View Full Version : G19 w/ fitted Storm Lake Barrel VS Factory Glock barrel POA/POI discussion
In another thread, I discussed one of the reasons for why a Glock shoots high. From my experience fitting Storm Lake barrels to Glock's, it has to do with the barrel hood being a loose fit in the slide. This causes the pistol to unlock faster (tilting the barrel up ever so slightly before the bullet has left). Last night at the range, I had 10 extra rounds of American Eagle 115gr ammo. The distance fired was 20yds standing (read no rest). First group shot was with the factory barrel. Its fit to the slide measured .004 on our feeler gauge. Hold point was the WHITE bottom edge of the target.
Group size was over 3 inches and POI was over 4 inches from the POA.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/StormLake/G19_FactoryBarrel20yds.jpg
Second 5rd group was shot with a fitted SL barrel. POA and POI was the same (meaning no rounds hit high) and group size was under 1.5 inches.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/StormLake/G19_FittedBarrel20yds.jpg
C4
Straight Shooter
10-08-14, 18:04
Are the SL barrels as reliable as Glocks? Seems Ive read here someone had an issue or issues.
Also...what would be the price total for parts & labor to fit one to a G17?
Finally..do other models have this issue? Like the 21 or even 41, which Im buying one tomorrow, btw.
Thanks for all your info Grant, always like your posts.
Voodoo_Man
10-08-14, 18:16
What sights? Factory plastic or oem trijicon?
Grant,
Will this be a new offering?
I was unable to find any additional info under Glock or Storm Lake on the G&R site... just the M&P barrels currently.
What about drop-in aftermarket barrels? SL, Wilson, etc.
Are the SL barrels as reliable as Glocks? Seems Ive read here someone had an issue or issues.
Also...what would be the price total for parts & labor to fit one to a G17?
Finally..do other models have this issue? Like the 21 or even 41, which Im buying one tomorrow, btw.
Thanks for all your info Grant, always like your posts.
Yes. I run a fitted barrel in all of my training guns.
We are not taking any barrel fitting work for Glock's (sorry).
When buying a Glock or an M&P, I would ask the dealer to check barrel fit for you.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
What sights? Factory plastic or oem trijicon?
This particular gun has Dawson sights.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Grant,
Will this be a new offering?
I was unable to find any additional info under Glock or Storm Lake on the G&R site... just the M&P barrels currently.
We did Glock fitted barrels years ago. We are thinking about offering them again, but are so busy that I don't know when we would find the time.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
What about drop-in aftermarket barrels? SL, Wilson, etc.
IMHO, drop in barrels are typically not any more accurate than factory barrels. It is going to be a case by case type of thing.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Geez...wish I was that accurate at 20 yards.
Geez...wish I was that accurate at 20 yards.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile. ;)
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
What about drop-in aftermarket barrels? SL, Wilson, etc.
I've had good luck with two Wilson barrels that were sold as drop-in but required fitting. I've posted on them several times.
Okie John
Curiosity got the better of me and I purchased a set of feeler gauges thin enough to measure the hood gaps on my Glock barrels.
Fitted Barrel: .0015" (my smallest gauge, it does show some deformation now). This barrel has a bit of wear at >25,000 rounds.
Glock Gen 4 Barrels (4): .003 - .004" depending on the barrel.
To ensure consistency of measurement techniques, I measured by holding my barrels up against the front of the slide opening and measuring at the breach face end. I was also looking for a friction fit, i.e. barely being able to force the gauge in the gap. Using this technique, with the feeler gauge in place the barrel was held in position when I release the pressure I was applying and did not immediately drop free even without the RSA in place.
As I mentioned in the other thread, my fitted barrel Glock does have a shorter front sight to shoot POA/POI than most of my other Glocks, but I haven't tried the stock barrel in this gun for some time and will have to vet it in a back to back test myself.
Littlehendrick
10-14-14, 15:03
Interesting information, thank you. Now I will have to go check the fit of my stuff, especially with a new slide coming in.
Not sure if this is related to the accuracy or shooting high due to a poor fitting barrel, but ....
I often hear about and have experienced Glocks shooting left once you get past 15 yds or so. Ruling out the typical poor trigger control/flinch low left shots is there a identified cause?
All of mine are drifted to different (though small) amounts. 25 yd groups off a bench are fine with the drift with multiple shooters.
Grant, do you experience this and if so, is the left tendency a barrel fit issue or something else?
I'm fine with the drifted rear, btw. I'm not looking to "fix" it. I'm just asking your opinion as to the cause.
Thanks
Harold
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Not sure if this is related to the accuracy or shooting high due to a poor fitting barrel, but ....
I often hear about and have experienced Glocks shooting left once you get past 15 yds or so. Ruling out the typical poor trigger control/flinch low left shots is there a identified cause?
All of mine are drifted to different (though small) amounts. 25 yd groups off a bench are fine with the drift with multiple shooters.
Grant, do you experience this and if so, is the left tendency a barrel fit issue or something else?
I'm fine with the drifted rear, btw. I'm not looking to "fix" it. I'm just asking your opinion as to the cause.
Thanks
Harold
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The cause is the grip angle. It makes it very easy for a righty to PUSH the trigger to the left while pulling it to the rear. So the fix is putting more finger on the trigger (all the way up to the first joint), and focusing on pulling the trigger straight to the rear.
Oh and lots of practice under a trained eye that knows what the Glock is dictating to you.
Good luck.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
How much does glock charge to fit a barrel?
How much does glock charge to fit a barrel?
I don't think they offer such a service.
C4
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I thought you might have some insider trading tips. Would love to get this done on my next purchase.
Where would one obtain an OS barrel?
Where would one obtain an OS barrel?
Most companies will not sell you one as you need to fit the length and width, ream it to size and then polish the chamber.
Barsto offers a barrel fitting service for Glock's I believe.
C4
Most companies will not sell you one as you need to fit the length and width, ream it to size and then polish the chamber.
I think maybe there's a category between drop-in and fully fitted. Drop-in is ready to go out of the box. Semi-fitted needs external fitting only--the chamber is fully finished. Full-fitted requires chamber reaming after the external dimensions get sorted out.
Okie John
I think maybe there's a category between drop-in and fully fitted. Drop-in is ready to go out of the box. Semi-fitted needs external fitting only--the chamber is fully finished. Full-fitted requires chamber reaming after the external dimensions get sorted out.
Okie John
There is. These can be all over the map from my experience.
C4
In my very limited experience (a KKM in a G17 and G30S, and Bar Sto "Semi-fit" in a G41, SIG P228, and P226) after-market stainless barrels are drop-in and play. They cut group size noticeably and are a very tight fit (without affecting functioning), plus your brass is no longer swollen from large chamber diameters (I reload all fired cases).
With the exception of the 228 which grouped a little left and high the POA/POI were the same, requiring rear sight drift.
The OEM barrels grouped OK, but the replacement barrels shot noticeably better. I had read about the accuracy and precision improvements from Tiger Swan G17s Bryan Searcy set up using Wilson and KKM barrels and gave them a try.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/abnartyguy/TigerSwanGlockTarget.jpg
In my very limited experience (a KKM in a G17 and G30S, and Bar Sto "Semi-fit" in a G41, SIG P228, and P226) after-market stainless barrels are drop-in and play. They cut group size noticeably and are a very tight fit (without affecting functioning), plus your brass is no longer swollen from large chamber diameters (I reload all fired cases).
With the exception of the 228 which grouped a little left and high the POA/POI were the same, requiring rear sight drift.
The OEM barrels grouped OK, but the replacement barrels shot noticeably better. I had read about the accuracy and precision improvements from Tiger Swan G17s Bryan Searcy set up using Wilson and KKM barrels and gave them a try.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/abnartyguy/TigerSwanGlockTarget.jpg
I have seen some very good results with just straight drop in barrels (over factory Glock's as well). The main reason (IMHO) is because the Glock barrels were SO loose that the drop in barrel had to improve group size.
We buy S&W factory barrels and go through them to match the barrel to the slide. This is the best way to ensure you are getting an improved fit.
C4
The cause is the grip angle. It makes it very easy for a righty to PUSH the trigger to the left while pulling it to the rear. So the fix is putting more finger on the trigger (all the way up to the first joint), and focusing on pulling the trigger straight to the rear.
Oh and lots of practice under a trained eye that knows what the Glock is dictating to you.
Good luck.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Overtravel is another culprit. Factory Glock triggers have a bunch of overtravel and the trigger slams to a stop at the rear. If you have any offset going in your trigger stroke at all, the overtravel can get you pulling them left.
I've had decent results from Storm Lake Drop ins, but fitted is always better as far as accuracy results.
I was having some problems with accuracy on a GEN3 G19 with newly installed dawson fiber sights so, on the advice of Grant went today and purchased a set of feeler gauges from HD. Now full disclaimer, I have never done this before, but here is what I found.
GEN3 G19 .006
GEN3 RTF G17 .012
GEN3 G17 .012
GEN4 G17 .006
GEN3 G21SF .020
GEN4 G21 .021
Are these normal and/or acceptable?
I bought a Wilson barrel for my G17 and my groups noticeably tightened up. Since then I started carrying a G19 and also replaced the stock barrel with a Wilson barrel. Thankfully the results were the same.
How hard is it to fit a match barrel to a glock slide? Is the only area that requires modification the barrel hood?
If so couldn't it be fit with swiss pattern hand files and a slow approach?
I was having some problems with accuracy on a GEN3 G19 with newly installed dawson fiber sights so, on the advice of Grant went today and purchased a set of feeler gauges from HD. Now full disclaimer, I have never done this before, but here is what I found.
GEN3 G19 .006
GEN3 RTF G17 .012
GEN3 G17 .012
GEN4 G17 .006
GEN3 G21SF .020
GEN4 G21 .021
Are these normal and/or acceptable?
It is hard to say without making sure you are doing it correctly. Ideally, you want something that fits .003 or better.
C4
How hard is it to fit a match barrel to a glock slide? Is the only area that requires modification the barrel hood?
If so couldn't it be fit with swiss pattern hand files and a slow approach?
Depends. How we buy them, you have to cut the barrel hood for length and width. Then you need to ream it to the hood length (and have a gauge to check it). Then you need to polish the inside of the chamber (we take ours up to 800). We also put an 11 degree crown on ours, but that isn't necessary.
With that said, there are some barrels out there that are semi-drop in. They don't need reamed and typically just some light filing on the length and width.
C4
In my very limited experience (a KKM in a G17 and G30S, and Bar Sto "Semi-fit" in a G41, SIG P228, and P226) after-market stainless barrels are drop-in and play. They cut group size noticeably and are a very tight fit (without affecting functioning), plus your brass is no longer swollen from large chamber diameters (I reload all fired cases).
With the exception of the 228 which grouped a little left and high the POA/POI were the same, requiring rear sight drift.
The OEM barrels grouped OK, but the replacement barrels shot noticeably better. I had read about the accuracy and precision improvements from Tiger Swan G17s Bryan Searcy set up using Wilson and KKM barrels and gave them a try.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/abnartyguy/TigerSwanGlockTarget.jpg
Darn nice shooting there! Not sure why anyone wouldn't be more than happy with those results.
In my very limited experience (a KKM in a G17 and G30S, and Bar Sto "Semi-fit" in a G41, SIG P228, and P226) after-market stainless barrels are drop-in and play. They cut group size noticeably and are a very tight fit (without affecting functioning), plus your brass is no longer swollen from large chamber diameters (I reload all fired cases).
With the exception of the 228 which grouped a little left and high the POA/POI were the same, requiring rear sight drift.
The OEM barrels grouped OK, but the replacement barrels shot noticeably better. I had read about the accuracy and precision improvements from Tiger Swan G17s Bryan Searcy set up using Wilson and KKM barrels and gave them a try.
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/abnartyguy/TigerSwanGlockTarget.jpg
Wow. Excellent shooting.
Question - Does using an aftermarket barrel affect reliability? I'm guessing the chambers are a smidge tighter in the aftermarket barrels.
Also, every .40 Glock I've seen bulges the base of the cartridge case. Would an aftermarket barrel alleviate the bulge? Would it affect reliability?
Glock factory barrels bulge brass ugly, and I mean visibly ugly where you can see it and fired cases do not roll smoothly over a flat surface (like glass or a mirror). Bar Sto and KKM barrels do not bulge brass -- cases look like they were fired in a match 1911. CAVEAT -- my experience is with 45s and 9mm -- I do not own a 40 S&W.
I have had no problems with stoppages or malfunctions with the after-market barrels (which is odd since I had a few failures to feed with Glock factory barrels and lead semi-wadcutters).
It is hard to say without making sure you are doing it correctly. Ideally, you want something that fits .003 or better.
C4
If anyone cares to expand on this, please do. How can I ensure I am doing this properly? I googled for a while and really came up with nothing.
It is hard to say without making sure you are doing it correctly. Ideally, you want something that fits .003 or better.
C4
I do know this, the gauge I picked up at HD only goes down to .005. The space I was checking was the sliver of light that you could see between slide and barrel.
If anyone cares to expand on this, please do. How can I ensure I am doing this properly? I googled for a while and really came up with nothing.
Take a pic of what you are doing and send it to me.
C4
I do know this, the gauge I picked up at HD only goes down to .005. The space I was checking was the sliver of light that you could see between slide and barrel.
Ya, that might work as a Go/No Go, but won't tell you how tight a fit some of your barrels are.
C4
Take a pic of what you are doing and send it to me.
C4
Ok, at work now, and have to head over to Bham this afternoon through the weekend. I will do next week and email you. Thanks Grant.
When we mention Wilson drop in barrels is that Wilson Combat? Also, is that a better option than say a new OEM barrel on a high mileage G19/17 that needs a new barrel?
When we mention Wilson drop in barrels is that Wilson Combat? Also, is that a better option than say a new OEM barrel on a high mileage G19/17 that needs a new barrel?
Yes. Cannot say for certain if it is a better way to go or not. My guess is that it would be, but I have not used their barrels.
Next year, I intend to have SL do a special Glock barrel for us that is SEMI-drop in. The chamber would be done and the width of the barrel hood would be standard. The length of the hood however would be a couple thousandths longer than factory. In some instances, the barrel will drop in. In other cases the customer will need to do a little filing.
C4
4DAIVI PAI2K5
11-07-14, 09:55
Yes. Cannot say for certain if it is a better way to go or not. My guess is that it would be, but I have not used their barrels.
Next year, I intend to have SL do a special Glock barrel for us that is SEMI-drop in. The chamber would be done and the width of the barrel hood would be standard. The length of the hood however would be a couple thousandths longer than factory. In some instances, the barrel will drop in. In other cases the customer will need to do a little filing.
C4
I like the sound of this.... even if it's my trigger finger that needs all the work. lol
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