View Full Version : Adjustable sights on a carry gun?
Thoughts? Considering ordering a Dawson Adjustable rear and matching front for my carry and training Glock 17's. This would be on my daily carry gun carried AIWB, not in a duty or exposed context. Anyone carry adjustables? Thoughts from anyone using the Dawson adjustable rear? Thanks.
vicious_cb
10-27-14, 23:33
I would never put target sights on a carry gun.
teutonicpolymer
10-28-14, 05:57
I would maybe do it but if I remember correctly the Dawsons require a very tall front sight which might not fit my holster
Thoughts? Considering ordering a Dawson Adjustable rear and matching front for my carry and training Glock 17's. This would be on my daily carry gun carried AIWB, not in a duty or exposed context. Anyone carry adjustables? Thoughts from anyone using the Dawson adjustable rear? Thanks.
For many years I was of the belief that this was a no go. Then I bought a set of Dawson's for my Glock. I carefully looked them over and realized that (if properly fit), they were not going anywhere. Then I found out that a lot of HSLD types are running them (along with many Tier 1 backgrounded instructors) with no issues.
Now here is the questions you must ask yourself:
1. Is your gun accurate enough to take advantage of them?
A)No need to install these precision sights if your pistol cannot shoot sub 2" groups at 25yds.
2. Are you an accurate enough shooter to take advantage of these sights?
A)No need to put these sights in if you are not capable of delivering sub 2" groups while standing.
3. Do you routinely shoot beyond 25yds with your pistol (50yds, 100yds, etc)?
A)If you stop at 25yds, you probably don't need them on your gun.
Realize that most ALL Civy gun fights are at distances that most people would point shoot at (somewhere around 10ft). The argument can be made that you don't even NEED sights on your pistol. With that said, I shoot out to 100yds all the time, can shoot 1" groups at 25yds and have a half inch capable gun at 25yds. I am a plan for the worst and hope for the best kind of guy. So if you like knowing that you have the capability to make accurate shots at distance, I would say go for it!
YMMV.
C4
Much wisdom in Grant’s reply.
I’ve been running Meprolight adjustable night sights on my EDC, a Gen3 G17, for the last 2½ years with no problems. I also have Dawsons on a couple of other guns that I would carry without hesitation.
Back when cops carried revolvers, LAPD and many other agencies issued them with adjustable sights. When the cops in other agencies had latitude, many of them upgraded from fixed-sight pieces to ones with adjustable sights as soon as they could, so there's a long and storied history of using adjustable sights on duty guns. They're far from being as dainty as some would have us believe.
In regard to Grant’s first and second requirements, I’d add that your pistol AND AMMO must be accurate for you to benefit. The real test is with your carry ammo--most pistols today are very accurate and most duty ammo is very good as well, but most FMJ practice ammo is pretty bad. I also think that 3” groups are probably the tipping point—if you consistently get 3” groups at 25 yards, then you’re well on your way to consistently getting 2” (or smaller) groups. Once you reach this level of accuracy, adjustable sights make it easy to put the group exactly where you want it, especially when range increases beyond 25 yards.
Another benefit is the speed and ease of getting a zero. You can zero fixed sights with the hammer-and-punch method or with a press. But the more precise you want the zero to be, the harder it is and the more time and ammo it takes to dial it in properly. With adjustables, you need half a box of ammo, a screwdriver, and 20 minutes. (Verifying your zero will be the same in all cases.) This matters when ammo is in short supply or you’re forced to switch loads—contrary to popular opinion, POI between loads can vary in both windage and elevation, dramatically in some cases. POI can also change between lot numbers of the same load.
They're also a godsend when working with Gocks, which may not be regulated properly as they come from the factory.
One downside I have found to adjustables is that they may not be fully dehorned. You may need to get after them with a file or a stone to remove the burrs that make carrying them uncomfortable. My EDC rides in a Dale Fricke holster built for an RDS-equipped pistol, and the RDS hood keeps the sight out of my side. Ordering a holster with an extra-long sweat guard will usually do the same thing.
Here’s an interesting thread with input from someone whose opinion we can probably trust: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?94770-Adjustable-Sights
Okie John
On one of my 1911s, I have Kensight rear adjustable sights that have smooth edges and don't require a tall front sight.
teutonicpolymer
10-28-14, 15:24
Probably the biggest advantage is that you can adjust vertically for different loads. Horizontal adjustments are no big deal with dovetail sights (albeit annoying) but vertical is restricted (you can only go one way- and it is permanent).
Thanks Grant, good info! While i'm not at the level where I can pull of 2" @25, I can keep a 10 round group in the black of a B8. I like the idea of getting a precise zero as my prefered 147gr carry loads tend to print high with the sights i've tried and like.
teutonicpolymer
10-28-14, 16:38
Thanks Grant, good info! While i'm not at the level where I can pull of 2" @25, I can keep a 10 round group in the black of a B8. I like the idea of getting a precise zero as my prefered 147gr carry loads tend to print high with the sights i've tried and like.
This is probably a given but 2" at 25 yards might be better than the limits of the pistol itself while zero can still be a significant issue. I mean I have used fixed sights which were close to 2ft high at 50 yards (so let's say close to a foot high at 25 yards).
I don't see the purpose. The engagement distance is going to measured in single ft digits and happen very fast. There seems to be a fair number of robustly built adjustable sites, but at the ranges of engagement what's the value? Sites designed to get the front site on target as fast as the eye can get it there and the brain can process, seems the goal and speed with a slightly larger groups a possibility but the trade off seemingly worth it, assuming you have time to use the sites at all.
No one adjusts for elevation or windage in CCW scenario right? :cool:
Having said that, I have had Wilson adjustable sights on a few CCW 1911s that came on the guns, and no complains, they didn't lose zero, never broke, etc. and I had no urge to change them, but I wouldn't opt for them on a CCW gun nor change good fixed sights for them on a CCW gun.
Your mileage may vary but never understood the value of adjustable site on a CCW gun.
Another thing is, "fixed" sights aren't so fixed. It's not as easy to adjust fixed sights because it involves doing things like changing out the front sight or removing material from the top of the rear sight (whatever is best) for elevation, and/or drifting the rear sight for windage, but it's all do-able.
vicious_cb
10-28-14, 23:00
What is so special about dawsons that make them more durable than other target sights?
What is so special about dawsons that make them more durable than other target sights?
I don't think there are any better options for a Glock.
Ive had Dawson Adjustables on my 3rd Gen G19 for years and Ive never had an issue. Had around 3000 rounds through it and the fiber optic hasn't fallen out as I have heard people complain about. It does scrape up your holster a bit leaving some residue on the front sight at first, but I see that as a non-issue. I am just as quick with them as with my Gen 2 with fixed sights with the added benefit of increased accuracy at range. Being able to make hits at range without a loss in speed is a win-win for me.
Rick
I've been using them since I started pistol shooting in 2011. I carry AIWB as well. If you have a bit of a gut, the corners might be an issue if you carry your gun at an angle. Straight drop shouldn't be an issue.
I use the black rear and a .125 fiber front. Fiber has never broken on my either, and I use to use a VG2 all the time.
I won't run a fixed rear. Simply no need.
Thanks Grant, good info! While i'm not at the level where I can pull of 2" @25, I can keep a 10 round group in the black of a B8. I like the idea of getting a precise zero as my prefered 147gr carry loads tend to print high with the sights i've tried and like.
That is a fine group (roughly 4-5 inches). You might be restricted by your guns accuracy so you will want to check the barrel hood to slide fit on it. Tighter = more accurate.
C4
I don't see the purpose. The engagement distance is going to measured in single ft digits and happen very fast. There seems to be a fair number of robustly built adjustable sites, but at the ranges of engagement what's the value? Sites designed to get the front site on target as fast as the eye can get it there and the brain can process, seems the goal and speed with a slightly larger groups a possibility but the trade off seemingly worth it, assuming you have time to use the sites at all.
No one adjusts for elevation or windage in CCW scenario right? :cool:
Having said that, I have had Wilson adjustable sights on a few CCW 1911s that came on the guns, and no complains, they didn't lose zero, never broke, etc. and I had no urge to change them, but I wouldn't opt for them on a CCW gun nor change good fixed sights for them on a CCW gun.
Your mileage may vary but never understood the value of adjustable site on a CCW gun.
You can get fiber and tritium front sights through Dawson. You can also paint the front sight if you so desire. At the distances you describe, you do not need ANY sights (actually). So what color they are is really irrelevant IMHO.
Distance shooting helps ID all ones flaws where as shooting close up masks all ones flaws. So I shoot distance a lot because I want my problems to be MAGNIFIED so that I can better address them. Shooting at distance also (naturally) makes you a faster shooter because the target looks HUGE!
I work security in an extremely large building every Sunday. 50yd shots are normal (and we have 110yd ones as well). If an active shooter/ISIS/etc whack job comes in and starts shooting the place up, I can take the shot with confidence. If you lack said confidence, you must move closer to the threat. This increases the ability of the bad guy to hit you. Pass on that.
I know some are reading the above and say; "well that doesn't apply to me." It might not, but have you ever gone to the mall with your family or friends? They could be at one end and you could be at the other. Are you just going to leave them? Or are you going to protect them? Shooting at distance (and knowing what size target you can hit) really builds your confidence. So give it a try!
C4
What is so special about dawsons that make them more durable than other target sights?
How they are built. Depending on the model, the rear sight has two pointed screws that dig into the slide. These are ported (covered) by a top flap so they cannot escape. This, along with a normal dovetail fit and loctite means they are not coming out. Also the elevation and windage screws have a very heavy positive click to them. So you are not going to bump them and have them move.
I have them on a Glock and an M&P 5". Both have seen tons of rounds and classes. No issues.
C4
Agree with grant shooting distance showing errors to correct will make your closer shooting much more effective. Many people throw a fist size group at 7-10 yards ( which is really showing you are making a lot of mistakes!) and call it good. I recently attended a vickers class and he is of the opinion whatever group you shoot on a regular one way range is going to double or triple in a fight. Suddenly your fist size group is the size of a basketball and when an adversary turns and blades to you that would mean probably 50+% of your shots would miss him or her entirely.
A goal of one hole groups the size of a golf ball or less at 7-10 yards is where you need to be. If getting a perfect zero to do this requires adjustable sights go ahead. Many of my guns carried regularly have adjustables ( 1911's smith revolvers) and they have never given me any issue with carry. My glocks have been sighted with fixed sights drifted or replaced to put rounds exactly where I want them.
I have a set of Dawson precision sights with the adjustable rear on a Gen3 Glock 17 with fitted barsto barrel. I love the sights, BUT when carried IWB they have some sharp spots that poke my fat gut. OWB in RCS kydex no issues of course.
I do think their policy on fixing POI issues with a free front sight is awesome, so I have also equipped another G17 with a set of their lower profile carry sights and have been quite happy with those.
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