View Full Version : Which Leupold scope for an AR
I've just gotten a BCM 16" rifle. I'm debating two optic options. I have on hand a VX III 3.5-10x50 in an A.R.M.S. mount. The LGS has an MK AR 1.5-4x20 with what they are calling "a tactical mount $100 value" included on sale for $350. I don't expect to be shooting beyond 200 yards/meters or so and usually half or less than that. So, do I want to use the big scope I already have or go with the probably much lighter MK AR.
What will be the rifle's primary purpose?
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It's just for fun and to compare/compete with myself from one range session to another.
Look at the SPR Patrol. Put it in an AP mount. I don't think you will find a lighter setup. It's pretty fast at close range and the dot is small enough to effective at the ranges you are talking about.
Voodoo_Man
10-18-14, 07:23
my review of the 1.5-4x VX-R Patrol
http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2013/10/leupold-vx-r-patrol-125-4x20-firedot-on.html
Worth reading as it may give you something to consider outside of what you were looking at.
It is also a review of the LaRue SPR mount.
I didn't follow the advise in Voodoo's review, and bought a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 for my BCM recce, it lasted all of three rounds before it lost zero... I was rather put out by this and so soured by the experience that it I predict it will greatly influence my future purchases.
My 10ish year old VXII 1-4x20 is mounted on an older LMT and still working just fine, I got maybe 2,500 rounds through it.
Wish I bought the VX-R Patrol.
Voodoo_Man
10-18-14, 09:17
I didn't follow the advise in Voodoo's review, and bought a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 for my BCM recce, it lasted all of three rounds before it lost zero... I was rather put out by this and so soured by the experience that it I predict it will greatly influence my future purchases.
My 10ish year old VXII 1-4x20 is mounted on an older LMT and still working just fine, I got maybe 2,500 rounds through it.
Wish I bought the VX-R Patrol.
What kind of mount did you use for your PST?
The Viper PST is an awesome optic, I have finger banged it on various occasions but, as many know, the optic is only as good as the mount/rings you use for it.
I purchased the PST and put it in an ADM mount. I only have about 200 rounds through it. No issues. I was looking at the Leupold Patrol optic but i didnt want target turrets on a low powered scope like that. Leuopld should offer a capped version
I'm interested too. I have one I use occasionally on various setups, and never had a problem. Using larue or badger though. Mount or rings mean everything. Ask me and my Barrett how I know...
I have a Mk4 MR/T 1.25x5 with the CMR2 reticle and love it.... It does everything I need and want it to do very well. I have it sitting in an ADM Recon mount and they make a great combination.
Voodoo_Man
10-18-14, 10:03
I'm interested too. I have one I use occasionally on various setups, and never had a problem. Using larue or badger though. Mount or rings mean everything. Ask me and my Barrett how I know...
That Barrett probably gives every mounting solution on the planet a run for its money.
I honestly believe optic mount should be tested on Barrett 50's of around 50 rounds to see if they hold up.
That Barrett probably gives every mounting solution on the planet a run for its money.
I honestly believe optic mount should be tested on Barrett 50's of around 50 rounds to see if they hold up.
I second this motion. I have dead Bushnell and Leupold scopes thrown in the trash because of using cheap mounts on my model 99 bolt. Learn from my my mistakes, as this wasn't cheap.
What kind of mount did you use for your PST?
The Viper PST is an awesome optic, I have finger banged it on various occasions but, as many know, the optic is only as good as the mount/rings you use for it.
Used a LaRue LT 104, same as on my other AR's. Barrel is 1-8 stainless. Trigger is Geissele. Ammo was m855, mk318, Fed MSR 62gr, SSA 64gr bonded, and BH/SSA 77gr SMK's. Was shooting from sand bags on a concrete bench.
Visible movement to the reticle when dry firing. Ser# of the optic was very low, but I bought it new from a LGS back in March. We'll see what happens when it gets back. My shooting abilities are on the decline to be sure, but it wasn't me this time as the BUIS were dead on at 200.
I purchased the PST and put it in an ADM mount. I only have about 200 rounds through it. No issues. I was looking at the Leupold Patrol optic but i didnt want target turrets on a low powered scope like that. Leuopld should offer a capped version
The capped turrets were the main reason I went with the PST. I've got 200 rounds through mine also... Does your reticle go dark sometimes? On max settings with a light colored background there was no illumination at all.
Did you ever find a set of caps. Wondering how the rear cap fits.
Thanks for the review.
my review of the 1.5-4x VX-R Patrol
http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2013/10/leupold-vx-r-patrol-125-4x20-firedot-on.html
Worth reading as it may give you something to consider outside of what you were looking at.
It is also a review of the LaRue SPR mount.
Failure2Stop
10-18-14, 13:49
I've just gotten a BCM 16" rifle. I'm debating two optic options. I have on hand a VX III 3.5-10x50 in an A.R.M.S. mount. The LGS has an MK AR 1.5-4x20 with what they are calling "a tactical mount $100 value" included on sale for $350. I don't expect to be shooting beyond 200 yards/meters or so and usually half or less than that. So, do I want to use the big scope I already have or go with the probably much lighter MK AR.
Those two choices are oriented to significantly different applications, and both are way behind the state of the industry.
If 100 yard accuracy is your metric, then the 3.5-10 is ok. I'd recommend a better mount, but that's up to you.
The Mk AR line is way below Leupold's Tactical line, and other similar products. That said, a low powered variable is probably the most useful optic that can be put on a 14.5"-16" 5.56 rifle that isn't oriented to precision tasks.
Those two choices are oriented to significantly different applications, and both are way behind the state of the industry.
If 100 yard accuracy is your metric, then the 3.5-10 is ok. I'd recommend a better mount, but that's up to you.
The Mk AR line is way below Leupold's Tactical line, and other similar products. That said, a low powered variable is probably the most useful optic that can be put on a 14.5"-16" 5.56 rifle that isn't oriented to precision tasks.
Pretty much everything he said. The VXIII series are hunting scopes and they were excellent 10+ years ago. They will of course still work, but the VXR Patrol or something along those lines from another maker would be far more useful on your rifle. The MK AR line has about the worst clarity I've ever seen in a Leupy scope. Almost like they weren't even trying.
I'm really happy with the VXR Patrol I have on one of my AR's.
Failure2Stop
10-18-14, 14:31
That Barrett probably gives every mounting solution on the planet a run for its money.
I honestly believe optic mount should be tested on Barrett 50's of around 50 rounds to see if they hold up.
The M82 weighs 31 pounds, has a recoil velocity of 16.9 f/s, with a KE of 40.5 ft-lbs.
An 870 weighs around 7lbs, has a recoil velocity of 20.1 f/s with a KE of 43.9 ft-lbs when fired with premium 00, higher with slugs.
Source: http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA561571
Just some food for thought.
Voodoo_Man
10-18-14, 14:59
The M82 weighs 31 pounds, has a recoil velocity of 16.9 f/s, with a KE of 40.5 ft-lbs.
An 870 weighs around 7lbs, has a recoil velocity of 20.1 f/s with a KE of 43.9 ft-lbs when fired with premium 00, higher with slugs.
Source: http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA561571
Just some food for thought.
So what you are saying is put optics in mounts I plan to use my 870 and shoot slugs out of it and see what happens to the zero?
Challenge accepted.
Voodoo_Man
10-18-14, 14:59
Used a LaRue LT 104, same as on my other AR's. Barrel is 1-8 stainless. Trigger is Geissele. Ammo was m855, mk318, Fed MSR 62gr, SSA 64gr bonded, and BH/SSA 77gr SMK's. Was shooting from sand bags on a concrete bench.
Visible movement to the reticle when dry firing. Ser# of the optic was very low, but I bought it new from a LGS back in March. We'll see what happens when it gets back. My shooting abilities are on the decline to be sure, but it wasn't me this time as the BUIS were dead on at 200.
Update us on your progress when you get it back.
3.5" Goose loads out of a pump gun will rock your world and then some.
The capped turrets were the main reason I went with the PST. I've got 200 rounds through mine also... Does your reticle go dark sometimes? On max settings with a light colored background there was no illumination at all.
No issues with mine
Update us on your progress when you get it back.
10-4, I'll catch up with you here or there or somewhere.
My apologizes to Vortex...They returned the suspect Viper PST within a weeks time (pretty impressive) saying it checks out just fine and suggesting I had the rings over tightened, I'll take their word for it and try it again.
conecommander
10-29-14, 17:33
The Mk AR line is way below Leupold's Tactical line, and other similar products. That said, a low powered variable is probably the most useful optic that can be put on a 14.5"-16" 5.56 rifle that isn't oriented to precision tasks.
If you don't mind elaborating, what exactly puts the Mk AR way below the tactical line? What would you consider a similar product here, the VX-R Patrol, PST, etc.? As far as I knew, and it is listed this way on Leupold.com, that the Mk AR series are part of the tactical lineup. Just trying to better understand. It's rare I get to "finger bang" scopes and I rely on the internet for decision making.
I have two of the mod 1's in the 1.5-4 variety. I am relatively happy with them, but I don't have much frame of reference either. I am in the market for a mid range scope, and I would really appreciate your input on what is separating the scopes so much from a quality perspective.
Look at the SPR Patrol. Put it in an AP mount. I don't think you will find a lighter setup. It's pretty fast at close range and the dot is small enough to effective at the ranges you are talking about.
Are there links to the SPR Patrol and the AP mount?
3.5" Goose loads out of a pump gun will rock your world and then some.
3.5" Heavy Turkey loads are worse. Though, they do make 3" turkey loads feel light in comparison...
Are there links to the SPR Patrol and the AP mount?
http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/vx-r-patrol/vx-r-patrol-1-25-4x20mm-30mm/
http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aspx/store/listing.aspx?catid=3
The patrol line sure is nice for the money. (been running the 3-9) I wished they made a vxr 1-6 tmr or mildot, keep the fire dot system, add night vision setting, and locking turrets. 15-17 oz weight. Charge 600-800.
That would be a dream come true.
MikeDawg46L
10-30-14, 21:34
If you don't mind elaborating, what exactly puts the Mk AR way below the tactical line? What would you consider a similar product here, the VX-R Patrol, PST, etc.? As far as I knew, and it is listed this way on Leupold.com, that the Mk AR series are part of the tactical lineup. Just trying to better understand. It's rare I get to "finger bang" scopes and I rely on the internet for decision making.
I have two of the mod 1's in the 1.5-4 variety. I am relatively happy with them, but I don't have much frame of reference either. I am in the market for a mid range scope, and I would really appreciate your input on what is separating the scopes so much from a quality perspective.
I'll jump in here and give my opinion in hopes that it answers your question.
1) 1" tube vs 30mm
2) glass quality
Honestly, I don't like the SPR reticle in either of the scopes. The Firedot illumination is great, but the lack of Mil or MOA subtensions is just disturbing. It is difficult to use the reticle to range, and shooting for any sort of accuracy quickly is very difficult.
2.5 MOA stadia...just damn.
After having both a Mark AR Mod 1 and VXR Patrol, both with Firedot SPR reticles, I'm very happy that I chose to get a Mark 6. It has a very useable reticle and serves me and my Noveske Recce very well.
Tapatalk'd
I'll jump in here and give my opinion in hopes that it answers your question.
1) 1" tube vs 30mm
2) glass quality
Honestly, I don't like the SPR reticle in either of the scopes. The Firedot illumination is great, but the lack of Mil or MOA subtensions is just disturbing. It is difficult to use the reticle to range, and shooting for any sort of accuracy quickly is very difficult.
2.5 MOA stadia...just damn.
After having both a Mark AR Mod 1 and VXR Patrol, both with Firedot SPR reticles, I'm very happy that I chose to get a Mark 6. It has a very useable reticle and serves me and my Noveske Recce very well.
Tapatalk'd
Which reticle are you using in the mark 6?
MikeDawg46L
10-30-14, 22:29
Which reticle are you using in the mark 6?
CMR-W 5.56
Tapatalk'd
CMR-W 5.56
Tapatalk'd
Do you like it or wished you went with the tmr?
MikeDawg46L
10-31-14, 10:15
I like it. Wasn't a fan of the illumination on the TMR.
I load all of my cartridges and I'm able to work up some 69gr loads that are very close in velocity in my 16" to the M855 in a 14.5", which is what the reticle is calibrated to. I don't have the ability to shoot beyond 400m, but according some ballistics calculators I've plugged the data into, the reticle is very close with my load out to about 500m.
Tapatalk'd
What didn't you like about the illumination on the tmr?
I'm really interested in mk6 with a cmr, I just haven't found anywhere near me to look through one. I'll have to start calling out of my area. It's a lot of dough for a mk6, just want to be sure I actually like it.
Might just have to wait until shot show to see one.
MikeDawg46L
10-31-14, 12:54
The TMR just didn't give the "red dot" feel that I was looking for on 1x.
To be honest, I've never cared for any BDC reticle other than the ACOG, but CMR is very similar and has the 5 MIL stadia to the left of the horseshoe. Like I mentioned before, it's a very useable reticle for my application.
I didn't have access to look through one before buying either but have owned and used quite a few Leupold scopes. Their high end stuff does not disappoint and I'm very happy with the MK6. I don't know that there is a better scope for the Recce role out there, though I am still very curious about the VCOG.
Tapatalk'd
To bad the vcog doesn't have wind holds. That's the main reason I keep thinking of the cmr.
MikeDawg46L
10-31-14, 15:53
Good to have, though I've yet to use them.
Tapatalk'd
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