View Full Version : ACR current status?
So I haven't been paying any attention to the Bushmaster (windham..or whatever they are called nowadays) ACR, but I got curious...
So its 2014..almost 2015, has the ACR been offered with a 300blk barrel? I'm assuming not, since my only google findings are of guys that are taking regular AR barrels and retro fitting them with all the ACR parts.
Is this platform pretty much done? (if so, its sad because it had potential)
I think that was a platform that pretty much died right out of the gate due it being left to Shrubmaster. It had potential, but never had the support it needed. Did they ever even produce the 6.8 barrels that were advertised when it first came out?
It is dead for all intents and purposes. Aftermarket support is nonexistent and while every year at SHOT it seems that they tease everyone with conversion kits I don't know of one that has made it to the market to be purchased. The concept was great when Magpul came up with it but it has been so poorly handled that it at this point I don't even consider it a viable combat rifle option. If they would remove head from ass, finish refining the design, offer more barrel options/twist rate/support/conversions, then I think it could be something as of now.... send flowers and my regards to the family of the deceased.
Any word on whether or not the Remington version will come to the civilian market?
Any word on whether or not the Remington version will come to the civilian market?
From what I have heard no, Bushmaster is the only line for the civilian market for the ACR. Which is sad since the Remington version does feature things that most here would want, IE 1/7 twist barrel and lighter weight receiver, though I am not sure if overall quality would be any better.
I'm a fan of the ACR. I know it's tainted by the bushmaster name but for the most part they have been solid rifles. Having had both a ACR and a Scar I prefer the ACR every time besides weight. But send a good DD or BCM barrel to Marvin Pitts and that will help out a lot with the weight factor, and you'll have a better barrel anyways.
The lack of factory support has sucked, however after market guys are coming up with some awesome stuff for the ACR. it's easy to have a good AR barrel converted for the ACR, and aftermarket Alloy lowers, and AK Magazine compatible Lowers are coming out as well. There is conversion barrels available from bushmaster, but no 300BLK just yet.
www.acrforum.com is an excellent resource.
I'm a fan of the ACR. I know it's tainted by the bushmaster name but for the most part they have been solid rifles. Having had both a ACR and a Scar I prefer the ACR every time besides weight. But send a good DD or BCM barrel to Marvin Pitts and that will help out a lot with the weight factor, and you'll have a better barrel anyways.
The lack of factory support has sucked, however after market guys are coming up with some awesome stuff for the ACR. it's easy to have a good AR barrel converted for the ACR, and aftermarket Alloy lowers, and AK Magazine compatible Lowers are coming out as well. There is conversion barrels available from bushmaster, but no 300BLK just yet.
www.acrforum.com is an excellent resource.
Can you summarize the latest developments for the ACR?
PatrioticDisorder
11-02-14, 17:46
Any word on whether or not the Remington version will come to the civilian market?
I wouldn't even buy a remington ACR, Travis Haley had his hands on a REMINGTON ACR and reported the rifle was basically junk and said he much prefered the SCAR...
bigdog2003_99
11-02-14, 18:36
Travis had an early Remington Acr IIRC. The one in all of his pics was the equivalent to a Enhanced Acr which means it was an early prototype. No magnesium lower or lightweight rails either.
That being said, the new developments for the Acr are going to come from Marvin Pitts unless BM would pull their heads from their asses... Marvin is looking to upgrade the lower to one that uses AR grips and already converts Ar barrels to work with the Acr.
As far as 300blk, I'm one of the few with a SBR setup that works.
I'll echo what bigdog is saying. The support will come from the aftermarket until Remington gets it together. They're too busy trying to sell ARs. I was a huge fan of the ACR with conversion kits in 5.56x45 (1/7"), 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 Russian. My rifle worked great with the other calibers. Magazines were problematic until sorted but that's easy enough.
Lately, I've been considering getting back into the ACR. I enjoyed the rifle and the ACR community.
SamM
EDIT: Added a picture of my ACR with the 7.62x39 conversion installed.
Travis had an early Remington Acr IIRC. The one in all of his pics was the equivalent to a Enhanced Acr which means it was an early prototype. No magnesium lower or lightweight rails either.
That being said, the new developments for the Acr are going to come from Marvin Pitts unless BM would pull their heads from their asses... Marvin is looking to upgrade the lower to one that uses AR grips and already converts Ar barrels to work with the Acr.
As far as 300blk, I'm one of the few with a SBR setup that works.
Ya I stumbled across your vids on the interwebs, and they kinda got me thinking how cool the platform would be with the 300blkout. A 10.5" 300blk barrel, and a 16" 5.56 barrel would make for a versatile set up.
This is another example of a gun company located on the east coast.
The pool of employees comes from the liberal northeast.
They can't legally own the stuff they make. They aren't gun people. They don't understand the problems.
bigdog2003_99
11-03-14, 20:11
Ya I stumbled across your vids on the interwebs, and they kinda got me thinking how cool the platform would be with the 300blkout. A 10.5" 300blk barrel, and a 16" 5.56 barrel would make for a versatile set up.
The 300 is sweet on the rifle, but it wasn't designed for a pistol length gas system so there's alot of cutting to make it fit. The funny part is the barrel remains almost completely unmodified and the gas system gets a complete overhaul, where with a carbine system, it's the opposite.
Scotty, you might be completely right on that aspect too. BM has the specs and approval for the Remington upgraded parts but refuses to release them.
Too many failures here:
1. Branded this under the bushmaster name. This scared away all the hardcore shooters, instructors, and high end collectors.
2. Having a separate mil (remington) version and a junkier bushmaster civilian version.
3. Starting the product launch with the fixed stock version instead of the full featured folding stock version
4. Not doing any engineering changes to improve the weight
5. No SBR options.
It makes you wonder how the decision makers at these gun companies get their jobs. They're about as solid as Obama appointees.
Moose-Knuckle
11-04-14, 15:51
Too many failures here:
1. Branded this under the bushmaster name. This scared away all the hardcore shooters, instructors, and high end collectors.
2. Having a separate mil (remington) version and a junkier bushmaster civilian version.
3. Starting the product launch with the fixed stock version instead of the full featured folding stock version
4. Not doing any engineering changes to improve the weight
5. No SBR options.
This and being over $1K MORE than the promised MSRP . . .
I have one and I love it. I don't think the platform is dead. I think the company was making hay while the sun shined and ramped up their production to take advantage of the record AR sales. now that things are slowing down companies will be looking at way to build a better mouse trap to catch their share of the buyers out there. The ACR is the perfect platform. I don't have a problem with the bushmaster name.....most people don't there a few diehards who keep the chant alive over a screw up and drop in quality control almost a decade ago. i have had the same bushy AR since 2004 with I don't how many round through it by now...I did change the semi BCG for a Larue F/A BCG ceracoated...other than that it's the same internals....
Fortunately most have been solved aftermarket. It is still a Bushmaster, however very few have had issues, and have Marvin Pitts convert a DD, BCM, or (insert brand here) barrel and that helps with the weight, and the SBR issue if needed. Also the 10" ACR is lighter than the 10" Scar. I agree the fixed stock was a stupid idea, as well as having a separate Remington and Bushmaster design.
Too many failures here:
1. Branded this under the bushmaster name. This scared away all the hardcore shooters, instructors, and high end collectors.
2. Having a separate mil (remington) version and a junkier bushmaster civilian version.
3. Starting the product launch with the fixed stock version instead of the full featured folding stock version
4. Not doing any engineering changes to improve the weight
5. No SBR options.
Fortunately most have been solved aftermarket. It is still a Bushmaster, however very few have had issues, and have Marvin Pitts convert a DD, BCM, or (insert brand here) barrel and that helps with the weight, and the SBR issue if needed. Also the 10" ACR is lighter than the 10" Scar. I agree the fixed stock was a stupid idea, as well as having a separate Remington and Bushmaster design.
While these are valid points, I don't think someone should require the work of a 3rd party to get SBR barrels.
This and being over $1K MORE than the promised MSRP . . .
I do know if I agree with this.
The SCAR sells ok. So does the SG553 that were imported. Both of these guns were/are expensive. The MKE MP5s flew off the shelves.
A gun will sell if corners are not cut.
The HK MR556 flopped because it is expensive with cut corners.
The ACR could be selling well at $1800 street price if the problems noted in my previous post were fixed by Remington.
I think the ACR has more potential than the SCAR.
PatrioticDisorder
11-04-14, 22:08
I think the ACR has more potential than the SCAR.
How so? Plenty of aftermarket support for the SCAR...
Moose-Knuckle
11-05-14, 00:56
I do know if I agree with this.
The SCAR sells ok. So does the SG553 that were imported. Both of these guns were/are expensive. The MKE MP5s flew off the shelves.
A gun will sell if corners are not cut.
The HK MR556 flopped because it is expensive with cut corners.
The ACR could be selling well at $1800 street price if the problems noted in my previous post were fixed by Remington.
IIRC when the ACR debuted Bushmaster had a MSRP of $2500. For at least two years everyone was saying that when the Masada was unveiled that it was going to be $1500 ballpark with quick change barrel, caliber conversions, full ambi, telescoping side folder w/ adjustable cheek riser, etc.
I would rather have a Beretta ARX-100 than any rifle by Sig (non Swiss Arms of course) or the ACR.
10mmSpringfield
11-05-14, 01:02
I have a basic ACR I bought a year ago for less than 1800 bucks new, only mod is the Geissele trigger.
Shoots as well as any AR I have of that length and the 1/8-9 twist barrel hasn't caused any accuracy problems. It's not a tack driver, but it's not a scattergun either.
I don't clean it and take it in the rain and mud out in the Front Range all the time to keep the bastard coyotes at bay, it has never failed to function.
I have literally nothing good or bad to say about it. Most people who shoot it just comment on the great trigger... which is an aftermarket part.
I think the ACR has more potential than the SCAR.
How so? Plenty of aftermarket support for the SCAR...
Yeah, I'm curious as well. Seems like both SCARs are doing far better than the ACR, and they have way more support, both from the manufacturer, and aftermarket.
10mmSpringfield
11-05-14, 23:53
Yeah, I'm curious as well. Seems like both SCARs are doing far better than the ACR, and they have way more support, both from the manufacturer, and aftermarket.
SCARS are nice toys for the 308, but the 556 wouldn't really be called a resounding success.
I prefer the feel and balance of the ACR, and unmodified G2 PMAGs won't ruin my ACR.
I probably wouldn't buy the ACR again, but I don't see it as any better/worse than the SCAR 16--and 2400 bucks is a LOT for something that can't outshoot an AR that costs half as much.
SCARS are nice toys for the 308, but the 556 wouldn't really be called a resounding success.
I prefer the feel and balance of the ACR, and unmodified G2 PMAGs won't ruin my ACR.
I probably wouldn't buy the ACR again, but I don't see it as any better/worse than the SCAR 16--and 2400 bucks is a LOT for something that can't outshoot an AR that costs half as much.
Ah. So it's a personal preference thing. I can get that, I just swing the other way on this one. I played with both the ACR and SCAR bak in '10 before I ever entered the 5.56 market. Found that I very much preferred the SCAR, and haven't looked back since. To each their own.
And if you're paying $2400 for a 16S, you really need to look around more.
Larry Vickers
11-09-14, 06:19
This is another example of a gun company located on the east coast.
The pool of employees comes from the liberal northeast.
They can't legally own the stuff they make. They aren't gun people. They don't understand the problems.
Pretty spot on summary right there !!!
I also agree it's a preference between the scar and acr(both great rifles) I at one time debating between the two...I have shot the scar and acr, but once I shouldered the acr and non reciprocating CH...and oh butter smooth action I ended up with the acr and knew from the get go already about aftermarket support in regards to different calibers(does not bother me).
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg544/sr16ve2/imagejpg1_zps98c80c1a.jpg
Yeah, I'm curious as well. Seems like both SCARs are doing far better than the ACR, and they have way more support, both from the manufacturer, and aftermarket.
Base gun vs base gun, I think the acr is better laid out.
The Remington Defense ACR is the rifle they need to make - I love this gun. Significantly lighter, better charging handle design, the hand guard is fantastic, proper barrel profile/twist rate, etc. There is no quick change barrel, but I don't honestly care. Fingers crossed this gun makes it to the commercial market at some point...
29651
The Remington Defense ACR is the rifle they need to make - I love this gun. Significantly lighter, better charging handle design, the hand guard is fantastic, proper barrel profile/twist rate, etc. There is no quick change barrel, but I don't honestly care. Fingers crossed this gun makes it to the commercial market at some point...
29651
Exactly
Someone should make something like that...
Someone should make something like that...
Remington Defense does. I have one. Unfortunately I can probably count the number of those guns in private hands on two fingers.
notorious_ar15
11-19-14, 17:34
The Remington Defense ACR is the rifle they need to make - I love this gun. Significantly lighter, better charging handle design, the hand guard is fantastic, proper barrel profile/twist rate, etc. There is no quick change barrel, but I don't honestly care. Fingers crossed this gun makes it to the commercial market at some point...
29651
I can't quite make out the charging handle - is the Remington version is able to have the charging handle mounted on the left side, like on the FAL?
I can't quite make out the charging handle - is the Remington version is able to have the charging handle mounted on the left side, like on the FAL?
Correct - the location is the same as the Bushmaster ACR, I believe, but it folds. The gun came with two charging handles (right and left side) so you could configure it for your preference.
Remington Defense does. I have one. Unfortunately I can probably count the number of those guns in private hands on two fingers.
You know, the ACR has potential, but they have never lived up to it. When deciding whether to buy a rifle one has to make decisions based on what is available and the facts at hand. My decision to go with the SCAR platforms was based on what was known at the time 3-4 years ago.
The balance of the ACR was nose heavy for me, I preferred the ACR stock, but I liked the folder of the SCAR and the balance of the SCAR. I preferred the development process the SCAR went through. I also preferred FN as a manufacturer. I also preferred a chrome lined barrel and 1/7 twist vs. 1/9. And the reciprocating CH gives me more control of the BCG although it has it's down sides as well. And Bushmaster was probably one of my last choices for a manufacturer.
I now own two SCAR 16s and two SCAR 17s. I bought them over time and I've noticed that FN has made improvements each year. The butt-stock tolerances have really tightened up. The finishes have improved (although they were not that bad to begin with). Parts interchangeability between the 16 and 17 was good, but availability of parts has also improved greatly. There are a fair number of aftermarket parts and triggers. And no shortage of magazines. The iron sights which had inadequate detent on earlier rifles are much tighter now. Barrel options are available for the SCARs.
For these reasons I keep the SCARs along side the ARs and AKs.
For the ACR to be successful to the point where I would buy one they would have to have a committed quality manufacturer behind them. They would need a different barrel(s) and the rifle would need to be lighter and better balanced.
Remington Defense does. I have one. Unfortunately I can probably count the number of those guns in private hands on two fingers.
Any chance you'll have it at the Hard as Hell match in St. George this weekend?
Any chance you'll have it at the Hard as Hell match in St. George this weekend?
Unfortunately, no, I won't be there.
I had the basic ACR and I really enjoyed it. I knew it was more of a range toy than an actual rifle I would carry into battle with me. The more I put it through (getting it dirty, high round counts in between cleanings, and so on) I think I got lucky with one of the good ones with few problems. I would probably buy another one and just mess with it here and there, but I do like it more than the SCAR I've shot a few different times.
jamesavery22
12-08-14, 10:27
I'm currently working on a large ACR project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMxrabG5R6U
That being said I wouldn't recommend the rifle to any normal person looking for a rifle.
The ACR community is very special. It's the only community I know of that's coming up with new ideas for the rifle, actually building parts, and selling them to each other.
silencertalk.com is close. Much harder to sell those parts to each other though :)
The Saiga community was that for some time. People like csspecs would be in the forum, using members for T&E etc. Magpul does that to some degree. Not the same though.
If you're a builder and want to machine parts then it's an awesome route with a huge support from the community.
If you want to buy a rifle and have confidence in the company that produces it supporting you then run away. Fast.
AZ-Renegade
12-09-14, 10:56
I know it is a pipe dream, but if Magpul could ever get in the position to make these themselves following the original Masada design (ability to switch out barrels, lowers and calibers), they could really turn things around for the ACR. A truly modular and reliable weapon system with those options would easily sell for what the current ACR (or SCAR for that matter) goes for.
The current ACR just does not seem "Adaptive" enough for the price.
jamesavery22
12-09-14, 14:33
For those that can machine their own parts that kind of caliber swapping is possible now. Just not commercially on anything close to a mass produced market.
AK, 300BLK, 5.56, 6.8, can all be done with the ACR. And for those that can make parts the ACR is the easiest path for what does need to be made.
It's a tragedy that there is no big company making those parts on a large scale so everyone can have it.
I agree with this. The ACR has so much potential and as many on acrforum.com have discovered, the sky is the limit.
For those that can machine their own parts that kind of caliber swapping is possible now. Just not commercially on anything close to a mass produced market.
AK, 300BLK, 5.56, 6.8, can all be done with the ACR. And for those that can make parts the ACR is the easiest path for what does need to be made.
It's a tragedy that there is no big company making those parts on a large scale so everyone can have it.
For those that can machine their own parts that kind of caliber swapping is possible now. Just not commercially on anything close to a mass produced market.
AK, 300BLK, 5.56, 6.8, can all be done with the ACR. And for those that can make parts the ACR is the easiest path for what does need to be made.
It's a tragedy that there is no big company making those parts on a large scale so everyone can have it.
There's a 6.5 Grendel ACR conversion kit up for sale right now... http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?9142-WTS-WTT-6.5-Grendel-ACR-Conversion-Kit
Moose-Knuckle
12-09-14, 15:19
The current ACR just does not seem "Adaptive" enough for the price.
IMHO there really is nothing too adaptive about a rifle that can't even switch out pistol grips, YMMV.
jamesavery22
12-10-14, 14:49
There's a 6.5 Grendel ACR conversion kit up for sale right now... http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?9142-WTS-WTT-6.5-Grendel-ACR-Conversion-Kit
And x39's exist :)
http://i.imgur.com/EQgIZeq.jpg
AZ-Renegade
12-10-14, 17:08
Is that a Remington lower? I see it has select fire moldings.
If Bushmaster themselves at least put the money into manufacturing different lowers and barrels, they'd have the makings of a winner.
And x39's exist :)
http://i.imgur.com/EQgIZeq.jpg
I wouldn't call anything airsoft an option.
jamesavery22
12-11-14, 08:12
Is that a Remington lower? I see it has select fire moldings.
If Bushmaster themselves at least put the money into manufacturing different lowers and barrels, they'd have the makings of a winner.
No it's a only a proof of concept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMxrabG5R6U
It's an airsoft lower heavily modded to fit on the actual rifle and take AK mags.
There's an ongoing project by one of the ACRforum members to make an aluminum one from scratch. Again, why I love that community.
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