when training and the heat more of an issue than the weight - man armor gets freakin' hot...
I can make a few recommendations for ceramic armor that will stop common CONUS (M193, M855, and Mild Steel Core 7.62x39) threats, but before I do, would you care to share your price ceiling?
With the new spall coating, it's a non-factor. Proven hundreds of times via YouTube. So if it's too heavy (Again, 2-4 oz. You might want to leave off that "1" 30rd mag.). It's curved, with shooters cuts, single or dual spall coating, and ceramic has a recommended shelf life of 10 years. That's why most of them should, or do have manufacture dates. Constant moisture weakens the material over time.
http://youtu.be/8gyfx-pJhO4
http://youtu.be/mt5hJORcbkQ
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Sorry if I don't trust the bubba who welds targets to get the spall coating correct on his non-certified product that he has no experience manufacturers over the past 20+ years.
There is a reason why people usually look for a proven track record in their particular industry when purchasing potentially life saving equipment.
I can make a few recommendations for ceramic armor that will stop common CONUS (M193, M855, and Mild Steel Core 7.62x39) threats, but before I do, would you care to share your price ceiling?
$500 is the upper limit per plate.
$500 is the upper limit per plate.
For that money you can get III, III+, or IV plates, weighing from 3lbs to 8lbs each.
SeriousStudent
09-26-14, 19:11
Jakedasnake - stop posting in this thread.
This is the second time a mod/staff member has had to tell you to stop posting in a thread. There will not be a third time.
SeriousStudent
09-26-14, 19:12
And for the other posters - this thread is relevant to my interests. I'm probably going to buy some plates in the spring as well. I appreciate the accurate info posted.
It may be worth looking at armour-wear.com if we can get some independent info. Their youtube testing looks impressive. USA made, level 4 in mutli or single curve for 260-300 for front and back plates. They aren't light but if the NIJ cert they offer is legit that is by far the best price on level 4 plates I've seen. And the level 3+ plates look pretty impressive and light even if they are thicker than my head after a few beers.
Armour Wear definitely looks promising, but I'm waiting a little longer for some additional (independent) reviews. I'd be really interested in having some recommendations from Adam_s based on a few different price tiers (for IIIa/+ that'll stop the common stuff), if he'd be so kind to oblige. I'm personally looking at ~$500 for a set, which is why Armour Wear is looking promising to me.
Armour Wear definitely looks promising, but I'm waiting a little longer for some additional (independent) reviews. I'd be really interested in having some recommendations from Adam_s based on a few different price tiers (for IIIa/+ that'll stop the common stuff), if he'd be so kind to oblige. I'm personally looking at ~$500 for a set, which is why Armour Wear is looking promising to me.
At 500 a set some of the light weight plates from bullet proof me are in the game as well: http://bulletproofme.com/RP-Level-4-Stand-Alone.html
Armour Wear looked promising to me as well, then I asked them few questions. They responded to all questions except my request for NIJ reports. So I emailed them again and I have not heard back. I passed on them and just bought some plates from HighCom Security level 4 plates which were cheaper and lighter. I used code:armor ended up paying $253 delivered.
I read everything I could on plates for the last month and I think I made a good decision.
David W.
kaltesherz
09-27-14, 11:10
Don't forget to get triple curved- single curve are uncomfortable rather quickly. Otherwise a lot of good info on here, keep it coming guys...
$500 is the upper limit per plate.
$500/plate is a fantastic budget.
There are several plates out there that will accomplish what you are wanting, but introduce various compromises into the equation. Some will be light, but clock in at 1.2" thick. Others will be thinner, but be a lot heavier. The general path to selecting armor I advise is this: Identify your common threats. Determine maximum price. Start deciding inside of the price/threat range you have identified what compromises you want to make-cost, weight, thickness. You may want to save money, and go with a thicker/heavier plate, while someone else may decide thin is in, and spend the coin to run that.
Personally-I'd rather spend more, and have something thinner and lighter.
Final note: I'm going to stick with STAND ALONE plates. This is because I'm assuming you are not LEO, and do not have an already existing soft armor package. If someone who is LEO, or is already running soft armor would like my recommendations in that instance, please drop me a line.
I have two recommendations under $500/plate range-one that is a thin/light/spendy, while the other is thick/light/less money.
Perhaps one of my favorite plates in this range would be the new Midwest Armor FM STX Stand-Alone. It's topping out at the high end of your budget, but you get a plate that is only 0.55" thick, and will stop M855, M193, and 7.62x39 MSC. A Medium sized one of these is only 5lbs as well, which is fantastic.
Appalachian Training sells these.
http://store.appalachiantraining.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MW-STX-MED
Mike, the owner, is VERY good people. He's taken great care of me in the past, and I'd be willing to bet he'd do the same for you. I'd recommend dropping him a line if you want these plates.
Armour Wear's PE Lvl 3+ plate is another very good option, and a ton cheaper. SME's who I trust have seen the independent testing sheets on these, and confirmed to me they are legit. Roll that with the fact they are 4lbs, and $200/plate for the 10x12 multicurve...you're pretty well set to rock and roll there. My issue is that they are 10x12 sized, and not SAPI sized but that becomes a rant for a whole different day.
http://armour-wear.com/hard-plates/17-hard-panel-10-x-12-pe-lvl-3plus.html#/hardpaneltype-level_3_mc_front
Armour Wear looked promising to me as well, then I asked them few questions. They responded to all questions except my request for NIJ reports. So I emailed them again and I have not heard back. I passed on them and just bought some plates from HighCom Security level 4 plates which were cheaper and lighter. I used code:armor ended up paying $253 delivered.
I read everything I could on plates for the last month and I think I made a good decision.
David W.
Probably because they arent NIJ certified. I checked the NIJ website about two weeks ago. And dont forget, "III+" is NOT a NIJ certification level.
Thatbeing said, for the price, I really want them to be legit as well.
I hope so as well, the ration of weight vs. price is nice.
Probably because they arent NIJ certified. I checked the NIJ website about two weeks ago. And dont forget, "III+" is NOT a NIJ certification level.
Thatbeing said, for the price, I really want them to be legit as well.
Or you can take the level 3+ to mean they are certified at level 3 and the manufacturer is claiming (and showing in video) them taking level III abuse and well beyond.
Don't forget to get triple curved- single curve are uncomfortable rather quickly. Otherwise a lot of good info on here, keep it coming guys...
Single curve hasn't bothered me at all. I wish I could say I've tried triples for reference, but I have not done so yet.
Or you can take the level 3+ to mean they are certified at level 3 and the manufacturer is claiming (and showing in video) them taking level III abuse and well beyond.
Yeah you could, but Armour Wear doesn't come up as certified AT ALL on the NIJ website. So in house testing is one thing, but they're not certified as III, IIIa or IV.
OP, with a 550 per plate budget look at some velocity systems level IV stand alones. You can get them in SAPI or shooter cut. I would not even bother with steel due to the many reasons that are posted above. Quality ceramic plates will beat ar500 steel overall, bottom line. If anyone tells you different then they do not know what they are talking about. Also get a quality carrier (I Like First Spear) to hold your new 350 buck plates.
Appalachian
09-28-14, 15:51
Single curve hasn't bothered me at all. I wish I could say I've tried triples for reference, but I have not done so yet.
Single curves work just fine, but the fit / ride is a more comfortable with the triple. Either the 10x12 triple curve or a standard SAPI cut (for all practical purposes is a multi curve plate).
Appalachian
09-28-14, 16:27
I've been reading through old post about what would be the best solution for a civilian who wanted to protect themself in shoot house classes. There are several threads with detailed info but generally are a few years old. So I'm more interested in identify time tested and gold standard solutions. What is the current recommendation(s) for an individual that prefers a durable, budget friendly solution that will protect from 5.56 M193 & M855, 7.62 M80, and AK rounds at CQB distances. Plate size preference is 10"x12".
Order of importance:protection (most likely threat) should be first in the list
Durability. this is overstated and misunderstood in our community. Ceramics are more durable than they are portrayed in some circles. Reasonable care and storage when not in use will allow your plates to provide literally a lifetime of service. The "end of the world" fantasies we read about....being in running gun battles and sustaining multiple plate hits are just that (from my perspective).
Spall protection. another term that has been over used with the increased popularity of by steel as armor. Spall is when primary armor such as the inside of an armored vehicle is fractured and turns into smaller projectiles that can penetrate. Not an issue with UHMWPE (poly) or ceramic plates. Actual performance against the round would be of greater concern as a selection criteria
Cost. armor is a balancing act. Start with your realistic requirement (most likely, not ALL threats) and then balance that protection with weight/thickness, cost, and durability. Weight/thickness and cost are always at odds with one another. .
Weight see above
For your shoothouse requirement a ceramic plate that meets the threats you outlined would be prescribed. Plenty of proven options out there that are in the 6-ish lb range that meet your requirement. An 8lb plate gets old in a hurry. But an 8lb plate that a shooter wears is still better than the 4lb plate that he wont buy due to cost. Hope this helps.
See embedded above
Armour Wear looked promising to me as well, then I asked them few questions. They responded to all questions except my request for NIJ reports. So I emailed them again and I have not heard back. I passed on them and just bought some plates from HighCom Security level 4 plates which were cheaper and lighter. I used code:armor ended up paying $253 delivered.
I read everything I could on plates for the last month and I think I made a good decision.
David W.
I used the contact form on their webpage about 8 am today. Just got an email with the level 4 certification that it stopped 1 round of 30-06 ap as expected. The date for the test was 01/06/2014. Maybe you caught them at a busy time?
Single curves work just fine, but the fit / ride is a more comfortable with the triple. Either the 10x12 triple curve or a standard SAPI cut (for all practical purposes is a multi curve plate).
I can't wait to try some triple curves.
SAPIs are considered multi-curve?
OP, with a 550 per plate budget look at some velocity systems level IV stand alones. You can get them in SAPI or shooter cut. I would not even bother with steel due to the many reasons that are posted above. Quality ceramic plates will beat ar500 steel overall, bottom line. If anyone tells you different then they do not know what they are talking about. Also get a quality carrier (I Like First Spear) to hold your new 350 buck plates.
Why should he want a Level IV plate instead of a 3+?
SAPIs are considered multi-curve?
Yes, as they taper from top to bottom in addition to side to side.
kaltesherz
09-30-14, 19:06
Why should he want a Level IV plate instead of a 3+?
Versatility- you never know what someone's going to shoot you with. M2 AP used to be fairly common, and at some point M855A1 will be seen stateside and therefor be "acquired" and on the streets.
Appalachian
09-30-14, 19:12
SAPIs are considered multi-curve?
You wont hear them referred to as such, but a true SAPI (unfortunately many will refer to ANY plate as a "SAPI" ...but that is a specific protection level and cut/ curve) is a multi curve design. A SAPI or a SAPI style cut plate is curved along the vertical axis. the top 1/3 or so is also "tilted" inward along the horizontal axis. The vertical plane is curved / bowed slightly inward at the bottom to accommodate the torso. A triple curve simply adds a more aggressive curve or flare on these bottom edges. A triple curve will almost always be a 10x12 plate.
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