View Full Version : Scalarworks Micro mount.
Anybody seen one of these yet? I really like the design, probably give one a try.....can't think of a reason not to yet.
https://scalarworks.com/optic-mounts/ldm-micro/
Looks interesting for sure, but price is kinda steep for my try and see budget. If it gets the M4C nod of manly approval, then I'd go for it.
Well....I ordered one. Primary Arms sells it in a bundle with their new Advanced Micro sight, which I've been wanting to try on one of my range toys. I'll stick a T-1 on the Scalarworks mount and give it a try. Basically got the mount for $110 with the bundle.
Scalarworks
11-08-14, 08:46
Well....I ordered one. Primary Arms sells it in a bundle with their new Advanced Micro sight, which I've been wanting to try on one of my range toys. I'll stick a T-1 on the Scalarworks mount and give it a try. Basically got the mount for $110 with the bundle.
Did you go for the Absolute or Lower-third co-witness version?
4DAIVI PAI2K5
11-08-14, 09:11
looks super nice!
Did you go for the Absolute or Lower-third co-witness version?
Went with lower 1/3. My only concern is the ability to tighten the smallish looking thumbscrew adequately tight by hand.
Scalarworks
11-08-14, 12:28
looks super nice!
Thanks!
Went with lower 1/3. My only concern is the ability to tighten the smallish looking thumbscrew adequately tight by hand.
Thanks for giving it a try and worry not; you won't have any problem getting it tight, and the design of the mount will keep it from unscrewing itself.
jerrysimons
11-08-14, 13:01
This thing is awesome! As light as a Fortis F1 but WITH quick detach capabilities! I weighed my lower 1/3rd ScalarWorks LDM/Micro at 1.3oz (w/o 4 Micro mounting screws) which is the exact same as my Fortis F1s (with 2 .1oz rail mounting screws and w/o the 4 micro screws). I would guess that the box design would better withstand lateral forces over I-beam design of the F1 as well, but continuing to compare the LDM/Micro to the F1 is apples to oranges because the ScalarWorks is QD! You have got to be able to get that RDS off the gun if it fogs up or the glass cracks and can't be seen through to use the irons.
The LDM/Micro is what I have been waiting for lightweight QD, it will probably be my new go to Micro mount, especially for lightweight builds and might even beat out BOBRO on the go-to gun.
How 'bout some 30mm and 1" lightweight QD scope mounts ScalarWorks? Kinda like Aero Precision's but with your detent QD mechanism. :D
Yeah, I'd love to see some 30 and 34mm light weight rings by you guys!
Scalarworks
11-08-14, 14:18
This thing is awesome! As light as a Fortis F1 but WITH quick detach capabilities! I weighed my lower 1/3rd ScalarWorks LDM/Micro at 1.3oz (w/o 4 Micro mounting screws) which is the exact same as my Fortis F1s (with 2 .1oz rail mounting screws and w/o the 4 micro screws).
Thanks, Jerry! We're really glad you like your Low Drag Mount.
I would guess that the box design would better withstand lateral forces over I-beam design of the F1 as well
You're absolutely right about lateral forces and the LDM's peripheral 4 pillar design; that's also where the highest torsional stresses develop. The bulk of the LDM's mass was concentrated at the bottom of the mount where the highest bending stresses happen due to leverage. We also minimized stress risers by using generous internal radii. All of this was validated incrementally using FEA (Finite Element Analysis) as the design & development process progressed.
How 'bout some 30mm and 1" lightweight QD scope mounts ScalarWorks? Kinda like Aero Precision's but with your detent QD mechanism. :D
It's our policy not to comment about future products, but let's just say we've only just begun...
You had LAV test these right?
For some reason that's in my head.
Scalarworks
11-08-14, 15:21
You had LAV test these right?
LAV contacted us shortly after we announced the release of the LDM/Micro, expressing interest in our mount. We were happy to send him a couple for evaluation, which he's had for a little over 2 weeks now.
He's posted several pics of the Low Drag Mount on one of his uppers (https://www.facebook.com/scalarworks/posts/302720526593371) and on one of his rifles (https://www.facebook.com/LarryVickers/photos/a.10153441800980416.1073741826.295755495415/10154738967545416/?type=1), as well as with his new Aimpoint Micro T-2 (https://www.facebook.com/scalarworks/posts/305584132973677) on his Facebook timeline.
Keep an eye on LAV's and Scalarwork's facebook pages for more updates.
Jerry, have you tried shooting with and without the T1 on your rifle? The T1 is a great little sight, but the ones I've looked through have a slight optical offset that is barely noticeable unless you hold it up against a long straight line like a wire between two telephone poles. It's not really an issue for the T1, except when you're cowitnessed with irons that are sighted to your dot. Everything works great until you remove the T1. That slight offset is no longer there and the result is your (or I should I say my) irons point at a different spot. It's been a while since I noticed it and just concluded that if my T1 battery went dead I would leave it on and shoot with irons (no change). My memory is that it was enough to miss a 100 yard target. Of course in the unlikely event the T1 glass breaks (it literally takes an explosion to do this right?) you will suffer the offset no matter what.
Since you have the QD mount and plan to use it I thought you would be in a great position to verify this for us (me) to see if you experience the same thing. Again, not criticizing the sight or the mount, they are great products, just want folks to be aware of the limitations since this is a SHTF kind of product.
jerrysimons
11-08-14, 16:37
The T1/H1 are proven products but I suppose the possibility of a slight POA shift due to paralax with zered irons viewed through the glass is there. I am interested to test the theory and curious what SMEs have to say about this phenomenon. As far as paralax goes I would be more concerned about shifting point of aim simply by viewing the dot all the way at the edge of the glass. On this front the T2 is supposed to be an improvement over the T1.
In any event you are dead in the water if your glass fogs without QD mounts and you can't see your irons, which is a common occurrence in various weather conditions like rain and/or tempurature fluctuations. You could zero your irons without RDS attached then zero the RDS separately but I am not sure it is a big enough problem to worry about. You got me thinking though. Now I want to test the POA shift in both ways, irons zeroed viewed through RDS then RDS removed, zeroed irons then with RDS attached: Measure POA/POI shift.
Scalarworks
11-08-14, 17:10
The T1 is a great little sight, but the ones I've looked through have a slight optical offset
All optical devices with a curved lens exhibit some optical distortion. Even a great quality reflex sight like the Aimpoint Micro does to a small degree.
That distortion will affect everything viewed through the sight, including your front sight and the target. So when you're zeroing your irons while looking through your red dot you're effectively doing so with the distortion pre-applied to both.
Assuming your red dot and irons are co-witnessed, any visual shift should be equal; if you remove your optic you will be eliminating the same amount of optical shift from both the target and your front sight post.
jerrysimons
11-08-14, 17:20
All optical devices with a curved lens exhibit some optical distortion. Even a great quality reflex sight like the Aimpoint Micro does to a small degree.
That distortion will affect everything viewed through the sight, including your front sight and the target. So when you're zeroing your irons while looking through your red dot you're effectively doing so with the distortion pre-applied to both.
Assuming your red dot and irons are co-witnessed, any visual shift should be equal; if you remove your optic you will be eliminating the same amount of optical shift from both the target and your front sight post.
What does this mean for zeroed irons? Since the target is also affected?
Looks really nice. Would like to see a low-pro model for use on 55x, FNC, mp5, and others requiring a lower mount. And I'll add my support for a 30 and 34mm line of one-piece optic mounts.
Assuming your red dot and irons are co-witnessed, any visual shift should be equal; if you remove your optic you will be eliminating the same amount of optical shift from both the target and your front sight post.
I wholeheartedly agree that in theory it should work this way. For some reason it didn't for me. Either because I'm crazy or some phenomenon we don't have a name for yet. It's almost as if it not only shifts the image and front sight but the perspective of the two, as if you had shifted your eye to the side but were still looking through the rear sight.
Jerry I can't wait to hear if you experience the same thing. I know it sounds strange so I'm dying to see if someone else can verify the behavior. I could try to take a picture but would need a pinhole in front of my lens to have a hope of getting everything in focus at once (rear sight, front sight, target). Maybe I'll give that a shot tomorrow when it's light out.
Okay Guys, I couldn't wait. I put my phone in a vise and positioned a long drill bit a couple feet in front of it so it aligns under a 1.5 inch black square target on my garage door 20 feet away. I made a nice little video bringing a T1 between the camera and drill bit and you could easily see the relationship shifting the position of the target but not the drill bit. Since I didn't feel like posting the video to YouTube I just grabbed some screen shots with and without the T1 and made a .jpg which is attached here. I didn't bother using something for a rear sight because the phone camera was rigidly mounted. The target appears to shift a little less than 3/4" which when extrapolated to 100 yards would be around 10 MOA. As Jerry stated, you could zero your irons without the T1 then install the T1 but that might be a little distracting using a cowitnessed sight that looks like it's not properly cowitnessed. Hope someone can verify this with live fire for us. 29542
I don't know if this is the same phenomenon, but one of the things I have always heard with red dots is that you can use them with both eyes open and the front lens cover closed so you aren't actually looking through the glass.
That part we all know works. So me and my brother tried it one day in the desert, but on a target about 175-200y away.
Our POI was about 10 feet to the right!
Back on topic. I bought one of the PA Arms Advanced Micro/Scalarworks Combos (old Larue mount and PA dot to go on a beater) and received it today. Was planning on testing the RTZ with my T1 at the range tomorrow but I was sent an absolute co-witness mount instead of the lower 1/3 I wanted.
The mount is really nice and the clicks of the knob were much firmer than I was expecting. I bet that low drag knob would work great to make screws on keymod accessories more QDish! You heard it here first! :)
I know some people, who for this distortion reasons prefer to put their rear sight in front of optical sight (Eotech in their case). This is also a reason why our military is requesting to put iron sights under optic (hollow channel in rail in wz.96/06 Beryl or high rail with see trough base in UKM-2000). They just do not believe in co-witness trough optic.
BTW I wonder if HK 28.5mm sights from HK416 would look under Micro using this Scalarworks mount.
Scalarworks
11-09-14, 07:43
The mount is really nice and the clicks of the knob were much firmer than I was expecting. I bet that low drag knob would work great to make screws on keymod accessories more QDish! You heard it here first! :)
Thanks for sharing your initial impressions, Tony. Glad you like it so far.
BTW I wonder if HK 28.5mm sights from HK416 would look under Micro using this Scalarworks mount.
The max height above rail of the pocket on the Scalarworks LDM110 (taller lower-third mount) is 21.46mm.
The problem with the over/under configuration is that either the irons, the optics, or both will have a compromised height to accommodate the other.
The problem with the over/under configuration is that either the irons, the optics, or both will have a compromised height to accommodate the other.
I know. But seems like on this side of the pond (at least in my neighborhood), we are not so focused on getting tight cheekweld on assault rifle with red dot sight. Actually some people say it is better not to have any cheekweld, when using gas mask.
Anyway, very nice mount :)
Scalarworks
11-09-14, 10:44
Anyway, very nice mount :)
Dziękuję :)
Have any of you guys had a chance to shoot irons with and without the T1 between them to confirm the point of aim change? From the picture I posted and comments from others it seems clear the effect is real. But how much is it exactly?
jerrysimons
11-23-14, 15:06
Have any of you guys had a chance to shoot irons with and without the T1 between them to confirm the point of aim change? From the picture I posted and comments from others it seems clear the effect is real. But how much is it exactly?
Anyway for the purposes of this thread it is remarkable that ScalarWorks has made such a lightweight QD T1 mount where QD is an important feature that has been lacking from other lightweight mounts. I think we should make a new thread about the issue of iron sight zero subject to parallax viewed through the rds optic, it would probably get more hits and it wouldn't be off topic in its own thread.
Good idea. Ideally we would get as many brands as possible involved and see if some are better than others.
broberts001
12-24-14, 14:18
Any more feedback on this mount ?
-Bryan
jerrysimons
01-24-15, 22:32
How can we get a replacement detent wheel with the torx center that LAV has posted? Thanks.
Scalarworks
01-25-15, 12:11
How can we get a replacement detent wheel with the torx center that LAV has posted? Thanks.
Shoot us an email with a copy of your invoice and shipping address and we'll send you one free of charge.
Alternatively post up a pic of a rifle with your LDM on it to @scalarworks (instagram or twitter) and DM or email us your shipping address.
Boba Fett v2
01-25-15, 12:40
I'd try one. Curious as to why they didn't have the ADM, Fortis, GG&G, DD, etc. micro mount specs listed on their page to compare though.
Scalarworks
01-25-15, 12:49
I'd try one. Curious as to why they didn't have the ADM or DD micro mount specs listed on their page to compare though.
Thanks. They'll be back in stock by the end of the month.
The DD isn't in the list because it isn't quick detach. We want to keep the comparison apples to apples; incidentally, that's also why we throw in whatever mounting screws each mount employs for the red dot as some have fully captured screws.
The ADM is an omission we're going to rectify soon.
But for the record, the LDM is still quite a bit lighter than the DD and the ADM.
Boba Fett v2
01-25-15, 12:51
Kewl. It will be a welcome addition to my already light-as-**** KAC Carbine.
Shoot us an email with a copy of your invoice and shipping address and we'll send you one free of charge.
Awesome! I love my LDM on my LW build.
I'm strongly considering picking up an LDM & selling my KAC micro mount. I'd shave 2 oz. and remove the interference between the KAC lever and my magnifier mount..... hmm:confused:
Scalarworks
02-04-15, 08:38
I'm strongly considering picking up an LDM & selling my KAC micro mount. I'd shave 2 oz. and remove the interference between the KAC lever and my magnifier mount..... hmm:confused:
Your timing couldn't be better. We just got LDMs back in stock. We also have some T-1 and H-1 bundles available at a great price.
I already have an H-1 and I just placed order #800.
Apparently I'm easily swayed by peer pressure.
Scalarworks
02-04-15, 21:01
I already have an H-1 and I just placed order #800.
Apparently I'm easily swayed by peer pressure.
You just know a good thing when you see it ;)
Thanks for your order; it'll ship out tomorrow.
This is the first time I have even seen/heard of this mount but it looks extremely nice! Add to the fact that some users are talking of dumping their KAC and Bobro mounts intrigues me. I own a Bobro and love it, but if this is just as sturdy, lighter, and (by the looks of it) utilizes fewer screws, I might have to save up for one soon!
FourT6and2
02-05-15, 10:08
I'll be grabbing a T1 Bundle from you (Scalaworks) in March for my birthday ha!
This is the first time I have even seen/heard of this mount but it looks extremely nice! Add to the fact that some users are talking of dumping their KAC and Bobro mounts intrigues me. I own a Bobro and love it, but if this is just as sturdy, lighter, and (by the looks of it) utilizes fewer screws, I might have to save up for one soon!
My Bobro is fantastic. The only reason I could imagine dumping it for this is weight savings. But I'll be sticking with the Bobro. If I ever decide to pick up another micro, well, that's a different story.
I'll be grabbing a T1 Bundle from you (Scalaworks) in March for my birthday ha!
My Bobro is fantastic. The only reason I could imagine dumping it for this is weight savings. But I'll be sticking with the Bobro. If I ever decide to pick up another micro, well, that's a different story.
FourT6and2 - Nice! Replacing the Bobro you have or is this for another build? I followed your other thread
mtdawg169 - Same here. Love how rock-solid my Bobro is and have never had an issue with it. You are right though, that is probably a better choice. No reason to fix what isn't broken! As a side note though, it is fantastic how mount manufacturers and distributors are selling package deals. Makes it easy to save a few $$.
FourT6and2
02-06-15, 00:35
I have two ARs. The Bobro mount is holding a 1-6x scope on one rifle. And I'm putting a T1 on the other. :)
Rayrevolver
02-06-15, 10:13
FYI - Primary Arms has bundles of these mounts with their own flavor "micro" red dots. I am thinking about getting one for a 22LR upper and doing a switcheroo to move the Scalarworks to my Aimpoint.
LDM Mount on my 14.5:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlw8zgd482el4dg/2015-02-08%2015.05.09.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0s89x3rbfs2fqo/2015-02-08%2015.05.41.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lic8ddiksndb8ki/2015-02-08%2015.08.38.jpg?dl=0
Sorry, I don't know how to insert images from dropbox. The mount is ludicrously light but very solid and the screw with the ball detent is quite clever, IMO. The zero does seem quite a bit drifted to the left from my previous KAC mount, just comparing through the irons. Hopefully I can get to the range soon.
Scalarworks
02-21-15, 09:27
For anyone curious about the Scalarworks Low Drag Mount's operation, please feel free to check out the video we produced.
It shows how to assemble, mount, and dismount the LDM/Micro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5UMTq6qd6c
I really like my LDM100. It has held zero through a few hundred rounds, and will go through a class next week.
http://i.imgur.com/ic3wce9.jpg
jerrysimons
02-28-15, 11:16
I received the revised Torx center thumb wheel, thanks for the hook up! What size allen is the tiny detent screw holding the thumb wheel in? What loctite do you recommend, if any?
Thanks!
Scalarworks
02-28-15, 12:17
I received the revised Torx center thumb wheel, thanks for the hook up! What size allen is the tiny detent screw holding the thumb wheel in? What loctite do you recommend, if any?
Thanks!
Our pleasure.
Hex size is 0.05". Recommended Loctite is the Purple 222MS or equivalent.
If you remove your aimpoint from the LDM/Micro you'll see that there is a hole in the base to more easily access the set screw.
We recommend you gently tighten the set screw until the thumbscrew can't be rotated by hand, and then back off the set screw a half a turn until the thumbscrew can be rotated again.
Give us a call or send us an email if you need any further assistance.
Scalarworks
02-28-15, 14:54
We've been getting more and more questions from HK shooters as to whether our mounts will work with their sub guns and rifles.
To help, we've put together a 1:1 scale PDF that you can print, cutout, and play around with.
It's on the product page under the documents tab (https://scalarworks.com/optic-mounts/ldm-micro/#x-content-band-12) of the Specifications section or through this direct link (https://scalarworks.com/media/optic_mounts/ldm-micro/LDM1XX_Cutouts.pdf).
Boba Fett v2
02-28-15, 16:10
For anyone curious about the Scalarworks Low Drag Mount's operation, please feel free to check out the video we produced.
It shows how to assemble, mount, and dismount the LDM/Micro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5UMTq6qd6c
I'm not really about fixing what ain't broke, but I really want to try this mount and run a repeatabilty test against my ADM.
Scalarworks
03-03-15, 17:27
I'm not really about fixing what ain't broke, but I really want to try this mount and run a repeatabilty test against my ADM.
We're working on a return to zero video. It's the number one question we get asked. Spoiler alert; it's great at it.
Scalarworks
03-10-15, 17:03
This is a bit belated but for anyone interested in 'dry fitting' the LDM/Micro we've put together a 1:1 scale PDF that you can print, cutout, and play around with.
Download it under the documents tab (https://scalarworks.com/optic-mounts/ldm-micro/#x-content-band-12).
FourT6and2
03-10-15, 17:20
This is a bit belated but for anyone interested in 'dry fitting' the LDM/Micro we've put together a 1:1 scale PDF that you can print, cutout, and play around with.
Download it under the documents tab (https://scalarworks.com/optic-mounts/ldm-micro/#x-content-band-12).
Smart.
I had to do this myself in Photoshop with internet pics when I bought my scope mount. It'd be great if more manufacturers started offering this sort of thing. Especially with cantilever mounts so you can see the real-world difference between the various models (like standard, extended, etc.).
Could be helpful to add profile views too.
Scalarworks
03-10-15, 17:24
Smart.
I had to do this myself in Photoshop with internet pics when I bought my scope mount. It'd be great if more manufacturers started offering this sort of thing. Especially with cantilever mounts so you can see the real-world difference between the various models (like standard, extended, etc.).
Could be helpful to add profile views too.
Thanks, that's a great suggestion. We'll add the side profile with the recoil lug exposed so you can see where it will actually end up on your rail.
We also have one for our Benelli M4 RMR mount (https://scalarworks.com/optic-mounts/bor-rmr/#x-content-band-14).
Scalarworks
03-17-15, 09:33
Mrgunsgear has his Aimpoint Micro T-2 review up which heavily features the Scalarworks Low Drag Mount.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2koExs6GuRQ
Scalarworks
03-30-15, 15:51
Sold out again but there are still some available at Primary Arms.
Back in stock on or before April 10th.
Thanks for keeping us updated! Any word on FDE mounts down the road?
Scalarworks
03-30-15, 16:43
Thanks for keeping us updated! Any word on FDE mounts down the road?
That's a definite possibility in the future. But our immediate focus is developing more products.
Scalarworks
06-01-15, 19:20
Our much anticipated Low Drag Mount Zero-Hold video is live!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCDCS0zYKZQ&feature=youtu.be
Please Share it and leave a comment if you have any questions.
FourT6and2
06-01-15, 19:39
Tasty.
Can't wait to try it out. Just got an email that mine is in the mail :)
FourT6and2
06-04-15, 11:35
Got it yesterday. It's pretty baller. Solid piece of work, Scalarworks! Any change you're also working on scope mounts too? Your system could possibly work with two of the wheel/clamps and prove to be lower in profile than typical lever systems. And your machining is top notch.
StainlessSlide
06-04-15, 13:15
It's great to hear a narration that sounds like an actual engineer. But aren't sighting systems more of a vector problem :)?
Seriously, it looks to me like the red dot was stable within about 1/8 diameter. Do you have an estimate of the apparent dot subtension in your images?
Scalarworks
06-04-15, 13:29
Got it yesterday. It's pretty baller. Solid piece of work, Scalarworks! Any change you're also working on scope mounts too? Your system could possibly work with two of the wheel/clamps and prove to be lower in profile than typical lever systems. And your machining is top notch.
Thanks very much. Glad to hear you're happy with your mount.
We have several types of optic mounts in various stages of development; some entering production. We hope to start releasing them by fall.
Thanks again.
Scalarworks
06-04-15, 13:32
It's great to hear a narration that sounds like an actual engineer. But aren't sighting systems more of a vector problem :)?
Seriously, it looks to me like the red dot was stable within about 1/8 diameter. Do you have an estimate of the apparent dot subtension in your images?
lol. Yes they are, but we like to think of our products as being holistically better ;-)
Due to the gopro sensor's limitations and the compression automatically applied to the footage it's hard to get any reliable figures from a visual analysis alone. Not to mention any instability from the vice, Picatinny vice block, and bench that we simply had to accept for the purposes of the video.
We're in the process of designing and building a laboratory rig to spatially measure the deviation of the mount to a high degree of accuracy. No ETA on that yet, but we'll post up the figures when we have them.
Thanks.
Rockin' it on my 3gn rifle...definitely do dig!
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_8125_1.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/IMG_8125_1.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/2015-04-14_10-57-16.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/2015-04-14_10-57-16.jpg.html)
Just got mine in the mail today and installed it... Very good design, super impressive.
firefighter37
06-06-15, 00:17
Never heard about this mount before, but I like what I see. Even more important to me is the RMR mount for the Benelli M4. I couldn't have thought of a better design
Boba Fett v2
06-06-15, 09:04
I'll be picking one up myself soon enough.
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