View Full Version : Change in Combat AO, IE, Desert to Jungle? what would you change on your AR?
Just a question on set-up, Thinking back to my fathers days in Vietnam, where there were M-16's with irons and M-14's with wood stocks, and SOF teams Hacked the items off of guns that got caught up in vines and foliage.
Thinking about my times getting in and out of vehicles and how my current carbine is set up and what I could be doing better.
Would you change your offset sights? the AimPoint mount with the quick release with levers? RedDot mount that that would hang on a vine?
Too many rails? Tac light too long? vertical grip too big? retractable bipod grip?
What is the set up that you would use feasibly in all situations? All areas of operations?
I usually run an EO-tech, GG&G MAD rear and Troy HK front sight or Rosch works sight/light, VTAC rail, slick sides, shorty vertical grip from Troy, LMT stock, two point sling,
I would change my paint. That's about it.
Colors on paint/furniture, and I'd move one carbine from a 1-4x to an aimpoint if I was moving somewhere with dense foliage or built-up areas.
I wouldn't change a thing except maybe bring along a suppressor,nods, a water filter and fungicide
I'd have to upgrade to quick release RDS mounts in the event of rain. Never shot with an RDS in rain, but I've read it can mess up your sight picture.
In the jungle/forest I think a 11.5"ish SBR would be a better choice than a 16" rifle/carbine, and I think a RDS also would be more beneficial than a magnified optic. A higher Lumen light would be paramount.
I'd have to upgrade to quick release RDS mounts in the event of rain. Never shot with an RDS in rain, but I've read it can mess up your sight picture.
I've heard that as well.
I wouldn't change a thing except maybe bring along a suppressor,nods, a water filter and fungicide
And bug juice and a machete!
I would change my paint. That's about it.
That was going to be my answer as well.
Most with krylon painted furniture will find that even residual bug juice will quickly make a gummy mess. Cerakote may be OK. But DEET is tough on most nonmetallic paint type coatings
In the SE the FDE furniture is still a bit light, as is foliage. So OD furniture for me.
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
I'd have to upgrade to quick release RDS mounts in the event of rain. Never shot with an RDS in rain, but I've read it can mess up your sight picture.
Things like snow, water, mud, sand etc can end up on your optic. Unless it is totally packed, you can still be effective.
You do need to plan your gear so you can fix these things; lens paper, lens brush, clothes brush for removing snow etc. In a military team setting, you can take cover and fix your gear.
There are also windowed lens covers for Aimpoints, at least.
While not having been in a jungle environment, I have been in some pretty thick brush, and I don't see a need to change anything weapons wise. The biggest changes would be made to 1st through 3rd line, and PPE.
Things like snow, water, mud, sand etc can end up on your optic. Unless it is totally packed, you can still be effective.
There are also windowed lens covers for Aimpoints, at least.
Yep... but I'm talking in an active down poor. I'm guessing that no matter what covers or whatnot... you'd get too much light refraction and distortion of the dot.
I guess I could bust out the garden hose and give it a whirl.
Yep... but I'm talking in an active down poor. I'm guessing that no matter what covers or whatnot... you'd get too much light refraction and distortion of the dot.
I guess I could bust out the garden hose and give it a whirl.
Yup, and that is why you have covers on your scope, to make sure it is protected from the elements. It is possible to patrol having the scope covers on; it reduces your reaction time slightly, but for most contacts you really just seek cover and try to locate the enemy within your designated sector of fire, before actually returning fire.
I have done shooting in all kinds of weather conditions, downpours, heavy snow, and the optic works.
I did a JOTC rotation in 1997 down in Panama. Good times were had. We played OPFOR for 2/75 the whole time, and we had just gotten M4's. They had M4A1's with SOPMOD I, but Aimpoints, not Trijicon Reflex's like Squeals and SF got. They also had Aimpoints on the Para SAW's.
Cerakote is standard for all my personal builds, to include the insides of the FCG housing and mag well, RE threads, outside of barrel, gas block, handguard, RE tube, end plate, lock nut, "T" portion of the charge handle, and sometimes the ejection port door.
I would also prefer a hard chromed BCG. I think a streamlined gun stripped down of a lot of the rails is obviously going to be less of a snag hazard. Blending the white light into the profile of the carbine is something I have been looking at for a long time, after seeing issues with guys shearing off lights in CQB.
I also agree 100% with the 11.5" gun, which still generates more velocity than a lot of people think. I would have a gun without the abortion assist, maybe even go as close to a GAU-5A/A with upgraded internals with a short can, micro light, and RMR integrated into a carry handle.
I'd have to upgrade to quick release RDS mounts in the event of rain. Never shot with an RDS in rain, but I've read it can mess up your sight picture.
I just did a patrol rifle Qual a few weeks ago in the pissing rain. The eotech reticle was good to go. However, the back side of the sight window collected water something fierce when slung. I eventually started covering it with my off side hand during down time between drills.
Once Tempe rifle was shouldered most of water would fall down. It was a hindrance but not impossible to the point where I thought about taking it off.
Of course my iron sight aperture was also bubbling over during zeroing. That was a pain in the ass since I could t maintain a constant cheekweld shot to shot.
Moose-Knuckle
10-15-14, 21:03
Jungle huh . . . ?
The addition of a chainsaw bayonet of course!
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/chainsawbayo_zpsb314c292.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/AKS-74/media/chainsawbayo_zpsb314c292.jpg.html)
...and Mooseknuckle takes a decisive lead, here at the Internet 500...
Eurodriver
10-16-14, 06:48
...and Mooseknuckle takes a decisive lead, here at the Internet 500...
That guy wins at the internet every single day. I don't know how he does it.
I just did a patrol rifle Qual a few weeks ago in the pissing rain. The eotech reticle was good to go. However, the back side of the sight window collected water something fierce when slung. I eventually started covering it with my off side hand during down time between drills.
Once Tempe rifle was shouldered most of water would fall down. It was a hindrance but not impossible to the point where I thought about taking it off.
Of course my iron sight aperture was also bubbling over during zeroing. That was a pain in the ass since I could t maintain a constant cheekweld shot to shot.
I can second this. We have limited access to the range we use to qualify so scheduling dictates that we shoot regardless of weather. We've shot in down pours quite a bit and I haven't found the Eotech any harder to use than iron sights. A quick wipe with your finger does the trick and even that is rarely necessary. The only caveat is that the range only goes out to 50 yards so at real distances perhaps it will be a little more difficult.
I can second this. We have limited access to the range we use to qualify so scheduling dictates that we shoot regardless of weather. We've shot in down pours quite a bit and I haven't found the Eotech any harder to use than iron sights. A quick wipe with your finger does the trick and even that is rarely necessary. The only caveat is that the range only goes out to 50 yards so at real distances perhaps it will be a little more difficult.
In my experience if it's raining hard enough that I have a hard time seeing the reticle on my Eotech its raining hard enough that I have a hard time seeing the target 100 yards away too.
Nothing like shooting 10" plates at 200 yards in a torrential downpour when everything 10 feet in front of you is a shade of gray.
I have shot some in heavy rain with an Aimpoint. Yes, water definitely diffracts the dot. It still works OK for large/close targets, but when you start getting out past 100 yards, it becomes real difficult real quick. You quickly learn the value of flip-up lens covers and a dry rag carried in a plastic bag somewhere in your gear. Wiping with wet shirt/pants or fingers doesn't help much.
Nothing like shooting 10" plates at 200 yards in a torrential downpour when everything 10 feet in front of you is a shade of gray.
Exactly. When faced with this same weather and distance, I stripped off the RDS and went with irons. FWIW, peep sights also suck in low visibility conditions.
You know, I've found the best sighting system for shooting in a downpour to be a god old scope. An etched reticle doesn't diffract like a red dot, so the scope is usable even with the ocular lens all beaded up with water; and a good scope's ability to collect more light than the naked eye really helps with target ID and shot placement in the reduced visibility created by heavy rain.
I'd take off the 1-4x & just run the irons. Everything else stays the same.
You know, I've found the best sighting system for shooting in a downpour to be a god old scope. An etched reticle doesn't diffract like a red dot, so the scope is usable even with the ocular lens all beaded up with water; and a good scope's ability to collect more light than the naked eye really helps with target ID and shot placement in the reduced visibility created by heavy rain.
Kyle Defoor wrote about shooting in heavy rain conditions and came to the same conclusions. Seems that the 1-4 or 1-6 is the way to go if you're expecting rain.
http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/34739173583/shooting-and-working-in-severe-weather
Nightstalker865
10-16-14, 17:10
Kyle hit it right on the money. This is yet another reason the ELCAN is so popular.
I can't think if I've ever been in a Central Florida rain storm that water on my optic stopped me from hitting my target.
Water blocking my sight picture, water soaked through my hat into my eyes, water on my glasses....all yes. Never an issue with an Aimpoint micro or a TR24 when shooting in the rain.
Now dust storms and whatever you guys deal in Iraqistan or out West, I wouldn't change anything. My rifle is already black/fde, so that would probably blend in out there too. All my woodland camo pants and green gear would probably need to be changed..
I'd keep the 1-4 if I had it(still saving), as target discrimination becomes more important with dense cover.
Rain-x may be useful on the lenses.
I'd keep the rest the same for right now.
I just did a patrol rifle Qual a few weeks ago in the pissing rain. The eotech reticle was good to go. However, the back side of the sight window collected water something fierce when slung. I eventually started covering it with my off side hand during down time between drills.
Once Tempe rifle was shouldered most of water would fall down. It was a hindrance but not impossible to the point where I thought about taking it off.
Of course my iron sight aperture was also bubbling over during zeroing. That was a pain in the ass since I could t maintain a constant cheekweld shot to shot.
Good info. Thanks.
I'd keep the 1-4 if I had it(still saving), as target discrimination becomes more important with dense cover.
Rain-x may be useful on the lenses.
I'd keep the rest the same for right now.
I would advise against putting any kind of chemical compound other than water or lens cleaner on your optic. This could damage the coatings making your scope less effective, and void the warranty. Pretty much water is all you should out in then according to most manufacturers.
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turnburglar
10-17-14, 20:10
Iv had far more issues with my m68 fogging over water logged. However as I only went to Afghanistan and not Vietnam, I'd be more concerned about switching lube than anything else.
I'm actually in central America on vacation right now, and just learned the true meaning of "rain forest". Basically plan on scuba ops and you'll be straight in the jungles.
BufordTJustice
10-17-14, 20:39
I would advise against putting any kind of chemical compound other than water or lens cleaner on your optic. This could damage the coatings making your scope less effective, and void the warranty. Pretty much water is all you should out in then according to most manufacturers.
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Agreed. Most quality lenses have a hydrophobic coating anyway.
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