View Full Version : Opinions wanted RE: Att home invasion
M1A2_Tanker
06-23-08, 23:00
Thursday night about 3 A.M. In one of my usual pain induced insomnia attacks, I was leaning over the back of the couch in the dark watching the lighting show roll in, flashlight in hand. I watched as 2 men in their mid 20's walked around the corner, past my driveway, up through my front yard. Then they split up. 1 went towards my front steps the other looked as if he was gonna head to my back door. Both crouched down like ninja's. 1 circled my truck headed for the back. My first thought was ''Get your gun''. But it was in my bedroom on the other side of the house. So instead I decided to stand up in front of the window and and plaster one of them my 3watt LED 3 d-cell maglight, and yelled '' WTF do you want!'' (I know what was i thinking!). The guy I lit up seemed like he froze forever scared shitless. They both then ran off like lightning bolts, So I let my dogs out after them. The dogs chased them far off into the woods. Called the local Sherrif and what do you know, They never showed up, never called me back. I called them saterday to find out what happened, I was told they picked someone up that night. I told them i would be able to identify them, they then said ''oh that isnt neccesary''. And left it like that, THE END. This sounds far longer than it actually happened, It was maybe 45 seconds at the most. I worried about them getting in before i could get to my cell or my gun both of which were in my bedroom. (I dont have a land line)
I had 1 kid sleeping on the other couch and the other two in their bedroom, across from the back door. I live in a town of 1500, No police only county sherrif. Theres usually only 1 on duty at night. SD is across town about 5 miles away.
So i have 2 Questions,
1st What would you have done? And provide CONSTRUCTIVE criticism on my untrained actions.
2nd Is this how LE normally react to this sort of thing? How can the guy they picked up be charged if They dont want a statement/Identification ect.
Finally ask questions if you want more info, and please excuse my grammer :D
Thanks, Tanker
ETA: Not LE bashing either,The SD here do a fine job and are pretty busy with the Methhead !@#$$%^&&**, just looking for advice on how to handle this. I did read the post on LE Bashing.
I think you will be safe .after that those two might re-think coming near your house .with your light blasting at them ,They probally thought "he has a gun and we are dead."and the dog! please tell me its a big one!!!!!:D that is a sight ,I would of cried over that.Now you made a call about it make sure the sheriff is aware ,then next time you Know what makes the grass grow????
BLOOD! BRIGHT RED BLOOD! Got that from FT Knox
Tankers lead the way!!
M1A2_Tanker
06-23-08, 23:26
I think you will be safe .after that those two might re-think coming near your house .with your light blasting at them ,They probally thought "he has a gun and we are dead."and the dog! please tell me its a big one!!!!!:D that is a sight ,I would of cried over that.Now you made a call about it make sure the sheriff is aware ,then next time you Know what makes the grass grow????
BLOOD! BRIGHT RED BLOOD! Got that from FT Knox
Tankers lead the way!!
Death before dismount!
DOGS 2, 1 black lab and 1 yellow lab, I forgot to write that as they ran off I yelled ''Come back again and I'll shoot your asses!''
I think you will be safe .after that those two might re-think coming near your house .with your light blasting at them ,They probally thought "he has a gun and we are dead."and the dog! please tell me its a big one!!!!!:D that is a sight ,I would of cried over that.Now you made a call about it make sure the sheriff is aware ,then next time you Know what makes the grass grow????
BLOOD! BRIGHT RED BLOOD! Got that from FT Knox
Tankers lead the way!!
Wow, what have we been drinking tonight? :confused:
Anyway, I completely agree that the police response was way wrong. You need to call whoever is above these folks and ask some serious questions since they are so content to do nothing to serve and protect you as they are sworn to do.
Not LEO bashing by any means. I am sure that many LEO's here would agree that the response was inappropriate at best if described correctly.
First, I don't know what the laws are where you live. What crime was committed? They did not enter your home, steal anything or do damage. Being on your property, you could have them "tresspassed", then it would be tresspassing if they returned. You may well have thwarted a burglary, but with out anymore than the suspects suspicious behavior, there really is no crime committed.
Second, hind sight is always 20/20. What you did seems to have worked. If there is a next time, remember: CALL 911. Why? Cover your bases. If you can, stay on line with the operator (assuming someone is forcing entry into your home). It is recorded. It is not your fault that you live in the "sticks" and there is only 1 deputy on at night (he should always have a back available). Check your local laws. You should be justified to use lethal force to defend your home. This means some one entering, not shooting them in the back as they flee you and your AR15. Staying online with 911 is useful for the investigation and WHEN you get sued by the poor guys family after shooting him. It would document your actions.."they are kicking the door...'I am armed, I will shoot if you enter'....the door is breaking". You get the point.
Lastly, have a plan. Run the scenarios of "what if's" through your head and have a planned response. Just remember, lethal force is justified to defend life, not property. With that in mind, especially living in such a rural area, investigate those bumps in the night with the firearm you see best fit for your situation (handgun, shotgun or carbine) and a good light source. Always have someone there prepared to dial 911 if needed (or have your cell on you).
One more thing...get to know the deputies. Hell, chances are they are ex-Army or former military and have a love of guns too. They could give you advice and inform you of local laws. You may make a friend and make it a more personal thing to check on your property routinely. OR- maybe your deputies are Barny Fife and Roscoe P. Coltrain....worthless. I don't know. It's worth looking into.
First, I don't know what the laws are where you live. What crime was committed?
He called 911 (I assume) to report potential intruders acting very suspiciously that he then had to scare away. At what point in time did it become OK for LEO's to not show up at the man's home afterwards under those exact circumstances? You know, maybe just to make sure everything is alright? Take a report, perhaps?
Elementary stuff here, come on now.
M1A2_Tanker
06-24-08, 00:05
I was transplanted to Arkansas by my In-Laws after i got out of the army. (Colorado will always be home..sniffles)
I do know that AR has a ''Stand your ground'' law aswell as immunity from Civil prosecution, should such a thing occur. But I think you are right, educating myself on these laws is a great idea, as is getting to know my local LE. I've been one to think that if the local LE doesnt know my name or who I am than I'm GTG and i'm not in any trouble :D
He called 911 (I assume) to report potential intruders acting very suspiciously that he then had to scare away
This is correct, I remained outside on the porch waiting for an Officer till about 12 P.M. (minus coffee, bathroom, ect.)
He called 911 (I assume) to report potential intruders acting very suspiciously that he then had to scare away. At what point in time did it become OK for LEO's to not show up at the man's home afterwards under those exact circumstances? You know, maybe just to make sure everything is alright? Take a report, perhaps?
Elementary stuff here, come on now.
Don't know, wasn't there. Not my style. Did he request contact afterword? Some don't. In a priority system, things no longer in progress take a back seat to things that are in progress, IE, they left. Granted, I work in a very busy urban area were a "suspicous circumstance" call may wait for hours as bad accidents, stabbings, domestic violence, robberies etc. will comsume our time. Still, unless noted by dispatch (no contact), I will always follow up and at least explain why it took so long, give advice (as noted above) and assure them if they are enangered (in progress) everyone who can will drop what they are doing and respond. And, no, it is not OK for LE to not show on a call for service.
BTW, I did graduate Elemetary School, barely :p .
Face_N_The_Crowd
06-24-08, 00:54
Alls well that ends well - right?
100% on knowledge of the law.
Just some thoughts and not trying to Monday morning QB. This is the plan that is in effect when I am home. When not then it's a little different. I always ensure that there is a good flashlight nearby before we go to bed.
1. Snatch my kid from his room and bring him into our room which is the safe room. If we are in the family room and something happens, same drill.
2. If it appears that something is happening we call 911 and report a suspicious activity/ person after having retrieved my weapon and telling 911 dispatch that I am armed.
3. Sit quietly and listen/ observe and report any developments to 911. I do not hang up the phone until I am satisfied that the situation is resolved.
Having said all that some states do allow a person to protect his home/ property and I would research the laws for my area to know beforehand. Also be able to articulate what actions you took and why you felt that they were necessary. That will go a long way in adding credibility to your statement should something happen.
There is a neighborhood not far from here, that has been having such a long term and on going burglary and home invasion problem with professional and armed burlgars who also have technical proficiency to defeat central station alarms that the village itself has now hired two recently retired LEO's.
The local police have been completlely ineffective. The village provided the guards with an SUV to work 12 hr. shifts 7 nights a week for burglary suppression. It has not made any difference, the problem persists...
Detective_D
06-24-08, 07:31
I was transplanted to Arkansas by my In-Laws after i got out of the army.
I am with Oscar on this one. I am an officer here in Arkansas and from what you have said, no state law was broken. But if they did find someone, they might have had warrants, or could have been tied in with a car break in down the road. Both circumstances would not require contact with you as a victim.
As far as your response to the situation, This is why I keep guns all over my house. My wife's .380 is on top of the entertainment center. My service weapon is on the fridge. My baby glock is on my dresser upstairs. And my AR is mounted on my closet wall just inside the door. All guns are out of reach of the kids but still readily available. I will not knock you for your response to the situation, but I also agree with Iraqgunz. Grab your kids, get them to a place of safety, get in a tactically advantageous position and protect your family. That being said, they were "PROBABLY" not going to break into your house at that time of night. That is a peak time for car break ins and such, but it never hurts to have a plan for each scenario that you could think of.
Why call 911, the police are more restricted to correct the problem than, the home owner. So the police arrive and arrest two men walking around your home, What do they have a trespass charge. Those men will out of jail very shortly. Now if those men break into your home they will never make that mistake again.
How long did you wait to call the SD after you let the dogs out after the two guys? Did you report their last known direction of travel?
Perhaps the deputy (ies) were actually out there checking the surrounding area (in the area where the guys were running towards) but were not in your line of sight? Or the one deputy (or two?) for your jurisdiction could have been re-routed to another "hotter" call while enroute to your area...
Dispatch may have told the deps that the caller did not request to be seen (pretty typical for "suspicious" calls, especially when no crime has been committed and/or the caller only wants the area "checked").
It sounds like there's a good chance that one of those two guys got picked up for something criminal that evening. Maybe there was another B&E where he got caught red handed? Hence the SD/prosecutors would not need you to identify the suspect. Also, dispatch isn't obligated to call back in the above scenario - unless they said they were going to call back (?).
As Oscar 319 mentioned, no crime (per se) actually took place - other than trespassing (and you have to usually give them notice, allow them a chance to leave, and only then can it be enforced/arrests can be made for subsequent violations, etc).
It's good that you "caught them" and scared them away before they were actually able to do anything criminal in nature (B&E, MDOP, etc, etc).
As far as constructive criticism - keep a firearm and a phone on you or near you as often as possible IMHO. Protect your family and get to know your neighbors so you can look out for one another. Having neighbors that watch out for one another's houses/vehicles/property thwarts many criminal acts.
I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the situation - if you want to find out what really happened with the guy who they caught, go down to the records dept of the SD and request some information via FOIA for all arrests during that particular timeframe during the evening when that stuff took place.
Littlelebowski
06-24-08, 08:19
What kind of dogs?
Detective_D
06-24-08, 08:20
DOGS 2, 1 black lab and 1 yellow lab, I forgot to write that as they ran off I yelled ''Come back again and I'll shoot your asses!''
There ya go
KintlaLake
06-24-08, 08:24
If I see two strangers, behaving as you described, that close to my house at 3am, I consider them a threat.
I mean, they're not taking measurements for vinyl siding. :rolleyes: There have been nighttime home invasions within two miles of our home, so...
1a: I'd trigger our security system's "panic" alarm, either via a keypad or via the fob that's always with me.
1b: I'd use my cell-phone, which is always with me, to call 911 and describe the situation to dispatch. I'd stay on the line while I...
2a: ...loudly call out our family's predetermined voice-code for "intruder" as I scoop up the spawns and retreat to our designated "safe room," where I'd...
2b: ...meet my wife, who's already seen that a panic has been triggered and has armed herself. Before attempting to enter the safe room, I'd call out a predetermined voice-code to let her know that I'm not bringing an intruder with me.
3a: Once we're all in the safe room, I'd arm myself and the family would hunker down.
3b: We'd stay on the line with 911, keeping dispatch apprised of our location and condition until LE arrives and clears us to leave the safe room.
That's our plan, which would be equally effective without a whiz-bang security system. ;) Security first, survival second, armed defense as a last resort.
YMMV.
You call 911 because instinct says that they are goblins, but you need to protect yourself against criminal and civil repercussions.By calling the police you demonstrate that you acted responsibly and acted as a prudent person in your situation would have.
Why call 911, the police are more restricted to correct the problem than, the home owner. So the police arrive and arrest two men walking around your home, What do they have a trespass charge. Those men will out of jail very shortly. Now if those men break into your home they will never make that mistake again.
Jay Cunningham
06-24-08, 09:06
Seeking any kind of legal advice on the internet is never a good idea - I know that you did not seek it per se but that is what you are going to wind up getting.
I would advise contacting an attorney for any legal questions that you may have.
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