A good guy with a gun CAN make a difference! [Archive]

View Full Version : A good guy with a gun CAN make a difference!

jaydoc1

10-09-14, 09:25

That's not news to members of this site obviously.

Armed patron versus four robbers=two dead robbers.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/10/06/single-customer-wins-shootout-with-four-armed-robbers-in-texas-bar/

Blinking Dog

10-09-14, 11:26

Interesting story. Good for the good guys.

Not surprising that the man doing the shooting fled the scene though, because in Texas a "bar" (defined as deriving 51% or more of its revenues from on-site alcohol sales and consumption) is off-limits to carrying even by those with a concealed carry license. Assuming he had a CHL...maybe he was carrying illegally. So...was the shooter really a good guy?

docsherm

10-09-14, 11:36

And once they find him he will be facing charges of his own. Too bad.

http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/2014/10/04/man-halts-robbery-kills-two-suspects/16714947/

jaydoc1

10-09-14, 11:43

So...was the shooter really a good guy?

Good points.

Averageman

10-09-14, 11:49

So a guy sits in a bar with a concealed handgun, causes no problems and stays to walk the Bartender to her car after closing.
Things go sideways when four guys decide to rob the place and the patrons. This guy stops the robbery and kills two of the four armed robbers.
I have no problem with any of that, It seems like he did the right thing.
The folks who stood up and said "Oh yeah, that was Jimmy, he comes in here all the time and he drives a blue Chevy Silverado" those are the folks I take issue with.
The standard "I dunno, never saw 'em before" followed by a "Didn't get a look at him, it happened all so fast" and the age old "Who was that masked Man?" were in order.
No good deed goes unpunished.

Whiskey_Bravo

10-09-14, 11:53

I am thinking the bar employee's and regular patrons are going to not remember the guys name or really any memorable features.

docsherm

10-09-14, 12:00

I am thinking the bar employee's and regular patrons are going to not remember the guys name or really any memorable features.

Let's hope so. There is a big difference between what is legal and what is just.

Blinking Dog

10-09-14, 12:56

There is a big difference between what is legal and what is just.

I hear you on that.

My question is somewhat rhetorical, was he a good guy or not? Of course, he defended innocent folks from stereotypical bad guys, making him a good guy. So why did he flee? If he wasn't licensed, that's a good reason I guess. Even if licensed, he was in a no-carry location. What if he was licensed, but in a no-carry location and had been drinking to the point technically his BAC would put him in a position to be in a no-carry location and legally intoxicated while carrying. All that spells no legal carry any more, regardless of the good deed he did. So technically we can surmise that he was breaking some kind of law, making him - on paper - a bad guy. Ok, maybe not a Bad Guy as in his actions, but "bad guy" for breaking the laws.

The point of my nonsense is to point out the similar nonsense in our TX concealed carry laws. Yes mr gun owner, you went through background check, classroom hours, and showed us you can shoot. You can now carry...except in these specific locations, some of which may be places you'd likely encounter an issue and need your gun.

I used to like to shoot pool and watch a football game at a sports bar with buddies, and I have a CHL. Even if I only intended to drink iced tea, I couldn't legally carry there.

Hypothetically if I had ever carried in a bar, or after a schooner of beer, then I would say I was being a bad guy. Once you've been deemed a good guy, seems like you should be able to carry anywhere. But that's a topic for (of) another thread.

Whiskey_Bravo

10-09-14, 13:09

What if he was licensed, but in a no-carry location and had been drinking to the point technically his BAC would put him in a position to be in a no-carry location and legally intoxicated while carrying.

Unless I am mistaken Texas law states that there is no legal limit when carrying, as in you can't have any alcohol and still legally carry.

Blinking Dog

10-09-14, 14:16

Actually, it is the opposite. There is no definition of "intoxicated" with regard to the prohibition on carrying while intoxicated. Meaning, the law doesn't specify what BAC is legally intoxicated for carry purposes. One could surmise that that's 0.08, same as DUI, but others could read a more liberal interpretation and say you're intoxicated after one beer. If you were to appear intoxicated to a LEO while carrying I think that would be a bad thing, and you could be hauled in. Might beat the rap, but you'll do the ride.

Averageman

10-09-14, 17:00

My Uncle used to own a bar in a questionable area.
Underneath the cash register there was a shotgun that might have been 18 inches long. I was a kid and I didn't know any better at the time, I saw it a couple of times and just kind of "Knew Better" than to ask.
What can I say, it's an interesting family.
Years and I mean a couple of decades later I asked my Uncle about that gun. Aparently my Grandpa's brother who was a Old School Chicago Cop brought it in one night wrapped in a rag and said "Keep this right here." It sat half under the cash register as long as he owned that bar.
My Uncle who was a good law abiding guy said that gun stopped a lot of crap over the years just by being there.

Blinking Dog

10-09-14, 17:16

IIRC, the bar owner (and perhaps authorized employees) can carry legally inside the bar. Someone else may know.

SOWT

10-09-14, 20:27

IIRC, the bar owner (and perhaps authorized employees) can carry legally inside the bar. Someone else may know.

Correct.

CHL holder can not legally carry in a bar.

Eurodriver

10-09-14, 20:42

CodeRed30

10-09-14, 23:31

"Better judged by 12 than carried by 6" right?

Reagans Rascals

10-10-14, 02:50

I hear you on that.

My question is somewhat rhetorical, was he a good guy or not? Of course, he defended innocent folks from stereotypical bad guys, making him a good guy. So why did he flee? If he wasn't licensed, that's a good reason I guess. Even if licensed, he was in a no-carry location. What if he was licensed, but in a no-carry location and had been drinking to the point technically his BAC would put him in a position to be in a no-carry location and legally intoxicated while carrying. All that spells no legal carry any more, regardless of the good deed he did. So technically we can surmise that he was breaking some kind of law, making him - on paper - a bad guy. Ok, maybe not a Bad Guy as in his actions, but "bad guy" for breaking the laws.

The point of my nonsense is to point out the similar nonsense in our TX concealed carry laws. Yes mr gun owner, you went through background check, classroom hours, and showed us you can shoot. You can now carry...except in these specific locations, some of which may be places you'd likely encounter an issue and need your gun.

I used to like to shoot pool and watch a football game at a sports bar with buddies, and I have a CHL. Even if I only intended to drink iced tea, I couldn't legally carry there.

Hypothetically if I had ever carried in a bar, or after a schooner of beer, then I would say I was being a bad guy. Once you've been deemed a good guy, seems like you should be able to carry anywhere. But that's a topic for (of) another thread.

Texas CCW laws are completely asinine... reference my post here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?157979-How-much-cash-can-you-have-on-you-without-it-being-seized/page2

bubba04

10-10-14, 06:39

Hopefully this even will start the discussion of how the laws need to change.