View Full Version : Hodge Defense AU Mod 2
For those who get it, its here..............
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/10/20/hodge-defense-au-mod-2-details-emerge/
For those who don't get it, read this train wreck of a thread: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?157015-Hodge-Defense-Best-Carbine-money-can-buy
i like the rail and ambi controls.Interested to see the street price on these and see one in person
Is Mega Machine at all involved with this? I feel like I recognize some of the visual queues.
JBecker 72
10-20-14, 21:02
I doubt I'd ever buy one, but these rifles do interest me. Seems like this has some cool material tech going into it.
It's good to have options that aim for higher quality. I'm anxious to see how the Hodge rifles perform, and if their quality is proven. It would be nice to have a Texas company to support.
Very cool. Looking forward to seeing these.
I'm a fan of positive innovation in whatever form it may be I'm looking forward to this. If the guns run, everybody wins I think.
Wonder how much lighter it is?
Wonder how much lighter it is?
There is a lot of wondering to be done here… apparently you are meant to just 'get it'. Unfortunately, especially with the lack of actual info am not one of those who 'get it'.
I am interested in new products and new materials being brought to market. What I am not interested in is a gun where I can not know what makes it 'special', I'm just meant to 'get it' and take other peoples word for it. Not where my money will go.
I would be interested if this material is worth while if other manufacturers will use it. I have a feeling its going to be cost prohibitive and not have a good cost benefit ratio
There is a lot of wondering to be done here… apparently you are meant to just 'get it'. Unfortunately, especially with the lack of actual info am not one of those who 'get it'.
Their website sucks with no relevant detail. I would love to have the opportunity to check one out.
jerrysimons
10-21-14, 16:25
Seriously naysayers? I think many of you are just looking for a whipping boy.
What is so ambiguous about the details in the SS post?
-Forged Aluminum-lithium: lighter, stronger, high corrosion resistance; allows for thicker reciever walls that yield even higher strength returns over 7075 aluminum by allowing for more material while still coming in at the same weight as 7075 receivers. Al-Li alone is stronger without the added dimensions.
-Ti barrel nut: stronger, lighter.
-Brilliant rail design: ergonomics unparralled. I have held it, It does not feel like a sheet metal tube like my NSRs and KMRs. -patent pending, innovative rail lock up method: locks rock solid to barrel nut
-Ambi controls
-Premium parts selection
-Obsessive quality in assembly and component material selection
There is no doubt serious design improvemts are going into the AU Mod 2.
JBecker 72
10-21-14, 16:26
This Mod 2 is using materials which are designed to reduce weight without sacrificing strength. New tech that is moving the industry forward. Besides, it's not like the Mod 1 was anything over the top in price compared to some of the other boutique rifles on the market. Comparing it to Travis Haley's BCM and Chris Costa's Larue rifles the Mod 1 seems like a reasonably priced rifle. Looking at the cost and quality of the components it comes with, and the fact it's made by a small shop should weigh into your decision as to whether or not it's worth $2,000. I spent that much money on a BCM SOPMOD Block II clone rifle. And that doesn't include the optic or weapon light.
This forum seems to be sliding down the hill with regard to the quality of posts, and the Hodge threads are perfect examples of it.
JBecker 72
10-21-14, 17:19
These rifles are using higher end parts that will obviously add to the price.
Bar stock machined pins, forward assist, safety, etc.
Geissele rails and triggers
Very high precision upper and lower receivers for a quality fit
It's not like he is using no name products and passing it off as high quality like some boutique rifles have been. He is using quality parts and going above and beyond with regard to fit and finish.
It would be nice to have a discussion about these rifles without the threads getting locked when people start throwing their own crap around.
As you can see in the provided instructional video, just like Hodge's rifles, the Ultimate HiPoint is no ordinary HiPoint. Or have you yourself handled one to be able to come to this conclusion? I am providing additional accoutrement for the discerning operator.
Isn't there also a rule about not personally attacking others by doing such things as name calling? Isn't it ironic how that doesn't seem to stem the flow of posters doing it anyway?
If you don't know anything about the company, owner or rifle, it is is best to not speak.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
If you don't know anything about the company, owner or rifle, it is is best to not speak.
C4
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Can you enlighten the rest of us who aren't "in the know"?
JBecker 72
10-21-14, 21:11
Can you enlighten the rest of us who aren't "in the know"?
If you can sift through the BS the previous thread had some good info in it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?157015-Hodge-Defense-Best-Carbine-money-can-buy
jerrysimons
10-21-14, 23:23
If you can't help yourselves to read I don't think anybody "in the know" will be able to enlighten you. Details have been published, make your own judgements, but stop with the whining that rightful information has been withheld from you. Some are too busy scoffing at a new company to see what is in front of them.
I think the question of necessary receiver strength is worth asking, the popularity on the Vltor MUR and how it has fared in documented kabooms is enough to convince me of the benefits of added strength of either material or dimensions. In the case of the AU Mod 2 it is both where you have a huge increase in strength with no weight increase.
If you can sift through the BS the previous thread had some good info in it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?157015-Hodge-Defense-Best-Carbine-money-can-buy
Thanks man.
If you can't help yourselves to read I don't think anybody "in the know" will be able to enlighten you. Details have been published, make your own judgements, but stop with the whining that rightful information has been withheld from you. Some are too busy scoffing at a new company to see what is in front of them.
Please, do point to where I was whining. No luck? Didn't think so. I don't think my question was directed to you, so you can keep that smartass response to yourself next time.
@CodeRed30:
Ease off the gas, I think he was referring to ColtSeavers.
FIRST AND LAST WARNING. ANY MORE BULLSHIT AND IT'S MILLER TIME. Discuss why it's the best thing since St. Louis ribs, or the worst thing since the Yugo. It would be helpful to ask pointed questions or make valid observations.
I for one am extremely excited about this.
I hope they sell matching receiver sets in AlLi. Also, that rail looks like a viable competitor to the BCM KMR assuming the AlLi rail is comparatively lighter than traditional aluminium.
Competition is a good thing. As is innovation in metallurgy.
Question: Can anybody who has handled one say if the handguard inside diameter is 1.5" or greater to allow for a suppressor? Doesn't look like it from the photos, but I can't be sure.
It would be very cool if they were to sell matching receiver sets.
PatrioticDisorder
10-22-14, 06:23
I think the question of necessary receiver strength is worth asking, the popularity on the Vltor MUR and how it has fared in documented kabooms is enough to convince me of the benefits of added strength of either material or dimensions. In the case of the AU Mod 2 it is both where you have a huge increase in strength with no weight increase.
Why not just use the MUR? I'm at the point where I think AR's are light enough, no need to tinker with unproven material...
jerrysimons
10-22-14, 07:07
Why not just use the MUR? I'm at the point where I think AR's are light enough, no need to tinker with unproven material...
MUR is a great option, but being that the forged Al-Li in mil-spec reciever dimensions is probably as strong as the beefed up forged aluminum MUR, I would wager the Al-Li AU Mod 2, with its own beefed up dimensions, is even stronger than the MUR. All that strength for no increase in weight over a forged mil-spec upper is impressive. The only way to prove the material is to prove it. Bomb proof is Hodge Defense's modus operandi.
Mig1nc, I don't think the rail has an inner diameter that would house a suppressor. It feels similar in circumference to an NSR or KMR, save for feeling like it was sculpted for your hand.
AlLI has been used quite extensively in airliner and helicopter airframes and has proven to be durable in those applications. It will be interesting to see how it performs as a rifle building material. I think it would make a great rail.
Grant-
I think people get a little frustrated by others saying "I can't tell you why, just trust me it's great". It's like in middle school when your friends wouldn't tell you who had a crush on you.
What I want to add to the thread: they say the new receivers are stronger. While it would be great if everything was as light as a feather, yet could survive in Jupiter's gravity.... Does anyone want or need a stronger receiver? Besides a 249 meeting an mrap door, Iv never seen the metals on any milspecrifle fail under normal use.
I am not sure if anyone has read the article I read (on page 1), but the article has lots of info in it with more to come. So no one is telling anyone what you are saying.
Be patient read the threads and wait.
C4
Can you enlighten the rest of us who aren't "in the know"?
The owner of the company is an extremely well connected guy that has done consulting work in the firearms industry for a very long time. Every person I respect knows him.
I have only talked to him on the phone one time, but was impressed with his knowledge (doesn't happen often in this industry) and his interest to IMPROVE the AR platform. We need more people like this I think.
C4
I posted this thread for those who are genuinely interested in this rifle and to have a discussion about it. I did not post it for naysayers and haters to clutter with BS. I wouldn't post BS in your thread and I ask that you don't post it in mine.
I'm excited to get my hands on one of these in the future and I think the receiver sets will be awesome for the market. Either way, stronger/lighter is pretty much always better in my book.
I don't get why this gun draws so much ire. It's not going to hurt your BCM's value or standing in the community.
There is a lot of wondering to be done here… apparently you are meant to just 'get it'. Unfortunately, especially with the lack of actual info am not one of those who 'get it'.
-What are you looking for? You have been given corrosion, strength, and dimensional data, as well as the general alloy type.
I am interested in new products and new materials being brought to market. What I am not interested in is a gun where I can not know what makes it 'special', I'm just meant to 'get it' and take other peoples word for it. Not where my money will go.
-It's the only gun out there using LiAl. It has a Ti barrel nut. The small parts are all billet. The barrel is hammer forged. The BCG is a quality QPQ unit. The rail is slim, sexy, and light, and offered in MLOK or Keymod. The lower is, as you can see, a very nicely executed Ambi design.
I would be interested if this material is worth while if other manufacturers will use it. I have a feeling its going to be cost prohibitive and not have a good cost benefit ratio
I suspect it will retail similarly to the other weapons which offer similar "custom" type features (ambi lowers, "billet looking" uppers and lowers, although this one has the looks while being Forged), such as Noveske, LaRue, etc.
If you can't help yourselves to read I don't think anybody "in the know" will be able to enlighten you. Details have been published, make your own judgements, but stop with the whining that rightful information has been withheld from you. Some are too busy scoffing at a new company to see what is in front of them.
I think the question of necessary receiver strength is worth asking, the popularity on the Vltor MUR and how it has fared in documented kabooms is enough to convince me of the benefits of added strength of either material or dimensions. In the case of the AU Mod 2 it is both where you have a huge increase in strength with no weight increase.
With this material, there is also less flex, which is good for those hanging cans on the end of the barrel, increases bolt life (as was discovered with Block II when they went to FF rails), and in general, is just a darn good thing with zero downside.
I for one am extremely excited about this.
I hope they sell matching receiver sets in AlLi. Also, that rail looks like a viable competitor to the BCM KMR assuming the AlLi rail is comparatively lighter than traditional aluminium.
Competition is a good thing. As is innovation in metallurgy.
Question: Can anybody who has handled one say if the handguard inside diameter is 1.5" or greater to allow for a suppressor? Doesn't look like it from the photos, but I can't be sure.
I do not believe you will be fitting a suppressor inside the rail. Yes, I've handled one.
No, the rail is not as light as the KMR, yes, the Hodge rail is a lot stronger. Weight/strength trade off, but it's no whale by ANY stretch, either.
I don't get why this gun draws so much ire.
Public schooling...
...and the unwillingness (often deliberate) to push one's self past the obvious limits of state-mandated standardized testing.
The owner of the company is an extremely well connected guy that has done consulting work in the firearms industry for a very long time. Every person I respect knows him.
I have only talked to him on the phone one time, but was impressed with his knowledge (doesn't happen often in this industry) and his interest to IMPROVE the AR platform. We need more people like this I think.
C4
Jim Hodge is a great guy, and it was a pleasure meeting him. I didn't stop there, though. I dug around as well, prior to meeting the man, and I could not talk to anyone without them saying "Oh, yeah, great guy!" etc. To say he is "well connected" is an understatement.
Public schooling...
...and the unwillingness (often deliberate) to push one's self past the obvious limits of state-mandated standardized testing.
It's deeper than that, I think...
This forum, as I understand, has been around a while. As have most others. The "Black Rifle" became and continues to become more and more popular. However, there was a "dark age" on the civilian side. Just ask Pat Rogers. He will tell you how many times he had to stop a class to fix all the loose gas keys, etc. "back in the day".
So we got things like "The Chart" as a way of trying to "vette" a rifle. To make sure it wasn't a POS, if you will.
The Chart and other guides like it were a great starting place. They kept the DPMS and Olympic Arms owners on notice and they staked the gas-keys themselves, or bought other rifles.
It was basically the "civilian mil-spec", if you will. People came to trust that if a rifle had certain things, it was g2g, based on a "standard".
Well...
...times have changed. New products are coming out and improvements are being made in materials and implementation at breakneck pace. QA/QC has taken a GIANT leap forward as many industry professionals are ALSO shooters, or are now at least willing to consult shooters. Top tier companies are producing "new stuff" that isn't junk...because they consult or are shooters who will thrash the gear before releasing it. The platform is matured GREATLY in the last decade. Advancements are really getting under way.
However...some people are still stuck in "the Chart Era". Think of it...and I am not at ALL trying to get religious (so lets just view this within the framework of the written article itself and not theologically!), it's just the best way I can make the allegory, as the OT vs. the NT Jews. Back in the OT, there were a TON of laws, etc. to keep everything on the straight and narrow. In the NT, a lot of those laws were done away with via fulfillment as superflous ("X number of steps allowed on the Holy Day, etc.")
Well...the AR world is somewhat at the same point...many rules that kept things straight are now hampering or superfluous, if doggedly stuck to.
If people will pay 4k for a Costa larue you'd be crazy to think people wouldnt pay 2k for this.I think if this comes out around 1650-1700$ street price it'll be a winner once some reviews gets posted.
I think at 2k it's got too much competition with the sr15.
If people will pay 4k for a Costa larue you'd be crazy to think people wouldnt pay 2k for this.I think if this comes out around 1650-1700$ street price it'll be a winner once some reviews gets posted.
I think at 2k it's got too much competition with the sr15.
I haven't seen this AR yet, but from what I know, there is probably nothing near it in the 2K range (read nothing beats it for the money).
C4
I haven't seen this AR yet, but from what I know, there is probably nothing near it in the 2K range (read nothing beats it for the money).
C4
I have never held another m4 with mod 2 level of fit and finish. Function I cannot speak on, as I have not shot one yet, but I bet it runs...
An AR with receivers forged from a lighter stronger alloy, manufactured under the aegis of a man like Jim Hodge? Yes, please
jerrysimons
10-22-14, 13:58
The only competition to the AU Mod 2 is Knight's SR15, IMO.
This will not be an inexpensive rifle though. A complete Noveske Gen 3 rifle is running close to $2500, you can bet the Mod 2 will be every bit of that.
I would love to see the Mod 2 with the AXTS Adac pin, THAT, would be supremely awesome.
This rifle interests me as well. I look forward to hearing more about it.
Cincinnatus
10-22-14, 17:06
An AR with receivers forged from a lighter stronger alloy, manufactured under the aegis of a man like Jim Hodge? Yes, please
I also can't wait to try one out.
ScatmanCrothers
10-22-14, 17:10
The only competition to the AU Mod 2 is Knight's SR15, IMO. In regards to what?
Some people might. But, remember the Costa/LaRue guns were limited edition. Also, the AR market is in bad shape and there are companies dumping BCG's, lowers, barrels, etc... on the market everywhere. The outlook at the NASGW was not good.
If people will pay 4k for a Costa larue you'd be crazy to think people wouldnt pay 2k for this.I think if this comes out around 1650-1700$ street price it'll be a winner once some reviews gets posted.
I think at 2k it's got too much competition with the sr15.
ColtSeavers
10-22-14, 18:16
With the exception of the Aluminum Lithium, there is nothing innovative and new about this rifle. Even the leaked weight of close to 6lbs. is a joke considering the hype over the weight savings and strength from using Aluminum Lithium.
Tuned GI trigger again? ALG QMS again...
Ambi lower? Never been done before... also appears to only be mag release?
Lightweight? Good God who hasn't done this? V7 has a great lightweight upper that's only 7.7 oz.
Titanium nick-nacks? V7 again.
M-LOK handguard? Keymod thanks you for this because it can now say 'hey, at least I'm not M-LOK'. Neither keymode nor m-lok solve anything that wasn't already solved with customozable rail addition ability. Keymod has BCM advantage of using Aluminum magnesium material for lighter weight is about it.
Extruded buffer tube!? Mind blowing! Never heard of it.
Enhanced BCG? Lightweight cutout bcg is now good here and new?
Generic 1/7 CHF CL mid gas barrel. No profile listed. Respectable, but again, nit new or innovative.
so we are left with weight and rollmark. Weight has been and can be beaten easily, rollmarks now matter more than ever here so you get that one.
No thanks.
Thankfully I can critically assess these things instead of blindly defending my new circle exercising friend(s) by making excusses, assumptions and browbeating others that question.
JBecker 72
10-22-14, 20:03
We get it, you won't be buying one.
MorphCross
10-22-14, 20:30
Is Mega Machine at all involved with this? I feel like I recognize some of the visual queues.
Actually if you go to the Hodge Defense website and scroll down to the bottom you'll see the Mega arms logo.
Ignoring the noise in this thread, i'm certainly intrigued by what I see. That's not to say I'll be purchasing one without a more in-depth look, but still i'll give Hodge credit for utilizing newer materials with the strongest manufacturing processes to make a competitive fighting rifle rifle.
The owner of the company is an extremely well connected guy that has done consulting work in the firearms industry for a very long time. Every person I respect knows him.
I have only talked to him on the phone one time, but was impressed with his knowledge (doesn't happen often in this industry) and his interest to IMPROVE the AR platform. We need more people like this I think.
C4
Thanks for clarifying Grant, it's much appreciated. After being able to read his humble responses over in the other thread and with your clarification, I'm interested in seeing what his experience brings us.
... Does anyone want or need a stronger receiver? Besides a 249 meeting an mrap door, Iv never seen the metals on any milspecrifle fail under normal use.
***This line just reminded me of a photo that made my Instagram feed yesterday:
http://instagram.com/p/uUA7mSpcPT/?modal=true
29188
Don't know the specifics of what Shrek broke here, but it was just a reminder that... stuff breaks. Stronger is better, lighter is better, but agreed: It's a pretty rare day when AR receivers *break*. Far less dramatic, but weaker materials can go a little egg shaped though in the pin holes, etc. though.
Kel
Actually if you go to the Hodge Defense website and scroll down to the bottom you'll see the Mega arms logo.
Ignoring the noise in this thread, i'm certainly intrigued by what I see. That's not to say I'll be purchasing one without a more in-depth look, but still i'll give Hodge credit for utilizing newer materials with the strongest manufacturing processes to make a competitive fighting rifle rifle.
That is good to know. Mega has a good reputation, and are local so I like that a lot.
***This line just reminded me of a photo that made my Instagram feed yesterday:
http://instagram.com/p/uUA7mSpcPT/?modal=true
29188
Don't know the specifics of what Shrek broke here, but it was just a reminder that... stuff breaks. Stronger is better, lighter is better, but agreed: It's a pretty rare day when AR receivers *break*. Far less dramatic, but weaker materials can go a little egg shaped though in the pin holes, etc. though.
Kel
That was a polymer lower
The only competition to the AU Mod 2 is Knight's SR15, IMO.
This will not be an inexpensive rifle though. A complete Noveske Gen 3 rifle is running close to $2500, you can bet the Mod 2 will be every bit of that.
This is a pretty solid assessment - I suspect the AU-Mod2 will start at where the SR15Mod2's will wind up on closeout years from now price wise, and thus be positioned between the complete DDM4-V11LW (cheaper, less ambi, but otherwise the less well heeled right-handers SR-15 analog) and the SR-15Mod2 for something that bridges the gap: this will set it up rather well in the market.
I don't see it being that distinct as a complete rifle to really distance itself from some of the cobbled together from sales BCM offerings if augmented with BattleArmsDev, Norgon, Geissele G2S(-E), and MagPul hardware for people willing to slap an upper on a lower themselves, but in the space of 'one rifle to do every task out of the box' it looks like the AU-Mod2 will acquit itself quite well for folks that may not need the SR-15 feature set or retained performance at high round count.
This is a pretty solid assessment - I suspect the AU-Mod2 will start at where the SR15Mod2's will wind up on closeout years from now price wise, and thus be positioned between the complete DDM4-V11LW (cheaper, less ambi, but otherwise the less well heeled right-handers SR-15 analog) and the SR-15Mod2 for something that bridges the gap: this will set it up rather well in the market.
I don't see it being that distinct as a complete rifle to really distance itself from some of the cobbled together from sales BCM offerings if augmented with BattleArmsDev, Norgon, Geissele G2S(-E), and MagPul hardware for people willing to slap an upper on a lower themselves, but in the space of 'one rifle to do every task out of the box' it looks like the AU-Mod2 will acquit itself quite well for folks that may not need the SR-15 feature set or retained performance at high round count.
The MOD-2 will appeal to those who want to have "common parts" like a midlength gas-tube or Milspec BCG work with their weapon. This "scares" some people off of the KAC rifles, although my personal opinion is that it's a non-issue, still, there are people who don't like the proprietary gas systems and bolts of the KAC product, and this offers an alternative. In fact, it offers the ONLY alternative with a forged ambi lower, of which I am aware.
MorphCross
10-23-14, 03:54
Unless i'm very much mistaken it looks like the ambi charging handle offers an extended right side latch to get you past the forward assist bump. Personally I prefer the MUR upper for this very reason, but it does go to show that thought is being put into these aspects of the firearm.
I suspect it will retail similarly to the other weapons which offer similar "custom" type features (ambi lowers, "billet looking" uppers and lowers, although this one has the looks while being Forged), such as Noveske, LaRue, etc.
One thing I'd like to know is the price of the upper and lower (or a set) and the weight. I understand this thread is about a rifle, but the receivers are the only part that really set it apart. Much more interest has been shown in the receivers than the complete gun. It has been indicated they will be available separate.
What I'd like to be able to compare that to is what I consider the competition.
2a Arms BALIOS-Lite (http://www.2a-arms.com/content/balios-lite):
7075 Billet
Machined for weight savings.
Upper 5.85 oz stripped (no FA)
Lower 6.50 oz stripped
Retail: 486$ matched set
Seems a good set, I have been considering one. Pricey, really only thing holding me back, but seems reasonable.
MAG Tactical (http://www.magtacticalsystems.com/index.php/2013-07-29-03-32-34/2013-08-01-17-32-25):
Magnesium Alloy
Upper: 4.8 oz stripped
Lower: 5.875 oz stripped
Retail: 345.90$ (assembled upper)
Seems the material here may not be best for the task. Weight and price are certainly there though.
Mega Machine (http://megaarms.com/ar-15/receiver-sets/billet-upper-lower-sets/standard-billet-upper-lower-set/):
7075 billet
Set weight: 19.4 oz
Retail price:431$
These are not light weight but I think they are good for comparison because they are a matched set held to the highest tolerances and quality control. A lot of talk about this surrounding the Hodge rifles.
So basically with those basic specs I can make a comparison. Is the value there in the one part of the rifle that actually set its apart? The 2A arms is the one that seems the most direct competitor.
I'd also like to know more about what sets the assembly of these rifles apart from the rest. The heat fit barrel is neat, what else is there? With that info You decide if the value is there in this rifle or not. How ever I don't really see us finding all that out.
You mention Noveske rifles, another one I simply do not see the value in. I have heard all about the little tricks and extras that go into the assembly of these too, but never what they actually are, these too are rifles I will never buy and never see the value in. I put together a Noveske SPR barrel in a Vltor VIS for 2/3rds what the sold the same upper for, what ever they did for that extra 500$ will always escape me, there is nothing that to me could justify that much of a price disparity.
The LaRue truly brings a lot of unique and desirable items to market only available in their rifles.
KAC SR15s has a number of innovations that are clearly explained, and make sense. There is no claim of unicorn tears used as assembly lube. They simply build a great rifle from innovative parts.
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 09:47
^Not just weight but strength vs weight.
Some may have missed what the article was pointing out about the added reciever dimensions. Hodge took a material that was both lighter and stronger than forged 7075 aluminum dimension for dimension. Then he used the weight savings allowed by the material properties to add dimensions to the reciever for a compounding strength gain. Like how 7075 billet recievers have to do beacause they need the added material to compensate for the material strength, except the material Hodge used is already stronger than forged 7075 alum. Hodge is going for bomb proof.
For this reason the weight savings some might be expecting out of these receives might not be as drastic as you think. What you are getting is a reciever that weighs close to the same as a forged mil-spec, maybe a hair less, but that is WAY stronger. The closest in strength is probably the Vltor MUR, which is forged aluminum with added dimensions but it weighs more for it. This is forged Al-Li with added dimensions that is likely stronger than the MUR but without any weight increase over a forged mil-spec dimensions receiver.
I'd also like to know more about what sets the assembly of these rifles apart from the rest. The heat fit barrel is neat, what else is there? With that info You decide if the value is there in this rifle or not. How ever I don't really see us finding all that out.
You mention Noveske rifles, another one I simply do not see the value in. I have heard all about the little tricks and extras that go into the assembly of these too, but never what they actually are, these too are rifles I will never buy and never see the value in. I put together a Noveske SPR barrel in a Vltor VIS for 2/3rds what the sold the same upper for, what ever they did for that extra 500$ will always escape me, there is nothing that to me could justify that much of a price disparity.
The LaRue truly brings a lot of unique and desirable items to market only available in their rifles.
KAC SR15s has a number of innovations that are clearly explained, and make sense. There is no claim of unicorn tears used as assembly lube. They simply build a great rifle from innovative parts.
Alot of praises have been given to the Hodge rifles for their assembly (fit and finish) but this has also brought alot of heat for a lack of explanation. I think the problem is that you cannot quantify the quality of the build on paper, it's something that you have to see and feel for yourself. Also, anything that they do "special" in the assembly sets them apart from others in the industry and is thus proprietary. While proprietary, its not something that you can patent such as a Knights E3 bolt. Why would they ever give away their trade secrets for others to copy when you cant protect them with a patent?
That was a polymer lower
Certainly looks like it... inside the break anyway. And there's some weird thing on the RE... like a folding hinge or something?
In any case, those Poly lowers used to break when people would do pistol caliber guns on them and not switch to a heavy buffer.
Looks to be 2099 they are using over 7075. It's been around for a while (1960's?) in other forms, and I believe around 2007 was about the current time frame for the Alcoa blend that is now 2099. It's good stuff for sure, the thermal impact is much less on 2099 over 7075, although as temps increase, 7075 retains some of it's ductile properties over 2099.
Our receivers are thicker than a forging in the main bore on our uppers even though they are lighter by a good amount. All of our weight savings was taken from less critical areas.
Interesting stuff!
I am going to look into a plate form of the 2099.
Weight savings, strength, and more corrosion resistant??? Whats not to like besides the price. :)
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 10:45
^agreed. I don't understand though why people feel the concept of factory-custom fit & finish is so elusive. Mil-spec is a range. You can specify any increment within that range and it will be "in-spec". How well this is done for fit and finish is a matter of understanding the dimensions of the parts and speccing them for desired fit (the kind of stuff not published; why this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmYULfaqFfA, is impressive). But more then that it is a commitment to QC and contracting a manufacture that can consistently and cost effectively meet your specifications. It says more to me about a company's precision capabilities, commitment, and standards than anything else (so long as it is also coupled with quality in other areas (like Hodge) and not just a suckers selling point distracting from cut corners elsewhere).
One thing I'd like to know is the price of the upper and lower (or a set) and the weight. I understand this thread is about a rifle, but the receivers are the only part that really set it apart. Much more interest has been shown in the receivers than the complete gun. It has been indicated they will be available separate.
According to the article, the stand alone receiver sets will be in 7075. That will at least give people the option of having a forged receiver set with a bolt release that can be made into a pistol.
Also, how important is a right side bolt hold open?
JBecker 72
10-23-14, 13:26
Also, how important is right side bolt hold open?
I wouldn't say it's important, but it sure would make things a little easier.
PatrioticDisorder
10-23-14, 13:44
Also, how important is right side bolt hold open?
Right side bolt hold open IMO is the biggest advantage (from a right handed shooter's point of view) to having an ambi lower. It's the reason I SBR'd AX556 lowers for the 2 KAC uppers (11.5 & 14.5) I recently bought instead of just buying a complete KAC SBR or SBRing KAC lowers.
Right side bolt catch allows user to speed up clearing malfunctions and overall makes it less awkward when you want to lock the bolt back, whether it be for safe handling of said rifle or simply showing rifle is clear at the range. To me it is mind boggling why AR's were not initially made fully ambi 50 years ago.
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 13:57
I wouldn't say it's important, but it sure would make things a little easier.
The AXTS ADAC pin drops the mag and holds the bolt open for remedial action by just pressing the mag release with the trigger finger. It would be supreamly B-A if Hodge could pull that off with the right side bolt release!
According to the article, the stand alone receiver sets will be in 7075. That will at least give people the option of having a forged receiver set with a bolt release that can be made into a pistol.
Also, how important is right side bolt hold open?
soooo individual receivers sold from hodge will not be made out of the super alloy? i am going to call these people next week and will post results.
One thing I'd like to know is the price of the upper and lower (or a set) and the weight. I understand this thread is about a rifle, but the receivers are the only part that really set it apart. Much more interest has been shown in the receivers than the complete gun. It has been indicated they will be available separate.
What I'd like to be able to compare that to is what I consider the competition.
2a Arms BALIOS-Lite (http://www.2a-arms.com/content/balios-lite):
7075 Billet
Machined for weight savings.
Upper 5.85 oz stripped (no FA)
Lower 6.50 oz stripped
Retail: 486$ matched set
Seems a good set, I have been considering one. Pricey, really only thing holding me back, but seems reasonable.
MAG Tactical (http://www.magtacticalsystems.com/index.php/2013-07-29-03-32-34/2013-08-01-17-32-25):
Magnesium Alloy
Upper: 4.8 oz stripped
Lower: 5.875 oz stripped
Retail: 345.90$ (assembled upper)
Seems the material here may not be best for the task. Weight and price are certainly there though.
Mega Machine (http://megaarms.com/ar-15/receiver-sets/billet-upper-lower-sets/standard-billet-upper-lower-set/):
7075 billet
Set weight: 19.4 oz
Retail price:431$
These are not light weight but I think they are good for comparison because they are a matched set held to the highest tolerances and quality control. A lot of talk about this surrounding the Hodge rifles.
So basically with those basic specs I can make a comparison. Is the value there in the one part of the rifle that actually set its apart? The 2A arms is the one that seems the most direct competitor.
I'd also like to know more about what sets the assembly of these rifles apart from the rest. The heat fit barrel is neat, what else is there? With that info You decide if the value is there in this rifle or not. How ever I don't really see us finding all that out.
You mention Noveske rifles, another one I simply do not see the value in. I have heard all about the little tricks and extras that go into the assembly of these too, but never what they actually are, these too are rifles I will never buy and never see the value in. I put together a Noveske SPR barrel in a Vltor VIS for 2/3rds what the sold the same upper for, what ever they did for that extra 500$ will always escape me, there is nothing that to me could justify that much of a price disparity.
The LaRue truly brings a lot of unique and desirable items to market only available in their rifles.
KAC SR15s has a number of innovations that are clearly explained, and make sense. There is no claim of unicorn tears used as assembly lube. They simply build a great rifle from innovative parts.I have a couple sets of Mag Tactical receivers. The quality is pretty good on the lowers. However, the uppers are pretty lacking - porosity in the casting and poor prep for paint. http://imgur.com/a/geKLq has some pictures of the uppers I have. The finish above the barrel nut is due to insufficient prep, and I had some of the cerakote come off when I clamped it in a vise block to put the barrel on.
soooo individual receivers sold from hodge will not be made out of the super alloy? i am going to call these people next week and will post results.
This is from the link on the first page.
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/10/20/hodge-defense-au-mod-2-details-emerge/
"Additionally, Hodge Defense will offer 7075 receiver sets as an aftermarket product for those who are looking for the upgrades in design but at the lower price of the 7075."
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 14:21
soooo individual receivers sold from hodge will not be made out of the super alloy? i am going to call these people next week and will post results.
That is what I understood from Mr. Hodge, Al-Li recievers available on complete rifles only. The Al-Li version of the rail might be available separately though.
Also, how important is right side bolt hold open?
Unless you're willing to hassle with BAD/Phase5 levers, they're pretty awesome for clearing double feeds. The SR-15's ability to drop the bolt is helpful, but unless you're committed to that system it's an odd habit if you go back to legacy lower receivers, so I wind up ignoring that feature entirely.
^Not just weight but strength vs weight.
Some may have missed what the article was pointing out about the added reciever dimensions. Hodge took a material that was both lighter and stronger than forged 7075 aluminum dimension for dimension. Then he used the weight savings allowed by the material properties to add dimensions to the reciever for a compounding strength gain. Like how 7075 billet recievers have to do beacause they need the added material to compensate for the material strength, except the material Hodge used is already stronger than forged 7075 alum. Hodge is going for bomb proof.
For this reason the weight savings some might be expecting out of these receives might not be as drastic as you think. What you are getting is a reciever that weighs close to the same as a forged mil-spec, maybe a hair less, but that is WAY stronger. The closest in strength is probably the Vltor MUR, which is forged aluminum with added dimensions but it weighs more for it. This is forged Al-Li with added dimensions that is likely stronger than the MUR but without any weight increase over a forged mil-spec dimensions receiver.
I think the strength vs. weight is a great point and something to keep in mind.
If your comments about weight hold true, and they seem reasonable it will greatly lessen my interest in this product, I was hoping for something in the 2A-Armement weight range.
Alot of praises have been given to the Hodge rifles for their assembly (fit and finish) but this has also brought alot of heat for a lack of explanation. I think the problem is that you cannot quantify the quality of the build on paper, it's something that you have to see and feel for yourself. Also, anything that they do "special" in the assembly sets them apart from others in the industry and is thus proprietary. While proprietary, its not something that you can patent such as a Knights E3 bolt. Why would they ever give away their trade secrets for others to copy when you cant protect them with a patent?
I don't buy that what is being done is so special its new and no else knows about it. I think its just more of the likes of heat fitted barrel, this is nothing new, it was just more something int he bolt gun community. It might make a 1/4 moa difference, but does that make sense for a 2 moa barrel?
I think the things that are being done are known things in the gun industry. Its about choosing to do them and taking that time. I feel most companies don't choose to take the time to do these things because they think they aren't worth it and they can't sell it as the value is not there for the consumer.
Now if you are told they are so special you can't know what it is you are left to speculate whether it is worth while. Some people will want to live the dream and go for it, telling themselves they have some thing very special. That 'special' can have value to some customers.
But what if we knew what the 'special' was? Would it still be so special? What if we were able to look at the list of differences and decide for our selves if it was in fact special? Maybe people would look at that list and see where the price is justified in the time it takes to do those things, but that those things do not bring improvement enough to the rifle to be worth the cost. Anytime I am left to 'just trust' its 'worth it' I am immediately skeptical. The only conclusion I can draw from a company taking that stance is they are worried if I knew what was meant to be so special really was, I wouldn't think its so special.
That is what I understood from Mr. Hodge, Al-Li recievers available on complete rifles only. The Al-Li version of the rail might be available separately though.
Well that was the only thing I was interested in. I'll be interested to see what information comes out about these over time and how the saga unfolds, but its to bad the AL-Li receiver sets won't be available separate.
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 16:11
I am going to look into a plate form of the 2099.
Weight savings, strength, and more corrosion resistant??? Whats not to like besides the price. :)
I would be all over this! I am not disappointed in HD's choice to beef up the upper but I also would like to see a version utilizing the material with a focus on weight savings using the increased material strength to further cut weight.
I don't buy that what is being done is so special its new and no else knows about it. I think its just more of the likes of heat fitted barrel, this is nothing new, it was just more something int he bolt gun community. It might make a 1/4 moa difference, but does that make sense for a 2 moa barrel?
I think the things that are being done are known things in the gun industry. Its about choosing to do them and taking that time. I feel most companies don't choose to take the time to do these things because they think they aren't worth it and they can't sell it as the value is not there for the consumer.
Now if you are told they are so special you can't know what it is you are left to speculate whether it is worth while. Some people will want to live the dream and go for it, telling themselves they have some thing very special. That 'special' can have value to some customers.
But what if we knew what the 'special' was? Would it still be so special? What if we were able to look at the list of differences and decide for our selves if it was in fact special? Maybe people would look at that list and see where the price is justified in the time it takes to do those things, but that those things do not bring improvement enough to the rifle to be worth the cost. Anytime I am left to 'just trust' its 'worth it' I am immediately skeptical. The only conclusion I can draw from a company taking that stance is they are worried if I knew what was meant to be so special really was, I wouldn't think its so special.
I understand being skeptical and am always skeptical myself. I'm not trying to infer that Hodge does revolutionary things in the build process, I wouldn't know. But what I do know is that when literally every owner raves on the rifle, there's something to be said. If all of the reviews don't peak your interest, there are many other great rifles out there. With that said, I don't think you can truly pass judgement unless you've handled one yourself.
I would be all over this! I am not disappointed in HD's choice to beef up the upper but I also would like to see a version utilizing the material with a focus on weight savings using the increased material strength to further cut weight.
AlLi is only a few percent lighter than 7075. How many ounces could be cut? 3 to 4 at an extreme most without making it look skeletal? I would rather have the strength and rigidity than reducing weight near the rear of the gun, personally.
If they wanted to do a standard forged lower out of 2099 (or whatever it is), it would cut under an ounce.
If they wanted to do a standard forged lower out of 2099 (or whatever it is), it would cut under an ounce.
Exactly, and if they physically trimmed it...a couple. Maybe. So why not have a stronger more rigid upper? The lower already looks as minimalist as it could imo.
Well 4 ounces is 1/4 of a pound, it can be felt. 4 ounces is almost a KMR rail by itself without the nut. But to your point, yes making one skeletal is about all you can do beyond what has been done in the AR community already. However simply making the same part with 2099 would result in a weight savings, rigidity, and corrosion resistance. I guess I just don't see the down side of it beyond the price. 2099 can be used on a billet rail to take weight off the front of the gun if that is where it's most beneficial.
I am still intrigued by the material.
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 21:47
AlLi is only a few percent lighter than 7075. How many ounces could be cut? 3 to 4 at an extreme most without making it look skeletal? I would rather have the strength and rigidity than reducing weight near the rear of the gun, personally.
Roger, I would prioritize bomb proof as well. I also like the V7WS train of thought: two focuses, extreme lightweight and extreme duty, sometimes overlapping. Hodge D went extreme environment. Redmist at 2A Armament has shown us a great example of extreme lightweight using 7075 billet, an Al-Li version of the Balios-lite would be awesome! Lighter still and yet stronger.
Plenty of places to reduce weight on an AR, Our main bore on the BALIOS-lite is still thicker in the walls than a standard forging. So Hodge might have something here, who knows....
methical20
10-23-14, 22:18
I am very intrigued with what Hodge Defense is doing. It's nice to see a company going to such great lengths to really try to improve the AR platform.
Could you imagine one of these with an E3 bolt/barrel? Sounds like a fun project.
jerrysimons
10-23-14, 22:54
Could you imagine one of these with an E3 bolt/barrel? Sounds like a fun project.
Yes it does! You read my mind :)
Plenty of places to reduce weight on an AR, Our main bore on the BALIOS-lite is still thicker in the walls than a standard forging. So Hodge might have something here, who knows....
But your upper is still lighter than mil-spec, not sure I catch your meaning? I wish we had actual weights for the AU Mod 2 recievers, I think they are still slightly lighter than mil-spec forgings but not as much as they could have been since the priority is strength over maximum weight savings. An Al-Li version of the Balios-lite, with all of the material removal, would have to be lighter than the AU Mod 2.
John_Burns
10-24-14, 13:21
Right side bolt hold open IMO is the biggest advantage (from a right handed shooter's point of view) to having an ambi lower. It's the reason I SBR'd AX556 lowers for the 2 KAC uppers (11.5 & 14.5) I recently bought instead of just buying a complete KAC SBR or SBRing KAC lowers.
Right side bolt catch allows user to speed up clearing malfunctions and overall makes it less awkward when you want to lock the bolt back, whether it be for safe handling of said rifle or simply showing rifle is clear at the range. To me it is mind boggling why AR's were not initially made fully ambi 50 years ago.
After using lowers with a right side bolt catch I agree 100%. I almost never release the bolt with the right side button but almost always catch the bolt with the trigger finger from the right side.
The AXTS ADAC pin drops the mag and holds the bolt open for remedial action by just pressing the mag release with the trigger finger. It would be supreamly B-A if Hodge could pull that off with the right side bolt release!
I prefer a separate button to manipulate the bolt catch/release. While rare there are instances where I wish to lock the bolt back but not drop the mag.
jerrysimons
12-31-14, 16:57
:ph34r:
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10425385_852531288123641_2639955165611313806_n.jpg?oh=37bcc1cfbd945e477e539565e2921eea&oe=552803E3
methical20
01-01-15, 10:33
Looks great. I'm looking forward to specs and some up close shots of it. I'd love to see how the barrel nut/how the rail mounts.
Any other interesting info on this new metal?
Looks great. I'm looking forward to specs and some up close shots of it. I'd love to see how the barrel nut/how the rail mounts.
Any other interesting info on this new metal?
It's a latest-gen lithium aluminum and better in every single way than 7075.
-Thermal stability
-Crack propogation
-Corrosion
-Rigidity
-Fatigue
-Weight
jerrysimons
01-01-15, 11:07
Looks great. I'm looking forward to specs and some up close shots of it. I'd love to see how the barrel nut/how the rail mounts.
Any other interesting info on this new metal?
Hodge has kept the rail mount specs under wraps, patent pending. The rail is SWEET. It doesn't look it from the picture but the 1.5 and 10.5 o'clock rail face holes are sculpted to feel like the rail molds to your hand.
Hodge has kept the rail mount specs under wraps, patent pending. The rail is SWEET. It doesn't look it from the picture but the 1.5 and 10.5 o'clock rail face holes are sculpted to feel like the rail molds to your hand.
Can confirm that the rail is excellent. It is light, but not KMR light (and conversely, it is stronger). The barrel nut/lock up is awesome, and the rail features an anti-rotation feature that I consider to be in the same style as several industry standard anti-rotation methods. It's a solid rail that is very ergonomic, sturdy, and has no weight where it's not needed. Very slim, but doesn't "feel like you will strangle it", if that makes sense.
This is a rare case of a "gun guy" getting to "build a gun". The whole thing flows and feels "right", just like one would expect a rifle made by an actual shooter.
Have you tried pulling the takedown pin to see if the upper balances or slams down on the bench like the average Colt, BCM or Kac? That would be the first test I'd put her through. Nice rifle!;)
It looks like a really nice seeing setup.
jerrysimons
01-02-15, 10:15
It looks like a really nice seeing setup.
The rifle I saw, which looks exactly like the one in the pic, was a 14.5" SBR. This gives you an idea of the length of the rail. I am curious also what Hodge's consumer configuration will be once it is released. Surely a 16" barrel will be offered.
The rifle I saw, which looks exactly like the one in the pic, was a 14.5" SBR. This gives you an idea of the length of the rail. I am curious also what Hodge's consumer configuration will be once it is released. Surely a 16" barrel will be offered.
Yes, a 16.1" barrel will be offered. The rail is about 13.5" . No, I don't know how much the rail by itself or the barrel nut weigh. Yes, on a 14.5" barrel you can mount a Surefire suppressor/mount without hitting the rail. I would wager AAC, as well, but do not know for sure.
I do not know, but I PRESUME that HDSI will offer the rifle mostly with a 16.1" barrel, as offering it with a 14.5" barrel would imply pinned muzzle devices, as I don't think HDSI plans on doing higher volume SBR sales. That means stocking brakes, FH mounts, etc. from multiple companies. Do-able, but kindof annoying, maybe? I don't know, I have not asked about this, it's just a pure guess based on MOD-1 uppers. Some of their distributors do sell 14.5" MOD 1's with various pinned devices (Weapon Outfitters).
methical20
01-02-15, 19:20
WS6,
Any idea if these will be offered as factory SBRs of the 10-11 inch flavor, obviously with a shorter rail? Or even just as stand-alone uppers?
WS6,
Any idea if these will be offered as factory SBRs of the 10-11 inch flavor, obviously with a shorter rail? Or even just as stand-alone uppers?
I do not know, but I would guess that if they were, it wouldn't be for a while. I personally doubt it, but that isn't to speak for HDSI.
I think commercial guns should be available shortly after SHOT, my Mod 2 is in the mail and will be here Wednesday. Jim said the first batch was eaten up by non-commercial demand, except for one (this guy).
After spending time with a prototype, I am pretty stoked to get one of my own.
SilverBullet432
01-05-15, 17:35
:ph34r:
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10425385_852531288123641_2639955165611313806_n.jpg?oh=37bcc1cfbd945e477e539565e2921eea&oe=552803E3
Great looking rifle. :) nice to see a company with real innovations, not just snake oil.
Hi gents, hope you had a good Christmas, and a great New Year. To answer some of your questions, most guns will have 16" barrels. I will do some SBR's uppers in 14.5 and 12.5. My handguards can be purchased in 7075 separately, and later in AlLi. My lockup is a wedge system with a Ti barrel nut. I have been hammered with non commercial test guns, and will have commercial Mod2's this quarter. There will be a few displayed at SHOT in various booths, will have more info later on who will have em. My door is always open, so give me a shout anytime at the shop.
Cheers,
Jim Hodge
rocket 442
01-06-15, 20:21
Someone finally gets it,a rail made from 7075T6!
Someone finally gets it,a rail made from 7075T6!
Not only that, but I believe it will be available in M-LOK and KM, with M-LOK coming first. That eliminates at least some of the "which rail?" questions, and allows people to keep their kool-aid of choice in mounting accessories.
I think commercial guns should be available shortly after SHOT, my Mod 2 is in the mail and will be here Wednesday. Jim said the first batch was eaten up by non-commercial demand, except for one (this guy).
After spending time with a prototype, I am pretty stoked to get one of my own.
Do you know if they will have a booth at Shot 2015? I want to check their stuff out.
Do you know if they will have a booth at Shot 2015? I want to check their stuff out.
I do not know, but I doubt it considering that they said their rifles will be at several booths. Why not just direct you to theirs? Just inference on my part, that.
jerrysimons
01-07-15, 11:08
Someone finally gets it,a rail made from 7075T6!
eff 7075T6! I want some Al-Li!
eff 7075T6! I want some Al-Li!
7075 is still a serious leap over 6061.
jerrysimons
01-07-15, 12:36
7075 is still a serious leap over 6061.
True, but I'll be holding out ;)
One small step for handguards, one giant leap for AR kinds :D
^I have been looking at too much HodgeDefense marketing:jester:
jerrysimons
01-20-15, 19:31
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT3ScqpCZWg
Dayum, that rail is hot!
That contour of the 1.5/10.5 faces is what I am talking about, it feels so good! :o ;)
zombiescometh
01-20-15, 20:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT3ScqpCZWg
Dayum, that rail is hot!
That contour of the 1.5/10.5 faces is what I am talking about, it feels so good! :o ;)
Did you post in the wrong spot or is mega teaming with hodge?
jerrysimons
01-20-15, 20:18
Did you post in the wrong spot or is mega teaming with hodge?
No. Yes.
It is Hodges rail design, Mega is machining and marketing 7075 versions, IIRC.
Jim Hodge has teamed with most everyone out there on various projects. He's been behind the scenes until recently. Even his mod 1 is more "his" than most realize.
zombiescometh
01-20-15, 20:58
I had a feeling but wanted to make sure.
jerrysimons
01-21-15, 22:37
http://soldiersystems.net/2015/01/19/photos-of-the-hodge-defense-systems-au-mod-2/
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IMG_1228.jpg
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IMG_1229.jpg
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IMG_1231.jpg
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/IMG_1232.jpg
From what I understand, there is anti rotation interface between the rail and upper. I could be wrong though. Awaiting confirmation.
*confirmed* yes. Anti rotation is present.
I need to go check out his place in town and see if I can put down a deposit for the Mod 2.
Hey guys... Back from SHOT and letting my brain heal. The handguard has an anti rotation pin between the upper and rail. The first initial handguards as stand alone will be 7075, then later AlLi. Mega and I have a profound relationship. I help with some design work, and they support me with cutting chips. The Mega handguard and mine are virtually the same, and will be listed at the same price. The lockup design was their brain child, but refined by me, as well as the style and design is mine. We are sharing in what I believe is one of the finest combative handguards in the industry.
Cheers, Jim Hodge
jerrysimons
01-23-15, 19:00
What do you think of the ADAC pin by AXTS, texasjim? I picked up a forged ADAC lower from Rainier Arms, which IIRC are also machined by Mega, and it's a good fit for your space gun, IMO! ;)
Cincinnatus
01-23-15, 20:33
Hey guys... Back from SHOT and letting my brain heal. The handguard has an anti rotation pin between the upper and rail. The first initial handguards as stand alone will be 7075, then later AlLi. Mega and I have a profound relationship. I help with some design work, and they support me with cutting chips. The Mega handguard and mine are virtually the same, and will be listed at the same price. The lockup design was their brain child, but refined by me, as well as the style and design is mine. We are sharing in what I believe is one of the finest combative handguards in the industry.
Cheers, Jim Hodge
Outstanding.
Can't wait to get hands on with one.
Before now, the only way to really get a 7075 handguard was with a monolithic rail platform.
jerrysimons
01-29-15, 09:54
http://www.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Hodge-Defense.jpg
http://www.recoilweb.com/shot-show-2015-instagram-coverage-56993.html
I finally got 1K rounds through my Mod 2 (It was at SHOT and Great American Outdoor til 16 Feb). All suppressed with no cleaning, with the last 500 in a nasty 3-day South Texas rain/mud storm.
It's plenty accurate, mine shot around .7 with 77GR Black Hills red box. Even with 70Gr TSX, it was minute of Javelina brain out to 250 with a 2 MOA T1. The hand guard needs to be held to understand the magic, it is very well though out and totally devoid of a sharp edge. If anyone remembers the Clark Custom "Meltdown" 1911 package, you'll recognize the feel when you grab the Mod 2 handguard. As an aside, Mega is going to be selling a version of the hand guard as well.
I'm not sure when they are shipping, but I believe it will be a hit.
I want a couple... Nice alloy nice forgings. I wonder if the lower receiver small parts fit conventional lowers? The mag release will not but what about the bolt catch?
I so need these....
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
I want a couple... Nice alloy nice forgings. I wonder if the lower receiver small parts fit conventional lowers? The mag release will not but what about the bolt catch?
I so need these....
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
Bolt catch does not, I don't believe.
Mag catch is a Norgon, you should be good.
The ambi bolt catch is obviously proprietary but everything else should be standard sized parts.
I do NOT comprehend the "hate" expressed about this product. I'm a Mech Engr so I follow (clearly) what is being done and I approve.
I really didn't want another rifle or another complete lower and matched upper but DAMN.
I'm in.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
I do NOT comprehend the "hate" expressed about this product. I'm a Mech Engr so
I follow (clearly) what is being done and I approve.
I really didn't want another rifle or another complete lower and matched upper but DAMN.
I'm in.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
From what I gather it was more about how it was released than about the actual product itself? Idk.
I'm def in for an upper if nothing else.
I do NOT comprehend the "hate" expressed about this product. I'm a Mech Engr so
I follow (clearly) what is being done and I approve.
I really didn't want another rifle or another complete lower and matched upper but DAMN.
I'm in.
-------------------------------------
"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
People got upset because the product excited a lot of people, but to protect intellectual property, technical details were withheld from the public by ad large for a long time until legal recourse had been set up to protect said ip.
ScatmanCrothers
03-08-15, 20:05
It may have been discussed already but is the ambi bolt catch one complete piece? The paddle side looks just like an enhanced bolt catch that Badger Ordnance offers but I don't think it's available in an ambi option. Couldn't find much info on it.
PatrioticDisorder
03-08-15, 20:14
Mag catch is a Norgon, you should be good.
The ambi bolt catch is obviously proprietary but everything else should be standard sized parts.
Is the Ambi bolt catch truly a bolt catch or is it just a right side bolt release like the Knights lowers?
Is the Ambi bolt catch truly a bolt catch or is it just a right side bolt release like the Knights lowers?
It is a bolt release on the right-hand side.
So, any new word on this rifle? Are any of you using one for work? If so, is it worth it? Can anyone give some details on what's awesome or terrible about it?
So, any new word on this rifle? Are any of you using one for work? If so, is it worth it? Can anyone give some details on what's awesome or terrible about it?
Prototypes are being fielded by certain people within the industry, currently. The new barrels are looking good!
It's a premium carbine with premium materials and premium design and attention to detail. The upper and lower, as you already know, are made of a proprietary alloy of Lithium Aluminum. Lighter, stronger, more corrosion resistant, etc. All bar-stock small parts, and a better (larger engagement area) bolt-stop. The barrel is made out of the toughest steel in the industry, hammer forged, and chrome lined. It should be one of, if not THE most durable barrels out there in this application. It is profiled sensibly, to place the most thermal mass where it's needed, and aid in balance (similar to the Noveske N4 profile, but a little more complex with the tapers.). I don't have any trigger time on the gun yet, but will surely report back when I do. In the mean-time, here's a mock-up of how mine will look:
http://i58.tinypic.com/2d1utmf.jpg
Considering all of the companies involved in producing the parts, I am amazed that it has come together so quickly. I do not know of anyone else in the industry that has coordinated something as comprehensive, so effectively.
Appreciate it, though I wasn't super clear I guess. I read the whole thread, so I'm clear on the fancy materials and it's got my interest. I've really only used standard M4s and M16s and I have a 6920 for work, but I'm craving something that can offer me smoother shooting and more accuracy. I fired a mid length gun once and it was obviously softer recoiling, so I'm sold on that aspect. I want/need (aren't they the same?) a new heater, and I had been trying to decide between getting a BCM or shelling out for an SR15. This material seems really interesting, and I really like that, if I'm not mistaken, M4Guru said he was shooting .7 MOA with match ammo. Accuracy is a tad important to me, but I didn't want to go to a match barrel, yet. I also have to admit that I like that Hodge Defense is here in Texas. I just want to know if I'm crazy for wanting this over a Recce 16 or an SR15, but, I guess I still need to wait for them to get out there.
PS: That picture is beautiful.
Appreciate it, though I wasn't super clear I guess. I read the whole thread, so I'm clear on the fancy materials and it's got my interest. I've really only used standard M4s and M16s and I have a 6920 for work, but I'm craving something that can offer me smoother shooting and more accuracy. I fired a mid length gun once and it was obviously softer recoiling, so I'm sold on that aspect. I want/need (aren't they the same?) a new heater, and I had been trying to decide between getting a BCM or shelling out for an SR15. This material seems really interesting, and I really like that, if I'm not mistaken, M4Guru said he was shooting .7 MOA with match ammo. Accuracy is a tad important to me, but I didn't want to go to a match barrel, yet. I also have to admit that I like that Hodge Defense is here in Texas. I just want to know if I'm crazy for wanting this over a Recce 16 or an SR15, but, I guess I still need to wait for them to get out there.
PS: That picture is beautiful.
Thanks!
To be specific, in answering your questions, Jim Hodge has spec'ed a gas port size that is very appropriate for using a H-buffer, and 5.56 ammunition, with or without a suppressor. His goal is to tune the rifle to perform optimally with 5.56 pressure ammunition and an H-buffer and carbine spring. The end user can then select a carbine buffer, if it turns out they want to run cheap junk like Tula, presuming the H-buffer is a bit heavy for it (I don't know that it would be, I'm just speculating), or maybe run an H2 buffer if they have a higher back-pressure suppressor and are running suppressed 100% of the time. The gun should be as smooth as can be.
Regarding accuracy, I cannot comment. Noone can, at this point. I don't believe groups have been shot from a weapon yet using the new barrels. Jim Hodge is going for great accuracy, and greater reliability/durability. Basically what this means is he wants around 1 MOA or better out of MK262, but he is not hung up on the differences between 0.5MOA and 1MOA, if it means giving up a CHF chrome-lined barrel and going with a "match" type barrel to achieve it, if that makes sense?
I think that the BCM rifles compete more in-line with the MOD 1, and the SR-15 is more in line with the MOD 2. I think a lot of Jim Hodge, as well as the guys over at KAC. I personally feel that if you can, you should shoot both a KAC MOD 2, and a Hodge Defense MOD 2, before deciding. I understand that may not be possible for you, but if you can at all make it happen, do it!
That said, I am going with the Hodge Defense gun.
Why?
I like the barrel. I like the weight (6.25# for a 14.5" gun), I like the ergonomics. I like the rail (ergos). I like the nearly 100% (the bolt latch is not interchangeable I don't believe) parts compatibility with mil-spec parts. I like all bar-stock parts. (Wilson Combat did this as an "upgrade" to their pistols for something like $200, around 10 years ago, or so. They were the "Bulletproof" line from Wilson).
PatrioticDisorder
06-19-15, 09:27
Thanks!
To be specific, in answering your questions, Jim Hodge has spec'ed a gas port size that is very appropriate for using a H-buffer, and 5.56 ammunition, with or without a suppressor. His goal is to tune the rifle to perform optimally with 5.56 pressure ammunition and an H-buffer and carbine spring. The end user can then select a carbine buffer, if it turns out they want to run cheap junk like Tula, presuming the H-buffer is a bit heavy for it (I don't know that it would be, I'm just speculating), or maybe run an H2 buffer if they have a higher back-pressure suppressor and are running suppressed 100% of the time. The gun should be as smooth as can be.
Regarding accuracy, I cannot comment. Noone can, at this point. I don't believe groups have been shot from a weapon yet using the new barrels. Jim Hodge is going for great accuracy, and greater reliability/durability. Basically what this means is he wants around 1 MOA or better out of MK262, but he is not hung up on the differences between 0.5MOA and 1MOA, if it means giving up a CHF chrome-lined barrel and going with a "match" type barrel to achieve it, if that makes sense?
I think that the BCM rifles compete more in-line with the MOD 1, and the SR-15 is more in line with the MOD 2. I think a lot of Jim Hodge, as well as the guys over at KAC. I personally feel that if you can, you should shoot both a KAC MOD 2, and a Hodge Defense MOD 2, before deciding. I understand that may not be possible for you, but if you can at all make it happen, do it!
That said, I am going with the Hodge Defense gun.
Why?
I like the barrel. I like the weight (6.25# for a 14.5" gun), I like the ergonomics. I like the rail (ergos). I like the nearly 100% (the bolt latch is not interchangeable I don't believe) parts compatibility with mil-spec parts. I like all bar-stock parts. (Wilson Combat did this as an "upgrade" to their pistols for something like $200, around 10 years ago, or so. They were the "Bulletproof" line from Wilson).
So if the mod 2 is meant to compete with the SR-15, this begs the obvious question. What improvements have been done to the bolt to match the durability of the E3?
Does anyone have pictures of the barrel profile?
So if the mod 2 is meant to compete with the SR-15, this begs the obvious question. What improvements have been done to the bolt to match the durability of the E3?
The bolt is 9310 QPQ. It is compatible with any milspec bolt profile. The goal was not to use proprietary parts that were essential to function, so that COTS and existing supply chain resources could easily be relied upon.
I don't think it was meant to compete with the mod 2 either. Just that they are more comparable to each other.
methical20
06-19-15, 20:38
Does anyone have pictures of the barrel profile?
I am also very interested in this when HD decides to make it public. I'm also thrilled to see that it will be offered in an 11.5" version.
jerrysimons
06-19-15, 23:10
The new barrel material and profile development is very exciting.
So is this going to be considered evolutionary or revolutionary?
jerrysimons
06-19-15, 23:40
Cold hammer forged 9310H, I knew I read it somewhere.
http://weaponoutfitters.tumblr.com/post/118165263417/hodge-defense-au-mod-production-prototype-this
BufordTJustice
06-20-15, 10:24
Cold hammer forged 9310H, I knew I read it somewhere.
http://weaponoutfitters.tumblr.com/post/118165263417/hodge-defense-au-mod-production-prototype-this
Interesting. I don't know much about 9310H for this application.
jerrysimons
06-20-15, 12:08
So is this going to be considered evolutionary or revolutionary?
Idk, probably a significant evolutionary step, perhaps apex predator ;) I am just excited because I have personal rule never to buy a government profile barreled upper (it helps me keep money in my wallet and focused on the products I really want, e.g. tapered barrels).
Interesting. I don't know much about 9310H for this application.I don't recall having read about it's use on a barrel before this.
Once the guns are available I imagine someone will post a naked picture.
Swung by HDSI today. Rifles are coming on nicely. Civilian production should begin soon. Complete rifles for other clients are already producted/being produced. Here is a preview of the 14.5" chf barrel. Weighs the same as a .gov profile of equal length.http://i60.tinypic.com/sdl75j.jpg
Cincinnatus
07-08-15, 21:38
Swung by HDSI today. Rifles are coming on nicely. Civilian production should begin soon. Complete rifles for other clients are already producted/being produced. Here is a preview of the 14.5" chf barrel. Weighs the same as a .gov profile of equal length.http://i60.tinypic.com/sdl75j.jpg
Very cool. Profile looks almost like a Noveske.
Glad to see Hodge getting rifles out. I think this is a solid company to watch.
PatrioticDisorder
07-08-15, 21:43
The bolt is 9310 QPQ. It is compatible with any milspec bolt profile. The goal was not to use proprietary parts that were essential to function, so that COTS and existing supply chain resources could easily be relied upon.
I don't think it was meant to compete with the mod 2 either. Just that they are more comparable to each other.
Thanks, I think it would be cool if they came up with a bolt compatible with standard AR-15 barrel but still more durable like the LMT enhanced bolt. Definitely some things that look good with the rifle (I really like the barrel profile) but not enough to have me looking at one over a KAC.
Thanks, I think it would be cool if they came up with a bolt compatible with standard AR-15 barrel but still more durable like the LMT enhanced bolt. Definitely some things that look good with the rifle (I really like the barrel profile) but not enough to have me looking at one over a KAC.
I think the 9310 qpq bolt is a solid advancement. I am not aware of any being broken, and several with well over 25k rounds on them.
jerrysimons
07-09-15, 02:10
Swung by HDSI today. Rifles are coming on nicely. Civilian production should begin soon. Complete rifles for other clients are already producted/being produced. Here is a preview of the 14.5" chf barrel. Weighs the same as a .gov profile of equal length.http://i60.tinypic.com/sdl75j.jpg
That is where it is at!:cool:
Thanks for the barrel picture. I'm a little surprised that the bolt is nitrided while the barrel isn't, I'm more used to seeing them the other way around. How different is that vs M4 profile? It looks pretty similar to me, in that in front of the gas block seat appears to be thicker than behind. I'm also a little surprised at the full length gas block seat, there are a lot of barrels with 1" seats around now.
jerrysimons
07-09-15, 10:00
Thanks for the barrel picture. I'm a little surprised that the bolt is nitrided while the barrel isn't, I'm more used to seeing them the other way around. How different is that vs M4 profile? It looks pretty similar to me, in that in front of the gas block seat appears to be thicker than behind. I'm also a little surprised at the full length gas block seat, there are a lot of barrels with 1" seats around now.
With the exception of the handguard cap shoulder, the gas-block seat, and the muzzle flare I see a taper
It looks to me like diameter in front of the gas block seat is larger than immediately behind it but my eyes could be deceiving me.
It looks to me like diameter in front of the gas block seat is larger than immediately behind it but my eyes could be deceiving me.
It's your eyes.
methical20
10-21-15, 08:35
Any updates on this?
They posted a picture today on Facebook that looked damn good. I want an 11.5/12.5 version.
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They posted a picture today on Facebook that looked damn good. I want an 11.5/12.5 version.
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I saw that and want one, but will settle for just the rail for my 12.5" build to replace the 10" MI SSM that's already on it.
snakedoctor
11-02-15, 21:30
I swear I check Weapon Outfitters daily for the 13.5" Mod2 rail.
RAM Engineer
11-05-15, 13:49
Is this thing still vaporware?
I swear I check Weapon Outfitters daily for the 13.5" Mod2 rail.
Get the Mega?
Get the Mega?
I don't think the Mega are the same length?
Thesandstonefiles
11-05-15, 19:13
Is this thing still vaporware?
Yeah I'd love to get my hands on one of these. Don't get why people want to BS about a new product coming out. If it has an issue it will appear when end users get hands on.
Until then
jerrysimons
11-05-15, 19:57
Is this thing still vaporware?
Yes. I think Hodge's production capacity is tapped out by Ft. Bragg. :(
I swear I check Weapon Outfitters daily for the 13.5" Mod2 rail.
Roy is saying that they should be out in a couple of weeks.
jerrysimons
11-06-15, 10:11
Are they (the mod 2 rails) still supposed to be Aluminum lithium? Hodge's web site says the rail under the specs for the AU Mod 2 is 7075. I wonder if this decision was made to produce more receivers? 7075 is quite robust for a rail, AL-LI having a slight weight advantage though.
Roy from WO says that the rails that are going to be available first are the 7075 version and the AL-Li versions are a long way off with no apparent lead time, as they are all allocated to rifle builds.
Hi guys...appreciate your patience, and interest. I have been moving at break neck speed trying to get more of these to the commercial market. I have been blessed with a ton of interest from various government organizations, and am trying to answer the mail with them. I look to get another run of commercial Mod-1 & 2s before year end....at least doing my best to do so. My rails will be available soon to various dealers, primarily in 13.5 and 11.5, may have a few in 10.75 from an over run. For the DogBone, Trijicon, and or Mega will be offering them, yes my design, though I don't have the bandwidth to juggle them for now. We waiting to see if Trijicon picks them up before we go into major production, this is a tactic to bring the DogBone at a price competitive and palatable to you the consumer. Also we will still bring the Aimpoint T series DogBone to market at the same time.
Again, thanks for your interest and conversation in relation to Hodge Defense....I am humbled.
Jim Hodge
RAM Engineer
01-20-16, 09:48
Any update as to the availability of Mod-2s? Anything on display at SHOT? Very interested in getting either one of these or a KAC Mlok gun sometime this year, availability dependent.
Any update as to the availability of Mod-2s? Anything on display at SHOT? Very interested in getting either one of these or a KAC Mlok gun sometime this year, availability dependent.
I asked Jim at SHOT Show this week and he didn't give any specific timeline, but there is a run planned.
RAM Engineer
01-23-16, 14:17
I asked Jim at SHOT Show this week and he didn't give any specific timeline, but there is a run planned.
And how do we go about getting a rifle from this run?
Checking with his dealer network is the best advice I can give you. If you are on BookFace, like the Hodge Defense page and watch for an announcement. Keep in mind that the majority of guns he is currently building/working on for the government are the 12.5" SBR's.
Been watching AU/M2 development and hoping for the option to purchase an upper-only. I would happily buy entire rifle, but I live in MD and cannot buy complete ARs (except HBAR), but can buy uppers to fit on my existing/registered AR lowers. Hope Hodge has 'pity' on those of us who are stuck here (for at least another 5 years)! :mad:
snakedoctor
01-24-16, 17:41
I'd even settle for just the Mod2 M-Lok rail to tide me over
Any update as to the availability of Mod-2s?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-18-16, 00:07
I haven't heard a single mention of this company since this thread came out. Am I not paying enough attention or did it fizzle and pop?
I was in Jim's shop two weeks ago. It is very much still alive, and shouldn't be too much longer until guns are available to the public.
We went pig hunting the next week, and about 20 of the people there had Hodge guns...they're out there.
vicious_cb
05-30-17, 05:36
I tried searching but couldn't find an answer. Is there a Hodge/Mega wedge lock rail that's made out of AlLi or are they all made of 7075t6? AlLi receivers are cool but I can get the most bang for the buck on rail where the weight savings are more apparent and the added strength and ridgidity more beneficial since handguards tend to take more abuse than the receiver.
I tried searching but couldn't find an answer. Is there a Hodge/Mega wedge lock rail that's made out of AlLi or are they all made of 7075t6? AlLi receivers are cool but I can get the most bang for the buck on rail where the weight savings are more apparent and the added strength and ridgidity more beneficial since handguards tend to take more abuse than the receiver.
7075 T651
Defaultmp3
05-30-17, 09:22
I tried searching but couldn't find an answer. Is there a Hodge/Mega wedge lock rail that's made out of AlLi or are they all made of 7075t6? AlLi receivers are cool but I can get the most bang for the buck on rail where the weight savings are more apparent and the added strength and ridgidity more beneficial since handguards tend to take more abuse than the receiver.I have been told that there are no longer any plans to make the WedgeLock out of 2099, due to cost considerations, which I think is a shame. The only 2099 handguard I'm aware of at this point are the V7 handguards, which are noticeably less beefy in construction (though I am still confident that they'll stand up to hard use).
methical20
05-30-17, 13:18
These Mod 2s have been quite the disappointment. I'd love to own one, but so few are available for public purchase, that I've gone with other options.
MSparks909
05-30-17, 13:26
These Mod 2s have been quite the disappointment. I'd love to own one, but so few are available for public purchase, that I've gone with other options.
They are unobtanium that's for sure...
nightchief
05-30-17, 14:26
They are unobtanium that's for sure...
This is where I purchased a Hodge hand guard and upper receiver from...
http://www.optactical.com/hodeau2uprer.html
Appears they have complete uppers for sale...
NC
methical20
05-30-17, 14:28
They're listed as out of stock.
nightchief
05-30-17, 14:47
I contacted Mr. Hodge direct when searching for a handguard and upper...he directed me to OP Tactical, though I was never looking for a complete rifle or upper...perhaps a call to him is in order. He was very friendly on the phone and we chatted for 20 mins or so about the wedge lock, etc.
NC
op or weapon outfitters is where you wanna keep your eye on.
I got all my crap for WO.
Dury's Guns may have some Mod 2's, I know they had Mod 1's in the past. They don't list new firearms on their website, only used, so you'll have to give them a call.
For a company wanting to sell guns they don't seem to be putting a lot out there. Just an observation. They may be great but if people can't get them what's the point.
Did these magically delicious unobtainium rifles turn out to be any good (or even exist)? I recall this vaporware being rabidly defended by all those who should have been reasonably skeptical of the outlandish claims.
Did these magically delicious unobtainium rifles turn out to be any good (or even exist)? I recall this vaporware being rabidly defended by all those who should have been reasonably skeptical of the outlandish claims.
That's secret squirrel class info man
MSparks909
05-30-17, 16:42
Did these magically delicious unobtainium rifles turn out to be any good (or even exist)? I recall this vaporware being rabidly defended by all those who should have been reasonably skeptical of the outlandish claims.
X2. These things were/are WAY hyped up. I don't think it's justified. But I'm just a low class civilian guy who likes to shoot a lot so what do I know?
vicious_cb
05-30-17, 16:47
Gov't contracts eat up a good portion of production combined with a small outfit basically handfitting each part to keep tolerances tight means only a few are released to market. Nor would I want them to drop quality to increase production. From end user feedback an HDSI gun is probaby the top of line out of the box fighting AR without going into weird proprietary parts.
Gov't contracts eat up a good portion of production combined with a small outfit basically handfitting each part to keep tolerances tight means only a few are released to market. Nor would I want them to drop quality to increase production. From end user feedback an HDSI gun is probaby the top of line out of the box fighting AR without going into weird proprietary parts.
Anddd that's what we're talking about.
It's an AR. Not some proprietary top secret AI instrument that's facilitate interstellar travel.
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vicious_cb
05-30-17, 17:08
What are we talking about? All I see are inane comments. Don't like it? Don't buy it, no one cares.
So magic fairy dust handfitted parts are good. Weird proprietary parts are bad. Gotcha.
Voodoochild
05-30-17, 17:25
So magic fairy dust handfitted parts are good. Weird proprietary parts are bad. Gotcha.
What's your point? If you have something of substance to share then please do so. Don't shit post just to shit post
What kind of point can even be made about rifles that, practically speaking, don't exist? Or does that count as a point?
nightchief
05-30-17, 18:42
This is not about their rifles, but two of Hodge Def components. I really like the MLOK Wedgelok hand guard design. I wanted it for an 11.5" SBR upper, bu Mega only makes a 9", then 13". HDSI makes the handguard in 10 3/4", so I sought one out. Decided to get the HDSI upper to go with it since it has the anti rotation pin hole. Both items are well executed and met my needs. Cost was in line with other similar products. One Chief's opinion...
NC
That my take on it. The parts are extremely well finished and executed and not really more expensive than equivalent alternatives.
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MSparks909
05-30-17, 21:50
What are we talking about? All I see are inane comments. Don't like it? Don't buy it, no one cares.
That's the problem...I (and most people that aren't "in the know/secret squirrel club" can't). They are vaporware. I can't even find a decent several thousand round review on the Mod 1 or Mod 2. I've seen some short clips of them being shot and I saw SMGLee's video on the upper/lower receiver tolerances, but aside from that zip, nada.
Defaultmp3
05-30-17, 22:33
I will note that 1650 USD for an upper without a BCG, muzzle device, or CH is pretty steep. For the same price, you could get a KAC SR-15 Mod 2, with all those parts; I had my custom upper with extra-Gucci parts built for ~1600 USD (including a Hodge WedgeLock), including labor by a very well-regarded smith (Dave Laubert over at Defensive Creations). Ultimately, you can source everything but the 2099 receiver yourself (the barrel is tricky, but doable, or you can get a Centurion Arms and miss out on the proprietary barrel profile), and you can still get 2055 receivers from V7 (though those are built more for weight savings than strength).
Hopefully, the FN variants will come out sooner rather than later, and that should satisfy anyone who doesn't care to pay out the nose for 2099 receivers.
That's the problem...I (and most people that aren't "in the know/secret squirrel club" can't). They are vaporware. I can't even find a decent several thousand round review on the Mod 1 or Mod 2. I've seen some short clips of them being shot and I saw SMGLee's video on the upper/lower receiver tolerances, but aside from that zip, nada.
I do not have several thousand rounds on it yet, but here is my MOD 2 review.
nightchief
05-30-17, 23:14
I do not have several thousand rounds on it yet, but here is my MOD 2 review.
Was there supposed to be a link to something?
Was there supposed to be a link to something?
Sorry, I was transposing the review to this board with the intent to quick-edit and do just that.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?197042-Hodge-Defense-MOD-2-quick-takes
nightchief
05-30-17, 23:30
Sorry, I was transposing the review to this board with the intent to quick-edit and do just that.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?197042-Hodge-Defense-MOD-2-quick-takes
Nice review! The ergo touches to the trigger guard look great. Is it a 14.5" or 16" barrel? If you don't mind, would you tell us where you purchased the rifle from?
NC
Nice review! The ergo touches to the trigger guard look great. Is it a 14.5" or 16" barrel? If you don't mind, would you tell us where you purchased the rifle from?
NC
14.5"
Directly from Hodge Defense
Drury's is their usual outlet. They are not a "mass retailer", as I noted in my review.
MSparks909
05-31-17, 08:07
14.5"
Directly from Hodge Defense
Drury's is their usual outlet. They are not a "mass retailer", as I noted in my review.
Thank you. I'll be following your other thread.
jerrysimons
05-31-17, 12:11
Dudes need to chill. There are many good options on the market. If you don't like it or don't "get it" then... don't get it!
Knight's makes amazing stuff.
I will say there are reasons for the way things are with Hodge guns. If night vision IR laser is my primary sight I would rather have the WedgeLock rail over the URX 4, we talking the difference between 7075t6 with Titanium barrel nut vs 6061 with possibly a 7068 aluminum barrel nut. Forged aluminum lithium receivers vs forged 7075.
There are material and design differences as well as the whole hand fitting. If you don't see value in that, fine.
This isn't a "Hodge hates you and you suck" thing. Hodge runs his buisiness a certain way limited by capacity and principles and if that is insulting to some cuz they feel left out, I don't know what to say. It is what it is, at least for the time being.
dramabeats
06-03-17, 12:20
That's the problem...I (and most people that aren't "in the know/secret squirrel club" can't). They are vaporware. I can't even find a decent several thousand round review on the Mod 1 or Mod 2. I've seen some short clips of them being shot and I saw SMGLee's video on the upper/lower receiver tolerances, but aside from that zip, nada.
FN clearly doesn't think they're vaporware since they're having to license the barrel steel from him.
They will be releasing their own flavor of Hodge rifles soon
Defaultmp3
06-03-17, 13:27
FN clearly doesn't think they're vaporware since they're having to license the barrel steel from him.Wait, what? You sure they're not licencing the barrel profile, rather than the metallurgical make-up of the barrel steel?
dramabeats
06-03-17, 15:42
Wait, what? You sure they're not licencing the barrel profile, rather than the metallurgical make-up of the barrel steel?
Direct quote from Jim:
"It's base steel is the same, the process is different. ...re 240 family of barrels and FN has a specific spec only to me on my barrels.
Put it to you this way...FN licenses my barrel spec from me for their use, even though they make it....for certain guns."
BufordTJustice
06-03-17, 20:38
Direct quote from Jim:
"It's base steel is the same, the process is different. ...re 240 family of barrels and FN has a specific spec only to me on my barrels.
Put it to you this way...FN licenses my barrel spec from me for their use, even though they make it....for certain guns."
Gotcha. Thank you for that clarification.
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jerrysimons
06-05-17, 06:50
Direct quote from Jim:
"It's base steel is the same, the process is different. ...re 240 family of barrels and FN has a specific spec only to me on my barrels.
Put it to you this way...FN licenses my barrel spec from me for their use, even though they make it....for certain guns."
Fascinating. Wonder what the process does...
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