View Full Version : Gun range bans...
30 cal slut
09-29-14, 18:01
Muslims.
Read more here.
http://clashdaily.com/2014/09/u-s-gun-range-bans-muslims-business-muslim-free-zone/
:blink:
Averageman
09-29-14, 18:47
Good.
I see no problem as my home, property have been Muslim free for years.
Winning on all counts.
If cake bakers can be forced to accommodate homosexuals a fair trade would be this lol
Good for him!!!!
As for a lawsuit.........read this and you will see that a lawsuit would be the best thing the Libtards could do for all of us...at lease those here.
http://downtrend.com/brian-carey/arkansas-gun-range-bans-muslims-my-business-is-a-muslim-free-zone/
HackerF15E
09-29-14, 19:25
Law suite much?
http://in-lawsuite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Feature-image-Floor-Plans-e1349326226741.png
Oh...you mean law suit.
Good for him!!!!
] Good for her!!
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
Leaveammoforme
09-29-14, 19:47
Nobody else sees this as a woman needing attention? Range is in Hot Springs. Read a couple other reports on this and I'm convinced she needs business or attention or both. She has spoken at some biker and republican events. Been awhile since she has had some publicity, until now.
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
That aside you dang if this was the other way around and a Muslim business was discriminating against whitey there would be absolutely and hell, they'd still likely get a commendation of some sort from the fed.
Nobody else sees this as a woman needing attention? Range is in Hot Springs. Read a couple other reports on this and I'm convinced she needs business or attention or both. She has spoken at some biker and republican events. Been awhile since she has had some publicity, until now.If I wasn't married, I'd give her some attention! All the toys you could want and a indoor range to play with them at. You bet your a$$;)
That aside you dang if this was the other way around and a Muslim business was discriminating against whitey there would be absolutely and hell, they'd still likely get a commendation of some sort from the fed.
Saw a story a while back where a Muslim barber refused to cut a woman's hair. She sued and won if I remember correctly... It is easy to cry foul and think that everything is stacked against us and Radical Islam gets to run loose. But that just isn't the case. Oh there is a lot of shit that is being glossed over that should not be. But being a Muslim isn't a free ride in the legal system, or anywhere else.
I can see where some could say discrimination from a business is unethical, and it is. But I also believe that a private business should have the right to refuse services, to anybody. The Gov has to much say so in private commerce, and needs to worry about handling its own business and keep its nose out of everyone else's. Just my opinion.
I can see where some could say discrimination from a business is unethical, and it is. But I also believe that a private business should have the right to refuse services, to anybody. The Gov has to much say so in private commerce, and needs to worry about handling its own business and keep its nose out of everyone else's. Just my opinion.
We tried that. It didn't work. There are many things government should not regulate or control. And a few that they should. Anti Discrimination laws are a good example of what they have done (almost) right
Muslims.
Read more here.
http://clashdaily.com/2014/09/u-s-gun-range-bans-muslims-business-muslim-free-zone/
:blink:
Really no different than banning anyone who subscribed to any other hateful ideology. If the story was about banning skinheads, members of the KKK or those involved with Christian Identity nobody would say a word.
As a private business owner she can refuse service to anyone she wants.
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
If a Muslim business owner wants to ban all non Muslims I'd be just fine. Plenty of other gun ranges, bakeries and book stores out there.
Nobody else sees this as a woman needing attention? Range is in Hot Springs. Read a couple other reports on this and I'm convinced she needs business or attention or both. She has spoken at some biker and republican events. Been awhile since she has had some publicity, until now.
Promotion 101.
It is unlikely many Muslims would cater to any business owned by a woman so this publicity will mostly be gain. Cheap internet advertising.
My business is a little slow, I may announce that I will no longer sell to Eskimos because they smell like fish.
Really no different than banning anyone who subscribed to any other hateful ideology. If the story was about banning skinheads, members of the KKK or those involved with Christian Identity nobody would say a word.
As a private business owner she can refuse service to anyone she wants.
Exactly.
Whiskey_Bravo
09-29-14, 21:16
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
They will get sued and lose,and I agree it's it probably not a good idea but I will reserve by /outrage to when Christians or Jehovah's Witness followers start sawing off heads on a regular basis.
SeriousStudent
09-29-14, 21:30
Promotion 101.
It is unlikely many Muslims would cater to any business owned by a woman so this publicity will mostly be gain. Cheap internet advertising.
......
This. She wanted free publicity, and she's getting it with every click on that URL.
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
That's different, because Christianity is a well-accepted religion.
I would like to see the first Muslim/Islamic customer try to sue her business. The owner clearly stated her view and defined the some of the violent aspects of the Koran.
If it really was that significant, then time will tell and she will go out of business. At least the owner is bold enough to state her beliefs and stake her business on it.
publicity stunt ?
stupid IMHO sure she has the right and should but at the same time if there is a threat this won't matter this could bring a threat onto them by some idiots and the innocent folks there will be the ones that pay with there lives ?
sure some will say he would be gunned down but not before he took out a few would be pretty easy behind the line and they don't care if they go down committing a act
better ways to handle this IMHO just have a big ol cross and say Jesus loves you when they come in see how they react or something or just promote good wholesome fun at the range with BBQ PORK DAY !!!! and we love bacon day !
its kinda like gays trying to shove there crap in our faces you don't fight stupidity with stupidity
I have to get out to some ranges here but there is enough open area ? where I used to live I would go to one range where I knew the owner was friends with the kids etc... patronize who you know and like and trust
this kinda owner I don't trust by her actions to get publicity but that is me maybe its I am older now and more careful about drawing attention
as one of my buddies always said never let em know you are coming just sneak up behind and let em have it walk way without a mark on ya is the best way to win a fight !
same way the gays sued the bakery and the bakery lost ?
sadly the system is not about your rights anymore its about the minorities getting there way and chipping away all your rights !!!
That's different, because Christianity is a well-accepted religion.
I would like to see the first Muslim/Islamic customer try to sue her business. The owner clearly stated her view and defined the some of the violent aspects of the Koran.
If it really was that significant, then time will tell and she will go out of business. At least the owner is bold enough to state her beliefs and stake her business on it.
same way the gays sued the bakery and the bakery lost ?
sadly the system is not about your rights anymore its about the minorities getting there way and chipping away all your rights !!!
What bakery? :p
Like stated, I'd like to see the first muslim/islamic customer sue the gun range and win. If that happens, then the store owner had it coming to her. I don't care either way, but I don't support Islam either. Do you?
Mauser KAR98K
09-30-14, 00:09
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
If that's the case, then the businesses and laws establishing gun-free zones should also be illegal as they are discriminating against people who want the freedom and right to protect themselves. Instead, they are told they can't come in with their legally permitted weapon, a constitutional right that has been upheld in SCOTUS, and are given hateful names such as gun nuts and ammohiles and such other crap.
Averageman
09-30-14, 00:26
If a Muslim business owner wants to ban all non Muslims I'd be just fine. Plenty of other gun ranges, bakeries and book stores out there.
Plus if a Muslim gun range banned all others there would be so much more room in the parking lot for FBI parking.
I'm just wondering how she's planning to tell if a customer is Muslim or not... No towels allowed? Is "no Muslims" code for whites only?
This whole thing seems ludicrous. Discrimination doesn't become fine just because it isn't against you.
Averageman
09-30-14, 01:43
My life has been threatened repeatedly by muslims who are angry that I have studied their koran, know it better than most of them, and am exposing the vileness of their so called “holy book” and its murderous directives.
I would say She has a reason if this is true.
here ya go want your blood to boil !
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/03/baker-forced-to-make-gay-wedding-cakes-undergo-sensitivity-training-after/
sad thing the gov now forces the guy to make the cake and go into sensitivity training and is now monitored on top of it having to submit quarterly reports to the gov !!!!
on top a few photographers have been sued for turning down gay clients !
I am kinda with ya on the below ?
I would not want them at a range anymore ? but again it would not stop them from coming in anyway and again might just bring issues ?
gun owners don't want guns banned ? to me its hypocritical a bit
if I did not want muslims at my range I might just say all shooters have to say the pledge of allegiance and eat a bacon sandwich to shoot here :) that could be funny
that way there is nothing anyone can do about it
What bakery? :p
Like stated, I'd like to see the first muslim/islamic customer sue the gun range and win. If that happens, then the store owner had it coming to her. I don't care either way, but I don't support Islam either. Do you?
yup people that don't get islam is not a religion of peace and history has proven this !
as I say our gov should check every mosque and if any ties to terrorists ever all officials are deported at that mosque and any mosque they have shared info with and deport those people to ! and bulldoze the mosques and keep doing this
like that guy that beheaded the lady that mosque and all its people on payroll all gone and the mosque dozed a large memorial in honor of the lady put up in its place or just build a park :)
My life has been threatened repeatedly by muslims who are angry that I have studied their koran, know it better than most of them, and am exposing the vileness of their so called “holy book” and its murderous directives.
I would say She has a reason if this is true.
I'm just wondering how she's planning to tell if a customer is Muslim or not... No towels allowed? Is "no Muslims" code for whites only?
This whole thing seems ludicrous. Discrimination doesn't become fine just because it isn't against you.
I guess she plans on only banning the Muslims who are being the kind of problem she cited in the first place. I suspect if a Muslim came to the range and dressed, acted and conducted himself like any other reasonable person there wouldn't be a problem. Of course if every Muslim did that, nobody would ever have a problem.
I hope all goes well, she should remember that people have been killed for cartoons and things of that sort.
That's different, because Christianity is a well-accepted religion.
I would like to see the first Muslim/Islamic customer try to sue her business. The owner clearly stated her view and defined the some of the violent aspects of the Koran.
If it really was that significant, then time will tell and she will go out of business. At least the owner is bold enough to state her beliefs and stake her business on it.
It doesn't matter how accepted a religion is. You're either for or against allowing businesses to discriminate based on religion. You can't say it's OK to discriminate against certain religions but not others.
I disagree with Islam in basically every way possible. But I agree with anti-discrimination laws with respect to religion.
EDIT: I'm just gonna stay out of this one.
Hypocritical talk here. I can dig up countless threads where some of you support private businesses decisions to post no firearms signs, now all of a sudden you're for the bill of rights. Which is it?
The Constitution does not secure/guarantee/protect citizens rights against private businesses. What is so hard to understand about that?
http://in-lawsuite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Feature-image-Floor-Plans-e1349326226741.png
Oh...you mean law suit.
http://m.quickmeme.com/img/a1/a10f669e0f57b8563a27256911774d8fbbd1827ce91ffea6fcad5ea831fe9edd.jpg
:-)
The_War_Wagon
09-30-14, 06:46
I see no problem as my home, property have been Muslim free for years.
Mine too. I maintain a pepperoni minefield throughout my property, and should they make it to my inner perimeter, I plan on hitting 'em hard with ham grenades! ;)
Clearly, some of you are ignoring the fact that The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
Soon to be a Muslim owned Gun Range.
They will get sued and lose,and I agree it's it probably not a good idea but I will reserve by /outrage to when Christians or Jehovah's Witness followers start sawing off heads on a regular basis.
You're being culturally insensitive. It's just how they express themselves. Embrace the diversity of thought and actions.
:rolleyes:
montanadave
09-30-14, 08:19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0
Clearly, some of you are ignoring the fact that The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
So I can walk into any Mosque with my shoes on, ham sandwich in hand and expect to participate in services?
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
*** FAIL ***
So I can walk into any Mosque with my shoes on, ham sandwich in hand and expect to participate in services?
That's a good question.
I want to say that you can't be banned from a mosque in America simply because you're not Muslim, but you can be kicked out for being disruptive. In that case you're being kicked out for not following the rules (no shirt no service is another example, but in this case it's shoes no service), not because of your religion.
Similarly you can't fire someone solely because he's a Muslim, but you can fire a Muslim that's terrible at his job. For example, a Muslim working at a bacon factory would probably not last very long.
Averageman
09-30-14, 15:55
How about pointing the gun in the semi down range position and kind of toward the target while kneeling below the bench all eyes closed and if it is allah's will he will get a Bullseye?
just my experiance
*** FAIL ***
Care to elaborate? Please point to even one incorrect thing I said.
Clearly, some of you are ignoring the fact that The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
I know. I've been sitting here scratching my head wondering if people forgot that the law changed because people used to deny a certain group of people the right to enter businesses/restaurants/establishments up until 60 or so years ago...
What they are doing is illegal discrimination, whether or not you like it.
Did they actually compel the bakers to prepare a cake for that couple? Because that would be shockingly against a very basic legal principle.
I know. I've been sitting here scratching my head wondering if people forgot that the law changed because people used to deny a certain group of people the right to enter businesses/restaurants/establishments up until 60 or so years ago...
What they are doing is illegal discrimination, whether or not you like it.
Did they actually compel the bakers to prepare a cake for that couple? Because that would be shockingly against a very basic legal principle.
In Colorado, where the cake baking thing happened, sexual orientation was added to the state version of that law.
Iirc, the cake shop decided to close down rather than serve the gay couple.
In Colorado, where the cake baking thing happened, sexual orientation was added to the state version of that law.
Iirc, the cake shop decided to close down rather than serve the gay couple.
see thats the thing. Normally, you can never compel specific performance. I'm guessing they had never formed a contract in the first place.
That's a good question.
I want to say that you can't be banned from a mosque in America simply because you're not Muslim, but you can be kicked out for being disruptive. In that case you're being kicked out for not following the rules (no shirt no service is another example, but in this case it's shoes no service), not because of your religion.
Similarly you can't fire someone solely because he's a Muslim, but you can fire a Muslim that's terrible at his job. For example, a Muslim working at a bacon factory would probably not last very long.
OK, so what if I'm just a crappy Muslim and keep talking about how Jesus and Buddha may have been right?
The reality is discrimination happens all the time. And so long as it isn't related to employment, loans or anything government it should be a PRIVATE matter.
If a Muslim wants to open a MUSLIM ONLY bakery, they should be allowed to as it is a private business. Obviously most people don't discriminate because it is turning money away but private business should be private business. If the KKK deli opened up that should be their right. Most of us wouldn't eat there but they SHOULD have the same right to provide / refuse service as any other business owner.
Thankfully in the firearms business I have the ATF which strongly ENCOURAGES me to decline to complete a transaction if I "believe" a person falls into some kind of "risk group" category that is so inclusive I could refuse to complete a transaction to the attorney general if I wanted and probably not have any problems.
Iirc, the cake shop decided to close down rather than serve the gay couple.
And what mystifies me is why any gay couple would want to have such an establishment bake them a cake. I'd rather spend my money where I'm wanted. There are so many bakeries that would love to bake a homo cake it isn't funny. But rather than support those who support them, they decided to create an issue because one damn bakery doesn't support them. That isn't very freedom or equality minded.
If I have a choice of two places to eat lunch and one has a NO CCW sign and the other does not, I don't go in the first one just to start a problem. I also don't go in the first one and just keep my mouth shut about my CCW even though I probably could. I take my money where I'm welcome and CCW isn't even an issue.
If only everyone did the same.
Funny how I can live in a world where a Jewish Deli can have a "NO Goyum" sign, an Islamic Tea House can have a "NO Kafirs" sign and a Christian bookstore can have a "No atheists" sign and it wouldn't bother me in the least. I actually prefer to know where I'm not wanted, that way I don't spend my money in the wrong place. That is the world I wish I lived in.
OK, so what if I'm just a crappy Muslim and keep talking about how Jesus and Buddha may have been right?
The reality is discrimination happens all the time. And so long as it isn't related to employment, loans or anything government it should be a PRIVATE matter.
If a Muslim wants to open a MUSLIM ONLY bakery, they should be allowed to as it is a private business. Obviously most people don't discriminate because it is turning money away but private business should be private business. If the KKK deli opened up that should be their right. Most of us wouldn't eat there but they SHOULD have the same right to provide / refuse service as any other business owner.
Thankfully in the firearms business I have the ATF which strongly ENCOURAGES me to decline to complete a transaction if I "believe" a person falls into some kind of "risk group" category that is so inclusive I could refuse to complete a transaction to the attorney general if I wanted and probably not have any problems.
The problem is that human nature makes this impractical. Oh sure in a vacuum I agree with you completely. But we don't live in a vacuum, we live in the real world. We haven't really changed much since the 60 as a species. Without rules like this in place we would indeed see a systemic problem of businesses denying services to an group of people based of idiotic reasons.
Black, Gay, Muslim, Christian, whatever. It doesn't matter. There are businesses large and small that would deny them services.
There is a pretty strong Anti Muslim trend lately in this country. Your average muslim is no worse than your average christian. But they suffer from the same problem that we as gun owners do. Namely bad PR. And that gives already bigoted people an excuse. Add in some peer pressure and a couple threatened boycotts and you would have businesses doing it left and right. Wait a few years and it would be gun owners. Not just when carrying but owning in general. Then maybe christians. Or any number of other groups.
Moose-Knuckle
09-30-14, 17:21
If I ever win the lottery and have stupid money laying around I'm going to hire a dream team of lawyers and a professional camera crew. One of the first things on my list is to walk into a Halal market here (we have several), and demand to purchase bacon, Vodka, and a pornographic magazine. All the while wearing a Mil-Spec Monkey "Pork Eating Crusader" shirt . . .
If a Muslim wants to open a MUSLIM ONLY bakery, they should be allowed to as it is a private business. Obviously most people don't discriminate because it is turning money away but private business should be private business. If the KKK deli opened up that should be their right. Most of us wouldn't eat there but they SHOULD have the same right to provide / refuse service as any other business owner.
In (non-scientific) theory, that's sound. In reality, you'd get a rehash of the segregated south. Humans are generally shitty to each other and require rules to keep them in line, be it laws or commandments.
And what mystifies me is why any gay couple would want to have such an establishment bake them a cake. I'd rather spend my money where I'm wanted. There are so many bakeries that would love to bake a homo cake it isn't funny. But rather than support those who support them, they decided to create an issue because one damn bakery doesn't support them. That isn't very freedom or equality minded.
If I have a choice of two places to eat lunch and one has a NO CCW sign and the other does not, I don't go in the first one just to start a problem. I also don't go in the first one and just keep my mouth shut about my CCW even though I probably could. I take my money where I'm welcome and CCW isn't even an issue.
I agree.
However, sometimes people stand up for their values via lawsuit and I can't really blame them for that. They are technically in the right, just like open carrying in a legal state is technically in the right and I can't get too mad, even though I personally would not do it.
If I ever win the lottery and have stupid money laying around I'm going to hire a dream team of lawyers and a professional camera crew. One of the first things on my list is to walk into a Halal market here (we have several), and demand to purchase bacon, Vodka, and a pornographic magazine. All the while wearing a Mil-Spec Monkey "Pork Eating Crusader" shirt . . .
If they sell those things and refuse you service then great. If they don't sell them then too bad.
I really don't know why the concept of equal treatment is so hard for some people.
Moose-Knuckle
09-30-14, 17:33
If they sell those things and refuse you service then great. If they don't sell them then too bad.
I really don't know why the concept of equal treatment is so hard for some people.
LOL!
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others". - George Orwell
Maybe the westboro Baptist idiots will join them.
And so long as it isn't related to employment, loans or anything government it should be a PRIVATE matter.
Maybe that is how it should be, but that isn't the way it is. And good luck with repealing or modifing the Civil Rights Act.
I am all for freedom of not having to serve who you want but sadly this is not allowed anymore ? and I hate it but its the law ? same reason I can't drive 120 on the freeway and not break the law
I think banning a groups is stupid in the sense of the way this was done though as its a publicity stunt at best
if it was not against the law then go for it
same time if some mosque does not want me in I don't want to bother going in one anyway ? why would i agree just to mess with em might be something I did when I was younger but these days whatever
just because the gays and the muslims and who ever want to stoop to levels to bait people in does not mean I will play there game I guess ? I would rather say sure come on in and have something that offends them worse they can do nothing about and make it clear and make them leave because they are not comfortable
or gun range say sure but we have to take down ID and copy everything on there ID have some bacon you are eating with your fingers handle there ID hand it back full of bacon grease :)
same as no shirt shoes no service for health reasons I don't want some stinky dude with a shirt on vs a clean person with no shirt ? so the no shirt thing is kinda stupid to
again better ways around things I would have told the gay couple sure I will bake your cake as I pick my nose and pick up a piece of cake with that hand say ya want to try a piece :) scratch myself and then hand them another sample :)
I am all for freedom of not having to serve who you want but sadly this is not allowed anymore ? and I hate it but its the law ? same reason I can't drive 120 on the freeway and not break the law
I think banning a groups is stupid in the sense of the way this was done though as its a publicity stunt at best
if it was not against the law then go for it
same time if some mosque does not want me in I don't want to bother going in one anyway ? why would i agree just to mess with em might be something I did when I was younger but these days whatever
just because the gays and the muslims and who ever want to stoop to levels to bait people in does not mean I will play there game I guess ? I would rather say sure come on in and have something that offends them worse they can do nothing about and make it clear and make them leave because they are not comfortable
or gun range say sure but we have to take down ID and copy everything on there ID have some bacon you are eating with your fingers handle there ID hand it back full of bacon grease :)
same as no shirt shoes no service for health reasons I don't want some stinky dude with a shirt on vs a clean person with no shirt ? so the no shirt thing is kinda stupid to
again better ways around things I would have told the gay couple sure I will bake your cake as I pick my nose and pick up a piece of cake with that hand say ya want to try a piece :) scratch myself and then hand them another sample :)
An interesting point that this brings up. Do churches have to follow the same rules as business? I don't believe they do but I could be wrong..
Also as a side note. The prohibition against pork is for the same reason it is found in other religions. These animals were known to carry disease and the writers of the books saw it as a way to keep people alive. Not all muslims are as caring about restrictions like this one. And even in the Qu'ran they are allowed to eat pork in some situations. And there is your useless trivia for the week.
yeah I know about the pork thing was more just saying what one could do ?
no idea about churches I would think if anything being tax exempt they have more scrutiny than a private biz :)
on the other bakery thing :)
I do think the baker in Colorado stayed open and the one in Oregon shut down ?
I do think it comes down to gays seem to be militant as do the atheist crowd against others !!! and while I can't stand the way they do things which is funny cause they claim to be tolerant and gays and atheist are usually in the same boat lowest of low scum who do not like anything that does not conform to what they want !!!!! if you try to deny you just play into there stupid game there is other ways around it
not all of both groups but sadly like muslims the gay and atheist crowd is filled with more intolerance than tolerant ones and the other so called good ones never speak out against the others that do things !!!! so all 3 can have each other :)
should say the few that do speak up and are not that way I am OK with :)
kinda getting sick of these groups and the way they do things maybe they do need to be fought back with there own childish stupid behavior ? go into a gay bakery and sue them for treating you bad etc...
And see it is funny. I have met for more intolerant christians than I have of all the other groups combine. I think a part of it is confirmation bias on all sides. You see the groups as being intolerant and I see them standing up for their rights.
And see it is funny. I have met for more intolerant christians than I have of all the other groups combine. I think a part of it is confirmation bias on all sides. You see the groups as being intolerant and I see them standing up for their rights.
Well there are also far more Christians in America than probably all other groups combined.
The problem is that human nature makes this impractical. Oh sure in a vacuum I agree with you completely. But we don't live in a vacuum, we live in the real world. We haven't really changed much since the 60 as a species. Without rules like this in place we would indeed see a systemic problem of businesses denying services to an group of people based of idiotic reasons.
Black, Gay, Muslim, Christian, whatever. It doesn't matter. There are businesses large and small that would deny them services.
There is a pretty strong Anti Muslim trend lately in this country. Your average muslim is no worse than your average christian. But they suffer from the same problem that we as gun owners do. Namely bad PR. And that gives already bigoted people an excuse. Add in some peer pressure and a couple threatened boycotts and you would have businesses doing it left and right. Wait a few years and it would be gun owners. Not just when carrying but owning in general. Then maybe christians. Or any number of other groups.
I'm POSITIVE I have been discriminated against because I wasn't black, Christian, Jewish or half a dozen other things in the past. So we might as well get rid of the stupid rules that aren't actually protecting me or anyone else and just find out who is who.
Clearly, some of you are ignoring the fact that The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."
And the New York State civil rights law, article 2, section 4 states that "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed." It is ignored almost completely. What's your point? Just being facetious of course but it's so aggravating that only certain rules are enforced.
And the New York State civil rights law, article 2, section 4 states that "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed." It is ignored almost completely. What's your point? Just being facetious of course but it's so aggravating that only certain rules are enforced.
It's unfortunate that the 2nd amendment and that NYS law wasn't worded better. Anti-gun laws skate through the gray interpretation of "infringed". They also interpret the law as stating that as long as some arms are allowed, particularly the most common arms, that the law is being followed if certain other arms are restricted or banned. Then there was the whole "well regulated militia" BS in the federal constitution.
They could have wrote something like "the right of individuals to keep any weapons of his or her choosing, carry any weapons of his or her choosing, and use any weapons of his or her choosing for otherwise lawful purposes cannot be restricted nor regulated in any way, except when the individual has been convicted of a violent felony or a domestic abuse by a jury of his or her peers." But even that isn't perfect - it could be exploited in the "for otherwise lawful purposes" wording but I really don't care enough to continue refining it lol. Crafting laws is difficult, you have to be clear, concise, and figure out as many exceptions as possible and take them into account. You also have to be unambiguous. To be honest, if this were a real attempt, I wouldn't even word it as a regular English sentence; it'd be more of a bullet format to be very clear as to what is being said. Which would be an interesting exercise actually.
I'm POSITIVE I have been discriminated against because I wasn't black, Christian, Jewish or half a dozen other things in the past. So we might as well get rid of the stupid rules that aren't actually protecting me or anyone else and just find out who is who.
The fact that every crime isn't stopped isn't a good argument for making those things legal or acceptable.
so forcing a bakery to bake a cake is standing up for your rights ?
demanding I take down a cross is your rights ?
hahahahaah OK SURE !!!!!!
And see it is funny. I have met for more intolerant christians than I have of all the other groups combine. I think a part of it is confirmation bias on all sides. You see the groups as being intolerant and I see them standing up for their rights.
so forcing a bakery to bake a cake is standing up for your rights ?
demanding I take down a cross is your rights ?
hahahahaah OK SURE !!!!!!
Were black folk staging sit-ins at lunch counters during segregation standing up for their rights?
No, they were sitting for them!
But I think you get the picture.
so forcing a bakery to bake a cake is standing up for your rights ?
demanding I take down a cross is your rights ?
hahahahaah OK SURE !!!!!!
Actually yes. 1st amendment for one. Civil rights act for the other.
what about the victims rights who does not want to bake that cake or do other things someone decides they want over you ?
hhahahaha typical atheist gay attitude always about yourself and never the other person and why our country is failing !
actually if anything since you don't believe in religion and you want to trample on my religious belief kinda should put me above you with my property ? that why they call them PRIVATE BUSINESS !!!!!
its sad case of how pathetic our country has become with so called tolerance to over ride others
Actually yes. 1st amendment for one. Civil rights act for the other.
Business do not have the same rights as an individual. And when you open a business you are agreeing to abide by a set of rules. One of those rules is the civil rights act.
But I believe that we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Even without those rules I know that I for one would not refuse my services to anyone. Because I DO respect the other person.
since you brought race into it ? and history !
what about if someone wants to start a white college fund ?
or white channel ? that would be racist !
but its ok for blacks to do that what about my civil rights ? that is the problem today race is living in the black community against whites more than it is whites against blacks anymore and fact that whatever it was %95 of blacks voted for obama is proof its alive and well sadly and they are always screaming the race card
the progressive democrats created the KKK they created racism and keep the fire stoked big time
same reason the military became segregated ! when it was not same reason used to have a lot of blacks in political power till democrats decided that was not OK
democrats are the biggest race controllers
so yeah the left is also the cause of all this and uses it for political reasons same way you speak out against holder or obama and you are racist who pulls that card !!!! the blacks and liberals
civil rights of gays has nothing to do with bakeries and stuff its a pure political move anymore
same with blacks people should be American and that is it no black american or mexican etc...
Were black folk staging sit-ins at lunch counters during segregation standing up for their rights?
No, they were sitting for them!
But I think you get the picture.
Business do not have the same rights as an individual. And when you open a business you are agreeing to abide by a set of rules. One of those rules is the civil rights act.
But I believe that we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Even without those rules I know that I for one would not refuse my services to anyone. Because I DO respect the other person.
Funny, I don't remember agreeing to that or even being informed that I'm subject to the civil rights act as a FFL. I do know I've seen more than a few "private businesses" with signs stating they "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
The fact that every crime isn't stopped isn't a good argument for making those things legal or acceptable.
Well here is the problem, it's a ridiculous crime that is RARELY stopped. It's virtually unenforceable. If I want to discriminate against Person A I can easily come up with a dozen excuses that are lawful even if they aren't the true reason and I can come up with dozens of things to make that person NOT want to be serviced by me.
It's really easy to give shitty service and have people go elsewhere. Wanna know what's hard? Winning the business of anyone. And that is why the civil rights act, as it pertains to refusing service to customers is damn stupid.
And while we are at it, if a person from Group A "forces" me to legally provide service, they are probably going to get shitty and indifferent service and it won't be because they are part of "Group A", it will be because they are a professional victim who goes around looking to be discriminated against and is the reason we have these stupid laws to begin with.
The civil rights act fixed nothing, we still have racism, in fact we have institutionalized racism and we are as far from genuine "equality" as we were in 1968. And the reason is this, if a person hates somebody simply because of skin pigment, sexual orientation or the color of their socks...no law in the world is going to change any of that. All those laws do is reinforce the hatred and give them one more thing to hate about the people they hate.
I'm fully aware that "race" as a valid classification doesn't even exist, however things like affirmative action still create resentment in me even though I'm aware of things like "genetic exceptions." Now I'm not fanatic about it, but I still resent it as much as anything else that doesn't put me on an "equal and level playing field" with everyone else. Bad enough I have to try and compete with those who were "born connected", that's just the way life is..., I shouldn't have to deal with issues of "preferable pigment" and neither should anyone else.
And you just can't have it both ways with a "civil rights act" which says you can't be discriminated against based on race and then have things like "affirmative action" which discriminate against people based on race. But that is exactly what we have right now.
Funny, I don't remember agreeing to that or even being informed that I'm subject to the civil rights act as a FFL. I do know I've seen more than a few "private businesses" with signs stating they "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
I never explicitly signed anything saying I won't murder anyone. I still can't go out and kill. I have to follow the law.. So do businesses.
And yes you have those signs. They mean nothing when it comes to a protected class. You can kick a person out for being disruptive. You can't do it because they are black, or are wearing a crucifix, or you know they are gay.
Why are anti discrimination laws ok regarding employment, but not customers?
hire who is best for job ! not because we need a black and woman and whatever ?
but companies like hooters do it all the time ? you want a 60 year old fat man serving food to you when you go there ? never been but I read about the issues
same thing get some gay anti gun guy at a gun store would that go over but sure he could push to be hired would that be OK if he sued his way in
Why are anti discrimination laws ok regarding employment, but not customers?
Why are anti discrimination laws ok regarding employment, but not customers?
Well because for starters anti discrimination laws actually discriminate based upon race in the form of affirmative action. If there were no "mandatory pigment" laws I'd be fine with a law that stated it was a crime to discriminate based upon race, etc. for employment.
However being a customer is a voluntary thing and involves private property in the form of a private business. I can choose to take my business where it is wanted. Can't really do the same when it comes to getting hired, accepted to a school, etc. That said, I doubt my application to Morehouse would ever be approved regardless of my grades.
hire who is best for job ! not because we need a black and woman and whatever ?
but companies like hooters do it all the time ? you want a 60 year old fat man serving food to you when you go there ? never been but I read about the issues
same thing get some gay anti gun guy at a gun store would that go over but sure he could push to be hired would that be OK if he sued his way in
I heard hooters has to make out of court settlements all the time to men who want to work there as a server.
Eta: here's the first I found one:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/04/21/texas-man-settles-discrimination-lawsuit-against-hooters-for-not-hiring-male/
A quick Google search brings up a lot of them.
They don't want to risk a court ruling against them, which would probably destroy their business model, so they always settle for likely a good amount of money.
yup why I mentioned it ridiculous for the idiot guy to want to do it again why bother who really wants to be a hooters guy ?
again someone being a idiot tramping on others for there own selfish ideals ?
I heard hooters has to make out of court settlements all the time to men who want to work there as a server.
Eta: here's the first I found one:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/04/21/texas-man-settles-discrimination-lawsuit-against-hooters-for-not-hiring-male/
A quick Google search brings them up.
They don't want to risk a court ruling against them, which would probably destroy their business model, so they always settle.
However being a customer is a voluntary thing and involves private property in the form of a private business. I can choose to take my business where it is wanted. Can't really do the same when it comes to getting hired, accepted to a school, etc. That said, I doubt my application to Morehouse would ever be approved regardless of my grades.
I was living in a tiny town in the south for a few years recently. As a minority, but also a member of the armed forces, I never felt racism. They loved the USAF.
But in a town of maybe 30k people including base personnel, I was probably one of 20, maybe less, people of east Asian descent. Had the town hated Chinese or Japanese or Koreans and I didn't have access to the base... Well, there's one grocery store in town, a hand full of restaurants, one gun range, and some fast food. Nearest big town was an hour away.
That could have really sucked had discrimination been legally allowed against customers and if they didn't like my race. It was such a small town with a close knit group of restaurant and store owners that there would not have been any other options to take my money to. And I was such a minority there that it would not have been advantageous for any store other to break ranks with his comrades for a few extra customers.
Yes, most people live in large cities where there are many alternatives. But aren't we trying to integrate society rather than create a collection of enclaves like Chinatowns, Little Havanas, etc?
yup why I mentioned it ridiculous for the idiot guy to want to do it again why bother who really wants to be a hooters guy ?
again someone being a idiot tramping on others for there own selfish ideals ?
Maybe he knows they'll settle out of court and just wants free money lol. It's not a bad idea if you would otherwise qualify to work there as a server but for your gender.
Yes, most people live in large cities where there are many alternatives. But aren't we trying to integrate society rather than create a collection of enclaves like Chinatowns, Little Havanas, etc?
Just so we stay on the same page, I think racism is absurd because race doesn't actually exist.
But let me ask you this, if that one lonely grocery store was run by the Grand Dragon of the KKK would you not find an alternative somehow? I wouldn't trust anything they sold me in your shoes.
By the same token I'd hate to discover my favorite Chinese eatery stopped allowing "round eyes" but I think as a private business owner they have to right to do so if they wish. And if they were forced to serve me against their preferences, I'd hate to think what might be in the egg drop soup.
yeah I can see that ?
my feeling is not very high of people like that :)
Maybe he knows they'll settle out of court and just wants free money lol. It's not a bad idea if you would otherwise qualify to work there as a server but for your gender.
being a Haole boy from the islands I am used to being the minority and always suffered some racism based whatever ?
me I let it slide like most do because its only that jerky % that ruin it for the otherwise awesome give you the shirt off your back Hawaiians of whatever decent
whats funny is we used race to describe ourselves sometimes ? selling something on crags list ? OK I meet you at the so and so look for the blonde haole guy ?
or they would say yeah local boy or brown boy or local philipino will be wearing this ? just a way to describe yourself ?
same thing when I lived in Honduras white and blacks had no issues what so ever I mean NONE ? really interesting both hated the spaniards ! hahahah kinda funny in a strange way and the other Mayan types hated the spaniards to because to them there is a difference of those who live there between the old original locals of Mayan decent vs the Spanish ones and it was only the spanish ones that were the problem and caused problems ?
so even amongst what some see as the same people Hondurans there is division of some based on race ?
I think the point is how it effects you but more important how the others effect other people from the person being racist !
like being Haole in the islands you can't stop what others do but the point being its those few who are the jerks toward you that give you that jerk perspective that you can either carry over to the next person or take each person with no pre conceptions of what they might do ?
I think most of us are like this we don't hate anyone based on anything but the activist type ones ruin it for the others is maybe my point !
Moose-Knuckle
10-01-14, 15:53
But aren't we trying to integrate society rather than create a collection of enclaves like Chinatowns, Little Havanas, etc?
Well that is what the politically correct establishment keeps telling us but then we have; BET, Ebony and Essence magazines, Congressional Black Caucus, United Negro College Fund, Affirmative Action, Miss Black USA pageant, so on and so forth . . .
thopkins22
10-01-14, 16:05
So I think we can all agree that it demonstrates an extreme lack of class and is trashy, it should be their right(even if we disagree) but is not actually legal, and that the appropriate response is to personally decide whether or not we'd give them business.
I can't fathom wanting to do business at an establishment where my money would go to people like that...the thought is nauseating. Nor can I fathom wanting to send people with guns to force them to do something they don't want to do...this too is nauseating.
So I think we can all agree that it demonstrates an extreme lack of class and is trashy, it should be their right(even if we disagree) but is not actually legal, and that the appropriate response is to personally decide whether or not we'd give them business.
I can't fathom wanting to do business at an establishment where my money would go to people like that...the thought is nauseating. Nor can I fathom wanting to send people with guns to force them to do something they don't want to do...this too is nauseating.
Yep. That's pretty much where I'm at.
Funny, I don't remember agreeing to that or even being informed that I'm subject to the civil rights act as a FFL. I do know I've seen more than a few "private businesses" with signs stating they "reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."
Exactly.
Any business owner can technically refuse to serve anyone at their discretion. You don't necessarily have to state why you are refusing service to a customer or a group of people.
When I owned a business a couple years ago, I can refuse to service a client for much less reasons than religion or race. If someone lived too far or in a bad neighborhood, or if that client just looked shady, I did not offer them my services.
You all can keep claiming that you can deny service to people all you want. However it isn't the truth.
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=97&page=transcript
(Note that the protected classes have been amended and expanded over time)
TITLE II--INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION
SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
(b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:
(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;
(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the
premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;
............
This is the law. Not an opinion. It was passed by an overwhelming bi-partisan majority. And the fact that other laws are not always enforced doesn't mean this one should not be.
As for the bakeries, gun ranges, etc. If they had chosen to lie and say they were too busy or something similar they may have gotten away with it. But instead they decided to tell the icky gays and muslims how evil they were and how they would not serve them. So yeah I can imagine the people getting a little pissed off. I sure as hell know I would.
Moose-Knuckle
10-01-14, 19:31
You all can keep claiming that you can deny service to people all you want. However it isn't the truth.
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=97&page=transcript
(Note that the protected classes have been amended and expanded over time)
This is the law. Not an opinion. It was passed by an overwhelming bi-partisan majority. And the fact that other laws are not always enforced doesn't mean this one should not be.
As for the bakeries, gun ranges, etc. If they had chosen to lie and say they were too busy or something similar they may have gotten away with it. But instead they decided to tell the icky gays and muslims how evil they were and how they would not serve them. So yeah I can imagine the people getting a little pissed off. I sure as hell know I would.
Blah, blah, blah.
White women still cannot enter Miss Black USA, white students are not qualified for Affirmative Action, Donald Trump will never grace the cover of Ebony, and I still cannot purchase bacon, vodka, and porn from a Halal food mart.
Blah, blah, blah.
White women still cannot enter Miss Black USA, white students are not qualified for Affirmative Action, Donald Trump will never grace the cover of Ebony, and I still cannot purchase bacon, vodka, and porn from a Halal food mart.
Affirmative action is an entirely different animal that I think we all agree is a problem. The Miss Black USA issue, etc do not excuse other wrongs.
And frankly the purchasing of bacon, etc at a Halal market ignores the actual law. It is an argument thrown up when there is no actual argument against the issue. The law only applies to services they do provide. If a shop sold Bacon to whites but not blacks it would be a problem. You can't sue a place for something they do not carry. Only if they discriminate in the services or products they do sell.
23% of the earths population is Islamic. I know this is going to come as a shock to many of you, but not all of them are bad. You guys listen to the news way to much.
White women still cannot enter Miss Black USA, white students are not qualified for Affirmative Action, Donald Trump will never grace the cover of Ebony, and I still cannot purchase bacon, vodka, and porn from a Halal food mart.
Moose, I think I know how to solve this. You can be our official test case. Next time around, you should enter Miss Black USA and then sue when you are denied on the basis of sex and race.
You all can keep claiming that you can deny service to people all you want. However it isn't the truth.
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=97&page=transcript
(Note that the protected classes have been amended and expanded over time)
This is the law. Not an opinion. It was passed by an overwhelming bi-partisan majority. And the fact that other laws are not always enforced doesn't mean this one should not be.
As for the bakeries, gun ranges, etc. If they had chosen to lie and say they were too busy or something similar they may have gotten away with it. But instead they decided to tell the icky gays and muslims how evil they were and how they would not serve them. So yeah I can imagine the people getting a little pissed off. I sure as hell know I would.
Ok, I see hotels, places that serve food and gasoline...but I don't see retail sales.
Well you have to probably win local beauty pageants first, then state, before going up for a national level pageant, like any tournament.
23% of the earths population is Islamic. I know this is going to come as a shock to many of you, but not all of them are bad. You guys listen to the news way to much.
Not everyone in Germany actually RAN a concentration camp or killed people. However an incredibly LARGE percentage of the population supported the actions of those who did terrible things.
When the MAJORITY of Muslims no longer support the barbarity of Sharia Law, and there are entire countries of Muslims that do support Sharia, and when the MAJORITY of Muslims no longer support ideas of legitimate Jihad then you will see the end of Islamic terrorism.
But currently that is not the case because secular Islam is rare indeed and even if most Muslims don't take part in Jihad they still believe in it's validity.
Well you have to probably win local beauty pageants first, then state, before going up for a national level pageant, like any tournament.
Meanwhile...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7567291
thopkins22
10-01-14, 23:38
Meanwhile...
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7567291
I notice that story is fifteen years old. Any resolution?
That's not the normal response...but then again in New York? I was in school in Venezuela with a South African who happened to be white...he identified as an African. Again in College Station with a white kid who's parents emigrated from South Africa. He identified as an African American...more power to him because most who identify as that are just Americans.
I know a kid whose mother was American, and his father Spanish. He applied to university as a hispanic...who could blame him?
Ok, I see hotels, places that serve food and gasoline...but I don't see retail sales.
Read a bit further in the link I included.
SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
public accommodations
Within US law, public accommodations are generally defined as entities, both public and private, that are used by the public. Examples include retail stores, rental establishments and service establishments, as well as educational institutions, recreation facilities and service centers.
Blah, blah, blah.
White women still cannot enter Miss Black USA, white students are not qualified for Affirmative Action, Donald Trump will never grace the cover of Ebony, and I still cannot purchase bacon, vodka, and porn from a Halal food mart.
Those are some pretty sad reasons to disagree with anti discrimination laws. It's natural for humans who have been mistreated to form groups, same applies to minorities.
Of muslims in the US, you are saying the majority support sharia law? (what a buzz word). Do you have any reliable polling's for global muslims for that matter? No, it's conjecture.
In fact, one recent gallop pole shows that in turkey and Iran, the majority of respondents did not believe sharia law should be in effect. Those are 2 of the most Muslim countries in the world.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108724/iranians-egyptians-turks-contrasting-views-sharia.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/104731/muslims-want-democracy-theocracy.aspx
Could Honu and I apply as Pacific Islander, when neither of us are ethnically Hawaiian nor Polynesian?
Those are some pretty sad reasons to disagree with anti discrimination laws. It's natural for humans who have been mistreated to form groups, same applies to minorities.
Well I'm a white guy who lived in a predominantly black, low income neighborhood for years. When should I expect my "preferred protection" laws and what special groups will be formed to accommodate me? I'm ok with not being eligible for contests, just so long as I get my discrimination compensation.
Or failing that, how about we remove all race based laws and just attempt some form of actual equality?
Of muslims in the US, you are saying the majority support sharia law? (what a buzz word). Do you have any reliable polling's for global muslims for that matter? No, it's conjecture.
In fact, one recent gallop pole shows that in turkey and Iran, the majority of respondents did not believe sharia law should be in effect. Those are 2 of the most Muslim countries in the world.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108724/iranians-egyptians-turks-contrasting-views-sharia.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/104731/muslims-want-democracy-theocracy.aspx
Well people in Iran can state Sharia "shouldn't" be in effect, but it is and Iran IS an Islamic theocracy. You also seem to have forgotten about Saudi Arabia, UAE, Sudan, Egypt, Pakistan, Nigeria, Qatar, Indonesia and Brunei.
Turkey is one of those rare exceptions that is a somewhat secular Muslim country, similar to Iraq before we destabilized it.
As for Muslims in the US and their support of Sharia and Jihad. There are only a few enclaves like Dearborne where populations seek and sometimes practice and enforce Sharia despite it being in opposition to the US legal system. But the vast majority of Muslims, when pressed will support Jihad as a "valid" concept even if they state they don't support a given act of terrorism. Jihad is basically "religious duty" and once a conflict is given validity by a recognized religious leader it generally is recognized by most muslims.
The very nature of Islam makes it difficult for any muslim to divorce his faith from concepts such as valid Jihad. At best there is only disagreement regarding definitions of Jihad but there are disagreements regarding what is "true Islam" and muslims regularly kill other muslims over that disagreement. This is the basis for most Sunni / Shia conflicts.
Could Honu and I apply as Pacific Islander, when neither of us are ethnically Hawaiian nor Polynesian?hahahahah so true :)
funny cause when I ask for Shoyu at the Hawaiian food place here I get a blank look then have to say OH SOY SAUCE !!
when you cook with oyster sauce all the time or fish sauce and you have a selection of shoyu :) not just one kind and you know the difference in taste and what a dark shoyu is
when you have multiple rice makers and know your white sticky rices and which ones are better
cook outdoors all the time and my fav foods are pretty much all rice based and anything with shoyu involved and can handle chopsticks just fine and know when its OK to shovel the food in from a bowl and your zojirushi hot water boiler is on your counter :)
and its SAIMIN NOT RAMEN !!!!!! and my fav pan is a super awesome wok that I use outside on a proper burner :)
and camping we fly Koinobori for the kids :)
oh and its SLIPPERS not flip flops !
I am a islander :) hahahahahaha
I should be able to check something else on that box :)
I often don't feel like I belong here on the mainland I will tell you that :) I was more at home in the islands with my own kind of people and that has nothing to do with color only to do with attitude we all share
funny story one of my good buds is African but South African for many many many generations so when he was getting his lic here he checked he was African :) ahhahaha through the lady at the DMV for a loop and she said you have to be black only africans are black !!!!
he finally gave up after trying to explain things to her but she was so dumb she really thought only people in Africa are black she said no white people live in Africa hahahahah
I notice that story is fifteen years old. Any resolution?
That's not the normal response...but then again in New York? I was in school in Venezuela with a South African who happened to be white...he identified as an African. Again in College Station with a white kid who's parents emigrated from South Africa. He identified as an African American...more power to him because most who identify as that are just Americans.
I know a kid whose mother was American, and his father Spanish. He applied to university as a hispanic...who could blame him?
The story is five years old, no idea how it's going.
I tried to find another local story about a South African girl who was refused admission to a High School after school club for "African Americans", ironically she would have been the only member actually "from" Africa.
Just more insidious things related to race, in addition to the fact that race doesn't actually exist, which makes the entire concept absurd in practice and an abomination when endorsed by laws. I really wish we could just run a month long PBS special about "Genetic Exception" and then abandon the entire concept along with "blood line based" Eugenics.
Well I'm a white guy who lived in a predominantly black, low income neighborhood for years. When should I expect my "preferred protection" laws and what special groups will be formed to accommodate me? I'm ok with not being eligible for contests, just so long as I get my discrimination compensation.
Or failing that, how about we remove all race based laws and just attempt some form of actual equality?
The bottom sentence especially. Can this actually happen now? I'm not sure.
The bottom sentence especially. Can this actually happen now? I'm not sure.
Probably not, it would be deemed "racist" to remove "race based" laws. The problem is "racism" is a unifying factor today as much as it was in the 1960s. Without "racism" Obama would never have been elected President and as a consequence those forms of "racism" have been validated and are considered inviolate.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-14, 03:12
Affirmative action is an entirely different animal that I think we all agree is a problem. The Miss Black USA issue, etc do not excuse other wrongs.
And frankly the purchasing of bacon, etc at a Halal market ignores the actual law. It is an argument thrown up when there is no actual argument against the issue. The law only applies to services they do provide. If a shop sold Bacon to whites but not blacks it would be a problem. You can't sue a place for something they do not carry. Only if they discriminate in the services or products they do sell.
I'm sorry but all I got from the above is that its A-Okay (politically correct) to discriminate against white, heterosexual, males of Judeo/Christian beliefs.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-14, 03:18
23% of the earths population is Islamic. I know this is going to come as a shock to many of you, but not all of them are bad. You guys listen to the news way to much.
And yet somehow Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. manage not to fly passenger jets full of people into skyscrapers full of people, behead journalists online, rage a "jihad" against believers of other faiths, shoot up Army posts, behead innocent women at their former employer, so on and so forth . . .
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-14, 03:23
Moose, I think I know how to solve this. You can be our official test case. Next time around, you should enter Miss Black USA and then sue when you are denied on the basis of sex and race.
Actually this is a brilliant idea!
I'll add this to my "if I when the lottery list" with my dream team of lawyers and professional camera crew. My inner Saul Alinsky is telling me that I would be a victim of a "double hate-crime". Not only would they discriminate me due to my gender but ALSO my race.
For the talent portion of the contest I would play a rendition of "The Bonnie Blue Flag" on a banjo while wearing a kilt.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-14, 03:26
Well you have to probably win local beauty pageants first, then state, before going up for a national level pageant, like any tournament.
If I didn't win I would just throw out the race card along the way.
Moose-Knuckle
10-02-14, 03:54
Those are some pretty sad reasons to disagree with anti discrimination laws.
So you support racism?
Equality is just that, it's equal or it isn't.
People like you, Obama, Holder, Oprah, the MSM, NAACP, Jesse, Al, and the gang would have a conniption if there were white only television networks, white only magazines, white only beauty pageants, white only college assistant programs, et al.
It's natural for humans who have been mistreated to form groups, same applies to minorities.
Tell me about it.
I'm a Western-European-American. The oldest known people group in North America are the Clovis people. This was a mixed race group of people when Western-Europeans crossed Atlantic sea ice during the last glacial maximum and Asians traversed the Bering land bridge. Where is my casino already?!
Then on my Irish side of the family my ancestors were enslaved via the feudal system in Europe. Instead of being slaves under a master on a plantation they were serfs under a lord on manor lands. All the while being attacked by those crazy giant Norse men just to finally escape to North America to find signs like "Irish Aren't Welcome" and "NO IRISH" in places like New York. Then other of their fellow Irishmen were kidnapped by the Crown, forced into indigent servitude, and shipped off to penal colonies in Australia and sugar plantations in the Caribbean.
Oh and lets not forget the MILLIONS of WHITE EUROPEAN slaves in North Africa. You know the ones that President Thomas Jefferson formed a little known group called the United State Marine Corps, sent them to rescue white American slaves, and secure the heart beats of the Barbary regime.
But hey racism is okay so long as its against whites, sexism is okay so long as it's against males, and religious intolerance is okay so long as it's against Christians.
Completely unrelated aside but does anyone else get a kick out oh Honu's postings? Good stuff indeed.
Ok, diversion over.
and on top of it many islamic countries DO want sharia law some over %80 of some population in those nations feel this way and do think if you leave the religion you should be killed if you are gay death a woman who does something they don't like death adultery death just want to rape little boys OK the list goes on and on
but yes some of them are very good people the ones that put there life on the line for Marcus Luttrell and many others are like them also
the sad thing is these good ones are almost the minority in many countries and not the majority and also they do not speak up against it and I can see why when the majority will turn you in ?
would have been like speaking up against sadam or hitler etc...
I only do not like the bad ones and so far what I am seeing is that is most of them and I look at history and I know what they have done and what they want to gain back one day again
when you go to Hawaii %10 of the locals HATE YOU !!!! will want to pound you for no other reason than you are a tourist and they don't care about skin color but don't let that ruin it for the other ones ?
pretty sad really that %10 ruin it for the rest
also note chances are %50 of all you see will be on ice !
now figure some countries that will be muslims but it will be %80 want to do something :) in some other countries maybe only %25
again % of the good ones are slim sadly
And yet somehow Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. manage not to fly passenger jets full of people into skyscrapers full of people, behead journalists online, rage a "jihad" against believers of other faiths, shoot up Army posts, behead innocent women at their former employer, so on and so forth . . .
Owner should be and will be sued into Oblivion. A business can not discriminate based on Religion. And for all the people giving the owner a high five. How are you going to feel when it is a business that wants to exclude Christians.
Businesses follow many more restrictions than we do as individuals. As a person I can dislike someone who is a Jehovah's Witness. However if one comes to me wanting to sell their home I have to treat them just like I would anyone else.
I'm not thin skinned like the Progressives & muslims. I don't feel entitled to anything based on my Christian beliefs. If they don't like me because I'm Christian, I'll take my business elsewhere & spread the word to all my Christian & atheist friends (Who aren't Christian bashers) to do the same. You see, it's trendy to hate Christians in current times. The Progressives have indoctrinated a large portion of the population (Yourself included) to be intolerant of Christians, while paying no attention to any other religion, & even putting Muslims on a pedestal. No other religion gets bashed as do Christians. Even the Muslims who are the only religion of terror globally. I fully support this woman & her stance on Muslims. I don't want them around me, my home, my family, or my business either.
Have you been reading the headlines lately? Are we fighting Christians in a "War on Terror" or Muslims? Are Christians taking whole schools of kids hostage? Are they beheading people in the name of Jesus Christ? Are they threatening to hang a cross above the White House?
Bill Maher gets it !
got to say I don't care for the guy but at least he knows the score kinda thing !!!
and seems like one of the few on the far left that understands what we are facing with the islamic uprising
its worse than the Nazis in Germany but like the Nazis they were bad all of them
now the Germans not all of them were bad but quite a few were who kinda hid in the midst for various reasons I think its kinda the same way today but with islam we are facing the whole Nazi thing all over but for some reason as you have said the left has managed to trick some folks ?
I'm not thin skinned like the Progressives & muslims. I don't feel entitled to anything based on my Christian beliefs. If they don't like me because I'm Christian, I'll take my business elsewhere & spread the word to all my Christian & atheist friends (Who aren't Christian bashers) to do the same. You see, it's trendy to hate Christians in current times. The Progressives have indoctrinated a large portion of the population (Yourself included) to be intolerant of Christians, while paying no attention to any other religion, & even putting Muslims on a pedestal. No other religion gets bashed as do Christians. Even the Muslims who are the only religion of terror globally. I fully support this woman & her stance on Muslims. I don't want them around me, my home, my family, or my business either.
Have you been reading the headlines lately? Are we fighting Christians in a "War on Terror" or Muslims? Are Christians taking whole schools of kids hostage? Are they beheading people in the name of Jesus Christ? Are they threatening to hang a cross above the White House?
Could Honu and I apply as Pacific Islander, when neither of us are ethnically Hawaiian nor Polynesian?
I say go for it if you were born there!
For the talent portion of the contest I would play a rendition of "The Bonnie Blue Flag" on a banjo while wearing a kilt.
We need audio and video!!!!!!!
beschatten
10-02-14, 11:52
As a Christian, I'm actually pretty offended that this Jan Morgan would do this.
She's just asking for more hate-spewing crack to spill out into the streets. It's stuff like this that just gives everything Christianity stands for a bad rep. Since, ya know, everybody that goes to church on Easter or has ever stepped foot in a church consider themselves a Christian.
As a Christian, I'm pretty happy she did it. Why should Christians worry about being considered intolerant? Muslims seem to embrace being known as intolerant.
Christians are hugely tolerant. All kinds of disrespect and vilification of our Lord and Savior are spewed non-stop around the world and we do nothing about it, usually.
We're either super tolerant, or incredible wimps. At least Muslims are willing to kill and die over the slightest disrespect to their prophet.
As a Christian, I'm pretty happy she did it. Why should Christians worry about being considered intolerant? Muslims seem to embrace being known as intolerant.
Christians are hugely tolerant. All kinds of disrespect and vilification of our Lord and Savior are spewed non-stop around the world and we do nothing about it, usually.
We're either super tolerant, or incredible wimps. At least Muslims are willing to kill and die over the slightest disrespect to their prophet.
Do you really believe Jesus cares what "people" say? If so that is a pretty insecure "lord and savior." Also being willing to "kill and die" for Jesus isn't necessarily a good thing. I thought the entire point was "he died" so you don't have to go out there "killing and dying."
Do you really believe that when you arrive at the afterlife Jesus would be impressed by your body count of "non believers"?
Do you really believe that when you arrive at the afterlife Jesus would be impressed by your body count of "non believers"?
I'll be a little disappointed if I don't at least get a brofist from St Peter.
As a Christian, I'm pretty happy she did it. Why should Christians worry about being considered intolerant? Muslims seem to embrace being known as intolerant.
Christians are hugely tolerant. All kinds of disrespect and vilification of our Lord and Savior are spewed non-stop around the world and we do nothing about it, usually.
We're either super tolerant, or incredible wimps. At least Muslims are willing to kill and die over the slightest disrespect to their prophet.
Do you really believe Jesus cares what "people" say? If so that is a pretty insecure "lord and savior." Also being willing to "kill and die" for Jesus isn't necessarily a good thing. I thought the entire point was "he died" so you don't have to go out there "killing and dying."
Do you really believe that when you arrive at the afterlife Jesus would be impressed by your body count of "non believers"?
You inferred a great deal from my writing that isn't there.
My own intolerance and insecurity shouldn't be projected onto Jesus.
I didn't say killing and dying for Jesus would be good. I said Muslims are willing to do it for their own guy.
I also said zero about impressing Jesus in the afterlife with a body count. That comes purely from you. You seem to think you have some special insight into Christian beliefs, but I think you have notions in your mind that exist only there.
I've read a good number of your posts, SteyrAUG. Congrats on having the time to have such a high post count (no, that wouldn't impress Jesus). Your attempts to point out inconsistencies in [your perception of] Christian beliefs are a total waste of time and energy.
You inferred a great deal from my writing that isn't there.
My own intolerance and insecurity shouldn't be projected onto Jesus.
I didn't say killing and dying for Jesus would be good. I said Muslims are willing to do it for their own guy.
I also said zero about impressing Jesus in the afterlife with a body count. That comes purely from you. You seem to think you have some special insight into Christian beliefs, but I think you have notions in your mind that exist only there.
I've read a good number of your posts, SteyrAUG. Congrats on having the time to have such a high post count (no, that wouldn't impress Jesus). Your attempts to point out inconsistencies in [your perception of] Christian beliefs are a total waste of time and energy.
I seem to have read you wrong, you definitely misunderstood the point I was attempting to make. I wasn't trying to point out inconsistencies in your religion, I was attempting to point out how "your beliefs" differ from a Muslim who is willing to kill for Allah and suggest it isn't anything you really want to aspire to or admire in any way.
I don't believe I have any "special insight" into Christianity, but I believe I have a basic understanding.
And just so we are clear, I agree with your first point that Christians shouldn't feel obligated to be overly tolerant of Muslims, especially when it's hardly reciprocated. But that is the nature of Christianity to a certain extent, being Christian isn't easy. I also don't see that "tolerance" as "weakness" anymore than I see Buddhist passivity as "weakness." It's actually very difficult to live that way in a world full of aggressive, intolerant, jackasses. It is actually one of the things that prevents me from being Christian, I could never forgive those who have greatly wronged me.
I hope that gets us on the same page.
Leaveammoforme
10-02-14, 17:05
As a Christian, I'm pretty happy she did it. Why should Christians worry about being considered intolerant? Muslims seem to embrace being known as intolerant.
Christians are hugely tolerant. All kinds of disrespect and vilification of our Lord and Savior are spewed non-stop around the world and we do nothing about it, usually.
We're either super tolerant, or incredible wimps. At least Muslims are willing to kill and die over the slightest disrespect to their prophet.
The Bible instructs us to be meek. This is the disconnect between others and Christians on being mild, weak, pansy, etc.
The current definition we (English speaking persons) use these days is 'to be mild, quiet and easily imposed on'. The Biblical definition is 'Great power under control'. I pride myself in being meek, however that does not mean I will not snatch the life out of someone.
We are to love all as Christ first loved us but that does not mean we are a floormat. As for this lady at the range, I could care less. Her business, her life and maybe she feels it's time to act.
http://www.christianlibrary.org/authors/Grady_Scott/matt5-5.htm
I'll be a little disappointed if I don't at least get a brofist from St Peter.
I am expecting a running chest bump and a ice cold beer from him for my work.
SeriousStudent
10-02-14, 20:39
I am expecting a running chest bump and a ice cold beer from him for my work.
An ice-cold Shiner, of course. :cool:
An ice-cold Shiner, of course. :cool:
Is there anything else?.....:jester:
I am expecting a running chest bump and a ice cold beer from him for my work.
28836
so if you went to that range what would you do now ?
keep going not care
quite going why put yourself in the spotlight etc... ?
or ?
Is there anything else?.....:jester:
SS & Doc: A Shiner? Seriously? How about a decent beer, say something from Real Ale in Blanco?
I am particularily fond of the private lable golden ale they make for someone else.
It's name you ask? The Alamo!
We are to love all as Christ first loved us but that does not mean we are a floormat. As for this lady at the range, I could care less. Her business, her life and maybe she feels it's time to act.
I would agree that being a Christian does not mean you have to tolerate everything.
You should NOT tolerate evil, or those who do it or agree with it. I don't really know how a person or business can have it more than 2 ways: either you let every one in including Muslims or Islamic believers, or you don't. You can't "pick and choose" to serve only some Muslims who may not be violent and support terrorist, but turn away others who do.
Basically its hard to have a gray area. You either serve them all or you don't.
Moreover, I'm sure racism and discrimination continues to happen all over the US (not just gun ranges), whether legal/illegal or documented/undocumented.
In the case of this particular gun store owner, we will see if her policy will get her sued or not.
so if you went to that range what would you do now ?
keep going not care
quite going why put yourself in the spotlight etc... ?
or ?
Stop going and let the owner know why. Also would encourage my friends to stop going and to let her know why.
ramairthree
10-03-14, 18:37
I'll be a little disappointed if I don't at least get a brofist from St Peter.
Good one.
To be honest, if this was a society of guys driving around with "What would Thor Do?" instead of WWJD? bumper stickers on their cars,
we would not be having many problems with militant Muslims.
Or,
pretty much anyone for that matter.
And I do not know about fist bumps but you would totally get to party, feast, and drink with the guys based on your body count in that afterlife.
SeriousStudent
10-03-14, 20:47
SS & Doc: A Shiner? Seriously? How about a decent beer, say something from Real Ale in Blanco?
I am particularily fond of the private lable golden ale they make for someone else.
It's name you ask? The Alamo!
WWJD?
What Would Jesus Drink?
It's an interesting theological question you pose. What beer do they serve in Heaven?
I'll ask my sister Sunday morning. She's a pastor, and a beer drinker. I'll let you know what she says.
WWJD?
What Would Jesus Drink?
It's an interesting theological question you pose. What beer do they serve in Heaven?
I'll ask my sister Sunday morning. She's a pastor, and a beer drinker. I'll let you know what she says.
I've been told they drink Coors Light Monday thr Friday, and Jack Daniels on the weekends.
WWJD?
What Would Jesus Drink?
It's an interesting theological question you pose. What beer do they serve in Heaven?
I'll ask my sister Sunday morning. She's a pastor, and a beer drinker. I'll let you know what she says.
Jesus was a wineaux.
Didn't they teach you that in Sunday school?
What beer do they serve in Heaven?
If it is really Heaven, they will sevre anything you ask for!
It's an interesting theological question you pose. What beer do they serve in Heaven?
I'll ask my sister Sunday morning. She's a pastor, and a beer drinker. I'll let you know what she says.
I have it on good authority that this is all they serve.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Schlitz_Sunshine_Vitamin_Beer_-_Wisconsin_Historical_Museum_-_DSC02832.JPG
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