Tactical Considerations

[Beagle]

Ok, heres the deal, now I want some opinions on Barrel length. Ive been to combat with my standard Gov. M4, it was sufficiant for accuracy and CQ, Obviously i want something with a little more power, but with the ability to reach out and touch someone. Im thinking 16 or 18", what do you all think. I want an overall good combat rifle, but the accuracy for consistent shots out to 800. (for my own reasons, 1000 is kind of excessive, if we want to talk tactics we can open a new thread) any personal opinions? Experience? Im glad to find a forum with such diverse knowledge. Thanks in advance

[One Shot]

I'd go with a scoped M1A with 7.62 NATO match ammo. Get the scope zeroed to your ammo and eyesight and you should be able to hit at 800 yards with annoying regularity. Especially if the scope is like a 10 X 40 power model.

[Failure2Stop]

long range (past 500 yards) is not really the domain of 5.56. If you want to shoot long-range, why not look into dedicated long-range/benchrest cartridges such as the 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Creedmoor?

At least, that's what I would do.

[Jay Cunningham]

You might want to try one of the .308 AR platform rifles by DPMS.

[Byte]

If you're looking for an all around rifle I'd say 16"-18" is perfect. I'd also stick to .308 in a standard field rifle unless/until the 6.5 Grendel becomes the world standard with a high degree of availability. This is unlikely to happen...

If you're shooting out past 600yds the vast majority of your time then you're looking for a specialized DMR type rifle and I'd definately put together something based on the 6.5G.

In the end, it's a personal decision with so many factors to consider that no amount of banter in the forums can solve adequately. My person field rifle is a M1a SOCOMII. A very versatile platform in a standard caliber. Thats my .02 anyway.

Byte

[One Shot]

Do some serious research on the 6.5 Grendel. That round has some amazing accuracy, long range and good penetration for dropping bad guys or feral game.

[Spade]

I guess I'm beating the dead horse here. Yeah I agree 5.56 is not inteded for that sort of range. Sure you can engage that far if you have too but there are other rounds far more suited for that distance. I also think that the 7.62 would be the best way to go based solely on availablity of the round.

[CarlosDJackal]

I agrer with the others, if you want accuracy and lethality out to 800-meters, the 5.5.6 round isn't the best choice. From what I understand, even with the 77-grain OTM (ie: Mk262) the maximum effective range is 600-meters out of an 18-inch barrel.

That being said, I have a 1/9-twist Varminter that has a 24-inch barrel that has proven to be accurate out to 926-yards using 75-grain BH ammo. FWIW.

[hahagobangbang]

No one has mentioned it but I believe the 7.62 FAL deserves mention here. DSA will build you a nice 18" barreled battle rifle. Magazines are cheap and accessories ( railed hand guards) are coming out on the market. I also own an older SOCOM 16 which is a ball to shoot also. I feel quite comfortable with a 20 round magazine of 7.62 rounds, for either rifle, in heavy bear country (brownies & blackies). I know Fulton Armory can build you an 18" barreled M1A that will shoot the no-seeums off the nose of a Moose at 800 yards. Go to the range, join a club in your area and let folks know what you are looking for. I think you will find people will beg you to shoot their rifle, go to a couple of NRA High Power shoots in your area, there should be some M1A's out there.

Good luck and thanks Beagle, for getting shot at, for making things right and giving people hope... you know what I mean, thanks.

[rat31465]

Looks as if your primary question was simply what barrell length should you go with.
I don't believe that the 18" Bbl would be all that detrimental to manuevability for CQ useage, especially since it reads like your really wishing for better long range performance. 2" of Bbl length isn't going to be a real factor either in velocity or accuracy....but if I was looking to build a rifle based upon your specs in your post. I'd go with 18"....scoped appropriatley and choose my ammo carefully.

[Cagemonkey]

I'd get an 6.5mm Grendel with an 18" barrel. 7.62 is great, but to get a good rifle your going into the $1500 plus range without optics. The FAL or DPMS LR 308 are accurate and affordable. AR 10's are finicky and the only way to go is the Noveske. M1A's are nice, but if you want accuracy, the meter starts rolling. A Fulton Armory M1A is going to set you back $1800-1900 min. That will only get you a 2 MOA guaranty. To get 1 MOA or better with a M1A your getting into the $2500 plus range. A good bolt gun is nice, but thats more of a sniper rifle. Not to good up close. LaRue is coming out with a new AR type 7.62. Its going to be pricy though.

[Turnkey11]

Have GA Precision do you up a AR-10 in .260.

[The Zunk]

Probably the most important question would be external variables. You mentioned CQB but didn't advise external terrain. Your question eluded to potential 800 yard encounters etc. In unison I agree with the 7.62 variant, but only if you would be faced with consistant targets at that range. If you only need to extend to that range very infrequently then the 5.56 is sufficient. I say that because we were well on taget in the USMC at those distances. I live in the southeast and it is considered triple canopy in some areas, I personally will probably never see a shot of more than 200 - 300 yards and based on that have taken a likeing to the 5.45 because of ammo availability and accuracy. It is surpisingly accurate! Some will disagree, but alot of people coming back from the sand box have 800 yard mentailities and live in a 200 yard locale. Besides, I'm not humping 308 all over Gods green earth. I can carry twice as much and be lighter with capacity to 500 yds consistently. Just my point of view and opinion. Good Luck.

[gregshark]

Take a look at the DPMS AP4 .308, I have the 16" model with 4 rail and flip up BUIS. I use a 4-14x scope as primary optic. Availability of ammo(7.62 NATO), weight(much lighter than the SA SOCOM series or MIA) and ability to configure it how you want. You have the collapsible stock for tight spaces. All in the $1500 range, w/o optics. With the 16" you will give up about 100fps from the 18", you can run the ballistics in a calculator, not too big a deal. Happy hunting!

[high888]

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[gregshark]

Nice, here is mine with 6x illum. mil dot reticle. Don't have a photo of it with the 4-14x scope yet.

[armakraut]

The 20-LR pmags should make the DPMS/KAC rifles much more viable.

If I was getting a 16 inch 7.62 rifle, I'd just get some kind of AK in 7.62x39. As long as you get a lighter barrel contour and don't overload the rifle, a 20-inch .308 AR is going to weigh less than any other 7.62 rifle in a similar configuration, and mounting optics on it is really simple.

DPMS makes a rifle called the LR-308C, which is a bit like a 7.62 M16A4.

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5113

There are only two real downsides to the LR-308C, the lack of chrome lining in the barrel, and the use of a heavy profile under the handguards. Companies like ADCO can recontour a barrel down to a government or lightweight profile though.