View Full Version : Black Rain rifles
I don't know if anyone has noticed it, or cares, but there is a dealer on gunbroker.com that is selling Black Rain rifles like crazy at what appears to be a big discount. I mean like maybe 1K$ less than the same rifle at my local Gander Mountain. I'm not a shill, I'm just reporting what I see.
I am looking for a Noveske, the only one I can afford is the Rogue Hunter which is on the cheaper than dirt site for a little over $1600. Are these Rogue Hunter rifles all Gen 1 lowers? Is that a bad thing? Why is the Rogue Hunter cheaper than the rest of the Noveske line?? Also considering a DD MK12 or a V9 with s2w barrel. I want something I can scope and hit reliably out to 200 yds & beyond.
I have CQB guns, HK91, HK93, underfolder AKs, a M14 re-weld and a Kriink SBR. It is not practical to scope any of those rifles. I just need one gun that I can use at a distance.
I know zero about optics, but I have been advised to get the Nikon M223 scope that is already set up for .223 ammo. Make sense??
What makes me never want to touch their stuff, is their guns are a mystery. In the past few years, companies that want to produce high quality rifles are being very specific about materials, processes, and quality control procedures. Black rain does none of this. Almost blatantly against the trend.
-billet is no gauge of product quality.
-if a company chooses to fill most of its precious advertizing space on "biohazard" or "zombie" it is suspect. IMO it is better used on specs; barrel materials, gas port sizes, bolt materials, qc processes.
I think you are looking in the right direction with DD and Noveske. Try BCM too.
556BlackRifle
10-06-14, 10:37
Hard to go wrong with Noveske. That said, I have a BRO billet lower and it's been great. I think with Noveske you are getting a well respected - proven system. It would be my first choice with DD a close second.
Rayrevolver
10-06-14, 11:09
Use riverofguns and find a used Noveske upper. A quick search found this for $920:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_159/1331079_Noveske_Rogue_Hunter_Upper.html
Add a complete BCM lower and you have a good rifle for $1300.
The Rogue Hunter does not have an MUR upper or Gen2/3 lower. Nothing wrong with their normal forged uppers/lowers though.
The Nikon M223 is a cheap scope relatively speaking. I went the even cheaper route and bought a used Nikon P223 3-9x for fun. There is no place to shoot beyond 100 yards where I live so I didn't want to spend a lot of money on a scope. That said, a Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12x44 is what I really wanted ($650-750).
What, exactly, is a MUR upper in the Noveske? I am 67 years old and in my day, forged was top quality and cast was the junk. Now forged isn't as good as billet, or the other way around??
So, is the Rogue Hunter a dumping place for their old Gen 1 lowers?? I prefer to stay with military type rifles, but the Rogue Hunter is billed as a "hunting rifle". I really want an Infidel, but I am just not going to pay $2500++ for an AR.
I agree with Shiz, the BRO's do not have a lot of technical data on them, but you gotta admit, this is a trick looking rifle: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=445345303
wildcard600
10-06-14, 14:26
Despite being made here locally, i've never even seen one in person at any of the shops in the area. that may be due to the price, but there is a local dealer who stocks some noveske rifles, along with tavor's and ACR's so there seems to be some market for "high end" stuff. that leads me to believe either BRO isnt as good as the company claims, or there is some other reason nobody around here sells them.
I go with BCM personally.
Skulls for your hunting rifle? I second the the DD or BCM/
Skulls for your hunting rifle? I second the the DD or BCM/
It is a well known fact that painting skulls on your rifle increases accuracy.
An excellent point. Kind of like decals on a race car.
There is nothing at all wrong with Noveske Gen 1 forged uppers and lowers. I prefer them actually. The Rogue Hunter is a nice rifle if you are looking for a stainless lightweight barrel. It makes a great coyote, varmint, etc. gun. If you are set on a Noveke, the Rogue Hunter will probably be just fine for your application.
Thanks brianc142, I need all the info I can get. I am heavily leaning toward the Rogue Hunter.
What, exactly, is a MUR upper in the Noveske? I am 67 years old and in my day, forged was top quality and cast was the junk. Now forged isn't as good as billet, or the other way around??
Other way around... Forged is stronger than Billet. The MUR is a forged upper that's designed to yield less receiver flex.... standard flat top receivers are much more flexible than an A2 fixed carry handle. The MUR was designed to strengthen the flat top.
It is a well known fact that painting skulls on your rifle increases accuracy.
But even skulls are trumped by the Restricted - Law Enforcement/Military rollmarks
Generally speaking, that much art work on the rifle should be in line with the amount of body art you are wearing. Ink on ink sort of.
The only art work I am looking for on my next rifle is the tattoo, "Noveske".
wilson1911
10-08-14, 21:27
BRO almost had me going until I started seeing those "medieval" muzzle brake thingys on their guns. I am still amazed that they seem to sell well. Most people do not even know who BCM, KAC, DD, or Noveske are when looking to purchase a black rifle. I guess it goes to show you marketing is everything. Lastly, it is pointless to even try and argue your point with people on a quality rifle. They know more than any of us do.
No doubt about it, BRO has the flashy design, it almost makes me forget the purpose of the whole thing is to hit the target.
An excellent point. Kind of like decals on a race car.
Speed holes bro, and if you say bro a lot Black Rain rifles might be the right gun for you. Other wise if your looking for a rifle from $800 to $3000 just do a general search and let the fine people here at M4 point you in the right direction
I am pretty sure I have narrowed it down to Noveske Rogue Hunter or DD MK12. Basically, I want a quality rifle that I can scope and hit reliably beyond 200 yds. As I said previously, most of the rifles I own are inherently difficult to scope, so I consider them to mostly be CQB type weapons. I need a flat top rail. Cheaper Than Dirt has the Rogue for just over $1600 and I may go for that this week or next. Tough decision, this is like getting married.
Tough decision, this is like getting married.
Black rifles won't get jealous if you have more than one. ;)
Oh, I do have black rifles. Colt AR15, HK 93, HK 91, underfolder AK's, NFA Krinkov. I am VERY politically incorrect. I sold two Colt other AR15's a four years ago, wish I had them back. I just want one more quality rifle, no junk.
sevenhelmet
10-09-14, 18:17
Black rifles won't get jealous if you have more than one. ;)
Ah, but can you AFFORD more than one? Can your marriage? ;)
I agree though, more than one is definitely the way to go.
fotomaker57
10-11-14, 22:31
Despite being made here locally, i've never even seen one in person at any of the shops in the area. that may be due to the price, but there is a local dealer who stocks some noveske rifles, along with tavor's and ACR's so there seems to be some market for "high end" stuff. that leads me to believe either BRO isnt as good as the company claims, or there is some other reason nobody around here sells them.
I go with BCM personally.
If you would like to check out their lower sometime let me know. I've got a BRO lower with a BCM upper
Really leaning toward the Rogue Hunter, may pull the trigger this coming week.
Vegasshooter
10-12-14, 14:09
Just a suggestion, but do yourself a favor and check out the BCM SPR MK12. While it is not a MK12 in the true sense of the word, it is a very, very good rifle. It has a stainless 1/8 twist match grade barrel, and several different rail/hand guard options. It uses a rifle length gas system that shoots super smooth. I personally went with the Larue 13" option. Mine is very consistently a sub MOA gun. I have shot multiple .75-.8" 5 shot groups. My very best has been .61 5 shot. I could not be happier with this gun. There are many options out there that cost plenty more. I think to get a sub MOA gas gun for under 2k with certain glass is pretty damn respectable.
Checking it out now. I'll get back to you.
OK, I am interested
But, the BCM factory web site shows no such rifle. Lots of uppers, no rifle. I can find no such rifle on gunlist.com. I would like to see NIB BCM SPR MK12 rifle for sale, link please. Thank you.
scoutfsu99
10-12-14, 14:52
I don't think they've ever offered a complete Mk12, just their uppers. I know you've found it but here's a link for others: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SPR-Mk-12-Upper-Receiver-Half-Groups-s/131.htm
Yes, I did find that and they are, I am sure, very quality uppers. BUT, what am I supposed to do with that, I ask rhetorically? I suppose I should look for a complete BCM lower. This is what I don't like about BCM, they cater to the build-it-yourself guy and that is totally cool, but that is not what I am. OK, sure, it is not rocket science for me to buy the BCM upper and the BCM lower and just mate them up and go shooting. That just isn't totally what I want to do. I don't want to have any wobble or other issues that should be cleared up on a factory complete rifle.
Scout & Vegas, I do appreciate the input and I am going now to look for a lower BCM, but I'm not red hot to do this. Maybe I will call BCM monday and see if they will do it all for me. That's an idea.
There are a lot of BCM cheerers and I like the input I have seen on this site and I will give it some study, doing that right after I post this. Thanks again.
Eurodriver
10-12-14, 16:21
This is what I don't like about BCM, they cater to the build-it-yourself guy and that is totally cool, but that is not what I am. OK, sure, it is not rocket science for me to buy the BCM upper and the BCM lower and just mate them up and go shooting. That just isn't totally what I want to do. I don't want to have any wobble or other issues that should be cleared up on a factory complete rifle.
If you are worried about "wobble" or "other issues", then why are you asking M4C for advice?
.46caliber
10-12-14, 16:27
OK, sure, it is not rocket science for me to buy the BCM upper and the BCM lower and just mate them up and go shooting.
You will do this every time you clean the rifle. It's a grand total of 2 pins, that retain themselves, and require no tools.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
wildcard600
10-12-14, 16:43
Yes, I did find that and they are, I am sure, very quality uppers. BUT, what am I supposed to do with that, I ask rhetorically? I suppose I should look for a complete BCM lower. This is what I don't like about BCM, they cater to the build-it-yourself guy and that is totally cool, but that is not what I am. OK, sure, it is not rocket science for me to buy the BCM upper and the BCM lower and just mate them up and go shooting. That just isn't totally what I want to do. I don't want to have any wobble or other issues that should be cleared up on a factory complete rifle.
Scout & Vegas, I do appreciate the input and I am going now to look for a lower BCM, but I'm not red hot to do this. Maybe I will call BCM monday and see if they will do it all for me. That's an idea.
There are a lot of BCM cheerers and I like the input I have seen on this site and I will give it some study, doing that right after I post this. Thanks again.
I think you may find that most AR's will have some wobble, even the expensive ones. Its just a nature of the AR design. If it bothers you too much just stick an accuwedge in there. I really doubt you are going to get a better fit with a complete BCM rifle than with buying a BCM upper and lower separate.
I think my issue is the same as many who have queried this blog regarding purchase of a new rifle; what is the best overall brand, what is the plus and minus of one as opposed to another. I know some of you get tired of what you view as needless re-hashing of this issue, but nonetheless it is important and is the basis of gun talk.
I am largely a proponent of the boxed, as manufactured, gun. That's just me. I tend to steer clear of customized or frankenrifles. You know why? For one reason, I have posted two auctions for differing upper/lower rifles (not necessarily on this site) for educated opinions and in both instances I got slight variations of " . . . he's probably getting rid of it because it doesn't shoot well". It happens that I agree with this assessment, if it was a tack driver, he'd keep it. Whereas with a boxed, manufactured rifle, though used, I probably would not get the same opinions.
For instance, check out the auction here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=446619267
This is virtually my dream combination , if I were to go with a combo upper/lower rifle (although I reject it because I want a flat-top rifle). This looks to me like a hell of a nice rifle, yet we all probably have our suspicions about it. It is probably exactly what it appears to be, just a rifle owner wanting to move on. What is not to like?? Price/condition/components, it is a very nice rifle. But we all have our doubts, which we would probably not have if this were a straight up Noveske or BCM. My two cents.
I just saw this is a CA compliant rifle, another reason to reject it.
scoutfsu99
10-12-14, 23:59
Wow. Ok.
Your posts make no sense, and I suspect that you may be speaking to the wrong people or reading bad gouge. An out of the box Colt 6920 (for example) with iron sights can make hits out to 500 yards if you know how to shoot.
There are many of us here, who routinely shoot with red dots out to 400.
I am pretty sure I have narrowed it down to Noveske Rogue Hunter or DD MK12. Basically, I want a quality rifle that I can scope and hit reliably beyond 200 yds. As I said previously, most of the rifles I own are inherently difficult to scope, so I consider them to mostly be CQB type weapons. I need a flat top rail. Cheaper Than Dirt has the Rogue for just over $1600 and I may go for that this week or next. Tough decision, this is like getting married.
At age 67, it is a strain to make sense.
God has blessed you and your friends who are able to shoot so well! Alas, I have to do the best I can. At 400 yds, the front sight post of my HK91 looks like a vertical log. I have never had a scoped rifle and there are some things about optics that I do not understand and I look forward to learning.
I emailed BCM last night with some questions, it looks like they prefer that to a phone call, so we will see what they have to say. Best to all and thanks for the input.
gamewarden
10-13-14, 10:17
This is a complete BCM rifle...can't your order this? I've never done it so don't know...but there it is.
http://bravocompanymfg.com/specification/bcm_precision18.php
gamewarden
10-13-14, 10:22
Here you go...search over! Forgot G and R sells a BCM complete rifles/carbines. The non stainless barrel version is $1380...you definitely won't miss stainless at only 200 yards.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=752-780
Thanks for the links, gamewarden, I had seen the BCM Recce 16 and it is indeed a nice rifle. The Precision 18 seems to be pretty much the same rifle with 18" barrel and different rail. Both weapons are very nice, still reading the specs. I had not heard of G&R before, I am checking their site. Thanks for input.
That BCM sure looks like a sweet setup. If I only had the funds....
It does indeed look good. Their bronze rifle is a looker. I've got the funds and pretty much the wife's OK (I think). This will be my last hurrah re guns, so looking hard at all brands.
MorphCross
10-14-14, 01:01
You should be quite happy with the Noveske you are looking at.
I know zero about optics, but I have been advised to get the Nikon M223 scope that is already set up for .223 ammo. Make sense??
When it comes to optics, basing your choice on an optic with preset holdovers for a load is generally a bad idea, unless you know that that load is what you'll only ever shoot. You are far better off buying a scope that just offers ranging feature such as Mil-dots and keeping a range card for the load you are shooting either printed out and laminated or saved onto your smart phone if you are so inclined.
Thanks, morph, stayed up late last night doing my research and I was on line with Cheaper Than Dirt which has the Rogue Hunter at $1603, a total steal. I have veered into looking at other makers and it is a tough decision, but I really, really like the polygonal barrel, like my HK P7.
Regarding optics, I have a ton of Israeli 55grain FMJ and that is all I will be shooting. I fully realize this is far from match grade ammo but, then, I am not a match grade shooter. I probably won't be getting a scope for a few months, while I pay the rifle off, so I will have time for research. I will get on the optics thread of this blog and maybe post questions later on. Thanks to all, if I didn't have all this input I would not feel good about the decision.
I bought the Rogue Hunter yesterday from cheaperthandirt.com. I did a lot of research and I think I made the right decision. Can't wait to get it.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.