View Full Version : Battle Rifle Company -- another evaluation by Tuohy
This is hard to even read.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/07/battle-rifle-company/
Some highlights:
About a hundred rounds later, we encountered another problem – a broken charging handle. I haven’t seen a whole lot of broken charging handles, and especially not after 900 rounds and hardly any manipulation of the charging handle (almost all reloads used the bolt catch). The break was at the forward most portion of the charging handle, where it fits over the gas key on the bolt carrier.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/disintegrator.jpg
Another problem we encountered was that the muzzle device quickly began to fracture and by 1200 rounds eventually separated from the rifle
and my favorite:
Chris told me about a Marine sniper who had a problem with his issued rifle. None of the Marine armorers could fix it, so he was given permission by his commanding officer to buy a commercial rifle. The Marine bought a BR4 and was allowed to deploy with it. Chris told me that the sniper made “twenty or thirty kills” with the rifle.
:fie:
I've followed BRC since Andrew Tuohy's first article and I too wanted to see them succeed. I no longer feel this way; a company owner willing to fabricate/pass along asinine statements (lies) about confirmed kills to bolster his product is a nearly sure sign that he is willing to sham elswhere, e.g. rifle component specs. IIRC the owner made similar statements a year ago, but I chalked it up to misguided boasting born of inexperiencemand/or watching too many B grade war flicks from the 80's and/or bad advice. A year of constructive advice later and he sticks to the silly testimonial. No thanks.
I really thought it was going to be a bunch of fluff, but I read it while I had coffee this morning. Holy cow, what an honest and somewhat scathing evaluation.
It's awesome he ended with such a BS story from the rep. The sad part is that there may have been a legitimate customer that made up that story and the rep believed him.
It's awesome he ended with such a BS story from the rep. The sad part is that there may have been a legitimate customer that made up that story and the rep believed him.
I'm really torn as to what is worse: Them outright fabricating the story, or them being so stupid and naive to believe such a tale.
The more I think about it, combined with the fact they apparently can't even use Google--let alone take an armorers class, think it might be the latter. But you know, this is also the company that said:
Each Battle Rifle is put together by a Master Armorer with years of experience. Proprietary components are fabricated to tight tolerances so that the fit is cleaner and enhances functionality. Upper and lower Receivers are matched and fitted to maintain tight fit. All of the internal components are buffed, filed, polished or smoothed to make them fit perfectly.
If Bushhamster is making you look like amateur hour, it's probably time to pack your bag and close up shop.
A really good review. Also, thanks for turning me on to the site. Good informative articles to be read there.
"On a related note, Chris told me about a Marine sniper who had a problem with his issued rifle. None of the Marine armorers could fix it, so he was given permission by his commanding officer to buy a commercial rifle. The Marine bought a BR4 and was allowed to deploy with it. Chris told me that the sniper made “twenty or thirty kills” with the rifle. - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/07/battle-rifle-company/#sthash.dDcif58s.dpuf"
Ok, I've heard enough. Jesus. And this was after he KNEW his words would be on the internet. Amazing.
If he would have just left out that statement I think most of us would have been impressed with the steps they're taking to improve their product.
"On a related note, Chris told me about a Marine sniper who had a problem with his issued rifle. None of the Marine armorers could fix it, so he was given permission by his commanding officer to buy a commercial rifle. The Marine bought a BR4 and was allowed to deploy with it. Chris told me that the sniper made “twenty or thirty kills” with the rifle. - See more at: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/07/battle-rifle-company/#sthash.dDcif58s.dpuf"
Ok, I've heard enough. Jesus. And this was after he KNEW his words would be on the internet. Amazing.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/disintegrator.jpg
"The “Disintegrator” name was unintentionally ironic."
If we're lucky a small market downturn will flush some of the turds down the memory hole....
I loved one of the comments:
These guys area a complete joke. The worst of the worst. They don't even deserve credit for trying to "improve" their product. I live in Houston and I see gun stores trying to sell these
things and they are all $1700 and up. Their .308 rifles are over $2200. If they had PSA prices I'd tell them to try harder. Since they charge Larue prices, Id tell them to **** themselves.
I loved one of the comments:
These guys area a complete joke. The worst of the worst. They don't even deserve credit for trying to "improve" their product. I live in Houston and I see gun stores trying to sell these
things and they are all $1700 and up. Their .308 rifles are over $2200. If they had PSA prices I'd tell them to try harder. Since they charge Larue prices, Id tell them to **** themselves.
So true
bluejackets92fs
10-07-14, 14:45
This was an experiment- I've had a couple hundred folks said this was cool, I have one Federal Agency that wants to use this rifle just the way it was next week(even after I offered to change it) for training because they believe it looks intimidating, and I have a handful of people who dont like it- I would suppose at this point it is a matter of personal taste. If you like it fine- if you don't-fine. Either way- this rifle performs and does the job well.
P.S. I was considering a different rail on this, but after I was approached by this Federal Agency, I decided to work on a shroud on this which would add an extra layer of protection to the tube.
Lets not forget that this is the company that also said this about their improper use of hand guards on their rifles.
Remember, boys & girls- Buy the rifle. Not the story
Remember, boys & girls- Buy the rifle. Not the storyThis! If you want a firearm with lots of confirmed kills, buy a Hi-Point..
mastiffhound
10-07-14, 20:25
After watching new companies pop up and then get a shill to come here telling tales of "fit and finish", "super secret special assembly", "better alloys", and (this type of crap I hate the most)"We had our gun tested by a Navy SEAL that wore a Green Beret while working with Force Recon Marines while jumping out of a AC-130 with the 101st Rangers" I've decided that I won't trust any new companies and know that I could miss some new innovative stuff. In the long run that means I have a much much lower chance of getting screwed.
This is another example of how insane and ludicrous the AR market has become. The fact that these guys showed up with probably what they thought were their best built ARs and failed so fantastically should be the last nail in their coffin. If you can't get a flash hider to stay together then it's time to hang it up. People get upset when they come here and start a thread on a new company's AR they just bought and are told by the majority here that the build quality, materials, or lack of specs isn't up to snuff. This article/story/review is why.
I would never have even considered purchasing this POS. The reviewer has my respect for giving them a chance though.
TexanInCali
10-07-14, 20:46
Remember, boys & girls- Buy the rifle. Not the story
Couldn't be put any more clearly.
That shredded muzzle device tells you everything you need to know about this product. Frankly, I'm not much interested in hearing about the changes they've made. Anyone that would put out the garbage they presented at shot show is not anyone I'd want to business with. To boot, their big changes were for shit as their product is still a mess.
Couldn't be put any more clearly.
That shredded muzzle device tells you everything you need to know about this product. Frankly, I'm not much interested in hearing about the changes they've made. Anyone that would put out the garbage they presented at shot show is not anyone I'd want to business with. To boot, their big changes were for shit as their product is still a mess.
10-4... I saw the stuff they had at shot. I had the same reaction as the author of that story.
justin_247
10-07-14, 22:18
I really thought it was going to be a bunch of fluff, but I read it while I had coffee this morning. Holy cow, what an honest and somewhat scathing evaluation.
It's awesome he ended with such a BS story from the rep. The sad part is that there may have been a legitimate customer that made up that story and the rep believed him.
I would never have even considered purchasing this POS. The reviewer has my respect for giving them a chance though.
Andrew Tuohy is one of the most honest, knowledgeable, and detail-oriented AR gurus on the internet. And he has many more awesome interests, to boot.
I strongly encourage everybody to subscribe to Vuurwapen Blog on Facebook and add his blog to your list of blog subscriptions.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/
The thing I picked up most from the article is how Andrew stated that 9310 is a better material for bolts than C158. I have heard this from a few others in the know.
TexanInCali
10-08-14, 00:18
Andrew Tuohy is one of the most honest, knowledgeable, and detail-oriented AR gurus on the internet. And he has many more awesome interests, to boot.
I strongly encourage everybody to subscribe to Vuurwapen Blog on Facebook and add his blog to your list of blog subscriptions.
http://vuurwapenblog.com/
Thanks for sharing. I hadn't seen that blog before. He doesn't seem to post very often, but some of his posts are just outstanding.
I checked out his very informative muzzle device test. Great stuff. http://vuurwapenblog.com/2014/01/12/ar-15-muzzle-device-comparison/
MikeDawg46L
10-08-14, 08:44
This! If you want a firearm with lots of confirmed kills, buy a Hi-Point..
No one else going to comment on the brilliance of this post? I'm still laughing...
railpig314
10-08-14, 09:17
I don't think any Marine would trust his life to this kind of junk. If a issued rifle did not work and an armorer could not fix it, they would issue a new rifle.
This is typical of the market right now. Guys will say anything to sell junk. It's hard to compete with all of the decent manufacturers now. People are stupid enough to buy anything because it cost more. I have learned my lesson about AR-15 type rifles. You really get what you pay for (sometimes in experience). A little research on the rifles goes a long way.
Junk is still junk, no matter how you brand it.......
jerrysimons
10-08-14, 10:06
So they notified Brownell's about the results of this test? LOL!
Deluded jokers! Ripping off ignorant gun store commandos, who then go around and intolerably tout the superiority of their $2500 crap. :suicide:
Everyone is hung up on the stupid war story but the obvious worse part of this whole train wreck is the gas port size. These guys decided to go into business building rifles and yet never bothered to find out what a close to reasonably sized gas port for their barrel was. They could have just logged on here and asked.
Everyone is hung up on the stupid war story but the obvious worse part of this whole train wreck is the gas port size. These guys decided to go into business building rifles and yet never bothered to find out what a close to reasonably sized gas port for their barrel was. They could have just logged on here and asked.
Pretty much that's the entire answer - there's enough information here that I know I could go into business selling slightly overpriced but utterly functional rifles sourcing parts from elsewhere if I invested in the mill/lathe/metrology tools needed... they have the right idea, but started spending money before they should have been in the 'gather more information' phase, and it looks like most of the stuff they've sold thus far isn't working that great.
Really enjoy Andrew's articles and this one didn't disappoint.
BRC clearly did zero R&D on these 'improvements'. CH self destructing at 900 rounds is one for the books.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/f8/f87c9c55ce6812edcbaac366122f8890ee3608c8aba47135e4c22815c0260dcb.jpg
with the wealth of knowledge out there in the ar world there is no reason for these company's to put out that kind of unreliable junk. look how companies like bcm, colt, dd, lmt, kac, or noveske have gotten to be top tier ar's? they make a damn good rifles with good customer support. the internet can be their friend or in this case enemy.
with the wealth of knowledge out there in the ar world there is no reason for these company's to put out that kind of unreliable junk. look how companies like bcm, colt, dd, lmt, kac, or noveske have gotten to be top tier ar's? they make a damn good rifles with good customer support. the internet can be their friend or in this case enemy.
Yeah I'm not sure I want to get anything from a company that is too lazy/arrogant/stupid to simply Google something...
The article claimed it had too large of a gas port, which lead to short stroking. How would that happen? I'd expect too big of a port to result in the BCG slamming back against the end of the buffer tube fairly hard, rather than not going back far enough.
dramabeats
10-09-14, 23:17
The article claimed it had too large of a gas port, which lead to short stroking. How would that happen? I'd expect too big of a port to result in the BCG slamming back against the end of the buffer tube fairly hard, rather than not going back far enough.
It wasn't short stroking, what you mentioned is what actually happened, the bolt was moving too fast to allow proper extraction of the spent casing.
The article claimed it had too large of a gas port, which lead to short stroking. How would that happen? I'd expect too big of a port to result in the BCG slamming back against the end of the buffer tube fairly hard, rather than not going back far enough.
Too much gas can cause short stroking too. Allow me to give you the short hand: too much gas can cause attempted early unlocking. If the rifle attempts extraction before the chamber pressure is reduced enough (because the brass is fully expanded to the chamber at high pressure) it can stutter in cycling. The bulk of that first gas impulse was wasted on a case that wasn't moving and by the time the chamber pressure has reduced enough for unlocking/extraction there isn't enough ass left to complete the cycle, causing a short stroke.
What many [unknowing] people do at that point is actually enlarge the gas port and further exacerbate the issue. So yes, both too much and too little gas can cause short stroking.
jerrysimons
10-09-14, 23:55
Too much gas can cause short stroking too. Allow me to give you the short hand: too much gas can cause attempted early unlocking. If the rifle attempts extraction before the chamber pressure is reduced enough (because the brass is fully expanded to the chamber at high pressure) it can stutter in cycling. The bulk of that first gas impulse was wasted on a case that wasn't moving and by the time the chamber pressure has reduced enough for unlocking/extraction there isn't enough ass left to complete the cycle, causing a short stroke.
What many [unknowing] people do at that point is actually enlarge the gas port and further exacerbate the issue. So yes, both too much and too little gas can cause short stroking.
Very insightful! Thanks.
elephantrider
10-10-14, 01:44
Everyone is hung up on the stupid war story but the obvious worse part of this whole train wreck is the gas port size. These guys decided to go into business building rifles and yet never bothered to find out what a close to reasonably sized gas port for their barrel was. They could have just logged on here and asked.
I saw several people in the comments section for the article, and now here make a huge deal out of the gas port size. The article states that the barrel was a mid-length gas system. I assume it was a 16" barrel. Article also states that the BRC gunsmith stated that the gas port is/was 0.082" (saying it is and actually verifying it are admittedly two different things). As far as I can tell while it is larger than normal, 0.082" isn't an extremely over sized port for a 16" mid-length barrel. I see 0.073-.079" from very reputable gun/barrel maker's 16" Mids all the time. If it was a carbine gas system, then yes 0.082" is considerably larger than the standard .062" port. I don't understand all of the twisted panties over 0.082"? Yes, a little too big, but not enough to account for all the malfunctions. I would guess that the port actually started larger than claimed, or eroded to a larger size during the test firing.
Also, no one gives any credit for the bolt lasting 10k rounds? Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember reading anything about the bolt cracking?
Reagans Rascals
10-10-14, 02:14
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/f8/f87c9c55ce6812edcbaac366122f8890ee3608c8aba47135e4c22815c0260dcb.jpg
glorious..... this sums it up completely... Conky would not approve of this company
Boba Fett v2
10-10-14, 02:18
A gun dealer friend of mine, who shall remain nameless, went to the last Shot Show and told me he was in negotiations with BRC to sell some of their guns and asked me my opinion of the company. I flat out told him to not walk, but run away from that deal. I told him to go ahead on Google the company, and if he didn't want to lose money he'd steer clear. Didn't listen to me. Saw a bunch of their guns being sold on his web site... and always "in stock". Most likely he cut the deal before he researched anything or asked for my personal opinion. Sad face.
http://imageshack.com/a/img537/9955/5iP0Ty.jpg
Too much gas can cause short stroking too. Allow me to give you the short hand: too much gas can cause attempted early unlocking. If the rifle attempts extraction before the chamber pressure is reduced enough (because the brass is fully expanded to the chamber at high pressure) it can stutter in cycling. The bulk of that first gas impulse was wasted on a case that wasn't moving and by the time the chamber pressure has reduced enough for unlocking/extraction there isn't enough ass left to complete the cycle, causing a short stroke.
What many [unknowing] people do at that point is actually enlarge the gas port and further exacerbate the issue. So yes, both too much and too little gas can cause short stroking.That makes sense, thanks for the explanation.
I saw several people in the comments section for the article, and now here make a huge deal out of the gas port size. The article states that the barrel was a mid-length gas system. I assume it was a 16" barrel. Article also states that the BRC gunsmith stated that the gas port is/was 0.082" (saying it is and actually verifying it are admittedly two different things). As far as I can tell while it is larger than normal, 0.082" isn't an extremely over sized port for a 16" mid-length barrel. I see 0.073-.079" from very reputable gun/barrel maker's 16" Mids all the time. If it was a carbine gas system, then yes 0.082" is considerably larger than the standard .062" port. I don't understand all of the twisted panties over 0.082"? Yes, a little too big, but not enough to account for all the malfunctions. I would guess that the port actually started larger than claimed, or eroded to a larger size during the test firing.
Also, no one gives any credit for the bolt lasting 10k rounds? Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember reading anything about the bolt cracking?
Yeah, but that's still a 12% increase over the low end and nearly a 4% increase over the HIGH end. So it's pretty big if their numbers are true. Plus you must have missed the fact that these barrels have a "cryogenic treatment." That shit lasts like 700 million rounds, there's no way that gas port eroded. :cool:
I saw several people in the comments section for the article, and now here make a huge deal out of the gas port size. The article states that the barrel was a mid-length gas system. I assume it was a 16" barrel. Article also states that the BRC gunsmith stated that the gas port is/was 0.082" (saying it is and actually verifying it are admittedly two different things). As far as I can tell while it is larger than normal, 0.082" isn't an extremely over sized port for a 16" mid-length barrel. I see 0.073-.079" from very reputable gun/barrel maker's 16" Mids all the time. If it was a carbine gas system, then yes 0.082" is considerably larger than the standard .062" port. I don't understand all of the twisted panties over 0.082"? Yes, a little too big, but not enough to account for all the malfunctions. I would guess that the port actually started larger than claimed, or eroded to a larger size during the test firing.
Also, no one gives any credit for the bolt lasting 10k rounds? Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember reading anything about the bolt cracking?
Yeah, but that's still a 12% increase over the low end and nearly a 4% increase over the HIGH end. So it's pretty big if their numbers are true. Plus you must have missed the fact that these barrels have a "cryogenic treatment." That shit lasts like 700 million rounds, there's no way that gas port eroded. :cool:
Careful... Flow isn't linear. The radius term in an equation for "fluid/gas leaking out of a hole in a pipe" is always to some power so even a small change in the radius will affect the flow through the hole significantly. A 4% change in size will yield >>4% change in flow.
Careful... Flow isn't linear. The radius term in an equation for "fluid/gas leaking out of a hole in a pipe" is always to some power so even a small change in the radius will affect the flow through the hole significantly. A 4% change in size will yield >>4% change in flow.
Like you said, pie are square.
I havent watched it, but Hickok45 just did a video on these rifles.
I havent watched it, but Hickok45 just did a video on these rifles.
I skipped through it. Per his description he's put ~400 rounds through it. The rail came loose at one point. Later he is quoted as saying, "shoot it 10k times or 20k times and maybe something would be revealed. I don't know."
My thought was, 'oh you'll find out!' :D
Boba Fett v2
10-10-14, 16:42
I skipped through it. Per his description he's put ~400 rounds through it. The rail came loose at one point. Later he is quoted as saying, "shoot it 10k times or 20k times and maybe something would be revealed. I don't know."
My thought was, 'oh you'll find out!' :D
It's really bad when every example they send out for T&E/review something breaks on it.
Like you said, pie are square.
Pie are not square. Pie are round. Cornbread are square
Pie are not square. Pie are round. Cornbread are square
Pie is deliciouser too, just saying.
Ha
...and more tactical. Folks will always pie a corner, but no one ever cornbreads one
Grand58742
10-11-14, 10:44
I like reading Tuohy's reviews because he doesn't pull any punches with them. If it's a turd, he's going to tell you it stinks.
Bravo to him for not being "that guy" in the typical firearms reviews.
It's really bad when every example they send out for T&E/review something breaks on it.
This. How is it even possible to do this? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. You'd figure they'd get lucky and send out at least one that didn't have a failure of some sort, especially considering that most testers won't even fire 500 rounds through the gun.
I like reading Tuohy's reviews because he doesn't pull any punches with them. If it's a turd, he's going to tell you it stinks.
Bravo to him for not being "that guy" in the typical firearms reviews.
Especially compared to, "reviews" like, "Is there a cleaner that can BREAKTHROUGH all of this crud?" :rolleyes:
SilverBullet432
10-11-14, 12:52
This is what happens when a random goon with machines decides to build weapons. Only a danger to the public.
Boba Fett v2
10-11-14, 13:15
Lets not forget that this is the company that also said this about their improper use of hand guards on their rifles.
An exposed gas tube looks intimidating. How could I forget that. If there's any truth the .gov agency considering the rifle solely for that "feature", then it must've been the janitor (politically correct: sanitation specialist) that said that.
I took one of Battle Rifle Company's rifles on my last deployment. I had to wait until we were probably 15-20min into a good TIC (L-Shaped Ambush, Complex w/IDF and SAF) before I could officially declare we were in a "Battle", which is the only time these rifles really shine. Probably why it didn't do well on the range test they did here. You don't put Baby in the corner, right? Well you don't break out a BRC rifle unless it's for a battle. I wouldn't be able to tell you how many CUNFURRRRMED KILLSSSSS I had with that holy grail of gunnery, not only because it's so secret I'd have to kill you after....but they're still counting EKIA bodies strewn about the Hindu Kush from that day. God...if I'd been stuck with some crappy Mk12 or M4, I'd probably be dead right now and Hillary would be president. Whew, thanks Battle Rifle Company!!!
In the old thread Buttle Raffle Gay is mentioned as a "former Special Operations Veteran/Combat Vet" which I remember being on their old website and postings elsewhere. I'm curious, what do you fine gents suppose would happen if someone with a little vengeance and a lot of free time (me) dug into the truth of that? Maybe it's time for BRC to call Barbara Streisand and ask her how to get archived/cached web content removed?
ScatmanCrothers
10-11-14, 14:14
Chris and his company are gluttons for punishment I guess. Bust into the market claiming best ever only to fail on one of the biggest stages in the industry. Then you keep pushing and pushing trying to get recognition only to fail of your own accord each time.
The gas port size, disintegrating flash hider, out of spec and broken charging handles, short rail/exposed gas tube, and incredible number of failures during testing show just how much effort was put into each part/sourcing of parts and level of r&d. How in the hell do you show up to a day of testing with a rifle that does that? Seriously, how can someone be so out of touch with the reality of their product? No better than chinese airsoft garbage. Actually I don't know if that is an accurate representation because I've seen china made flash hiders stand up to semi-auto firing schedules without turning into shrapnel at least.
Looks like BRC sent a rifle to hickok45.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68LkcwUbA90&list=UUvB3solmhqtgDeLpD-yTtfg
I like Hickok, but I watched the review just to see the ejection pattern as Tuohy's review was obviously more thorough. Looked to me like the brass was going forward fairly consistently as it did in Tuohy's review, but it wasn't easy to see.
I was sure wanting Hickok's BRC rifle to fail in the video. For as much as they are charging for each rifle,
they must be paying retail for the parts to build em. I had read Tuohy's Shot show article on BRC and was
surprised when I got the email on his update report. He laid all the cards on the table. BRC must have built
1 of a kind good gun and sent it to Hickok45 for T&E and media market repair. Cause everyone knows Hickok......
Who the heck is an Andrew Tuohy? Some dude from nowhere Alaska? LOLOL
Yeah, but that's still a 12% increase over the low end and nearly a 4% increase over the HIGH end. So it's pretty big if their numbers are true. Plus you must have missed the fact that these barrels have a "cryogenic treatment." That shit lasts like 700 million rounds, there's no way that gas port eroded. :cool:
Actually, area is a 26.18% increase over the low and a 7.74% increase over the high which gives a better indication of how much extra gas is getting through.
Pie are not square. Pie are round. Cornbread are square
Rats, you're right.
elephantrider
10-12-14, 03:37
Actually, area is a 26.18% increase over the low and a 7.74% increase over the high which gives a better indication of how much extra gas is getting through.
Yes, correct on the area calcs. I'm certainly no expert, but I think I remember an expert on here stating that the change in gas flow is not linear with changes in gas port diameter. A 10% in crease in gas port diameter does not necessarily equate to 10% more gas flow and drive for example.
Eurodriver
10-12-14, 07:44
Why do people give this shit the time of day, let alone buy it?
There are so many proven brands out there for LESS money - but everyone wants the newest tactical shit. What a bunch of morons. I don't fault BRC at all. In fact, they're pretty good at this. Market tactical firearms to a bunch of fat ass internet commandos and maximize profit by eliminating quality control.
Anyone who buys shit like this not only deserves to be separated from his money for a crap weapon. He's earned it.
Boba Fett v2
10-12-14, 09:23
Looks like BRC sent a rifle to hickok45.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68LkcwUbA90&list=UUvB3solmhqtgDeLpD-yTtfg
You didn't hear the loud crack of lightning and thunder at 1:22 before hickok45 kicked off the review? That was the sound of the AR15 gods expressing their disappointment and disapproval.
You didn't hear the loud crack of lightning and thunder at 1:22 before hickok45 kicked off the review? That was the sound of the AR15 gods expressing their disappointment and disapproval.
I cringed. Lightning scares the hell out of me
Actually, area is a 26.18% increase over the low and a 7.74% increase over the high which gives a better indication of how much extra gas is getting through.
Ahhhh, area calculations. Even better, that port is even more ridiculous than I thought!
ETA: The thing I love about this forum is that even threads about rifles that have no business existing turn technical and educational. That's a rare thing on the Internet.
At this point I would probably never buy one, ever in the future, but it is nice to see it looks that they're making an honest effort to improve their product.
I loved one of the comments:
These guys area a complete joke. The worst of the worst. They don't even deserve credit for trying to "improve" their product. I live in Houston and I see gun stores trying to sell these
things and they are all $1700 and up. Their .308 rifles are over $2200. If they had PSA prices I'd tell them to try harder. Since they charge Larue prices, Id tell them to **** themselves.
Can't blame them for trying to copy the LWRCi business model. Sell complete garbage by lying and list it at a premium price.
Looks like these guns suck even harder than LWRCi however.
Can't blame them for trying to copy the LWRCi business model. Sell complete garbage by lying and list it at a premium price.
Looks like these guns suck even harder than LWRCi however.
I call it, "celebrity jeans" pricing.
You know, a regular pair of jeans, all torn up, and charge $5k a pair. A movie star will buy them. Must be a helluva profit margin.
BufordTJustice
10-13-14, 10:57
I call it, "celebrity jeans" pricing.
You know, a regular pair of jeans, all torn up, and charge $5k a pair. A movie star will buy them. Must be a helluva profit margin.
An even better profit margin after you wear them for 6 months before you sell them. ;)
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