View Full Version : South Carolina trooper arrested for shooting unarmed motorist
http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/09/26/dash-cam-video-shows-police-shooting?videoId=344094083
Hey There,
I looked over the forums and haven't seen this discussed. Several things that struck me here:
1) Horrible marksmanship (thankfully).
2) What was the cop thinking? I don't think he woke up with any sort of malice that morning, but I'm shocked how quickly he went from 0 to 60.
3) As an armed citizen I would not have been able to enunciate a threat that would have justified that degree of force.
4) How do I keep this from happening to me - other than making sure I wear my seatbelt? Serious question.
These are the type of incidents that erode trust and confidence in the police - whether it was justified or not. The perception is bd. This is why some folks are scared of cops. Thank god for dashboard cameras.
http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/09/26/dash-cam-video-shows-police-shooting?videoId=344094083
Hey There,
I looked over the forums and haven't seen this discussed. Several things that struck me here:
1) Horrible marksmanship (thankfully).
2) What was the cop thinking? I don't think he woke up with any sort of malice that morning, but I'm shocked how quickly he went from 0 to 60.
3) As an armed citizen I would not have been able to enunciate a threat that would have justified that degree of force.
4) How do I keep this from happening to me - other than making sure I wear my seatbelt? Serious question.
These are the type of incidents that erode trust and confidence in the police - whether it was justified or not. The perception is bd. This is why some folks are scared of cops. Thank god for dashboard cameras.
It was not justified, though the man might have exercised a bit more deliberation before just reaching back into the vehicle, I would have explained to the Trooper just what I needed to do to get him my documentation, aside from that the trooper should be sent to prison for the obvious...There is another video making the rounds in which an entire family is subjected to an extremely over aggressive reaction by police who had pulled them over for a "seat belt violation!" In my opinion, that to should be resulting in the termination of employment to the officers involved, however it won't be...
That joker went from 0 to 100, and fortunately can't shoot for shit.
Numb nuts was still firing at the guy when his hands were up. That shooting was the most ridiculous video I've seen in a long time.
Can you just IMAGINE if a fatal round had hit the victim when his HANDS WERE UP. The NBC racists would be high fiving and having a catered office party had that happened.
"3) As an armed citizen I would not have been able to enunciate a threat that would have justified that degree of force."
That's why he was arrested.
This was discussed within another thread. However I'll state the same thing I did in the previous discussion. Trooper was wrong, he was charged, released on bond until the legal process plays out.................which is exactly the process that needs to happen.
I don't know what else can be said other than he used poor judgment in his actions, and is being held accountable for his actions. What do you want?????
Well, as I said, I wanted some sort of guidance on how to keep this stuff from happening to me or someone else. Not interested in turning the knife in this officer, just want some context and guidance.
1. Don't hop out of the vehicle on a traffic stop. 2. Communicate..."Ok officer, my D.L. is in the truck, is it ok if I turn around and get it". 3. Hope you don't get pulled over by an idiot.
There's no magic answer. I try to look at it like a reciprocal situation. If you're calm, chill, polite, easy going, most of the time the other person is going to be the same. There are always outliers that **** up the curve though....
skijunkie55
10-08-14, 13:04
When I get pulled over (once since getting my CPL)
*cop comes up to door.* At night, I already have my interior lights on so he can see me the entire time.
"Good afternoon/evening officer, just to let you know I am a CPL holder and I am / am not carrying on my person. I'm going to reach into my glove box to get my license and registration, and am going to reach into my back pocket for my wallet."
Slow and calm movements.
I don't think I'm obligated to tell him I have a gun, but the second he pulls me over he knows from looking me up.
Be respectful and not one of those "I know my rights and I'm going to be an a-hole" people.
And obviously don't jump out of the car like the young man in the OP. Bad move all together.
When I get pulled over (once since getting my CPL)
*cop comes up to door.* At night, I already have my interior lights on so he can see me the entire time.
"Good afternoon/evening officer, just to let you know I am a CPL holder and I am / am not carrying on my person. I'm going to reach into my glove box to get my license and registration, and am going to reach into my back pocket for my wallet."
Slow and calm movements.
I don't think I'm obligated to tell him I have a gun, but the second he pulls me over he knows from looking me up.
Be respectful and not one of those "I know my rights and I'm going to be an a-hole" people.
And obviously don't jump out of the car like the young man in the OP. Bad move all together.
Similar, except I keep my documents out under the sunshade. CHL License, Drivers License, Insurance Papers, Mil ID, VA Card. all of it.
I am real polite, If asked, I will confirm location of the weapons. Then I politely ask or say can I do this, my papers are in the car.
No problems so far.
Real issue for me will happen one day when I get called into Ft Sam or BAMC and still have a weapon in the box. $200.00 downtown seems like minimal trouble.
"3) As an armed citizen I would not have been able to enunciate a threat that would have justified that degree of force."
That's why he was arrested.
This was discussed within another thread. However I'll state the same thing I did in the previous discussion. Trooper was wrong, he was charged, released on bond until the legal process plays out.................which is exactly the process that needs to happen.
I don't know what else can be said other than he used poor judgment in his actions, and is being held accountable for his actions. What do you want?????
This sums it up nicely.
Regardless of the outcome of the criminal case, the Trooper needs to find another line of work.
Belmont31R
10-08-14, 22:23
Be careful. Ive been told the bringing up the Texas law about defense against LEO is a banable offense.
I don't volunteer any information about being armed- period. If they ask I will tell them as required by law. Otherwise it's license, registration and that's it.
Not giving an excuse for the trooper but I think this might have been a PTSD incident. He was involved in a gunfight a year prior and actually received a medal for it. Looking at the video it seems like maybe this guy needed some mental health help prior to this. I just have a hard time seeing an experienced officer going from 0 to full on shooting that quickly and over something fairy common.
Long ago I used to get out of the vehicle just to show I had nothing on me and wasn't going to run or anything. Worked fine until mid80s or do and an officer told me in a friendly chat it is more comfortable for him if I remain seated and don't move around a lot before he gets up to the door. So that's what I do and have never had a bad encounter on the road. It seems most officers I have encountered for speeding stops are happy to deal with "just a speeder" that admits he is wrong and accepts responsibility. I'm amazed when I hear folks complain how they argued the ticket so vigorously and the officer wrote them up anyway.
When bad apples like this get removed then things are working.
vicious_cb
10-09-14, 01:39
Not giving an excuse for the trooper but I think this might have been a PTSD incident. He was involved in a gunfight a year prior and actually received a medal for it. Looking at the video it seems like maybe this guy needed some mental health help prior to this. I just have a hard time seeing an experienced officer going from 0 to full on shooting that quickly and over something fairy common.
Well they better double and triple check if his last shoot was legit seeing how much of an idiot this guy is. Seems like they hand out medals for anything these days.
1. Don't hop out of the vehicle on a traffic stop. 2. Communicate..."Ok officer, my D.L. is in the truck, is it ok if I turn around and get it". 3. Hope you don't get pulled over by an idiot.
There's no magic answer. I try to look at it like a reciprocal situation. If you're calm, chill, polite, easy going, most of the time the other person is going to be the same. There are always outliers that **** up the curve though....
All of that.
People have to remember that while they are looking at the news about events like Ferguson and watching youtube videos of cops that were a bit "too quick" on the draw, cops are watching videos of LEOs that just weren't fast enough on the "pickup" and paid hard for it. The first time any LEO attends a police funeral, it is a certainty that every single one of them vows "this won't happen to me, my family won't be subjected to this."
The bottom line is cops don't want to be shot and nobody wants to be shot by a cop. I've been forced to deal with some "spooky rookies" a couple times who got worse once I handed them my CWP with my DL. I really had to calmly "talk them down" while letting them retain control of the situation.
Polite. Calm. Sensible.
These are the things everyone needs to be doing when involved with any official police interaction. Confrontation leads to confrontation and quick furtive movements are easily misinterpreted. That said, even thought I don't believe the LEO in this case had any genuine malice, and once he realized he ****ed up he then moved to trying to help the guy in question, but he escalated when he should have assessed.
All that said, "seat belt" stops should be a friendly warning, same as a tail light out.
I don't volunteer any information about being armed- period. If they ask I will tell them as required by law. Otherwise it's license, registration and that's it.
I don't tell them, I just hand them my CWP with my DL, they are going to find out in a few minutes regardless. I just leave my hands on the wheel from that point and listen to what they want me to do. Any questions get short and polite answers.
I don't do the whole "I'm lawfully armed" speech on first contact because honestly they aren't really listening to everything you are saying yet in most cases and then suddenly they hear the word "gun" or "firearm" and you just took them to Defcon 2.
Polite. Calm. Sensible.
That is a great way to deal with everyone you meet.
Last year I was in a similar situation in SC. I was pulled over by a trooper for speeding and with my hands on the wheel when he asked me for DL and registration I told him I had a CCP and that my weapon was in the console with my registration. He was pretty cool and said that's fine go ahead and retrieve the registration. I gave them to him, he looked them over quickly, gave them back to me and said to slow down and thanks for the heads up about my CCP and the weapon in my console. Very similar situation while in college except NC didn't have Concealed Carry back in the late 80's Pulled over by a NC trooper on a country road at about 1 am. I had my weapon under my seat. I know it was stupid. I didn't say a word this time since it definitely was illegal to conceal it. Open carry was fine. My reason for doing so was the circumstances. Completely dark country road, 1 am in the morning and no one around but he and I. He saw the pistol rug on the floor of the back seat and asked me back to his car. I went and while he was checking my DL and registration he asked me why I didn't tell him about the weapon. Easy answer I said. Look at where we are and there is no one around at all. I don't know your frame of mind and this is a dangerous situation for you. I didn't want to add to that any more no knowing how you'd react so I thought it best to not say a word. I know what I'm not going to do but I do not know what you are going to do. His reply was that made a whole lot of sense considering the circumstances. We BS'd a bit after that and he let me go with a warning.
All that said, "seat belt" stops should be a friendly warning, same as a tail light out.
We are on the same page 100% until the seat belt. Seat belt stops shouldn't happen. If you want to fly through the windshield during a rearend, or out the side window in a roll over and be smushed by your own car.....that's your decision.
Eurodriver
10-09-14, 07:34
We are on the same page 100% until the seat belt. Seat belt stops shouldn't happen. If you want to fly through the windshield during a rearend, or out the side window in a roll over and be smushed by your own car.....that's your decision.
Totally agreed.
Do these libertarian feelings translate to things like drugs as well?
Let's use a little common sense here. The guy didn't hop out of the vehicle on a traffic stop. He pulled into a gas station and exited his vehicle not knowing a cop was whipping in behind him. The cop told him to get his license and he did... Most people don't have the M4C/gun forum hive mentality of condition red and blunder their way through life. They don't think about "officer safety" and the guy was complying with the officer's commands.
http://youtu.be/hiQoyr5vEXU
Let's use a little common sense here. The guy didn't hop out of the vehicle on a traffic stop. He pulled into a gas station and exited his vehicle not knowing a cop was whipping in behind him. The cop told him to get his license and he did... Most people don't have the M4C/gun forum hive mentality of condition red and blunder their way through life. They don't think about "officer safety" and the guy was complying with the officer's commands.
http://youtu.be/hiQoyr5vEXU
I think we've found the only one not using common sense in the thread. Everyone who has replied has stated the Trooper was in the wrong, and the situation should've been handled differently. However you still approach the situation/thread as if everyone is saying the guy should get a gold star for his actions.
We've all seen the video, and have all came to the same conclusion.
Do you think it would've helped, or hurt if the kid said "ok my id is in the truck...do you still want me to get it?" Im sure you don't care, you're just glad another negative incident involving law enforcement occurred and has given you another avenue to bitch.
No legal duty to inform in this state, and the question as to whether it's prudent to inform or not is often debated around here. Even asking individual cops their preference yields widely mixed results, just as an individual cop's reaction to the news that you're carrying a gun varies widely, with results that range from "so what?" to "feet back and spread 'em".
There is no easily searchable database of permit holders here. It exists, and is accessible, but it requires that the officer log on to a separate database and they rarely do. Personally, I don't "inform" unless there's a chance the cop might get accidentally notice that I have a gun and get excited. I wouldn't bother if I'm just going to sit there in my car and get a ticket (or a lecture). If we're going back to the cruiser, I would.
Key thing is...keep your hands where they can see them, don't get out of the car, don't make any moves inside the car unless they can clearly see what you're doing.
I think we've found the only one not using common sense in the thread.
Nevermind. Back on the ignore list you go.
I keep my registration and insurance info in one of those cheap Bell "wallets" up in the sun visor and I take my wallet out and put it in a cubby on the center console.
I'm not reaching behind me or opening the glove box or center console during a traffic stop. And I'm not mentioning my CWP either unless specifcally asked about it.
I'm very aware of my movements if I'm in contact with L.E..... I've had both ends of the tense/relaxed cop spectrum and cater my behavior to the Tense cop no matter what.
Much like crossing the street at a cross walk.... even though legally you've got the right to go, common sense still puts the burden of your butt's safety in your own hands.
I'm very aware of my movements if I'm in contact with L.E..... I've had both ends of the tense/relaxed cop spectrum and cater my behavior to the Tense cop no matter what.
Much like crossing the street at a cross walk.... even though legally you've got the right to go, common sense still puts the burden of your butt's safety in your own hands.
Yep, You are gonna lose any argument you try to start with a 4000+ lbs vehicle.
Eurodriver
10-09-14, 11:00
I don't pull over for LE unless they are in SRT chargers. No issues yet.
We are on the same page 100% until the seat belt. Seat belt stops shouldn't happen. If you want to fly through the windshield during a rearend, or out the side window in a roll over and be smushed by your own car.....that's your decision.
Fair enough.
I don't pull over for LE unless they are in SRT chargers. No issues yet.
Or Mercury Marauders. ;)
Belmont31R
10-11-14, 02:45
I don't pull over for LE unless they are in SRT chargers. No issues yet.
Thought you got rid of the bike...:)
The ex-State Trooper, who is out on bond, is back in the news (http://www.live5news.com/story/30406442/former-state-trooper-sean-groubert-arrested-for-shoplifting).
Court records show 32-year-old Sean Groubert was arrested for shoplifting from a Walmart in Columbia on Oct. 18, 2015. Records also show a woman, Morgan Groubert, was arrested for shoplifting on the same date. Both were released on bond after the incident...
I don't feel sorry for him. He would've thought it was a big coup if he hammered some shop lifting white trash.
It was Tears for Fears who said it best "Welcome to your life". Reap the whirlwind.
Very scary. Not sure what happened there. The guy who got shot was polite even after being shot!
I don't feel sorry for him. He would've thought it was a big coup if he hammered some shop lifting white trash.
It was Tears for Fears who said it best "Welcome to your life". Reap the whirlwind.
Duuuuuude Tears For Fears! I have their first album autographed with little comments! My dad did some kind of work with them in the '80's.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-03-15, 14:41
Very scary. Not sure what happened there. The guy who got shot was polite even after being shot!
While not funny, that is almost a SNL skit (Imagine Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd) or a South Park (Look out, he's charging). Even with the shooting after he raises his hands. At that point I'd be wondering if he is even a real cop.
Why would you mount a camera vertically on a car?
Moose-Knuckle
11-03-15, 14:47
It's a miracle Trooper Trigger Happy didn't hit/kill anyone in the gas station, it looks like an errant round hit the store's window.
true colors come out
he was a looser when he became a LEO and sadly had to shoot someone to get outed but at least he is not still a LEO !
and nothing against LEO he just chose a career where I am sure he thought he could get away with stuff
The ex-State Trooper, who is out on bond, is back in the news (http://www.live5news.com/story/30406442/former-state-trooper-sean-groubert-arrested-for-shoplifting).
ramairthree
11-03-15, 17:24
Why in the hell roll up on a guy for a seat belt violation when they hop in their truck and are going from the tire air pump or port o let to the gas pump?
Asshole move.
He rolled up on the guy with no beep, siren blip, quick flash on the lights or anything. Just totally got out and came up behind him by surprise.
Dumb ass move.
Anyone of us could have been caught by surprise and a little off guard like that, realized out wallet was on the seat, and went to get it.
I have left my wallet on the seat or console many a time with just the debit card in my hand when pumping gas, or just plain hopped out with my wallet in a jacket pocket by accident.
thank god the guy is still alive and hopefully not hurt too bad.
Unlike a lot of these other media frenzy riot situations where the shootings were justified,
This sure looks like a bad shoot and they are handling it right.
Assuming there is no preceding video showing him tossing an UZi and an AK on the seat of the truck after handing a dude a huge duffel bag of smack and grabbing a brief case full of cash that is.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-03-15, 20:42
So why don't shooting s like this, or the air gun in Walmart get more attention? It's almost like the Progressives try to find bad cases like Trayvon and Brown because they know that will piss off people on the right. They use it as a wedge issue with no intent on solving the problem, just deepening the divide isolating their base.
So why don't shooting s like this, or the air gun in Walmart get more attention? It's almost like the Progressives try to find bad cases like Trayvon and Brown because they know that will piss off people on the right. They use it as a wedge issue with no intent on solving the problem, just deepening the divide isolating their base.
The liberal media must not have had photos of the person who was shot when he was a 12 year old and innocent looking. /sarcasm
I was thinking... He probably thought before his shooting he was the most "professional" guy he knew.
Every time someone tosses out that word "professional", it's like who are you trying to convince, me or you?
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