View Full Version : new Wilson Combat Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical
Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical pistol
Brigadier configuration with heavy duty slide
G configuration ambidextrous decocker only
4.7” Stainless match grade barrel with recessed target crown
Extra tight fitting tolerances for improved accuracy
All steel components (decocker, trigger, magazine release, guide rod)
Oversize magazine release with checkered pad
Checkered frontstrap and backstrap
Beveled magazine well
Rounded trigger guard
Rail for mounting light or laser
Elite skeletonized hammer
D hammer spring
WC rear Battlesight and tritium dovetail front sight
WC steel fluted guide rod
WC G-10 grips with WC logo medallion
Special serial number range with WC prefix
Ships with 3 sand resistant 15 round magazines
IDPA Stock Service Pistol approved
Initial run of 1,000 pistols
Available exclusively from Wilson Combat or Wilson Premier distributors,
MSRP $1195.00. In stock for immediate delivery
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-beretta-brigadier-tactical.asp
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/BTinstock_zpsaed757e0.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/BTinstock_zpsaed757e0.jpg.html)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/brigtac_zps0f4a765d.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/brigtac_zps0f4a765d.jpg.html)
JBecker 72
11-03-14, 18:35
I didn't realize only 1000 at first. They should go quickly.
Regarding the "match grade barrel." Is this a factory barrel that has been re-crowned or something else?
Looks like we came pretty close to figuring out what he would be. Thank you GJM for posting what you could when you did.
Video up already. Ol' Ayoob doesn't really tell us anything we don't know, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0c6B-qIVKw
MountainRaven
11-03-14, 18:59
Hrk.
Pretty much my personal perfect Beretta. So... I want. Hope there are still some left by the time I scrape together enough money to acquire one....
ramairthree
11-03-14, 19:36
Great gun.
But ,
since there are already 92Gs, Brigs, SDs, etc. does it meet criteria to shoot as USPSA production or not?
Very nice looking gun. Hopefully one of many runs of the gun to come. Maybe Beretta has come to its senses and will be listening to the consumers some more.
plouffedaddy
11-03-14, 19:52
Wow. I'm impressed and going to have to see what kind of strings I need to pull here......
That should sell out pretty fast.
Great gun.
But ,
since there are already 92Gs, Brigs, SDs, etc. does it meet criteria to shoot as USPSA production or not?
I am going to take a guess and say it is not Production legal. The frame features seem unique, sort of M9A1 with rounded trigger guard and support trigger finger relief a'la 92A1. I highly doubt any of that offers any competitive advantage over the Elite II, but rules be rules.
None of that is preventing me from getting one. This is nearly an ideal full size variant for me, and all 92G-SDs that sold lately went for 1500-1600.
That should sell out pretty fast.
GJM and I have been debating this. I am sure WC knows more than anyone else about selling high end pistols, but I've been skeptical. I hope I am wrong.
My understanding is that now that the product has been released, someone known to USPSA and very familiar with the Beretta product line is approaching USPSA to sort this out.
I just emailed WC but they are of course closed right now. I don't see a way to add it to a shopping cart. Are these phone orders only?
I just emailed WC but they are of course closed right now. I don't see a way to add it to a shopping cart. Are these phone orders only?
M4 got an early announcement by permission from Bill Wilson. Online ordering goes live Tuesday on the WC website, after the official announcement by WC and BUSA.
So, does anyone have a list of places that have these in stock? WC obviously have some but I'm not sure how to order; do I have to teleport back to 1997 and pick up the phone to order?
I'm guessing we won't really see these dip at all below MSRP.
***EDIT: Just saw GJM's post.
M4 got an early announcement by permission from Bill Wilson. Online ordering goes live Tuesday on the WC website, after the official announcement by WC and BUSA.
Excellent - thanks!!
My Glock 17 runs just like that or better for half the price.
This thread has nothing to do with what your Glock does at what price.
Grant at GandRTactical said he has them coming to sell also.
Wilson offers 10% off for Miitary/LEOs btw
M4 got an early announcement by permission from Bill Wilson. Online ordering goes live Tuesday on the WC website, after the official announcement by WC and BUSA.
GJM -- appreciate the info all along. It's been nice to have something of an inside line. Great looking pistol. Curious to hear from those in the know (or those who want to speculate) why the choice of Brigadier slide over a Vertec slide. I am not a Beretta guru by any means, but thought the conventional wisdom had settled on the Vertec slide as optimal in 9mm.
Exiledviking
11-03-14, 22:15
GJM -- appreciate the info all along. It's been nice to have something of an inside line. Great looking pistol. Curious to hear from those in the know (or those who want to speculate) why the choice of Brigadier slide over a Vertec slide. I am not a Beretta guru by any means, but thought the conventional wisdom had settled on the Vertec slide as optimal in 9mm.
I'll second both. Thanks GJM!
Curious about the Vertec slide versus the Brigadier slide too.
I've no clue. I wonder if following the lineage of 92G-SD was felt to be important, if anything, for the commercial success reasons.
Practically, I personally can't appreciate the difference in cycling between my Elite and Vertec. I am sure someone better than me can though.
I want one of these like fat kids want candy! I think I can sell a kidney! What a sexy gun!
Its a cool pistol, i just dont really understand where these fit in the grand scheme of CCW pistols, competition pistols and collecting. I kind of see these being attractive to collectors but some of you guys are pretty hard core in your desire to carry heavy, thick, full sized guns.
I really wish they would just dovetail the damned M9A1's front sight....
GJM -- appreciate the info all along. It's been nice to have something of an inside line. Great looking pistol. Curious to hear from those in the know (or those who want to speculate) why the choice of Brigadier slide over a Vertec slide. I am not a Beretta guru by any means, but thought the conventional wisdom had settled on the Vertec slide as optimal in 9mm.
I'll second both. Thanks GJM!
Curious about the Vertec slide versus the Brigadier slide too.
I've no clue. I wonder if following the lineage of 92G-SD was felt to be important, if anything, for the commercial success reasons.
Practically, I personally can't appreciate the difference in cycling between my Elite and Vertec. I am sure someone better than me can though.
Here is the back story. I have followed Bill Wilson's project since spring and it is great to finally see it go from concept to reality. Bill was adamant to not publicly announce it, until pistols were in stock and ready to ship. A refreshing change from the "announce it this year, ship it the following year" that we sometimes see in this industry.
With permission, I was putting out clues, but then Beretta USA started getting bombarded with calls, and I got word to stop. I was blown away how quickly folks here made a composite of the photos and made very informed speculation as to what was coming. At one point, the cat got out of the bag as to Wilson Combat's involvement and the mods helped reel that back in. Thanks to them for that. I was cleared by Bill to announce here at 6pm central, a week ago, and have been biting my tongue the last few days -- especially as November came. I was actually out mule deer hunting today, came in a few minutes early to get this out, and my broadband card crashed delaying my post 20 minutes or so.
For years, the 92G-SD has been considered the holy grail of Beretta 92 pistols, and for that reason I believe Bill picked this variant for his initial collaboration with Beretta USA. I am very optimistic that if this goes well for Wilson Combat and Beretta USA, many more good things will come in the future for 92 lovers.
I was blown away how quickly folks here made a composite of the photos and made very informed speculation as to what was coming.
:cool:
Exiledviking
11-03-14, 22:51
Thank you, sir! Regardless of whether some people will buy this one I for one am thrilled to see something new out of Beretta. Looks there's more to come and having a high-end custom shop like WC to turn to for Beretta pistols is awesome. I believe that this will sell more Beretta pistols even if it's not this particular gun.
Any plans for a non railed version?
Thank you, sir! Regardless of whether some people will buy this one I for one am thrilled to see something new out of Beretta. Looks there's more to come and having a high-end custom shop like WC to turn to for Beretta pistols is awesome. I believe that this will sell more Beretta pistols even if it's not this particular gun.
Here's my take on this: if this run is a bust for WC, we'll return to a previously announced boredom of various A1s.
QuickStrike
11-04-14, 00:35
Wow I'm so glad I didn't impulse buy anything recently...
Would this be eligible for National Match Competition? That also begs the question of can it be converted to 38 super?
JBecker 72
11-04-14, 06:38
My Glock 17 runs just like that or better for half the price. Don't get caught up in the marketing hype.
Cool story bro.
Would this be eligible for National Match Competition? That also begs the question of can it be converted to 38 super?
Not .38 Super Auto but I think the Italians run 92's in 9x21 due to their national gun laws.
pedropcola
11-04-14, 08:48
I have an Elite II and a 92G-SD. the G-SD is just about the perfect 92. This will be a nice shooter.
kihnspiracy
11-04-14, 08:55
I still don't see a way to add one to your shopping cart on the Wilson website. Do we have to call them to buy one?
I was informed that it is not a limited edition series. They are building it in 1000 lots.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-04-14, 09:22
Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical pistol
Brigadier configuration with heavy duty slide
G configuration ambidextrous decocker only
4.7” Stainless match grade barrel with recessed target crown
Extra tight fitting tolerances for improved accuracy
All steel components (decocker, trigger, magazine release, guide rod)
Oversize magazine release with checkered pad
Checkered frontstrap and backstrap
Beveled magazine well
Rounded trigger guard
Rail for mounting light or laser
Elite skeletonized hammer
D hammer spring
WC rear Battlesight and tritium dovetail front sight
WC steel fluted guide rod
WC G-10 grips with WC logo medallion
Special serial number range with WC prefix
Ships with 3 sand resistant 15 round magazines
IDPA Stock Service Pistol approved
Initial run of 1,000 pistols
Available exclusively from Wilson Combat or Wilson Premier distributors,
MSRP $1195.00. In stock for immediate delivery
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-beretta-brigadier-tactical.asp
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/BTinstock_zpsaed757e0.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/BTinstock_zpsaed757e0.jpg.html)
Bah. Barrel's already flush cut. Looks like I'll be waiting to see what other collaborations they put together with Beretta.
I still don't see a way to add one to your shopping cart on the Wilson website. Do we have to call them to buy one?
You have to call them as of now to order.
QuickStrike
11-04-14, 10:05
Bah. Barrel's already flush cut. Looks like I'll be waiting to see what other collaborations they put together with Beretta.
Doesn't look flush with the slide in the pictures???
montanadave
11-04-14, 10:07
You have to call them as of now to order.
Actually, it just went up on their website (under "In Stock Firearms").
Doesn't look flush with the slide in the pictures???
Well, more flush than standard since it's the 4.7 barrel.
I assume he wants the option to have the barrel threaded for a suppressor.
JBecker 72
11-04-14, 10:31
I actually prefer the look of the 4.9" barrel to the shorter style.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-04-14, 11:01
Well, more flush than standard since it's the 4.7 barrel.
I assume he wants the option to have the barrel threaded for a suppressor.
This.
And I'm not even sure the viability of a drop-in barrel with how tight the tolerances are on this. Might need to be handfit. Either way, I might as well just buy a 92G and have the work done I want on it at Wilson and Tornado Tech. Should end up similar in price to this, just slightly less accurate and a lot less collectible.
Still probably the best 92 ever made for most users. Here's hoping Wilson develops a 92 lineup like they have with 1911s.
My Glock 17 runs just like that or better for half the price.
Who cares! Your Glock is boat anchor compared to this gun!
C4
Gotta order one of these. Everything I wish my Elite II was...
Just ordered mine by phone, will ship today. He said they are flying off the shelf. I asked about getting the Militay/LEO discount but was told it doesn't apply to these. They are also not taking orders for options for further gun smithing. If you want something else done you have to order it then send it back in. $1225 shipped.
BTW…BerettaUSA just posted on Facebook they are introducing an INOX Brigadier 92FS too.
Meh, gun ordered.
Assuming I'm overcome with buyer's remorse, I won't be out of much if I decide to sell it I suppose.
Mine are on their way to us. For me, it represents the best 92FS made + WC upgrades. For those of you that do not collect 92's, the 92G-SD is VERY hard to locate and typically run in the $1500 range. So this represents a good value and a unique (read collectable) gun.
C4
Ordered. On hold with them as we speak cause I pulled a bonehead and used my home as shipping address. Got mine confirmed though! Soon as I get them my local FFL I expect to shoot it by Thursday. Stoked, I am. Been wanting a G SD forever. This will do nicely.
mkmckinley
11-04-14, 13:22
I didn't know Grant would be selling them so just ordered one direct from WC. You know, to do my part to encourage this type of behavior. Now I need to start replenishing the slush fund in case Mr. Wilson gets interested in Hi-Powers or P228s.
Just got the email from Wilson announcing these. In it it states only two custom upgrades area available at this time...action tune and mag guide. I was told there are none. Would have liked to get the action tune. Mine ships today.
I called and got ahold of John T., didn't wait anytime to place order. Went through no problems. Had to run downtown to get a FFL to email him and he's since confirmed it was received.
Website showing out of stock.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Beretta-_-Wilson-Combat-92G-Brigadier-Tactical-9mm/productinfo/BER-92BRIG-9/
montanadave
11-04-14, 14:01
Website showing out of stock.
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Beretta-_-Wilson-Combat-92G-Brigadier-Tactical-9mm/productinfo/BER-92BRIG-9/
Thank God. I put one in the cart first thing this morning, then convinced myself I had no need to buy another pistol, and was beginning to feel my will power start to fade. Now I can relax, what for the reviews on this first run, and perhaps jump in on the next go-around.
Who cares! Your Glock is boat anchor compared to this gun!
C4
I will add that to my signature line. Epic sir, epic.
My Glock 17 runs just like that or better for half the price.
There's more to life than bein' a cheapskate. And while a Glock 17 may be as reliable as 92, they're not as consistent. And that's a fact.
Thank God. I put one in the cart first thing this morning, then convinced myself I had no need to buy another pistol, and was beginning to feel my will power start to fade. Now I can relax, what for the reviews on this first run, and perhaps jump in on the next go-around.
It appears they are back in stock.
Its impossible to get through on the phone. I bet they are swamped. I ordered online.
John123
JBecker 72
11-04-14, 16:10
Its impossible to get through on the phone. I bet they are swamped. I ordered online.
John123
When I needed to make a change in my order to my 92A1 a month ago I sat on hold for a half hour before I got to speak with a customer service rep. It seems they are constantly swamped.
10mmSpringfield
11-04-14, 16:22
When I needed to make a change in my order to my 92A1 a month ago I sat on hold for a half hour before I got to speak with a customer service rep. It seems they are constantly swamped.
The only quick way to get a response is to email them and be an existing customer.
Well, I contacted my FFL, made my order with WC online, cost of gun and shipping was charged to my account, all seemed well. All of this was around noon. Then I get a call from "Brittany" about an hour ago saying there was an "issue processing my card."
Hmm. Called back, no answer. Shot them an email asking what was the deal. Hope I didn't lose my spot, but maybe a higher power is trying to tell me something, haha.
I like it, but I struggle if I like it enough to that price point.
I talked to the guys at Wilson via phone about 3 hours ago from the time of this post. They are out of stock of the first run of pistols and are taking all orders as of that time as back orders, so that means to me that they plan on doing more.
Originally Posted by LoveAR View Post
My Glock 17 runs just like that or better for half the price. Don't get caught up in the marketing hype.
Cool story bro.
Who cares! Your Glock is boat anchor compared to this gun!
You are correct. My bad. I apologize.
teutonicpolymer
11-04-14, 19:58
I know there are guns that will shoot as good or better for half the price (G34 and VP9 come to mind) but I still want this... Hopefully there are distributors that will knock some money off of the msrp.
Also, I am wondering how much work on these does Wilson Combat do (a great setup regardless, and is how all the Beretta 92's should have been in my opinion). Many of the features look like they are just from the Beretta factory but what do I know.
MountainRaven
11-04-14, 20:05
Thank God. I put one in the cart first thing this morning, then convinced myself I had no need to buy another pistol, and was beginning to feel my will power start to fade. Now I can relax, what for the reviews on this first run, and perhaps jump in on the next go-around.
If you buy one and decide you don't like it, I'd be happy to take it off your hands.
:cool:
I know there are guns that will shoot as good or better for half the price (G34 and VP9 come to mind) but I still want this... Hopefully there are distributors that will knock some money off of the msrp.
Also, I am wondering how much work on these does Wilson Combat do (a great setup regardless, and is how all the Beretta 92's should have been in my opinion). Many of the features look like they are just from the Beretta factory but what do I know.
The steel components are not all factory. The trigger may come from the factory (WC makes their own but I can't tell by the pictures) but is not standard. The guiderod and mag release are definitely not factory. Nor are the grips, sights, bevel job, tuning, or checkering.
teutonicpolymer
11-04-14, 21:02
The steel components are not all factory. The trigger may come from the factory (WC makes their own but I can't tell by the pictures) but is not standard. The guiderod and mag release are definitely not factory. Nor are the grips, sights, bevel job, tuning, or checkering.
Ah so these are the Wilson steel components and not the Beretta steel parts they sell separately. The checkering I am slightly surprised by because Beretta has done checkering for 92s. For slightly more clarification, are these tuned or fitted at Wilson Combat?
The steel components are not all factory. The trigger may come from the factory (WC makes their own but I can't tell by the pictures) but is not standard. The guiderod and mag release are definitely not factory. Nor are the grips, sights, bevel job, tuning, or checkering.
There are obviously WC parts on this model, but I believe the bevel job and checkering are done by Beretta. Both exist on the M9, and on another forum, there is a list of specifications for this model that appears to be what WC was asking Beretta to do, and the checkering is one of them. Also, I haven't seen anything about tuning of this gun by WC, and the "action tune" is the only mod available for it (other than the mag guide).
I know there are guns that will shoot as good or better for half the price (G34 and VP9 come to mind) but I still want this...
Define better. My Elite II that has the same lock work and similar barrel is a 1.6" gun that has no gun attributable malfunctions for 8K rounds and has 8 lbs DA/ 3.5 lbs SA trigger, all with minimal recoil and flip.
Seems like between the talks of collectable value and feature set many forgot that these guns are incredible shooters. Competition legality of this particular model non withstanding, a bunch of people made GMs with a similar gun, and someone won Nationals. A couple of times.
Mine are on their way to us. For me, it represents the best 92FS made + WC upgrades. For those of you that do not collect 92's, the 92G-SD is VERY hard to locate and typically run in the $1500 range. So this represents a good value and a unique (read collectable) gun.
one to shoot, one to store? Assume you mean you bought more than one.
I talked to the guys at Wilson via phone about 3 hours ago from the time of this post. They are out of stock of the first run of pistols and are taking all orders as of that time as back orders, so that means to me that they plan on doing more.
I hope I got in on the first run of pistols. The website says "in stock" nothing about a back order.
MountainRaven
11-04-14, 22:33
one to shoot, one to store? Assume you mean you bought more than one.
I was hoping that he bought some for his store... although I probably still won't have the money to buy one before his stock all gets swept up.
WC is not beveling or checkering the pistols... These come from BUSA like this...
WC, correct us if we are wrong.
QuickStrike
11-04-14, 23:27
Define better. My Elite II that has the same lock work and similar barrel is a 1.6" gun that has no gun attributable malfunctions for 8K rounds and has 8 lbs DA/ 3.5 lbs SA trigger, all with minimal recoil and flip.
Seems like between the talks of collectable value and feature set many forgot that these guns are incredible shooters. Competition legality of this particular model non withstanding, a bunch of people made GMs with a similar gun, and someone won Nationals. A couple of times.
Glad to know. This gun has everything I want in a full sized beretta pistol. An improved G-SD new, that's cheaper than the similar models used? Hell yeah!
Already thinking of buying a 92G later to use as a beater... Hehe
NCPatrolAR
11-05-14, 00:10
I'm a huge Beretta fan and this looks like a great pistol. I would prefer a version with a Centurion slide though
ramairthree
11-05-14, 08:28
Looking forward to getting it.
On the Beretta forum BW has announced the mil/le discount DOES apply.
I emailed with my order number to let them know.
I did my order online when it showed back in stock. Hope I am not on the December/back order list and get it sooner. Looks like getting 250 at a time a month apart for the 1000.
A member there that had handled a lot of Elites and SDs states the fit and finish is above and beyond on his he just got in comparison.
I have been issued/shooting and owning M9s / 92s since the 80s.
I have been shooting/owning Glock 9mms for over twenty years as well.
The typical Beretta/Brig/G/Elite is like getting a manual transmission Dodge Challenger RT, 6.1 SRT, 6.4 SRT and I consider this new gun like getting a manual transmission Hellcat Challenger.
My Glocks are like getting an automatic transmission Mustang GT or new 5.0 GT.
I have not seen the Glock factory version of a Shelby (Hellcat).
Liking/owning/shooting both is not mutually exclusive to me.
I like that my Challenger RT rides nicer, has a huge trunk, more low end torque, is roomier, more comfortable and does a 13.2 quarter mile. I wish it weighed less and handled a little better.
I like that my Mustang 5.0 handles nicer, has more high end HP, and does a 13.0 quarter mile. I wish it had a bigger gas tank and rode a little nicer and was not uncomfortable.
I have similar Beretta/Glock preferences.
I got the .mil discount when I called and ordered yesterday at 1430 hrs. I paid $1075.50 + $31 shipping. I was reluctant to post this in public yesterday when people were describing a contrary experience.
This is what Bill Wilson posted on the berettaforum:
We shut down mid week last week and moved into our new 27,000sq ft office/warehouse Wed. - Sat.. We were back up and running Mon am and then a pallet of Beretta pistols showed up. Our crew did an amazing job of shipping a lot of product on Mon and Tue along with a large # of Brig Tac pistols. We have however had several issues with our new a complex PH system and are working hard to resolve these issues.
Here is the straight scoop:
We have received 198 of the initial shipment of 250 pistols and expect the remaining 52 to arrive in the next week or so. The complete order with BUSA is for 1000 pistols to be delivered as follows:
250 Oct/Nov 2014
250 Dec 2014
250 Jan 2015
250 Mar 2015
Most of the initial 198 pistols have already been sold.
If they continue to sell though well we may order more, but delivery would probably be in the 3rd quarter of 2015 due to military M9 orders in process and the pending move of BUSA to TN.
These pistols are built to my specifications which include a tight slide to frame fit and tight barrel lock up with a match grade Elite II style stainless barrel. As customers take delivery of these pistols it will become evident that they are the best M92 pistols produced to date. Actions are also pretty darn good for an out of the box production pistol. Accuracy has proven to be very good. All in all I'm personally VERY happy with how they turned out and think BUSA did a great job on them.
The following up grades are available prior to shipment: Action work and installation of our new magazine guide, however this will delay shipment 5 weeks or so due to our backlog of Beretta work.
Apparently there has been some confusion on the availability of LE/Mil discount, yes this discount is applicable to these pistols.
Please be patient with us as we work through this move and new product introduction.
Bill Wilson
What the heck is a Magazine guide? Did they come out with a magwell for the 92? I havent seen any info or pics on this.
What the heck is a Magazine guide? Did they come out with a magwell for the 92? I havent seen any info or pics on this.
Not quite. (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Mag-Guide-Beretta-92_96/productinfo/676/?utm_source=Wilson+Combat+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7c7e4de2ed-Beretta92G11042014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7e19171a14-7c7e4de2ed-310253117&mc_cid=7c7e4de2ed&mc_eid=e723402175)
Not quite. (http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Mag-Guide-Beretta-92_96/productinfo/676/?utm_source=Wilson+Combat+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7c7e4de2ed-Beretta92G11042014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7e19171a14-7c7e4de2ed-310253117&mc_cid=7c7e4de2ed&mc_eid=e723402175)
Thanks for the link.
I dont get it but someone out there that likes to slam their mags into the back of the magwell to index them may like this. Always nice to see new parts and accessories for a line of pistols.
looks like its sold out again.
What the heck is a Magazine guide? Did they come out with a magwell for the 92? I havent seen any info or pics on this.
Looks like it replaces the stock hammer spring cap. Kinda similar to those butt plug guide the glock people use.
looks like its sold out again.
Look at my post of Bill Wilson's comments. They get them in batches. Read his comments and you will understand how it works.
Looks like it replaces the stock hammer spring cap. Kinda similar to those butt plug guide the glock people use.
Except there's no gaping, angular hole in the back of the beretta that interferes with the box magazine being inserted. :)
Alright, I FINALLY got through to a human being at WC today after getting a call yesterday about there being a problem with the card used for my order.
Apparently, they're having some kind of issue with their ordering system that's causing a number of problems, double charges for some folks, getting locked out, etc. so I guess I'm not the only person that ran into an issue with this.
Supposed to get a call back later on today if/when everything is fixed for my transaction. The lady on the phone said the gun I ordered is still "mine" while all of this is pending, so we'll see.
More bad news for my wallet...:(
ramairthree
11-05-14, 14:54
What the heck is a Magazine guide? Did they come out with a magwell for the 92? I havent seen any info or pics on this.
No, it is some bump that looks like it replaces the lanyard loop hammer spring cap.
I DO have one of the old EGW mag guides,
but cannot find one of the threaded flat hammer spring caps to screw it on. I may have to drill and thread one on my own.
WC is not beveling or checkering the pistols... These come from BUSA like this...
WC, correct us if we are wrong.
I hope its nicer than what's on an M9A1. Compared to my 96 Stock Competition and Billennium frames, the M9A1 frame left me wanting a custom job (which is of course hard to do once the cross-hatch is already there).
ramairthree
11-05-14, 16:17
The good news is my order went through and the discount was applied.
The bad news is, it will ship with the next batch.
Between the original no mil discount applies wrong information,
flat out saying they won't check for a serial number/reserve a SN,
the month of super hype building and then only getting in less than a quarter of the run and my now being back ordered when it said in stock when I ordered,
I am kind of under whelmed with the Wilson Combat experience.
Not busting on the gun and for sure respect them getting a fire under Beretta's ass to bring back G's and Brigs,
but I was expecting a different customer experience. Sort of like how you get treated bringing the Acura in to the Acura place and not the Honda place or having a meal at Ruth's Chris vs Outback. Not the case.
This experience was actually less organized and straight forward than a typical GrabaGun or Bud's order. The customer service was timely and polite an all, I just had different expectations.
Do yall think its twice the gun as a 92-A1? I guess I am stuck wishing beretta made a 92-a1G.
"The bad news is, it will ship with the next batch."
Did they tell you whether "next batch" meant the remainder of the first 250 (as referenced in Bill Wilson's email) or if it meant the next 250 that are due in December? Curious if they have you an ETA. Thanks.
ramairthree
11-05-14, 18:25
I do not have an ETA,
just confirmation that discount was applied, they have my FFL, and it will "ship with the next batch".
MountainRaven
11-05-14, 21:35
The good news is my order went through and the discount was applied.
The bad news is, it will ship with the next batch.
Between the original no mil discount applies wrong information,
flat out saying they won't check for a serial number/reserve a SN,
the month of super hype building and then only getting in less than a quarter of the run and my now being back ordered when it said in stock when I ordered,
I am kind of under whelmed with the Wilson Combat experience.
Not busting on the gun and for sure respect them getting a fire under Beretta's ass to bring back G's and Brigs,
but I was expecting a different customer experience. Sort of like how you get treated bringing the Acura in to the Acura place and not the Honda place or having a meal at Ruth's Chris vs Outback. Not the case.
This experience was actually less organized and straight forward than a typical GrabaGun or Bud's order. The customer service was timely and polite an all, I just had different expectations.
I'm beginning to feel like Beretta couldn't market free sex... and neither could Wilson market it for them.
:blink:
10mmSpringfield
11-05-14, 22:03
Do yall think its twice the gun as a 92-A1? I guess I am stuck wishing beretta made a 92-a1G.
Most of the stuff is purely cosmetic, and why the price is so bloated.
The trigger job and short trigger are sweet, tho, and I thought about sending my M9 for just that.
But in the end it's still just a Beretta, down to the crap 1 year warranty.
Who cares! Your Glock is boat anchor compared to this gun!
Get the Berretta. See above.
Do yall think its twice the gun as a 92-A1? I guess I am stuck wishing beretta made a 92-a1G.
Depends how much added value you put into beveled magwell, checkered frame, Elite hammer, better mag release, trit front sight and G setup. I am not counting rear WC sight, fluted rod and VZ grips, to me they don't make much difference. Three sand resistant mags that come with a WC gun are 100 bucks value. To make 92A1 into a WC like gun you will spend more than 500 bucks differential. Whether you need any of that is your call.
ramairthree
11-06-14, 00:20
Most of the stuff is purely cosmetic, and why the price is so bloated.
The trigger job and short trigger are sweet, tho, and I thought about sending my M9 for just that.
But in the end it's still just a Beretta, down to the crap 1 year warranty.
The price reflects bringing back an out of production upper with new tolerances and an all new frame also with new tolerances.
10mmSpringfield
11-06-14, 00:40
The price reflects bringing back an out of production upper with new tolerances and an all new frame also with new tolerances.
I don't remember the Brig being that popular before it was discontinued, or all the enthusiasm about the slide being 1 full ounce heavier.
I think Wilson is being a bit optimistic applying their 1911 trickery to a gun that was never meant to be custom or fitted.
Most of the stuff is purely cosmetic, and why the price is so bloated.
The trigger job and short trigger are sweet, tho, and I thought about sending my M9 for just that.
But in the end it's still just a Beretta, down to the crap 1 year warranty.
I disagree. the combination of a D spring and Elite hammer is an excellent 8-9lb DA trigger pull. Granted, this modification can be done by anyone. However, the Brigadier slide gives the 92G-SD one of the softest recoil impulses of any service 9mm caliber handgun. The G decocker conversion is also a very practical and functional improvement. Finally, I challenge you to find any faster or better sights for this gun.
Bottom line, I paid $1100 with my military discount which is what I'd pay for a Sig P226 with SRT, night sights, grips etc. it's also similar to what I put into my HK P30 that has been sent to Bruce Gray for a trigger job, night sights, etc. It is also $300-500 less than the going rate for a like-new stock 92G SD on Gunbroker, and the Wilson verson is basically an enhanced 92G SD.
I know there are guns that will shoot as good or better for half the price (G34 and VP9 come to mind) but I still want this... Hopefully there are distributors that will knock some money off of the msrp.
There are no distributors for these guns. If anything, the price will rise on these as they are sold out and then end up on GB as "collectable."
C4
Most of the stuff is purely cosmetic, and why the price is so bloated.
The trigger job and short trigger are sweet, tho, and I thought about sending my M9 for just that.
But in the end it's still just a Beretta, down to the crap 1 year warranty.
Cosmetic, but a configuration that you cannot buy as new any more (92G-SD). That gun commands $1500 USED on the open market. I went an entire year once looking for one of these. They are rare as hens teeth as no one wants to part with them.
So think of this gun as your chance to buy THAT gun (for new) with lots of upgrades that the 92G-SD never had. If you think it won't be popular, think again.
C4
teutonicpolymer
11-06-14, 07:59
There are no distributors for these guns. If anything, the price will rise on these as they are sold out and then end up on GB as "collectable."
C4
I was under the impression that there would be some distribution since the WC site says something along the lines of WC premier dealers only.
I was under the impression that there would be some distribution since the WC site says something along the lines of WC premier dealers only.
Yes premier dealers. We are one. That doesn't mean lowered pricing and internet sales though.
C4
RAM Engineer
11-06-14, 08:24
Anyone know if this has the Wolff trigger return unit installed?
The gun...does...NOT..have...a Trigger...job...
Jeeze people. Read the product descriptions...
There are way too many people posting info on forums (this and others) that the pistol is coming complete with trigger work. The gun has a D spring and an EII hammer, that is all.
The gun...does...NOT..have...a Trigger...job...
Jeeze people. Read the product descriptions...
There are way too many people posting info on forums (this and others) that the pistol is coming complete with trigger work. The gun has a D spring and an EII hammer, that is all.
Correct. Trigger jobs are another $110 and takes about 4-5 weeks. We had them keep 4 of the guns we ordered for trigger work.
C4
I don't remember the Brig being that popular before it was discontinued, or all the enthusiasm about the slide being 1 full ounce heavier.
According to Wilson, Brig Tac slide weighs 12.7 oz and is less than .5 oz heavier than 92A1's.
According to my measures, Elite II is 0.6 oz heavier than Vertec, slides that is.
As a comparison, the CZ SP01, the rage of USPSA, is 12.6 with shorter sight radius. A boat anchor Glock 17 has a 13.1 oz slide, again with shorter radius. So, even fat Beretta slides compare favorably with others. The 92FS slide is even lighter at 11.3 but doesn't belong to this conversation because sights.
G Vertec has the best Beretta slide, in my opinion.
The gun...does...NOT..have...a Trigger...job...
Jeeze people. Read the product descriptions...
There are way too many people posting info on forums (this and others) that the pistol is coming complete with trigger work. The gun has a D spring and an EII hammer, that is all.
That's really about all it needs. Beretta 92s have exceptional triggers out of the box...
I'm really glad to see this happening, its about time the 92 sees a resurgence. While I'm primarily a 1911 guy, I do own and enjoy Beretta 92's as well, from a well preserved 92S to an Elite II. Beretta has allowed the 92's to languish for too long, hopefully with the help of Wilson Combat, we might even see a rerun of the 92 Stock or one of the Vertec variants, maybe even another Steel...
What would one of these be expected do on paper for 10 rounds at 25 yards?
Will Fennell
11-06-14, 19:15
Here are some 50 yard results Bill posted on the Beretta Forum.....
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=111434
....not too shabby!
QuickStrike
11-06-14, 19:26
Just picked it up. No play whatsoever between the slode/frame/barrel. Reminds me of my springfield PRO 1911, but easier to rack.
Sweet!
MountainRaven
11-06-14, 19:36
Yes premier dealers. We are one. That doesn't mean lowered pricing and internet sales though.
C4
Does no internet sales mean no email sales?
Does no internet sales mean no email sales?
I picked one up by emailing a Wilson dealer who had ordered some the morning they came out.
The good news is my order went through and the discount was applied.
The bad news is, it will ship with the next batch.
Between the original no mil discount applies wrong information,
flat out saying they won't check for a serial number/reserve a SN,
the month of super hype building and then only getting in less than a quarter of the run and my now being back ordered when it said in stock when I ordered,
I am kind of under whelmed with the Wilson Combat experience.
Not busting on the gun and for sure respect them getting a fire under Beretta's ass to bring back G's and Brigs,
but I was expecting a different customer experience. Sort of like how you get treated bringing the Acura in to the Acura place and not the Honda place or having a meal at Ruth's Chris vs Outback. Not the case.
This experience was actually less organized and straight forward than a typical GrabaGun or Bud's order. The customer service was timely and polite an all, I just had different expectations.
I've sorry for the issues, we were shut down Oct 29-30 moving into our new facility with a completely new and complex PH system that had "issues" for a few days. We were just trying to get back into operation on Mon Nov 3rd and figure out what we were doing when a pallet of Beretta's showed up! Somewhat chaos.............. It was about Thur before things settled down and we started running back to some semblance of normal. Thank you for your patience
Thank you for dropping in Mr. Wilson and thank you for lighting a fire under Beretta to get this project to reality.
I've sorry for the issues, we were shut down Oct 29-30 moving into our new facility with a completely new and complex PH system that had "issues" for a few days. We were just trying to get back into operation on Mon Nov 3rd and figure out what we were doing when a pallet of Beretta's showed up! Somewhat chaos.............. It was about Thur before things settled down and we started running back to some semblance of normal. Thank you for your patience
No Sir, thank you. Those of us with a soft spot in our heart for the M9/92FS appreciate a custom manufacturer breathing some life into the brand.
ramairthree
11-07-14, 11:54
It has been great discussing Berettas without all the extra noise from people wanting street cred and trying to sound like cool kids busting on them!
"My cousin was on the first tank in the first wave of desert storm and his jammed on him and he almost died they are crap"
"My buddy the "fill in the blank" says they are worthless, that's why he uses a "fill in the blank".
The slides fall off.
The slides crack.
they are unreliable.
they are not accurate,
etc.
etc.
It has been great discussing Berettas without all the extra noise from people wanting street cred and trying to sound like cool kids busting on them!
"My cousin was on the first tank in the first wave of desert storm and his jammed on him and he almost died they are crap"
"My buddy the "fill in the blank" says they are worthless, that's why he uses a "fill in the blank".
The slides fall off.
The slides crack.
they are unreliable.
they are not accurate,
etc.
etc.
They are obviously unreliable..........
We had Ernest Langdon at the ranch for a 2 day class last May
16 shooters all shooting some form of B92/M9, two of us switched guns from Sat to Sun, so 18 pistols used
We shot over 30k rounds, most were various kinds of factory ball, but a few of us shot handloads
NO malfunctions, NO breakages
I've been involved in a lot of training classes over the years, both teaching and attending and have NEVER seen a class without a single malfunction before (usually several), Ernest said the same.
But those "extra noise" guys ramairthee refers to must know more than I do ............... :)
TTAG did a good piece (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/beretta-m9-gets-respect/) on why the M9 gets no respect (hint; used/abused and no training)
IZinterrogator
11-07-14, 21:29
They are obviously unreliable..........
We had Ernest Langdon at the ranch for a 2 day class last May
16 shooters all shooting some form of B92/M9, two of us switched guns from Sat to Sun, so 18 pistols used
We shot over 30k rounds, most were various kinds of factory ball, but a few of us shot handloads
NO malfunctions, NO breakages
I've been involved in a lot of training classes over the years, both teaching and attending and have NEVER seen a class without a single malfunction before (usually several), Ernest said the same.
But those "extra noise" guys ramairthee refers to must know more than I do ............... :)
I have competed with a Beretta M9, I have carried one on three deployments (four if you count my chief leaving his with me while he spent hours in the gym daily in Bosnia), and I have qualified on it regularly for the last eleven years. Never had a jam, not even on the issue pistols, because I lube it properly and use factory magazines.
Coal Dragger
11-07-14, 22:28
Maybe I should give one of these pistols a home if BUSA continues to produce them. I don't have a 9mm pistol and adding one would be a good idea.
I, like many other former service members, have a less than positive view of the M9 but to be fair those tired old pistols issued to our Marine Corps infantry battalion were badly abused. We got brand new rifles and kept the old M9's we already had. I still managed to qualify as an expert on the one example I ever qualified with. Then I sometimes carried our Doc's M9 when I got the glorious duty of driving a damned hmmv on a patrol. Maybe it's time to see what one is like that hasn't had the shit beat out of it for 20 years.
We have been informed by customers and also found a few pistols sold locally with the wrong hammer spring and/or spring plug. Apparently some of the guns got assembled with the standard full power hammer spring and a few with plastic spring plugs. We are working with BUSA to sort out the issue and should have some replacement parts on the way to us shortly that we can send out (obviously N/C) next week.
Wilson Combat will start taking each gun out and checking them over prior to shipment in the future.
Very sorry for the inconvenience
RAM Engineer
11-08-14, 08:26
No way to order one on the weekend, right? Phones only M-W?
plouffedaddy
11-08-14, 08:27
We have been informed by customers and also found a few pistols sold locally with the wrong hammer spring and/or spring plug. Apparently some of the guns got assembled with the standard full power hammer spring and a few with plastic spring plugs. We are working with BUSA to sort out the issue and should have some replacement parts on the way to us shortly that we can send out (obviously N/C) next week.
Wilson Combat will start taking each gun out and checking them over prior to shipment in the future.
Very sorry for the inconvenience
Thanks for the update, Bill.
Mr. Wilson,
I picked mine up today and as has been reported, there's no way thats a D spring in there. I have some spare D springs I think and will replace it till the replacement comes in. Not sure on the lanyard loop, will have to check when I get home from work. I'm not in the least upset, I know you guys will make it right, mistakes happen as we are human. Thanks again for making such a beautiful pistol. Can't wait to see how it shoots.
I ordered one from Wilson combat on Friday night. They were marked as backordered but I put in my CC number and emailed my FFL so we'll see how long it takes. Here's hoping they have a bucket of the D springs lying around.
This was posted by Bill Wilson on the BerettaForum about why he did the Brigadier Tactical.....
I feel I'm mostly among friends here, so I'm going to be "candid" here
First off I didn't have competition shooters in mind when spec'ing this pistol, primarily a optimized service pistol.
That being said I want to give some history as to the "why" of the project. As many of you know I have been a big Beretta 92 fan since back in the 80s and am a serious Beretta collector. While my first love has always been and will always be the 1911 platform, the B92 is of major interest to me. One thing I have normally been successful at is turning interests/hobbies into profit. I want things that don't exist, so it create them for myself and then figure out a way for the project to pay for what I personally get out of it. Example: I wanted custom work on my own Beretta's but I can't justify taking bench time from my pistolsmiths building 1911s since we're 1-3 years our on delivery depending on the model. So I had to make it a profitable business venture to do custom Beretta work. Same with the Brig Tac, I personally wanted a pistol Beretta didn't build and probably never would build. Only way to do this was to dive in deep enough to make a it a real and profitable business venture. I have another must have model in mind so stay tuned......
So based on what I just said it really comes down to my personal preference, I just spec'd out the pistol "I" wanted for myself, with very little though as to how it would be received by the market.......
The pistols I had in my collection that was the nearest to what I wanted were Elite IIs and 92G SDs, so I basically took what I liked best from each of these two models and then added what was missing.
I'm guess in everyone's next ? will be "why" do you like this or that. So here goes a quick rundown.
Starting with the obvious and working down to the meat and potatoes.....
All metal parts: If you want a plastic gun go buy one (hopefully a Walther PPQ M2), plastic parts have no place on a fully machined quality pistol
Checkering: You can't shoot a pistol fast unless you can keep it from moving in your hand
Beveled magazine well: While the standard M92 is a pretty easy gun to re-load, every little bit helps under stress
D Hammer spring: Why Beretta puts the god awful heavy hammer springs in their pistols I have NO idea, the DA is basically un-shootable with these 26#ish springs and totally unnecessary to ignite quality ammo. In my opinion you shouldn't be shooting the Russian crap ammo in a quality pistol, so who cares if it misfires. I've done a lot of testing on this and a 16# Wolff or factory D spring will reliable light any US mfg primer double action. If you stick with Federal or Winchester you can usually get by with a 13# spring. I have guns that are sure fire with 12# springs and Federal primers.
Removable front sight: WHY BUSA DOESN'T MAKE THIS A STANDARD FEATURE OF EVERY MODEL EXCEPT THE M9 I HAVE NO IDEA ????
G de-cocker: It's simply the way all M92s/96s should be............ Why you would want a safety on a DA/SA pistol is beyond me. This is one place though that I did make a compromise to assure the pistol would be accepted in the marketplace. I went with the std parts so it would be more readily accepted my the masses and be IDPA SSP approved. Personally I would have dropped the right side lever, as a right hander it's nothing but something to get hung on something.
Light rail: I carry a pistol EVERY day ALL day! I also put this pistol on my nightstand every night and I prefer to have a light attached to it because if I need it in the dark I want a light on it! Do I like it aesthetically, NO I'd much prefer the sleeker look of a pistol without it.
Stainless match grade barrel and tighter slide to frame fit: Accuracy good, it's one of those things you can't get too much of. Maybe everyone can't utilize the difference between the accuracy of a S&W M&P and a Brig Tac, but those of us that can really appreciate it. To address those comments about tighter tolerances reducing reliability I call BS, WC has been building some of the most reliable 1911s since the late 70s and we build them as tight as possible. Granted if you were in a hostile environment of dust, mud, sand, etc. looser might be better, but lets face it most American's don't subject their pistols to this abuse and keep them reasonably clean and lubed. I carry everyday here on my ranch in TX and my main mode of transportation is a UTV, it's gets pretty dry and dusty in the summer and my guns get awfully dirty, but I don't recall ever having a malfunction with any of the 1911s, B92s or ARs I normally have with me.
Now to the less obvious.
Tritium front sight: As I mentioned I put my pistol on the nightstand at night, a tritium sight helps me locate the pistol in the dark and there are times I might not have my light attached and it allows me to make decent hits out to 10-15yds in pretty dark conditions. As to daytime range play, yes I'd rather have a fiber optic, but it's not real deal breaker for me as I try to focus on the top of the sight blade anyway.
Brigadier slide: I shoot my pistols a lot, even now that I've completely retired from formal competition I still shoot several hundred rounds (sometimes a 1000+) every week do durability of my guns is important to me. The Brig slide is simply bullet proof, I've never heard of one failing, ever. There is a big debate as to whether a lighter or heaver slide is easier/faster to shoot. I've tried to quantify this for myself and have never been able to conclusively prove which is better. I seem to shoot a 4" 1911 or Centurion better up close (under 12yds) and a longer sight radius heavier slide better past 12yds, but the difference is so minute that it's really not worth the debate to me. In a perfect world I would have rather have a Vertec slide that was .060" wider than normal, I think this slide would also be bullet proof as to durability and more aesthetically pleasing, but I was limited to mixing and matching parts Beretta had already built at sometime.
G-10 grips: This is a VERY strong material, so the grips can be made pretty thin and still be serviceable, thinner is good on a double stack pistol. It was basically about thinning the grip, but they do look "quality" and pretty cool to.
WC rear sight: I personally did the design of this sight and feel it's as good as it's gonna get considering the limited space available on a B92 and the fact we're limited by a fixed front sight on most pistols. The U notch is a big aid in reducing horizontal sighting errors due to the fact it naturally centers the front sight like a peep sight. The sight gives a good sight picture in both shaded areas and out in bright sunlight.
WC fluted guide rod: I probably have not mentioned, but I wanted to put as many WC produced parts on the gun as possible while keeping it IDPA SSP approved, so we were pretty limited and the guide rod was an internal part we could change. Also we were not allowed to use non BUSA mfg parts that have any effect on function if we were to have BUSA warranty these pistols. I'm into quality and this is a quality part, fully machined from barstock, heat treated and Melonite coated. The fluting is probably just cosmetic, but it only costs pennies extra to do and looks cool so why not......
Elite hammer: Picked it for cosmetic look only, functionally the std hammer is better since you can usually run a pound lighter hammer spring with the same ignition.
Oversize checkered magazine release: Never had an issue with accidentally ejecting a mag with one and they are definitely an aid in fast mag changes, especially for those with small hands. Had to stick with a Beretta part due to the previously mentioned IDPA/warranty issues.
Round trigger guard: I just like it! All of my customized M92 have been modified to a round T guard. Serious shooters never put their finger on the front of the trigger guard so why have that ugly hook or half finished look of the M9A1 trigger guard. Dramatically improves the aesthetics of the pistol and gives it a "different" look from the rest of the pack.
4.7" bbl length: As above, I just like it. This is just one of those "preference" things.
I think that's pretty much it, as stated above I just built my "personal" dream gun and hopefully the project is successful enough to justify building my dream Centurion in the future
Are these going to be a limited time offering or will they have long term availability? I really want one, but I just bought a M9A1.
Anybody torn one down yet, are they retaining the mainspring cap with the solid pin or a roll pin?
Sent from my PG41200 using Tapatalk 2
Are these going to be a limited time offering or will they have long term availability? I really want one, but I just bought a M9A1.
Limited I think, but if they really catch on, who knows.
C4
Does any one have any insight as to whether there is any rhyme or reason for the spring and plug flaws as far as serial numbers affected? Mine is under #50.
Have not looked at my spring yet, but it feels heavy, but I do have a steel plug. Just wondering if the plugs and spring mistake went hand in hand?
Does any one have any insight as to whether there is any rhyme or reason for the spring and plug flaws as far as serial numbers affected? Mine is under #50.
Have not looked at my spring yet, but it feels heavy, but I do have a steel plug. Just wondering if the plugs and spring mistake went hand in hand?
I'm wondering how easy it is to check myself. I can work on a Glock, but a Beretta is a different story. Other than cleaning disassembly, I would not feel comfortable checking the trigger spring unless there was a dumbed down how-to on Youtube or something.
I'm wondering how easy it is to check myself. I can work on a Glock, but a Beretta is a different story. Other than cleaning disassembly, I would not feel comfortable checking the trigger spring unless there was a dumbed down how-to on Youtube or something.
Changing the mainspring on a 92 is no harder than on a 1911. As noted in the below video, you only need to have the grips off for this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOyLWcWsM24
Also, we're talking about the mainspring here, not the trigger (return) spring.
So is the hammer spring the same as the trigger spring? I am going to say the main spring is a whole other spring and has nothing to do with the issue at hand? Getting some spring confusion here and what is relevant to the issue.
Thanks.
So is the hammer spring the same as the trigger spring? I am going to say the main spring is a whole other spring and has nothing to do with the issue at hand? Getting some spring confusion here and what is relevant to the issue.
Thanks.
Mainspring = Hammer Spring = Beretta D Spring = Spring in question.
The "trigger return spring" is the spring connected directly to the trigger, up near where it pivots in the frame.
Mainspring = Hammer Spring = Beretta D Spring = Spring in question.
The "trigger return spring" is the spring connected directly to the trigger, up near where it pivots in the frame.
Perfect. Thanks opmike.
Anybody torn one down yet, are they retaining the mainspring cap with the solid pin or a roll pin?
Sent from my PG41200 using Tapatalk 2
Solid pin
Does any one have any insight as to whether there is any rhyme or reason for the spring and plug flaws as far as serial numbers affected? Mine is under #50.
Have not looked at my spring yet, but it feels heavy, but I do have a steel plug. Just wondering if the plugs and spring mistake went hand in hand?
Unfortunately it looks like at least 150 guns were shipped with the heavy hammer/mainspring, but fortunately so far we have only found a few with the wrong plug. We think we're going to be able to figure it out based on serial # and will advise.
DreadPirateMoyer
11-10-14, 15:18
This was posted by Bill Wilson on the BerettaForum about why he did the Brigadier Tactical.....
I feel I'm mostly among friends here, so I'm going to be "candid" here
First off I didn't have competition shooters in mind when spec'ing this pistol, primarily a optimized service pistol.
That being said I want to give some history as to the "why" of the project. As many of you know I have been a big Beretta 92 fan since back in the 80s and am a serious Beretta collector. While my first love has always been and will always be the 1911 platform, the B92 is of major interest to me. One thing I have normally been successful at is turning interests/hobbies into profit. I want things that don't exist, so it create them for myself and then figure out a way for the project to pay for what I personally get out of it. Example: I wanted custom work on my own Beretta's but I can't justify taking bench time from my pistolsmiths building 1911s since we're 1-3 years our on delivery depending on the model. So I had to make it a profitable business venture to do custom Beretta work. Same with the Brig Tac, I personally wanted a pistol Beretta didn't build and probably never would build. Only way to do this was to dive in deep enough to make a it a real and profitable business venture. I have another must have model in mind so stay tuned......
So based on what I just said it really comes down to my personal preference, I just spec'd out the pistol "I" wanted for myself, with very little though as to how it would be received by the market.......
The pistols I had in my collection that was the nearest to what I wanted were Elite IIs and 92G SDs, so I basically took what I liked best from each of these two models and then added what was missing.
I'm guess in everyone's next ? will be "why" do you like this or that. So here goes a quick rundown.
Starting with the obvious and working down to the meat and potatoes.....
All metal parts: If you want a plastic gun go buy one (hopefully a Walther PPQ M2), plastic parts have no place on a fully machined quality pistol
Checkering: You can't shoot a pistol fast unless you can keep it from moving in your hand
Beveled magazine well: While the standard M92 is a pretty easy gun to re-load, every little bit helps under stress
D Hammer spring: Why Beretta puts the god awful heavy hammer springs in their pistols I have NO idea, the DA is basically un-shootable with these 26#ish springs and totally unnecessary to ignite quality ammo. In my opinion you shouldn't be shooting the Russian crap ammo in a quality pistol, so who cares if it misfires. I've done a lot of testing on this and a 16# Wolff or factory D spring will reliable light any US mfg primer double action. If you stick with Federal or Winchester you can usually get by with a 13# spring. I have guns that are sure fire with 12# springs and Federal primers.
Removable front sight: WHY BUSA DOESN'T MAKE THIS A STANDARD FEATURE OF EVERY MODEL EXCEPT THE M9 I HAVE NO IDEA ????
G de-cocker: It's simply the way all M92s/96s should be............ Why you would want a safety on a DA/SA pistol is beyond me. This is one place though that I did make a compromise to assure the pistol would be accepted in the marketplace. I went with the std parts so it would be more readily accepted my the masses and be IDPA SSP approved. Personally I would have dropped the right side lever, as a right hander it's nothing but something to get hung on something.
Light rail: I carry a pistol EVERY day ALL day! I also put this pistol on my nightstand every night and I prefer to have a light attached to it because if I need it in the dark I want a light on it! Do I like it aesthetically, NO I'd much prefer the sleeker look of a pistol without it.
Stainless match grade barrel and tighter slide to frame fit: Accuracy good, it's one of those things you can't get too much of. Maybe everyone can't utilize the difference between the accuracy of a S&W M&P and a Brig Tac, but those of us that can really appreciate it. To address those comments about tighter tolerances reducing reliability I call BS, WC has been building some of the most reliable 1911s since the late 70s and we build them as tight as possible. Granted if you were in a hostile environment of dust, mud, sand, etc. looser might be better, but lets face it most American's don't subject their pistols to this abuse and keep them reasonably clean and lubed. I carry everyday here on my ranch in TX and my main mode of transportation is a UTV, it's gets pretty dry and dusty in the summer and my guns get awfully dirty, but I don't recall ever having a malfunction with any of the 1911s, B92s or ARs I normally have with me.
Now to the less obvious.
Tritium front sight: As I mentioned I put my pistol on the nightstand at night, a tritium sight helps me locate the pistol in the dark and there are times I might not have my light attached and it allows me to make decent hits out to 10-15yds in pretty dark conditions. As to daytime range play, yes I'd rather have a fiber optic, but it's not real deal breaker for me as I try to focus on the top of the sight blade anyway.
Brigadier slide: I shoot my pistols a lot, even now that I've completely retired from formal competition I still shoot several hundred rounds (sometimes a 1000+) every week do durability of my guns is important to me. The Brig slide is simply bullet proof, I've never heard of one failing, ever. There is a big debate as to whether a lighter or heaver slide is easier/faster to shoot. I've tried to quantify this for myself and have never been able to conclusively prove which is better. I seem to shoot a 4" 1911 or Centurion better up close (under 12yds) and a longer sight radius heavier slide better past 12yds, but the difference is so minute that it's really not worth the debate to me. In a perfect world I would have rather have a Vertec slide that was .060" wider than normal, I think this slide would also be bullet proof as to durability and more aesthetically pleasing, but I was limited to mixing and matching parts Beretta had already built at sometime.
G-10 grips: This is a VERY strong material, so the grips can be made pretty thin and still be serviceable, thinner is good on a double stack pistol. It was basically about thinning the grip, but they do look "quality" and pretty cool to.
WC rear sight: I personally did the design of this sight and feel it's as good as it's gonna get considering the limited space available on a B92 and the fact we're limited by a fixed front sight on most pistols. The U notch is a big aid in reducing horizontal sighting errors due to the fact it naturally centers the front sight like a peep sight. The sight gives a good sight picture in both shaded areas and out in bright sunlight.
WC fluted guide rod: I probably have not mentioned, but I wanted to put as many WC produced parts on the gun as possible while keeping it IDPA SSP approved, so we were pretty limited and the guide rod was an internal part we could change. Also we were not allowed to use non BUSA mfg parts that have any effect on function if we were to have BUSA warranty these pistols. I'm into quality and this is a quality part, fully machined from barstock, heat treated and Melonite coated. The fluting is probably just cosmetic, but it only costs pennies extra to do and looks cool so why not......
Elite hammer: Picked it for cosmetic look only, functionally the std hammer is better since you can usually run a pound lighter hammer spring with the same ignition.
Oversize checkered magazine release: Never had an issue with accidentally ejecting a mag with one and they are definitely an aid in fast mag changes, especially for those with small hands. Had to stick with a Beretta part due to the previously mentioned IDPA/warranty issues.
Round trigger guard: I just like it! All of my customized M92 have been modified to a round T guard. Serious shooters never put their finger on the front of the trigger guard so why have that ugly hook or half finished look of the M9A1 trigger guard. Dramatically improves the aesthetics of the pistol and gives it a "different" look from the rest of the pack.
4.7" bbl length: As above, I just like it. This is just one of those "preference" things.
I think that's pretty much it, as stated above I just built my "personal" dream gun and hopefully the project is successful enough to justify building my dream Centurion in the future
Bill, since you're in this thread, thanks for this post over on BF. The 92 is one of my favorite handguns and I'm so happy to see it getting the recognition it deserves.
Do you foresee doing a similar pistol (G, Brigadier slide, light rail) but with a threaded barrel, or at least an extended barrel that we can get threaded by a third party? I think this is the best 92 ever made, but I don't think I'll end up buying one because of this, and that makes me sad. :( With how reliably a 92 suppresses, you'd make a lot of customers happy!
...or at least just me. :)
What's the easiest way to tell the D spring from the regular M9 spring? The one I'm looking at is 3 5/8" long. It has 30 or 31 coils depending on how you count.
What's the easiest way to tell the D spring from the regular M9 spring? The one I'm looking at is 3 5/8" long. It has 30 or 31 coils depending on how you count.
D spring is 2 3/8" long, the wrong spring (full power std) is 2 5/8" long
D spring is 2 3/8" long, the wrong spring (full power std) is 2 5/8" long
Thanks Mr Wilson. That was a typo - hate my phone some days. Mine is 2 5/8 long. The plug appears to be metal though.
wilsoncombatrep
11-10-14, 20:56
d vs standard
http://i59.tinypic.com/2dw7r78.jpg
d vs standard
http://i59.tinypic.com/2dw7r78.jpg
Excellent - thank you. I just emailed Brittany with my serial number.
Here are the serial #s of the guns shipped with the wrong hammer spring:
1-122 and 215-290
So far we have only found 2 guns with the wrong plug, so don't think this is much of a problem.
We will ship replacement springs out to all the above serial # customers on Thur..
Very sorry for the problem.
Here are the serial #s of the guns shipped with the wrong hammer spring:
1-122 and 215-290
So far we have only found 2 guns with the wrong plug, so don't think this is much of a problem.
We will ship replacement springs out to all the above serial # customers on Thur..
Very sorry for the problem.
Hi Bill,
First off, thanks for putting this together. Mine is on order and I'm looking forward to it. Any chance of Wilson Combat offering a threaded barrel in the future? I'd like to be able to shoot this gun suppressed from time to time. Thanks for the web presence as well. Its been interesting to hear your thoughts.
Also while I'm at it, can a 92 fs compact be converted to a g model?
Appreciate the info,
Damien
Also while I'm at it, can a 92 fs compact be converted to a g model?
I'm not Bill :) but yes the 92 FS Compact can and have been converted to G mode. My friend sent his in back in the springs. Got it back in less than 3 months. The work done was excellent. They charge $150.
Gary1911A1
11-11-14, 17:06
I may be calling Wilson Combat tomorrow to see if I can preorder one from the remaining shipments. I guess I'm getting old as I have an appreciation for metal DA/SA pistols over polymer striker fired tools.
I may be calling Wilson Combat tomorrow to see if I can preorder one from the remaining shipments. I guess I'm getting old as I have an appreciation for metal DA/SA pistols over polymer striker fired tools.
You guess you're getting old? Dude you have a Miami Vice user tile...:) A DA/SA gun is the least of your problems...
I'm a Glock guy through and though. I carry a 19L or a 26L all the time. I recently got a 1911 and sort of fell back in love with the feel of metal guns. I don't need a Beretta - but I want a Beretta... I teach a bunch and we still have DA/SA guns show up, so that is my very thin justification. I think its the same reason we opt for Mustangs, Pinball machines, and Juke boxes. We're going retro...It could be worse, I could be buying a fixed gear bike and a box of skinny jeans. Besides its still an excellent pistol.
Finally got to the range today. Shot very well with great accuracy, I don't measure groups. Did several drills with it trying to practice my DA to SA skills. Felt great with very little recoil due in part to the slide weight I'm sure. I've had a couple or more Elite IIs over the years and don't mind the Brigadier slide. I really like how they took the sharp edges down on it. Didn't have a single issue with it out of 550rds of mixed ammo, both hollow points and FMJ.
Mine was one that shipped with a standard hammer spring, but I put a spare D spring in I had laying around. Wilson is supposed to be sending a replacement. I'd like to also get a single side decocking lever for it.
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee515/cathellsk/8fefb62bcea40863a4b56910fcaf1c36.jpg
ramairthree
11-12-14, 03:10
Got the shipping notice today. Seems like the "next batch" is here!
Got the shipping notice today. Seems like the "next batch" is here!
When did you order? I ordered last week and was told 3-4 weeks... Don't want to get my hopes up or harass WC.
D
We expect another big shipment in early Dec..
ramairthree
11-12-14, 15:31
When did you order? I ordered last week and was told 3-4 weeks... Don't want to get my hopes up or harass WC.
D
I contacted via Email early the first day asking about reserving a SN, the mil discount, and placing the order.
Was told could not reserve a SN, no mil discount.
Later that day told discount did apply and placed the online order.
Did not get in on the first batch, which I think was most of the first 250.
Was told I was in on the next batch. Was not sure if that meant when the rest of the first 250 came in, or the next 250 in December.
Looks like it was the second portion of the first 250.
Just picked up mine. Serial number is in the 250 range. To add a few little observations of my own:
Aluminium mainspring housing
20# spring
Single action is particularly creepy and gritty. Will see how it breaks in while I dry fire the hell out of it this evening.
Decocker is easy to manipulate. Not nearly as hard as some owners have reported on their units. ALL 92's need to ship with this. Immediately; humble opinions be damned.
As mentioned by another owner, the trigger bar rubs very slightly on the cutout in the grips on mine, too. Just the nature of the beast with VZ Grips? I can't remember how the cutout looks on the stock Beretta grips. Doesn't really seem like it's having an affect on the trigger pull since it's so slight.
Tight barrel lockup, no discernable play whatsoever.
Minor horizontal movement between frame and slide. No noticeable vertical movement. (I don't really care too much about this, but it's a 1200 dollar gun so I'm mentioning it)
This gun has been talked and debated to death, so I'm not really adding much. Just some thoughts after the first 5 minutes of ownership. Beretta are fools not to make something similar to this a regular catalog item.
What IWB holsters are you guys going to be going with? I'm going to rotate this into my primary carry role once I establish its reliability.
Mine is in the next batch!!!
Does anyone have any experience with the three holsters from Wilson Combat they say fit this pistol? They are the LoProfile II, Practical, & Tactical Assault. I'm wanting an IWB, leather or kydex, for CCW but will take one of the Wilsons since winter is coming on anyway. Any word on the BladeTech holster Mr. Wilson mentioned will be out soon for these? I have a Galco Yaqui slide currently and that sucks, I'd rather Magnum P.I. it over that thing.
Thanks in advance for any leads.
Magsz has a review of the "Tactical Assault" holster on his YouTube channel. (http://youtu.be/IPqLwPfOup4)
I've not been impressed with any of the WC holsters and will being going the JM route since they have molds for the 92G-SD. Lead times are a problem, though. Would like something in the interim, but options are limited for IWB.
Magsz has a review of the "Tactical Assault" holster on his YouTube channel. (http://youtu.be/IPqLwPfOup4)
I've not been impressed with any of the WC holsters and will being going the JM route since they have molds for the 92G-SD. Lead times are a problem, though. Would like something in the interim, but options are limited for IWB.
Who is JM?
Ok, I've checked out JMs site. They have the GSD as an option like you said, but the trigger guard is still different. Will this be an issue you think fitting the Wilson? Also, could you give me an impression of their quality? I've never heard of them before. Thanks.
I've handled JM holsters and found that it is top notch. People like Ernest Langdon and Mike Pannone use them and speak highly of them.
Thank you Sam, I did not know that.
It is now showing up on GB.....=0)
what is the difference between the M9A1 magazines vs. the 92FS Magazines other than sand resistance?
It is now showing up on GB.....=0)
what is the difference between the M9A1 magazines vs. the 92FS Magazines other than sand resistance?
Good news 0=
I aint selling mine thats for sure....
I really like this gun a lot, but one has to wonder how much better it is than a regular 92A1 with a fluff, and buff, and the G mod. For $1200, I can buy two of them, and for a few bucks more do most of the mods myself. I'm not taking anything away from Wilson, as they are top notch IMHO.
Depends on how much value you put on specific features. I addressed this question on another forum, but to get a 92A1 into similar spec gun, you'll spend more money.
Here's the link and it assumes professional work. If you can checker the frame and refinish it, or do G conversion yourself, youll save some.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13948-Wilson-Combat-Beretta-92G-Brigadier-Tactical-Review/page3
JM Custom is at the top of the game when it come's to kydex holsters. I have over a dozen pieces from him and all are top notch. I also like RCS, DSG, CCC and X-Concealment.
JM Custom is at the top of the game when it come's to kydex holsters. I have over a dozen pieces from him and all are top notch. I also like RCS, DSG, CCC and X-Concealment.
Since the kydex holster market is turning into alphabet soup these days, for those that are curious:
RCS = http://rcsgear.com/
DSG = http://darkstargear.com/
CCC = http://www.customcarryconcepts.com/
JM = http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/
So, I imagine quite a few of us have our hands on these Brig Tacs now. What AIWB/IWB holsters are you all going with or otherwise have confirmed fit? I overlooked the differences in trigger guard when it comes to holsters built for the G-SD.
The trigger guard difference should be a non issue for fit. The Wilson is rounded, but appears the same inside the trigger guard where retention would matter.
The trigger guard difference should be a non issue for fit. The Wilson is rounded, but appears the same inside the trigger guard where retention would matter.
Thanks for the info. I'm going to order something tonight hopefully.
Depends on how much value you put on specific features. I addressed this question on another forum, but to get a 92A1 into similar spec gun, you'll spend more money.
Here's the link and it assumes professional work. If you can checker the frame and refinish it, or do G conversion yourself, youll save some.
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13948-Wilson-Combat-Beretta-92G-Brigadier-Tactical-Review/page3
Thanks for the link. I really don't need some of the mods, but I understand to do them all separately would be more cost than Wilson's package. Again, it is a beautiful gun, but I'd really only want a trigger job, and G mod. The rest is nice, but uneseccary for me anyway, especially the cosmetic stuff.
superstratjunky
11-17-14, 16:33
Outstanding job, Mr. Wilson. The 92 is a beautiful pistol & always looked like a Classic. Now even more so.
ramairthree
11-18-14, 16:02
I am not an SFOD or ST6 operator.
I am not a gun writer, reviewer, shooting champion, instructor, etc.
But I have had an on again, off again Beretta thing for decades and finally got my pistol.
I did a "Beretta Manifesto" review of my hands on impression of the gun itself,
and a 750 round range report.
Neither a groveling fan boy nor a hater.
If you are considering one,
everyone I know/have to say about it here.
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=111708
ramairthree
11-20-14, 22:57
1250 rounds through it so far.
The Wilson frame, M9A1 frame, and EII frames,
with checkering the VZ tactical slant grips are the best feel in a Beretta I have held.
Will Fennell
11-21-14, 19:43
I got my Beretta WC Brigadier Tactical today. I had WC perform and full action job, and install their mag guide, before shipping it to me.....and I am impressed. I've been shooting B92's on and off for a number of years, including a bit of IDPA competition with a Langdon tuned Vertec 10 years or so ago. This Brig/Tac has the BEST Beretta 92 trigger I have ever experienced.298402984129842
I got to the range late, and was able to run 200+ rounds through the gun before it became too dark to make out the targets well enough to engage. I shoot Fiocchi 115gr ball, Magtech 115gr ball, Fed AE 147gr FMJ, WW 127gr Ranger T, and Wilson Combat 115gr Barnes Tac-XP. All ran fine, and shot to POA. Super soft shooting, even with the hot Ranger T loads. The great trigger made getting good hits easy, even strong hand DA shots.
I can't wait to get more range time. Good job Beretta and Wilson Combat!
I ordered a second one today, but was able to get the S/N I wanted when ordering the first. Still TBD whether I'll put the first one in the safe for an investment or just sell it. I will get the action tune and mag guide done on this one, now that it's an option
I think it would be nice to see a Sig P226 get the Wilson treatment.
Exiledviking
11-21-14, 23:59
I think it would be nice to see a Sig P226 get the Wilson treatment.
Anything would be better than the Ron Cohen treatment on a SIG...
I'm thrilled to see custom work on Beretta pistols by WC and would love to own a WC Brigadier Tactical someday.
ramairthree
11-22-14, 00:17
Round count 1250 and updated review
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=111708
Basically,
if you do not like the rail, the best comparable frame is the EII, long out of production.
The Wilson has a better mag release and all metal parts.
If you like the rail, the best comparable/available frame is the M9A1, but the Wilson has all metal parts and a Brig G upper.
The only other readily available round trigger guard frame with a rail is the 92A1, but it is an FS, non Brig upper and has the expensive, and in my opinion un-needed new recoil system. It is also un-checkered and no mag well bevel.
I am not a fan of the sights,
don't hate them but don't consider them a significant upgrade.
This is the best out of the box Beretta ever.
There is no current production Brig G upper.
Old Brig Gs and Elites bring a premium on the used market.
Old LE trade in non Brig Gs can be found for a bargain but are not reliably available.
Holsters are an issue. A Brig upper holster you can find. This is like needing a holster for the rare 92G-SD, but now add in the rounded trigger guard.
I would like to see Beretta make more of these uppers,
full night sight some and call it the Elite III Tactical and make at least 2000 on either the Wilson Frame or the M9A1 frame.
I would like to see Beretta make more of these uppers,
comp rear sight with FO front, call it the Elite IV Competition and make at lease 2000 on the EII frame. Make a great production gun and with all the new USPSA / IDPA shooters,
many of which I see are now looking at all metal guns,
would be a great Production gun.
I have an unreasonable affection for the Beretta I must disclose.
Right now Beretta has brought back the Brig upper,
but on regular frames, plastic parts, and a regular frame.
Right now Beretta has brought back the G model,
but on regular frames, regular slide, and plastic parts.
I haven't read through the whole thread, and have also been out of the loop for a couple of months.
Are people interested in these mostly as collectibles?
I was under the impression that Beretta wasn't thought of highly on the forum.
MountainRaven
11-22-14, 01:27
I haven't read through the whole thread, and have also been out of the loop for a couple of months.
Are people interested in these mostly as collectibles?
I was under the impression that Beretta wasn't thought of highly on the forum.
I would be interested in buying one as a cold weather pistol. Glocks and 1911s suck in thick gloves.
As for the reputation of Berettas on this forum? It seems to me that pretty much everything I've read here has been positive. Unless we're talking about their triggers. Or the sights.
I haven't read through the whole thread, and have also been out of the loop for a couple of months.
Are people interested in these mostly as collectibles?
I was under the impression that Beretta wasn't thought of highly on the forum.
Comments on Berettas on this forum have been generally positive. Most of people's complaints revolve around it being a horse pistol, sight options, etc. Dropping in a "D" spring solves much of the trigger issues that aren't just the nature of it being a DA/SA pistol.
Most of the negativity on Berettas I've seen online have been on the...lesser forums where people parrot what they've heard and/or cite experience with shot-to-hell military M9's. Those discussions invariably have people talking about slide failures, open top slide disadvantages, etc.
Comments on Berettas on this forum have been generally positive. Most of people's complaints revolve around it being a horse pistol, sight options, etc. Dropping in a "D" spring solves much of the trigger issues that aren't just the nature of it being a DA/SA pistol.
Most of the negativity on Berettas I've seen online have been on the...lesser forums where people parrot what they've heard and/or cite experience with shot-to-hell military M9's. Those discussions invariably have people talking about slide failures, open top slide disadvantages, etc.
Which should not surprise people once they understand the conventional military attitude toward small arms where there is no preventative maintenance. Guns are used until something breaks and then just that broken part is replaced. The M9's I was exposed to in the Air Force were well taken care of but I wasn't a direct combatant. The pistols used by our Security Forces were more worn. I did take delivery of some new guns that were delivered to the base armory and found they were missing mags and the ones in the weapon were very used. It didn't take a rocket scientist to understand where they ended up.
ramairthree
11-22-14, 10:05
When the Beretta was first issued, in the Army it went to Ranger and SF and was cool. SEALs were playing with them. They starred in cool movies, LEAs were going to them in droves. The design was state of the art. High capacity 9mms were not a ton of designs available at the time.
Then everyone in the military had them, and they were not cool anymore. The 9mm hate vs. 45, then 10mm, then .40, etc. was abound.
Because the very coolest unit had not gone to them, and everyone had them, etc. the hate began to spread and the wanna-raters could get instant cool points by busting on them and showing off their new .45. The AWB also affected the market place. The Checkmate mag fiasco also hurt.
Anyone in the know knows the guns are highly accurate and very reliable. The only valid point was the weakness of the original locking block with several thousands of rounds and not running well lubed. Several thousands of rounds can also do in the trigger return spring on occasion but usually does not. The slides falling off and the slide cracking and reliableness were overblown, etc.
It is big and heavy. (Grip size is a valid point for the small handed)
It has a slide mounted safety which for small hands may be an issue.
I love the 1911 guys busting of the Beretta for reliability.
I see Glocks go down or get limp wristed all the time at matches yet no one can shatter the Glocks never jam mythos.
It is not the perfect gun, I also own 1911s and Glocks.
But do to the size, weight, and minimal recoil it is a good choice for me these days.
From Bill Wilson:
It's my understanding the reason for the HEAVY standard hammer spring is a military spec requirement that filtered over to the commercial market pistols, personally I see no need for it. The factory D spring will light all USA mfg primers and most quality foreign mfg ones and do make a big difference in trigger pull, both DA and SA. The D spring is basically 16#, personally I use only Federal or Winchester primers in my handloads and when I shoot factory it's usually PMC or Federal so I run 13# or 14# springs in my pistols and they are surefire with these primers. DA hammer arch varies somewhat from gun to gun and even top quality springs do have a little variance so therefore there is no "one side fits all" as to the spring weight you can get by with in your individual pistol.
Also for those who experience a slight creep in the single action pull, here's a little trick that will usually fix it if it's not too bad.
MAKE SURE THE PISTOL IS UNLOADED !!!! Cock the hammer and dry fire the pistol while putting heavy pressure on the back of the hammer with your support hand thumb (like your trying to push the hammer forward to make it fire). Usually 1 to 12 times will result in an improvement in the single action pull. Basically what your doing is accelerating wear on the hammer/sear engagement surfaces and ironing out any minor surface finish imperfections.
Hot damn, that actually worked. Grittiness/hitch in SA is just about gone on mine.
MountainRaven
11-23-14, 16:00
WC's website shows that these are out of stock, but still allows one to add them to the cart. Does this mean that they're still accepting backorders?
WC's website shows that these are out of stock, but still allows one to add them to the cart. Does this mean that they're still accepting backorders?
yes, approx 550 sold of the 1000 delivered or in process.Best guess of delivery on orders placed now is Jan.
Mr. Wilson,
Will there be an Ernest Langdon model in the future?
Mr. Wilson,
Will there be an Ernest Langdon model in the future?
Who knows what the future may bring once BUSA gets moved to TN and fulfills the current military contract ................
I like the sound of that. I already picked up a Brig. Tactical through PT-Partners/Terry Peters in Texas. Would love to add a Langdon model to my collection.
Who knows what the future may bring once BUSA gets moved to TN and fulfills the current military contract ................
Please don't offer a SAO version with frame mounted safety... My wallet will need to be hidden from me if so.
Seriously though, thanks again for the 92G! Put another130+ rounds through it after a match today. It was a big hit with everyone who shot it.
Gary1911A1
11-24-14, 13:35
Please don't offer a SAO version with frame mounted safety... My wallet will need to be hidden from me if so.
Seriously though, thanks again for the 92G! Put another130+ rounds through it after a match today. It was a big hit with everyone who shot it.
My wallet can't stand it either, but what choice would we have?
No desire for a single action frame mounted safety model.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/20141122_102427.jpg
RAM Engineer
11-24-14, 15:02
Here's hoping for a non-railed version of this Wilson gun.
QuickStrike
11-24-14, 16:03
Installed the wilson short reach trigger and D spring.
http://almostdumb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/feels-good-man-2.jpg
Per YVK, using my holster, new Wilson Brig Tac fits perfectly in JM AIWB for the 92G-SD.
SamuelBLong
11-24-14, 19:40
Per YVK, using my holster, new Wilson Brig Tac fits perfectly in JM AIWB for the 92G-SD.
Good to know. Now it's just the waiting game.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely going to be going with JM for my main carry rig for this one.
That said, is WC is the only outfit with ready-to-ship holsters for this thing? I don't like any of their offerings and I'm going to need something in the interim while I wait would could be three months for JM to get a holster ready and shipped.
Definitely going to be going with JM for my main carry rig for this one.
That said, is WC is the only outfit with ready-to-ship holsters for this thing? I don't like any of their offerings and I'm going to need something in the interim while I wait would could be three months for JM to get a holster ready and shipped.
OWB or IWB?
Blade-Tec for Elite II is a good OWB that fits the G-SD, and thus Brig Tac.
No desire for a single action frame mounted safety model.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/20141122_102427.jpg
Understood. Some people do though. Not me either.
Placed my order for one of these today. I was told to expect a late January or early February delivery. Really looking forward to this one.
ramairthree
12-10-14, 15:29
Placed my order for one of these today. I was told to expect a late January or early February delivery. Really looking forward to this one.
You will really like it. I just hit 2k rounds on mine today. Mix of 115 grain Berrys with 5.0 of Bullseye, 124 Berrys with 4.3 of Bullseye,
FC Walmart 100 round boxes, WWB Wallmart 100 round boxes, etc.
I would have been happier is the trigger guard was not rounded (holster compatibility),
and it had the Elite II front slide serrations.
Thanks. What holster are you using? I was think of getting a Safariland ALS since I have several and I'm used to that set-up. I'll have to see if they make one that will fit. How about mags? I was thinking of getting some Mec-Gar 18rd AFC mags.
ramairthree
12-10-14, 16:01
I do not have a good holster for it yet.
Just using a slide holster for it or a bladetech pro but that will not work for carry or production type shooting.
I threw a light on it and used a SL 6285-736 some.
The mags it comes with are awesome. Those are my favorite standard capacity mags. I add NDZ aluminum floor plates and ditch the plastic.
My next favorite standard capacity mags are PB factory ones with the metal plates and followers. I also use those plates and followers in sand resistant mags instead of the plastic.
I am not a fan of the factory 17 round mags. Too light and too much plastic.
For extra capacity mags, I use the mec gar 20s. Barely any size increase over their 18s.
ps-
the M3X is a little too fat, and the TLR-1 a little too loose for the SL holster. It fits perfectly for a non-rail Beretta with one of the older surefires.
I ordered a few of the Mec-Gar AFC mags from Greg Cote, on sale right now. Holster options look pretty limited. I don't think Safariland makes an ALS that will fit. I might pick one of these up when they are back in stock:
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Tactical-Assault-Holster-Beretta-92_96-Right-Hand-15-Belt-Black-Kydex/productinfo/TA4BKR15/
I don't think Safariland makes an ALS that will fit. I might pick one of these up when they are back in stock:
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Tactical-Assault-Holster-Beretta-92_96-Right-Hand-15-Belt-Black-Kydex/productinfo/TA4BKR15/
For Safariland, check for a holster that will fit a 92G-SD, it will work with this Brigadier Tactical. I did a quick check on just one style of ALS holster and it showed that it's available for the 92G-SD:
http://www.safariland.com/als-holster-system/all-als/
The Tactical Assault from Wilson will fit it perfectly. I had one of those.
ramairthree
12-10-14, 16:34
I plan to start making some Kydex stuff for myself.
I am going to make a naked holster,
and then a light one for it.
I am either going to go TLR-1 or APL on it. The APL is a little sleeker.
I found a 6378 model that supposedly fits the 92G-SD, but I'm wondering if it's a mistake. It the same holster that fits a regular 92. When I try searching for similar railed pistols like the Vertec and 92G Elite 1A there doesn't seem to be anything available.
For Safariland, check for a holster that will fit a 92G-SD, it will work with this Brigadier Tactical. I did a quick check on just one style of ALS holster and it showed that it's available for the 92G-SD:
http://www.safariland.com/als-holster-system/all-als/
The Tactical Assault from Wilson will fit it perfectly. I had one of those.
That same holster should fit the SD, Vertec, Elite 1A. The common denominator in all those guns are the rail. Safariland holsters have adjustment screw (some more than one) that will allow tightening or loosening. Although the Vertec doesn't have the Brigadier (beefed up) slide, tightening the screw slightly will insure proper fit.
I've fallen in love with this gun just by looking at pictures of it on the Internet.
My first gun was a 92 Brigadier, so there's a bit of nostalgia combined with jealousy that mine isn't nearly so pretty. I can't wait to get one. Too bad that's so very unlikely here in HI.
wilsoncombatrep
12-13-14, 07:43
Per YVK, using my holster, new Wilson Brig Tac fits perfectly in JM AIWB for the 92G-SD.
Oddly enough my Brig tac fits perfectly in my JM OWB for my 92A1 :)
ramairthree
12-13-14, 15:57
I don't really have issues with leather holsters.
With Kydex, they make holsters for Berettas with rails and a square trigger guard and a standard slide or they make holsters for railed/round trigger guard and standard slide, or they make holsters for Berettas with Brig slides non railed frames, etc.
There are some holsters that will work, but made specifically for a railed frame, round trigger guard with Brig upper- well, the Wilson is the only pistol with that combo.
I am at over 2200 rounds so far.
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=111708
I sent in my slide and got the g conversion done. Very nice. I bought the guide rod, trigger, grips and some springs . Mark threw those in for me. But the WC mag release had to be jammed in to the point it would not function properly. Anyone with tips on installing the ext mag release.
I sent Matt at WC the same question, so when I get a response, I'll post.
Thanks Fellas.
PB
Yep. I could not get the W/C mag release to move when installed. I had to force it into position and it's super tight. I even tried installing it with the plungers and spring out. No Go.
I tired the OEM part and can see that it moves back and forth normally, so I re-installed the original mag catch. It's like the W/C is oversized or something.
http://i59.tinypic.com/6qci06.jpg
Exiledviking
12-15-14, 11:10
A guy on the Beretta forum is having the same issue with the WC mag release, FWIW.
A guy on the Beretta forum is having the same issue with the WC mag release, FWIW.
Thanks. I did the trigger and main spring no problem... and expected the Mag catch to be the easiest part, but it was a mess. I'm 99% sure it's not me.
I just got notification today that the 92G Brigadier Tactical has been approved for USPSA Production division and will be listed on their approved list next week.
ramairthree
12-18-14, 10:38
That is great news, seems they are considering it lumped in with other 92G Brigs. Thank you.
ramairthree
12-18-14, 10:39
Thanks. I did the trigger and main spring no problem... and expected the Mag catch to be the easiest part, but it was a mess. I'm 99% sure it's not me.
Oversized mag releases (not the EII one, but the wider, checkered ones) are a touch tricky to get lined up just right in comparison to stock.
Oversized mag releases (not the EII one, but the wider, checkered ones) are a touch tricky to get lined up just right in comparison to stock.
I got that sucker line up an installed, but it was locked up tight. If you looked at it, it'd appear all you had to do was push the catch and it would operate. But it was stuck in place pretty tight. (this is the one that has the raised button with the WC logo on it by the way)
For Safariland, check for a holster that will fit a 92G-SD, it will work with this Brigadier Tactical. I did a quick check on just one style of ALS holster and it showed that it's available for the 92G-SD:
http://www.safariland.com/als-holster-system/all-als/
The Tactical Assault from Wilson will fit it perfectly. I had one of those.
Are you sure the WCBT will fit a Safariland ALS holster made for a G SD? Won't the different trigger guard profiles screw the fit up? I'm looking to get a 6395 for the WCBT.
I don't think any of the ALS holsters will fit the Wilson.
I don't think any of the ALS holsters will fit the Wilson.
Correct, we just got in some exact fit holsters from BladeTech http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Blade-Tech-Wilson-92G-Brigadier-Tactical-Right-Hand-OWB-Holster-15-Belt-Black-Molded-Kydex/productinfo/NW420/
I really want a holster with a thumb manipulated retention device as I plan on using this pistol for 3 gun comp and don't want to be DQ'd when it falls out as I'm crawling or climbing over an obstacle. I also want a holster that is easily mountable to the Safariland ELS competition belt. I already have a WC Tactical Assault Holster but I'm looking for something like what I described. Anybody know of the type of holster that I'm looking for thy will work with the WCBT. Thanks.
I don't think any of the ALS holsters will fit the Wilson.
This unfortunately is why I didn't order one. I use a 6360 on duty and feel it's by far the best duty holster out there. If a gun won't fit a 6360 I unfortunately won't carry it. I am still holding out for a Wilson model with a Vertec or standard slide, the Trijicon front night sight from Tooltech is fine for tritium and Wilson's fiber optic offering covers all the bases for me.
So... I got crazy lucky and sourced one right before I couldn't anymore in CA. I can't wait to get it to the range!
So... I got crazy lucky and sourced one right before I couldn't anymore in CA. I can't wait to get it to the range!
Good for you, my heart goes out to the CA fellas.
Wilson Combat got back to me and said the first batch of mag releases were a bit off, and to send mine back and they would send me another. They were better than two weeks in the reply, but at least I got one.
PB
I'm told they shut down over the holiday so that's to be expected
So after some exchanges with Wilsons customer service and reading some of Bills response regarding the Brig Tac on another forum , I'm left wondering...
Why didn't this gun come completely decked out in Wilson stuff? Particularly the short reach trigger and the magazine release? Is it because Wilson wanted to maintain the beretta one year warranty (which is crap by the way...) or was it because beretta simply wouldn't build the Brig without a certain amount of their own parts?
I'd like to know because I want to use mine for idpa (after I send it in for the action tune) but I don't think I can have the Wilson trigger installed.
but I don't think I can have the Wilson trigger installed.
Why? Is Wilson's trigger materially different from OEM short reach trigger?
I am going to hazard a guess that WC trigger is made by Beretta.
So after some exchanges with Wilsons customer service and reading some of Bills response regarding the Brig Tac on another forum , I'm left wondering...
Why didn't this gun come completely decked out in Wilson stuff? Particularly the short reach trigger and the magazine release? Is it because Wilson wanted to maintain the beretta one year warranty (which is crap by the way...) or was it because beretta simply wouldn't build the Brig without a certain amount of their own parts?
I'd like to know because I want to use mine for idpa (after I send it in for the action tune) but I don't think I can have the Wilson trigger installed.
Even though competition isn't the primary reason why Bill wanted to have this pistol built, he did want to keep it legal for IDPA SSP. That affected what WC parts they could add. Bill also mentioned they were not allowed to use non-BUSA manufactured parts that may affect function due to Beretta warrantying the pistols. I pulled this from a post on Beretta Forum explaining why he specced the pistol the way he did.
Why? Is Wilson's trigger materially different from OEM short reach trigger?
I am going to hazard a guess that WC trigger is made by Beretta.
Wilson Combat makes their own trigger that can be purchased on their website. It is designed to be a shorter reach than the Beretta triggers.
ETA: http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-Combat-Short-Reach-Steel-Trigger-Beretta-92_96/productinfo/635/
I have a Wilson Combat trigger in my commercial M9 and a steel Beretta trigger in my 92FS Vertec. There is a difference between the two.
JBecker 72
01-09-15, 23:45
No I'm pretty sure the WC short reach is actually made by Beretta. It's from the Vertec pistol. Just like some parts are made by Allegheny, like their low profile safety. And from the conversation I had with the Wilson rep after a minor goof up, I'm positive they don't do the G conversions in house.
Edit: Wilson might do some additional work to the short reach trigger.
I have a Wilson Combat trigger in my commercial M9 and a steel Beretta trigger in my 92FS Vertec. There is a difference between the two.
Post a pic, if you can. If your steel trigger is not an original Vertec one, there will be a difference. As JBecker said, an OEM Vertec trigger is a short reach one. I have several of them, and they look the same as WC's.
No I'm pretty sure the WC short reach is actually made by Beretta. It's from the Vertec pistol. Just like some parts are made by Allegheny, like their low profile safety. And from the conversation I had with the Wilson rep after a minor goof up, I'm positive they don't do the G conversions in house.
Edit: Wilson might do some additional work to the short reach trigger.
The above information is false! We make the following Beretta parts in-house on American made Haas machines. Short reach trigger, rear sights, fiber optic front sights, fluted guide rod, magazine well guide, all WC brand safeties/de-cockers and 3 versions of magazine releases. All custom work on any make of firearm including Beretta's in done in-house, G conversions included. None of our parts come from Allegheny and only factory replacement parts from Beretta are stocked.
Coming soon: Oversize through hardened trigger bar, a U shaped magazine guide and more front sight variations
JBecker 72
01-10-15, 08:24
The above information is false! We make the following Beretta parts in-house on American made Haas machines. Short reach trigger, rear sights, fiber optic front sights, fluted guide rod, magazine well guide, all WC brand safeties/de-cockers and 3 versions of magazine releases. All custom work on any make of firearm including Beretta's in done in-house, G conversions included. None of our parts come from Allegheny and only factory replacement parts from Beretta are stocked.
Coming soon: Oversize through hardened trigger bar, a U shaped magazine guide and more front sight variations
Sorry for giving bad info then. I was pretty sure I had read that the safeties were originally from Allegheny. It begs the question though. Why do you have the G conversions done in batches if they are done in house? Because that added another 3-5 months to my wait time on my 92A1 because I "missed the last batch". Or did I misunderstand and you are waiting for a batch of parts to come in?
Post a pic, if you can. If your steel trigger is not an original Vertec one, there will be a difference. As JBecker said, an OEM Vertec trigger is a short reach one. I have several of them, and they look the same as WC's.
The steel trigger I have in my Vertec is not stock to my Vertec. I bought it a couple years ago on BUSA's website and originally had it in my commercial M9 until I bought the WC trigger. I put the WC trigger in the M9, since it is a shorter reach and the backstrap on the gun is bigger, and I put the previously purchased steel trigger in the Vertec. My Vertec originally came with the polymer coated steel trigger, not a short reach trigger..
Pic as requested - M9 with WC short reach trigger and Vertec with Beretta steel trigger
http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h380/Timbonez/CFCF547D-CC54-4696-BEBC-B8CD4C1947DA.jpg (http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/Timbonez/media/CFCF547D-CC54-4696-BEBC-B8CD4C1947DA.jpg.html)
The above information is false! We make the following Beretta parts in-house on American made Haas machines. Short reach trigger, rear sights, fiber optic front sights, fluted guide rod, magazine well guide, all WC brand safeties/de-cockers and 3 versions of magazine releases. All custom work on any make of firearm including Beretta's in done in-house, G conversions included. None of our parts come from Allegheny and only factory replacement parts from Beretta are stocked.
Coming soon: Oversize through hardened trigger bar, a U shaped magazine guide and more front sight variations
Thanks for the response Bill!
It's always amazing to get it straight from the man himself!
I got lucky (with the help of Tractus Arms) to source a Brig (#333) into CA before we couldn't get anymore guns not on our blasted roster. I'm a very proud owner of this pistol and I can't wait to get it out to matches, classes and show off to my gun buddies at the range.
I look forward to your new improved parts for the 92 and now I'm curious on the hardened trigger bar. How will this affect/improve function ?
Its also important to differentiate design vs. manufacture. Its possible for one company to design and another to license it and manufacture it under their own branding. Think Chrysler making 8sp transmissions designed by ZF. You can buy a BMW with a ZF 8HP45 or a Chrysler with their version of it. ZF maintains the intellectual property but for a number of reasons (production capacity, logistics, QC, etc), they license it out to be made by others.
AGW is a one-man shop. :p
No matter who makes these parts.....please take note; many of us have Inox guns that need parts, too. (hint; make silver!) :)
Coal Dragger
01-10-15, 17:38
I'm going to guess at this point that all of these pistols are now spoken for?
I'm going to guess at this point that all of these pistols are now spoken for?
No, approx 925 out of 2500 sold. Orders placed now can expect delivery between mid-Feb and late March
Coal Dragger
01-10-15, 20:41
Great thanks, out of curiosity and I know it can be tough to predict; but what kind of lead time could one expect on one of these pistols with the optional trigger job?
Better than expected? Just wondering how many you had hoped to sell in the business case.
I picked up mine today....will have to get some pics with its stablemates in daylight.
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