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View Full Version : Would This Be A Genuine SF Patch...?


SteyrAUG
10-19-14, 19:53
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vietnam-War-Patch-US-5th-Special-Forces-Group-MACV-SOG-RT-ALASKA-CCN-/371167956045?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item566b558c4d

Listed as original and period, but would a SF groups (especially one associated with SOG) really have their state of origin identified on the patch?

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/KVAAAOSwDN1UQwZ8/$_57.JPG
HKGuns
10-19-14, 20:38
No clue, but SOCNET might be another place to post the question.....If you're enlisted there.
scoutfsu99
10-19-14, 21:03
I don't know if it's genuine but there were quite a few RT's. Off the top of my head, RT Utah, Maine, Montana....I can't give the rhyme or reason for the nomenclature but SOCNET 100% could.
AKDoug
10-20-14, 01:01
RT Alaska is a legit recon team. The name of the team had nothing to do with the state they were from. The only RT patches I have seen before you posted that one were round.
SteyrAUG
10-20-14, 01:40
RT Alaska is a legit recon team. The name of the team had nothing to do with the state they were from. The only RT patches I have seen before you posted that one were round.


So was the state actually something like a call sign? I'm just starting to get into this stuff to add to my WWI / WWII military collection and while I can spot fake Nazi SS stuff a mile away the whole green beret stuff is new to me, especially trying to determine what is period vs. later issue. But it's a completely fascinating area of collecting to explore.

I'm also certain their is a cottage industry in Vietnam knocking out the fakes and I want to make sure I'm not supporting them.
Belmont31R
10-20-14, 01:45
So was the state actually something like a call sign? I'm just starting to get into this stuff to add to my WWI / WWII military collection and while I can spot fake Nazi SS stuff a mile away the whole green beret stuff is new to me, especially trying to determine what is period vs. later issue. But it's a completely fascinating area of collecting to explore.

I'm also certain their is a cottage industry in Vietnam knocking out the fakes and I want to make sure I'm not supporting them.



Yes. They had teams based of state's for call signs. John Plaster books are good if you want to get into Vietnam SOG history.


As for the patch thats way out of my league but I think the suggestions you got already are solid.
uffdaphil
10-20-14, 03:55
I would give good odds the only thing authentic about the SOG patches on ebay is that they are made cheaply in Asia. Design may be correct, but each team member would have had to have brought home 10,000 patches for them to be original. I'm not up on militaria patches, but real SOG items would be so rare I expect they would sell for multiples of listing price.
Iraqgunz
10-20-14, 04:28
Most of the original patches like that are worth a lot more than a few dollars. They are usually collectibles.
SteyrAUG
10-20-14, 14:12
I would give good odds the only thing authentic about the SOG patches on ebay is that they are made cheaply in Asia. Design may be correct, but each team member would have had to have brought home 10,000 patches for them to be original. I'm not up on militaria patches, but real SOG items would be so rare I expect they would sell for multiples of listing price.


That's what worries me. At the same time, the open market of ebay has destroyed the value of things that were once "collectible" in the 1970s. I've seen some "definitely authentic" WWII items lose nearly all their value because the grandkids or great grandkids don't care and put it all on ebay.

SOG of course is a little different but a lot of Vietnam era stuff is bottomed out as far as collector prices.
SOWT
10-20-14, 16:16
Good shape for a 40-50 Year Old Patch.
IIRC those were made locally, so it would have spent time exposed to VN, that one looks better then new.
Sam
10-20-14, 21:27
Good shape for a 40-50 Year Old Patch.
IIRC those were made locally, so it would have spent time exposed to VN, that one looks better then new.

This assessment is in line with what my friend said. He said that most if not all of the actual team patches were sewn by the local Vietnamese ladies living near their camps. He said you can tell that they were home made. This patch looks like it was massed produced by professionals. He said there are very few actual team patches left. As the old members dies, whatever patches were left are forgotten, buried under a pile of stinky old relics, deteriorated, lost, destroyed by time. He can't even remember where his own patches are after 50 years.

As far as the team names, he said there were "state" name teams and "snake" name teams, they were assigned to teams in different regions. The name of the state has nothing to do with the actual origins of the team members or where they originated. It was just names.
SteyrAUG
10-20-14, 21:37
This assessment is in line with what my friend said. He said that most if not all of the actual team patches were sewn by the local Vietnamese ladies living near their camps. He said you can tell that they were home made. This patch looks like it was massed produced by professionals. He said there are very few actual team patches left. As the old members dies, whatever patches were left are forgotten, buried under a pile of stinky old relics, deteriorated, lost, destroyed by time. He can't even remember where his own patches are after 50 years.

As far as the team names, he said there were "state" name teams and "snake" name teams, they were assigned to teams in different regions. The name of the state has nothing to do with the actual origins of the team members or where they originated. It was just names.

Thanks for weighting in. Probably the case. Sad actually. While I looked for everything I could, I know there is a bunch of my grandfathers stuff somewhere under piles of crap that I'll never get. Most frustrating of all, I found the sheath for his air force survival knife but not the knife itself.

It's really sad to think about the same thing happening to guys who were members of special forces in Vietnam. They did so much for so little reward they at a minimum deserve to have their relics preserved. Just one more way those who fought in Vietnam are being forgotten IMO.

Really wanted these items to be genuine, but gonna have to face reality and the last thing I really want to do is fund those who fought us not so long ago. Buying "knockoff" SF patches (which probably are being made in Vietnam) would just be adding insult to injury.