View Full Version : How do you break an 870?
What are some of the common failures that occur in 870s over time? They seem pretty bombproof.
A broken ejector spring is the only failure I've ever seen that could put the gun out of action. And the 870 I saw with the broken spring still worked and ejected. The other one I've not witnessed, but heard about, is the aluminum trigger guard breaking during a nasty fall. Still, the gun will work fine.
Other than that, it's just a matter of parts wearing with use, and I mean a LOT of use. The only two parts I've seen that were worn on more than a handful of guns are the carrier dog follower spring, and the magazine spring.
In real old guns, you can run into issues where the the CDF spring is weak, and can't quite lift the carrier quick enough, resulting in the bolt ramming the shell into the bottom of the barrel. I've also seen it in some new guns. It's a $6 part, buy 2 or 3 of the Police model CDF springs (which are stronger than the Express and Wingmaster CDF springs), and you're set for life.
And people debate whether leaving the shotgun loaded, or loading/unloading is the cause of magazine spring wear, but regardless of the cause, I've handled a lot of older 870's that could benefit from a replacement. Again, a Wilson Combat spring will run you about $7. Buy 2-3, set for life.
I also have an extra extractor floating around, but I haven't seen one break before and don't really expect to ever need it.
I think they are overall bombproof.
First down load the Model 870 Parts Schematic on this page - http://www.remington.com/pages/support/parts-information.aspx
I'll refer to the parts by number on the schematic.
1) The ejector (#17) is located on the left side of the receiver - you look at it through the open ejection port - as the previous poster mention sometimes the ejector spring breaks or somehow gets bent out of shape. At the front end of the ejector is a tip - it goes into a corresponding slot on the barrel when the barrel is installed. This tip often breaks. If this happens the barrel can shift a little bit which can cause functioning problems as well as change in point of impact.
2) Another breakage in high-mileage 870's are the action bar arms (#28) - you'll generally know it if one of them breaks the shotgun will either not cycle, or will be rough as a cobb.
3) Firing pin springs (#26) sometimes break - older ones, and most after market ones, would sometimes intertwine as shown in the picture of post #1 of this thread - http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?83589-Remington-870-Firing-Pin-Spring-Breakage
Remington fixed this problem by making the coils in the middle of the spring tighter so it couldn't intertwine if broken. Shown in this picture http://www.midwayusa.com/product/771884/remington-firing-pin-retractor-spring-870-1100
As a result of that fix, I usually find broken firing pin springs in police shotguns during armorer inspections rather than on the range. They still function.
4) A less common breakage on high-mileage shotguns is the action bar lock spring (#2). It is in the photo on the 5th post on this thread - http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=253799
If it breaks the action bar lock may not engage. If the action bar lock does not have up and down tension on it when the action is cocked, then the spring is most likely broken.
5) The 870's magazine tube's feed and stop latches (#55 and #56) are staked into the bottom left and right side of the receiver. If the trigger plate is removed often enough for cleaning they often come loose. This is actually pretty common. The front trigger plate pin goes through the hole on each of the latches, so one of them is loose and has slid forward or back, the plate pin holes in the receiver may be blocked.
They were loose on my first 870 which was old when I got it. Not knowing any better, I managed to hold them in place and reinstall the trigger plate - I though the shotgun was just a pain in the ass to take down and clean.
We have over two dozen training 870's which range from over 25 years to just a couple years old. These shotguns on average get around 3750 rounds of target (majority) buckshot and slug shot through them each year. We replace more action bar lock springs than extractors. Probably 1 or 2 ejectors a year, maybe 3 or 4 ejector springs. We usually replace 2 or 3 actions bars each year. And I really don't think more than a couple, at the most, firing pin springs. We stake a whole bunch of shell latches each year though - maybe we just don't do it right LOL.
I've only had to replace one detent ball on a barrel ring that I can recall. I've installed several in barrels that didn't have them and somehow got onto police weapons (not our training guns).
Hope this helps.
Easy to break an 870. The shell stops are just barely tacked into grooves in the receiver. The slightest rough handling when the gun is disassembled, and you'll knock 'em loose. Then it's either a trip to the Smith, or buy the $30 tool and do it yourself (that's what I did). Major weak point on the 870 is this engineering defect. If she goes down in the field, you are out of luck.
That's why I prefer the Winchester 1200 / 1300. Shell stop is riveted to the lockwork, which comes out in a piece upon disassembly, and presents no problems.
Thanks for the good info 26 Inf.
plouffedaddy
10-17-14, 21:09
You break it by buying an Express after the Freedom Group merger:
http://youtu.be/mw9_5JGCiWQ
You break it by buying an Express after the Freedom Group merger:
http://youtu.be/mw9_5JGCiWQ
Now THIS is gospel! I bought a Express 870. Brand spanking new in the box. I brought it home. I took it out of the box. I racked the slide and it locked up on me. I took it back to the store. They couldn't get it to work either. They pulled another out of a box, brand new. It locked up on them then and there. They gave me my money back. I went out and bought a good used Wingmaster 870. No problema.
New 870s are Junk.
You break it by buying an Express after the Freedom Group merger:
http://youtu.be/mw9_5JGCiWQ
Well, I was going to say something, but then you pretty much took the cake. Sad too since I find the 870 to balance better than most pumps for me. Still on the look out for a good 870 to build into a Hd shotgun just to have. After the new year I am thinking of tracking down a used Police model.
What are some of the common failures that occur in 870s over time? They seem pretty bombproof.
I could be wrong, but I don't think "bombproof" was used to describe the cheaper Express models. I believe the OP meant the 870 Police. The good info provided by 26 Inf also seems to be about the 870 Police Magnum. I own two and would call them bombproof.
I could be wrong, but I don't think "bombproof" was used to describe the cheaper Express models. I believe the OP meant the 870 Police. The good info provided by 26 Inf also seems to be about the 870 Police Magnum. I own two and would call them bombproof.
The Express and Police are not as different as people think. Same fire control components, same receivers, same barrels, same magazine tubes as any other 870 that comes with an extension (Marine, Police, and certain Express models), even the same furniture now... same everything except for the finish and three small parts... The carrier dog follower spring, the extractor, and the trigger guard.
The Police has a compressed aluminum trigger guard. It costs roughly the same as the polymer. Since we're talking "bombproof", it's worth mentioning that Ruger demonstrated in their own trigger guard testing that a compressed aluminum trigger guard was more prone to failure than a polymer one. I'm inclined to prefer polymer for anything but 870's I just want to stare at or fondle.
The Police also has a stronger carrier dog follower spring than the other 870's. That's the spring responsible for moving the carrier up to put the shell in line with the bore. It's a $6 part, and a necessary upgrade to any non-Police model IMO.
Lastly, the Police has a milled extractor, as opposed to the Express and Wingmaster, which have a MIM extractor. It's a $17 part for the milled one, and requires minor fitting in guns that came with a MIM extractor. I have never seen a MIM or milled extractor fail on an 870. I have seen both have problems early on, and just needed replacing, and I've seen both work down after many thousands of rounds. But never seen one break.
Basically, an 870 is an 870 is an 870. Your money, with the Police, goes to the finish, $30 or so in parts, and greater attention to QC. Personally, I'm content with either so long as it runs. I've really been eyeing the 14" 870P SBS lately.
I have a new 870 Police that came with the polymer trigger guard. Maybe Remington is going in that direction now.
I have a new 870 Police that came with the polymer trigger guard. Maybe Remington is going in that direction now.
That's interesting. I do love the feel of the metal guard, but I'm a believer that the polymer is just a more durable choice. Plus, I doubt there's a big difference in price for Remington to make either one, considering they sell for about the same price aftermarket.
I think they are overall bombproof.
First down load the Model 870 Parts Schematic on this page - http://www.remington.com/pages/support/parts-information.aspx
I'll refer to the parts by number on the schematic.
1) The ejector (#17) is located on the left side of the receiver - you look at it through the open ejection port - as the previous poster mention sometimes the ejector spring breaks or somehow gets bent out of shape. At the front end of the ejector is a tip - it goes into a corresponding slot on the barrel when the barrel is installed. This tip often breaks. If this happens the barrel can shift a little bit which can cause functioning problems as well as change in point of impact.
2) Another breakage in high-mileage 870's are the action bar arms (#28) - you'll generally know it if one of them breaks the shotgun will either not cycle, or will be rough as a cobb.
3) Firing pin springs (#26) sometimes break - older ones, and most after market ones, would sometimes intertwine as shown in the picture of post #1 of this thread - http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?83589-Remington-870-Firing-Pin-Spring-Breakage
Remington fixed this problem by making the coils in the middle of the spring tighter so it couldn't intertwine if broken. Shown in this picture http://www.midwayusa.com/product/771884/remington-firing-pin-retractor-spring-870-1100
As a result of that fix, I usually find broken firing pin springs in police shotguns during armorer inspections rather than on the range. They still function.
4) A less common breakage on high-mileage shotguns is the action bar lock spring (#2). It is in the photo on the 5th post on this thread - http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=253799
If it breaks the action bar lock may not engage. If the action bar lock does not have up and down tension on it when the action is cocked, then the spring is most likely broken.
5) The 870's magazine tube's feed and stop latches (#55 and #56) are staked into the bottom left and right side of the receiver. If the trigger plate is removed often enough for cleaning they often come loose. This is actually pretty common. The front trigger plate pin goes through the hole on each of the latches, so one of them is loose and has slid forward or back, the plate pin holes in the receiver may be blocked.
They were loose on my first 870 which was old when I got it. Not knowing any better, I managed to hold them in place and reinstall the trigger plate - I though the shotgun was just a pain in the ass to take down and clean.
We have over two dozen training 870's which range from over 25 years to just a couple years old. These shotguns on average get around 3750 rounds of target (majority) buckshot and slug shot through them each year. We replace more action bar lock springs than extractors. Probably 1 or 2 ejectors a year, maybe 3 or 4 ejector springs. We usually replace 2 or 3 actions bars each year. And I really don't think more than a couple, at the most, firing pin springs. We stake a whole bunch of shell latches each year though - maybe we just don't do it right LOL.
I've only had to replace one detent ball on a barrel ring that I can recall. I've installed several in barrels that didn't have them and somehow got onto police weapons (not our training guns).
Hope this helps.
WOW, extremely clear post WITH links AND their respective post numbers, reference pictures, etc. EXCELLENT for someone with weak computer-fu skills like me. Thanks.
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