View Full Version : The 'Sons Of Guns' curse continues...
LIVINGSTON PARISH, LA (WAFB) -
"Two stars of the now canceled reality show "Sons of Guns" have been arrested on child abuse charges.
Warrants were issued Thursday by the Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office for the arrest of Kristafor Ford and his wife Stephanie Hayden. According to the arrest warrant from Livingston Parish, Kristafor is accused of hitting a 9-year-old with a leather belt on the child's lower, right thigh. Reports say there was a large bruise on the child's thigh and buttocks area."
http://www.wafb.com/story/26886988/2-sons-of-guns-reality-stars-arrested-on-cruelty-to-juvenile-charges
And DAMN... just DAMN...
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq169/bbossman1/1024-stephanie-hayden-mug-shot-tmz-2_zpsb24487f9.jpg
Eurodriver
10-25-14, 08:19
Since when does a group of arrogant assholes getting arrested one after the other constitute a "curse" on said group?
Gunfighter.45
10-25-14, 08:24
This really shouldn't be a big surprise. What a bunch of ****ing inbred dumb assess! I mean when you look at them...doesn't the jingle from "deliverance" come to mind?
Since when does a group of arrogant assholes getting arrested one after the other constitute a "curse" on said group?
Well I thought about using "story" or "saga" but didn't think that fit the bill for their victims.
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Ok, I will say it first. Spanking with a leather belt does not equal child abuse.
ETA: there are circumstances where it could be considered child abuse.
Ok, I will say it first. Spanking with a leather belt does not equal child abuse.
It all depends. I have no issue with the use of corporal punishment. Not a fan of using belts or switches and stuff, but I tend to be of the opinion that it's not my business how another parent does things. With hat stated beating a child with a belt can and in some case should be considered abuse. If you start leaving marks, welts, bruises or hit other areas of the body besides their butts you have a problem.
Wow it looks like she has been hitting the methamphetamine pretty hard, it took me a second to recognize her.
I'm not opposed to little physical encouragement, but leaving visible injuries might be carrying things a bit far and certainly will draw scrutiny. Then everyone will find out you're a meth addict. Because damn, while not a prom princess before, she sure turned into a train wreck.
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Crank bugs are good look.....
Morons.
montanadave
10-25-14, 09:24
If the allegations against this gal's dad are true, it's hardly surprising that she is mired in all manner of substance abuse and abusive relationships. Not excusing her behavior if the charges are substantiated. Just noting that the damage done by guys like her father send out ripples in a lot of directions and can affect the lives of a lot of people beyond just the actual victims of the abuse.
It all depends. I have no issue with the use of corporal punishment. Not a fan of using belts or switches and stuff, but I tend to be of the opinion that it's not my business how another parent does things. With hat stated beating a child with a belt can and in some case should be considered abuse. If you start leaving marks, welts, bruises or hit other areas of the body besides their butts you have a problem.
We are in agreement. I just wish I had a dollar for every, well deserved, welt I had on my rear when I was a lot younger! :)
She does look like she has a horrible case of chiggers on her face.
thopkins22
10-25-14, 09:34
I don't want to sound soft, but corporal punishment has little/zero evidence showing that it's beneficial. Do some or even most children that experience it turn out fine? Sure, but so do most children who aren't struck with objects. Most people who snorted cocaine in the 80's are normal and moderately productive members of society today. Hell, most people who took acid in the 60's went on to be productive.
I'm not saying a swat on the behind is abuse, but I am saying that if you're breaking out a belt it probably is getting close. And if you're leaving welts and bruises on the thigh of a nine year old child?
She was very likely abused herself, and it looks like she's working her hardest to make sure that her child grows up to abuse her children as well.
Alpha Sierra
10-25-14, 09:53
http://d357jqib013k9r.cloudfront.net/images/articles/trailer/trailer1.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-25-14, 09:56
I don't want to sound soft, but corporal punishment has little/zero evidence showing that it's beneficial. Do some or even most children that experience it turn out fine? Sure, but so do most children who aren't struck with objects. Most people who snorted cocaine in the 80's are normal and moderately productive members of society today. Hell, most people who took acid in the 60's went on to be productive.
I'm not saying a swat on the behind is abuse, but I am saying that if you're breaking out a belt it probably is getting close. And if you're leaving welts and bruises on the thigh of a nine year old child?
She was very likely abused herself, and it looks like she's working her hardest to make sure that her child grows up to abuse her children as well.
The problem is that we have gone way over the other side. Any kid under the age of five doesn't understand time and consequences. If you give them a pat on the behind people start pulling out their phones. You can't reason with a 3 year old. He tries to run out into a parking lot, will he remember the admonishment or a pat on the behind.
Most people would consider me strict, my Dad would consider me too accommodating, but we've had our kids at real five star restaurants where the staff has been amazed that at 7 and a 5 year old can control themselves for a 2.5 hour dinner.
I'm not even talking corporal punishment, not even private punishment, more like 'management trainee' punishment.
I read a story about Hiram Maxim as a child being referred by his mother to his father for punishment. His father then gave him a thorough discussion of the engineering of a switch design with fulll demonstrations on a bed's duvet. The non-impactful discussion made an impact on young Hiram.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-25-14, 10:05
http://d357jqib013k9r.cloudfront.net/images/articles/trailer/trailer1.jpg
Someday I'll live in the fancy trailer park that has grass to hold me trash...
Who would throw out a perfectly good piece of plywood? The pot is trashed from cooking the meth.
thopkins22
10-25-14, 10:32
The problem is that we have gone way over the other side. Any kid under the age of five doesn't understand time and consequences. If you give them a pat on the behind people start pulling out their phones. You can't reason with a 3 year old. He tries to run out into a parking lot, will he remember the admonishment or a pat on the behind.
Most people would consider me strict, my Dad would consider me too accommodating, but we've had our kids at real five star restaurants where the staff has been amazed that at 7 and a 5 year old can control themselves for a 2.5 hour dinner.
A pat on the behind is one thing, and I don't have a problem with it.
But I would argue that the reason your children behave properly is because you are two good parents who nailed every other aspect of parenting. I sincerely doubt that without physical consequences for actions they would be wild. I wasn't spanked...I never got in trouble in school, I never got arrested, I was present and polite for many adult functions at a very young age. If I was behaving poorly in a restaurant, my mother would pick me up and we were BOTH leaving...to my knowledge she never had to.
I realize that children aren't dogs. I am a firm believer that proper training can't be purely reward based, nor can it be purely punishment based. A mix is appropriate. I'm just not convinced that violence is the appropriate punishment in all but a very few instances.
As a current CPS investigator in Michigan, you don't get arrested for the little stuff. Unless LA has vastly different laws than we do there was a lot going on. Seems to be a trend lately....
Alpha Sierra
10-25-14, 20:11
I'm just not convinced that violence is the appropriate punishment in all but a very few instances.
See here's the thing, no one owes you an explanation of how they discipline their children nor do they need your approval of their methods.
montanadave
10-25-14, 20:27
See here's the thing, no one owes you an explanation of how they discipline their children nor do they need your approval of their methods.
Actually, society does have a say in how a parent disciplines their children. We have laws against child abuse and agencies in place to enforce those laws. You may not like it but that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
thopkins22
10-25-14, 20:42
See here's the thing, no one owes you an explanation of how they discipline their children nor do they need your approval of their methods.
I'm sure that in a civilized society we can discuss it. Pretty sure anyway.
I'm sure that in a civilized society we can discuss it. Pretty sure anyway.
Sure. There's absolutely nothing wrong with corporal punishment....spanking, paddling, whooping...whatever you want to call it. If applied correctly, it works.
Most turds that act out do so because they've gotten away with it their whole life.....
Eurodriver
10-25-14, 21:07
As a current CPS investigator in Michigan, you don't get arrested for the little stuff. Unless LA has vastly different laws than we do there was a lot going on. Seems to be a trend lately....
This is interesting. I was always under the impression that a 9 year old pissed off at her parents could call CPS and send everyone to jail on her word alone.
This is interesting. I was always under the impression that a 9 year old pissed off at her parents could call CPS and send everyone to jail on her word alone.
LOL no. In my neck of the woods child abuse requires either/or "broken bones, disfigurement, or severe bruising not consistent with reasonable corporal punishment". For CPS/DFS to get involved, its got to be over the top, legit child abuse.
Funny thing is, you could replace "9 year old" with '19 year old' and "pissed of at her parents" with "pissed off at her boyfriend" and it would represent what most people think meets the requirements for sexual assault...but that's another thread entirely.
Just so it's understood, I never start a case with the intent to have someone locked up. Even in bad cases my first priority is to get the kid out and have a court petition written to remove properly. Of course we have cases that cross into criminal areas, most of the time I just testify and hope for the best. At least in Michigan, I have very little authority, I have to ask a judge to order what I would like to see.
Moose-Knuckle
10-26-14, 02:40
And here I thought this thread was going to be about Honey Boo-Boo getting canceled over Mama June's boyfriend sexually abusing the girls.
I'm seeing a trend here with white trash reality TV . . .
And here I thought this thread was going to be about Honey Boo-Boo getting canceled over Mama June's boyfriend sexually abusing the girls.
I'm seeing a trend here with white trash reality TV . . .
Whaaaa...? Shocking I tell you, just shocking.
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JBecker 72
10-26-14, 11:23
Damn, she is looking rough...
NCPatrolAR
10-26-14, 13:42
This is interesting. I was always under the impression that a 9 year old pissed off at her parents could call CPS and send everyone to jail on her word alone.
Common misconception
Damn, she is looking rough...
Are you insinuating that, at one time, she looked good?
:confused:
A pat on the behind is one thing, and I don't have a problem with it.
But I would argue that the reason your children behave properly is because you are two good parents who nailed every other aspect of parenting. I sincerely doubt that without physical consequences for actions they would be wild. I wasn't spanked...I never got in trouble in school, I never got arrested, I was present and polite for many adult functions at a very young age. If I was behaving poorly in a restaurant, my mother would pick me up and we were BOTH leaving...to my knowledge she never had to.
I realize that children aren't dogs. I am a firm believer that proper training can't be purely reward based, nor can it be purely punishment based. A mix is appropriate. I'm just not convinced that violence is the appropriate punishment in all but a very few instances.
I got spa ked a few times, the belt once or twice, a lot of corner time and a lot of time outs in school. I cant say one worked better than the other.
Currently Im working on the "no hitting unless to stop dangerous behavior" mentality. Play with matches, run into the street, etc. My kid is too young still to do this yet.
The real problem with parental corporal punishment is that a LOT of parents disipline cuz they are angry, not to reprimand or teach a child.
Don Robison
10-26-14, 22:21
The real problem with parental corporal punishment is that a LOT of parents disipline cuz they are angry, not to reprimand or teach a child.
Yep and many don't know the difference.
thopkins22
10-27-14, 13:58
I got spa ked a few times, the belt once or twice, a lot of corner time and a lot of time outs in school. I cant say one worked better than the other.
Currently Im working on the "no hitting unless to stop dangerous behavior" mentality. Play with matches, run into the street, etc. My kid is too young still to do this yet.
The real problem with parental corporal punishment is that a LOT of parents disipline cuz they are angry, not to reprimand or teach a child.
Thank you for understanding the point. Most children in most situations are perfectly capable of being corrected without violence. In fact in most instances non-violent corrections are far more punitive than a few smacks on the bottom. Hell put yourself in that position. Let's say I DQ in a match because of a violation. What if I could continue the match with a few smacks on my bottom from a big fella vs. having to sit out the rest of the day? I'd take the smacks(pretending that there's nothing overtly weird about grown men spanking each other.) Children are capable of the same thoughts...and if you're absent as a loving parent the rest of the time, they run the risk of associating violence with love(which is probably why this girl beat her own child.)
Perfect example of a parenting philosophy that in my opinion has appropriate usage of corporal punishment. I'm sure your child will shine.
I don't have a child of my own, but have been in a number of dinner conversations with a family friend who is a therapist for SEVERELY damaged and troubled children and adults(much more so than anything which has been discussed in this thread...in fact much more so than anything this ladies father did.) Most people are great, but there are some genuinely sickening things and people out there that I guarantee will turn the stomach of everyone here.
WickedWillis
10-27-14, 14:09
Are you insinuating that, at one time, she looked good?
:confused:
I always thought she looked like Sloth. And the little noise she makes after she laughs is troll-like as well.
29256
Thank you for understanding the point. Most children in most situations are perfectly capable of being corrected without violence. In fact in most instances non-violent corrections are far more punitive than a few smacks on the bottom. Hell put yourself in that position. Let's say I DQ in a match because of a violation. What if I could continue the match with a few smacks on my bottom from a big fella vs. having to sit out the rest of the day? I'd take the smacks.
Sorry but that's a terrible analogy. You didn't intend to "DQ in a match". If a kid knows he is not supposed to write all over the wall with a marker, and chooses to do it......he needs his ass busted. He knew better, He knew what he did was wrong, and pretty much decided "**** it, I'm going to do it".
You analogy would apply if you whipped your kids ass for missing a block at a peewee football game.....not even reasonable to an idiot.
thopkins22
10-27-14, 20:25
Sorry but that's a terrible analogy. You didn't intend to "DQ in a match". If a kid knows he is not supposed to write all over the wall with a marker, and chooses to do it......he needs his ass busted. He knew better, He knew what he did was wrong, and pretty much decided "**** it, I'm going to do it".
You analogy would apply if you whipped your kids ass for missing a block at a peewee football game.....not even reasonable to an idiot.
Or perhaps your kid needs to lose every privilege and entertainment option available to him until he does a satisfactory job of making it right by cleaning or painting the wall. I'll bet you money that my solution corrects the behavior more efficiently and with less trauma...but it involves far more effort from the parent and isn't a thirty second "solution." Playing sports growing up my coaches had something called "do-rights." If you did wrong anywhere(in or out of school) you were going to do right. Which involved a hell of a lot of PT and if it was something you could rectify like leaving a mess in the cafeteria or something, you were going to clean it up as well. They didn't spank us...and we were a well-behaved bunch.
Or perhaps your kid needs to lose every privilege and entertainment option available to him until he does a satisfactory job of making it right by cleaning or painting the wall. I'll bet you money that my solution corrects the behavior more efficiently and with less trauma...but it involves far more effort from the parent and isn't a thirty second "solution." Playing sports growing up my coaches had something called "do-rights." If you did wrong anywhere(in or out of school) you were going to do right. Which involved a hell of a lot of PT and if it was something you could rectify like leaving a mess in the cafeteria or something, you were going to clean it up as well. They didn't spank us...and we were a well-behaved bunch.
That's because they weren't your parents, and you weren't 4 yrs old.
thopkins22
10-27-14, 20:49
That's because they weren't your parents, and you weren't 4 yrs old.
Legal in TX. My Parents would have had to request that I not be paddled to remove the teacher's legal ability to spank someone. The fact that I wasn't four kind of enforces what I believe even more. So someone without developed critical thinking skills is somehow a better candidate to learn from violence than someone who is older and can rationalize what is happening to them?
I don't know of any school here that still does it though...probably because there's very little literature that's been published which can show that it's beneficial in any way. The best that can be argued is that "I was paddled and I turned out fine." But correlation is not causation. ;)
I'm not saying that anyone here who chooses corporal punishment is harming their kids or that anyone isn't a good parent. Kids are resilient little creatures...made out of rubber and with the ability to mentally recover from all sorts of things. That's probably because they don't come with instruction manuals, and there is no clear cut answer for every single kid. So people do the best they can with the tools they have. I just don't believe initiating violence on your kid is the most productive way to see clear results.
Yes I know its legal in Texas, I am from Texas, licks were still given at my HS when I graduated.
Look you can not spank your kids, that's your choice. But I'll tell you right now, 90% of the shithead kids I haul off to juve' were raised by the "we don't spank our kids crowd"...you know, the same crowd that "wants to be their friend".
And your assertion of "So someone without developed critical thinking skills is somehow a better candidate to learn from violence than someone who is older and can rationalize what is happening to them?' Is ridiculous. No they need to develop a cognitive ability to realize the cause and effect of their actions. They do something they know they shouldn't do, and they will be punished. I'm sure however they should be give a stern warning or bargained with by their parents....then by the time they are 15 nobody can control them because they've always gotten their way.....
You parent how you want to, but stop preaching about how corporal punishment is violence. Its been duly noted, and Rachel Maddow thanks your for your service.
thopkins22
10-27-14, 21:28
Look you can not spank your kids, that's your choice. But I'll tell you right now, 90% of the shithead kids I haul off to juve' were raised by the "we don't spank our kids crowd"...you know, the same crowd that "wants to be their friend".
You parent how you want to, but stop preaching about how corporal punishment is violence. Its been duly noted, and Rachel Maddow thanks your for your service.
MMMKAY. Didn't know that calling something what it is made me liberal...if I spanked you against your will what would happen to me?
I don't think you can remove spanking from parenting and replace it with nothing, nor can you replace it with friendship. If at any point I indicated that those were appropriate alternatives to spanking, I sure need to get my memory checked. You're having arguments with straw men. Like the assertion that most of the children you take to juvenile hall were from "that crowd." Well, fewer people than ever spank their children and interestingly enough, the violent crime rate(and other crime rates,) are lower than they've been in decades(lower than when you were being spanked.) If it leads to poor citizens, wouldn't that show up in the crime rate? I'd also say that most parents when dealing with a law enforcement officer are bound to state that they never spank their kids because of the same misconception you pointed out earlier...they think they can get in trouble for it. So we can't really assume that it's the full 90%, though I think it's irrelevant. You could go back a century and those same shit heads would be 90% from families that break out leather straps daily.
Nor have I advocated being best friends with your kid. If anything, I see far more "stern warnings" which are often completely without merit from parents who resort to spanking out of anger because Jr. didn't stop running around the pool the first ten times you asked him to. You won't stop running around the pool after I asked you once? Pick up your toys, we're going home. NOW. Not, I'm going to say it five times, spank you, watch you cry before you resume playing with your buddies...because I can't be bothered to interrupt my own day to address you in a meaningful way.
JBecker 72
10-28-14, 07:56
Are you insinuating that, at one time, she looked good?
:confused:
Touché
I grew up with my Grandfather who retired out of the navy after 40 years in. I remember being spanked with a 2x4, belt, flyswatter, fishing pole, hell whatever was around. No effect except the at that particular moment I stopped doing what I shouldn't be doing, didnt stop my bad behavior because it was a weekly punishment and no biggie. That said my kids both have been spanked once each, by my hand, and now all I have to do is threaten them with it and get results. As long as you say what your going to do when they do wrong (spanking or restriction) and then actually be true to your word every time then it works. (for me) My wife will repeat herself til she's blue in the face and then still have me take care of it. The difference, daddy does what he says he's gonna do, good or bad, and they know it. My boy is 13 and bigger than me by 2" and 15lbs, hasn't been spanked in 7 years and still knows I'll beat his ass if I need to. Thankfully I don't need to.
Too many parents threaten but have no follow through or they over-use punishments until they have no effect.
I grew up with my Grandfather who retired out of the navy after 40 years in. I remember being spanked with a 2x4, belt, flyswatter, fishing pole, hell whatever was around. No effect except the at that particular moment I stopped doing what I shouldn't be doing, didnt stop my bad behavior because it was a weekly punishment and no biggie. That said my kids both have been spanked once each, by my hand, and now all I have to do is threaten them with it and get results. As long as you say what your going to do when they do wrong (spanking or restriction) and then actually be true to your word every time then it works. (for me) My wife will repeat herself til she's blue in the face and then still have me take care of it. The difference, daddy does what he says he's gonna do, good or bad, and they know it. My boy is 13 and bigger than me by 2" and 15lbs, hasn't been spanked in 7 years and still knows I'll beat his ass if I need to. Thankfully I don't need to.
Too many parents threaten but have no follow through or they over-use punishments until they have no effect.
This!
I see this a lot with my wife and a couple friends wives. For the most part the kids dont take them seriously because they dont follow through with the threatened punishment. But as soon as dad is called the kids shape right up.
exkc135driver
10-28-14, 15:05
...
As long as you say what your [sic] going to do when they do wrong (spanking or restriction) and then actually be true to your word every time then it works.
...
Too many parents threaten but have no follow through or they over-use punishments until they have no effect.
That, IMHO, is one of the secrets of good parenting ... do what you say you're going to do. Every time. No exceptions. If you say you're going to do X to the kid if he does Y, then if he does Y, do X. If you say you're going to be at his recital/wrestling match/play/whatever, then even if you don't care about recitals/wrestling/plays/etc., friggin' be there. Period. No excuses.
Moose-Knuckle
10-28-14, 15:08
I grew up with my Grandfather who retired out of the navy after 40 years in. I remember being spanked with a 2x4, belt, flyswatter, fishing pole, hell whatever was around. No effect except the at that particular moment I stopped doing what I shouldn't be doing
This.
One time when my grandfather (WWII Vet as well) was watching me when I was about four or five I clobbered my older sister. He spanked my little ass with a fireplace shovel lol!
Reagans Rascals
10-28-14, 16:14
Ok, I will say it first. Spanking with a leather belt does not equal child abuse.
ETA: there are circumstances where it could be considered child abuse.
I was spanked with a hand, a belt, a switch and anything else that was handy at the time...In fact I had to go pick the switch from the tree and was told if it wasn't big enough they'd use it till it broke and make me get another one... And I'm happy to this day that they did it... That is the problem with today's society. Talking to and time outs don't do a ****ing thing, the only thing a misbehaving child understands is a spanking, plain and simple...
But there is a big difference between beating a child and disciplining ..
I think this may be a little overboard... That entire show was full of worthless people but I don't necessarily think filing felony warrants is prudent in this case. This seems like a witch hunt IMHO... anything they can get any of them on will stick
Eurodriver
10-28-14, 16:17
That, IMHO, is one of the secrets of good parenting ... do what you say you're going to do. Every time. No exceptions. If you say you're going to do X to the kid if he does Y, then if he does Y, do X. If you say you're going to be at his recital/wrestling match/play/whatever, then even if you don't care about recitals/wrestling/plays/etc., friggin' be there. Period. No excuses.
I always laugh my ass off when I hear (usually teenage) moms saying "Okay, I'm going to count to 3 and if you don't stop you're in big trouble!"
"One....two....three. Okay now stop. Okay stop or I'm going to count to three again..."
JBecker 72
10-28-14, 16:51
I used to get the wooden spoon a lot. And my mom never did it. I had to wait in my room until dad came home. The build up to it was usually the worst part.
One time I thought I was being slick when I put a magazine down my pants. That turned out to be a big mistake as he caught it right away.
Another thing my dad would do if me or my brother wouldn't fess up to what went down he would get both of us. That way he knew he got the guilty offender.
Good times.
Moose-Knuckle
10-28-14, 17:51
I used to get the wooden spoon a lot. And my mom never did it. I had to wait in my room until dad came home. The build up to it was usually the worst part.
One time I thought I was being slick when I put a magazine down my pants. That turned out to be a big mistake as he caught it right away.
Another thing my dad would do if me or my brother wouldn't fess up to what went down he would get both of us. That way he knew he got the guilty offender.
Good times.
Yeah the build up was the worst part about it. I didn't get in trouble at school for the fact they would call my mom. And my elementary school principle used a thick ass paddle with air holes drilled into it!
When my mother would spank me on the butt with an open hand I got the idea to put some Hot Wheels (metal toy cars) in my back pockets. She only fell for that once lol!
She actually braided a cat of nine tails out of leather to use on my legs, minus the jagged shards of pottery of course.
I was spanked with a hand, a belt, a switch and anything else that was handy at the time...In fact I had to go pick the switch from the tree and was told if it wasn't big enough they'd use it till it broke and make me get another one... And I'm happy to this day that they did it... That is the problem with today's society. Talking to and time outs don't do a ****ing thing, the only thing a misbehaving child understands is a spanking, plain and simple...
But there is a big difference between beating a child and disciplining ..
I think this may be a little overboard... That entire show was full of worthless people but I don't necessarily think filing felony warrants is prudent in this case. This seems like a witch hunt IMHO... anything they can get any of them on will stick
Our parents must be related in some way. :)
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