View Full Version : 308 ?
Im wanting to buy a ar10. Im looking at the ruger sr762 amd I have read some good and bad things about it but my ? Is I can get it for around 1500 should I buy it and put the extra money in it making it what I want or would it be better for me to save some more money and buy a better gun out of the box. Thanks
Failure2Stop
09-26-14, 21:19
I'd go with the S&W before the Ruger.
S&W or the DPMS GII, unless you want to save twice that for a LaRue, and wait a year or so...
Renegade04
09-26-14, 23:17
I'd go with the S&W before the Ruger.
I would have to agree. The S&W M&P-10 is a great buy and a good .308 to boot.
And none of you even mention the difference of gas impingement vs. piston?
That matters to some, all other things being equal.
I waited to get an "AR-10" until there was a reasonably priced piston gun.
USMA84DAB
I just hate to buy a 3000 dollar gun then start changing stuff on it when I could biy a 15 to 18 hundred dollars gun and put a 1000 in it had have a nice rifle
And none of you even mention the difference of gas impingement vs. piston?
That matters to some, all other things being equal.
I waited to get an "AR-10" until there was a reasonably priced piston gun.
USMA84DAB
First- There is little practical difference in performance whether your AR has it's piston in the carrier or the gas block
Second- No one is under any obligation to mention what little those insignificant differences mean to the shooter in the field
Third- Only Armalite makes an AR-10
What do you mean by changing things. The only things that are changeable are things like stocks and triggers. Also be careful not to accidentally grab the gas block while your shooting.
morpheus6d9
09-27-14, 09:39
What about building one from scratch? With and upper and lower from PSA ?
I'm curious to see a YouTube review of the PSA AR10 offerings. Specifically the accuracy of their upper assemblies.
What about building one from scratch? With and upper and lower from PSA ?
This is the route I'm currently taking, only my receivers are DPMS.
Most of my top-end will be JP (bolt/carrier/barrel/handguards).
Without sights I'm going to have about $2300 in it. Had I gone w/ some of the alternatives over JP and cut out some of the frills (SSA-E, BAD safeties, BCM CH, adj gas, etc) I could have built it for ~$1700.
.308 just takes a little more research/planning over a .223 AR to make sure all the parts are compatable.
-rvb
Cumminspowa
09-29-14, 10:44
The other difference to mention between the m&p-10 and ruger is that the ruger uses a hammer forged barrel that is chrome lined and fluted under the hand guards. The m&p to my knowledge doesn't have those features.
shooterfpga
09-29-14, 12:12
Have you thought about the new psa 308 or the dpms g2?
I just got a PSA complete lower. Seems to be pretty nice. I was a little unhappy to find out after the fact that the geissele ssa-e will not work in my lower because I was planning on throwing one in but they say that they will machine the hammer (approved by geissele) for free to make it work. Appearently there working on fixing the issue also. Other then that it just seems like an enlarged mill spec type lower, not a bad buy for the price. I was also amazed by the shipping. From order to my FFL was only like 4 days. That is unheard of with PSA lol. I am not sure if I will buy one of their uppers or just build one off of their receivers. I am kind of waiting to see what all combinations they will offer. Right now I have only seen 16" and 18" barrels and MI G2SS rails and non free floated uppers.
Personally I never considered the ruger. I did consider the M&P10, but while it was a good price, I new I would want to change a bunch of things on it and by the time I factored that in, it would not be much different then just building the one I wanted from scratch.
I'm curious to see a YouTube review of the PSA AR10 offerings. Specifically the accuracy of their upper assemblies.
I'm curious about this as well. Interested in buying one but will let someone else to the testing first.
I was also amazed by the shipping. From order to my FFL was only like 4 days. That is unheard of with PSA lol. I am not sure if I will buy one of their uppers or just build one off of their receivers. I am kind of waiting to see what all combinations they will offer. Right now I have only seen 16" and 18" barrels and MI G2SS rails and non free floated uppers.
It seems like PSA has finally fixed their awful shipping issues. I've ordered a couple things from them in the last week, and they all shipped out within a day of the order! That is definitely a huge improvement from their 2-3 week ship time.
As for their PA-10, I decided to pick up one of their complete PA-10 lowers, and complete uppers. I got the 16" SS upper with MI SS rail. The upper already arrived and I am picking up the lower from my FFL today. I'll keep you posted on my initial impressions, as well as how it shoots when I get it out. They also had Burris PEPR QD scope mounts on sale for $59 with an additional $20 rebate, so I couldn't pass one up for $39. Not sure what glass i'm going to put on it yet, as this will be my first 308 AR. Thinking maybe a 2.5-10...
Any suggestions?
As for their PA-10, I decided to pick up one of their complete PA-10 lowers, and complete uppers. I got the 16" SS upper with MI SS rail. The upper already arrived and I am picking up the lower from my FFL today. I'll keep you posted on my initial impressions, as well as how it shoots when I get it out.
I would be grateful, and I'm sure others would be as well. I'm really looking to see some pics of paper punching, best groups, etc.
I would be grateful, and I'm sure others would be as well. I'm really looking to see some pics of paper punching, best groups, etc.
Sure thing. I'm a bolt gun guy, at least for long range, so this will be my first experiences with a "longer range" caliber in a gas gun. I've heard it takes some practice with 308 gas guns to get the accuracy down, since they are a different animal than a precision bolt gun, but i'll do my best to see what the PA-10 barrel can do
MajorLonghorn
09-29-14, 17:56
I'd save up a little more and get something nicer. I have a LMT MWS and while it's superbly built, it's also super heavy and pricey to boot. I'd consider a POF 308, which is cheaper and lighter than the LMT, or a Larue PredatAR 7.62, which is a comparable in price to the LMT, but much lighter. All three are accurate and well-built.
shooterfpga
09-29-14, 18:02
Sure thing. I'm a bolt gun guy, at least for long range, so this will be my first experiences with a "longer range" caliber in a gas gun. I've heard it takes some practice with 308 gas guns to get the accuracy down, since they are a different animal than a precision bolt gun, but i'll do my best to see what the PA-10 barrel can do
It really doesnt take much. Atleast i didnt think so. They shoot pretty soft and are very comfortable compared to a bolt action which i also have unless you have a chassis system or maybe a monte carlo type stock. Really though its all personal preference. Ive since gave up my large caliber semi autos and almost completely switched to bolt action mag fed systems.
I'd save up a little more and get something nicer. I have a LMT MWS and while it's superbly built, it's also super heavy and pricey to boot. I'd consider a POF 308, which is cheaper and lighter than the LMT, or a Larue PredatAR 7.62, which is a comparable in price to the LMT, but much lighter. All three are accurate and well-built.
Ive had the lmt mwse and it was dang accurate however it wasnt really anything special unless you barrel swap often.
JBecker 72
09-29-14, 18:12
I just want to know when BCM is gonna step up to the .308 game. I'll probably end up shelling out the $3k for an LMT MWS 16" one of these days.
You don't state how you will use it, which leaves a lot to the imagination and very little to logic.
My advice is usually to buy higher end gear that will work correctly and not require a bunch of mods and will work reliably out of the box. My preference is HK, but KAC would be a solid choice as well. Along with several others that are pretty well known names. I don't have experience with the others so I will only speak to what I know.
I own several rifles in that caliber, but this one is, by a wide margin, my favorite.
Shoots sub MOA consistently with a variety of ammo, even sub 1/2 MOA when I am on MY game.
But none of that matters if you're planning on throwing it in a truck. This would not be my recommendation for a truck gun.
ETA: I have changed nothing on this rifle other than adding what I now know is a mediocre optic, which you will do with any of those mentioned already.
http://api.zenfolio.com/cdn/pub/lfqo0zoxzuzt/0/null/mh/zn7n-cjzfvczoisqa-g-/s5/v118/p57247279-5.jpg?sn=2YN&tk=EpvWDNrvcnLqS9d5Mjg_lHO8BwPLWGnYrPiDUZL5Vk8=
JBecker 72
09-29-14, 18:20
The HK interests me as well. Can you get SR25 mags in there or are you stuck with HK?
HK Magazines only. They cost about the same as my SCAR17 mags........
JBecker 72
09-29-14, 18:32
HK Magazines only. They cost about the same as my SCAR17 mags........
That is unfortunate.
I really don't understand why someone doesn't just make a DPMS pattern .308 that is on par with a Colt or BCM M4 carbine. I mean how hard can it be? To me it seems you have rifles that either border on the low end of the scale, then you get into the high end stuff with proprietary parts, monolithic uppers, quick change barrels and ultra precision. Starting price of $3k and up.
Why doesn't someone make a quality 16" carbine gas rifle that is 1/10 twist, chrome lined, has a standard front sight post and plastic hand guards and takes PMags? I can then take that base platform and modify it how I want it. Maybe it does and I'm missing it, but it seems like that is the gaping hole left in the .308 AR world. I want a 6920 in .308.
I just put together a psa from a complete upper and lower. I've only had a chance to put 50 rounds through it but its functioned great. I got the 16" with rifle gas. I put a CMC 3.5# trigger in it and it works fine. It weighs 11 pounds with a full pmag and a 1-4 scope. The psa upper may not work on your dpms, cmmg, etc. lowers with some file to the top of the receiver and the buffer tube. The charging handle hits and the upper wont seat all the way on the lower.
This would be a gun id go coyote hunting with and just playing around with long range.
MorphCross
09-29-14, 20:05
That is unfortunate.
I really don't understand why someone doesn't just make a DPMS pattern .308 that is on par with a Colt or BCM M4 carbine. I mean how hard can it be? To me it seems you have rifles that either border on the low end of the scale, then you get into the high end stuff with proprietary parts, monolithic uppers, quick change barrels and ultra precision. Starting price of $3k and up.
Why doesn't someone make a quality 16" carbine gas rifle that is 1/10 twist, chrome lined, has a standard front sight post and plastic hand guards and takes PMags? I can then take that base platform and modify it how I want it. Maybe it does and I'm missing it, but it seems like that is the gaping hole left in the .308 AR world. I want a 6920 in .308.
That's just how the .308 Win/7.62 rifles in AR style work out. No one wants standardization because that means that any one can take a part from one and put it in another. These companies want to be the sole source of components so they can control the quality of each component chosen. Your best bet it to look for the rifles that have high round count reports when firing from the new generation of PMAGS, or you go for the SCAR 17 with it's stock factory mags and just forget about the AR308 business altogether. The best and most vetted of these platforms will run you the same amount to nearly double the SCAR and buying the magazines should be done in large lots rather than 1-2 at a time.
JBecker 72
09-29-14, 20:17
That's just how the .308 Win/7.62 rifles in AR style work out. No one wants standardization because that means that any one can take a part from one and put it in another. These companies want to be the sole source of components so they can control the quality of each component chosen. Your best bet it to look for the rifles that have high round count reports when firing from the new generation of PMAGS, or you go for the SCAR 17 with it's stock factory mags and just forget about the AR308 business altogether. The best and most vetted of these platforms will run you the same amount to nearly double the SCAR and buying the magazines should be done in large lots rather than 1-2 at a time.
That's all good and all, but why doesn't someone just make a quality basic rifle? All I would do from there is fit it with a quality free float 12.5" hand guard and call it a day. For optics I'd probably run a PRO with a 3x magnifier. And it would be my hunting rifle.
I don't need a piston gun, I don't need quick barrel changes, and I don't need to hit a 6" circle at 800 yards. I do want quality however. I feel like this isn't a ridiculous request for a rifle either.
I think the Armalite AR-10A is pretty much what you are looking for.
JBecker 72
09-29-14, 20:48
I think the Armalite AR-10A is pretty much what you are looking for.
I won't buy shit from Armalite, or DPMS, or Ruger, or S&W, or Sig, etc.
The closest thing to what I want is the LMT.
MajorLonghorn
09-29-14, 20:49
Then you should get it.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
JBecker 72
09-29-14, 21:00
Then you should get it.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
Like I said, I'm sure I'll pony up the money to get one in the near future unless something else comes out that better fits what I want in a .308 rifle. I'd also like to have a Knights Armament SR25 E2, but I'm sure I don't want to spend that much.
Im debating on just buying a bolt action and the buying me another Daniel defense ar and calling it a day. There's to many to choose from
shooterfpga
09-29-14, 21:17
Im debating on just buying a bolt action and the buying me another Daniel defense ar and calling it a day. There's to many to choose from
If youre going to buy a bolt gun you might as well buy one chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. Youll never want another 308.
10mmSpringfield
09-29-14, 22:31
I bought a CMMG Mk3 18" for about 1400 bucks shipped--you can still get them for that from PSA and other vendors.
I've had it for a bit over a year and it's about to make its second elk hunt--never had a problem with it.
Recoil is pretty stout.
I just want to know when BCM is gonna step up to the .308 game. I'll probably end up shelling out the $3k for an LMT MWS 16" one of these days.
I would look around a little it before spending $3000 on a LMT.
They can be had for significantly less than that.
PatrioticDisorder
09-30-14, 06:29
HK Magazines only. They cost about the same as my SCAR17 mags........
Where are you finding MR762 magazines for $34? Last I checked they were $90.
Cumminspowa
09-30-14, 07:44
It seems to me that there are several people making DPMS pattern recievers, so buying one rifle and then having multiple uppers shouldn't be a big deal. But what about buying receivers for a Ruger pattern lower? Does anyone make and sell them? I think that's another factor in deciding on a 308 rifle to purchase.
JBecker 72
09-30-14, 07:50
I would look around a little it before spending $3000 on a LMT.
They can be had for significantly less than that.
Best I've found is about $2600 locally on the full railed version.
steyrman13
09-30-14, 07:57
Check on the hide. They go for between 2000-2500
Best I've found is about $2600 locally on the full railed version.
Gunbroker $2400 shipped. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=444401733
I have one I bought last year and it has 20 rds though it. I recently acquired a KAC ECC so I'm trying to decide if I should keep the LMT or not.....
JBecker 72
09-30-14, 08:35
That's better than I thought then. I'm probably just gonna go that route.
10mmSpringfield
09-30-14, 09:43
Is the DPMS pattern becoming the "standard" since the DPMS and CMMG 308s are much cheaper?
I still want to get a higher end 308, like the new Rainier, but I can't justify the cost of a rifle that gets abused on hunting trips and the barrel on my CMMG is fine shooting 6" steel gongs at 400+ yards.
The furthest I've shot an elk was 175 yards when they wander out of the thick forest.
I probably have shot it more than any other semi rifle I own because I like long distance target, and it's been fine with 3500-4000 rounds down the pipe.
I put my PA-10 together last night, and so far the fit and finish seem good. I forgot to get a picture of the BCG but it was properly staked, as well as the castle nut. I haven't weighed it yet, but it was definitely lighter weight than I was expecting. Once my scope mount arrives and I get a scope on it, I will sight it in and see what kind of accuracy I can get out of it. I did take some pics of the rifle, and for under $1,000, it seems like it could be another good option if it shoots well. Sorry for the crappy phone pics. I'll try get better ones later tonight 2883028829
I put my PA-10 together last night, and so far the fit and finish seem good. I forgot to get a picture of the BCG but it was properly staked, as well as the castle nut. I haven't weighed it yet, but it was definitely lighter weight than I was expecting. Once my scope mount arrives and I get a scope on it, I will sight it in and see what kind of accuracy I can get out of it. I did take some pics of the rifle, and for under $1,000, it seems like it could be another good option if it shoots well. Sorry for the crappy phone pics. I'll try get better ones later tonight 2883028829
Let us know how she shoots. I just picked up one of their complete lowers. I was a little disappointed to find out that I cannot use the SSA-E in it without sending it in. I might just throw an SSA in it, that is what I have in all my other rifles anyway. I have been debating picking up one of their complete uppers or building the top half myself.
Is the DPMS pattern becoming the "standard" since the DPMS and CMMG 308s are much cheaper?
Partially - if Noveske, BCM, DanielDefense, or LMT (outside of the LM8MWS) start making a basic LR308 at the right price point, then we'll have a standard finally. As it stands right now, DPMS themselves are trying to make their G-II setup the de-facto standard (takes normal handguards, but I'm unsure what barrels will fit), and if somebody like the first three of those four mentioned adopt a different standard, it'll be interesting to see.
The boutique options are already there (high priced, high end awesome - KAC's APC looks flat out world-beating but is beyond the price range of most, the PredatOBR is a gorgeous, but conceptually not fulfilled system in 7.62, and the LM8MWS is really the best thing in it's price bracket but a tad porky unless the slick rail is there), so it would seem that the PMag LR / SR-25 is the most desirable magazine choice (no surprise there), which just leaves the barrel extension and upper receiver rail height as the biggest question marks.
That said, if Noveske get back into that market with GenIII type LR308 lowers, and DPMS cut versions of their already impressive .308 barrels, then they have a winner. BCM Rolling out pretty much anything with a KM-LR308-R handguard and a quality barrel/BCG/LPK setup is a winner; DanielDefense already have their 308Lite Rail and ability to make CHF barrels, so they could be first to the market and really own it as well.
Let us know how she shoots. I just picked up one of their complete lowers. I was a little disappointed to find out that I cannot use the SSA-E in it without sending it in. I might just throw an SSA in it, that is what I have in all my other rifles anyway. I have been debating picking up one of their complete uppers or building the top half myself.
Their complete uppers with SS barrel, MI rail, and BCG and CH for $600 seem to be a great deal. The quality seems on par with their Premium line, and if their stainless steel barrels are accurate, they will have a winner. I also really like the SSA-E triggers that I have in my 5.56 guns, but I'm tempted to go with the SD-E for this build so I don't have to deal with the SSA-E modifications. That being said, the trigger in the PA-10 felt noticeably better than the normal gritty USGI triggers that come in a lot of the PSA 5.56 guns. I wouldn't keep the stock trigger, but it felt better than I expected.
My psa with 1-4 scope and full 20 rd pmag weighs right at 11 pounds.
SomeOtherGuy
10-02-14, 17:37
Is the DPMS pattern becoming the "standard" since the DPMS and CMMG 308s are much cheaper?
Pretty much what the Llama said... my take is that no .308 platform is a standard yet, but the DPMS pattern is the most common by far. I would not call it a standard because none of the higher-end stuff is exactly on the same pattern as DPMS, and a lot of companies seem to come out with .308 rifles that are similar, but not identical in all ways or interchangeable with DPMS - the Ruger and S&W in particular. And that DPMS now has a gen2 design that looks greatly superior to their gen1 design.
I got an update from PSA on the issue with their PA-10 lower and trigger compatibility. I asked if are working on a long term fix like coming out with a new lower that will not require any machining on aftermarket triggers, and this was their response:
"We are working to correct this issue, and a new PA-10 lower receiver is in the works.
Thank you,
Customer Service
Palmetto State Armory
(803) 724-6950
Info@palmettostatearmory.com"
So that is good news. Looks like there will be a completely new lower that fixes the issue.
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