View Full Version : Best low power variable for CQB, under $1000?
So I've been thinking about buying a magnified optic for some time and am fairly set on it now, but I am trying to find something that will give me performance very close to an EOTech at CQB distances. I want this because I largely prefer EOTechs and if I can not find what I am looking for in a variable under $1000, I'll just go with an EXPS-3 and G33 magnifier. This optic will probably be shot at 100 yards and under for the foreseeable future so by no means do I need magnification, but I really want to try it. I already have an AR with an XPS and another with a T-1 so I'm looking for something a little different. I have almost no experience on low power variables, and very little on further magnified scopes. I'm fairly open to most combinations, whether its something like ACOG/mini-RDS combo (which might be valuable since my issue gun has an ACOG that I have no live rounds through yet), dedicated 1-4 or 1-6, or the EXPS+G33. Again, biggest criteria is that it has to be good at CQB - so I think I would want something with good daytime illumination and a decent eye box. I probably would have already decided on the Vortex 1-4 if not for the complaints about daytime brightness. The SWFA seems to get good reviews though I haven't seen much within the last year or so. So, what do you guys think?
Voodoo_Man
10-10-14, 19:24
Dont really see a reason you need anything more than an rds for cqb anything.
You hit out to 300y easy woth a finely zeroed rds like a 2moa t/h1.
I know that's very possible, like I said though I really want to try something with some magnification.
Voodoo_Man
10-10-14, 19:37
I know that's very possible, like I said though I really want to try something with some magnification.
Plenty of 1-4x options out there. Leupold, Vortex, hell even Bushnell makes a pretty good one for cheap.
You can always fall back on the MTAC. While its not the cream of the crop itll work fine.
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/burris-mtac-impressions/
I was just checking this Burris out recently.
You don't need certain reticles to be illuminated in the day time. The vortex is one.
Here are two I think look very promising for the price (scope only, not the combo with the reflex sight), I would check them out and look through them if possible . http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtr1x5x.html ( $800) or less and http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtr1x8x.html ($1000 or less) Here is a link to a thread on the scopes : http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/271924-new-burris-xtr2-rocks-3-gun.html
http://www.riflescopes.com/Burris-XTR-II-Rifle-Scopes-C9871.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2wcdEQj3A
I've been happy with my MTAC. Not really a precision optic, but I've made consistant hits oit to 400 yds.
Here are two I think look very promising for the price, I would check them out and look through them if possible . http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtr1x5x.html ( $800) or less and http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtr1x8x.html ($1000 or less) Here is a link to a thread on the scopes : http://forum.snipershide.com/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/271924-new-burris-xtr2-rocks-3-gun.html
http://www.riflescopes.com/Burris-XTR-II-Rifle-Scopes-C9871.aspx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb2wcdEQj3A
Hmm that might be just what I'm looking for. I was hoping for something in between the $450ish and $1200ish price ranges and hadn't seen this.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Singlestack Wonder
10-10-14, 21:21
Take a look at the Meopta 1-4x ZD. Less than $1000, daylight visible dot based reticle.
Under $1000 you don't want a combination setup, realistically a solid 1-4x is the answer. The Trijicon TR24T is really quite good as an almost-RDS, yet can be dialed up to 4x. It's also quite light, but lacks really helpful reticle subtentions... they're truly great out to 300m, but other options are truly better past that 300yd threshold (where a solid 16" setup still has plenty of legs out to 500m with good ammo).
I'm in the same boat as the OP. I want some magnification with emphasis on CQB. I've narrowed my search down to either the burris mtac or the luepold vx-r. Both have capped turrets which I see as essential. If it turns out I don't like either I might try the new primary arms 2.5x fixed scope or their new long eye relief magnifier.
I think maybe the Leatherwood CMR might be worth looking into for these requirements also.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l27uTiDjre0
This is a very good review of it imo.
Add a nice QD mount would be somewhere in the middle of $1000
Under $1000 you don't want a combination setup, realistically a solid 1-4x is the answer. The Trijicon TR24T is really quite good as an almost-RDS, yet can be dialed up to 4x. It's also quite light, but lacks really helpful reticle subtentions... they're truly great out to 300m, but other options are truly better past that 300yd threshold (where a solid 16" setup still has plenty of legs out to 500m with good ammo).
It'll be going on my 16" Noveske and I'll have some of the CBC 262 stashed away. I'll definitely be pushing it as far as I can once I find somewhere to do so. That probably won't be until I get back to the mainland in like 3 years though. Thanks for the input so far guys.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NF 1-4 FC2
MEOPTA ZD
TR24 TRIANGLE
LEUPOLD 1.25-4 PATROL, OR STANDARD.
Damn. Lots of options to research. I know I want a true 1x or as close to it as possible. Also don't want anything matched to a specific load (I know some Trijicons are matched for 55 or 77gr loads).
ETA - Don't like the reticle on the TR24 triangle and the Meopta has a pretty small objective so I think I can rule those out.
Vortex 1-4 capped. Only two problems are:
1) MOA instead of MIL. This is a personal preference issue.
2) It's not a Leupold Mk8 1.1-8x CQBSS
First gen Burris 1-4 XTRs are $599 at SWFA with a Fastfire and mount. It's got a reticle I like and is made in Japan I believe. Not sure you can do better for the price if you like the reticle.
http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-Xtreme-Tactical-XTR-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P76493.aspx
Respectfully, if you are asking about truly CLOSE quarter battle, you do not need a variable optic. A red dot will be more than adequate.
I had recently had an opportunity to use the new Trijicon Vcog 1-6x. I know its way past your $ line but I have never used a better low power optic and it is now my next must buy scope. Once I save the $2600 it cost it's mine.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
I had recently had an opportunity to use the new Trijicon Vcog 1-6x. I know its way past your $ line but I have never used a better low power optic and it is now my next must buy scope. Once I save the $2600 it cost it's mine.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
What have you used that you're comparing it to?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
MorphCross
10-11-14, 21:42
Damn. Lots of options to research. I know I want a true 1x or as close to it as possible. Also don't want anything matched to a specific load (I know some Trijicons are matched for 55 or 77gr loads).
ETA - Don't like the reticle on the TR24 triangle and the Meopta has a pretty small objective so I think I can rule those out.
If that is the case look at the Leupold Patrol. Reticle doesn't marry you to a specific load. Turrets don't marry you to a specific load. @ 1.25 with 500 lumens against a white wall the reticle shows up well and is only slightly slower than my T-1.
I guess we should ask, "What do you mean by CQB?" Close quarter to me means no more than 100 yards and probably much closer. A variable power optic, in my opinion, is not for CQB. Respecfully offered.
I had recently had an opportunity to use the new Trijicon Vcog 1-6x. I know its way past your $ line but I have never used a better low power optic and it is now my next must buy scope. Once I save the $2600 it cost it's mine.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Definitely a lot more than I'm looking to spend, but I could maybe consider it if it weren't matched to a particular load like I mentioned. If I was spending that much money though, I'd probably just get the newish USO 1-4.
I guess we should ask, "What do you mean by CQB?" Close quarter to me means no more than 100 yards and probably much closer. A variable power optic, in my opinion, is not for CQB. Respecfully offered.
Did you read through the posts on the first page?
If that is the case look at the Leupold Patrol. Reticle doesn't marry you to a specific load. Turrets don't marry you to a specific load. @ 1.25 with 500 lumens against a white wall the reticle shows up well and is only slightly slower than my T-1.
I'd consider the Weaver 1-5 CIRT as well. True 1 power, much better glass and ret. I sold my patrol for the weaver and never regretted it.
I had the same issue earlier this year deciding. I have aimpoints and wanted something as close 1x as possible and bright.
I tried several scopes and always hated the TR24. Well my buddy got one and I tried it. It was the most like a red dot of anything I tried including a Vortex 1-4x, 1.25-4x Leupold, my Meopta K dot (which was a descent scope but heavy and the glass qualify lacked severely), and a few other scopes in the mix.
Despite hating the look of the triangle, it works great for speed and accuracy. I've been able to shoot groups in the prone like a precision rifle scope, yet run drills fast. I just wish there was a BDC on the post. I've found that the triangle is essentially 1 mil tall, which, depending on load and zero, can get you on target out to 500 yards.
The knobs on the Trijicon are junk, thought.
My purchase was a stop-gap measure until I could afford a Mark 8 or VCOG.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Any other opinions? I was really liking the Burris XTR II but apparently there have been several different problems with them from members on the hide (before it got stupid). Don't know how true or common it is though. Behind that is probably the Vortex Viper PST or SFWA. There's got to be more in the $600-700 price range.
Considered the Leupold 1.5-5x? It's a really nice scope too. I have a friend with one. Also there are the VX-R Patrols.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Considered the Leupold 1.5-5x? It's a really nice scope too. I have a friend with one. Also there are the VX-R Patrols.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I want as close to 1x as possible so even the 1.5 is not quite what I'm hoping for. I think some others have said the Patrols though, I do need to look into those.
Understood. If you find one to try, you'll be surprised by it so worth a look. The vortex isn't bad at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Understood. If you find one to try, you'll be surprised by it so worth a look. The vortex isn't bad at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's the issue, I don't think I'll be able to try any of these before buying and with such little experience on them I don't want one that kind of sucks and will give me a bad impression on the whole flavor of optic. I do think I want capped turrets though so back to the Vortex or SWFA. Is the latter really worth almost double the price?
I haven't used the SWFA, so I can't say it's worth more or not. The vortex, it doesn't seem as nearly close to 1x as my TR24. It seems fairly similar to my other friends 1.5x on bottom. Maybe it's truly a 1.25-4x it something. It's honestly hard to tell---doesn't really seen much slower. None of them seem to be Aimpoint fast, but not much slower. If money is an issue get the vortex, and if you don't like it sell and try the next on your list.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As long as I stay at about $1000, money isn't an issue. I keep going back to the EO+magnifier option. It'd weigh less than the SWFA in a Bobro, be right around the same price, have better battery life, and obviously the EXPS will smoke any variable optic at 1x. I'm probably just going to have to suck it up and try both. Good thing I have more than one AR.
For the money the Vortex PST 1-4 PST is great scope. I have no experience with the SWFA 1-4 model.
There were a couple good reviews on Snipershide and TOS on both models. I would say if you are just looking to try the 1-4 the Vortex is a great starting point.
I also think the Night force 1-4 is a nice optic too.
Good luck choosing an optic because it can be a difficult experience. One final thing to keep im mind is that some retailers will exchange an optic so long as it has not been mounted. The SWFA retailer had this policy before.
SomeOtherGuy
10-20-14, 15:32
Any other opinions? I was really liking the Burris XTR II but apparently there have been several different problems with them from members on the hide (before it got stupid). Don't know how true or common it is though. Behind that is probably the Vortex Viper PST or SFWA. There's got to be more in the $600-700 price range.
I have the XTR II 1-5x and have been very happy with it. Not heavy use so far, but it has the quality I expect at the price. If you get spoiled by high end stuff you'll never be happy with consumer grade optics.
I also have the SWFA SS 1-4x, and once had the 1-6x. I really like the 1-4x, but part of what I like is the T-reticle that they discontinued. I do not like the donut as well, which is half the reason I sold my 1-6x. I've also found battery life pretty short on the 1-4x, and it seems to drain the battery somewhat even when turned off. Other than that, I am happy with it. I haven't owned the PST 1-4x but from what I've seen it's not quite in the same league as the SS.
If you don't need fancy reticles, the Leupold VX-6 1-6x is a nice scope under $1k and is very light.
on the hide (before it got stupid).
Opinionated much? Minor switchover pains and the new site is already settling down to work well.
Opinionated much? Minor switchover pains and the new site is already settling down to work well.
I can't get it to work with tapatalk. Any luck with that yet?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SomeOtherGuy
10-20-14, 15:40
I can't get it to work with tapatalk. Any luck with that yet?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No idea, I don't use tapatalk. There is at least one thread going on discussing tapatalk issues - I haven't been following it.
I have the XTR II 1-5x and have been very happy with it. Not heavy use so far, but it has the quality I expect at the price. If you get spoiled by high end stuff you'll never be happy with consumer grade optics.
I also have the SWFA SS 1-4x, and once had the 1-6x. I really like the 1-4x, but part of what I like is the T-reticle that they discontinued. I do not like the donut as well, which is half the reason I sold my 1-6x. I've also found battery life pretty short on the 1-4x, and it seems to drain the battery somewhat even when turned off. Other than that, I am happy with it. I haven't owned the PST 1-4x but from what I've seen it's not quite in the same league as the SS.
If you don't need fancy reticles, the Leupold VX-6 1-6x is a nice scope under $1k and is very light.
So out of those 3 which do you like best?
Opinionated much? Minor switchover pains and the new site is already settling down to work well.
To be honest I only tried it once since the switch but it sounded like they would be requiring membership fees. Maybe I based that off a complete rumor though.
After research, I decided on the leupold vx-r patrol 1.25-4x. I have no experience(outside of handling them in a gunshop) yet (getting funds together), but on paper, it beats out the trij, vortex, etc for the following:
Weight - its 11or so oz. I looked at 1-6 and I could get a 2.5-10x with offset rds for similar/less wt.
Dot brightness - rds bright and large eyebox make it visible in all lighting conditions(versus the trijicon) and sucks your eye in really well(versus vortex).
eyebox - large, makes it fast once you get used to ignoring the 1.25x
reticle - dot = fast, hash marks for precision at distance nothing too fancy, its a 1-4 after all.
motion sensor - I can keep it "on" at night for HD and not have to worry about battery life, or turning it on.
Obviously, some of this may not be as good(maybe better) as I think. We'll see once I start using it, just wanted to share what I've read over the past year or so. Second choice would be trijicon green triangle.
SomeOtherGuy
10-20-14, 21:05
So out of those 3 which do you like best?
I have far more time on the SS than on the others, and I like the SS. The XTR has great potential, and has the best illumination of ANY 1-4x/1-5x/1-6x I've seen, including even the Leupold Mark 6 and Vortex Razor, but its reticle is kinda small and might get lost in some forest settings or other cluttered backgrounds. It's also a bit sensitive to eye position at 5x; however it has wide FOV and plenty of eyebox at 1x where it matters most. I think I will eventually like the XTR better, but it's too early to say so now.
The VX-6 was an extremely light scope with pretty good glass and a very wide FOV. I did not like the reticle - I'm OK without hashes, but after getting used to etched reticles the look of wire reticles simply bugs me. Not a functional issue, a preference. I also had less than total confidence in its windage and elevation turrets, and the rubber diaphragm for the illumination intensity and on/off switch. It's probably fine, but again, feel and personal preference is an issue.
To be honest I only tried it once since the switch but it sounded like they would be requiring membership fees. Maybe I based that off a complete rumor though.
As far as I can tell, and I am not 100% certain, membership fees will only be owed if you want access to the "online training" and a few special areas, all of which were also paid-membership items at the prior site. I'm not a fan of the Scout network affiliation but it does appear that it will be a non-issue, except for people who think the sky is falling.
I've had a Burris MTAC sitting on my MWS308 for a good 6 months. It's been reliable sitting on that beast. I paid a cool $700 and it came with a Fastfire that I'm holding onto for whatever
I've owned both the Vortex PST 1-4 and the trijicon TR24 and both are great and can be had with a quality mount under $1000 but I found myself returning to my aimpoints after using both
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.